??? on the Backstory of Tonya Harding: 1986-90
ICE LUNG
competitions:
In '86 she placed 6th
in '87 5th
in '88 5th
in '89 3rd
The question I'm wondering is why did it take her until '91 to get her act
together? What types of jumps was Harding doing in '86-'89? Triple Lutz?
Flip? Triple-Triples? Can anyone provide some details into those years of her
skating?. A 6th place showing is pretty damn good considering it was 1986 and
her first nationals, way before Yamaguchi's and Kerrigan's time. Why wasn't
Tonya a force to be reckoned with in '88, seemed this girl was always at the
brink of greatness. She was so much ahead in progress versus Kristi and Nancy,
what the hell happened?
ICE LUNG
1986 Nationals
1. Debi Thomas [-/-/1]
2. Caryn Kadavy [-/-/2]
3. Tiffany Chin [-/-/3]
4. Tracey Damigella [-/-/4]
5. Jill Trenary [-/-/5]
6. Tonya Harding [-/-/6]
7. Yvonne Gomez [-/-/7]
8. Kelly Ann Szmurlo [-/-/9]
9. Leslie Sikes [-/-/10]
10. Holly Cook [-/-/8]
11. Tracey Seliga [-/-/14]
12. Kathryn Adams [-/-/11]
13. Debbie Tucker [-/-/12]
14. Kimberly Drenser [-/-/13]
15. Kris Morzinski [-/-/-15]
16. Debbie LaVerde [-/-/16]
WDR Debbie Walls
1987 Nationals
1. Jill Trenary [2/2/1] 2. Debi Thomas [1/1/2] 3. Caryn Kadavy [3/9/3]
4. Tiffany Chin [4/3/5] 5. Tonya Harding [8/7/4] 6. Cindy Bortz [9/4/6]
7. Tracey Damigella [5/8/7] 8. Holly Cook [7/5/9] 9. Kathryn Adams [6/13/11]
10. Yvonne Gomez [11/11/10]11. Julie Wassermann [12/6/12]
12. E. Rory Flack [19/10/8]13. Kelly Ann Szmurlo [10/14/15]
14. Carrie Weber [17/12/13]15. Elisa Scheuermann [15/15/14]
16. Dawn Victorson [13/20/17]17. Lily Lee [18/18/16]
18. Danielle-Alyse Babaian [16/19/18]19. Joan Colignon [14/17/20]
20. Micki McMahon [20/16/19]
1988 Nationals
1. Debi Thomas [1/1/1] 2. Jill Trenary [3/3/2] 3. Caryn Kadavy [2/2/3]
4. Jeri Campbell [4/4/5] 5. Tonya Harding [8/9/4] 6. Holly Cook [7/6/6]
7. Cindy Bortz [6/5/7] 8. Tracey Damigella [5/8/13]
9. Kelly Ann Szmurlo [9/12/10]10. Kristi Yamaguchi [13/13/8]
11. Tonia Kwiatkowski [14/7/-]12. Nancy Kerrigan [18/10/9]
13. Lisa Cornelius [11/14/-]14. Julie Wassermann [10/17-]
15. E. Rory Flack [19/11/-]16. Kathaleen Kelly [12/18/-]
17. Tracie Brown [15/19/-]18. Elisa Scheuermann [16/16/-]
19. Jodi Friedman [17/15/-]
1989 Nationals
1. Jill Trenary [1/1/2] 2. Kristi Yamaguchi [8/2/1] 3. Tonya Harding [4/3/3]
4. Holly Cook [3/4/4] 5. Nancy Kerrigan [7/5/5] 6. Kelly Ann Szmurlo [5/7/8]
7. Cindy Bortz [6/10/6] 8. Tonia Kwiatkowski [11/8/7]
9. Tracey Damigella [10/9/9]10. Jenni Meno [13/11/10]
11. Jennifer Leng [9/12/12]12. Kathaleen Kelly [12/13/11]
13. Kathryn Curielli [14/14/13]WDR Jeri Campbell [2/6/x]
Sk8Maven
> The question I'm wondering is why did it take her until '91 to get her
> act together?
That was the first year that compulsory figures were no longer required. I
notice that you did research Harding's placements in all phases of at
Nationals - hope you noticed that her figures placements were usually rather
low. She just wasn't that good at them (nor was Nancy, nor Kristi for that
matter).
Maven
Ann Lewis
> Yes, sad childhoods are a fact. However, there have been many a person
> who has risen above their backgrounds to be top flight classy
> individuals who contribute to society. Tonya could have done that, but
> chose not to apparently.
Oksana is also guilty of that, albeit on a lesser level. I think that
Oksana will continue to milk her "poor little orphan girl" status as
long as she can, and as long as others enable her to do so by pointing
out how bad a deal she got in life.
AJL
Ann Lewis
>
> In my opinion there is a world of difference between Tonya & Oksana. Oksana
> maybe played the 'poor orphan' a bit too long (I agree with AJL on this), but
> at least she took responsiblity for her addiction and for the car accident she
> caused. Tonya has yet to take responsiblity for her role in the Kerrigan
> thing.
The difference is only in degree. Oksana has yet to take responsibility
for her drunk driving accident. I predict that Oksana will succumb to
self-pity yet again after a string of last-place losses. One can see
these things coming ... and Oksana simply lacks the character to
overcome obstacles in life.
AJL
John Snakenburg
one thing I learned .. there was a Nadia on every street corner.
I could walk in to any gym in this country and find a young girl
with potential greater than Nadia. At the top .. or rather just
beneath the top .. is a gap between potential and fully developed.
I think that gap is caused by some kind of failure in the girl's
support system. It could be almost anything, but it threw up a
barrier to coaching, facilities, time ??? I saw gymnasts go to
absurd lengths to cross this gap .. move thousands of miles, pay
anything, suffer crippling injurys, live in total deprivation.
On any given night one of those girls could briefly cross that
gap and in one event with sheer ability beat the best of the best.
In gymnastics, we developed the elite program to close that gap
by trying to find those kids and keep them going. That's why the
dd is so amazingly high now. I even think the dd is higher in
college leagues than at the olympics. Anyway, that's who Tonya
Harding was(IS) .. a good kid, looking across that gap, with no
support system. .. would make me mad as hell, too!
johns
: Tonya a force to be reckoned with in '88, seemed this girl was always at the
SKHazen
In article <766r8i$8h7$3...@newshound.csrv.uidaho.edu>, sna...@news.uidaho.edu
(John Snakenburg) writes:
>college leagues than at the olympics. Anyway, that's who Tonya
>Harding was(IS) .. a good kid, looking across that gap, with no
>support system. .. would make me mad as hell, too!
I agree with much of the material preceding the foregoing, but this is where I
part company. *Some* of TH's support system was less than admirable. And only
the cold of heart would not acknowledge that and/or not get mad about it.
But only the uninformed would entertain the notion that she had *no* support
system. There are tons of skaters out there for whose family 1/10th of the
support she received would make the difference between having to abandon the
sport and enabling their child to reach for a higher plateau.
No tears for TH. Save it for those competitors who would make good use of
support if it were to become available.
Respectfully,
Steven <---- speaking as an individual, "private citizen" (not that it
matters; wait till MorryS weighs in on this one)
MorryS
>Anyway, that's who Tonya Harding was(IS) .. a good kid, looking across that
gap, with no support system. .. would make me mad as hell, too!
This is the first time I have ever weighed in on the Tonya issue and I intended
never to do so. However, a "Poor Tonya the victim" is just too much in the
light of reality.
There was a long history of acts and actions that indicate support was not the
main problem. First, Tonya was recieving more financial support than any other
skater during that period. Some rather famous sporting people paid for all her
skating expenses. Money did not fix the problem with Tonya's head. The final
"blow" only ended a long series of actions that should have been delt with much
earlier. I take some responsibility in that. I was an Official at some of the
events at which Tonya displayed her lack of ethics. At a Pacific Coast
Sectional she particpated in a bogus death threat to get out of competing and
to get a bye to Nationals. This was confirmed by the FBI. At the Albertville
Olympics she was more interested in talking to Portland reporterz than
practicing. She did not practice well and she bombed. She should have been
sent home at that time.
Since I was one that had to spend hours talking to the FBI after the final blow
I will never accept the poor Tonya theme.
There are great skaters in the system today who do not have nearly the
financial support that Tonya had. They manage to keep their ethics and are
working to overcome all the problems.
Flame me if you wish, but I was there and have a right to my opinions just as
much as does a blind fan.
LKW35
>much as does a blind fan.
Not everyone is a 'blind fan'. The woman made her choice. I also have no
sympathy.
PosterBoy
MorryS wrote in message <19981228111451...@ng121.aol.com>...
as
>much as does a blind fan.
No flames from this torch, Morry. After all, you were "there;" most of
us were not.
However, in fairness to snaken...I didn't think the poster was leaning
on FINANCIAL support, which you seem to focus on. I got the impression that
he was thinking of a broader support system, which might include strong
family values...and clear, sound advice from skating sources.
Cheers.
Oscark24
from her background, dealing with an abusive mom, picking up aluminimum cans
with her father to make ends-meal, an incident of attempted-rape from an older
family member, don't know if this happened or was one of Tonya's many
"fantasies," a marriage that was destined to fail. This girl had problems, all
the money in the world couldn't "right" her after all those years. It's
amazing this girl won a national championship, and mastered the triple axel (at
least for a year), with all that was staked up against her. Give her some
credit folks, with a family situation like hers, most would have given up on
an elitist sport like skating. If brought up in a family situation like most
skaters, with the right coaches and training, I have no doubt in my that mind
that she would have won gold in '92.
Why Tonya got caught up in this mess with Nancy is beyond me? Her performence
at Nationals in '94 was a lock for second-place at least, and probably could
have even won against Nancy. She had no need to "wipe" out the competition.
She was always a contender for a medal.
Marcusfam1
Valley in Aug. of 1991. It was a thrill to meet her and see Tonya skate that
night in the cold rain . I think Tonya could have been a great talent .She was
a strong person to have surived that awful Mother and doing without so many
things . She found her solace in skating . I think she should have been brought
up in a different and more loving home and not hang around with the losers she
had . I read a article years ago that the snotty rich USFSA didn't really want
to help her due to her blue -collar background . I read once that they nagged
Debi Thomas's Mom to buy a fur coat for skating meets . The poor woman was
having a tuff time making ends meet let alone paying for Debi's training .Mrs.
