current form players - just beforer EPS time
Simon S-B
some form and would make a good impact. Props are in a bit of a short supply
at the moment. Tim Payne is a solid option, and Jon Golding looks the part.
Both could do a job in the #1 shirt. I expect we'll see Wilson and Bell in
there, but I think Flatman should get a look in although probably only for
Saxons.
Kennedy and Lawes enjoyed a good tussle at the weekend. I'd like to see them
both getting some 6N time, even if the best they can hope for is to come on
from the bench. Only an idiot would bet against Shaw and Borthwick starting,
and with Shaw alongside him I'd also be betting on Borthwick having a decent
6N. Too soon for Gaskell who should be Saxons bound.
Croft looks to be misfiring a bit and Lawes also plays 6 so he'd best watch
out or he'll have more than Haskell to worry about. I still think there's
room for Stefan Armitage in the England setup, but as an impact option to
Moody at the moment. Easter is playing well (I hated saying that) but then
he usually does at club level. Ward-Smith doesn't quite look back from
injury yet, and Crane seems a bit off the boil as well.
There's a wealth of talent at 9. Hodgson, Care, Ellis, Youngs, Young is
probably the pecking order at the moment. I suspect we'll see all of them in
either the senior or the Saxons squad. For me, we need a flat 10, and that's
Flood, Geragthy and Myler. I'd also like to see Alex Goode getting some
gametime as well, possibly from 15. I'd have JW 12 for his experience, Delon
at 13. A mean defensive midfield with a bit of flair.
The Ashton question is the big one. The lad can score and now he's got used
to the defensive patterns a bit more he's not the liability he was in
defense. Saxons for definite, and looking to get some gametime in the 6N as
well. Strettle despite the defensive lapse at the weekend is going well.
Monye's stock is declining rapidly and Cueto has to be ahead of him in the
order. MJ allegedly has a voodoo doll of Sackey, so I guess Cato and Banahan
are the only other options.
Foden has worked hard on his positional play, and is slightly edging Morgan
who is not back to his best yet at the moment. Delon is by some way the best
15 England have, but he's also the best 13 and that's a problem position for
us. Cipriani or Alex Goode are the bolter options.
There's a mean side in there capable of playing more than one way, and
leaving a bench with some real impact potential. For Gods sake I hope we
don't waste these spots on the likes of White, Vickery, Worsley, Tindall and
co.
Pure Salt
"Simon S-B" <bait...@gmail.com> a �crit dans le message de
news:hhspk8$j5j$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Hartley has to be nailed on for the hookers shirt. Mears is starting to
> find some form and would make a good impact. Props are in a bit of a short
> supply at the moment. Tim Payne is a solid option, and Jon Golding looks
> the part. Both could do a job in the #1 shirt. I expect we'll see Wilson
> and Bell in there, but I think Flatman should get a look in although
> probably only for Saxons.
>
> Kennedy and Lawes enjoyed a good tussle at the weekend. I'd like to see
> them both getting some 6N time, even if the best they can hope for is to
> come on from the bench. Only an idiot would bet against Shaw and Borthwick
> starting, and with Shaw alongside him I'd also be betting on Borthwick
> having a decent 6N. Too soon for Gaskell who should be Saxons bound.
>
> Croft looks to be misfiring a bit and Lawes also plays 6 so he'd best
> watch out or he'll have more than Haskell to worry about. I still think
> there's room for Stefan Armitage in the England setup, but as an impact
> option to Moody at the moment. Easter is playing well (I hated saying
> that) but then he usually does at club level. Ward-Smith doesn't quite
> look back from injury yet, and Crane seems a bit off the boil as well.
>
> There's a wealth of talent at 9. Hodgson, Care, Ellis, Youngs, Young is
> probably the pecking order at the moment. I suspect we'll see all of them
> in either the senior or the Saxons squad. For me, we need a flat 10, and
> that's Flood, Geragthy and Myler. I'd also like to see Alex Goode getting
> some gametime as well, possibly from 15. I'd have JW 12 for his
> experience, Delon at 13. A mean defensive midfield with a bit of flair.
>
against Perpignan yesterday. I only saw some highlights but the newspaper
reports are very positive.
