The Men of Skate Canada: Sandhu Rocks! The First Time I saw Feirrera Skate!
Rex
and Gannon are okay, but Paul Wylie is beyond dull.
Eman is too cool for me. Grand, divaesque, amazing to watch. Stretch,
extension, amazing flow and graceful as all get out. He truly deserved to
move up from seventh to first. Shelagh was right - the costume is a
little unfortunate, but he cleaned up his hair and overall look and the
program totally rocks. He's let us all down before, but I think he can do
it this season. And if I am wrong, book me a one-way ticket to St. Pierre
& Miquelon.
I hate to be an anti-Lindemann troll, but I thought the only reason he
got a bronze at Worlds was because it was in Germany. Stephane Lambiel
deserved the bronze over this kid. Even though he landed quads, his
skating was just so-so. His music sounded familiar. Was it from last
season?
Feirerra is good, if a little wooden. Reminds me of Eldredge - good
elements, but no emotion. Did not care for his music. I would have
placed him third behind Buttle. He stopped a couple of times. I thought
CoP was about flow and overall quality. Ben was good in some ways, but
seemed stiff and forced.
Van Der Perren is the best-dressed this season (totally replacing
Joubert, who, to me, was best-dressed last year), but his LP did not move
me at all - Lambiel is way superior to him and I am sorry Stephane had to
give up his spot in Skate Canada to Kevin. And Yagudin did Lawrence
of Arabia much better. Kevin's spins and footwork were not so hot. He
tried, but the overall effort seemed rather labored. Nothing like his
enjoyable Robin Hood LP from last year.
Jahnke was good, but without a quad, I dunno. I might have placed him
above Ben if he had a quad. Hated his costume, but loved his 'Tano Lutz,
something that few skaters have tried. He's better than Michael Weiss,
that's for sure. He is so graceful and agile.
Buttle. Robbed. I knew he would deliver this music, which is unusual and
interesting, just like the movie it is from. The fall on the quad was
unfortunate, but I would have placed him above Ben as well. Poor Jeff.
He's only a notch below Eman in terms of presentation and style. Other
than his mistakes, he so delivered this program, and I really question the
new judging system, since he was placed third. He must feel like John
Kerry right now.
I am taping the pairs and the ladies, so more later.
Ruth Lafler
"Rex" <Obero...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.11.09....@comcast.net...
> First of all, can I say I miss Dick Button's commentary? Carruthers
> I am taping the pairs and the ladies, so more later.
>
Thanks for reminding me this was on, Rexie! I turned it on just in time to
see Poykio and thought again how much she reminds me of Kwan. Not in the
same class, of course, but she's the same body type, she has similar
carriage, uses her arms in a similar way and uses a lot of Kwan moves (not
just the spiral, but her spin combos).
--Ruth
Chelsea Christenson
> First of all, can I say I miss Dick Button's commentary? Carruthers
> and Gannon are okay, but Paul Wylie is beyond dull.
I missed the men's competition but caught the pairs and ladies. Paul
got better as he went on. One thing I noticed: he's certainly more
generous than Dick and Peggy. His perspective is more like, this stuff
is hard, good for you for pulling it off. Dick would be demanding
cleaner landings. I kept hearing Peggy's voice in my head pointing out
the need for more extension and turnout.
Susie Wynne was, as usual, a gem. I'm surprised they didn't have Peter
Carruthers doing pairs coverage, though.
Sandra Loosemore
> Susie Wynne was, as usual, a gem. I'm surprised they didn't have
> Peter Carruthers doing pairs coverage, though.
I think Peter is the only one of the ESPN crew who is actually on-site
at the non-US Grand Prix competitions, so he can do the skater
interviews. ESPN didn't have a rinkside broadcast booth at Skate
Canada, and the other commentary is being done in the studio in the
US. Just given the logistical constraints of not having the full
production crew on-site, it's probably not possible for Peter to tape
commentary among his other responsibilities.
FWIW, Paul Wylie is a former national junior pairs champion so he is
perfectly qualified to discuss that discipline.
