RFD: rec.sport.pro-wrestling.{fantasy,info}
Keith Scott Alan
(unmoderated) and rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info (moderated).
Purpose
-------
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy will be for discussion and/or
participation in fantasy wrestling leagues. The group will be
unmoderated.
Rationale
---------
Currently, the only USEnet group for discussion of professional
wrestling is rec.sport.pro-wrestling, which has, over the past few
months, grown in volume to a point where it is hard to maintain the
original purpose of the group: discussion of wrestling. One of the
generators of the unrelated messages are the "fantasy" wrestling
leagues, where readers create a wrestler (themselves or a new one
entirely) and proceed to organize various matches with other wrestlers,
interviews, update posts, etc. This has gone so completely off-track of
the original charter of r.s.p-w that there little choice but to create a
new group for the fantasy posts.
Charter
-------
Rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy is unmoderated, so anyone may post silly
interviews, and is entirely for the use of PBeM leagues, the so-called
RSPCW, and any other fantasy leagues who so desire to post
there.
Purpose
-------
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info will be the posting of wrestling-related
information, rumors, reviews, etc. The group will be moderated.
Rationale
---------
One of the main reasons many people read rec.sport.pro-wrestling on a
regular basis is for the unique inside information about the sport that
it offers. However, the group has often become clogged with replys,
comments, unrelated chit-chat, flame-wars, and other completely
erroneous additions to original informational posts. Essentially,
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info is will be a newsgroup where a reader can
get the information he desires without wading through 100 junk posts,
and all discussion can then be routed to r.s.p-w proper.
Charter
-------
Rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info will be moderated, be a moderator to be
decided at a later date, and only posts which are of a strictly
informational nature will be accepted. To clarify: Rumors from
wrestling hotlines, results of pay-per-view events and syndicated TV
shows, major wrestling-related news items, reviews of house shows, and
whatever else may be deemed informational by the moderator. All other
miscellaneous and/or erroneous discussion will be carried on in
rec.sport.pro-wrestling itself.
Discussion
----------
Any objections to this RFD will be considered and, if determinted to
be appropriate, incorporated. The discussion will last 21 days after
which the first Call For Votes (CFV) will be issued.
--
ke...@cs.ualberta.ca (Dog-O-War on IRC)
First name Scott, middle name Alan, last name Keith. Get it right.
"Teenage angst has paid off well, now I'm bored and old" - Nirvana
* * * * R.I.P. Kurt Cobain - 1966-1994
Ron Asbestos Dippold
unmoderated group rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
moderated group rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info
Newsgroups line:
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy Fantasy & E-wrestling posts and discussion.
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info Information-only wrestling group (moderated).
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 June 1994.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact rdip...@qualcomm.com. For questions about the
proposed group contact Keith Scott Alan <ke...@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca>
CHARTERS (Keith)
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
Rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy will be for the discussion of fantasy pro
wrestling leagues, and the posting of announcements, cards, rules, etc, of
new and/or existing leagues. It is for use by e-wrestling leagues and also
for use by groups currently posting to rec.sport.pro-wrestling proper, namely
the RSPCW. It will be unmoderated. As well, one convention currently in
trial stages on rspw proper should be used in subject headers: namely
placing the federation in question in square brackets before the actual
subject (eg [CWF], [UeWF], [RSPCW], etc.) While this is not a required
part of the newsgroup, it makes life easier on those reading it. The
group will be used to post results of e-wrestling cards, upcoming cards,
interviews from wrestlers, rankings, or whatever else is part of the
periodic mailing package of the e-federation.
I feel the group is necessary because not only are there many PBeM
wrestling leagues out there, but the regular posters on rec.games.pbm
feel that they have no place in that newsgroup. As well, regular posters to
rec.sport.pro-wrestling feel that the RSPCW has no place in that
newsgroup. With the new group, followers of fantasy wrestling will be
free to discuss the various leagues, as well as announce new ones, plus post
results of their shows. The amount of e-wrestling leagues would by
themselves seem to justify a newsgroup, and the recent debate over the RSPWF
and the RSPCW, IMO, make it a necessity.
