AB Players
Stephen
Rick, very little actual discussion here on actual player performance.
Some random thoughts;
Is Mils time up? Secure solid etc but the spark has gone.
Do you give Zac another go, at times positively possum like, but worth
another shot.
The midfield still the best in the business.
Weepu was not the standout we hoped for starting. Very little sign of his
great vision.
If Adam Thomson misses another tackle like the Samo one, shoot him.
Ali had a barnstorming game, getting back to his best.
Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
The front row was excellent, the Aussie scrum under real pressure in the 2nd
half. Woodcock getting match fit is a great sign.
Cheers
Stephen
Geoff Muldoon
> If Adam Thomson misses another tackle like the Samo one, shoot him.
I think the injury that eventually forced him off had a fair bit to do
with that.
> Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
I thought that Whitelock went to 8 with Vito at 6?
GM
Matua
"Geoff Muldoon" <geoff....@trap.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.28c573e...@news.x-privat.org...
Hey piggy We'll you thought wrong then didn't you?
Shows how much you know about rugby mm?
You should be sited!!!
Greig Blanchett
Keep Mils. We need the experience and he can't have two bad ones in a
row. Needs more game time.
Zac needs to get "injured" for the good of the team, and bring back
Hosea Gear or Siti Sivivatu.
Don't like starting with Weepu. I prefer they start with Cowan and Weepu
comes on as a super sub later.
Thomson can take one for the team. Too bad, how sad. Bring on Matt Todd.
We've got plenty of blind side cover, as shown.
I thought Ali Williams had another mediocre game. He's doing an Isaac
Ross. He needs to get stuck in to the hard graft. He's not Zinzan Brooke
and he never will be, despite what he thinks.
Woodcock is a liability. The scrum is less than 10% of the game, and in
the other 90%, Woodcock was not his old self. Crockett was all over the
shop when he played - Woodcock also needs to get "injured" for the sake
of the team.
On a more general note, will they please just get rid of Sonny Bill.
What a fucking waste of a perfectly good backline space. It's obvious as
hell he's off back to leeg as soon as the RWC is over - can't they just
show him the door now and give his slot to someone more deserving?
--
greig
timo
caspar milquetoast
> Apart from the whinge fest from all and sundry, and a decent analysis from
> Rick, very little actual discussion here on actual player performance.
>
> Some random thoughts;
>
> Is Mils time up? Secure solid etc but the spark has gone.
I haven't felt inspired by him for some time. Love to Dagg get a shot.
> Do you give Zac another go, at times positively possum like, but worth
> another shot.
I prefer Corey Jane, although his form hasn't been that great. Give them
time during the pool games and see who shines.
> The midfield still the best in the business.
> Weepu was not the standout we hoped for starting. Very little sign of his
> great vision.
Not ideal behind a slow-motion pack with a disrupoted loose trio. Cowna
looking the better choice this year.
> If Adam Thomson misses another tackle like the Samo one, shoot him.
He's gone.
> Ali had a barnstorming game, getting back to his best.
> Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
> The front row was excellent, the Aussie scrum under real pressure in the 2nd
> half. Woodcock getting match fit is a great sign.
If the team can see its way to playing their best game for the three
finals, no one will touch them.
There is absolutely no guarantee of that though. Their lack of
consistency and composure has been very disappointing.
Bolix
Couldnt agree more - Weepu is an impact player - Cowan to start.
>
> Thomson can take one for the team. Too bad, how sad. Bring on Matt Todd.
> We've got plenty of blind side cover, as shown.
Todd at 7 Mccaw 8 - Kiano 6 - I would be happy with that
>
> I thought Ali Williams had another mediocre game. He's doing an Isaac
> Ross. He needs to get stuck in to the hard graft. He's not Zinzan Brooke
> and he never will be, despite what he thinks.
>
> Woodcock is a liability. The scrum is less than 10% of the game, and in
> the other 90%, Woodcock was not his old self. Crockett was all over the
> shop when he played - Woodcock also needs to get "injured" for the sake
> of the team.
Yeah our scrum had more reverse gears than an italian tank the last time
crocket started a test
>
> On a more general note, will they please just get rid of Sonny Bill.
> What a fucking waste of a perfectly good backline space. It's obvious as
> hell he's off back to leeg as soon as the RWC is over - can't they just
> show him the door now and give his slot to someone more deserving?
>
Fruen?