Thomas refused to buy the fur coat . Sure Nancy Kerrigan's family was not rich
by no means but the USFSA liked her better . After all Nancy didn't race cars
or work on her truck . Its good now that skaters are allowed to earn money and
keep it as in the old days it was more difficult and still is to support a
world -class skater . Tonya Harding may very well be the only American woman to
land a triple -axel and no one can take that away from her !
Harriet
Vespertine
<<Financial support alone couldn't have helped TH. Her problems with ethics
came
from her background, dealing with an abusive mom, picking up aluminimum cans
with her father to make ends-meal, an incident of attempted-rape from an older
family member, don't know if this happened or was one of Tonya's many
"fantasies," a marriage that was destined to fail. This girl had problems, all
the money in the world couldn't "right" her after all those years. It's
amazing this girl won a national championship, and mastered the triple axel (at
least for a year), with all that was staked up against her. Give her some
credit folks, with a family situation like hers, most would have given up on
an elitist sport like skating. If brought up in a family situation like most
skaters, with the right coaches and training, I have no doubt in my that mind
that she would have won gold in '92.>>
You know, I have heard speeches like this at courthouses many Friday
afternoons, when defendants are being sentenced for their crimes. I've also
heard similar stories at introductions and in biographies of people who have
overcome adversity and dubious beginnings to become very successful. I really
get tired of the "lousy childhood" defense. Plenty of people are raised in
poverty, are sexually and/or physically abused as children, have little family
support, and yet they manage to grow up to be decent, productive members of
society. To equate these things with personal feelings of inadequacy, or the
need for some motivational therapy is one thing - but to use it to excuse
immoral and criminal acts is quite another. When Harding acted as she did, she
was an adult - and it was past time for her to be whinning about her lousy
childhood. She was just a thug, and she acted like a thug, and I have no
sympathy for her whatsoever.
Pandora
sound much worse than it really was. She used to talk about how her mother
was married 8 times, as if she had to deal with 8 step-fathers, when in
reality she had a fairly stable, 2 parent home for 15 years. That's better
than most people. I know her parents aren't perfect but they sacrificed a
lot to support her skating, they drove her to countless lessons and
competitions, and how did she thank them? By telling every reporter that
would listen to her that she wanted to be adopted by her best friends
parents. What an ungrateful brat! I think Tonia complained about her family
because she wanted to be a sob story, she wanted pity, and she was jealous
of the attention that Kerrigan got for having a blind mother/welder father.
I don't feel bad for Tonia, I feel bad for her parents.
Oscark24 wrote in message <19981228141323...@ng25.aol.com>...
>Financial support alone couldn't have helped TH. Her problems with ethics
came
>from her background, dealing with an abusive mom, picking up aluminimum
cans
>with her father to make ends-meal, an incident of attempted-rape from an
older
>family member, don't know if this happened or was one of Tonya's many
>"fantasies," a marriage that was destined to fail. This girl had problems,
all
>the money in the world couldn't "right" her after all those years. It's
>amazing this girl won a national championship, and mastered the triple axel
(at
>least for a year), with all that was staked up against her. Give her some
>credit folks, with a family situation like hers, most would have given up
on
>an elitist sport like skating. If brought up in a family situation like
most
>skaters, with the right coaches and training, I have no doubt in my that
mind
>that she would have won gold in '92.
>
Dennis J Holland
>
> I just did some searching and found some interesting stats on Tonya's nationals
> competitions:
>
> In '86 she placed 6th
> in '87 5th
> in '88 5th
> in '89 3rd
>
> Flip? Triple-Triples? Can anyone provide some details into those years of her
> skating?. A 6th place showing is pretty damn good considering it was 1986 and
> her first nationals, way before Yamaguchi's and Kerrigan's time. Why wasn't
> brink of greatness. She was so much ahead in progress versus Kristi and Nancy,
> what the hell happened?
Tonya first came to my attention at Skate America (Portland, ME)in 1986.
She finished second to Tiffany Chin and actually won both the short
program and free skate but placed so low in figures she could not
overcome the deficit. I remember being impressed by her technical
ability. I thought she had great potential but like other naturally
talented skaters I believe she thought she did not need to train as hard
to get by. Later what bothered me about Tonya was her smoking. She
would cough and wheeze in Kiss N Cry and everyone watching would be told
she had asthma but what we weren't told at the time was she also smoked,
heavily.
I do not feel sorry for her. She did receive financial support and had
coaches who stood by her even when she was less than committed with her
training. I do, however, feel she has been subjected to a double
standard. There have been many male athletes and sportscasters who have
done things far worse than Tonya, Mike Tyson, Daryl Strawberry and Marv
Albert to name just some, who have been forgiven and allowed to
continue, albeit, after some time away, in their chosen field.
Erika
Chuckg
MorryS wrote in message <19981228195954...@ng126.aol.com>...
>Poster boy wrote:
>> However, in fairness to snaken...I didn't think the poster was
leaning
>>on FINANCIAL support, which you seem to focus on. I got the
impression that
>>he was thinking of a broader support system, which might include
strong family
>values...and clear, sound advice from skating sources.
>
was
>surrounded by people having their own agenda, with little thought of
Tonia's
>welfare.
Tonia or Tonya? Tonya.
>However, I won't go deeply into this aspect because some of the slime
>is still with us.
???
--
Chuckg
Ann Lewis
> Look at Ann's posts and all it generates . Ann is still posting on
> here and insulting others . No one can take that away from her .
While it's true that I'm still posting here, Harriet, I don't insult
others. I merely "calls 'em like I sees 'em." :-)
> I do have my
> rights to post here and its a public forum .
Yes, you do, and I, for one, hope that you continue to post about gossip
here. I will do so as well. :-)
AJL
Ann Lewis
>
> What a surprise - Harriet *isn't* a not-very-nice teeenage girl herself,
> regardless of the style and "maturity level" (or lack of same) of her posts!
>
> Wonder if she lets her girls give her the same sort of sass she gives us?
> Somehow I doubt it.
What a surprise ... Maven insulting Harriett. Good thing I was sitting
down. ;-)
AJL
Ann Lewis
>
> >What a surprise ... Maven insulting Harriett. Good thing I was sitting
> >down. ;-)
> >
> >AJL
> >
>
My pleasure. :-)
AJL
Ann Lewis
>
> And this relates to skating... how?
>
> Just curious. This is rec.sport.skating.ice.figure, not
>
>rec.sport.skating.how.I.raise.my.children.while.imposing.my.will.on.oth
>ers.
Seems to me that you might ask Kaiju and Fab4Fan99 the same question.
Harriet is not engaging in this dialogue alone, y'know. :-)
AJL
Ann Lewis
>specious argument snipped
What you've overlooked is that all of the events you've mentioned (the
church service, the movie theater, the funeral) are not supposed to
involve an exchange of thoughts and opinions the way an internet
newsgroup does. The very purpose of an internet newsgroup is to have
people communicate their thoughts and opinions. Sorry, hon, your
argument doesn't work, but it was a nice try. :-)
AJL
j...@cypress.com
ice...@aol.comjunkyemi (ICE LUNG) wrote:
> I just did some searching and found some interesting stats on Tonya's
nationals
> competitions:
>
> In '86 she placed 6th
> in '87 5th
> in '88 5th
> in '89 3rd
>
> The question I'm wondering is why did it take her until '91 to get her act
> together? What types of jumps was Harding doing in '86-'89? Triple Lutz?
> Flip? Triple-Triples? Can anyone provide some details into those years of her
> skating?. A 6th place showing is pretty damn good considering it was 1986 and
> her first nationals, way before Yamaguchi's and Kerrigan's time. Why wasn't
> Tonya a force to be reckoned with in '88, seemed this girl was always at the
> brink of greatness. She was so much ahead in progress versus Kristi and
Nancy,
> what the hell happened?
There have been a lot of skaters on the brink of greatness their
whole career. Tonya Harding is just one of many. A few break
into the stratosphere as soon as they come over the horizon, such
as Oksana Baiul. Many take years to accomplish this such as Todd
Eldredge or Rudy Galindo; most never make it to the stratosphere
at all. Not everyone can be a Michelle Kwan or a Todd Eldredge.
Some skaters abandon disciplined training; Tonya Harding was one
of these. I don't recall how Tonya Harding was at figures; that
may have held her back some in the 80s. Do remember that she came
up through the figures mill like most of us did. Some skaters
preferred to party, or get involved in too many other things. I
have to wonder if the Harding path would have been any different
if she had not met Jeff G. Will some external influence; school,
puberty monster, drugs, boys, injury, family, ect., get in the way
of the advancement of skaters like Sarah Hughes, Naomi Nam or
Elizabeth Kwon?
-jl John
Saddle up! Lock and load -- Data
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Prodigion
>
> Since I was one that had to spend hours talking to the FBI after the final blow
> I will never accept the poor Tonya theme.
>
> There are great skaters in the system today who do not have nearly the
> financial support that Tonya had. They manage to keep their ethics and are
> working to overcome all the problems.
>
> Flame me if you wish, but I was there and have a right to my opinions just as
> much as does a blind fan.
For what it's worth, count me in as one who doesn't have an ounce of
sympathy for Tonya - Frankly, I wish her ban from skating included
discussion on this newsgroup.
-Dave Amorde-
Prodigion
>
> Financial support alone couldn't have helped TH. Her problems with ethics came
> from her background, dealing with an abusive mom, picking up aluminimum cans
> with her father to make ends-meal, an incident of attempted-rape from an older
> family member, don't know if this happened or was one of Tonya's many
> "fantasies," a marriage that was destined to fail. This girl had problems, all
> the money in the world couldn't "right" her after all those years.
Good grief! I've got news, pal: *Everyone* has some amount of baggage to
carry, but that in no way excuses any of us for our personal conduct,
especially as adults. We all respond in varying degrees to both nature
and nuture, but the quantity or quality of either of these influences
doesn't excuse those who choose to rob, rape, defraud, etc.
I agree that we all have our breaking point, and I'm thankful that my
lot in life hasn't brought me to mine, but the fact remains: regardless
of what happened in her past, Tonya had a wonderful future ahead of her,
and she chose to throw it away - at the great expense of everyone around
her. She made many choices, and usually made the wrong one; she had many
chances, and usually threw them away. Had the "great blow" been truly an
isolated incident, perhaps forgiveness would be the order of the day,
but it wasn't - end of story.