-Sandra
WIsil
>FWIW, Paul Wylie is a former national junior pairs champion so he is
>perfectly qualified to discuss that discipline.
Really? I had no idea. Good for him. Who was his partner? Any more details?
I loved his duet work with Katia back in 1997. Was thinking that he would make
a good pair partner for some exhibitions, granted the lifts would probably be
out of the question.
-Wendy
Skatfan
>Carruthers doing pairs coverage, though.
>
Apparently Peter is the only one traveling around for the GP servies this time.
Paul and Suzie add their stuff later, so Peter is doing all the interviews,
etc. instead.
ESPN is doing the whole thing on the cheap. In previous years, Dick and Peggy
would also do Skate Canada, and Peter and Suzie would do live coverage of the
other events,
instead of having them taped afterwards.
But it is a colossal waste of Peter's expertise. There is Suzie Wynn doing the
T&M segment
on her fall because they've got Peter running around the world. Not that she
did a bad
job, she did well, but I can only think it would have been more interesting for
a former
pairs skater to do the interviews.
Renee
Rex
If memory serves me, his partner was Dana Graham. I read this in "Inside
Edge", not exactly considered a skating bible in these here parts.
Leslie DesMarteau
and if you think he's tiny now... :) Actually, though, I'm mostly delurking just
because I really enjoyed Paul's commentary. I thought there was a helpful level of
technical detail- not so constant I couldn't just watch, but informative- I'd rather
know that someone had a problem because his arms were too loose as he went into the
jump rather than that someone suffered a "lapse in concentration," and to be told why
something is difficult instead of just being told that it is or it isn't. I also
thought he sounded like he was watching what he was commentating on (albeit on video
rather than live) but not like he was too excited by what he was seeing (for good or
ill) to pay attention to the details and evaluate them. I really enjoyed last
night's broadcast- stayed up way later than I should have, in fact.
Leslie
Rex wrote:
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leslie E. DesMarteau ldes...@rochester.rr.com
"All You Need Is Love"-- the Beatles
"You might as well ask me to prove that a fish is a fish!
(Ladies and) Gentlement, it just is!-- Tom Servo, MST3K
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laura M
Just to put my two cents in, I'm not a Peter Carruthers fan...as far
as his announcing goes. I thought Paul did a pretty good job and
Susie was really good. I miss Peggy & Dick, though. And I hate that
stupid ESPN update at the bottom of the screen. Especially the music.
It really interferes with the program.
Jeanne
commentary.
Same here, Paul's commentary is unique.
>I'd rather know that someone had a problem because his arms were too loose as
he went
>into the jump
He referred to the looseness as a radius problem. Interesting commentary to say
the least. Maybe he isn't a fan type commentator, but that's fine with me.
Jeanne
Jeanne
stuff from him last night. The spread eagle slide into hangman for starters.
Why didn't I make that trip to Halifax?! My ancestors are from that area.
There's always next year, I guess.
Jeanne
Jeanne Douglas
jmdj...@aol.com (Jeanne) wrote:
This is spooky. Not only do we have the same name, spelled the same way,
but my mother's side of the family's from Nova Scotia.
--
JD
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game, the American game.
It will repair our losses and be a blessing to us."-- Walt Whitman
Rex
> Thanks for reminding me this was on, Rexie! I turned it on just in time to
> see Poykio and thought again how much she reminds me of Kwan. Not in the
> same class, of course, but she's the same body type, she has similar
> carriage, uses her arms in a similar way and uses a lot of Kwan moves (not
> just the spiral, but her spin combos).
>
> --Ruth
I love it when you call me Rexie!;- D
Tonight I watched the ladies' and pairs. No ice dancers? I thought all
of the pairs were wonderful. I felt bad for both Canadian pairs teams,
they both seemed really bummed about their skates. Sale & Pelletier's
skates seem almost impossible to fill. Both teams are beautiful to watch,
but after seeing the Polish couple's amazing lifts and the overall
perfection of Shen and Zhao (sp?), I can totally understand why they
didn't make the podium. I read an article about Langlois & Archetto on
one skating BB (skatingforum.com or goldenskate.com) and Patrice actually
had to take a job bartending in order to help pay for he and Annabelle's
skating. That's tough - how much money does Skate Canada give its skaters
and what exactly is it based on? Is it similar to how the USFSA funds
their skaters? I have tended bar and those hours are a killer, which is
why I gave it up.