Bolix
Andrew Dunford
"Greig Blanchett" <gre...@nzrfu.com> wrote in message
news:20B6q.168827$7C3.1...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
> On 29/08/2011 10:37 a.m., Stephen wrote:
>> Apart from the whinge fest from all and sundry, and a decent analysis
>> from
>> Rick, very little actual discussion here on actual player performance.
>>
>> Some random thoughts;
>>
>> Is Mils time up? Secure solid etc but the spark has gone.
>> Do you give Zac another go, at times positively possum like, but worth
>> another shot.
>> The midfield still the best in the business.
>> Weepu was not the standout we hoped for starting. Very little sign of his
>> great vision.
>> If Adam Thomson misses another tackle like the Samo one, shoot him.
>> Ali had a barnstorming game, getting back to his best.
>> Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
>> The front row was excellent, the Aussie scrum under real pressure in the
>> 2nd
>> half. Woodcock getting match fit is a great sign.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Stephen
>>
>>
>>
>
> Keep Mils. We need the experience and he can't have two bad ones in a row.
> Needs more game time.
I think the Mils spark left the building some time ago and will not return.
<snip>
> On a more general note, will they please just get rid of Sonny Bill. What
> a fucking waste of a perfectly good backline space. It's obvious as hell
> he's off back to leeg as soon as the RWC is over - can't they just show
> him the door now and give his slot to someone more deserving?
Agree with all that, but I think he's not allowed to sign for the NRL until
2013, which leaves a year either at the Waratahs or perhaps back in France.
Andrew
Matua
"Bolix" <bo...@bolix.com> wrote in message
news:5ZB6q.1295$NR2...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
Yes hear hear, don't rate SBW but have a lot of time for Fruen and
Maitland! but Fruen is a centre and we also have Kahui.
Aidan H
I thought he had the best game I've seen from him for a while.
Considering ...
> Do you give Zac another go, at times positively possum like, but worth
> another shot.
... Guilford is a liability, then I think Dagg to wing is worth a
crack. He has real
x-factor and can at least catch the bloody pill. We'd have three
fullbacks, no
worries about an aerial bombardment then.
> The midfield still the best in the business.
I've not been the biggest fan of Nonu in the past, but by gum he's the
business
at the moment. Double plus good.
> Weepu was not the standout we hoped for starting. Very little sign of his
> great vision.
And he is a lazy SOB. How many times is he missing from the back of
rucks.
Runs too much before passing, without being the threat running that
Genia is.
Genia is the best halfback going around at the moment.
> Ali had a barnstorming game, getting back to his best.
The lineout was very effective, but the Wallabies didn't seem to be
that
interested in contesting it.
The forwards were poor in the first half. When the ABs were inside the
Aus
22 and hot on attack they bloody nearly lost the ball for lack of
forwards to
secure possession. There was a clutch of the buggers swanning out on
the
wing waiting to score a try, which was snuffed out by brilliant
defending from
Anthony Fainga'a.
> Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
He did ok. Thankful that Kaino will be back, he is like granite.
Hate to say it, but until he laid on the miracle ball for Smith's try
Carter had
been pretty ordinary. Standing deep in the pocket, aimless kicks. I
don't
think he should be replaced, god forbid, but this was not up to his
normal
peerless standard.
JohnO
> On 29/08/2011 10:37 a.m., Stephen wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Apart from the whinge fest from all and sundry, and a decent analysis from
> > Rick, very little actual discussion here on actual player performance.
>
> > Some random thoughts;
>
> > Is Mils time up? Secure solid etc but the spark has gone.
> > Do you give Zac another go, at times positively possum like, but worth
> > another shot.
> > The midfield still the best in the business.
> > Weepu was not the standout we hoped for starting. Very little sign of his
> > great vision.
> > If Adam Thomson misses another tackle like the Samo one, shoot him.
> > Ali had a barnstorming game, getting back to his best.
> > Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
> > The front row was excellent, the Aussie scrum under real pressure in the 2nd
> > half. Woodcock getting match fit is a great sign.
>
> > Cheers
> > Stephen
>
> Keep Mils. We need the experience and he can't have two bad ones in a
> row. Needs more game time.
What exactly did he do wrong anyway?
>
> Zac needs to get "injured" for the good of the team, and bring back
> Hosea Gear or Siti Sivivatu.
Sivi.
>
> Don't like starting with Weepu. I prefer they start with Cowan and Weepu
> comes on as a super sub later.
Yep. Bet that's how it will play out too.
>
> Thomson can take one for the team. Too bad, how sad. Bring on Matt Todd.
> We've got plenty of blind side cover, as shown.
He's injured - doubt he will make the RWC.
