The Immorality of the Drop Goal
Z
Auckland. I hate the drop goal. Last night we again saw this filthy, disgusting
thing on display. It is time for it to be banned or reduced to 1-point value.
In the Middle Ages, the Pope banned the use of the crossbow against Christians.
This is the same idea. The drop goal is unfair and allows a less skilled team
to defeat a superior team. The whole idea of sport is to reward skill and
talent. I don't care WHO uses it, but the drop goal is wrong. You'll note that
Grant Fox was never a drop goal specialist.
Z
ET
...the drop goal requires MORE skill and therefore should remain in the
game.
The fact that most coaches are too stupid and most players too unskilful to
use the droppie is not reason for it to be ditched.
Perhaps the more appealing alternative might be for your stupid players to
learn how to kick a bloody football - it is, after all, called football.
Or would you prefer all kicking to be removed and just allow pushing and
shoving all day long.
write to your Auckland rugby union and ask them to look up any of the
following former Aussie Rules footballers, who were also magnificent
kickers of the football and pay them to go to Auckland to instruct a few of
your players.
Brian Saare - who could regularly land a drop kick from the goal square into
the centre of the ground, at least 70 metres in the days when footballs were
made of real leather and got heavy quickly. The best drop kicker I have ever
seen and had a fantastic technique.
Barry Cable
Syd Jackson
Austin Robertson - would teach you more in 5 minutes about the art of
kicking a footy than most rugby players know in a lifetime judging by their
techniques.
whether these guys are all still living - I don't know :-)
or go get Jannie de Beer, he knew how to do it even if he did kick with a
"rugby style" which cuts down the level of accuracy possible.
to beat Canterbury you have to be better than them in all regards - not
ignore part of the game.
see ya
ET
John Cawston
You've a short memory.
Fox holds the record for the most dropped goals for Auckland, and either still
holds or held the record for most dropped goals for the ABs in tests.
He's Mr Drop Goal NZ.
JC
Greg
>Z....
>...the drop goal requires MORE skill and therefore should remain in the
>game.
>The fact that most coaches are too stupid and most players too unskilful to
>use the droppie is not reason for it to be ditched.
>
>Perhaps the more appealing alternative might be for your stupid players to
>learn how to kick a bloody football - it is, after all, called football.
>Or would you prefer all kicking to be removed and just allow pushing and
>shoving all day long.
>
>write to your Auckland rugby union and ask them to look up any of the
>following former Aussie Rules footballers, who were also magnificent
>kickers of the football and pay them to go to Auckland to instruct a few of
>your players.
Unfortunatley the current generation of aussie footballers use the
mongrel punt as their kick of choice, and have no idea at all about
the drop kick.
Greg
>Brian Saare - who could regularly land a drop kick from the goal square into
>the centre of the ground, at least 70 metres in the days when footballs were
>made of real leather and got heavy quickly. The best drop kicker I have ever
>seen and had a fantastic technique.
>Barry Cable
Barry is currently occupied with his name being bandied about as a
child molester.( Alledged that is), with some of the claims been heard
in the WA royal commission.
Z
>game.
*yawn*. I want to see entertaining, running rugby. I don't want to see some
boring kick-a-thon. The dropgoal is a CHEAP way to win a game.
>The fact that most coaches are too stupid and most players too unskilful to
>use the droppie is not reason for it to be ditched.
Most coaches try to play entertaining football first.
>Perhaps the more appealing alternative might be for your stupid players to
>learn how to kick a bloody football - it is, after all, called football.
If I wanted to watch football - as in soccer - I would do so. Love the game
myself. I want to watch rugby, you know, running with the ball.
>Or would you prefer all kicking to be removed and just allow pushing and
>shoving all day long.
Tactical and goal kkicking is fine by me.
>whether these guys are all still living - I don't know :-)
>or go get Jannie de Beer, he knew how to do it even if he did kick with a
>"rugby style" which cuts down the level of accuracy possible.
>
>to beat Canterbury you have to be better than them in all regards - not
>ignore part of the game.
I DON'T WANT TO WIN WITH DROP GOALS!
Do you not understand? If Auckland had won with 3 droppies I'd be ashamed to be
an Auckland fan. It's worse to win with drop goals than lose. It's
dishonourable.
Z
Z
>
>Fox holds the record for the most dropped goals for Auckland, and either still
>holds or held the record for most dropped goals for the ABs in tests.
>
>He's Mr Drop Goal NZ.