Phaneuf was good, very good. How wonderful it is to see a Canadian lady
deliver the goods. Totally love her crooked smile and
French-Canadian accent too. She is a total charmer. And she has grown a
lot physically. Definitely more filled out and womanly.
Underwhelmed by Yoshie Onda. I dunno, she seemed forced and awkward, but
she landed jumps when it counted. I think in a way, it's still all about
the jumps even with Code of Points. The same with Fumie Suguri. I would
hate to think that she has peaked. I think now it's all about Arakawa.
Ahhhhh, Julia Sebestyen. At Euros last year, I was like, "Wow, those
jumps, that costume. Wow." This year, it was, "Those jumps, THAT
costume?" I'd like to see her change it because to me at least, it
totally takes away from her program. I can't take the program seriously
because the getup looks really silly to me. I can't pay attention to
those springy jumps. She's so lucky Joan and Melissa Rivers don't do
costume commentary at the Grand Prix.
Did they chack Kostner's skate because of the fluff piece on the Russian
pairs or not? I kind of like her and wanted to see her. For some
reason, she reminds me of Bute, somewhat Gumbyesque, and I wanted to see
that. We saw all of the top six men and pairs, but only five of the
ladies.
Susana Pokyio I would have put ahead of Onda. She had a better
layback and better spins and footwork, at least I thought. Ruth,
you said that she reminded you of Kwan, and I totally agree. She's
athletically graceful just like Kwan. If only she hadn't made those
errors. It was still nice to see her on the podium anyways. And she gets
my vote for best-dressed lady at Skate Canada.
One thing that confuses me re: CoP. The men seem to get higher scores
than the ladies and pairs. Why is that. Eman gets like 204 points and
Phaneuf gets 159? Like I said, I think it is still about the jumps,
because a quad is worth more than a triple. I was under the impression
that CoP was supposed to be some great equalizer, but it's not. So if
Miki Ando finally lands a successful quad, will she break the 200 point
mark? What am I missing here?
Maybe it's just me, but Skate Canada did not have that "quality" feel it
had last year when it was on ABC. Maybe it was some of the camera angles
(I really noticed this during Sandhu's skate, not so many overhead shots
that more expensive cameras can do) and the star quality of the MIA Peggy
and Dick. Don't get me wrong, the commentators did a great job, and I have
always liked Susie Wynne and Peter Carruthers, but I miss dotty old Uncle
Dick going orgasmic over someone he likes or being catty with someone who
is having a not so good skate.
Shillelagh
"Jeanne" <jmdj...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041109202206...@mb-m24.aol.com...
Except that Skate Canada won't be in Halifax next year. Sorry.
Shelagh
Shillelagh
>
> Phaneuf was good, very good. How wonderful it is to see a Canadian lady
> deliver the goods. Totally love her crooked smile and
> French-Canadian accent too. She is a total charmer. And she has grown a
> lot physically. Definitely more filled out and womanly.
On the Canadian coverage, there was a fluff piece on her, and she commented
about her growth spurt - as she said, all arms and legs, and it took her a
while for her jumps to adjust to it. I'm crossing my fingers that she can
be consistent and competitive. At least I don't hold my breath when she
jumps, and she has much more speed than Jen Robinson ever had. I hope they
are working on her spirals.
> but I miss dotty old Uncle
> Dick going orgasmic over someone he likes or being catty with someone who
> is having a not so good skate.