>
> I thought Ali Williams had another mediocre game. He's doing an Isaac
> Ross. He needs to get stuck in to the hard graft. He's not Zinzan Brooke
> and he never will be, despite what he thinks.
Did you watch? He was very involved.
>
> Woodcock is a liability. The scrum is less than 10% of the game, and in
> the other 90%, Woodcock was not his old self. Crockett was all over the
> shop when he played - Woodcock also needs to get "injured" for the sake
> of the team.
>
> On a more general note, will they please just get rid of Sonny Bill.
> What a fucking waste of a perfectly good backline space. It's obvious as
> hell he's off back to leeg as soon as the RWC is over - can't they just
> show him the door now and give his slot to someone more deserving?
Agreed. Plenty of potential but he's got serious form for being an
untrustworthy prick when it comes to sticking to a deal.
>
> --
> greig
JohnO
> Apart from the whinge fest from all and sundry, and a decent analysis from
> Rick, very little actual discussion here on actual player performance.
>
> Some random thoughts;
>
> Is Mils time up? Secure solid etc but the spark has gone.
> Do you give Zac another go, at times positively possum like, but worth
> another shot.
> The midfield still the best in the business.
> Weepu was not the standout we hoped for starting. Very little sign of his
> great vision.
> If Adam Thomson misses another tackle like the Samo one, shoot him.
His arm was rooted so I'll cut him some slack for that. Not usually a
bad tackler.
Andrew Dunford
"Aidan H" <abfa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e2d17112-2489-48ef...@e34g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Carter is now taking longer to get rid of the ball when kicking out of
defence. More of a charge-down target than was previously the case.
Andrew
Andrew Dunford
"Geoff Muldoon" <geoff....@trap.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.28c573e...@news.x-privat.org...
No. Vito went in at 8 to replace Read and stayed there for the rest of the
match. On Thomson's departure Whitelock and Williams took a little while to
decide who should go to blindside but Whitelock did it in the second half.
Andrew
Geoff Muldoon
> >> Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
> >
> > I thought that Whitelock went to 8 with Vito at 6?
>
> No. Vito went in at 8 to replace Read and stayed there for the rest of the
> match. On Thomson's departure Whitelock and Williams took a little while to
> decide who should go to blindside but Whitelock did it in the second half.
Thanks, I stand corrected. I clearly recall having seen a reserve
number at blindside in at least one scrum (and its not like there were
lots of them), must have been Williams not Vito.
GM
Aidan H
> "Aidan H" <abfan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e2d17112-2489-48ef...@e34g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> > Hate to say it, but until he laid on the miracle ball for Smith's try
> > Carter had
> > been pretty ordinary. Standing deep in the pocket, aimless kicks. I
> > don't
> > think he should be replaced, god forbid, but this was not up to his
> > normal
> > peerless standard.
>
> Carter is now taking longer to get rid of the ball when kicking out of
> defence. More of a charge-down target than was previously the case.
How much of that is down to the service he is getting? He pulled in at
least one wild one from Weepu that I can recall.
JohnO
You guys are fucking nuts. Todd was *ok* at S15 level and you'd risk
putting him straight into one of the more influential positions at the
RWC with zero test experience?
Osbourne Ruddock
news:j3efu8$mh5$1...@dont-email.me:
> Apart from the whinge fest from all and sundry, and a decent analysis
> from Rick, very little actual discussion here on actual player
> performance.
>
> Some random thoughts;
>
> Is Mils time up? Secure solid etc but the spark has gone.
This is a really tough one. Mils hasn't done anything particularly wrong
but it's damn tempting to get Dagg in from the off in the pool games.
He'd get match fitness, chance to score some tries, and a tough workout
against the French. Mils is in the leadership group though and, after
the last 2 weeks, we need all the leaders on the field that we can get.
> Do you give Zac another go, at times positively possum like, but worth
> another shot.
Not too bothered, he's only a wing after all. As a Wgtn supporter I'd
have preferred to have Gear and I suspect Henry might feel the same this
week but it's too late now. Should be mentioned that Jane struggled to
show any form in this game as well.
Incidentally, Cory Jane's missus is called Amie. The All Blacks
shouldn't have players who sound like they live next door to Barney the
Dinosaur.
> The midfield still the best in the business.
> Weepu was not the standout we hoped for starting. Very little sign of
> his great vision.
Cowan would have done no better than Piri under that 1st half Aussie
avalanche IMO. I thought Weepu did ok, and felt we lost some of our edge
when he went off. I'm fairly relaxed about starting with Cowan at the
RWC though as Weepu was a great impact player in the 1st 2 tests this
year.