This is a moderated newsgroup. It is solely for the purpose of
posting information about the world of professional wrestling. This
includes the r.s.p.w FAQ, the wrestling relations list, the "Welcome
to rec.sport.pro-wrestling" file, Herb Kunze's Tidbits, Oliver
Postlethwaite's Hotline report, Chris Zimmerman's RAW reports, the
weekly summaries of WWF syndicated programs, the summaries of WCW
programming on TBS, substantiated gossip (eg from the Observer
newsletter), summaries (with NO match ratings) of PPV programming,
results from house shows, the summaries of the weekly ECW and USWA
shows, plus whatever other wrestling programming people may be
interested in, news items, and of course a periodic posting >From the
moderator.
The group is NOT a forum for discussion of wrestling, a place to rate
matches on a given card, a place to post trivia, a place to ask
questions, a place to answer questions, a place to state an opinion of
a show, event, item, happening, or rumor. It is not a place to
announce an upcoming show -- that is what rec.sport.pro-wrestling is
for. In short, it is simply a newsgroup for the reader who wishes to
simply "read the news" in the world of professional wrestling and move
on. All followups will be directed to rec.sport.pro-wrestling proper.
The group will be moderated by Pete Barlow (pmba...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu).
I feel very strongly that this group should pass for several reasons.
The most important one is the fact that I want a group where I can get
the latest information without having to kill all the flamewars,
followups, questions, trivia with wrong answers, newbie posts,
arguments, speculation and general noise. I just want to know what's
happening right away, then read the reaction from the net if need be
later on. It will also save money for the numerous people who
download the messages every day, and no longer have to download 150
noise messages to read the 10 or 20 informative messages. And also
because clarinet doesn't supply a wrestling group, one needs to be
created to serve the same purpose.
HOW TO VOTE
Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group names.
Give your name on the line that asks for it. For each group, place a YES or
NO in the brackets next to it to vote for or against it. If you don't want
to vote on a particular group, just leave the space blank. Don't worry
about spacing of the columns or any quote characters (">") that your reply
inserts.
Send MAIL to: vot...@qualcomm.com
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
pro-wrestling Ballot <RSPW-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
Give your real name here:
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
[ ] rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info (moderated)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
Bob Rudd
-> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- pro-wrestling Ballot <RSPW-0001> (Don't remove
-> this marker)
->
-> Give your real name here:
->
-> [Your Vote] Group
->
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-> - [ NO ] rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
-> [ MO ] rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info (moderated)
-> -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines
-> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ron Asbestos Dippold
Newsgroups line:
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy Fantasy & E-wrestling posts and discussion.
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info Information-only wrestling group (moderated).
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 10 Jun 1994.
CHARTERS (Keith)
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
HOW TO VOTE
pro-wrestling Ballot <RSPW-0002> (Don't remove this marker)
Give your real name here:
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
[ ] rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info (moderated)
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person, no more than one vote per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.{fantasy,info} Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BSOSCom...@bss2.umd.edu Doug Smith
ja...@postoffice.mail.edu Joshua Stein
l...@contec.COM Leonard Mills
Ron Asbestos Dippold
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.{fantasy,info} results - 161 valid votes
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
96 59 : No No : No : rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
92 63 : No No : No : rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info
A group needs to have 100 more YES votes than NO votes, and twice as
many YES votes as NO votes to pass. The groups fail.
Newsgroups line:
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy Fantasy & E-wrestling posts and discussion.
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info Information-only wrestling group (moderated).
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact rdip...@qualcomm.com. For questions about the
proposed group contact Keith Scott Alan <ke...@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca>
CHARTERS (Keith)
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
Rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy will be for the discussion of fantasy pro
wrestling leagues, and the posting of announcements, cards, rules, etc, of
new and/or existing leagues. It is for use by e-wrestling leagues and also
for use by groups currently posting to rec.sport.pro-wrestling proper, namely
the RSPCW. It will be unmoderated. As well, one convention currently in
trial stages on rspw proper should be used in subject headers: namely
placing the federation in question in square brackets before the actual
subject (eg [CWF], [UeWF], [RSPCW], etc.) While this is not a required
part of the newsgroup, it makes life easier on those reading it. The
group will be used to post results of e-wrestling cards, upcoming cards,
interviews from wrestlers, rankings, or whatever else is part of the
periodic mailing package of the e-federation.
