'Ocean' rowing - not impressed.
Alistair Potts
Good for you. But look, rowing a very very long way is merely a
challenge against terminal boredom.
Sailing across the oceans in a little boat is cool - single-handed is
awesome. I'm well impressed if you swim across the channel. I'll even
cheer you on if you walk up Everest on stilts, pointless as it is,
because it's something that I could never do. If there's a level of
knowledge & skill to do your thing that sets you apart from the rest of
us, then fair play to you.
But rowing very slowly for a very very long time...? OK it's a free
world, go for it, maybe for your next trick you can drive round the M25
for a couple of months.
AJP
(rsr needs a new thread I don't like all this MI5 junk)
David Biddulph
news:4571391b$0$1395$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
So you're not supporting Roz Savage's application for membership of Leander
Club, then, Alistair?
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/6159871.stm)
I see from the BBC article referenced above that she threatended to found
Meander Club, but she's too late to do that as I've been a member for 20
years. Meander Club was founded many years ago by members of the skiffing
fraternity (and open to the sorority too, if qualified!), for those who have
skiffed (within 4 days, if my memory serves me right) the length of the
navigable non-tidal Thames, from Lechlade to Teddington.
--
David Biddulph
Rowing web pages at
http://www.biddulph.org.uk/
Chris Kerr
Well, in that case she will just have to found a "Neander Club", unless
there already is one in the Neander Tal (apparently it's a valley in
Germany, where the first Neanderthal fossils were discovered).
I don't really want to have to think about how one would pronounce Oeander,
which would be the next available name if that was the case...
anto...@aol.com
I think Leander are spot on.....
Hers was not a race....so she is in error comparing to the Boat Race.
Do all the women's boat race crews get membership? The standard is not
that high, or not as highas themens race.
she wrote
"Well, I don't want to be a member of any club that doesn't want me as
a member."
Issue solved and over.
Jonathan Anderson
> Do all the women's boat race crews get membership?
Yes.
Jon
--
Durge: j...@durge.org http://users.durge.org/~jon/
OnStream: acco...@rowing.org.uk http://www.rowing.org.uk/
[ All views expressed are personal unless otherwise stated ]
Sarah F
(RTJ/RQ can correct me if I'm wrong here).
It used to be that the winning women's Blue Boat were invited to take
Leander membership. This year they also extended that to the losing
women's Blue Boat AND the winning Lwt men's crew. I think there was
also some discussion at the press conference in race week about
allowing the losing lwt men's crew in too if they were deemed to be a
high enough standard. The lwt women were not even mentioned.
Roz Savage talks about having a 'half blue' so with a bit of detective
work I discovered that she stroked OUWLRC in 1989 when they got beaten
by Cambridge by 1 length. So as far as I can tell she was a lightweight
woman.
Personally, I'm not completely convinced that racing in the HBRs should
give you entitlement to be a member of Leander. I don't think the
lightweight women should be excluded if the lightweight men are going
to be allowed membership, or if the losing hwt women are (especially
since in recent years there have been occasions where the winnig lwt
women have been faster than the losing heavyweight women) - but that
isn't the issue that's being discussed here.
I don't think this sort of thing should have really become a public
spat though. It doesn't exactly do the reputation of the sport any
favours amongst the public and makes the person whining about it sound
a bit petty!
Sarah
David Biddulph
news:1165077439.3...@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> Jonathan Anderson wrote:
>
>> anto...@aol.com wrote:
>> > Do all the women's boat race crews get membership?
>>
>> Yes.
> Not quite...
> (RTJ/RQ can correct me if I'm wrong here).
>
> It used to be that the winning women's Blue Boat were invited to take
> Leander membership. This year they also extended that to the losing
> women's Blue Boat AND the winning Lwt men's crew. I think there was
> also some discussion at the press conference in race week about
> allowing the losing lwt men's crew in too if they were deemed to be a
> high enough standard. The lwt women were not even mentioned.
I thought I remembered some time in the past that there was a defined margin
within which another crew (perhaps the lightweight women) had to finish
compared with the blue boat if they were to be eligible?
> Roz Savage talks about having a 'half blue' so with a bit of detective
> work I discovered that she stroked OUWLRC in 1989 when they got beaten
> by Cambridge by 1 length. So as far as I can tell she was a lightweight
> woman.
She said she'd had to lose 15lb to get into that crew. In 1988 she'd rowed
in the Osiris crew (which won on a disqualification).
...
> I don't think this sort of thing should have really become a public
> spat though. It doesn't exactly do the reputation of the sport any
> favours amongst the public and makes the person whining about it sound
> a bit petty!
Agreed.
Jonathan Anderson
> It used to be that the winning women's Blue Boat were invited to take
> Leander membership. This year they also extended that to the losing
> women's Blue Boat AND the winning Lwt men's crew.
That's what I meant FWIW.
Jeremy Fagan
> Not quite...
> (RTJ/RQ can correct me if I'm wrong here).
>
> It used to be that the winning women's Blue Boat were invited to take
> Leander membership. This year they also extended that to the losing
> women's Blue Boat AND the winning Lwt men's crew. I think there was
> also some discussion at the press conference in race week about
> allowing the losing lwt men's crew in too if they were deemed to be a
> high enough standard. The lwt women were not even mentioned.
You still need proposing and seconding, I think, and 5 years ago they
were accepting losing lwt men - they let me in..
Jeremy
anto...@aol.com
She is rowing the Pacific and she will have a press/public relations
team around her who will have said "This is an excellent opportunity
for press coverage and exposure"
Bit like Jessica Simpson calling the Dallas Cowboys Quarterback for a
date when she found out he had a crush on her.....Poor fella......
liz
<anto...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1165108264.9...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> She is rowing the Pacific and she will have a press/public relations
> team around her
i doubt it
Christopher Anton
"Chris Kerr" <cj...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:45716b27$0$97246$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
> Well, in that case she will just have to found a "Neander Club", unless
> there already is one in the Neander Tal (apparently it's a valley in
> Germany, where the first Neanderthal fossils were discovered).
> I don't really want to have to think about how one would pronounce
> Oeander,
> which would be the next available name if that was the case...
Neaderthals were actually discovered in the Du(e)ssel valley. The valley
having been renamed Neaderthal after Joachim Neander a Calvinist hymn writer
to liked to walk and explore there as well as hold services. There's no
connection to the river Neander AFAIK.
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Hello Alistair, have you ever read and accounts of single
handed crossings of the Atlantic or Pacific? Might give you
a little insight as to what is involved.
Tim Wise
anto...@aol.com
Why? She will be raising sponsorship and looking for exposure. She will
definitely have access to some sort of marketing/PR function.
I didn't know what she had done previously or what she was about to do
until this report
Sarah F
David Biddulph wrote:
>
> I thought I remembered some time in the past that there was a defined margin
> within which another crew (perhaps the lightweight women) had to finish
> compared with the blue boat if they were to be eligible?
