OT: Alonso to Madrid and repercussions
Jussi Uosukainen
So, if Alonso is sold to Madrid for silly money (ￜ25mil+), what do we
do for replacement? Here are some possibilities, considering that
finding a similar player to Alonso (deeplying playmaker) is almost
impossible, as thee are very few players of sufficient quality even
capable of playing the position: Carrick, Xavi, Pirlo, Barry and
Cambiasso (the last two only to some extent), maybe Essien.
One option would be to get either an attacking midfielder and move
Gerrard back to the Alonso role, where he played until 2004. Possible
targets: VdV, Sneijder, Silva.
Another would be to get a more traditional DM to replace Alonso, but
there are precious few available at all.
I dread that we will end up seeing Lucas in the first team, and big
changes need to happen before that will end well...
--
/jussi
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
* Frank Zappa
Google Beta User
> So, if Alonso is sold to Madrid for silly money (£25mil+), what do we
> do for replacement?
(why ot?)
Nothing immediately.
Hold onto our horses.
Still go in for the attacking left-sided midfielder we need, and a
veteran striker up front IF Nemeth and Ngog don't look good in the pre-
season (like RVN).
I'm assuming no way in hell are BOTH Masch and Alonso leaving so, just
start Mascherano and Leiva.
If injury occurs, blood Spearing or withdraw Gerrard next to Masch in
a 4-4-2.
> I dread that we will end up seeing Lucas in the first team, and big
> changes need to happen before that will end well...
That's fine if Masch and Gerrard are both on the pitch.
Should be enough.
Might have problems against the better teams (say Everton/Villa level
and above).
I don't want us to just sign the first Alonso like player.
Keep the money for a signing in the transfer break if necessary, or
for tying Mascherano to a long term deal. Masch makes 30k, triple it.
Jesper N�hr Andersen
> do for replacement? Here are some possibilities, considering that
> finding a similar player to Alonso (deeplying playmaker) is almost
> impossible, as thee are very few players of sufficient quality even
> capable of playing the position: Carrick, Xavi, Pirlo, Barry and
> Cambiasso (the last two only to some extent), maybe Essien.
>
> One option would be to get either an attacking midfielder and move
> Gerrard back to the Alonso role, where he played until 2004. Possible
> targets: VdV, Sneijder, Silva.
>
> Another would be to get a more traditional DM to replace Alonso, but
> there are precious few available at all.
>
> I dread that we will end up seeing Lucas in the first team, and big
> changes need to happen before that will end well...
It could very well be a no win situation for Liverpool. Alonso clearly wants
to move to Madrid, and if Liverpool forces him to stay, you might end up
with an unhappy player.
Rafa needs to decide if he sees Lucas as part of the future. If so, play
him. If not, sell him. He is not full on replacement for Alonso yet, but if
he never gets a chance to improve in the first team, he never will be.
Anyway, you'll still need to buy a midfielder. Van der Vaart would be the
best buy for Liverpool, I think. He is pretty good all round. Sneijder is
one of my favourite players and he'll be a good buy for any club, but I
think he's a bit too injury prone. Deadly from set pieces and crosses well.
Silva has great technique, but might lack a bit physically for the prem.
I'd go for Van der Vaart.
Jussi Uosukainen
> On Jun 30, 4:46ï¿œpm, Jussi Uosukainen <j...@iki.fi> wrote:
>> So, if Alonso is sold to Madrid for silly money (ￜ25mil+), what do we
>> do for replacement?
>
> (why ot?)
>
football, so the post as OT.
> Nothing immediately.
>
> Hold onto our horses.
>
> Still go in for the attacking left-sided midfielder we need, and a
> veteran striker up front IF Nemeth and Ngog don't look good in the pre-
> season (like RVN).
>
with that...
> I'm assuming no way in hell are BOTH Masch and Alonso leaving so, just
> start Mascherano and Leiva.
>
Do you feel Lucas is fit to start for a team looking to win the EPL? I
really don't, at the moment.
> If injury occurs, blood Spearing or withdraw Gerrard next to Masch in
> a 4-4-2.
>
The kids aren't allright. We cannot expect a kid to do even Lucas' role,
since they have not been tested at all last season. Same goes for Nemeth
and NGog, I just don't think theyre good enough.
>
>> I dread that we will end up seeing Lucas in the first team, and big
>> changes need to happen before that will end well...