> The Ashton question is the big one. The lad can score and now he's got
> used to the defensive patterns a bit more he's not the liability he was in
> defense. Saxons for definite, and looking to get some gametime in the 6N
> as well. Strettle despite the defensive lapse at the weekend is going
> well. Monye's stock is declining rapidly and Cueto has to be ahead of him
> in the order. MJ allegedly has a voodoo doll of Sackey, so I guess Cato
> and Banahan are the only other options.
>
> Foden has worked hard on his positional play, and is slightly edging
> Morgan who is not back to his best yet at the moment. Delon is by some way
> the best 15 England have, but he's also the best 13 and that's a problem
> position for us. Cipriani or Alex Goode are the bolter options.
>
> There's a mean side in there capable of playing more than one way, and
> leaving a bench with some real impact potential. For Gods sake I hope we
> don't waste these spots on the likes of White, Vickery, Worsley, Tindall
> and co.
>
Absolutely right but you know that MJ wont do it. Saxons games could be more
interesting than the main 6N.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Simon S-B
"Pure Salt" <unli...@elsewhere.com> wrote in message
news:4b420989$0$17523$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
I know he's likely, but I just don't think he should be eligible. I know
within the rules it's fine, but it leaves a bad taste with me.
>> The Ashton question is the big one. The lad can score and now he's got
>> used to the defensive patterns a bit more he's not the liability he was
>> in defense. Saxons for definite, and looking to get some gametime in the
>> 6N as well. Strettle despite the defensive lapse at the weekend is going
>> well. Monye's stock is declining rapidly and Cueto has to be ahead of him
>> in the order. MJ allegedly has a voodoo doll of Sackey, so I guess Cato
>> and Banahan are the only other options.
>>
>> Foden has worked hard on his positional play, and is slightly edging
>> Morgan who is not back to his best yet at the moment. Delon is by some
>> way the best 15 England have, but he's also the best 13 and that's a
>> problem position for us. Cipriani or Alex Goode are the bolter options.
>>
>> There's a mean side in there capable of playing more than one way, and
>> leaving a bench with some real impact potential. For Gods sake I hope we
>> don't waste these spots on the likes of White, Vickery, Worsley, Tindall
>> and co.
>>
> Absolutely right but you know that MJ wont do it. Saxons games could be
> more interesting than the main 6N.
>>
>>
I may well have a season of following the Saxons. They were better than the
main event last year by a long way.
Pure Salt
>>> The Ashton question is the big one. The lad can score and now he's got
>>> used to the defensive patterns a bit more he's not the liability he was
>>> in defense. Saxons for definite, and looking to get some gametime in the
>>> 6N as well. Strettle despite the defensive lapse at the weekend is going
>>> well. Monye's stock is declining rapidly and Cueto has to be ahead of
>>> him in the order. MJ allegedly has a voodoo doll of Sackey, so I guess
>>> Cato and Banahan are the only other options.
>>>
>>> Foden has worked hard on his positional play, and is slightly edging
>>> Morgan who is not back to his best yet at the moment. Delon is by some
>>> way the best 15 England have, but he's also the best 13 and that's a
>>> problem position for us. Cipriani or Alex Goode are the bolter options.
>>>
>>> There's a mean side in there capable of playing more than one way, and
>>> leaving a bench with some real impact potential. For Gods sake I hope we
>>> don't waste these spots on the likes of White, Vickery, Worsley, Tindall
>>> and co.
>>>
>> Absolutely right but you know that MJ wont do it. Saxons games could be
>> more interesting than the main 6N.
>>>
>>>
>
> I may well have a season of following the Saxons. They were better than
> the main event last year by a long way.
Hmm, I wonder where France A v Saxons are playing......
John Williams
<unli...@elsewhere.com> wrote:
>
>"Simon S-B" <bait...@gmail.com> a �crit dans le message de
>news:hht6r5$8bo$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>
>> "Pure Salt" <unli...@elsewhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b420989$0$17523$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
>>>
>>> "Simon S-B" <bait...@gmail.com> a �crit dans le message de
>>> news:hhspk8$j5j$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[...]
>>>>Tim Payne is a solid option, and Jon Golding
>>>> looks the part. Both could do a job in the #1 shirt. I expect we'll see
>>>> Wilson and Bell in there, but I think Flatman should get a look in
>>>> although probably only for Saxons.
Roll on the next generation of props, just beginning to peep over the
scrum machines, such as Cole at Leicester. I was surprised to hear
that Golding is 27. The tight five remains the source of so many of
England's problems in my view, which leads on to...