That's nothing to do with Leander membership as far as I know. I think
you're confusing the standard by which the lightweight crew must reach
in order to be able to apply for Full Blue status to their University
Blues Committee. I'm not quite sure how the Oxford system works, but at
Cambridge, for a sport of Half Blue status, the crew/individual
competing has to have done something of a nationally high standard to
be eligible to apply for exceptional Full Blue status, and that needs
to be agreed upon by the other clubs on the Blues Commitee. So for
instance, if the lwt women won their boat race, came very close to the
Blue Boat's time over the course, had previously come in the top 10 at
WeHoRR, and won a Gold medal in Championship 8s at BUSA, then they
would have probably achieved enough to have a realisitic chance of
getting their Full Blues awarded by the committee.
As I said before, when they invited the other crews to Leander
membership at last year's HBR press conference, the 2 new crews were
offered automatic membership, and the only crew mentioned that *might*
be able to qualify was the losing lwt men's crew. No losing *standard*
was defined though.
>
> > Roz Savage talks about having a 'half blue' so with a bit of detective
> > work I discovered that she stroked OUWLRC in 1989 when they got beaten
> > by Cambridge by 1 length. So as far as I can tell she was a lightweight
> > woman.
>
> She said she'd had to lose 15lb to get into that crew. In 1988 she'd rowed
> in the Osiris crew (which won on a disqualification).
>
Right so she's been a lightweight and previously a winning 2nd boat
rower, which won by default! :) That's not Full Blue status. I can't
see how that compares to a a Full Blue awarded by CUBC or OUBC. Goldie
and Isis don't get automatic Leander Club membership, do they?
Sarah
Alistair Potts
Tim.J...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello Alistair, have you ever read and accounts of single
> handed crossings of the Atlantic or Pacific? Might give you
> a little insight as to what is involved.
I know a few people very well who've done it, although not singly, and a
few more less well who've done it too.
My point is: pretty much anyone on this newsgroup could do it. Really.
They'd hate it, but they could do it. There's no kudos (to my mind) for
doing something that no-one else wants to.
A huge amount of effort goes into organization and teams to keep the
rowers safe. If you're going to devote all that time and effort to doing
something cool, I'd be much more impressed if you chose something that
sets you apart in a way no-more impressive than sitting in a bath of
baked beans for six weeks.
Plus (while I'm on a roll) those daft boats that you have to have to
keep all your water, bed, survival kit etc. remove the entire enjoyment
from the rowing bit, and just reduce it to a godawful slog.
A
Ewoud Dronkert
> Plus (while I'm on a roll)
I like it.
--
E. Dronkert
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Are you sure anyone on this newsgroup could do it?
I seem to recall Peter Haining
(http://www.regatta.rowing.org.uk/cd.html
and Gearoid Towey,
(http://www.atlanticchallenge.ie/htm/mediacentre/news.php?id=63) both
flat water rowers with World Championships behind them
unable to make it across "the pond" for a variety of reasons,
even with all that organization around them.
Of course Mr Cracknell did somewhat better.
The boats certainly don't look like a lot of fun to row, but
they do get you across an ocean. A racing scull certainly
won't do that. (English Channel excepted.)
It's some what ironic that you don't care much or the achievements
or open water rowers, the same attitude is mirrored by the general
populace towards the Olympic class of rowing.
Still, to each his own.
Good Rowing.
Tim
Carl
C
anto...@aol.com
Its great impressive...so she should join the premier OCEAN ROWING club.
Sarah F
Tim.J...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Of course Mr Cracknell did somewhat better.
>
> The boats certainly don't look like a lot of fun to row, but
> they do get you across an ocean. A racing scull certainly
> won't do that. (English Channel excepted.)
>
> It's some what ironic that you don't care much or the achievements
> or open water rowers, the same attitude is mirrored by the general
> populace towards the Olympic class of rowing.
>
> Still, to each his own.
>
> Good Rowing.
>
> Tim
Is Ben Fogle a full member of Leander Club then?
Sarah
Robert Treharne Jones
membership
Robert
anto...@aol.com
Tim
What a load of complete bollocks!
The final of the 4- in Sydney was one of the most watched races of any
sport given it happened in the middle of the night. Redgrave WON sports
Personality of the year at the BBC awards and they made a TV [program
about the whole thing.
Athens saw immense interest in the 4-.
Seriously mate......take the chip off the shoulder. Al is spot on.
happy_john
Goldie ought to qualify given that they won the Ladies in 2005.
Mike Sullivan
"Alistair Potts" <alistair.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4571391b$0$1395$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> Good for you. But look, rowing a very very long way is merely a challenge
> against terminal boredom.
I second Alistair's sentiment. The biggest issue for me is that
weather is the single most important factor in the success of
that sort of rowing venture. If you could count on good weather
the whole way, get into the proper wind and water current
flow, and stock up your boat, you could manage it even being
out of shape, as over time you could start very slow and row
your way into shape.
It's similar to a lot of mountain climbing, where rather average
climbers are making impressive sounding ascents, made all
the more impressive sounding since experts have died there due to
sudden storms. When luck is that important, the athletic
achievement is not so notable.
My problem with the cross-ocean rowing is that when they
get in trouble, they then endanger commercial craft and
coast guard personnel trying to rescue them who are duty
bound to do so. The first several dozens that have done so
should enjoy the beers, but I'm in favor of the larger rowing
community yawning at future attempts, and supporting billing
the rescued for the cost of their rescue.
Taniwha
Alistair Potts wrote:
> My point is: pretty much anyone on this newsgroup could do it. Really.
> They'd hate it, but they could do it. There's no kudos (to my mind) for
> doing something that no-one else wants to.
>
No-one being what percentage? 99.9 percent of the human race don't want
to row. What does that say about you? ;^)
Taniwha
Tim.J...@gmail.com
You are right Anton, it was a very watched event. And the next time
it was watched in any great numbers was about 4 years later whereas
as football, cricket, golf etc seemed to be part of people's everyday
life.
I don't really see how recognizing my chosen sport doesn't exactly
draw much attention except when someone wins five gold or conversely
stops rowing three quarters of the way through a race constitutes
having a chip on my shoulder. Or for suggesting that perhaps open
water is a legitimate sport just as flat water rowing.
Tim Wise
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Mike Sullivan wrote:
> "Alistair Potts" <alistair.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4571391b$0$1395$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
> > So you've rowed across the Atlantic / Pacific / whatever.
> >
> > Good for you. But look, rowing a very very long way is merely a challenge
> > against terminal boredom.
>
> I second Alistair's sentiment. The biggest issue for me is that
> weather is the single most important factor in the success of
> that sort of rowing venture. If you could count on good weather
> the whole way, get into the proper wind and water current
> flow, and stock up your boat, you could manage it even being
> out of shape, as over time you could start very slow and row
> your way into shape.
> It's similar to a lot of mountain climbing, where rather average
> climbers are making impressive sounding ascents, made all
> the more impressive sounding since experts have died there due to
> sudden storms. When luck is that important, the athletic
> achievement is not so notable.
>
> My problem with the cross-ocean rowing is that when they
> get in trouble, they then endanger commercial craft and
> coast guard personnel trying to rescue them who are duty
> bound to do so. The first several dozens that have done so
> should enjoy the beers, but I'm in favor of the larger rowing
> community yawning at future attempts, and supporting billing
> the rescued for the cost of their rescue.