-Dave Amorde-
MorryS
> However, in fairness to snaken...I didn't think the poster was leaning
>on FINANCIAL support, which you seem to focus on. I got the impression that
>he was thinking of a broader support system, which might include strong family
values...and clear, sound advice from skating sources.
If that was the meaning of the original post I completely agree. Tonia was
surrounded by people having their own agenda, with little thought of Tonia's
welfare. However, I won't go deeply into this aspect because some of the slime
is still with us.
MorryS
> I read a article years ago that the snotty rich USFSA didn't really want to
help her due to her blue -collar background .
That an absolute false statement. There are more blue collar skating families
in skating than are well off. One of my duties has always been to help find
funds for the many skaters that need support so I know the demographics of the
competitors.. In fact the leadership in the USFSA though Tonya would be our
next champion. If we had not felt that way no one would have put up with the
antics of Tonya over the previous years. As far as her Mother goes we never
saw her unless the event was in Portland.
SKHazen
In article <36880D...@moose.ncia.net>, Dennis J Holland
<dhol...@moose.ncia.net> writes:
>There have been many male athletes and sportscasters who have
>done things far worse than Tonya, Mike Tyson, Daryl Strawberry and Marv
>Albert to name just some, who have been forgiven and allowed to
>continue, albeit, after some time away, in their chosen field.
What TH did involved the integrity of the sport itself -- which is why she has
been banned from the eligible version of it. And don't give me the "there's no
proof she was involved or knew" junk: she pleaded guilty.
While what some of the others listed above did could be characterized as
"worse" (rape meets that standard, IMHO), the actual relevant action did not
relate to (much less involve the integrity of) the sport itself. Ask Pete Rose
if that difference has been significant to him.
Respectfully,
Steven <------ posting as an individual "private citizen" who happened to be
rink-side at Cobo Arena when the event in question occurred.
Marcusfam1
welcomed back into the sports world with open arms ! Something is very wrong
here .
I guess the world of figure skating and baseball are less forgiving . Look how
shabbily Baseball's Roger Maris was treated for so long .
Harriet
Marcusfam1
>whole career. Tonya Harding is just one of many.
Look at Nicole Bobek . She parties alot and does not have the best training
ethics either . She got arrested and went to court for breaking and stealing
money at a friend's home a few years ago . Tonya is not the only one !
Harriet
Marcusfam1
>
There was a T V movie on her life around the Lilehammer games .
Harriet
ICE LUNG
When did the USFSA start aiding Tonya? before or after '91 nationals? Maybe
she should have used that money to hire a coach who would train her rigorously
like Kwan and Lipinski, and not spend the money on bonding her teeth.
Ask yourself this question: Would figure skating be as successful as it is
today without Tonya Harding? Would the USFSA get that nice fat ABC-TV contract
every year? Say what you will about Tonya, those skaters who make millions
with those endorsement/pro skating tv shows aren't complaining. The night
Nancy got whacked, figure skating gained millions of fans.
Oscark24
>
There was a T V movie on her life around the Lilehammer games .<<<
I remember that. It was in a documentary style that depicted her rough
childhood and the incidents that occured during the '94 olympics. I think it
aired in the fall of '94 on NBC. It was VERY LAME in my opinion. Don't bother
trying to get a copy.
Oscark24
Tiffiany Chin, Caryn Kadavy, Jill Trenary), do any hard triples like the loop,
flip or lutz? I seem to recall that the flip and lutz was very rare for a
woman in the 80's. Were Kristi and Tonya doing the Flip, or Lutz when they
placed (2, 3) in '89?
<<<<From Skatabase:
1986 Nationals
1. Debi Thomas [-/-/1]
2. Caryn Kadavy [-/-/2]
3. Tiffany Chin [-/-/3]
4. Tracey Damigella [-/-/4]
5. Jill Trenary [-/-/5]
6. Tonya Harding [-/-/6]
7. Yvonne Gomez [-/-/7]
8. Kelly Ann Szmurlo [-/-/9]
9. Leslie Sikes [-/-/10]
10. Holly Cook [-/-/8]
11. Tracey Seliga [-/-/14]
12. Kathryn Adams [-/-/11]
13. Debbie Tucker [-/-/12]
14. Kimberly Drenser [-/-/13]
15. Kris Morzinski [-/-/-15]
16. Debbie LaVerde [-/-/16]
WDR Debbie Walls
1987 Nationals
1. Jill Trenary [2/2/1] 2. Debi Thomas [1/1/2] 3. Caryn Kadavy [3/9/3]
4. Tiffany Chin [4/3/5] 5. Tonya Harding [8/7/4] 6. Cindy Bortz [9/4/6]
7. Tracey Damigella [5/8/7] 8. Holly Cook [7/5/9] 9. Kathryn Adams [6/13/11]
10. Yvonne Gomez [11/11/10]11. Julie Wassermann [12/6/12]
12. E. Rory Flack [19/10/8]13. Kelly Ann Szmurlo [10/14/15]
14. Carrie Weber [17/12/13]15. Elisa Scheuermann [15/15/14]
16. Dawn Victorson [13/20/17]17. Lily Lee [18/18/16]
18. Danielle-Alyse Babaian [16/19/18]19. Joan Colignon [14/17/20]
20. Micki McMahon [20/16/19]
1988 Nationals
1. Debi Thomas [1/1/1] 2. Jill Trenary [3/3/2] 3. Caryn Kadavy [2/2/3]
4. Jeri Campbell [4/4/5] 5. Tonya Harding [8/9/4] 6. Holly Cook [7/6/6]
7. Cindy Bortz [6/5/7] 8. Tracey Damigella [5/8/13]
9. Kelly Ann Szmurlo [9/12/10]10. Kristi Yamaguchi [13/13/8]
11. Tonia Kwiatkowski [14/7/-]12. Nancy Kerrigan [18/10/9]
13. Lisa Cornelius [11/14/-]14. Julie Wassermann [10/17-]
15. E. Rory Flack [19/11/-]16. Kathaleen Kelly [12/18/-]
17. Tracie Brown [15/19/-]18. Elisa Scheuermann [16/16/-]
19. Jodi Friedman [17/15/-]
1989 Nationals
1. Jill Trenary [1/1/2] 2. Kristi Yamaguchi [8/2/1] 3. Tonya Harding [4/3/3]
4. Holly Cook [3/4/4] 5. Nancy Kerrigan [7/5/5] 6. Kelly Ann Szmurlo [5/7/8]
7. Cindy Bortz [6/10/6] 8. Tonia Kwiatkowski [11/8/7]
9. Tracey Damigella [10/9/9]10. Jenni Meno [13/11/10]
11. Jennifer Leng [9/12/12]12. Kathaleen Kelly [12/13/11]
13. Kathryn Curielli [14/14/13]WDR Jeri Campbell [2/6/x]<<<
Prodigion
>
> Ask yourself this question: Would figure skating be as successful as it is
> today without Tonya Harding? Would the USFSA get that nice fat ABC-TV contract
> every year? Say what you will about Tonya, those skaters who make millions
> with those endorsement/pro skating tv shows aren't complaining. The night
> Nancy got whacked, figure skating gained millions of fans.
So, do you honestly believe that the end justifies the means? I agree
that sometimes bad publicity is better than no publicity, but that
doesn't mean that the cause of such publicity should be excused,
glorified, etc.
-Dave Amorde-
TCAXEL
>ethics either . She got arrested and went to court for breaking and stealing
>money at a friend's home a few years ago . Tonya is not the only one !
>
>Harriet
>
I thought there was some sort of court plea bargain regarding her entering
someone's home without permission (part of the plea was to have been
confidentiality) but I never read she had actually been written up on a police
report for stealing. Do you recall where on the public record there was the
charge of theft?
Theo
PegLewis
In article <368f30fc...@news1.newscene.com>, pigl...@aol.incontinent
(Pig Lewis) writes:
>Did they make a Tonya Harding movie yet? It might be interesting.
Ricky, dear, you mean you missed "Tonya and Nancy: the Inside Story"? It aired
during May sweeps on NBC in 1994. Maybe your bedtime was too early.
Peg
Ricky's love object
Any request to cancel this post is a forgery.
VisitTheAll-KwanNetwork @ http://members.aol.com/AllKwanNet/index.html
VisitLjudmillia's text archive @ http://home.swbell.net/icedance/millia.htm
PegLewis
In article <19981228224621...@ng-fp1.aol.com>,
osca...@aol.comjfdifhkd (Oscark24) writes:
>
>>Did they make a Tonya Harding movie yet? It might be interesting.
>>
>
>There was a T V movie on her life around the Lilehammer games .<<<
>
>I remember that. It was in a documentary style that depicted her rough
>childhood and the incidents that occured during the '94 olympics. I think it
>aired in the fall of '94 on NBC. It was VERY LAME in my opinion. Don't
>bother
>trying to get a copy.
It's a brilliant camp classic of unintentional humor, much like Plan Nine from
Outer Space.
Definitely a must-see, particularly if you know what actually happened. Seeing
the actor-Nancy sitting with her actor-parents in the top rows of the
*bleachers* at "Nationals" is the tip of the idiocy iceberg in this telefilm.
It runs deep with inanity, and it mocks itself through its narrator and its
inclusion of scenes where the network brainstorms about getting it on the air
by May (which they did).
Anna M
a fact that some people can cope with those things and get out of them happy
and healthy and some can't. we aren't all alike!
I think Tonya was/is a great skater and I am sad for what happened, she
could have gone really far.
You may be as tired as you want hearing these "excuses" but you know,
sometimes it isn't an excuse sometimes it is a sad fact and reality, think
about that!
Anna M
Vespertine skrev i meddelandet
> You know, I have heard speeches like this at courthouses many
Fridayafternoons, when defendants are being sentenced for their crimes. I've
also heard similar stories at introductions and i biographies of people who
PegLewis
>**************
>I thought there was some sort of court plea bargain regarding her entering
>someone's home without permission (part of the plea was to have been
>confidentiality) but I never read she had actually been written up on a
>police report for stealing. Do you recall where on the public record there
was the
>charge of theft?