I feel the group is necessary because not only are there many PBeM
wrestling leagues out there, but the regular posters on rec.games.pbm
feel that they have no place in that newsgroup. As well, regular posters to
rec.sport.pro-wrestling feel that the RSPCW has no place in that
newsgroup. With the new group, followers of fantasy wrestling will be
free to discuss the various leagues, as well as announce new ones, plus post
themselves seem to justify a newsgroup, and the recent debate over the RSPWF
and the RSPCW, IMO, make it a necessity.
This is a moderated newsgroup. It is solely for the purpose of
posting information about the world of professional wrestling. This
includes the r.s.p.w FAQ, the wrestling relations list, the "Welcome
to rec.sport.pro-wrestling" file, Herb Kunze's Tidbits, Oliver
Postlethwaite's Hotline report, Chris Zimmerman's RAW reports, the
weekly summaries of WWF syndicated programs, the summaries of WCW
programming on TBS, substantiated gossip (eg from the Observer
newsletter), summaries (with NO match ratings) of PPV programming,
shows, plus whatever other wrestling programming people may be
interested in, news items, and of course a periodic posting >From the
moderator.
The group is NOT a forum for discussion of wrestling, a place to rate
matches on a given card, a place to post trivia, a place to ask
questions, a place to answer questions, a place to state an opinion of
a show, event, item, happening, or rumor. It is not a place to
announce an upcoming show -- that is what rec.sport.pro-wrestling is
for. In short, it is simply a newsgroup for the reader who wishes to
simply "read the news" in the world of professional wrestling and move
on. All followups will be directed to rec.sport.pro-wrestling proper.
The group will be moderated by Pete Barlow (pmba...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu).
I feel very strongly that this group should pass for several reasons.
The most important one is the fact that I want a group where I can get
the latest information without having to kill all the flamewars,
followups, questions, trivia with wrong answers, newbie posts,
arguments, speculation and general noise. I just want to know what's
happening right away, then read the reaction from the net if need be
later on. It will also save money for the numerous people who
download the messages every day, and no longer have to download 150
noise messages to read the 10 or 20 informative messages. And also
because clarinet doesn't supply a wrestling group, one needs to be
created to serve the same purpose.
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.{fantasy,info} Final Vote Ack
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info ----+
rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy ---+|
||
ab...@freenet.carleton.ca Oliver Postlethwaite YN
ac...@telerama.lm.com Philip R. Spagnolli YY
a...@albert.bu.edu Adam Bryant NN
af...@freenet.buffalo.edu Nick R. Protokowicz YN
ai...@freenet.carleton.ca Gary K McDonald NN
al19...@academ01.mty.itesm.mx Eugenio Sanchez NN
amb...@epx.cis.umn.edu Amberle S Ferrian NN
ams...@io.org Daniel Amsler Y-
an...@harlequin.com Andy Latto YY
an...@world.std.com Andrew Shulman NY
ante...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de Stefan Antesberger NN
ap...@andrew.cmu.edu Aidan Palmer YY
a...@shell.portal.com Andy Patrizio YY
at...@freenet.carleton.ca Russ Boucher YY
au...@cs.albany.edu James Ault NN
bba...@clark.net Bill Bacon NY
bbs....@tsoft.net David B. Taub YN
bec...@jaflrn.Morse.Net Don Becker YY
beck...@Informatik.Mathematik.Uni-Mainz.DE Markus A. Beckmann YY
bh...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Mike Palij YY
bill...@access.digex.net Jeremy Billones YY