I disagree with most of this Mike but there is one absolute gem
that should be drummed into to every rower weather on a pond
or on "the pond".
"weather is the single most important factor in the success of
(that) sort of rowing venture."
Tim Wise
Mike Sullivan
<Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165271421.0...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Sullivan wrote:
>> "Alistair Potts" <alistair.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4571391b$0$1395$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>> > So you've rowed across the Atlantic / Pacific / whatever.
>> >
>> > Good for you. But look, rowing a very very long way is merely a
>> > challenge
>> > against terminal boredom.
>>
>> I second Alistair's sentiment. The biggest issue for me is that
>> weather is the single most important factor in the success of
>> that sort of rowing venture. If you could count on good weather
>> the whole way, get into the proper wind and water current
>> flow, and stock up your boat, you could manage it even being
>> out of shape, as over time you could start very slow and row
>> your way into shape.
> (t>
>> It's similar to a lot of mountain climbing, where rather average
>> climbers are making impressive sounding ascents, made all
> I disagree with most of this Mike but there is one absolute gem
> that should be drummed into to every rower weather on a pond
> or on "the pond".
>
> "weather is the single most important factor in the success of
> (that) sort of rowing venture."
I don't agree with that. For example, when I trained as a sculler
in Newport bay in the 70s, weather could be a factor as to whether
I could get my single on the water some days, but it was not
a factor at all in my attempts to be a world class speed sculler.
There was never a situation in that location, that with my fitness
and skill that my life was ever in danger, nor did weather
seriously hinder my training - indeed I could still progress while
not getting on the water by running, lifting, erging etc.
Indeed, it's the primary goal of all this safety talk we do here to try to
eliminate weather as an important factor of rowing competition.
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Weather does affect whether you boat today or not, and it does affect
the quality
of training, it would be an interesting study to see if a reduction in
on water training affected one's overall career.
How far did you get?
Currently my home rowing club and personal training is very badly
effected by the weather, 18 months on the erg with at least 3 more
years to come.
tim
anto...@aol.com
Tim
You are really being silly. Football is played 40 times a season in the
Premiership, There are weekly golf games and same with Cricket and
Rugby
Rowing has 4 major events every 4 years and then some world cups and
the odd Boat Race. All receive very good coverage and the Boat Race is
one of the most watched sporting events in the year globally and
nationally.
Your original post suggested people do not care for the sport...not
that it is part of peoples everyday life. Don't change the core of your
arguement mid flow is is very bad practice.
No one is suggesting that Open Water rowing is not a legitimate sport.
But lets be honest, both BaseBall and Cricket hit balls thrown at
players with bats. they are not the same sport and the MCC will not be
inviting the Red Sox in for tea. Leander is merely recognizing this in
its own context.
Tim.J...@gmail.com
In way am I silly for suggesting that rowing is a low profile sport for
the
most part? Try finding the results for a local regatta in the weekend
papers sport section an you'll know what I mean. Thank god for the
Internet, it was only about 1995 we could get near real time results
for the world championships.
I'm not changing my argument, the average person doesn't not care,
has no interest, not generally aware of the sport of rowing. Ask
any club secretary who has tried to get a press release or
some publicity in the local rag. ( I do find this confounding,
if I had a dollar for everytime some said "I use to row....")
You if care to read what posted and even if you disagree you
will note that at no point did I mention Leander Rowing Club,
who have their membership rules and are free to impose them as
they see fit.
Tim Wise
anto...@aol.com
Re your middle paragraph, I believe you are quite wrong.
Any local small town football team would have the same issues.
You should start comparing apples to apples.
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Do you believe that I am changing my argument or that people do
have a general interest in rowing? I'm sure that many small sport
bodies have similar problems, proportional to the popularity.
I'm not sure about the apples to apples comparision, can you give me an
example?
Tim Wise
David Biddulph
news:1165275594.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
...
> You if care to read what posted and even if you disagree you
> will note that at no point did I mention Leander Rowing Club,
> who have their membership rules and are free to impose them as
> they see fit.
<pedant>
"Leander Club" *not* "Leander Rowing Club"
</pedant>
--
David Biddulph
Rowing web pages at
http://www.biddulph.org.uk/
Ewoud Dronkert
> I'm not changing my argument, the average person doesn't not care,
> has no interest, not generally aware of the sport of rowing. Ask
> any club secretary who has tried to get a press release or
> some publicity in the local rag.
When I was a junior, I always wrote a little report about the regional
rowing competitions we competed in and it always got printed in the
Baarnsche Courant. But hey, that might be saying more about that paper
than about the public's interest or even my writing skills.
--
E. Dronkert
Tim.J...@gmail.com
I stand corrected, although at no point did I mention "Leander Club"
either.
Tim Wise
Tim.J...@gmail.com
We use to do much the same thing, with mixed success.
However Rowing just doesn't register with the general public,
Ask around the office who the reigning Olympic single sculler is,
blank looks, any sculler, blank looks, any rower...
Ask about cricket and you can get the score minute by minute etc.
(At least while the Ashes are on).
Tim
David Biddulph
news:1165306994.7...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
..
> Ask about cricket and you can get the score minute by minute etc.
> (At least while the Ashes are on).
Please don't talk about the Ashes. :-(
Tim.J...@gmail.com
There is always the next Test....
Tim
Alistair Potts
The difference is that I don't make a big song-and-dance about just
going rowing. I'm all in favour of people rowing across oceans if that's
what they want to do, but it almost always comes with an assumption that
it's a 'challenge' and worthy of sponsorship, acclamation etc.
And it's not really rowing either. Rowing takes years to get really good
- just rowing well sets you apart as having achieved something special.
I'm in awe of anyone who can scull competently. But those ocean boats
are not much different skill-wise to the tubs anyone can hire at the
park. Which makes it even less of a challenge.
Each to his own, but don't expect a cheer when you arrive in Barbados
looking like Ben Gunn. Ocean rowing is a tedious, self-indulgent,
skill-less waste of time.
A
Carl
> <Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165306994.7...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> ..
>
>>Ask about cricket and you can get the score minute by minute etc.
>>(At least while the Ashes are on).
>
>
> Please don't talk about the Ashes. :-(
You can always trust Aussies to intrude upon the private grief of
others. Absolutely no sensitivity!
:(
C
Carl
>
> Each to his own, but don't expect a cheer when you arrive in Barbados
> looking like Ben Gunn. Ocean rowing is a tedious, self-indulgent,
> skill-less waste of time.
>
> A
And flat-water rowing, as most rowers practise it, is a highly skilled,
self-sacrificing & deeply beneficial - nay monastic - cause to which to
dedicate a life.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JY, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
Tim.J...@gmail.com
That just about evens things up for that rugby match
a couple of years ago, that really wasn't that important. :0
Tim
Tim.J...@gmail.com
I guess the song and dance comes with the sponsorship that you need
if you want to race. Most sponsors want a little soft shoe for their
money.
For me it's a plus as somebody's hobby is not being subsidized by my
taxes.