Doesn't make him a specialist. He never kicked a lot of them on average - it's
just because he had a long career that he has the highest total. It's like a
batsman with 5000 runs and a 25.00 average vs a batsman with 4000 runs and a
50.00 average
Z
John Cawston
> >You've a short memory.
> >
> >Fox holds the record for the most dropped goals for Auckland, and either still
> >holds or held the record for most dropped goals for the ABs in tests.
> >
> >He's Mr Drop Goal NZ.
>
> Doesn't make him a specialist. He never kicked a lot of them on average
Just heaps more than anyone else.
> - it's
> just because he had a long career that he has the highest total.
Longer career than Mehrts? Nope.
> It's like a
> batsman with 5000 runs and a 25.00 average vs a batsman with 4000 runs and a
> 50.00 average
Sort of like Mehrts with over 60 tests and until last night, about the same number
of DGs compared to Foxy with 50 tests?
JC
person x
John Cawston
Oops, Foxy's lead increases significantly.
JC
Bobs
would be better. Then it's worth enough to be actually used, but not enough that
you can win games from its constant use.
I also think trys should be worth 6pts, and the conversion only 1pt. Like they have
in gridiron.
Z wrote:
--
Q: How can you tell if your wife is dead?
A: The sex is the same but the dishes pile up.
Kip
>Most coaches try to play entertaining football first.
>
What ever gives you this ridiculous idea??? Ever even set foot on the
field of play?!?
John Hobbs
be able to drop kick After all every kick off today is a drop kick
Z
>field of play?!?
You're a dumb fuck sometimes Kip
What was the WHOLE point of developing sports, way back in the ancient times?
Entertainment. Sporting contests do not produce any economic products
themselves (people watching do, but the actual game itself doesn't). It's
entertainment. And yes I've played school rugby and have coached school soccer
and we always set out to entertain. It's a shame you didn't see my boys play
this year because you'd see 11 lads having a great time and playing beautiful
football (or at least trying to!)
Z
Kip
>You're a dumb fuck sometimes Kip
>What was the WHOLE point of developing sports, way back in the ancient times?
>Entertainment. Sporting contests do not produce any economic products
>themselves (people watching do, but the actual game itself doesn't). It's
>entertainment. And yes I've played school rugby and have coached school soccer
>and we always set out to entertain. It's a shame you didn't see my boys play
>this year because you'd see 11 lads having a great time and playing beautiful
>football (or at least trying to!)
>
If you think ANY AB coach ever placed the importance of
'entertainment' over and above that of 'winning' then your
appreciation of NZ rugby is ZERO.
MauriceV
What a shame Naas Botha never got to play *real* world rugby (not the
kind involving rebel tours and such). He may just have made the finest
flyhalf in the world.
--
Maurice Valmont
Znh...@shaqv.pbz
[highlight address, press Ctrl+R]
"What if the Hokey-Pokey IS all it really is about?" -JB
rick boyd
wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:50:39 +0200, "John Hobbs"
><jonh...@iafrica.com> wrote:
>
>>you clearly have never seen Naas Botha play. A well rounded fly half has to
>>be able to drop kick After all every kick off today is a drop kick
>
>What a shame Naas Botha never got to play *real* world rugby (not the
>kind involving rebel tours and such). He may just have made the finest
>flyhalf in the world.
You mean apartfrom the 1981 Springbok tour of New Zealand?
He was good all right, but the Springboks didn't come within an ace of
winning that series through drop goals.
-- rick boyd
Mark
something?
"Z" <sp...@spoof.com> wrote in message news:amg51i$o5k$2...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Kip
news:nrsj9.9317$Y3.17...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Doesn't Orene Ai'ii now play for the Canterbury development team or
> something?
>
The Crusaders picked him up out of the draft after Auckland discarded him.
Only time I saw him was when he was collecting his medal at the end - I
think he got injured playing for the CCs reserve side early on?
Peter Ashford
The problem is that Rugby is a team sport and being able to score a drop
goal from the halfway line (while being skillfull) negates the whole team
aspect of the game. Rugby should be about running the ball and scoring
tries, not trying to emulate golf.
Peter.
"Z" <sp...@spoof.com> wrote in message news:amg51i$o5k$2...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Justin Mansfield
news:K1Oj9.9664$Y3.18...@news.xtra.co.nz...
> I agree - drop goals suck.
>
> The problem is that Rugby is a team sport and being able to score a drop
> goal from the halfway line (while being skillfull) negates the whole team
> aspect of the game. Rugby should be about running the ball and scoring
> tries, not trying to emulate golf.