birc...@pilot.njin.net Shag NN
b...@herbison.com B.J. Herbison -Y
bl...@mksol.dseg.ti.com Arthur Blair NN
BREI...@CNSVAX.UWEC.EDU Scott Paul Breitzka YY
Bruce.M...@UC.EDU Bruce McGeorge YN
BSOSCom...@bss2.umd.edu Doug Smith YY
bun...@cix.compulink.co.uk Caroline Bunce YY
C62...@mizzou1.missouri.edu Steve Black YN
cat...@minerva.cis.yale.edu Mark Kupferman NN
cdpy...@mtu.edu Chris Pyhtila YY
chr...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Christopher G. Palacios -Y
chr...@minerva.robadome.com Chris Quinn YY
cma...@osiris.ac.hmc.edu Chris Marble YY
coh...@dbisna.com Caleb Cohen NN
craw...@sjuphil.sju.edu Jeff Crawford craw...@sju.edu YY
crou...@flidh102.delcoelect.com K.P. Crouch NN
crp...@erfsys01.boeing.com Chris Payne NN
csfb1!phantom!jmel...@uunet.UU.NET Joe Melillo YY
cs...@netcom.com Chris.Hilker YY
ctw...@dal.mobil.com Chris Ward NN
CY...@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA Bart Beaty YY
D...@ac.dal.ca Jason D. Steeves YY
DJK5%PSUVM....@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Dave Ketchen YY
dmu...@cwa.com Dan Murphy NN
doc...@iglou.com Clay Evans YY
dona...@uoguelph.ca Donald Martin YY
dra...@minerva.cis.yale.edu Rebecca Drayer NY
ds...@poe.acc.virginia.edu David Strauss YY
dug...@cc.gatech.edu Rick Duggan YY
e...@msc.edu Edward Bertsch NN
ECA...@ARIEL.LERC.NASA.GOV Ron Graham YY
edm...@access.digex.net Edmond Wolf YY
erod...@whale.st.usm.edu Elizabeth Rodgers NN
esc...@merle.acns.nwu.edu Evan Schlesinger YN
FALK...@CNSVAX.UWEC.EDU Mike Falkner YY
fi...@netcom.com Robert Finn NN
fs...@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu Sean P. Ryan YY
fu...@gl.umbc.edu Francis Uy N-
GaLliF!yada...@ERsys.EDmonTON.Ab.cA Dave Shariff Yadallee YY
ga...@cs.dal.ca Gary Sneddon YY
gen...@husc.harvard.edu Thomas Gentile YN
gl...@fermi.clas.virginia.edu Greg Lindahl NN
gr...@Outback.ny.TPC.com Greg Gershowitz YY
gse...@uoguelph.ca Gregory Searle YY
gsp...@CMU.EDU Geoffrey Spear NN
gt0...@prism.gatech.edu Brennan T. Price NN
hek...@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca Herb Kunze YY
hs...@ludd.luth.se Roger H}kansson NN
hug...@studsys.mscs.mu.edu Brett J. Hughes YY
ir...@osustat.mps.ohio-state.edu Mark Irwin YY
ja...@postoffice.mail.edu Joshua Stein YY
jew...@Data-IO.COM Cal Jewell YY
jfo...@dorsai.dorsai.org Joseph Fortt NY
jf...@glia.biostr.washington.edu Jeffery Foy YY
jjer...@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU John Jermanis YN
j...@summit.novell.com Jonathan Schilling -Y
JNSI...@ULKYVX.LOUISVILLE.EDU NY
jo...@wariat.org Joel W. Tscherne YY
jo...@iastate.edu John Hascall NN
John_St...@magic-bbs.corp.apple.com John Stevenson YY
jran...@carl.org Jeff Randles YY
jul...@bongo.tele.com Julian Macassey NN
j...@ufcc.ufl.edu JAY TARLOWE YY
j_he...@oz.plymouth.edu Axl NN
k2...@dxis.monroe.pa.us Robert A. Schreibmaier YY
Kari....@fmi.fi Kari E. Hurtta NN
ke...@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca Scott Keith YY
kep...@rs6000.ivcc.edu Richard John Kepper YY
kna...@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Ralph Knapp YY
kr...@vuse.vanderbilt.edu NN
k...@netcom.com Khantipol Kasemsant YY
L1...@ZFN.UNI-BREMEN.DE Martin Schr"oder YY
l...@contec.COM Leonard Mills YY
LRH...@vms.cis.pitt.edu Lucinda Hittle NN
LT_ST...@emuvax.emich.edu Dominic Macika YY
M.D.A....@bradford.ac.uk Mark Varley YN
ma...@server.cs.virginia.edu Michael DeLong NN
math...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Curtis Desjardins YY
m...@agar.oche.de Marcus Breiing NN
mc...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Brad McGee YY
mgr...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Michael Grimes YN
mike...@cie-2.uoregon.edu Michael Ehli YY