Someone once posted a link to the dismissal document, IIRC, in the response to
a similar spate of half-information (like that which Harriet posted in her zeal
to dish dirt in violation of NG posting guidelines). I don't have the URL, but
I saved the document, which begins:
"MI Court of Appeals
Michigan Court of Appeals Opinions brought to you courtesy of LAWYERS WEEKLY.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN V NICOLE BOBEK
No. 183668
LC No. 94-135903-FH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN,
Plaintiff-Appellant, 9:15 a.m.
v
NICOLE BOBEK,
Defendant-Appellee.
FOR PUBLICATION July 9, 1996 9:15 a.m.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before: Fitzgerald, P.J., and Corrigan and C.C. Schmucker,* JJ.
SCHMUCKER, J.
TCAXEL
>>I thought there was some sort of court plea bargain regarding her entering
>>someone's home without permission (part of the plea was to have been
>>confidentiality) but I never read she had actually been written up on a
>>police report for stealing. Do you recall where on the public record there
>was the
>>charge of theft?
>
Many thanks, Peg.
Theo
Kaiju
TCAXEL wrote:
>
> >Look at Nicole Bobek . She parties alot and does not have the best training
> >ethics either . She got arrested and went to court for breaking and stealing
> >money at a friend's home a few years ago . Tonya is not the only one !
> >
> >Harriet
> >
> **************
> I thought there was some sort of court plea bargain regarding her entering
> someone's home without permission (part of the plea was to have been
> confidentiality) but I never read she had actually been written up on a police
> report for stealing. Do you recall where on the public record there was the
> charge of theft?
I had never heard the stealing portion of these charges, either. Apparently
Nicole had permission from the homeowner's daughter to be in the house. This
was all admitted by all parties, including the embarrassed, overzealous
prosecutor.
It's just a case of Harriet rushing to spew more gossip on RSSIF, but didn't
bother to stop long enough to give attention to the facts of the situation.
And gee, considering how long ago this all was, and the many follow-up reports
in the media and the newsgroups, it's a miracle that Harriet managed to miss
all this.
But she likes gossip, eh? The more irresponsible, the better, apparent
Kaiju
--
Before you think, think.
PosterBoy
The URL is:
http://www.michlaw.com/mi/opin/coa/183668.HTM
Briefly, Nicole Bobek illegally entered a house, was caught stealing by
the owner. In court, she pleaded guilty to home invasion and...based on the
judge's assumption that the USFSA would severely discipline her...was
sentenced to probation.
(The court record does not establish how many years the USFSA suspended
her for.)
Bobek successfully appealed, citing news reports of the court record
despite her youth-offender status...but that ruling was later overturned,
and the original sentence restored.
Cheers.
TCAXEL wrote in message <19981229023005...@ng118.aol.com>...
>>>**************
>>>I thought there was some sort of court plea bargain regarding her
entering
>>>someone's home without permission (part of the plea was to have been
>>>confidentiality) but I never read she had actually been written up on a
>>>police report for stealing. Do you recall where on the public record
there
>>was the
>>>charge of theft?
>>
PosterBoy
Kaiju wrote in message <36888E57...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>...
>
>
>TCAXEL wrote:
>>
>> >Look at Nicole Bobek . She parties alot and does not have the best
training
>> >ethics either . She got arrested and went to court for breaking and
stealing
>> >money at a friend's home a few years ago . Tonya is not the only one !
>> >
>> >Harriet
>> >
>> I thought there was some sort of court plea bargain regarding her
entering
>> someone's home without permission (part of the plea was to have been
>> confidentiality) but I never read she had actually been written up on a
police
>> report for stealing. Do you recall where on the public record there was
the
>> charge of theft?
>
Apparently
>Nicole had permission from the homeowner's daughter to be in the house.
This
>was all admitted by all parties, including the embarrassed, overzealous
>prosecutor.
>
>It's just a case of Harriet rushing to spew more gossip on RSSIF, but
didn't
>bother to stop long enough to give attention to the facts of the situation.
>And gee, considering how long ago this all was, and the many follow-up
reports
>in the media and the newsgroups, it's a miracle that Harriet managed to
miss
>all this.
>
>But she likes gossip, eh? The more irresponsible, the better, apparent
>Kaiju
Fair enough, Kaiju...but please, PLEASE don't let Harriet's
reprehensible posting practices blind you to the truth. Please read:
http://www.michlaw.com/mi/opin/coa/183668.HTM
The stealing is there.
Cheers.
Kaiju
PosterBoy wrote:
>
> Kaiju wrote in message <36888E57...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>...
> Fair enough, Kaiju...but please, PLEASE don't let Harriet's
> reprehensible posting practices blind you to the truth. Please read:
> http://www.michlaw.com/mi/opin/coa/183668.HTM
>
> The stealing is there.
What is in the court record includes a statement that Bobeck pled guilty to
prevent a public disclosure of the incident. There was more backstory to this
one, also, including facts indicating that she did not steal, but was given
permission to get the money. No, I no longer have the URL (and I'm too lazy
to look it up at this point).
If we're going to look at the truth, then we have to look at all of it, PB.
There appears to be credible mitigating circumstances surrounding this case,
including the common option to plead guilty even if one is not guilty...with
the intent to avoid scandal.
That sure didn't work for Nicole. And although she's managed to live this
down, and has never given any indication that that incident was nothing more
than an unfortunate isolated incidence...we have the RSSIF resident gossips
dredging it all up again. I do agree, Harriet's posting habits are
reprehensible, however.
Leonard Ray
: <<Financial support alone couldn't have helped TH. Her problems with ethics
: came
: from her background, dealing with an abusive mom, picking up aluminimum cans
: with her father to make ends-meal, an incident of attempted-rape from an older
: family member, don't know if this happened or was one of Tonya's many
: "fantasies," a marriage that was destined to fail. This girl had problems, all
: amazing this girl won a national championship, and mastered the triple axel (at
: least for a year), with all that was staked up against her. Give her some
: credit folks, with a family situation like hers, most would have given up on
: an elitist sport like skating. If brought up in a family situation like most
: skaters, with the right coaches and training, I have no doubt in my that mind
: that she would have won gold in '92.>>
Ves:
: You know, I have heard speeches like this at courthouses many Friday
: afternoons, when defendants are being sentenced for their crimes. I've also
: heard similar stories at introductions and in biographies of people who have
: overcome adversity and dubious beginnings to become very successful. I really
: get tired of the "lousy childhood" defense.
I'm not sure he was defending her...it seems to me that he has a point.
It is true, as you say, that plenty of people who are sexually abused,
etc., grow up to be decent (and there are plenty of people given every
advantage in life that just turn out as bad apples. Nonetheless, it is
also true that people who have been abused are much more likely to be
screwed up, to put it bluntly, than people who have been raised by loving,
nurturing, together families. Tonya was very much a product of her
environment.
That doesn't mean that people shouldn't be punished for their misdeeds.
Nor did the poster say that they shouldn't.
It *does* give us a motivation for doing everything in our power to
prevent or correct abuse.
-- Kate
Margaret Burwell
Oscark24 (osca...@aol.comjfdifhkd) writes:
> I'm curious did the top female skaters of the mid-late 80's, (Debbie Thomas,
> Tiffiany Chin, Caryn Kadavy, Jill Trenary), do any hard triples like the loop,
> flip or lutz? I seem to recall that the flip and lutz was very rare for a
> woman in the 80's. Were Kristi and Tonya doing the Flip, or Lutz when they
> placed (2, 3) in '89?
I know Liz Manley had all five triples in her long program in 1988,
Marg
rnar...@my-dejanews.com
osca...@aol.comjfdifhkd (Oscark24) wrote:
> I'm curious did the top female skaters of the mid-late 80's, (Debbie Thomas,
> Tiffiany Chin, Caryn Kadavy, Jill Trenary), do any hard triples like the
loop,
> flip or lutz? I seem to recall that the flip and lutz was very rare for a
> woman in the 80's. Were Kristi and Tonya doing the Flip, or Lutz when they
> placed (2, 3) in '89?
>
I don't know much about Chin, but Thomas and Kadavy both did 3loop, and
Trenary had a 3flip. I think Yamaguchi did two 3lutzes and a 3flip in her
1989 LP (don't know about Harding).
Later!
Ronald
--
Ronald Narciso ============================== rnar...@my-dejanews.com
skating page ======== http://members.tripod.com/~rnarciso/skating.html
Sk8Maven
> I had never heard the stealing portion of these charges, either.
> Apparently Nicole had permission from the homeowner's daughter to be in
> the house. This was all admitted by all parties, including the
> embarrassed, overzealous prosecutor.
It seems the "emarrassed, overzealous" prosecutor is an adult soulmate of
Harriet, then, because he seems to have gotten it into the public records that
Nicole took money from a purse she found in the house -- and it's not at all
clear whether this was established "beyond a reasonable doubt" in court, or
whether this was the prosecutor's case argument.
What WAS beyond a reasonable doubt is that Nicole was in the house without the
owner's permission -- even if the owner's *daughter* had given her permission,
she hadn't gotten her father's permission to give that permission.
> It's just a case of Harriet rushing to spew more gossip on RSSIF, but
> didn't bother to stop long enough to give attention to the facts of
> the situation.
Neither did the prosecutor, apparently. (And if I continue this line of
comment, we'll be off-topic in no time.)
Maven
Marcusfam1
Same here Peg, I'm proud to say that for 44 years I've never had to appear in
court for anything ! But did see a trial where a dear friend's killer was on
trial .
Harriet
Marcusfam1
>reprehensible posting practices blind you to the truth. Please read:
>http://www.michlaw.com/mi/opin/coa/183668.HTM
>
> The stealing is there.
Well, it did happen and why do some feel like they have to deny it ??It was in
the papers just like Tonya's stuff was .
Harriet
Harriet
Sk8Maven
> Well, it did happen and why do some feel like they have to deny it ??
> It was in the papers just like Tonya's stuff was .
Do we *really* need reminding that not everything that appears in the papers
is solid incontrovertible fact? That there's a lot of error, inaccuracy,
misunderstanding, misremembering, misrepresentation, and outright *opinion*
even in stories that are presented as "news"? Consider, for instance, the way
*knowledgeable* posters are jumping all over columnist Jim Proudfoot for his
flagrantly inaccurate statements in a recent column. Consider the way a lot of
people here react whenever Christine Brennan is so much as *mentioned*.... :-)
Maven
NLathy
<<I don't know much about Chin, but Thomas and Kadavy both did 3loop, and
Trenary had a 3flip. I think Yamaguchi did two 3lutzes and a 3flip in her
1989 LP (don't know about Harding).>>
Tonya landed two 3 Loops (one in combo with a 2 Toe) in her long at 89
Nationals. Tonya landed a 3 Lutz on 2 feet.