Right. So intercept/runaway tries should be banned too. And penalties. And a
try shall only be deemed to have been scored if the ball has been touched by
all fifteen players in the scoring movement..Lineouts should also be
eliminated due to them not utilising enough of the team. The only acceptable
ploys are: 1) The ubermaul with 15 players involved; 2) Baabaas 1973 type
tries. Conversions are also out.
Justin
Peter Ashford
"Justin Mansfield" <REMOVEjusti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:amolgg$7453a$1...@ID-143414.news.dfncis.de...
Don't be such a dork.
Peter.
Andrew Cox
I don't think it's him that's being a dork. Scoring a drop goal is just as
much a team effort as scoring a try, and more so than a penalty.
Andy
>
Justin Mansfield
> > > I agree - drop goals suck.
> > >
> > > The problem is that Rugby is a team sport and being able to score a
drop
> > > goal from the halfway line (while being skillfull) negates the whole
> > > team aspect of the game. Rugby should be about running the ball and
scoring
> > > tries, not trying to emulate golf.
> >
> > Right. So intercept/runaway tries should be banned too. And penalties.
And
> > a try shall only be deemed to have been scored if the ball has been
touched
> > by all fifteen players in the scoring movement..Lineouts should also be
> > eliminated due to them not utilising enough of the team. The only
> > acceptable ploys are: 1) The ubermaul with 15 players involved; 2)
Baabaas 1973 type
> > tries. Conversions are also out.
>
> Don't be such a dork.
Well don't such a moron then.
Justin
Greig Blanchett
<m...@here.there.com> wrote:
>I agree - drop goals suck.
>
>The problem is that Rugby is a team sport and being able to score a drop
>goal from the halfway line (while being skillfull) negates the whole team
>aspect of the game. Rugby should be about running the ball and scoring
>tries, not trying to emulate golf.
>
>Peter.
>
>
You're wrong. What separates rugby from most other sports is that
there is a variety of ways to score. This is what makes a well matched
rugby game with two good captains more like a chess game than a
checkers game. If you start removing options from the game, it makes
it more and more a game for big boofheaded roid monsters, like rugby
league, for instance. For what was originally billed as a game for all
shapes and sizes, the body shapes are getting a bit too
one-dimensional. I'd like to see the return of some skilled
footballers, such as a little bloke with a big boot who can drop kick
from all over the field. That would shake up these boring defensive
patterns a bit, and the end result would be more open rugby. When you
have to defend against anything the opposition might throw at you, you
can't afford to just set up a drift net of every player not involved
in the breakdown and pick up the opposition as they come through -
when you need chasers to actually chase lest the guy drop kick from
wherever, and when you need cover for the fullback because of the
bombs raining down, when the walking maul requires every forward to
quit seagulling and actually do some hard graft, then the rest of the
game opens up.
Kip
wrote:
>You're wrong. What separates rugby from most other sports is that
>there is a variety of ways to score. This is what makes a well matched
>rugby game with two good captains more like a chess game than a
>checkers game. If you start removing options from the game, it makes
>it more and more a game for big boofheaded roid monsters, like rugby
>league, for instance. For what was originally billed as a game for all
>shapes and sizes, the body shapes are getting a bit too
>one-dimensional. I'd like to see the return of some skilled
>footballers, such as a little bloke with a big boot who can drop kick
>from all over the field. That would shake up these boring defensive
>patterns a bit, and the end result would be more open rugby. When you
>have to defend against anything the opposition might throw at you, you
>can't afford to just set up a drift net of every player not involved
>in the breakdown and pick up the opposition as they come through -
>when you need chasers to actually chase lest the guy drop kick from
>wherever, and when you need cover for the fullback because of the
>bombs raining down, when the walking maul requires every forward to
>quit seagulling and actually do some hard graft, then the rest of the
>game opens up.
>
For once I agree with you you idiot Blanchett. In your muddled, random
way you've hit the nail right on the head.
Greig Blanchett
wrote:
Kip, if you agree with me, then you can't have understood what I said.
Either that, or I must be losing my marbles, you chowder head.
MauriceV
wrote:
I don't remember saying anything about winning series through drop
goals alone - in fact, I don't remember saying anything about winning
series, period. In fact, this part of the discussion concerned only
Naas Botha and his lack of exposure to international competition.
Now I hardly think four matches would provide enough international
experience for a player to develop into the best in the world,
wouldn't you agree?