mjfo...@mailbox.syr.edu Maurice Forrester YN
m...@RedBrick.COM Maxime Taksar --
mord...@bga.com B Mckenney YY
m...@bronze.coil.com Bill Moser YY
mrma...@ingr.com Mike Mathis (mrma...@ingr.com) YN
nbc...@dbmsmail.dsac.dla.mil Chris Schneider Y-
ne...@isis.cgd.ucar.EDU Jeff Berry YY
ott...@cfsmo.honeywell.com Otto "Hack-Man" Heuer YY
owcf...@web.apc.org J Stevenson YY
pdhe...@hooter.aud.alcatel.com Paul D. Herzog YY
pet...@telerama.lm.com Peter G. Berger, Esq. NN
plut...@porter.geo.brown.edu Joel Plutchak N-
pma...@virginia.edu Patrick M. Martin YY
PMBA...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu Peter Barlow -Y
pmb...@acs.ucalgary.ca NY
pol...@cs.ucsd.edu Andreas Polzer NN
ppy...@ppn3.physics.nottingham.ac.uk Andy Cross NN
qu...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael Quinn YY
ran...@sybase.com Ray Rankins YY
re...@buphyk.bu.edu Jinara Reyes NN
ri...@bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller NY
rke...@andy.bgsu.edu robin keller -Y
ron...@cisco.com Ronnie kon NN
row...@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Samuel Peter Rowe YY
rrus...@nyx10.cs.du.edu Bob Rusbasan YY
rstr...@netcom.com Robert Strauss YY
ruf...@cae.wisc.edu J. Rufinus YY
sia...@kaiwan.com Siamak Ansari NN
sma...@turing.toronto.edu Smarasderagd NN
spat...@gnu.ai.mit.edu YN
S...@tntv6.ntrs.com Steve Bonine NN
s...@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Stefan Roth YY
s...@MIT.EDU S. Tucker NY
stai...@bga.com Dwight Brown NN
ste...@WPI.EDU Steven Sousa YY
tcr...@tinker.appliedmicro.ns.ca Tim Creasy NN
ten...@hot.gun.de Helmut Tenberg NN
te...@netcom.com Terra Goodnght NN
th...@metronet.com Tom Hyatt YN
ti...@ccad.uiowa.edu Timothy VanFosson NN
TJ_...@PAVO.CONCORDIA.CA Thomas Moll NN
Todd....@Colorado.EDU Todd R. Benson YY
to...@cae.wisc.edu Tomas Willis NN
to...@bluesky.equinox.gen.nz Tony Trewinnard YY
uswnvg!rcr...@uunet.UU.NET Rob Crouch YY
V058...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Joseph Avolio YY
va...@marcam.com Rob Follo YY
ve...@cedar.buffalo.edu Jason Verch NN
von...@MIT.EDU Eric vonHaam YY
vpnet!vpnet!vag...@cyclone.xnet.com Guy Umbright NN
wal...@suntan.eng.usf.edu Patrick E. Peters (borrowing account of John W Y-
WA...@ernie.van.forintek.ca Ward F. Bush NN
will....@ftl.mese.com William Michael Rogers NN
wi...@ecf.toronto.edu Gary Will YN
wil...@UnbSJ.CA Willem Dykeshoorn YY
wyat...@delta.com Wyatt Cox YY
zah...@popmail.acs.ohio-state.edu Dennis F. Zahn NY
zimm...@ucrengr.UCR.EDU Christopher Robin Zimmerman YY
Sean P. Ryan
adopt my reorg-by-mailing-list idea?
Carefully compare the names of YES voters versus the names of NO
voters. Apparently, this proposal was offensive to a great many
of the news.* contingent.
--
Name: Sean Patrick {"Bandwidth","Hardcore Alaskan"} Ryan| !oo! | fnord
Snail: P.O. Box 202964, Anchorage, AK 99520-2964|Ph.: (907) 277 7308
E-mail: fs...@aurora.alaska.edu or se...@fred.com|Fax: (907) 277 2599
"Wow, Sean Ryan is everywhere!!!" -- Duane Dubay <d...@pagesat.net>|<><
Steve Black
fs...@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Sean P. Ryan) writes:
>I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Now will someone
>adopt my reorg-by-mailing-list idea?
>Carefully compare the names of YES voters versus the names of NO
>voters. Apparently, this proposal was offensive to a great many
>of the news.* contingent.
every single person that I recognize as posting here at rspw liked it, and
I'll bet most of the people who were on rec.games.pbm were the ones that voted
this down.
What *I* don't understand is why they HAD to be included in the first place.
It doesn't exculde them at all. (Of course, I haven't taken a close look at
the board, but...)