I think you'll find it is rowing, may not be what we know or prefer
but is rowing. Certainly more familiar than gondola or a Traghetto?
(two place gondola) which is still rowing, but not as we know it Jim.
The skills for ocean rowing are different than for flat water rowers,
and you could be right that the forward stroke technique is somewhat
less developed than an Olympic rower but it possible that a more
economical (lazy) stroke is required to cover several thousand kms.
I think you find those tubs at the park handle like an Empacher in
comparison to an ocean rowing boat, their stability does take
the skill out of having to sit the boat but handy if you want to
have a sleep or have a crap over the side.
And yes it takes years to learn to scull, except if your
Adair Ferguson and can go from novice to World Champion
in 18 months. (Women's lightweight sculler, AUS 1985).
It's been fun, let's agree to disagree.
Tim
Jeremy Fagan
> Tim.J...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>>In way am I silly for suggesting that rowing is a low profile sport for
>>the
>>most part? Try finding the results for a local regatta in the weekend
>>papers sport section an you'll know what I mean. Thank god for the
>>Internet, it was only about 1995 we could get near real time results
>>for the world championships.
>>
>>I'm not changing my argument, the average person doesn't not care,
>>has no interest, not generally aware of the sport of rowing. Ask
>>any club secretary who has tried to get a press release or
>>some publicity in the local rag. ( I do find this confounding,
>>if I had a dollar for everytime some said "I use to row....")
>>
>>You if care to read what posted and even if you disagree you
>>will note that at no point did I mention Leander Rowing Club,
>>who have their membership rules and are free to impose them as
>>they see fit.
>>
>>Tim Wise
>
>
> Re your middle paragraph, I believe you are quite wrong.
>
> Any local small town football team would have the same issues.
In Tamworth, Staffs, UK (my home town), Tamworth FC was pretty much the
sports sections of the local paper. But they still had time for articles
about Atherstone United, Bolebridge, Mile Oak Rovers, Sunday leagues,
junior leagues, etc. Other sports did get a look in though. There was no
rowing club, but in Burton, the next town up, their coverage of rowing
was reasonable - although we had to provide the copy, they would add a
(usually wrong, and invariably cheesy) headline, and a picture 3 years
out of date.
Football has _no_ problems getting coverage.
Jeremy
Hannah
> And flat-water rowing, as most rowers practise it, is a highly skilled,
> self-sacrificing & deeply beneficial - nay monastic - cause to which to
> dedicate a life.
huh, I thought that rowing was just somthing we coxes made people to
facilitate our "steering and shouting" competitions.
Hannah
> And flat-water rowing, as most rowers practise it, is a highly skilled,
> self-sacrificing & deeply beneficial - nay monastic - cause to which to
> dedicate a life.
huh, I thought that rowing was just somthing we coxes made people do to
KC
>>> that should be drummed into to every rower weather on a pond
>>> or on "the pond".
>>>
>>> "weather is the single most important factor in the success of
>>> (that) sort of rowing venture."
>> I don't agree with that. For example, when I trained as a sculler
>> in Newport bay in the 70s, weather could be a factor as to whether
>> I could get my single on the water some days, but it was not
>> a factor at all in my attempts to be a world class speed sculler.
>>
>> There was never a situation in that location, that with my fitness
>> and skill that my life was ever in danger, nor did weather
>> seriously hinder my training - indeed I could still progress while
>> not getting on the water by running, lifting, erging etc.
>>
>> Indeed, it's the primary goal of all this safety talk we do here to try to
>> eliminate weather as an important factor of rowing competition.
>
> Weather does affect whether you boat today or not, and it does affect
> the quality
> of training, it would be an interesting study to see if a reduction in
> on water training affected one's overall career.
Overall, I feel that water time is secondary to physical conditioning,
and physiological (genetic) superiority. Witness the success of Harvard
compared to every single west-coast or southern rowing program in the
country. Cal and Washington get GOBS more water time than Harvard or
any other Northeast US university. Yet without checking sources, I
think it's safe to say Harvard has the winningest record of US
university crews for the last 100 years. Some may argue that this is
due to superior recruiting, they draw better talent. True, and what has
that "better talent" have that the less talented recruits of other
schools do not have? Physiological superiority, by and large. Granted,
Harry Parker is a superior coach as well, but Harvard's (and other
Northeast schools) superior (compared to west coast schools) record(s)
go beyond Parker's coaching era.
If water time were THAT important, Washington, Cal, UCLA, Stanford (and
other warm-weather crews) would dominate the US rowing scene year in,
and year out.
Personally, I think Stanford has it all: great weather year round, a
brand new boat house, academic prestige, AND they are not prohibited
from offering scholarships as the Ivy leagues are. Washington has
nearly the same qualities, but not quite as good weather, and not quite
as good academic prestige (don't get me wrong, UW is a fantastic school
academically, I'm just commenting on the opinion of the general public
of the prestige of these schools... STN seems to be more prestigious).
Cal... well, Cal is doing just fine under Gladstone. ;^)
> How far did you get?
>
> Currently my home rowing club and personal training is very badly
> effected by the weather, 18 months on the erg with at least 3 more
> years to come.
18 months on the erg? Where is this rowing club, Antarctica?
-Kieran
Mike Sullivan
<Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165273604.6...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Sullivan wrote:
>> <Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1165271421.0...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> to
>> eliminate weather as an important factor of rowing competition.
>
> Weather does affect whether you boat today or not, and it does affect
> the quality
> of training, it would be an interesting study to see if a reduction in
> on water training affected one's overall career.
>
> How far did you get?
2000 meters!
joking aside, heart probs before '76 trials, 2nd in 2- trials
and 2- natls in '74, 4th in elite 1X at US nat'ls '75.
>
> Currently my home rowing club and personal training is very badly
> effected by the weather, 18 months on the erg with at least 3 more
> years to come.
I think it makes a difference in a certain range of ability/skill/strength.
As you are growing, there is a premium on athleticism, so any
sort of aerobic and strength training will still advance the cause.
As a college age athlete, it doesn't hurt to be off the water for
a few months at a time, as progress can be made physically
off the water, and there's a lot of learning to do when you get
on the water.
Competitive athletes who've reached a strong level of competence
can benefit from more specific year-round miles. The specific
aerobic training does more good, and the technical improvements
become more marginal, more difficult to achieve, but bring a
large payoff.
Someone who's reached top elite level, may be at a point
where (s)he isn't going to improve a lot, year round water
mileage isn't so important, maintaining fitness level, and
slight improvement in aerobic capactity and technique are
achievable, but the primary organ to keep advancing is the head.
I also think that heavy mileage on the water is most useful for
a long term basis, and can be a bit counterproductive
the year you do it, it tends to teach survival strokes and not
effective speed.
If you are a good athlete, spinning perhaps in the 6:15 range
on the erg and under 24 (still have maturing to do), you should
liberally mix in non-erg aerobic work to increase your aerobic
volume. Aerobic volume will drop the 6:15 to the low 6.s
as your VO efficiency improves.