Nat
TCAXEL
>> woman in the 80's. Were Kristi and Tonya doing the Flip, or Lutz when
>they
>> placed (2, 3) in '89?
Yes.
> I know Liz Manley had all five triples in her long program in 1988,
*********************
Yes, and if I recall she doubled a planned triple lutz in '87. I can't recall
her long program at '86 Worlds (Anybody??)
By the way, between Denise Biellmann in '80 and Liz Manley(and Midori Ito) in
'88, does anyone recall any top level female skaters who landed triple lutz at
worlds?
Did Midori do it in '86 or '87?
I recall Katarina Witt landed triple flip once or twice (and I believe it was
"gone" by '84)_but I honestly can't think of anyone else.
It seems all of a sudden in '89 the floodgates were open, with both Midori Ito,
Tonya Harding and Kristi Y.(2 of 'em!) all performing triple lutzes in their
long programs. In fact, I believe that since '89 only Jill Trenary in '90 has
won a ladies' World Champ without the triple lutz. And the last three years the
"standard" seems to be two triple lutzes in the long program.
To note:
89 Midori Ito (1 3lutz)
90 Jill Trenary (triple flip?)
91 Kristi Y. (2 3lutzes)
92 Krist Y. (2 3lutzes)
93 Oksana Baiul (1 3lutz)
94 Yuka Sato ( 1 3lutz)
95 Lulu (1 3lutz)
96 Michelle K. (2 3lutz)
97 Tara L. (2 3lutz)
98 Michelle K. ( 2 3lutz)
THEOr
AMAu...@aol.com
mor...@aol.com (MorryS) wrote:
> If that was the meaning of the original post I completely agree. Tonia was
> surrounded by people having their own agenda, with little thought of Tonia's
> welfare. However, I won't go deeply into this aspect because some of the
slime
> is still with us.
>
A most intriguing statement Mr. Stillwell. Makes me sorry you don't write a
book.
Antoinette Aubert
BOBEKBCKER
Sk8Maven <sk8m...@monumental.com> writes:
>Kaiju wrote:
>> I had never heard the stealing portion of these charges, either.
>> Apparently Nicole had permission from the homeowner's daughter to be in
>> the house. This was all admitted by all parties, including the
>> embarrassed, overzealous prosecutor.
Sk8Maven <sk8m...@monumental.com> writes:
>It seems the "emarrassed, overzealous" prosecutor is an adult soulmate of
>Harriet, then, because he seems to have gotten it into the public records
>that
>Nicole took money from a purse she found in the house -- and it's not at all
>clear whether this was established "beyond a reasonable doubt" in court, or
>whether this was the prosecutor's case argument.
Hi Maven, sorry to butt in here,
This is a valid point. The court documents I saw roughly a year ago clearly
indicated that Nicole had taken cash and was caught red handed, so to speak, by
the homeowner. I seem to recall the record also stated that the money had been
located in a bedroom closet, thereby making it hard to buy into the "little
misunderstanding" argument given at the 95 worlds. Yes, it certainly read like
the "prosecutor's case argument" to me, but the sad part is, it MAY very well
have been true. At any rate, it happened well over three years ago and Nicole
hasn't been in any significant trouble since. I do believe she learned her
lesson.
>What WAS beyond a reasonable doubt is that Nicole was in the house without
>the
>owner's permission -- even if the owner's *daughter* had given her
>permission,
>she hadn't gotten her father's permission to give that permission.
This is true.
>> It's just a case of Harriet rushing to spew more gossip on RSSIF, but
>> didn't bother to stop long enough to give attention to the facts of
>> the situation.
>
>Neither did the prosecutor, apparently. (And if I continue this line of
>comment, we'll be off-topic in no time.)
>
>Maven
If I'm not mistaken, isn't this the same Oakland County DA who
unsuccessfully tried to prosecute Jack(Dr. Death) Kevorkian(sp) on several
occasions? I think he was voted out of office.
Robert Bruce Myers
Nicole Bobek USA-1
"The earth does not belong to us, we belong to the earth."
Chief Seattle
Marcusfam1
of them are totally accurate either .
Harriet
erik...@my-dejanews.com
Correct. Tonya doubled her flip in a 2flip-2toe combo. I think that she
might have gotten a deduction for her hair that night. Anyone remember that
huge helmet of hair? Wasn't she already working with an image consultant at
the time of that Natls? Some say that Tonya should have placed above Kristi,
but I truly felt that Kristi was dead-on. She landed all of her jumps (3sal
with a three-turn so it counted, 2axel-3toe-2toe, 2flip-3toe, 3loop, 3flip,
3lutz-2toe, and 3lutz). Her presentation was little girly, but it had
definite choreo, and she had momentum. Tonya that night seemed cumbersome
and slow, mechanical. But what a 2axel... Jill Treachery I think saw the
writing on the wall that night. She was not to be the US darling heading
into Albertville. Her content was matched in abundance by Kristi and Tonya
that night. Sad.
Erik
Prodigion
>
> Well, there are so many skating books and bio books out there . I'm sure none
> of them are totally accurate either .
>
Harriet, *PLEASE* include some contextual reference in your posts! Not
all of us have the benefit of threaded newsreaders! Even if we did, it
time-consuming and rude to force us to refer to previous messages in
order to make sense of your posts.
-Dave Amorde- sorry for venting
erik...@my-dejanews.com
tca...@aol.com (TCAXEL) wrote:
> >I seem to recall that the flip and lutz was very rare for a
> >> woman in the 80's. Were Kristi and Tonya doing the Flip, or Lutz when
> >they
> >> placed (2, 3) in '89?
> ********************
> Yes.
I love this time period. YES, Tonya had the flip and lutz in 1989. I
believe she had the flip and lutz as a novice, no? She was quite an athlete.
> > I know Liz Manley had all five triples in her long program in 1988,
Wrong. Never had the 3flip. At least it was never in her programs from
1985 on.
> Yes, and if I recall she doubled a planned triple lutz in '87.
Oh god, that 1987 free skate was atrocious. I can't even remember whether
she was falling or doubling (which I feel is worse). I don't remember if she
landed even one triple that night.
>I can't recall
> her long program at '86 Worlds (Anybody??)
That was just as good as Calgary. Beautiful lutz, loop, toe and sal. She
never did very many triple combinations. I think her combo in that free skate
was 2axel-2toe.
> By the way, between Denise Biellmann in '80 and Liz Manley(and Midori Ito) in
> '88, does anyone recall any top level female skaters who landed triple lutz at
> worlds?
AGNES somebody. Wretched skater. Her short program at Calgary is one of
my alltime favorites (along with Joanne Conway's). I believe Dick's comment:
"Slow skating, pedestrian choreography, very unfortunate for us!!!" She
could not skate worth a damn. I believe she was from France and started the
whole Surya tradition of horrible skating technique. Agnes Gossellini? That
sounds right.
> Did Midori do it in '86 or '87?
87 she tried it and fell in the free. I don't have her 86 program, which
PMO.
> I recall Katarina Witt landed triple flip once or twice (and I believe it was
> "gone" by '84)_but I honestly can't think of anyone else.
>
> It seems all of a sudden in '89 the floodgates were open, with both Midori
Ito,
> Tonya Harding and Kristi Y.(2 of 'em!) all performing triple lutzes in their
> long programs. In fact, I believe that since '89 only Jill Trenary in '90
has
> won a ladies' World Champ without the triple lutz. And the last three years
the
> "standard" seems to be two triple lutzes in the long program.
>
> To note:
>
> 89 Midori Ito (1 3lutz)
> 90 Jill Trenary (triple flip?)
> 91 Kristi Y. (2 3lutzes)
> 92 Krist Y. (2 3lutzes)
> 93 Oksana Baiul (1 3lutz)
> 94 Yuka Sato ( 1 3lutz)
> 95 Lulu (1 3lutz)
> 96 Michelle K. (2 3lutz)
> 97 Tara L. (2 3lutz)
> 98 Michelle K. ( 2 3lutz)
>
> THEOr
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Marcusfam1
have to post by the heading above instead . Some were complaining that
Brennan's skating books are not accurate and full of false statements so this
is what my post was referring to when I mentioned of other books out there that
may not be accurate either . Hope this makes more sense ?
Harriet
PosterBoy
Kaiju wrote in message <36889E12...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>...
>> reprehensible posting practices blind you to the truth. Please read:
>> http://www.michlaw.com/mi/opin/coa/183668.HTM
>> The stealing is there.
>
>prevent a public disclosure of the incident. There was more backstory to
this
>one, also, including facts indicating that she did not steal, but was given
>permission to get the money. No, I no longer have the URL (and I'm too
lazy
>to look it up at this point).
The URL provided above includes this paragraph from the judge's very
clear summary of the events which brought Nicole to the bar of justice:
"On November 2, 1994, defendant entered a friend's home by pressing a code
that allowed her entry into the garage and subsequent entry into the home.
Once inside, defendant went upstairs to a closet, noticed a purse containing
money, and took the money. Defendant placed the money in her pocket. When
she turned around, the owner of the house was behind her. When confronted,
defendant returned the money to the owner."
>
>If we're going to look at the truth, then we have to look at all of it, PB.
>There appears to be credible mitigating circumstances surrounding this
case,
>including the common option to plead guilty even if one is not
guilty...with
>the intent to avoid scandal.
The mititgating circumstances recognized by the court had to do with her
age...not her innocence of the crime, of which she was convicted...and her
sentence so reflected that "youth" status. She did no time in durance vile.
(Again, I do not know what penalties were imposed by the USFSA, although
the judge's leniency was based to a degree upon his assumption that such
penalties would, indeed, be imposed).
>
>That sure didn't work for Nicole. And although she's managed to live this
>down, and has never given any indication that that incident was nothing
more
>than an unfortunate isolated incidence...
Which, IMO, is an indication that the judge's ruling was efficacious.
And for that, society (and Nicole) should be grateful. I must add that I AM
pleased that the justice system recognizes that criminals can, in time,
"live down" their past...which Nicole apparently has. I only wish that we
(society) could also adopt that attitude.