======================================================================
Steve Black
c62...@mizzou1.missouri.edu
"I keep my ideals,
The opinions expressed here because in spite of
do not represent those of everything I still
the University of Missouri. believe that people
Although, if they thought are really good at
about it, they'd realize heart."
that I'm usually right.
:> :> --Anne Frank
======================================================================
Pete Barlow
> I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
Oh, yes, Sean. You are the almighty. Should we bow at your feet now, or
should we wait for you to get rid of the toejam and athlete's foot first? Me,
I'm already burning incense in your honour; later, I intend to simply burn the
popsicle stick figure I made of you to burn incense in front of.
[hands Sean the Charles Emerson Winchester III Wet Blanket Award]
You deserve every bit of it. How do you feel?
> Now will someone
> adopt my reorg-by-mailing-list idea?
Because you guessed correctly about the voting outcome? *shake* I don't think
so.
> Carefully compare the names of YES voters versus the names of NO
> voters. Apparently, this proposal was offensive to a great many
> of the news.* contingent.
*hands it back to Sean* Compare the names yourself. Basically everybody who's
a regular poster to this group, including yourself, voted in favour of the
fantasy group, even people (Herb, Andy) who either don't like fantasy
wrestling, think it's stupid, or just don't bother with it anyway. Very few
abstained on the issue at all, although I freely admit to being one of the ones
who did. And most of these same people (from this group) voted in favour of
the info group... including JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY who posts something
informational here from time to time.
Your basic arguing point was that since half the readership had gone home, the
measures wouldn't pass. The most idealistic representative cross-section of
this group voted on the measures. Would it have been any better if the
ham-and-eggers voted on it? I don't think so. To pass, as it stood, the
fantasy measure would have needed 70 more yes votes, and the info group even
more. Face it; even with the purported 50,000 readership we have, these
measures didn't stand a chance in hell. And this is coming from the proposed
moderator of one of the two groups.
Pete.
Sean P. Ryan
>
>I'll bet most of the people who were on rec.games.pbm were the
>ones that voted this down.
BZZZZT!! Most of the NO votes came from news.announce.newgroups and
news.groups.
>What *I* don't understand is why they HAD to be included in the first place.
For the same reason as in every other vote: the creation of a new
newsgroup affecting an already-existing newsgroup. Regardless of
the personal feelings of many r.s.p-w readers on that particular
issue, the above reason stands vis a vis the relationship between
rec.games.pbm and rec.sport.pro-wrestling fantasy.
The Dreamaker
: *hands it back to Sean* Compare the names yourself. Basically everybody who's
: a regular poster to this group, including yourself, voted in favour of the
: fantasy group, even people (Herb, Andy) who either don't like fantasy
: wrestling, think it's stupid, or just don't bother with it anyway. Very few
: abstained on the issue at all, although I freely admit to being one of the ones
: who did. And most of these same people (from this group) voted in favour of
: the info group... including JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY who posts something
: informational here from time to time.
I have to say that sweeping generalisations that ALL the regulars voted
one way is pretty unrealistic as looking down the list I saw quite a few
no votes from regular posters. The honest truth is that creating a new
group is pretty hard at the best of times and that after this defeat maybe
better ways of structuring this group should be attempted. (Although it is
hard) Oh well, c'est la vie.
Mark
--
! Mark 'The Mouth' Varley Tel (0274) 385835 (home) !
! Marketing Manager Radio Ramair Tel (0274) 383267 (office) !
! University of Bradford, England. Tel (0274) 385530 (fax) !
! E-Mail: M.D.A....@bradford.ac.uk !
patr...@news.delphi.com
>I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Now will someone
>adopt my reorg-by-mailing-list idea?
>Carefully compare the names of YES voters versus the names of NO
>voters. Apparently, this proposal was offensive to a great many
>of the news.* contingent.
Yeah, real nice of these fucks to vote no on a group they don't read.
What I want to know is why so few from here voted. I saw very few
familiar names. The thread asking ofor these groups went on forever, and
the vote turnout was pathetic. Where's our lurkers when we need them?
Electric Youth Renegade
> In article <2tlekt$g...@louie.udel.edu>, fs...@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Sean P. Ryan) writes:
>> Carefully compare the names of YES voters versus the names of NO
>> voters. Apparently, this proposal was offensive to a great many
>> of the news.* contingent.