I'm so glad I don't have to suffer through dotty old Tricky Dicky. It's
time he gave it up and they should put Susie Wynne in his place. Mind you,
in Canada, they seem to be having CTV and Rod Black (gack) covering the
comps taking place in Canada, and I guess CBC will be covering the GPF and
Worlds. It was good to see Debbi Wilkes and Tracy Wilson again, but Rod is
as bad as ever. I'm sure they did a lot of their commentary later, because
he was doing his usual telegraphing about placements. What a loser! The
best thing about Debbi and Tracy is the fact that they are certified
technical specialists and were extremely knowledgeable about the scoring. I
sure miss Dave Randolf as the roving interview guy. This new guy (don't
remember his name) sucks BIG time. I'm guessing CBC will Barbie and Paul as
commentators again. Love Paul, don't love Barbie.
Jeanne
>Except that Skate Canada won't be in Halifax next year. Sorry.
Of course! - I won't hold you responsible though.
Jeanne
Jeanne
>This is spooky. Not only do we have the same name, spelled the same way,
>but my mother's side of the family's from Nova Scotia.
Same here, my maternal side is from Nova Scotia. In fact my grandmother's
maiden name, Pothier, is where Joubert trains, Pothier, France.
Also, my great grandfather used to build skates for the people in his village.
I bet one of your relatives skated in his skates! That's if they skated. :)
Jeanne
Pat C
wrote:
>Phaneuf was good, very good. How wonderful it is to see a Canadian lady
>deliver the goods. Totally love her crooked smile and
>French-Canadian accent too. She is a total charmer. And she has grown a
>lot physically. Definitely more filled out and womanly.
Yes she is. :) We have some ladies that are watchable now. I
haven't heard what Rochette is up to. Cdn Nats will be interesting
this year if every one is healthy.
>Underwhelmed by Yoshie Onda. I dunno, she seemed forced and awkward, but
>she landed jumps when it counted. I think in a way, it's still all about
>the jumps even with Code of Points. The same with Fumie Suguri. I would
>hate to think that she has peaked. I think now it's all about Arakawa.
Ando..........Ando.......don't forget her. :) Onda did an awesome
sp. And she has come a long way. The coaching change was a good one.
Fumie is hurt. She should have taken care of her ankle injuries long
before she did I think. The loop and the flip give her major
problems. And Divakawa? She's the one to beat.
>Ahhhhh, Julia Sebestyen. At Euros last year, I was like, "Wow, those
>jumps, that costume. Wow." This year, it was, "Those jumps, THAT
>costume?" I'd like to see her change it because to me at least, it
>totally takes away from her program. I can't take the program seriously
>because the getup looks really silly to me. I can't pay attention to
>those springy jumps. She's so lucky Joan and Melissa Rivers don't do
>costume commentary at the Grand Prix.
Eh? You don't like Tarasova's costuming version of Techno carmen? ;)
>Did they chack Kostner's skate because of the fluff piece on the Russian
>pairs or not? I kind of like her and wanted to see her. For some
>reason, she reminds me of Bute, somewhat Gumbyesque, and I wanted to see
>that. We saw all of the top six men and pairs, but only five of the
>ladies.
She did ok. (shrug) Nothing stands out about her this year. She is
fast tho.........
>Susana Pokyio I would have put ahead of Onda. She had a better
>layback and better spins and footwork, at least I thought. Ruth,
>you said that she reminded you of Kwan, and I totally agree. She's
>athletically graceful just like Kwan. If only she hadn't made those
>errors. It was still nice to see her on the podium anyways. And she gets
>my vote for best-dressed lady at Skate Canada.
You know - cameras change the colors of things. The skater who looked
awesome in person was Fumie.
>One thing that confuses me re: CoP. The men seem to get higher scores
>than the ladies and pairs. Why is that. Eman gets like 204 points and
>Phaneuf gets 159? Like I said, I think it is still about the jumps,
>because a quad is worth more than a triple. I was under the impression
>that CoP was supposed to be some great equalizer, but it's not. So if
>Miki Ando finally lands a successful quad, will she break the 200 point
>mark? What am I missing here?
It's sexist. Men can skate faster. And in a lot of cases, they just
have better edges - the Japanese women being the exception, except
they usually flutz or lip. ;) Women need to work on their stroking.