>we have the RSSIF resident gossips
>dredging it all up again.
I think Kaiju, correctly, has gone to the core of the "gossip"
discussions ongoing here. Personally, I would prefer that discussion of
skaters' (and posters'!!) character flaws be avoided except in the rare
cases where the flaws are germane to the discussion of the person's skating
(or posting) activities. But I think it is especially important that even
praiseworthy characteristics and actions be similarly avoided...if only
because such talk (intentionally or not) so often triggers an opposite
reaction. I do not subscribe to the "If you can't say anything good..."
cliche', nor do I think lathering readers with all that is good and pure
about a "fave" is necessary.
>I do agree, Harriet's posting habits are
>reprehensible, however.
I THOUGHT you might!! <g>
Cheers.
Prodigion
I'm not sure - what were we talking about? ;-)
-Dave Amorde-
Virginia Blalock
wrote:
>I don't think anyone is really using her lousy childhood as a excuse. it is
>a fact that some people can cope with those things and get out of them happy
>and healthy and some can't. we aren't all alike!
>I think Tonya was/is a great skater and I am sad for what happened, she
>could have gone really far.
>You may be as tired as you want hearing these "excuses" but you know,
>sometimes it isn't an excuse sometimes it is a sad fact and reality, think
>about that!
Yes, sad childhoods are a fact. However, there have been many a person
who has risen above their backgrounds to be top flight classy
individuals who contribute to society. Tonya could have done that, but
chose not to apparently.
Virginia
Visit The Skating Rink
http://visions.simplenet.com/skate/index.html
Virginia Blalock
>When did the USFSA start aiding Tonya? before or after '91 nationals? Maybe
>she should have used that money to hire a coach who would train her rigorously
>like Kwan and Lipinski, and not spend the money on bonding her teeth.
I cannot comment on when she got financial help, but the last
statement here sums up a lot of things. Tonya seemed to be more
interested in becoming a "star" and getting lots of money than
anything else.
>Ask yourself this question: Would figure skating be as successful as it is
>today without Tonya Harding? Would the USFSA get that nice fat ABC-TV contract
>every year? Say what you will about Tonya, those skaters who make millions
>with those endorsement/pro skating tv shows aren't complaining. The night
>Nancy got whacked, figure skating gained millions of fans.
I think that there are lots of people in the sport that would rather
this had not happend regardless of the end financial gain.
Virginia Blalock
>>>Did they make a Tonya Harding movie yet? It might be interesting.
>>>
>>
>>There was a T V movie on her life around the Lilehammer games .<<<
>>
>>I remember that. It was in a documentary style that depicted her rough
>>childhood and the incidents that occured during the '94 olympics. I think it
>>aired in the fall of '94 on NBC. It was VERY LAME in my opinion. Don't
>>bother
>>trying to get a copy.
>
>It's a brilliant camp classic of unintentional humor, much like Plan Nine from
>Outer Space.
I personally liked COmedy Central's Tonya/Nancy movie better. Spunk:
The Tonya Harding Story was 15 minutes long-just the amount of time it
deserved. And who could forget the brilliance of Tina Yothers as
Tonya!
Marcusfam1
articles in papers on skating were false and not that accurate . So I just said
that I'm sure there are other skating books and bios of skaters that are not
that accurate either .
Harriet
LKW35
maybe played the 'poor orphan' a bit too long (I agree with AJL on this), but
at least she took responsiblity for her addiction and for the car accident she
caused. Tonya has yet to take responsiblity for her role in the Kerrigan
thing. I think the problem with both was immaturity, not circumstance.
PosterBoy
Chuckg wrote in message <36884...@news1.starnetinc.com>...
>
>MorryS wrote in message <19981228195954...@ng126.aol.com>...
>>Poster boy wrote:
PB:
>>> However, in fairness to snaken...I didn't think the poster was
>leaning
>>>on FINANCIAL support, which you seem to focus on. I got the
>impression that
>>>he was thinking of a broader support system, which might include
>strong family
>>values...and clear, sound advice from skating sources.
>>
Morry:
>>If that was the meaning of the original post I completely agree. Tonia
>was
>>surrounded by people having their own agenda, with little thought of
>Tonia's
>>welfare.
>
charlsey:
>Tonia or Tonya? Tonya.
>
Hell, I thought PosterBoy was a nitpicker, par excellence!!!
This is far beyond ANYTHING that PB could dredge up.
Hopefully, charlsey is the only reader here who has failed to note the
incredible progress shown in Morry's posts...in just a few, short months.
The spelling, the syntax, even the typing...has shown an incredible
improvement...and made Morry's posts easier to read (and enjoy)...beyond
those of any other poster here. Instead of picking up the most minor...and
of no consequence...spelling error (and an easy one to make), it would be
more appropriate and honest to give credit where it is due.
(For those unfamiliar with this topic, please check DejaNews for the
"old" Morry and the "new," improved version!!!)
Congratulations, Morry. Keep it up. Pay no attention to the
anally-retentive and small-minded among us.
For cryin' out loud, we have not had to ask The Rev to invoke her
spell-checking magic on one of Morry's posts for eon's!!!
Cheers.
PegLewis
In article <36893e3c...@news.cloud9.net>, skat...@visions.simplenet.com
(Virginia Blalock) writes:
Alas, I did not have cable TV then. <sigh> I saw clips of the project being
shot on Entertainment Tonight - wasn't it bundled with a Bobbitt spoof in a
double-header called "Attack of the 5'4" Women" or some such title?
Peg
Ricky's love object
Any request to cancel this post is a forgery.
VisitTheAll-KwanNetwork @ http://members.aol.com/AllKwanNet/index.html
VisitLjudmillia's text archive @ http://home.swbell.net/icedance/millia.htm
Patti Cassalia
> Ask yourself this question: Would figure skating be as successful as it is
> today without Tonya Harding? Would the USFSA get that nice fat ABC-TV contract
> every year? Say what you will about Tonya, those skaters who make millions
> with those endorsement/pro skating tv shows aren't complaining. The night
> Nancy got whacked, figure skating gained millions of fans.
Skating definitely is more visible to more people since the big whack --
whether that is a good thing or not I don't know. Even Eric Cartman on
Southpark has threatened to make one of his friends cry like "Nancy
Kerrigan did when she was wacked on the knee!" And this is a cartoon!
Patti
Patti Cassalia
> It's a brilliant camp classic of unintentional humor, much like Plan Nine from
> Outer Space.
> Definitely a must-see, particularly if you know what actually happened. Seeing
> the actor-Nancy sitting with her actor-parents in the top rows of the
> *bleachers* at "Nationals" is the tip of the idiocy iceberg in this telefilm.
> It runs deep with inanity, and it mocks itself through its narrator and its
> inclusion of scenes where the network brainstorms about getting it on the air
> by May (which they did).
Sounds hilarious, anyone know where I can get a copy?
Patti
PosterBoy
Marcusfam1 wrote in message <19981229151232...@ng150.aol.com>...
>Well, Dave I try to quote some things but sometimes the posts are gone and
I
>have to post by the heading above instead .
This makes sense...but only to a reader who has just finished reading
Dave's post. To anyone else not blessed with photographic memory, it is at
best nonsensical...at worst, terribly lame as an excuse, and very rude to
readers of the newsgroup. IMO.
> Some were complaining that
>Brennan's skating books are not accurate and full of false statements so
this
>is what my post was referring to when I mentioned of other books out there
that
>may not be accurate either . Hope this makes more sense ?
It certainly makes MORE sense to me that your preceding post...which was
needlessly without any context, and without much sense.
You can do MUCH better, Harriet. I do solemnly believe.
Cheers.
PosterBoy
Sk8Maven wrote in message <3688F180...@monumental.com>...
>Kaiju wrote:
>> I had never heard the stealing portion of these charges, either.
>> Apparently Nicole had permission from the homeowner's daughter to be in
>> the house. This was all admitted by all parties, including the
>> embarrassed, overzealous prosecutor.
>
>Harriet, then, because he seems to have gotten it into the public records
that
>Nicole took money from a purse she found in the house -- and it's not at
all
>clear whether this was established "beyond a reasonable doubt" in court, or
>whether this was the prosecutor's case argument.
>
Mave'....please read the JUDGEment at the URL I have twice provided.
It is not product of the prosecutor's diligence or even...in this
instance...of Harriet's imagination.
http://www.michlaw.com/mi/opin/coa/183668.HTM
Cheers.
Dennis J Holland
wrote:
>
> > Ask yourself this question: Would figure skating be as successful as it is
> > today without Tonya Harding? Would the USFSA get that nice fat ABC-TV contract
> > every year? Say what you will about Tonya, those skaters who make millions
> > with those endorsement/pro skating tv shows aren't complaining. The night
> > Nancy got whacked, figure skating gained millions of fans.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the 88 Olympics with the Battle of
the Brians and the two Carmens garner some of figure skatings highest
ratings? I really feel that this was when interest began to increase
with the sport. The Nancy/Tonya incident brought in the sensational
element but when good ratings continued the networks, agents, media
began to see significant $$$$$$$$$ signs and the rest is history.
Erika Welch
Sk8Maven
> >of Harriet, then, because he seems to have gotten it into the public
> >records that Nicole took money from a purse she found in the house --
> >and it's not at all clear whether this was established "beyond a
> >reasonable doubt" in court, or whether this was the prosecutor's case
> >argument.
> Mave'....please read the JUDGEment at the URL I have twice
> provided.
I did. It's still not clear exactly what was *proved* beyond a reasonable
doubt and what was the prosecutor's official story. I think we can all
basically agree that Nicole's actions were stupid and irresponsible even by
*her* lax standards, particularly in assuming that she had permissions which
she did not have and ought not to have had. As for establishing criminality of
*intent*, there are too many conflicting stories, and the prosecutor's is only
*one* of them. (It's pretty clear, though, that the friend acted almost as
stupidly and irresponsibly as Nicole in handing out blanket permissions
without asking Daddy first -- or even telling him afterward.)
> It is not product of the prosecutor's diligence or even...in this
> instance...of Harriet's imagination.
I'm trying to AVOID getting started on prosecutors in general and one
not-in-the-least-skating-related prosecutor in particular -- and you keep
pushing me in *EXACTLY* that direction. PB, please STOP IT or you will force
me to killfile your posts too.