> If Adam Thomson misses another tackle like the Samo one, shoot him.
He's goneburger by the sound of it. So who's the backup No 6? Can Vito
play 6 & 8? After an initial spilled ball I think VV had a pretty good
game, good physical presence, anchored the scrum took a couple of
lineout balls and had decent go forward. Couldn't ask for too much more.
> Ali had a barnstorming game, getting back to his best.
Yes, I thought it was his best run out since coming back into the side.
Had 1 good break up the middle.
> Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
> The front row was excellent, the Aussie scrum under real pressure in
> the 2nd half. Woodcock getting match fit is a great sign.
Scrum and lineout were good but Mealamu looked old and tired to me. Had
no show for the Genia try and try-break. Considering he's in partly for
his mobile game he looked about as mobile as a Hummer in a medieval side
street.
I think Ted has some work on getting the freshness back in this team. At
the very least they looked tired and off the pace, hopefully it's a
temporary think and not some wider malaise.
--
Cheers, Os
Matua
Get off the Sniffer piggy!
Greig Blanchett
Fruen played wing for Wellington, and was rather good.
--
greig
Andrew Dunford
"Greig Blanchett" <gre...@nzrfu.com> wrote in message
news:sZF6q.147021$fD6....@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
Depends on the benchmark - if Toeava can play wing then so could Neemia
Tialata.
Fruean has always been a centre and not really quick enough to be a wing -
did play there a bit for Wellington but didn't achieve a great deal.
Andrew
mg
Yes, Israel Dagg must play! Mils has been great but he's no longer the
attacking weapon he used to be. After watching the reply he's not even
that good in defence, he was AWOL for when Samo broke through and
again when Genia got through.
I'd start Cowan and bring Weepu on at 55mins. I can't fault the
midfield but I'd have Gear instead of Guildford any day, Jane is ok -
he didn't get a lot of ball. The backline became ineffective when Read
and Thomson got injured, that's where it was lost, Kaino missed badly!
As Ted and Richie have said the All Blacks were asleep in the first
half, I remember thinking it's all over before half time. Impressive
comeback in the second half but a bridge to far. The All Blacks need
to take copy the Wallabies and overdose on caffeine pills and pythons
before kick off.
kev or lou
> If the team can see its way to playing their best game for the three
> finals, no one will touch them.
Except France.
There is something about France that can elevate their play above that
of NZ and beat them even when they're playing at their best. If you look
at their players individually, alot of them are truly world class, and
arguably better than many of NZ's.
> There is absolutely no guarantee of that though. Their lack of
> consistency and composure has been very disappointing.
Which is exactly why France suck so much of the time. That and their
coaches being complete nutjobs. What other country has a revolving door
policy for selection? You think the AB's game versus Oz was bad, you
should see how many players have played for France this year, and
supposedly as first choice. It's something like 80 which is pure
madness. There is no consistency in selection whatsoever.
I'm hoping Saint Andre will change that when he comes in after the WC.
Mentalguy2k8
"kev or lou" <lp005...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZpQ6q.134196$OV1....@newsfe29.ams2...
> On 29/08/2011 01:44, caspar milquetoast wrote:
>
>> If the team can see its way to playing their best game for the three
>> finals, no one will touch them.
>
> Except France.
>
> There is something about France that can elevate their play above that of
> NZ and beat them even when they're playing at their best. If you look at
> their players individually, alot of them are truly world class, and
> arguably better than many of NZ's.
They can beat NZ yet they can't go on to beat England in the RWC. If you
were to predict NZ v England, most people would favour NZ 99 times out of
100. I think the French are far more susceptible to mental issues than most
others, depending on who they are playing.
kev or lou
No thinking required, that's a deffinate. But how much of that is down
to the French mentality versus the the way they're treated by the coach
and the federation? When I look at a team like Toulouse who do have
consistency, and regulary beat English teams in the European cup, I do
wonder whether they're quite the cheese eating surrender monkeys that so
many here and elsewhere insist upon.
lord shineything
Much of the vitriol Lord Shiney has been hearing seems to have been
directed in Guildford's direction. And it's true that Guildford
didn't have the happiest of nights, but to lay all the ABs problems at
the feet of a winger is barking. The real problems lay with the
decision-makers and the tight-5.
Carter - awful in the first half (worse than Slade the week before)
before redeeming himself somewhat in the second.