>
> That's fine if Masch and Gerrard are both on the pitch.
>
Didn't work too well last season.
> Should be enough.
>
> Might have problems against the better teams (say Everton/Villa level
> and above).
>
> I don't want us to just sign the first Alonso like player.
>
This is why I would hae liked us to go for Barry if the team knew that
Alonso is leaving. He would have been dependable, at least.
> Keep the money for a signing in the transfer break if necessary, or
> for tying Mascherano to a long term deal. Masch makes 30k, triple it.
That needs to be done, ASAP.
--
/jussi
- It's 106 miles to Chicago. We've got a full tank of gas, half
a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.
- Hit it.
* The Blues Brothers
Ren
"Jussi Uosukainen" <ju...@iki.fi> wrote in message
news:4a4a798d$0$6269$7b1e...@news.nbl.fi...
>
> So, if Alonso is sold to Madrid for silly money (�25mil+), what do we
> do for replacement? Here are some possibilities, considering that
> finding a similar player to Alonso (deeplying playmaker) is almost
> impossible, as thee are very few players of sufficient quality even
> capable of playing the position: Carrick, Xavi, Pirlo, Barry and
> Cambiasso (the last two only to some extent), maybe Essien.
>
> One option would be to get either an attacking midfielder and move
> Gerrard back to the Alonso role, where he played until 2004. Possible
> targets: VdV, Sneijder, Silva.
>
> Another would be to get a more traditional DM to replace Alonso, but
> there are precious few available at all.
>
> I dread that we will end up seeing Lucas in the first team, and big
> changes need to happen before that will end well...
>
What would be up with signing Cristian Ledesma from Lazzio? Should get a
work permit and wouldn't cost the earth.
Ren
MH
Jussi Uosukainen wrote:
> So, if Alonso is sold to Madrid for silly money (ￜ25mil+), what do we
> do for replacement?
How likely is this ? Why do Real even want him (I like him, but don't
see where he fits in with them).
However, if he does go, the rumoured Liverpool target Javi Martinez
might be a good replacement. Also if Madrid keep on signing people, you
could get a few players off them for cheap, perhaps - like M. Diarra and
van der Vaart or Sneijder, for instance.
Abubakr
> > do for replacement?
>
> How likely is this ? Why do Real even want him (I like him, but don't
> see where he fits in with them).
As a deep-lying playmaker to complement a holding man like Diarra or
Gago.
Mark V.
Isn't Gago more of a deep-lying playmaker himself?
Abubakr
Supposed to be, I guess, but his playmaking leaves something to be
desired ( read: he ain't no Redondo!). Besides, they might just want
some depth there.
Jussi Uosukainen
>> > do for replacement?
>>
>> How likely is this ? Why do Real even want him (I like him, but don't
>> see where he fits in with them).
>
> As a deep-lying playmaker to complement a holding man like Diarra or
> Gago.
To replace Gago, more likely. If Alonso goes, it would mean he would
play with Lass, and Gago, MDiarra and Guti would be fighting for scraps.
--
/jussi
It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point
out that the emperor has no clothes. But the half-wit remains a
half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.
* The Sandman
MH
Jussi Uosukainen wrote:
> Abubakr <delta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jul 1, 9:57 am, MH <nos...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>Jussi Uosukainen wrote:
>>>
>>>>So, if Alonso is sold to Madrid for silly money (ￜ25mil+), what do we
>>>>do for replacement?
>>>
>>>How likely is this ? Why do Real even want him (I like him, but don't
>>>see where he fits in with them).
>>
>>As a deep-lying playmaker to complement a holding man like Diarra or
>>Gago.
>
>
> To replace Gago, more likely. If Alonso goes, it would mean he would
> play with Lass, and Gago, MDiarra and Guti would be fighting for scraps.
I still don't see the logic. They play with a back 4, so only 6 places
are left, 3 of which are certainly occupied (on the drawing board, at
least) by Kaka, Ronaldo and Benzema. Add in Raul, still a bit of a
sacred cow, and you are down to two places left - one of which will be
either Diarra or Gago, I would assume. Is Alonso the right player for
that one remaining spot, given how little defensive skill the front four
have, and given Ramos and Marcelinho's propensity for bombing forward at
every opportunity. If they also buy Ribery, I really don't see how
all the pieces can fit in .