It is true that Botha used to be called the "skepskopkoning" or "king
of the drop goal", but then he was exceptionally skilled at virtually
everything expected of a world-class flyhalf. I don't believe there is
a single Western Province supporter (or any supporter of a side other
than the Blue Bulls) out there who would argue that Botha's skill at
kicking drop goals (with either foot, nogal) was irrelevant. There
were many Currie Cup matches (and at least one final) in which Naas
brought back the Blue Bulls from almost-certain humiliation with a
well-placed drop goal or two, and inspired the team to wrest victory
from the hand of the infidels.
As for drop goals and their importance in a match, ask the All Blacks
who played South Africa in the '95 World Cup final how they feel about
Stransky's drop goal in the final moments of that match, or talk to
the Australian side that lost to England in a quarterfinal due to a
drop goal by Rob Andrew in the final moments of that match. Ask the
Springboks of '99 about Larkham's drop goal in extra time in the
semifinals. Or ask the English about those five drop goals in the
quarterfinal against South Africa... And blah blah blah. Drop goals
have won (or lost, when missed) many important matches, and they've
added an excitement and unpredictability that might not have been
there otherwise. I for one certainly would not mess with the drop
goal; rugby would be the poorer for its absence.
Peter Ashford
So... how exactly do you 'such' a moron then Justin? Must be some strange
Cantab ritual I've not come accross.
Peter Ashford
"Andrew Cox" <and...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:JdUj9.10515$DR.6...@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
Bollocks. Janie De Beer could knock the bloody things over from the half
way line. It doesn't take much of a team effort to get to halfway, does it?
Peter.
Peter Ashford
"Greig Blanchett" <gre...@nzrfu.com> wrote in message
news:14606F07B703E82A.B47977D0...@lp.airnews.net...
I don't want drop goals removed, perhaps just worth less. Say 2 points for
a drop goal and and try goes to 6/1. Just an idea.
Historically, drop goals were bloody hard to get - the kicking the old
leather covered ball was like kicking a brick and knocking one over from
within the opposition 22 still required a fair bit of skill.
The problem that I have with drop goals is that with modern balls, some
players can slot them from just about anywhere. Janie de Beer could get
them from halfway. How would you feel about the game consisting of a couple
of sequences of play to get a few yards into enemy territory followed up by
a drop goal attempt? (repeat ad infinitum) It doesn't sound like my idea of
an exciting game of rugby.
Peter.
Justin Mansfield
> > > Don't be such a dork.
> >
> > Well don't such a moron then.
>
> So... how exactly do you 'such' a moron then Justin? Must be some strange
> Cantab ritual I've not come accross.
Another example, this time moronic pedantry.
Justin
Greig Blanchett
<m...@here.there.com> wrote:
That's because you seem to have a narrow definition of what makes a
game exciting. A good rugby team plays to it's strengths. If you have
someone who can slot them from all over the shop, you'd be nuts not to
play to that strength. Your point re: Janie de Beer is a bit of a red
herring. He did this in one game - hasn't really been able to
duplicate it since - and caught the English tactically unaware - they
took too long to nullify him, they played to a stilted pattern and
paid the price. That is exactly what I love about rugby - the finding
of the key to unlock the defensive frailties of the opposition. In
that particular game, the drop goal worked.
Peter Ashford
It's not my fault your education is lacking, son.
Peter.
Justin Mansfield
> > > > > Don't be such a dork.
> > > >
> > > > Well don't such a moron then.
> > >
> > > So... how exactly do you 'such' a moron then Justin? Must be some
> > > strange Cantab ritual I've not come accross.
> >
> > Another example, this time moronic pedantry.
> >
>
> It's not my fault your education is lacking, son.
>
Now it's condescending moron.
Justin
Peter Ashford
What? You were expecting admiration for your effort? I post about a rugby
matter and you decend straight into sarcasm - why the hell should I give you
the time of day? If you want a serious answer don't be facetious in the
first place.
You may not agree with me - most people in the thread seem not too - but
they seem to manage to do it by simply expressing an alternate opinion
backed up with supporting argument. You could try that some time.
Peter.
Justin Mansfield
> What? You were expecting admiration for your effort? I post about a rugby
> matter and you decend
Lucky I'm not as pedantic as you.
> straight into sarcasm - why the hell should I give you
> the time of day? If you want a serious answer don't be facetious in the
> first place.
I couldn't believe that you were being serious, saying that drop goals
should be lessened because they don't fit in to the ethos of a team game.