>
> *hands it back to Sean* Compare the names yourself. Basically everybody who's
> a regular poster to this group, including yourself, voted in favour of the
> fantasy group, even people (Herb, Andy) who either don't like fantasy
> wrestling, think it's stupid, or just don't bother with it anyway. Very few
> abstained on the issue at all, although I freely admit to being one of the ones
> who did. And most of these same people (from this group) voted in favour of
> the info group... including JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY who posts something
> informational here from time to time.
This brings up a possible argument. Can someone ask that a group be REMOVED
from the official distribution, because it seems to me that this group does not
hold the general interest of USENET. Not that I am against this group, but the
fact that even the info group failed by not even getting 100 YES votes would be
a signal to some people that this group is kinda fading, I think...
> Your basic arguing point was that since half the readership had gone home, the
> measures wouldn't pass. The most idealistic representative cross-section of
> this group voted on the measures. Would it have been any better if the
> ham-and-eggers voted on it? I don't think so. To pass, as it stood, the
> fantasy measure would have needed 70 more yes votes, and the info group even
> more. Face it; even with the purported 50,000 readership we have, these
> measures didn't stand a chance in hell. And this is coming from the proposed
> moderator of one of the two groups.
What does this tell us about rec.sport.pro-wrestling??
Mike
Electric Youth Renegade
> For the same reason as in every other vote: the creation of a new
> newsgroup affecting an already-existing newsgroup. Regardless of
> the personal feelings of many r.s.p-w readers on that particular
> issue, the above reason stands vis a vis the relationship between
> rec.games.pbm and rec.sport.pro-wrestling fantasy.
Maybe. But I think there's another issue here:
The fact that this group didn't even get 100 YES votes. I don't care if no one
voted no -- if you can't get 100 YES votes, it will not pass.... I refer you
to my earlier question in a previous post, Sean...
What does this tell us about this group??
Mike
Robert Rusbasan
> RESULT
> rec.sport.pro-wrestling.{fantasy,info} results - 161 valid votes
> Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
> ---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
> 96 59 : No No : No : rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy
> 92 63 : No No : No : rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info
> A group needs to have 100 more YES votes than NO votes, and twice as
> many YES votes as NO votes to pass. The groups fail.
Damn, this is disappointing. Either the 60,000 people readership
figure for this group is completely bogus, or rsp-w is just about the
most apathetic group around.
I'd guess the former. A recent readership report listed nyx.misc as
one of the top groups, with a readership of about 250,000. That is
utter baloney, since nyx.misc is not propogated (much) beyond the
site I'm posting from, which has I believe less than 10,000 users total.
> Newsgroups line:
> rec.sport.pro-wrestling.fantasy Fantasy & E-wrestling posts and discussion.
> rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info Information-only wrestling group (moderated).
Sniff, sob. Why must they torture us this way?
It's really a shame. Rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info would not have
affected the original group at all, and it would have given me and
others a low-volume alternative to rsp-w. I'll never understand why
others would vote that I shouldn't have that choice.
Oh well. I guess we can try to stir up more than 150 votes from the
alleged 60,000 readers in six months or so, if there is still interest
in these proposals.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
/ Bob Rusbasan | Dance to the tension \
/ rrus...@nyx.cs.du.edu | of a world on edge \
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Robert Rusbasan
> adopt my reorg-by-mailing-list idea?
Sounds fine by me. Exclusive? Elitist? Yes, but if people are going
to vote to deprive me of a Usenet alternative to rsp-w's high volume,
then too damn bad.
> Carefully compare the names of YES voters versus the names of NO
> voters. Apparently, this proposal was offensive to a great many
> of the news.* contingent.
Then at most the news.* contingent mustered 60 votes or so, which
would have easily been meaningless if a fraction of the alleged
60,000 rsp-w readers had taken part in the vote.
14033-R.SCHREIBMAIER(MT5655)1223MT
> The fact that this group didn't even get 100 YES votes. I don't care if no one
> voted no -- if you can't get 100 YES votes, it will not pass.... I refer you
> to my earlier question in a previous post, Sean...
>
> What does this tell us about this group??
That very few readers decided to vote. This does not necessarily
have any correlation with the number of readers of rsp-w. Nor does
it necessarily indicate that this newsgroup is going down the tubes.