I loved it when Kwan and Slute were competiing head on. Both have
awesome stroking. Maximum coverage with minimum effort.
>Maybe it's just me, but Skate Canada did not have that "quality" feel it
>had last year when it was on ABC. Maybe it was some of the camera angles
>(I really noticed this during Sandhu's skate, not so many overhead shots
>that more expensive cameras can do) and the star quality of the MIA Peggy
>and Dick. Don't get me wrong, the commentators did a great job, and I have
>always liked Susie Wynne and Peter Carruthers, but I miss dotty old Uncle
>Dick going orgasmic over someone he likes or being catty with someone who
>is having a not so good skate.
Halifax was very low key. And it's a great venue, very well
organized. Plus a lot of the *big* names dropped out. So we got to
see quite a few skaters that might not have been there otherwise. And
Dick and Peggy? Well you're entitled to your opinion..............;)
Pat C
Oh, and you should have seen some of the ice dancers costumes. Back
to the neon colors. Oy..........
WIsil
>I loved it when Kwan and Slute were competiing head on. Both have
>awesome stroking. Maximum coverage with minimum effort.
I have to disagree here. I do think that Kwan makes stroking look effortless,
but I never got that feeling from Slute. She always looked like she was
"pumping" when she skated. Sure, she got some speed and some distance, but it
always looked very labored to me. Different strokes, I guess (ha! lol!)
-Wendy
Mimi
disfavor. The Glenn Miller montage for Feirera seemed really good for
skating, but the choreography didn't match the music. Passages that called
for long swooping curves got footwork instead, and so on. Buttle has a
really outgoing personality; he's a showman. So why is he skating this
really contained and unexpressive program?
I thought Ryan Jahnke's program was wonderful. Not so fond of the costume.
But I thought he was underscored. Anybody there? What was your impression?
Sandhu is one of those skaters I love to watch no matter how well he's
skating. He just moves so well.
The pairs' programs were all very good, especially for so early in the
season.
Looking forward to seeing the NHK,
Marianne
Fiona McQuarrie
: It was good to see Debbi Wilkes and Tracy Wilson again, but Rod is
: as bad as ever. I'm sure they did a lot of their commentary later, because
: he was doing his usual telegraphing about placements. What a loser!
I'm just waiting with baited breath for the day he says "So and so will
finish here", and the Sekret Computer randomly selects placements that
actually make So-and-So finish somewhere else. I think you will be able to
hear me laughing clear across Canada when that happens.
: The
: best thing about Debbi and Tracy is the fact that they are certified
: technical specialists and were extremely knowledgeable about the scoring.
But I still have a problem with them working for the ISU *and* being
supposedly objective commentators at ISU-run events.
I
: sure miss Dave Randolf as the roving interview guy. This new guy (don't
: remember his name) sucks BIG time.
Vic Rauter - I think they had to find something else for him to do when
CBC took the curling coverage away from CTV. He was an excellent curling
commentator, but he seems really lost at skating. I think the very first
interview he did at Skate Canada with one of the pairs, the guy
said "We have worked really hard on our spins" and some other stuff, and
poor Vic turned to the
woman and said "I understand you've been working on your spins". Oh
dear....
Fiona
Fiona McQuarrie
: Whoever it was, who choreographed for Buttle and Feirrera did them both a
: skating, but the choreography didn't match the music. Passages that called
: for long swooping curves got footwork instead, and so on. Buttle has a
: really outgoing personality; he's a showman. So why is he skating this
: really contained and unexpressive program?
I agree with your comments on Ferreira, but I disagree with what you say
about Buttle. He's an excellent interpreter of all kinds of music
(including showy music), and this program is really challenging while
showing off his ability to connect with the audience no matter what the
style of music. I don't think many other of the top men could carry off
that music convincingly - Johnny Weir, maybe, but no one else.
: Sandhu is one of those skaters I love to watch no matter how well he's
: skating. He just moves so well.