Mike
Mike Sullivan
> Taniwha wrote:
>> Alistair Potts wrote:
>>
snip
> Each to his own, but don't expect a cheer when you arrive in Barbados
> looking like Ben Gunn. Ocean rowing is a tedious, self-indulgent,
> skill-less waste of time.
I had this argument with my bride over these super endurance events.
In the Sierras, they have this event called the Western States marathon
which horse ppl ride their horses 100 miles, and many ppl run it.
She's constantly pointing at old farts (60-70 yr old ppl) who are
finishing these things. She claims it to be an incredible athletic
achievement.
My answer is that if it was athletic, athletes would be doing it.
I see a LOT of old farts succeeding. My answer to her is that they've
got nothing better to do, plodding along all day and all night in
quiet loneliness is better than hanging around gardening waiting for
the kids to call someday.
Besides, I suspect old farts lose all their nerve endings, there's either
enough background noise of pain, or they don't feel it, or no
longer care.
Jake
Alistair Potts wrote:
> So you've rowed across the Atlantic / Pacific / whatever.
>
> Good for you. But look, rowing a very very long way is merely a
> challenge against terminal boredom.
>
> Sailing across the oceans in a little boat is cool - single-handed is
> awesome. I'm well impressed if you swim across the channel. I'll even
> cheer you on if you walk up Everest on stilts, pointless as it is,
> because it's something that I could never do. If there's a level of
> knowledge & skill to do your thing that sets you apart from the rest of
> us, then fair play to you.
>
> But rowing very slowly for a very very long time...? OK it's a free
> world, go for it, maybe for your next trick you can drive round the M25
> for a couple of months.
As a former single handed yachtsman, turned river rower, turned coastal
rower, soon to turn ocean rower, I couldn't resist sticking my oar in
on this one.
Some of your points are quite correct. Ocean rowing does not require
much in the way of the balance and coordination type skills that river
rowing requires. It could, and has, been described as a mindless slog.
You could even argue it is more 'ocean blowing' than rowing, as the
weather sometimes has more effect on the outcome than the rowing does.
However it does require a whole package of other knowledge and skills
such as navigation, weather routing, the ability not to go mad (please
see the forthcoming film Deep Water on national UK release from 15th
December), the ability to cope with pain and discomfort for protracted
periods and not give up. Lots of people do give up. Including rowers,
even some good ones.
Having said all that, I have a lot more respect for those that
undertake ocean rows outside of the safety net of the organised
Atlantic procession. One example of this that caught my imagination is
the http://www.rowextreme.com expedition, although it eventually proved
to be a little too far outside of the safety net to continue my
involvement, though I firmly believe a fully crewed round the World
Ocean row is the last great achievable challenge, I have just chosen to
go about it a different (and more clement) way!
Interestingly 3 of the 5 Row extreme crew are from a rowing background.
A lot has happened since the Peter Haining episode mentioned earlier in
this post, which has subsequently been described to me with relish by
ocean rowers from more down to earth backgrounds who finished the race.
I think a main reason for the dramatic change of fortunes of world
class oarsmen turned ocean rowers between Haining and Cracknell was the
need for the organisers of such events to ensure that expectations of
flat water rowers undertaking an ocean row were more accurately
managed. Nowadays it is drummed into them that knowing how a GPS works,
or how to prevent salt water sores is often more important than their
Vo2 max or what medals they won. Rowers do well in ocean rowing due to
their (similar movement specific) high aerobic base fitness, that's
about it, apart from knowing a bit about rigging and biodynamics.
Still, in my opinion there is still a lot of work for ex river rowers
to impress some elements of the Ocean rowing clan and I'm sure Roz's
efforts will help this cause.
Comments like yours, Alistair, which incidentally has been useful as it
has provoked comment, are exactly the type of thing that established
ocean rowers from non rowing backgrounds expect to hear from river
rowers, which is fine, they are vastly different sports, as long as we
recognise that your comments on water polo would probably be of similar
value.
Mike Sullivan
"KC" <kc_...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:el452u$8ie$1...@prometheus.acsu.buffalo.edu...
snip
>> Weather does affect whether you boat today or not, and it does affect
>> the quality
>> of training, it would be an interesting study to see if a reduction in
>> on water training affected one's overall career.
>
> Overall, I feel that water time is secondary to physical conditioning, and
> physiological (genetic) superiority. Witness the success of Harvard
> compared to every single west-coast or southern rowing program in the
> country. Cal and Washington get GOBS more water time than Harvard or any
> other Northeast US university. Yet without checking sources, I think it's
> safe to say Harvard has the winningest record of US university crews for
> the last 100 years. Some may argue that this is due to superior
> recruiting, they draw better talent. True, and what has that "better
> talent" have that the less talented recruits of other schools do not have?
> Physiological superiority, by and large. Granted, Harry Parker is a
> superior coach as well, but Harvard's (and other Northeast schools)
> superior (compared to west coast schools) record(s) go beyond Parker's
> coaching era.
The most successful programs over time is where there is
institutional commitment, and in the history of college rowing
the amount of water time in the winter is not a huge factor.
One thing you didn't mention though, is tanks. Tanks to me
is 'water time'. True the 'boat' is absolutely stable, but
tanked crews do a lot of work, not just technical, and they
spend a lot of time patterning in rowing technique at pressure,
it's more specific than ergs really.
I've long talked to West Coast coaches about spending too
much time rowing all eight, to do more work by sixes in a
very stable platform to reinforce body mechanics.
It's funny when the ice bound college crews hit San Diego
for their spring break after two months in the tanks. The
pasty skinned studs and studdettes can barely balance the
shell, it flops back and forth, but the athletes are long,
together, and bladework crisp. Within a few days of
mileage the feel starts getting worked out.
There's a yin/yang thing between rowing a boat and
balancing it, a lot of time in a racing single or rowing
all eight can teach defensiveness rather than good rowing.
"we're well balanced so we must be fast" is a
common mistake here in the WC.
Mike
Mike Sullivan
"Jake" <jake....@rya.org.uk> wrote in message
news:1165346861....@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Alistair Potts wrote:
>
snip
> Comments like yours, Alistair, which incidentally has been useful as it
> has provoked comment, are exactly the type of thing that established
> ocean rowers from non rowing backgrounds expect to hear from river
> rowers, which is fine, they are vastly different sports, as long as we
> recognise that your comments on water polo would probably be of similar
> value.
You just re-worded Alistair's comments and made his case.
Indeed, Water Polo has more in common with rowing than ocean crossings
has with rowing other than the oars and sliding seat thing.
I understand empty beer cans cross the ocean all the time.
Tankers and freighters in the open ocean have a lot of
real work to do, leave them be.
Mike
Jonathan Anderson
> Comments like yours, Alistair, which incidentally has been useful as it
> has provoked comment, are exactly the type of thing that established
> ocean rowers from non rowing backgrounds expect to hear from river
> rowers, which is fine, they are vastly different sports, as long as we
> recognise that your comments on water polo would probably be of similar
> value.
That's exactly it. Vastly different sports. So an ocean rower should not
expect just to walk into membership of an elite river rowing club.