That is just laughable.
> You may not agree with me - most people in the thread seem not too - but
> they seem to manage to do it by simply expressing an alternate opinion
> backed up with supporting argument. You could try that some time.
My opinion was expressed by my post, if you couldn't grasp that then tough.
Justin
Peter Ashford
> > they seem to manage to do it by simply expressing an alternate opinion
> > backed up with supporting argument. You could try that some time.
>
> My opinion was expressed by my post, if you couldn't grasp that then
tough.
>
>
Your post had nothing to do with mine. I posted that drop goals work
against the team ethos of the game and you went off on rant about:
* Banning intercept/runaway tries
* Banning penalities.
* Banning conversions
* Banning tries unless the ball was touched by all fiffteen players in the
scoring movement
etc... etc...
"My opinion was expressed by my post"... What opinion were you expressing?
None of what you posted followed on from the prior conversation.
Peter.
Kees Echo
> Lucky I'm not as pedantic as you.
<snip>
> I couldn't believe that you were being serious, saying that drop goals
> should be lessened because they don't fit in to the ethos of a team game.
> That is just laughable.
<snip>
> My opinion was expressed by my post, if you couldn't grasp that then tough.
>
> Justin
OK Justin, I give up. Where have you hidden the word Moron?
Kees
Justin Mansfield
So you couldn't grasp it then.
Justin
Charlie Pearce
>>What ever gives you this ridiculous idea??? Ever even set foot on the
>>field of play?!?
>
>You're a dumb fuck sometimes Kip
>What was the WHOLE point of developing sports, way back in the ancient times?
>Entertainment.
Um, I would say military training and recreation (usually the former)
rather than entertainment...
Charlie
--
Remove NO-SPOO-PLEASE from my email address to reply
Please send no unsolicited email or foodstuffs
Peter Ashford
Or more to the point - you have no point, as per usual. In fact your posts
are 95% troll bait with very little substance.
Justin Mansfield
> > So you couldn't grasp it then.
> >
>
> Or more to the point - you have no point, as per usual. In fact your
posts
> are 95% troll bait with very little substance.
I see you've learned a new phrase. I bet you're very happy with yourself.
Justin
Peter Ashford
I see you're still a clue-free-zone.
Peter.
Justin Mansfield
> > > Or more to the point - you have no point, as per usual. In fact your
> > > posts are 95% troll bait with very little substance.
> >
> > I see you've learned a new phrase. I bet you're very happy with
yourself.
>
> I see you're still a clue-free-zone.
Another snappy one, you're on form this week aren't you.
Peter Ashford
It's known as a vocabulary. You should try and get one.
Peter.
Justin Mansfield
> > > I see you're still a clue-free-zone.
> >
> > Another snappy one, you're on form this week aren't you.
> >
>
> It's known as a vocabulary.
Yours seems to be mostly monosyllabic.
> You should try and get one.
These witty ripostes are really top class. Do you really write them
yourself?
Justin
Peter Ashford
> "Peter Ashford" <m...@here.there.com> wrote in message
> news:yM2m9.1677$Os6.2...@news.xtra.co.nz...
>
> > > > I see you're still a clue-free-zone.
> > >
> > > Another snappy one, you're on form this week aren't you.
> > >
> >
> > It's known as a vocabulary.
>
> Yours seems to be mostly monosyllabic.
Clearly another word you don't understand then. How many sylables in
"vocabulary" then, Justin? Oh... I understand, elementary mathematics is
one of those skills you're going to brush up on once you've got the hang of
typing.
> > You should try and get one.
>
> These witty ripostes are really top class. Do you really write them
> yourself?
It doesn't take much effort to engage in a war of wits with an unarmed
opponent.
Peter.
Justin Mansfield
> > > It's known as a vocabulary.
> >
> > Yours seems to be mostly monosyllabic.
>
> Clearly another word you don't understand then. How many sylables in
> "vocabulary" then, Justin? Oh... I understand, elementary mathematics is
> one of those skills you're going to brush up on once you've got the hang
of
> typing.
You don't seem to have a very good grasp of English. Go look up the word
"mostly".
> > > You should try and get one.
> >
> > These witty ripostes are really top class. Do you really write them
> > yourself?
>
> It doesn't take much effort to engage in a war of wits with an unarmed
> opponent.
So you don't make them up yourself then.
Justin
Peter Ashford
You're not worth the effort Justin - if that's the best you can muster.