>>>> Kennedy and Lawes enjoyed a good tussle at the weekend. I'd like to see
>>>> them both getting some 6N time, even if the best they can hope for is to
>>>> come on from the bench. Only an idiot would bet against Shaw and
>>>> Borthwick starting, and with Shaw alongside him I'd also be betting on
>>>> Borthwick having a decent 6N. Too soon for Gaskell who should be Saxons
>>>> bound.
So much depends on what Johnson sets as the goals for the 6Ns.
Presumably he will concentrate on the tournament in isolation, and not
look to the next WC, which is more what the Summer tour will be for (I
hope).
Grewcock not staying on as captain would be pretty surprising, but I
have my doubts about Shaw even in the short term. For me, he has been
a very fine club player who has seldom performed to (my, at any rate)
expectations for England.
>>>> Croft looks to be misfiring a bit and Lawes also plays 6 so he'd best
>>>> watch out or he'll have more than Haskell to worry about. I still think
>>>> there's room for Stefan Armitage in the England setup, but as an impact
>>>> option to Moody at the moment.
Croft seems to have been crocked a bit recently, and when he has been
playing, Leicester's form hasn't been so helpful for him. It really
worries me when Haskell, an athlete/gym man masquerading as a rugby
player if ever there was one, is considered a strong international
option. However either England have to play to Croft's strengths with
a faster more mobile game, and competition at the lineout, or a more
bruising player would do the job as well as him. eg bludgeoning a side
to defeat (not that England are really geared to try to bludgeon
anyone in the forwards at the moment).
[...]
>>>> There's a wealth of talent at 9. Hodgson, Care, Ellis, Youngs, Young is
>>>> probably the pecking order at the moment. I suspect we'll see all of
>>>> them in either the senior or the Saxons squad.
Ellis needs to show he has recovered some pace before he can be
selected again, even for the Saxons. He seems a bit crocked still,
unfortunately. Without that pace, which he seemed to lose after his 07
injury, his technical skills and speed of thought are too poor
compared with Hodgson or Wigglesworth, who look the pick to me
assuming fitness. Care looks short in decision making and passing. The
intriguing one is Youngs, who may develop into someone really good,
and might benefit from going into the Saxons asap. As ever when there
are so many options, it is good for the squad, especially if Johnson
chooses lucky.
>>>> For me, we need a flat
>>>> 10, and that's Flood, Geragthy and Myler. I'd also like to see Alex
>>>> Goode getting some gametime as well, possibly from 15. I'd have JW 12
>>>> for his experience, Delon at 13. A mean defensive midfield with a bit of
>>>> flair.
Sadly I haven't seen anything of Goode to date. Hopefully I will do so
soon.
It all depends on what the core strategy is for England. If it remains
territory and kicking for position as during the autumn games, then I
can't see a case for Wilkinson in the 22. He has always been a lousy
kicker from hand. Likewise Flood, who can kick well on occasion, but
makes too many simple errors from hand. Let's hope things are a little
more constructive than that, though. I'd prefer pace and more mobility
(never an England strength, except when they have been at their best).
>>> One match doesnt make form, but Flutey had a very good match for
Brive
>>> against Perpignan yesterday. I only saw some highlights but the newspaper
>>> reports are very positive.
>> I know he's likely, but I just don't think he should be eligible. I know
>> within the rules it's fine, but it leaves a bad taste with me.
>You wont find me dissagreeing with you on that one.
Hopefully there would be enough time for him to prove some fitness and
form beforehand.
>>>> The Ashton question is the big one.
[...]
Ashton has the look of the young Dan Lugar or Cueto about him to me,
in his try scoring. He surely should be playing for the Saxons at
least. Is Sackey fit enough now? I can't remember the last time I saw
him playing.
Banahan has never been an option and never will be... at wing anyway.
Maybe at blindside in place of Haskell for the Saxons. He has similar
ball skills.
>>> Absolutely right but you know that MJ wont do it. Saxons games could be
>>> more interesting than the main 6N.
>> I may well have a season of following the Saxons. They were better than
>> the main event last year by a long way.
Saxons are usually going to be more interesting than the tests from a
selection point of view, as all things being equal they are a chance
for the thrusting young Turks (oo er) to show what they can do.
Unfortunately the full team is too fragile for that to be true just
now. What would be very nice is the Saxons team to be stable with 10
or so people who might make a difference in the international team in
a season or two, which just happens to be WC time.