Jon
--
Durge: j...@durge.org http://users.durge.org/~jon/
OnStream: acco...@rowing.org.uk http://www.rowing.org.uk/
[ All views expressed are personal unless otherwise stated ]
Alistair Potts
> Comments like yours, Alistair, which incidentally has been useful as it
> has provoked comment, are exactly the type of thing that established
> ocean rowers from non rowing backgrounds expect to hear from river
> rowers, which is fine, they are vastly different sports, as long as we
> recognise that your comments on water polo would probably be of similar
> value.
Water polo is difficult to master. It's highly competitive. To do it
well you have to train very very hard. It's exciting to watch. I could
never do it to any level of meaningful competency. Etc etc.
Ocean rowing a sport! That's the silliest thing I've heard this week.
Here are more talent-free tedium zones we could turn into sports -
* Walking - but upstairs! And then back to where you began.
* Texting your mum without looking up the number
* Operating a TV remote control without looking
* Egg boiling - knowledge of cooker operation required
* Eating (with a knife and fork)
* Typing with more than two fingers
A
anto...@aol.com
Now you are just being provocative............
Digging a tunnel through a mountain using a needle as a tool?
Richard Packer
>Now you are just being provocative............
Which itself is a sport... ;-)
a...@irow.com
Tim's definitely not under 24...
And his rowing club is suffering from absolutely no water in its lake.
(Ballarat City RC - google images for Lake Wendouree).
Although, in 3 years time without rowing, his sculling would still look
a hell of a lot better than mine.
And as to Leander - their rules, they can do what they want. Going to
the paper to complain about their rules being applied? Priceless.
AT
anto...@aol.com
Are you implying Leandre went to the press? I think the Ocean Rower
girl went to the press and Leander responded
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Yes I should have seen the 2000m gag coming.
I guess all thing being equal you would have been
looking good for the 76 Olympics. I'm impressed
that you were so competitive in sweep and sculling,
my memories of racing was that you either sculled
or rowed sweep. this has completely reversed in the
last 10 years.
Because we always had a 2000 meter rowing course
with little traffic we always favoured on water work over everything
else.
Erg was just considered a poor substitute for the real thing and rowing
tanks are virtually unknown in this country.
Bit of a shock to erg for every session this year and possibly
the next 3,4,5 years.
Tim
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Remember I was only suggesting a little more tolerance towards
another discipline in the sport of rowing, not endorsing every nutbag
endeavor on the planet. I think I understand were you coming from,
somewhat repelled by the "I've done some weird, look at me" brigade.
My own prejudices tend to be towards synchronized swimmer and curling,
although I'm sure the swimming is quite difficult.
We are all a bit different, one man's obsessive/compulsive disorder is
another
man's sport/hobby.
tim
doug....@gmail.com
> My problem with the cross-ocean rowing is that when they
> get in trouble, they then endanger commercial craft and
> coast guard personnel trying to rescue them who are duty
> bound to do so. The first several dozens that have done so
> should enjoy the beers, but I'm in favor of the larger rowing
> community yawning at future attempts, and supporting billing
> the rescued for the cost of their rescue.
How is this different for rowers than for other small-boaters? Are
sailboats in the ocean not rescued much more often than rowboats?
If coast guard personnel should exist only for commercial craft, is
this not a subsidy of the shipping industry by all taxpayers?
doug....@gmail.com
Tim.J...@gmail.com wrote:
> Alistair Potts wrote:
>
> And yes it takes years to learn to scull, except if your
> Adair Ferguson and can go from novice to World Champion
> in 18 months. (Women's lightweight sculler, AUS 1985).
>
Or unless you're Derek Porter who won the worlds one year after taking
up sculling.
Mike Sullivan
<Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165365003.9...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mike Sullivan wrote:
>> <Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1165273604.6...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
snip
> Erg was just considered a poor substitute for the real thing and rowing
> tanks are virtually unknown in this country.
>
> Bit of a shock to erg for every session this year and possibly
> the next 3,4,5 years.
what happened to your lake?
how about taking up another sport instead?
Mike Sullivan
<doug....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165368068.4...@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>
>> My problem with the cross-ocean rowing is that when they
>> get in trouble, they then endanger commercial craft and
>> coast guard personnel trying to rescue them who are duty
>> bound to do so. The first several dozens that have done so
>> should enjoy the beers, but I'm in favor of the larger rowing
>> community yawning at future attempts, and supporting billing
>> the rescued for the cost of their rescue.
>
> How is this different for rowers than for other small-boaters? Are
> sailboats in the ocean not rescued much more often than rowboats?
rec sailboats should pay for their rescue as well.
>
> If coast guard personnel should exist only for commercial craft, is
> this not a subsidy of the shipping industry by all taxpayers?
>
Commercial craft pay enormous taxes toward that end and pilots must
go through rigoruous training in seamanship. Any doofus can
embark on a rowing or sailing trip toward the horizon. The
commercial benefit to our sea infrastructure is in the lower cost
of the goods we ship/receive around the world.
People in the US are getting charged for wilderness and mountain rescue
now. A few years ago I trekked up into a wilderness area in
Lake County and didn't get back when I thought I would. I
was in a remote area, the marine band radio I had got nothing
even from ridgetop. I was in no danger, but simply late.
I got out by noon the next day, another hour and the helicopter
would have started rolling. I would have gotten a big bill from
the county.
Fair enough.
Mike
Mike Sullivan
<Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165365771....@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com...
>
> Alistair Potts wrote:
>> Jake wrote:
snip
> We are all a bit different, one man's obsessive/compulsive disorder is
> another
> man's sport/hobby.
I strongly disagree with this. While the O/C personality and the
competitive rower may by behavior resemble one another - the
rower practices incessantly, trains many hours a week and molds
his life around the craft. The big difference is that the rower most
often is forcing himself to many of the practices by will, by tricking
himself, by social pressure, and many other things. The O/C can't
help himself.
The rower needs discipline in order to train, the O/C requires discipline
in order NOT to do that activity he is compulsive about.
doug....@gmail.com
> >> My problem with the cross-ocean rowing is that when they
> >> get in trouble, they then endanger commercial craft and
> >> coast guard personnel trying to rescue them who are duty
> >> bound to do so. The first several dozens that have done so
> >> should enjoy the beers, but I'm in favor of the larger rowing
> >> community yawning at future attempts, and supporting billing
> >> the rescued for the cost of their rescue.
> >
> > How is this different for rowers than for other small-boaters? Are
> > sailboats in the ocean not rescued much more often than rowboats?
>
> rec sailboats should pay for their rescue as well.
well at least you're consistent :-)
> >
> > If coast guard personnel should exist only for commercial craft, is
> > this not a subsidy of the shipping industry by all taxpayers?
>
> Commercial craft pay enormous taxes toward that end and pilots must
> go through rigoruous training in seamanship. Any doofus can
> embark on a rowing or sailing trip toward the horizon. The
> commercial benefit to our sea infrastructure is in the lower cost
> of the goods we ship/receive around the world.
1. So we -should- subsidize shipping industry?
2. Perhaps all the taxes which go toward the CG are already in
balance/inline with percentages of use by (rescues of) doofuses vs
commercial users.
