Handicap South Africa - 20-30 points realistic.
Dirk
Villiers is in charge of SA, the Boks need to start with 20 points.
Otherwise, I guarantee, the TN will be a commercial failure, as it
will if SA continue to play like a 3rd tier nation. Next year it
should really only be about the Bledisloe cup and SA can play Fiji,
Tonga and Argentina.
20 points may be a bit low - maybe 25-30 would be more realistic.
Mark (newsgroups)
Ok.
Dave Keegan
I don't think the players are your problem, and I think the answer
to your coaching problems may lie outside of South Africa...
Sorry, Jolly, old habits....
Keegan...
rick boyd
South Africa must be due for a high intensity game about now while
Australia should be ripe for an error-ridden collapse. I for one will
not be falling over in surprise if South Africa win by 20 this weekend.
-- rick boyd
didgerman
> Dave Keegan wrote:
>> On Aug 28, 7:08 am, Dirk <Dirkblik...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> In order to maintain any interest in the TN while Helter-Skelter de
>>> Villiers is in charge of SA, the Boks need to start with 20 points.
>>> Otherwise, I guarantee, the TN will be a commercial failure, as it
>>> will if SA continue to play like a 3rd tier nation. Next year it
>>> should really only be about the Bledisloe cup and SA can play Fiji,
>>> Tonga and Argentina.
>>> 20 points may be a bit low - maybe 25-30 would be more realistic.
>>
>> I don't think the players are your problem, and I think the answer
>> to your coaching problems may lie outside of South Africa...
>>
>> Sorry, Jolly, old habits....
>
> South Africa must be due for a high intensity game about now
Based on what? Oh yeah, luck, drugs and budget, that's what it all comes
down to. We know this, because Boyd has told us....
Dave Keegan
Yes, that's how I see it. There is just no way SA will allow
themselves to lose two at home like that. The Australian team is
decent, but not in the class that wins a series in SA.
Keegan...
didgerman
Was that series played at altitude? How come England always have to play
half way to the frickin' moon, and all the TriN games are on a beach
somewhere?
You're all girls.
>
> Keegan...
Dave Keegan
Was that an official excuse or just an off the cuff one?
Keegan...
Ferdi
<ru...@budweiser.com> wrote:
<< I don't think the players are your problem, and I think the
answer
>to your coaching problems may lie outside of South Africa...
>
> Sorry, Jolly, old habits....
>
> Keegan...>>
The problem is the coach, yes.
The answer is right under our noses.
Take your pick: Rassie Erasmus, Heynecke Meyer, Eugene Eloff or Dick
Muir.
All 4 are coaching S14 teams and Currie Cup teams with success.
Rassie has a knack for clever moves and tactical stuff and plays a
game that is consevativly forward based.
Eloff plays a running game. He has had good success with the Lions in
the CC. Basically a team with about one to two star players. The rest
young eager guys. They run well and when they click they handle
wonderfully.
Meyer played a forward based game with teh Bulls. Had some success
with it.
Muir mixes it with the Sharks and is doing OK except for fucking up
Francois Steyn by using him to stop gaps all over the show.
They all can coach the Boks. They all want to coach the Boks.
The problem is that they are all white skinned. Latter day job
reservation disables them from getting the job.
Anybody from outside will have to be black too.
Do you have any suggestions for black coaches outside SA that may be
interested?
Ferdi
<<>Based on what? Oh yeah, luck, drugs and budget, that's what it all
comes
>down to. We know this, because Boyd has told us....>>
Don't forget Boyd's theory no 1 : The reff is crooked.
Ferdi
<ru...@budweiser.com> wrote:
<<> Yes, that's how I see it. There is just no way SA will allow
>themselves to lose two at home like that. The Australian team is
>decent, but not in the class that wins a series in SA.>>
You may be right but you do not understand the disarray the Bok team
is in at the moment. Ever some of the players have spoken out against
De Villiers's way of playing.
And he keeps on saying everything is in place and working - except
minor problems here and there.
For maybe the 1st time the coach and the captain was boo-ed loudly in
Durban. The team was even boo-ed as they got on the bus to leave the
stadium.
Ferdi
<<>Was that series played at altitude? How come England always have to
play
>half way to the frickin' moon, and all the TriN games are on a beach
>somewhere?
>You're all girls.>>>
Don't worry. You can beat us in a month or so when De Villiers takes
an "experimental side" to the UK. He,he... that should be good for
some cynical fun.
And then the Lions come here next year. De Villiers has a contract
that says he keeps the job for 2 years or he gets R5 million bucks.
And Saru will not be happy to spend all that boodle on him. They will
want a share themselves. So he will probably keep the job. So next
year against the Lions the Boks will still 1. Not worry about the
points of breakdown 2. Pass every ball they get out wide to the side
lines and 3. Bring the midget on as a sub in place of Schalk Burger as
soon as possible.
didgerman
It was a scientific reason. And it proves that New Zealand refuse to
play at altitude because you just can't get eyeliner to stick.