>
Abubakr
>
> >>On Jul 1, 9:57 am, MH <nos...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>
> >>>Jussi Uosukainen wrote:
>
> >>>>do for replacement?
>
> >>>How likely is this ? Why do Real even want him (I like him, but don't
> >>>see where he fits in with them).
>
> >>As a deep-lying playmaker to complement a holding man like Diarra or
> >>Gago.
>
> > To replace Gago, more likely. If Alonso goes, it would mean he would
> > play with Lass, and Gago, MDiarra and Guti would be fighting for scraps.
>
> I still don't see the logic. They play with a back 4, so only 6 places
> are left, 3 of which are certainly occupied (on the drawing board, at
> least) by Kaka, Ronaldo and Benzema. Add in Raul, still a bit of a
> sacred cow, and you are down to two places left - one of which will be
> either Diarra or Gago, I would assume. Is Alonso the right player for
> that one remaining spot, given how little defensive skill the front four
> have, and given Ramos and Marcelinho's propensity for bombing forward at
> every opportunity. If they also buy Ribery, I really don't see how
> all the pieces can fit in .
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Playing two purely defensive midfielders in the middle of the park is
bad for any team. You need at least one player in there who has some
range in his passing otherwise they could be forced to go backwards a
lot.
Alonso has the passing ability but he is rather one-dimensional in the
sense that he has passing but not much more, can't hold the ball with
distinction nor dribble past players.
MH
Abubakr wrote:
>
>
> Playing two purely defensive midfielders in the middle of the park is
> bad for any team.
But it has been used with success in the past by a number of teams like
Juventus, Chelsea, Arsenal, France (1998-2000), Brazil (2002), Portugal,
Valencia though we can quibble about how well some members of those
midfield duos actually did pass and do other things (Vieira, Deschamps,
Baraja, Kleberson/Gilberto Silva, Maniche etc).
However, neither Lassana Diarra nor Gago is THAT bad distributing the ball.
JK
>
>
> Abubakr wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Playing two purely defensive midfielders in the middle of the park is
>> bad for any team.
>
> But it has been used with success in the past by a number of teams like
> Juventus, Chelsea, Arsenal, France (1998-2000), Brazil (2002),
Brazil 94 I think too, with Dunga and Mauro Silva, though I'm not sure
of where exactly everyone technically played.
Abubakr
Dunga was the distributer and Mauro Silva the destroyer. Dunga was
similar style of player to Alonso in many ways. Good range of passing
and a terrific shot. Qualities that the purely defensive folk like
Mauro Silva and Makelele lack, though the latter was quite good on the
ball.
Abubakr
> Abubakr wrote:
>
> > Playing two purely defensive midfielders in the middle of the park is
> > bad for any team.
>
> But it has been used with success in the past by a number of teams like
> Juventus, Chelsea, Arsenal, France (1998-2000), Brazil (2002), Portugal,
> Valencia though we can quibble about how well some members of those
> midfield duos actually did pass and do other things (Vieira, Deschamps,
> Baraja, Kleberson/Gilberto Silva, Maniche etc).
We don't need to quibble since it's obvious that at least one those
players was more than a stopper in midfielder.
> However, neither Lassana Diarra nor Gago is THAT bad distributing the ball.
Perhaps not but obviously RM are not totally satisfied with Gago's
play.
Google Beta User
> > > But it has been used with success in the past by a number of teams like
> > > Juventus, Chelsea, Arsenal, France (1998-2000), Brazil (2002),
>
> > Brazil 94 I think too, with Dunga and Mauro Silva, though I'm not sure
> > of where exactly everyone technically played.
>
> Dunga was the distributer and Mauro Silva the destroyer. Dunga was
> similar style of player to Alonso in many ways.
Really?
Benny
> From : wany...@gmail.com
>>>> But it has been used with success in the past by a number of teams
like
>>>> Juventus, Chelsea, Arsenal, France (1998-2000), Brazil (2002),
>>> Brazil 94 I think too, with Dunga and Mauro Silva, though I'm not sure
>>> of where exactly everyone technically played.
>> Dunga was the distributer and Mauro Silva the destroyer. Dunga was
>> similar style of player to Alonso in many ways.
>
> Really?
No. He was a DM. Just because he could actually pass the ball more then
10 yards when he had to, unlike Makelele, doesn't change that. He was a
dirty player. Very good at his job. Deschamps level.