> People in the US are getting charged for wilderness and mountain rescue
> now.
Ya, I know. And getting bills from police after they're arrested, too.
I can't put my finger on it but I think there's something very wrong
with that. Seems to me that expenses of government should be recouped
by fines imposed as part of sentencing. If the cops bill you, are they
not shortcircuiting the legal system which says that the courts
dispense the justice? I realize that I brought up cops not you.
> I got out by noon the next day, another hour and the helicopter
> would have started rolling. I would have gotten a big bill from
> the county.
>
> Fair enough.
Is it? If you told someone where you were going, I suppose. What if
you weren't hiking at all but driving to LA to see a friend when they
went searching in the wilderness for you?
Mike Sullivan
<doug....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165372222....@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
snip
>> rec sailboats should pay for their rescue as well.
>
> well at least you're consistent :-)
>
>> >
>> > If coast guard personnel should exist only for commercial craft, is
>> > this not a subsidy of the shipping industry by all taxpayers?
>>
>> Commercial craft pay enormous taxes toward that end and pilots must
>> go through rigoruous training in seamanship. Any doofus can
>> embark on a rowing or sailing trip toward the horizon. The
>> commercial benefit to our sea infrastructure is in the lower cost
>> of the goods we ship/receive around the world.
>
> 1. So we -should- subsidize shipping industry?
> 2. Perhaps all the taxes which go toward the CG are already in
> balance/inline with percentages of use by (rescues of) doofuses vs
> commercial users.
I don't know that.
>
>> People in the US are getting charged for wilderness and mountain rescue
>> now.
>
> Ya, I know. And getting bills from police after they're arrested, too.
> I can't put my finger on it but I think there's something very wrong
> with that. Seems to me that expenses of government should be recouped
> by fines imposed as part of sentencing. If the cops bill you, are they
> not shortcircuiting the legal system which says that the courts
> dispense the justice? I realize that I brought up cops not you.
As i wrote my reply, it became more difficult as I thought of
consequences of what I was saying. I felt myself
swirling down the drain.
I can argue against my point prolly better than I can defend it.
But from a rowing standpoint, I still believe this. Rowers
are not average, helpless, ignorant people. We spend
an enormous amount of time training our bodies, and
dealing with outside elements. Any sculler who has tried
to train at an elite level has AT LEAST experienced a
variety of threatening situations, even in the safest body
of water.
I personally think that any rower that has to be rescued outside
of the safety planning of that rower is morally bankrupt.
Don't call yourself an oarsman. Screw you.
IOW, a rower can embark on a challenging situation that
he plans ahead. He fails at his endevour, but his planning
in the rowing venue protected him from dangerous consequences.
The makeup of that might mean rowing in open ocean in a
well regarded OW single but bringing along rescue so that
you need not bother commercial craft or Coast Guard to
pull your sorry ass out of the water.
I consider myself a rescuer, not a victim. Any rower who puts
themselves in a victim situation in my mind is not a rower.
Alistair made it very clear in the first post of this
thread the respect he had for single handed sailors
in open ocean.
Yet, I expect MORE from rowers. That sailors have to get rescued
all the time is no excuse. Open ocean rowers should not ever
have to get rescued. If they do, they ought to be pissed upon.
screw em.
Mike
Tim.J...@gmail.com
So we see similar behaviors exhibited by (behavior resemble one
another)
exhibited by both the sane and not so. I'm not saying rowers are mad
(despite many years of people earnestly telling me so) or the O/C
would make good scullers.
The comment "We are all a bit different, one man's obsessive/compulsive
disorder is
another man's sport/hobby" was said tongue in cheek which is a subtlety
the Internet
does not convey so well. (Yes I know emotioncons or what every there
called.)
I do respect the time and dedication that people put their rowing, both
as athlete
coach. I have pretty good idea what it feels like.
Tim
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Mike Sullivan wrote:
> <Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165365003.9...@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Mike Sullivan wrote:
> >> <Tim.J...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1165273604.6...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> snip
>
> > Erg was just considered a poor substitute for the real thing and rowing
> > tanks are virtually unknown in this country.
> >
> > Bit of a shock to erg for every session this year and possibly
> > the next 3,4,5 years.
>
> what happened to your lake?
>
> how about taking up another sport instead?
A bit of mismanagement, some urban re-development,
and 10 years of below average rainfall equals no Lake.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87997865@N00/107418568/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69705925@N00/309284967/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69705925@N00/116282053/
These should give a rough idea of what our Lake looks like now.
It has dried out quite a bit since then, might be able to walk the
rowing course by Christmas is the mud hardens a bit more.
Another sport? I love being on water (seafaring ancestors) but I guess
it may become unavoidable.
Tim
Tim.J...@gmail.com
He was a "novice" in sculler but already a World Champion in sweep
rowing?
Adair was a triathlete who swapped to sculling.
tim
Taniwha
Alistair Potts wrote:
> The difference is that I don't make a big song-and-dance about just
> going rowing.
But didn't you start this thread? Oh, you mean you started this thread
in response to something? No reference was posted so I thought you were
just having a spontaneous outburst.
> I'm all in favour of people rowing across oceans if that's
> what they want to do, but it almost always comes with an assumption that
> it's a 'challenge' and worthy of sponsorship, acclamation etc.
Well, they aren't going to get sponsorship if they say it a doddle and
a complete waste of time, are they?
> And it's not really rowing either. Rowing takes years to get really good
> - just rowing well sets you apart as having achieved something special.
If that's the point of rowing.
> I'm in awe of anyone who can scull competently. But those ocean boats
> are not much different skill-wise to the tubs anyone can hire at the
> park. Which makes it even less of a challenge.
Unless the point is to get to the other side. No-one cares how the
chicken crosses the road if the point was to get to the other side.
> Each to his own, but don't expect a cheer when you arrive in Barbados
> looking like Ben Gunn.
I look like Ben Gunn by each Sunday night! ;^)
> Ocean rowing is a tedious, self-indulgent,
> skill-less waste of time.
Anything that isn't for the purpose of getting enough food or keeping
dry and warm is self-indulgent, tedious if you don't like it and a
waste of time. But we have to waste most of our time because nowdays we
can feed and clothe ourselves in about an hour a day.
Taniwha
a...@irow.com
anto...@aol.com wrote:
> a...@irow.com wrote:
And as to Leander - their rules, they can do what they want. Going to
> > the paper to complain about their rules being applied? Priceless.
> >
> > AT
>
> Are you implying Leandre went to the press? I think the Ocean Rower
> girl went to the press and Leander responded
That was what I thought I said. Working in Public Service is clotting
my brain, evidently.
As I said, Leander is a private club and can reserve its rights to let
in whomsoever it wishes into the appropriate membership category.
I could draw an analogy (a flawed one, but an analogy nonetheless)
between a theoretical ride around Australia (a long, dangerous and
boring journey) and then asking to be made a full member of some racing
team. As I understand it, that's pretty much what she was asking for
to be admitted to full membership of Leander, which recognises prowess
in the sport at high level. The fact that she went to the papers about
this is a pretty poor reflection on her.