I'm sorry he decided to use that same CD-random-skipping technocrap for
his short program as he did for his long program last year, but I have to
say I really like his long program this year. It's very nicely put
together and it really suits him. Now if he could just do something about
the knife-slash cuts on the top....
Fiona
Shillelagh
"Fiona McQuarrie" <mcqu...@sfu.ca> wrote in message
news:cmtr8k$86b$2...@morgoth.sfu.ca...
> Mimi <joh...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> : Whoever it was, who choreographed for Buttle and Feirrera did them both
a
> : disfavor. The Glenn Miller montage for Feirera seemed really good for
> : skating, but the choreography didn't match the music. Passages that
called
> : for long swooping curves got footwork instead, and so on. Buttle has a
> : really outgoing personality; he's a showman. So why is he skating this
> : really contained and unexpressive program?
>
> I agree with your comments on Ferreira, but I disagree with what you say
> about Buttle. He's an excellent interpreter of all kinds of music
> (including showy music), and this program is really challenging while
> showing off his ability to connect with the audience no matter what the
> style of music. I don't think many other of the top men could carry off
> that music convincingly - Johnny Weir, maybe, but no one else.
I'm with you Fiona on Buttle. His LP is fabulous, and I can't wait to see
it with a little more mileage on it. Did you see the fab Ina Bauer he did
in his exhibition program?? From one end of the rink to the other, and
around the corner too. Amazing.
> : Sandhu is one of those skaters I love to watch no matter how well he's
> : skating. He just moves so well.
>
> I'm sorry he decided to use that same CD-random-skipping technocrap for
> his short program as he did for his long program last year, but I have to
> say I really like his long program this year. It's very nicely put
> together and it really suits him. Now if he could just do something about
> the knife-slash cuts on the top....
>
> Fiona
His SP costume (in a word) STINKS. And, I'm not fond of his chiffon hankie
LP costume either. Other than that, I love it when he skates well. His
exhibition program was fab. Did you see it?
Shelagh.
Fiona McQuarrie
: His SP costume (in a word) STINKS. And, I'm not fond of his chiffon hankie
: LP costume either. Other than that, I love it when he skates well. His
: exhibition program was fab. Did you see it?
Nooo....I'm working my way out from under a big pile of marking, so TV
viewing has sort of been neglected of late.
Cheers, Fiona
Jeanne Douglas
jmdj...@aol.com (Jeanne) wrote:
Wouldn't be at all surprised. Mom & her brothers and her parents moved
to BC when she was 1 so I've never met any of my NS relatives. There
have got to be Whites and McLains left around there.
The Other Jeanne
Trish O'Brien
"Shillelagh" <me...@cat.howl> wrote in message
news:1rhkd.5130$wj7....@news1.mts.net...
Has next year's location been announced yet?
Trish
Pat C
No.
Pat C
Mimi
"Shillelagh" <me...@cat.howl> wrote in message
>
> I'm with you Fiona on Buttle. His LP is fabulous, and I can't wait to see
> it with a little more mileage on it. Did you see the fab Ina Bauer he did
> in his exhibition program?? From one end of the rink to the other, and
> around the corner too. Amazing.
>
Boy, I'd really like to see that. That's what we miss with COP. Positions
held for a long time with only slight variations. Like Michelle's spiral.
Having to pack in lots of elements also limits skating music to the more
frenetic. Gonna be more programs with compilations of music cuts.
Marianne
Rex
> Boy, I'd really like to see that. That's what we miss with COP. Positions
> held for a long time with only slight variations. Like Michelle's spiral.
> Having to pack in lots of elements also limits skating music to the more
> frenetic. Gonna be more programs with compilations of music cuts.
>
> Marianne
I sense a business, a gimmickyness, that I haven't seen before this new
scoring system, and that I don't really like. I especially noticed this
in several of the ladies' and mens' programs.
Shillelagh
Hmmm..... I'd rather see more of the in-betweens than all the jumps we saw
before. I realize they are all still doing lots of jumps, but are now
forced to do more than skate from one end of the ice to the other and jump.