Maven
Kaiju
PosterBoy wrote:
>
> Kaiju wrote in message <36889E12...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>...
> >PosterBoy wrote:
> >> Kaiju wrote in message <36888E57...@NOSPAM.ecn.com>...
> >
> >> Fair enough, Kaiju...but please, PLEASE don't let Harriet's
> >> reprehensible posting practices blind you to the truth. Please read:
> >> http://www.michlaw.com/mi/opin/coa/183668.HTM
> >> The stealing is there.
> >
> >What is in the court record includes a statement that Bobeck pled guilty to
> >prevent a public disclosure of the incident. There was more backstory to
> this
> >one, also, including facts indicating that she did not steal, but was given
> >permission to get the money. No, I no longer have the URL (and I'm too
> lazy
> >to look it up at this point).
>
> The URL provided above includes this paragraph from the judge's very
> clear summary of the events which brought Nicole to the bar of justice:
But...but...but... That isn't the backstory. That's still what was before
the bench, the prosecutor's story that was uncontested. Much more was
reported in the media than what was in the court record, which is what I
inferred previously. In all fairness, especially since I know how the legal
system works, I have to look at all available, *credible*, evidence before I
draw conclusions. That includes interviews from all three sides involved:
Nicole, the family, and the prosecutor. Most of that testimony never made it
before the bench. Nicole pled guilty to avoid that spectacle. The penalties
for her doing so would have been minimal and time limited...had not the stupid
prosecutor attempted to raise his value by blabbing. What an unethical
dummie!
Now Nicole will have to endure evil-minded snickers by gossips forever.
> >If we're going to look at the truth, then we have to look at all of it, PB.
> >There appears to be credible mitigating circumstances surrounding this
> case,
> >including the common option to plead guilty even if one is not
> guilty...with
> >the intent to avoid scandal.
>
> The mititgating circumstances recognized by the court had to do with her
> age...not her innocence of the crime, of which she was convicted...and her
> sentence so reflected that "youth" status.
The mitigating circumstances to which I refer won't be found in the court
record. Not entirely. You'd have to read the news reports. It seems people
are more open to testifying before a television camera than they are in
court. Heck, they'll tell the truth before a cross-examining attorney before
they tell the full truth to their own attorney in some cases! Har! (BTDT...)
> >That sure didn't work for Nicole. And although she's managed to live this
> >down, and has never given any indication that that incident was nothing
> more
> >than an unfortunate isolated incidence...
>
> Which, IMO, is an indication that the judge's ruling was efficacious.
> And for that, society (and Nicole) should be grateful. I must add that I AM
> pleased that the justice system recognizes that criminals can, in time,
> "live down" their past...which Nicole apparently has. I only wish that we
> (society) could also adopt that attitude.
Same here. We'll have to endure the gossip pundits on RSSIF and elsewhere,
methinks. They will grab onto any morsel they can...and hang onto it like
pitbulls hanging onto a mailman's leg.
> >we have the RSSIF resident gossips
> >dredging it all up again.
>
> I think Kaiju, correctly, has gone to the core of the "gossip"
> discussions ongoing here. Personally, I would prefer that discussion of
> skaters' (and posters'!!) character flaws be avoided except in the rare
> cases where the flaws are germane to the discussion of the person's skating
> (or posting) activities. But I think it is especially important that even
> praiseworthy characteristics and actions be similarly avoided...if only
> because such talk (intentionally or not) so often triggers an opposite
> reaction. I do not subscribe to the "If you can't say anything good..."
> cliche', nor do I think lathering readers with all that is good and pure
> about a "fave" is necessary.
I can go with that. Particularly when it pertains to Gordeeva's Sainthood and
the inevitable stuffing that perception down our (RSSIFers') throats. <Gurgh>
> >I do agree, Harriet's posting habits are
> >reprehensible, however.
>
> I THOUGHT you might!! <g>
Heh...
Kaiju
--
Before you think, think.
Kaiju
Marcusfam1 wrote:
>
> >>I do agree, Harriet's posting habits are
> >> >reprehensible, however.
> >>
>
> What about your own ranting long posts and others ? LOL !
At least 99% of my posts are on topic and lack silly gossip. And yours rarely
are. LOL!
Chuckg
PosterBoy wrote in message
>
>Chuckg wrote in message <36884...@news1.starnetinc.com>...
>>
>>MorryS wrote in message
<19981228195954...@ng126.aol.com>...
>>>Poster boy wrote:
>
>
> PB:
>>>> However, in fairness to snaken...I didn't think the poster was
>>leaning
>>>>on FINANCIAL support, which you seem to focus on. I got the
>>impression that
>>>>he was thinking of a broader support system, which might include
>>strong family
>>>values...and clear, sound advice from skating sources.
>>>
>
>
> Morry:
>>>If that was the meaning of the original post I completely agree.
Tonia
>>was
>>>surrounded by people having their own agenda, with little thought of
>>Tonia's
>>>welfare.
>>
>
> charlsey:
>>Tonia or Tonya? Tonya.
>>
>
>
>
> Hell, I thought PosterBoy was a nitpicker, par excellence!!!
> This is far beyond ANYTHING that PB could dredge up.
(shrug)
Wouldn't have said it had there not been another skater named Tonia.
Yes, I well know the odds of anyone confusing the two Tonyas/Tonias are
well under 1%. But better safe than sorry.
> Hopefully, charlsey is the only reader here who has failed to note
the
>incredible progress shown in Morry's posts...in just a few, short
months.
> The spelling, the syntax, even the typing...has shown an incredible
>improvement...and made Morry's posts easier to read (and
enjoy)...beyond
>those of any other poster here. Instead of picking up the most
minor...and
>of no consequence...spelling error (and an easy one to make),
Hardly. IMO, the hardest thing possible to do would be to confuse the
Tonya for the Tonia in spelling... it's a *name*.
But besides us, who really gives a damn? This is just you finding
another excuse to try and yank my chain again. Please give the
bandwidth a rest Mr. Brauckmann, thank you.
--
Chuckg
Kaiju
Marcusfam1 wrote:
>
> >At least 99% of my posts are on topic and lack silly gossip. And yours
> >rarely
> >are. LOL!
> >
> >
> >Kaiju
> >
>
> Well, my posts are short and sweet and yours are so long and boring ! You go
> on and on about some things that have been discussed too much already .
What's the matter? Short attention span, or reading deficit?
> Which
> posts do you like best ? Mine or Ann's ??<G>
What a sorry choice.
Kaiju
Marcusfam1 wrote:
>
> >it's a miracle that Harriet managed to miss
> >all this.
> >
> >But she likes gossip, eh? The more irresponsible, the better, apparent
> >
> >
> >Kaiju
>
> I got so disgusted with Nagano , I didn't post of a long time so missed alot of
> posts. I'm sure Kaiju loves the gossip but won't admit it !<G>
I have already stated on RSSIF that I indulge in gossip. I simply don't do it
here on RSSIF, but keep it on the appropriate newsgroups. You, on the other
hand, have so little regard for the newsgroup that you insist you do it here
in violation of the newsgroup Charter.
At this juncture I can't decide whether you are merely immature and rude...or
stupid. It is such a simple netiquette request that you so proudly and
arrogantly flout.
PosterBoy
Chuckg wrote in message <3689a...@news1.starnetinc.com>...
Sure. Sure.
In a thread with the subject line "??? on the Backstory of Tonya
Harding: 1986-90," there was likely to be a great deal of confusion with
another Tanya, Tonya or Tonia. Yarite!!! You specialize in low blows, then
cop out like this. Sheesh!!
>
>> Hopefully, charlsey is the only reader here who has failed to note
>the
>>incredible progress shown in Morry's posts...in just a few, short
>months.
>> The spelling, the syntax, even the typing...has shown an incredible
>>improvement...and made Morry's posts easier to read (and
>enjoy)...beyond
>>those of any other poster here. Instead of picking up the most
>minor...and
>>of no consequence...spelling error (and an easy one to make),
>
>Hardly. IMO, the hardest thing possible to do would be to confuse the
>Tonya for the Tonia in spelling... it's a *name*.
See above.
>
>But besides us, who really gives a damn? This is just you finding
>another excuse to try and yank my chain again. Please give the
>bandwidth a rest Mr. Brauckmann, thank you.
Thanks for the Mister. It's about time you showed respect for someone
on this newsgroup, even if it had to be PosterBoy.
Yanking your chain is no challenge. It's right up there over the bowl.
Cheers.
>
>--
>Chuckg
>
>
Ann Lewis
> The question is whether a request
> (or even a demand) for self-restraint constitutes a violation of
> someone's right to free speech. The issues involved are not restricted
> by the medium or any associated conventions.
You're really a confused girl. When one attends a movie or a church
service, one realizes that one is attending to listen and/or watch an
event, rather than to participate in a discussion. Therefore, in those
sorts of contexts, it is entirely reasonable for an individual to be
admonished for speaking his or her mind out of turn. With me so far?
However, an internet newsgroup is designed for communication among the
participants. The context is quite relevant here. When another
theatregoer shushes you for speaking up during a movie, it's not the
content of your speech that he or she is objecting to; it's the fact
that any speech at all is diminishing the ability of what everyone
present came to the theatre for, i.e., to see a movie.
In this particular newsgroup, there are a number of control freaks who
seek to silence others merely because those others have dared to
disagree with them. People attend newsgroups precisely to read the
messages posted therein, and hopefully, to post some of their own. It's
a whole different kettle of fish (pardon the cliche), and it's too bad
that you fail to grasp that distinction.
AJL
Ann Lewis
>
> Marcusfam1 wrote:
> >
> > >What a maroon.
> > >
> > >
> > >Kaiju
> > >
> >
> > Oops , spelling error alert ! It is moron ! LOL .
> >
> > Harriet
>
> Oops! Guess you never watched Bugs Bunny....;-)
Is that where the term comes from? I have no problem believing that
Kaiju still watches Bugs on a regular basis. I myself prefer CNN. ;-)
AJL
Ann Lewis
>
> OK, fine. So, if I decide to purposely get my newsgroups mixed up, and post
> incessantly about the Beatles here, and post incessantly about Nicole Bobek
> over on rec.music.beatles, how do you think that would go over? Not very well,
> I'd think.