Weepu - showed great strength to pull off a try-saving tackle, but was
otherwise a liability. Either runs 6 paces towards the intended
receiver before passing, or throws it miles away from the intended
receiver, or both. Too slow to be a running threat and kicking
accuracy is on a par with Lord Shiney's Warnie-impersonation
attempts. The improvement when Ellis came on was like jumping off Old
Goat and getting onto Phar Lap.
Muliania - has always been a defensive liability and was again on
Saturday. Sadly now has no redeeming offensive spark.
Tight-5 - After a shakey start, the scrum was better than against SA,
due to the re-introduction of Franks and Thorn (having 3 locks for
most of the game probably didn't hurt either). But Woodcock is still
a mile off the pace - basically waddles from set piece to set piece.
The most telling stat from Sat night was that his arrival rate at the
breakdown improved 3-fold in the second half when the ABs resorted to
pick-and-go and he no longer had to run more than a couple of paces to
get there. In the first half he simply couldn't keep up. And while
Williams cut down the seagulling, he still wasn't hitting the
breakdown with any vigour. A sub at best these days.
Vito - showed commendable energy, but dropped the ball as often as
Guildford.
Lord Shiney also saw some good things though:
Nonu and Smith - Lord Shiney has always been a critic of Nonu, but he
has to admit that Nonu - while still one-dimensional - has cut out the
brain explosions and is currently in the form of his life.
Franks - injected much-needed energy, strength, aggression and
mobility into the front row. In the absence of Crockett, the best
thing Gee Henry could do at the moment is re-unite the Franks
brothers.
JD
> On 29/08/2011 10:37 a.m., Stephen wrote:
> > Apart from the whinge fest from all and sundry, and a decent analysis from
> > Rick, very little actual discussion here on actual player performance.
>
> > Some random thoughts;
>
> > Is Mils time up? Secure solid etc but the spark has gone.
> > Do you give Zac another go, at times positively possum like, but worth
> > another shot.
> > The midfield still the best in the business.
> > Weepu was not the standout we hoped for starting. Very little sign of his
> > great vision.
> > If Adam Thomson misses another tackle like the Samo one, shoot him.
> > Ali had a barnstorming game, getting back to his best.
> > Sam Whitelock as a no 6, no Kaino but filled a hole.
> > The front row was excellent, the Aussie scrum under real pressure in the 2nd
> > half. Woodcock getting match fit is a great sign.
>
> > Cheers
> > Stephen
>
> Keep Mils. We need the experience and he can't have two bad ones in a
> row. Needs more game time.
He's been a shadow of his form in 2010.
> Zac needs to get "injured" for the good of the team, and bring back
> Hosea Gear or Siti Sivivatu.
Gear knows the way to the finish line, but his workrate sucks.
> Don't like starting with Weepu. I prefer they start with Cowan and Weepu
> comes on as a super sub later.
Agreed.
> Thomson can take one for the team. Too bad, how sad. Bring on Matt Todd.
> We've got plenty of blind side cover, as shown.
No. Thomson had been playing well up until he hyperextended his elbow.
Well up until the South African experience... Matt Todd needs more
time before moving into Test rugby.
> I thought Ali Williams had another mediocre game. He's doing an Isaac
> Ross. He needs to get stuck in to the hard graft. He's not Zinzan Brooke
> and he never will be, despite what he thinks.
Just waiting on Boric to be fit again. Then our top three locks will
be Thorn, Whitelock and Boric.
> Woodcock is a liability. The scrum is less than 10% of the game, and in
> the other 90%, Woodcock was not his old self. Crockett was all over the
> shop when he played - Woodcock also needs to get "injured" for the sake
> of the team.
Yes, their respective workrates outside of the set piece are like
chalk and cheese. Pity Crockett is now in the sights of refs come
scrum time.
> On a more general note, will they please just get rid of Sonny Bill.
> What a fucking waste of a perfectly good backline space. It's obvious as
> hell he's off back to leeg as soon as the RWC is over - can't they just
> show him the door now and give his slot to someone more deserving?
Or have the SAS take care of Mundine and Nasser...
caspar milquetoast
> On 29/08/2011 01:44, caspar milquetoast wrote:
>
>> If the team can see its way to playing their best game for the three
>> finals, no one will touch them.
>
> Except France.
Well, I'll concede that one. If France could turn on one of their purely
dazzling displays of champagne rugby, nothing will stop them on the day,
not even the All Blacks playing well.
And that will be in the certain knowledge that the next game France
plays will be shit.
So please God, let France turn on a purely dazzling display of champagne
rugby in the semi-final against Australia.
Dave
That would be good.
SA vs France final...
caspar milquetoast
Shit.