I get pretty tired of watching the jumping beans (Plushenko, Li), and would
love to see more of the skaters like Sandhu, Buttle, Jahnke(sp?) and Weir.
As for busy-ness, I think it will take a bit of time for the choreographers
to become accustomed to what is required, yet still make a program that will
be exciting to watch (and skate).
Shelagh
Trudi Marrapodi
<me...@cat.howl> wrote:
I'm agreeing with you. What I have seen at Skate America and what I was
able to watch on ESPN of Skate Canada is some interesting stuff happening
in the "in-betweens" of skating. There are people doing camel spins on
outside edges. People really finishing off spins of all kinds. Ladies
doing back inside spirals in the spiral sequence. To me, this is not a bad
thing.
There also seems to be more variety in some of the choreography.
Especially at Skate Canada, I was impressed by some of the off-the-wall
character and modern-dance inspired moves I felt I was seeing from some of
the skaters. It was not all generic
strong-man-skating-to-bombastic-movie-theme in the men's event, for
example. People put their bodies in interesting positions and worked on
creating something different. Considering how bad the sound and some of
the camerawork was from Skate Canada, it was at least nice to see some
variety in the actual skating.
Sure, the push to do "tougher stuff" is already creating its own cliches.
(Rare, for example, was the pair team at Skate America that didn't spend
most of the spiral sequence with either one partner or the other gripping
a skate blade.) But still, it does show signs of giving skaters a really,
really good reason to do something besides go out there and jump their
brains out...and that was badly, badly needed.
Is some of this due to CoP? No doubt. Does that mean I'm fully on board
with CoP? Not necessarily. I no longer feel like drop-kicking it out the
window, as I have seen ways that it can help shake up skating a bit and
prevent it from being "the same old same old" year after year. But to my
mind, it still needs refinement, and it still needs to get rid of the
elements of a) randomness and b) secrecy in order to be a true judging
system and not just a lottery in which winners are chosen by luck of the
draw. And yes, the issue of having technical specialists who "have a dog
in the fight," or may be tempted to "stick it to the competition," so to
speak (as in the case of Sergei Ponomarenko at Skate America) needs to be
addressed, and fast. This was not the last time it will come up. Not in
the tiny world of skating.
--
Trudi
one of many Ohioans who appreciates the Cleveland Clinic
Ellyn Kestnbaum
> One thing that confuses me re: CoP. The men seem to get higher scores
> than the ladies and pairs. Why is that. Eman gets like 204 points and
> Phaneuf gets 159? Like I said, I think it is still about the jumps,
> because a quad is worth more than a triple. I was under the impression
> that CoP was supposed to be some great equalizer, but it's not. So if
> Miki Ando finally lands a successful quad, will she break the 200 point
> mark? What am I missing here?
Men skate for 4 1/2 minutes in the long program, ladies only for 4.
Men are allowed to do 8 jump passes in the long program, ladies only
7. Men are more likely to do harder jumps in the long, and also they
are allowed to do harder jumps (quads, and triple axel for the solo
axel) in the short program.
Therefore the men's element scores are going to be higher on average
than the women's.
And so the code of points devisers have decided that men's component
scores should be multipled by 1.0 in the short program and 2.0 in the
long but ladies' only by 0.8 and 1.6, respectively, to keep the
component scores approximately equal to the element scores.
Doria
>
------------------
I thought Paul's commentary was excellent. I hope ESPN keeps him
throughout the GP series and into the final. He'd be a good Dickie
replacement when Uncle Dick retires.
Doria
Rex
> I'm agreeing with you. What I have seen at Skate America and what I was
> able to watch on ESPN of Skate Canada is some interesting stuff happening
> in the "in-betweens" of skating. There are people doing camel spins on
> outside edges. People really finishing off spins of all kinds. Ladies
> doing back inside spirals in the spiral sequence. To me, this is not a bad
> thing.
But you have to admit some of the skaters are struggling with it. The
more challenging entries and exits in and out of jumps are making some
skaters falter a bit. But like you said, more or less, all will have to
step up to the plate.