That's a distortion of what I wrote. BTW, why do you like the Beatles
anyway? Not one of them could sing. :-)
AJL
Ann Lewis
> you can discuss gossip to your heart's content...on a
> newsgroup designed for that purpose.
I prefer to - and shall - discuss gossip to my heart's content right
here on rssif. Thanks all the same. :-)
>Since you have deliberately chosen to
> flout that rule, you are the recipient of yet more of that negative attention
> you so crave. (Of course most humans outgrow that need by the time they are
> 20 years old or so...I suppose this means you are somewhat emotionally
> retarded.)
And yet you still unfailingly respond to the vast majority of my posts.
I guess that you secretly find them much more thought-provoking than
you choose to admit. They must provide a refreshing break from the Bugs
Bunny reruns that you so enjoy. :-)
AJL
Ann Lewis
> You speak in gibberish, Harriet. You are also so wrong on so many different
> levels and is some many directions, why would you assume you deserve any
> respect for what you've said?
hehehe ... You insult Harriet, then you expect her to slavishly obey
your directive to refrain from gossiping here. I don't think that's the
way to go about successfully persuading someone to follow a particular
course of action. ;-)
> Kaiju <except perhaps from Annie...who has her own agenda underway and is
> using you...>
My only agenda is to allow those who wish to voice any opinions about
skating (and gossip related to skating) to not be silenced by the
Gestapo-like tactics of a bunch of bullies. As for using people ... I
leave that to you, Joelle, and others of your mentality. :-)
AJL
PegLewis
In article <2Mdi2.25$gB.1...@newsgate.direct.ca>, "PosterBoy"
<bra...@bigfoot.com> writes:
>
>Marcusfam1 wrote in message <19981229151232...@ng150.aol.com>...
>>Well, Dave I try to quote some things but sometimes the posts are gone and
>I
>>have to post by the heading above instead .
>
> This makes sense...but only to a reader who has just finished reading
>Dave's post. To anyone else not blessed with photographic memory, it is at
>best nonsensical...at worst, terribly lame as an excuse, and very rude to
>readers of the newsgroup. IMO.
I fail to understand how one can craft a threaded response on either AOL
newsreader without being in a position to quote the post one is responding to.
I mean, the post is open, and you can highlight words and click to reply to the
group or to the poster offline, or simply reply and then pick the option on the
form and then highlight and click the quote button when you're online.
There's no reason to *not* reply using the AOL newsreader unless your mouse if
broken, and even then you can get around that deficiency in AOL's programming
by posting via the email gateway (I know this because I had to do it when my
old machine's motherboard was failing).
Apparently it's a conscious choice to *not* include quotations. <shrug>
Quotations help context so much, I wish everyone would use them judiciously.
Marcusfam1
>
>Cheers.
Geez ! You nit pick on every tiny little thing . I was doing the best I can .
Are you working on your Phd in English ?? Thanks for having so much faith in
me .
Happy New Year !
Harriet
Marie L. Hughes
<bra...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Fair enough, Kaiju...but please, PLEASE don't let Harriet's
>reprehensible posting practices blind you to the truth. Please read:
>http://www.michlaw.com/mi/opin/coa/183668.HTM
>
> The stealing is there.
>
Well, I've read it and while the stealing "is there" it isn't there like you've
implied. It was stated in the documents what happened according to the
prosecutor. He says she did X, Y and Z. The documents then say that Nicole chose
to plead guilty because that would keep the matter secret which was necessary to
continue her skating career. It doesn't say one way or another what her
interpretation of what happened was. She chose not to fight the charge so there
is no record of her side of the argument about what happened. Since she didn't
fight the charges, the courts accepted the prosecutor's version of what happened
as fact. (Which is what happens by definition when you plead guilty.) This does
not make it the truth. If the case had gone to court and Nicole had made her
argument and the judge had decided the evidence supported the prosecutor, that
would be different.
Also, in aother message you state:
>>>In court, she pleaded guilty to home invasion and...based on the
judge's assumption that the USFSA would severely discipline her...was
sentenced to probation.
(The court record does not establish how many years the USFSA suspended
her for.)<<<
But the document you cite not only doesn't suppor this statement, it says THE
OPPOSITE. It says that Nicole pled guilty in order to avoid the publicity that
would inevitably lead to punishment by the USFSA. The two years probation was
imposed by the court NOT the USFSA.
The argument that was made to the court to overturn the original YTA says that
because the matter became public, Nicole might be punished by the USFSA and
since the reason she pled guilty was to avoid that, it voids the original court
order. To quote:
"And it's also an exceptional case because while the statute says there
shouldn't be any civil ramifications or loss of rights or privileges,
I'm not so sure that the U.S. Figure Skating Association would feel
compelled to overlook this case that we have here. And if they were to
disqualify Nicole illegal, it would take her longer than probably the
three weeks to be able to qualify and get the disqualification removed
and harm would have been done. I'm also mindful of the fact that she
wouldn't have plead to Y.T.A. had she known these things would have
occurred"
So, it doesn't say that the judge agreed to the original YTA because he assumed
the USFSA would punish her. It says that he agreed so the USFSA wouldn't punish
her. The court record doesn't establish how many years the USFSA suspended her
for because they didn't suspend her.
Marie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
send e-mail to: hughes @ marie.org
visit my web site: http://www.marie.org/
Some things people have learned as they got older (part 8):
-I've learned that whenever I decide something with kindness, I usually make the
right decision. Age 66
-I've learned that even when I have pains, I don't have to be one. Age 82
-I've learned that I still have a lot to learn. Age 92
Come see my work at:
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TCAXEL
>The Tonya Harding Story was 15 minutes long-just the amount of time it
>deserved. And who could forget the brilliance of Tina Yothers as
>Tonya!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHrrrrghhhhh!!!
I missed it ! Tina Yothers, my all time guilty pleasure (as in ugly sitcom
children who don't improve with time) played Tonya????
THEO
Oscark24
double the 20ish ratings that the '88 and '92 Olympic skating coverage got.
That's huge, on par with the Super Bowl. Whenever you get that many eyeballs
glued to the set, you're going to get new fans, and those eyeballs would have
never been there without Tonya.
The SP is still the 6th highest rated TV event of all time. You can't buy that
kind of publicity! The economics of figure skating would be a whole lot
different without the Nancy "whack." The whack made Nancy the 10 million
dollar girl, and all it took was a bruised knee, and a few "why me's". Do you
really think that she wishes it never happened?
Marcusfam1
>> >reprehensible, however.
>>
What about your own ranting long posts and others ? LOL !
Harriet
MorryS
>The court record doesn't establish how many years the USFSA suspended her for
because they didn't suspend her.
I cannot understand where the fantasy regarding the USFSA punishing Nicole got
started. Let me state the facts.
1. At the time I was President of the USFSA.
2. There was never any discusion by USFSA Officers or the Executive Committee
regarding punishment to Nicole for any reason.
3. No governmental authority ever refered to the USFSA any action or details
regarding Nicole..
4. There is no factual basis for bringing the USFSA into this. Nicole has
always been in good standing with the Association.
Marcusfam1
>rarely
>are. LOL!
>
>
>Kaiju
>
Well, my posts are short and sweet and yours are so long and boring ! You go
on and on about some things that have been discussed too much already . Which
posts do you like best ? Mine or Ann's ??<G>
Harriet
Marcusfam1
>all this.
>
>But she likes gossip, eh? The more irresponsible, the better, apparent
>
>
>Kaiju
I got so disgusted with Nagano , I didn't post of a long time so missed alot of
posts. I'm sure Kaiju loves the gossip but won't admit it !<G>
Harriet
SKHazen
In article <19981229222750...@ng143.aol.com>,
osca...@aol.comjfdifhkd (Oscark24) writes:
>The whack made Nancy the 10 million
>dollar girl, and all it took was a bruised knee, and a few "why me's". Do
>you
>really think that she wishes it never happened?
Yup. I'm absolutely certain of it.
Steven
ghg...@my-dejanews.com
Ah Morry, cluttering up a good argument with all these annoying facts.
Fred
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Marcusfam1
>stupid. It is such a simple netiquette request that you so proudly and
>arrogantly flout.
>
>
>Kaiju
>
>--
>
>
>
>Before you think, think.
>
have not insulted you on a post yet . You broke the rules which you brag about
<G>. I'll let your post speak for itself .
Harriet
>
>
>
Kaiju
Marcusfam1 wrote:
>
> >At this juncture I can't decide whether you are merely immature and rude...or
> >stupid. It is such a simple netiquette request that you so proudly and
> >arrogantly flout.
> >
> >You must be having a tuff day , you just made your first insult to me as I
> have not insulted you on a post yet . You broke the rules which you brag about
> <G>. I'll let your post speak for itself .
<sigh> Harriet, I wouldn't say "boo" to you under normal circumstances. What
you seem to be incapable of grasping is that your insistence upon posting
about gossip in violation of the newsgroup Charter *is* insulting. Post as
often, as short or long, or as intense or lighthearted *about skating*, and
there is no problem. I'll even play along with you. Belligerently posting
about skaters' sex lives, dredging up old gossip and rumors, etc...it is like
waving a red flag that you want to be zinged. Badly. It's as though you like
negative attention, to be beat about your head with a 2x4.
I've watched people try to ask you this nicely, I've seen them beg you to
stop, I've seen them harass you, I've seen them laugh at you, I've seen them
make you the butt of their jokes, I've seen them be cruel to you. Don't you
get a clue, ever?
There are people here who are complete, irredeemable trolls. We expect them
to be pains in the butt. I'd like to think you aren't among them. Couldn't
you at least make an attempt to abide by the rules of *this* newsgroup, and
take your need to gossip to another newsgroup? Is that too much to ask of
you, to ask you to abide by the very simple rules here? Following rules
designed to minimize disruption in this community are burdensome for you for
some reason?
If it is, why? Why do you have such little respect for the other participants
here?
Marcusfam1
>make you the butt of their jokes, I've seen them be cruel to you.
Yeah , sure I see it and just go with the flow . You even called me rude and
stupid . I have yet to call anyone a name on a post and I know there are some
that don't agree with my posts . I can defend myself or stay quiet . I'm sure
all of us on here have been attacked once or many times for a posts on a
subject . Look at Ann's posts and all it generates . Ann is still posting on
here and insulting others . No one can take that away from her . I do have my
rights to post here and its a public forum . The question is do I have less
rights than you or others when it comes to our posts ?
Harriet