Expect (who I'd like)
Armitage (Armitage)
Branahan (Strettle, Ashton)
Hmm, lets hope Tindall isn't here (Hipkiss)
Wilkinson (Flood)
Cueto (Sackey)
Flood (Geraghty)
Hodgson (Wigglesworth - Hodgson fine too)
Payne (Oh dear. How mobile around the park is Golding?)
Hartley (Hartley)
Vickery if fit (Oh dear oh dear oh dear)
Shaw (Kennedy or Palmer if he is in good form -- no idea if
he is though)
Grewcock (Grewcock)
Haskell (Moody)
Moody (Armitage)
Easter (Crane)
With my bench including Croft, Lawes.
Why Crane at 8? He his a better footballer than anyone at 8 I can
think of except maybe Easter, who sadly is getting no younger. Why two
opensides? To add some mobility to the pack. Moody was possibly the
best England player in the autumn, but Armitage is probably the future
and is probably ready.
Cheers,
John Williams
(So f'ing bored at home with this snow I thought I'd pop in here for
the first time in ages. Nice to see a few names I know still around!)
Simon S-B
"John Williams" <jw99u...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cv89k5t5nht6u10i8...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 19:16:09 +0100, "Pure Salt"
> <unli...@elsewhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Simon S-B" <bait...@gmail.com> a �crit dans le message de
>>news:hht6r5$8bo$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Pure Salt" <unli...@elsewhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4b420989$0$17523$ba4a...@news.orange.fr...
>>>>
>>>> "Simon S-B" <bait...@gmail.com> a �crit dans le message de
>>>> news:hhspk8$j5j$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> [...]
>
>>>>>Tim Payne is a solid option, and Jon Golding
>>>>> looks the part. Both could do a job in the #1 shirt. I expect we'll
>>>>> see
>>>>> Wilson and Bell in there, but I think Flatman should get a look in
>>>>> although probably only for Saxons.
>
> Roll on the next generation of props, just beginning to peep over the
> scrum machines, such as Cole at Leicester. I was surprised to hear
> that Golding is 27. The tight five remains the source of so many of
> England's problems in my view, which leads on to...
>
There's a few that fit the bill that aren't available such as Corbisiero and
Stevens.
>>>>> Kennedy and Lawes enjoyed a good tussle at the weekend. I'd like to
>>>>> see
>>>>> them both getting some 6N time, even if the best they can hope for is
>>>>> to
>>>>> come on from the bench. Only an idiot would bet against Shaw and
>>>>> Borthwick starting, and with Shaw alongside him I'd also be betting on
>>>>> Borthwick having a decent 6N. Too soon for Gaskell who should be
>>>>> Saxons
>>>>> bound.
>
> So much depends on what Johnson sets as the goals for the 6Ns.
> Presumably he will concentrate on the tournament in isolation, and not
> look to the next WC, which is more what the Summer tour will be for (I
> hope).
>
Hmm. I'd rather see the RWC come into play now and get these players some
tournament experience.
> Grewcock not staying on as captain would be pretty surprising, but I
> have my doubts about Shaw even in the short term. For me, he has been
> a very fine club player who has seldom performed to (my, at any rate)
> expectations for England.
>
Think you mean Borthwick John, but I agree he will be captain. As for Shaw,
I disagree but I'm probably biased the other way on him as I think he
deserved more caps. Christ, Gareth Archer, Winters, Deacon - there are many
I can name he should have been ahead of.
>>>>> Croft looks to be misfiring a bit and Lawes also plays 6 so he'd best
>>>>> watch out or he'll have more than Haskell to worry about. I still
>>>>> think
>>>>> there's room for Stefan Armitage in the England setup, but as an
>>>>> impact
>>>>> option to Moody at the moment.
>
> Croft seems to have been crocked a bit recently, and when he has been
> playing, Leicester's form hasn't been so helpful for him. It really
> worries me when Haskell, an athlete/gym man masquerading as a rugby
> player if ever there was one, is considered a strong international
> option. However either England have to play to Croft's strengths with
> a faster more mobile game, and competition at the lineout, or a more
> bruising player would do the job as well as him. eg bludgeoning a side
> to defeat (not that England are really geared to try to bludgeon
> anyone in the forwards at the moment).
>
And to me this is the biggest problem. We're still trying to bludgeon a la
2003 but we simply don't have the players. We do have the players for a
faster more mobile game.