--
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Abubakr
Yes. Watch the games from 94 (And even 90) and see how much of the
forward movement goes through Dunga. He usually had a more sedate role
for Brazi, playing deeper and staying put, than with Fiorentina where
he would occasionally pop-up to near the goal area for pot shots at
goal.
And his range of passing was much more than "more than 10 yards when
he had to, unlike Makalele". I don't see anything in Alonso's passing
that Dunga was not able to do just as easily.
Enzo
>
> >>On Jul 1, 9:57 am, MH <nos...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>
> >>>Jussi Uosukainen wrote:
>
> >>>>do for replacement?
>
> >>>How likely is this ? Why do Real even want him (I like him, but don't
> >>>see where he fits in with them).
>
> >>As a deep-lying playmaker to complement a holding man like Diarra or
> >>Gago.
>
> > To replace Gago, more likely. If Alonso goes, it would mean he would
> > play with Lass, and Gago, MDiarra and Guti would be fighting for scraps.
>
> I still don't see the logic. They play with a back 4, so only 6 places
> are left, 3 of which are certainly occupied (on the drawing board, at
> least) by Kaka, Ronaldo and Benzema. Add in Raul, still a bit of a
> sacred cow, and you are down to two places left - one of which will be
> either Diarra or Gago, I would assume. Is Alonso the right player for
> that one remaining spot, given how little defensive skill the front four
> have, and given Ramos and Marcelinho's propensity for bombing forward at
> every opportunity. If they also buy Ribery, I really don't see how
> all the pieces can fit in .
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Kaka, Ronaldo, Benzema and Higuaín, not Raúl.
Of course I dont like Alonso, but he is being seen as a straight
replacement for Gago, who has not yet established his credentials
despite plenty of starts. A midfielder who scores 1 goal in 71
matches is not RM material. He had previously scored 1 goal
in 70 matches for Boca. For the national team, he has a grand
total of zero goals in 49 starts at all levels.
MH
Abubakr wrote:
> On 3 July, 01:55, MH <nos...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>
>>Abubakr wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Playing two purely defensive midfielders in the middle of the park is
>>>bad for any team.
>>
>>But it has been used with success in the past by a number of teams like
>>Juventus, Chelsea, Arsenal, France (1998-2000), Brazil (2002), Portugal,
>>Valencia though we can quibble about how well some members of those
>>midfield duos actually did pass and do other things (Vieira, Deschamps,
>>Baraja, Kleberson/Gilberto Silva, Maniche etc).
>
>
> We don't need to quibble since it's obvious that at least one those
> players was more than a stopper in midfielder.
What about Real themselves, winning the league when often playing
Emerson and Diarra in central midfield ? There ARE coaches that like
this system (Mourinho and Capello being two of them) and it is
succesful for them.
Abubakr
> Abubakr wrote:
> > On 3 July, 01:55, MH <nos...@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>
> >>Abubakr wrote:
>
> >>>Playing two purely defensive midfielders in the middle of the park is
> >>>bad for any team.
>
> >>But it has been used with success in the past by a number of teams like
> >>Juventus, Chelsea, Arsenal, France (1998-2000), Brazil (2002), Portugal,
> >>Valencia though we can quibble about how well some members of those
> >>midfield duos actually did pass and do other things (Vieira, Deschamps,
> >>Baraja, Kleberson/Gilberto Silva, Maniche etc).
>
> > We don't need to quibble since it's obvious that at least one those
> > players was more than a stopper in midfielder.
>
> What about Real themselves, winning the league when often playing
> Emerson and Diarra in central midfield ? There ARE coaches that like
> this system (Mourinho and Capello being two of them) and it is
> succesful for them.
During Capello's tenure Guti was employed a lot more. And he tends to
play deep, so they were able to play two defensive guys around him at
times.
Capello had Lampard at Chelsea. He never played in trequartista
position but deeper. At Inter, Cambiasso when has his shakles taken
off him, is a capable playmaker and passer. But Inter struggle badly
to create when he's asked to do predominantly defensive duties. Take
their clash with Man Utd for example. In the first leg first half he
was playing almost as a third stopper but when he was let loose to
create they got back into the game in the second half.
I'm not saying this is set in stone. However it makes a lot of sense
to have a player deep in midfield who is able to get the ball moving
fast towards the attackers when it is called for.