Rowing HBR twenty-seven years ago in a women's lightweight crew (at
which time the sport had probably not reached what it is today) would
not satisfy what I understand to be Leander's rules. Why should they
make an exception for an achievement (and it is an achievement to row
across a bloody great ocean) that is only peripherally relevant to
Leander as a club?
Besides, if I ever move to England, I want to join Leander. Although
I'd have to make a boat race or national team first.
AT
Nick Suess
"Carl" <ca...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote in message
news:el3gcl$48q$2$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...>> news:1165306994.7...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>> ..
>>
>>>Ask about cricket and you can get the score minute by minute etc.
>>>(At least while the Ashes are on).
>>
>>
>> Please don't talk about the Ashes. :-(
>
> You can always trust Aussies to intrude upon the private grief of others.
> Absolutely no sensitivity!
> :(
> C
Please note how silent I have been on this issue.
So what do the tabloids over there have to say about it, Carl?
And the whole Ashes circus comes here to Perth one week today. I'll be there
for every ball.
Jeremy Fagan
>
> Besides, if I ever move to England, I want to join Leander. Although
> I'd have to make a boat race or national team first.
Or do what they'd offered her - become an Associate member.
Jeremy
anto...@aol.com
Win yes...but win and gloat?
The England team deserve everything they get. They had no right to rub
the Aussies nose in the mire last year. The trend hasn't changed...
Carl
No idea what the red-tops think - hold on - doesn't a conjunction of
"red-tops" & "think" constitute an oxymoron? Nor, frankly, does any of
it much excite me.
Too often we have encountered the promising (they say) female British
tennis player whose brain turns promptly into sticky fudge whenever she
approaches match point, but it is not surprising, but it is still
disappointing, to learn that our male cricketers have a similar ability
to go all wobbly & thus to snatch defeat from the jaws of a certain draw.
And, for heaven's sake, England's cricketers have psychologists to help
them achieve such outcomes! I thought you saw a shrink only when you
were having a crisis, not when you should be enjoying knocking the
living daylights out of a sporting opponent. Hurling & smacking balls
at each other should be therapy enough for any man. If you don't feel
absolutely up for it, then take up knitting.
I recall that the late, great Harry Mahon advised the GB 8+ in Sydney
that, if they meant to row their next race as they'd just rowed their
heat, then the dressage event was over the hill in that direction.
Sound & motivational analysis, free at the point of delivery.
Anyway, I never had too many delusions about the outcome of this
particular cricket contest &, after what has happened so far, I don't
expect to have to revise that opinion. D'you know, some sad folk here
in the UK have sat up through 2 lots of 5 consecutive nights to see that
bunch get trounced? Masochists or what?
BTW, I was never too fond of cricket, so best ignore all my sour remarks
above.
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JY, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
doug....@gmail.com
Yeah but learning to scull, even if you already know how to sweep, is
much more difficult than learning to sweep.
Nick Suess
"Carl" <ca...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote in message news:el9l70$mf3$1
> No idea what the red-tops think - hold on - doesn't a conjunction of
> "red-tops" & "think" constitute an oxymoron? Nor, frankly, does any of it
> much excite me.
The "Daily Star" may no longer appear at CDRS, but surely the "Daily Mail"
still does, and gets discussed at morning tea time prior to the ritual
completion of the crossword.
I note Anton's comment that "The England team deserve everything they get".
The Barmy Army loves to sing "we all live in a convict colony" to the tune
of "Yellow Submarine". They really haven't quite got it. The "convict" tag
no longer gives irkage over here, generally quite the reverse, and those
able to trace their ancestry back to convict roots usually declare this with
pride. Let's face it, most of those transportees were folk whose only crime
was of the nature of showing the initiative to steal a loaf of bread to feed
their starving families in a Britain ruled for all those decades by a
monarch who was barking mad. And now in the 21st century, I guess we might
reply to the Barmy Army's taunts by singing "We all live in a Blairite
paradise"!
So we move on to the WACA on Thursday.
Taniwha
doug....@gmail.com wrote:
> Yeah but learning to scull, even if you already know how to sweep, is
> much more difficult than learning to sweep.
Questionable. Some people can scull easily but not sweep.
Anyway, the comparison was a sweep rower becoming a sculler as opposed
to a triathlete becoming a sculler. Must take longer for the second
given both are equally naturally skilled at sweeping.
Taniwha.
Taniwha
Sorry, last word should be sculling.
Carl
> "Carl" <ca...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote in message news:el9l70$mf3$1
>
>
>>No idea what the red-tops think - hold on - doesn't a conjunction of
>>"red-tops" & "think" constitute an oxymoron? Nor, frankly, does any of it
>>much excite me.
>
>
> The "Daily Star" may no longer appear at CDRS, but surely the "Daily Mail"
> still does, and gets discussed at morning tea time prior to the ritual
> completion of the crossword.
Generally only the crossword!
>
> I note Anton's comment that "The England team deserve everything they get".
> The Barmy Army loves to sing "we all live in a convict colony" to the tune
> of "Yellow Submarine". They really haven't quite got it. The "convict" tag
> no longer gives irkage over here, generally quite the reverse, and those
> able to trace their ancestry back to convict roots usually declare this with
> pride. Let's face it, most of those transportees were folk whose only crime
> was of the nature of showing the initiative to steal a loaf of bread to feed
> their starving families in a Britain ruled for all those decades by a
> monarch who was barking mad. And now in the 21st century, I guess we might
> reply to the Barmy Army's taunts by singing "We all live in a Blairite
> paradise"!
Sadly, your comments re ancestry are correct. Indeed, which of us lacks
a distant (or close) relative who purloined something, or stole, or
otherwise interfered with, a farm animal or two, or who went barking
mad? We are who _we_ are, each of us, & not what our ancestors were,
despite the current enthusiasm for uncovering one's forebears.
Still, we hear that Prince Charles has decided to reduce his use of the
Royal Train & other reserved forms of transport, & bought a couple of
bio-diesel Jags, so we can rest safe in our beds knowing that this noble
descendant of Victoria is saving the lot of us from global warming. I
don't know whether that will be enough to give back to Tim Wise & his
mates their missing rowing water, but I'm sure that PC has Tim
specifically in mind. Are you grateful, Tim?
As for the Barmy Army: AIUI, Oz supporters had their equally banal
songs written for them & printed. Sad gits all!
>
> So we move on to the WACA on Thursday.
>
Enjoy!
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Hello Carl, a decent heavy down pour will do at the moment.
Woke up to the smell of smoke this morning and went outside
to a very heavy haze. The nearest fire is over 200kms away, if
thing go pear shaped later today as predicted we will have
a fire with a 100km front and covering 600,000 hectares.
My wife, who works some 100kms in Melbourne said there
was ash dropping from the sky for most for yesterday.
Seems like most of our admittedly very low Alps are on fire, I hope the
rest
of the state does not ignite. The next three days look very bad.
Going to be a long summer.
Tim
PS. Got to admire the Barmy Army's dedication but not necessarily all
their antics.
Tim.J...@gmail.com
Hello Carl, a decent heavy down pour will do at the moment.