K?
>
> Keegan...
>
didgerman
Don't worry about it. Worry about it later if the ship doesn't right
itself.....
JollyRoger
Eddie Jones looks slightly pigmented to me...
Jolly
Lelio
scritto:
>On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:11:35 -0700 (PDT), Dave Keegan
><ru...@budweiser.com> wrote:
>
>
><< I don't think the players are your problem, and I think the
>answer
>>to your coaching problems may lie outside of South Africa...
>>
>> Sorry, Jolly, old habits....
>>
>> Keegan...>>
>
>The problem is the coach, yes.
>The answer is right under our noses.
>Take your pick: Rassie Erasmus, Heynecke Meyer, Eugene Eloff or Dick
>Muir.
the coach is supposed to set the gameplan and choose players.
which are according to you the worst choices among players ?
(just dont tell me again about the midget/burger story, I'm still
laughing :-))
Ciao
Lelio
Mike
We all bow down in admiration of your greatly superior knowledge on such
matters, unless of course RSRU's other resident eyeliner expert has any
opinions.
Matty?
Mike
Ferdi
<hcst...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<<>Eddie Jones looks slightly pigmented to me...>>
The clowns in parliament allready threw all their toys out of the ANC
cott when Jake White contracted him last year. He was unacceptable to
them. Try again.
Ferdi
<<>the coach is supposed to set the gameplan and choose players.
>
>which are according to you the worst choices among players ?
>(just dont tell me again about the midget/burger story, I'm still
>laughing :-)) >>
BJ Botha on prop was ignored along with Jannie du Plessis.
Johann Muller on lock was ignored. So was Danie Rossouw.
Wickus van Heerden and Cobus Grobbelaar - natural fetchers on flank -
is ignored.
Ruan Pienaar on no 9 is ignored.
Francois Steyn is seen as at most a utility back for the bench. The
rest of the rugby world was quite taken with him. It is only Du
Plessis, it seems, that thinks he is crap.
Percy Montgommery is at the end of his career but is still better than
Jantjes, but Percy has been cast away.
But it is not so much the players as the way he has them playing.
Let me put is this way - this year he got a world champion team with
an average age of around 26.
The first thing he did was to break up key combinations in the team.
The second thing he did was to tell them to forget about the style of
playing that made them the best in the world and to start playing very
dufferently. And he never considered that maybe the way he wants them
to play, does not come naturally to them.
But hey, this is also the guy who predicted that there may well be 3
SA teams in the semi's of this year's S14. Nobody ever reminded him of
that.
grant
Whereas you, didge old bean, reckon England have never lost to NZ at
the RWC and all tests between the said RWC account for nothing.
Lies, damn lies and didge.
grant.
---
Dave Keegan
K...
eegan....
Stex
maybe its just cause he's a darkie and shouldnt have been getting on
the same bus.
Stex
Lelio
scritto:
>On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:12:20 +0200, Lelio <cusc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Once again I understand all your points and can agree under the
technical part of what you say.
But there is one thing I have not read yet in the analisys I've found
in this newsgroup.
After a big and historical performance as winning world cup the
players usually go through a process of self satisfaction, they are
not hungry of glory anymore and without a knowledge their performance
start dropping. If you put in the picture that some players loose
focus because they have gone to play North it's at least probable that
the team would be affected.
I live in Italy and altough I love Rugby here people almost live about
football as you know.
We are world champions since 2006 (underdog after brazil and germany,
like (for somebody) south africa was).
After the glory days we changed coach (not dismissed but resigned to
be accurate) and the new one kept most of the players but changed
something in the gameplan.
As you maybe know we had bad days since the day after the final: poor
games, difficult qualification to Euro 2008, bad European championship
and troubles still continue.
The coach has been dropped but everybody can see that players are not
the same, something broken in their minds. and now many of them that
are World champion have changed teams, seat on the bench in second row
clubs.
I can think that the mind of a world champion is the same, no matter
the shape of the ball they use to play and maybe most of the
Springboks are not hungry enough to perform as one year ago.
And as in Italy or in Brazil or wherever is the coach who pay. Maybe
JdV has more to pay but in my opinion he is not the only guilty in
this story.
I close here this post and greet everybody. Tomorrow I'll live from
Italy to S.A. and for the first time I'll touch Afrcan Soil. It's
particularly strong and difficult to tell the feeling and talking
about rugby helps.
See you soon here or there.
Ciao
Lelio
rick boyd
> Once again I understand all your points and can agree under the
> technical part of what you say.
> But there is one thing I have not read yet in the analisys I've found
> in this newsgroup.