> There also seems to be more variety in some of the choreography.
> Especially at Skate Canada, I was impressed by some of the off-the-wall
> character and modern-dance inspired moves I felt I was seeing from some of
> the skaters. It was not all generic
> strong-man-skating-to-bombastic-movie-theme in the men's event, for
> example. People put their bodies in interesting positions and worked on
> creating something different. Considering how bad the sound and some of
> the camerawork was from Skate Canada, it was at least nice to see some
> variety in the actual skating.
There has been little or no overhead camera shots. I hope this doesn't
mean the end of seeing Kwan's spirals from the front.
Trudi Marrapodi
<Obero...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:54:57 +0100, Trudi Marrapodi wrote:
>
>
> > I'm agreeing with you. What I have seen at Skate America and what I was
> > able to watch on ESPN of Skate Canada is some interesting stuff happening
> > in the "in-betweens" of skating. There are people doing camel spins on
> > outside edges. People really finishing off spins of all kinds. Ladies
> > doing back inside spirals in the spiral sequence. To me, this is not a bad
> > thing.
>
> But you have to admit some of the skaters are struggling with it. The
> more challenging entries and exits in and out of jumps are making some
> skaters falter a bit. But like you said, more or less, all will have to
> step up to the plate.
Sure they are. It's like what happens when someone lands a new jump and
everyone else wants to get on the bandwagon. I am reminded of the 1990
ladies' event at Euros, which CBS only showed a few seconds' worth of,
telling us it was so bad that they didn't even want to show it to us,
replete with fall after fall, apparently because every woman in Europe was
trying to compete with '89 world champion Midori Ito and her triple axel.
> > There also seems to be more variety in some of the choreography.
> > Especially at Skate Canada, I was impressed by some of the off-the-wall
> > character and modern-dance inspired moves I felt I was seeing from some of
> > the skaters. It was not all generic
> > strong-man-skating-to-bombastic-movie-theme in the men's event, for
> > example. People put their bodies in interesting positions and worked on
> > creating something different. Considering how bad the sound and some of
> > the camerawork was from Skate Canada, it was at least nice to see some
> > variety in the actual skating.
>
> There has been little or no overhead camera shots. I hope this doesn't
> mean the end of seeing Kwan's spirals from the front.
Well, there have been a few shots of skaters at the boards that were a bit
more "in your face" (or in HIS face) than were comfortable. And I just
love it when the commentator says "Just look at their footwork!" (I am
thinking of the reruns of Belbin & Agosto's straight-line free dance
sequence here, IIRC) and ALL THE CAMERA SHOWS IS THEIR TORSOS, ARMS AND
HEADS!
--
Trudi
in the home of the official Crayola "Rock and Roll Raspberry" state
Rex
>> There has been little or no overhead camera shots. I hope this doesn't
>> mean the end of seeing Kwan's spirals from the front.
>
> Well, there have been a few shots of skaters at the boards that were a bit
> more "in your face" (or in HIS face) than were comfortable. And I just
> love it when the commentator says "Just look at their footwork!" (I am
> thinking of the reruns of Belbin & Agosto's straight-line free dance
> sequence here, IIRC) and ALL THE CAMERA SHOWS IS THEIR TORSOS, ARMS AND
> HEADS!
Like during Sandhu's FS at Skate Canada - I thought he was gonna do a LuLu
'til I realized it was the camera.
noone
>
> Just to put my two cents in, I'm not a Peter Carruthers fan...as far
> as his announcing goes. I thought Paul did a pretty good job and
> Susie was really good. I miss Peggy & Dick, though. And I hate that
> stupid ESPN update at the bottom of the screen. Especially the music.
> It really interferes with the program.
Put a piece of low adhesive tape across the bottom of the screen and no
more crawl. ESPN squeezes the picture anyway so you don't miss
anything. I keep mine there to prevent all crawls.
Trudi Marrapodi
One thing I noticed this past time is that ESPN seems to be shrinking the
*sides* of the image now instead of just compressing it from top to
bottom. That's nice; it retains the scale of the image much better.