> [...]
>
>>>>> There's a wealth of talent at 9. Hodgson, Care, Ellis, Youngs, Young
>>>>> is
>>>>> probably the pecking order at the moment. I suspect we'll see all of
>>>>> them in either the senior or the Saxons squad.
>
> Ellis needs to show he has recovered some pace before he can be
> selected again, even for the Saxons. He seems a bit crocked still,
> unfortunately. Without that pace, which he seemed to lose after his 07
> injury, his technical skills and speed of thought are too poor
> compared with Hodgson or Wigglesworth, who look the pick to me
> assuming fitness. Care looks short in decision making and passing. The
> intriguing one is Youngs, who may develop into someone really good,
> and might benefit from going into the Saxons asap. As ever when there
> are so many options, it is good for the squad, especially if Johnson
> chooses lucky.
>
Care has yet to show me he can step up. Hodgson is better and as you say
Youngs is very interesting.
>>>>> For me, we need a flat
>>>>> 10, and that's Flood, Geragthy and Myler. I'd also like to see Alex
>>>>> Goode getting some gametime as well, possibly from 15. I'd have JW 12
>>>>> for his experience, Delon at 13. A mean defensive midfield with a bit
>>>>> of
>>>>> flair.
>
> Sadly I haven't seen anything of Goode to date. Hopefully I will do so
> soon.
>
> It all depends on what the core strategy is for England. If it remains
> territory and kicking for position as during the autumn games, then I
> can't see a case for Wilkinson in the 22. He has always been a lousy
> kicker from hand. Likewise Flood, who can kick well on occasion, but
> makes too many simple errors from hand. Let's hope things are a little
> more constructive than that, though. I'd prefer pace and more mobility
> (never an England strength, except when they have been at their best).
I'd settle for England displaying that they had a core strategy.
>>>> One match doesnt make form, but Flutey had a very good match for
> Brive
>>>> against Perpignan yesterday. I only saw some highlights but the
>>>> newspaper
>>>> reports are very positive.
>
>>> I know he's likely, but I just don't think he should be eligible. I know
>>> within the rules it's fine, but it leaves a bad taste with me.
>
>>You wont find me dissagreeing with you on that one.
>
> Hopefully there would be enough time for him to prove some fitness and
> form beforehand.
>
>>>>> The Ashton question is the big one.
>
> [...]
>
> Ashton has the look of the young Dan Lugar or Cueto about him to me,
> in his try scoring. He surely should be playing for the Saxons at
> least. Is Sackey fit enough now? I can't remember the last time I saw
> him playing.
>
Sackey is fit but allegedly not in Johnnos good books.
> Banahan has never been an option and never will be... at wing anyway.
> Maybe at blindside in place of Haskell for the Saxons. He has similar
> ball skills.
>
Impact option?
Nice to see you here John. Happy New Year.
John Williams
wrote:
[...]
>Think you mean Borthwick John, but I agree he will be captain. As for Shaw,
>I disagree but I'm probably biased the other way on him as I think he
>deserved more caps. Christ, Gareth Archer, Winters, Deacon - there are many
>I can name he should have been ahead of.
Oops, Grewcock indeed.... They do go together somehow in my mind. But
then internationally there have been too many more or less similarly
effective locks for England.
[...]
>> It all depends on what the core strategy is for England.
[...]
>I'd settle for England displaying that they had a core strategy.
Indeed!
>> Is Sackey fit enough now? I can't remember the last time I saw
>> him playing.
>Sackey is fit but allegedly not in Johnnos good books.
Ok. Seems strange, though he diid get dropped towards the end of the
last 6Ns.
>Nice to see you here John. Happy New Year.
Thanks! And seasonal best wishes too all from me too.
Cheers,
John Williams
Brent Hadley
> "John Williams" <jw99use...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > It all depends on what the core strategy is for England. If it remains
> > territory and kicking for position as during the autumn games, then I
> > can't see a case for Wilkinson in the 22. He has always been a lousy
> > kicker from hand. Likewise Flood, who can kick well on occasion, but
> > makes too many simple errors from hand. Let's hope things are a little
> > more constructive than that, though. I'd prefer pace and more mobility
> > (never an England strength, except when they have been at their best).
>
> I'd settle for England displaying that they had a core strategy.
Playing to keep the score down and hoping you win the referee lottery
is a core strategy.
It's just not a good one.
Cheers
Brent