>
> After a big and historical performance as winning world cup the
> players usually go through a process of self satisfaction, they are
> not hungry of glory anymore and without a knowledge their performance
> start dropping. If you put in the picture that some players loose
> focus because they have gone to play North it's at least probable that
> the team would be affected.
It's an interesting theory Lelio, but another even more interesting
theory is that the world cup is a knockout tournament and all it measure
is the ability to fluke two serious games in a row. Which is why the
world cup holder is not the world champion.
The reason that South Africa (1995 and 2007) plunged to mediocrity
immediately following the world cup is because they were mediocre before
the world cup as well, and jagging a world cup win does not make a team
any better. The reason that England (2003) plunged to ineptitude
following the world cup is because they were briefly a good team but
only just held any kind of domination and as soon as they lost a couple
of players their lack of depth was quickly exposed.
The reason that New Zealand (1987) and Australia (1991) went on to have
lengthy periods of domination after their world cup wins has nothing to
do with their world cup title and everything to do with them being
quality teams that also managed to jag a world cup win despite the
variable nature of knockout tournaments.
-- rick boyd
Osbourne Ruddock
news:dHxtk.49188$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com:
>>
>> Yes, that's how I see it. There is just no way SA will allow
>> themselves to lose two at home like that. The Australian team is
>> decent, but not in the class that wins a series in SA.
>
> Was that series played at altitude? How come England always have to
> play half way to the frickin' moon, and all the TriN games are on a
> beach somewhere?
> You're all girls.
>
FFS Didge, we own altitude.
Does the word Didgerman mean 'wronger than a very wrong thing wearing a
T-shirt saying 'I'm Wrong'?
--
Cheers, Os
Stex
> didgerman <didger...@rfu.com> wrote innews:dHxtk.49188$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com:
hang on maybe a certain game at altitude in 1995 counts in
Didgerworld.
Stex
Osbourne Ruddock
news:8f4718d9-ab89-451d...@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>> FFS Didge, we own altitude.
>>
>> Does the word Didgerman mean 'wronger than a very wrong thing wearing
>> a T-shirt saying 'I'm Wrong'?
>>
>> --
>> Cheers, Os
>
> hang on maybe a certain game at altitude in 1995 counts in
> Didgerworld.
>
It counts alright, amongst many others.
--
Cheers, Os
Mung
"didgerman" <didg...@rfu.com> wrote in message
news:dHxtk.49188$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
That's wors wefor yur team ..... nearly always being beaten by a team of
girls.... Oh the Shame.
Greig Blanchett
Big deal, the softcocks. The All Blacks get roundly boo-ed here if
they don't beat the frickin' spread.
--
greig
Russell
And there my Italian friend, is your indoctrination. Except Rick,
don't drag Australia into this, they have won twice, once even away from
home.
Russell
rick boyd
> And there my Italian friend, is your indoctrination. Except Rick,
> don't drag Australia into this, they have won twice, once even away from
> home.
The second time was a non-event. In 1999 there were no favourites, any
one of the tri-nations could have won it, they were much of a muchness
before the world cup and the same after it.
-- rick boyd
Ferdi
wrote:
<<>maybe its just cause he's a darkie and shouldnt have been getting
on
>the same bus.>>
zzzz
rick boyd
> Dave Keegan wrote:
>> On Aug 28, 7:08 am, Dirk <Dirkblik...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> In order to maintain any interest in the TN while Helter-Skelter de
>>> Villiers is in charge of SA, the Boks need to start with 20 points.
>>> Otherwise, I guarantee, the TN will be a commercial failure, as it
>>> will if SA continue to play like a 3rd tier nation. Next year it
>>> should really only be about the Bledisloe cup and SA can play Fiji,
>>> Tonga and Argentina.
>>> 20 points may be a bit low - maybe 25-30 would be more realistic.
>>
>> I don't think the players are your problem, and I think the answer
>> to your coaching problems may lie outside of South Africa...
>>
>> Sorry, Jolly, old habits....
>
> South Africa must be due for a high intensity game about now while
> Australia should be ripe for an error-ridden collapse. I for one will
> not be falling over in surprise if South Africa win by 20 this weekend.
>
> -- rick boyd
Still standing.
-- rick boyd
Richard Bridgman
Show off!
Richard Bridgman
Dave Keegan
I can't believe I had more faith than you did Ferdi...
Keegan...
ken
> In order to maintain any interest in the TN while Helter-Skelter de
> Villiers is in charge of SA, the Boks need to start with 20 points.
> Otherwise, I guarantee, the TN will be a commercial failure, as it
> will if SA continue to play like a 3rd tier nation. Next year it
> should really only be about the Bledisloe cup and SA can play Fiji,
> Tonga and Argentina.
> 20 points may be a bit low - maybe 25-30 would be more realistic.
The actual result may have surprised you, then?
Ken