Bob
--
----------------------------------------------------
Bob Schreibmaier K2PH | UUCP: ...!att!mtdcr!bob
AT&T Bell Laboratories | Internet: b...@mtdcr.att.com
Middletown, N.J. 07748 | ICBM: 40o21'N, 74o8'W
DScherer
(PATR...@DELPHI.COM) writes:
"What I want to know is why so few from here voted. I saw very few
familiar names. The thread asking ofor these groups went on forever,
and
the vote turnout was pathetic. Where's our lurkers when we need
them?"
I'll tell you why I didn't, I couldn't. Neither aol or Delphi would
let me access the news.announce group.
lt_st...@emuvax.emich.edu
> In article <2tlekt$g...@louie.udel.edu>
> fs...@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Sean P. Ryan) writes:
>
>>I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. Now will someone
>>adopt my reorg-by-mailing-list idea?
>
>>Carefully compare the names of YES voters versus the names of NO
>>voters. Apparently, this proposal was offensive to a great many
>>of the news.* contingent.
>
> I think part of it was there just weren't enough people voting, too. I think
> every single person that I recognize as posting here at rspw liked it, and
> I'll bet most of the people who were on rec.games.pbm were the ones that voted
> this down.
>
> What *I* don't understand is why they HAD to be included in the first place.
> It doesn't exculde them at all. (Of course, I haven't taken a close look at
> the board, but...)
>
Steve, you seem to have missed the point. As Sean mentioned it was the
News.* contingent that voted no, mostly because of a poorly organized
RFD and CFV. I don't think many people on rg.pbm voted at all, and if
they had voted, maybe there would have been enough votes for this to
pass. Then again maybe not, because, as Sean pointed out, timing is
poor here, since the CFV didn't come out until people were already
gone from school for the summer.
Dominic
lt_st...@emuvax.emich.edu
>> Now will someone
>> adopt my reorg-by-mailing-list idea?
>
> Because you guessed correctly about the voting outcome? *shake* I don't think
> so.
>
No, not for that reason, but maybe because Sean was right about *why* it
would fail. In that case, I think so.
As always, Just MHO.
Dominic
The Dreamaker
: > The fact that this group didn't even get 100 YES votes. I don't care if no one
: > voted no -- if you can't get 100 YES votes, it will not pass.... I refer you
: > to my earlier question in a previous post, Sean...
: >
: > What does this tell us about this group??
Basically it tells us a few points. Firstly that the timing for the CFV
was badly timed and rather rushed in my opinion. I voted yes for the
fantasy group and no for the info group. I now wish that I had voted yes
for the info group too. The reason why I didn't vote yes for it though was
the high and mighty attitudes of some people who expected the info group
to go ahead because THEY thought it was a good idea. I can't remember
exactly who these people were, but they did anger me at the time, hence my
voting no. Unfortunately the time for voting happened when the group is
sparsely populated and hence we were probably at least 50 regualars short,
most of whom would have undoubtably voted yes. I think that the whole
newsgroup proposals should be discussed again in a few months time and
another vote made to pass it through when people are actually about. Maybe
the charters for the groups should be a little bit better prepared and
explained too as they did seem a bit rushed this time around.
Just my 2 pence on the matter.
Mark 'Maniac' Varley
Mr Doobie J
>adopt my reorg-by-mailing-list idea?
Yes, you did. Psychic. :-)
I get enough mail already....
>
>Carefully compare the names of YES voters versus the names of NO
>voters. Apparently, this proposal was offensive to a great many
>of the news.* contingent.
I didn't look that closely, but of those voting NN, I don't think I recognised
a single name from here.....defeated by news.* types and lurkers goddammit!
Not that anyone'll recognise my name either....
Row...@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz Sam Rowe (Museum of New Zealand)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It has always been the prerogative of half-wits and children to point
out that the Emperor has no clothes. However the half-wit is still a
half-wit, and the Emperor is still the Emperor - Dream, of the Endless
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If the above posting is not PC, the Museum _definately_ won't agree :-)
Good thing it's all my own twisted creation......hehhehheh....hehheh...
Russ Boucher
In a previous article, lt_st...@emuvax.emich.edu () says:
[other stuff tossed]
>....as Sean pointed out, timing is
>poor here, since the CFV didn't come out until people were already
>gone from school for the summer.
Thats a very good point. I know that I myself wouldnt have been
able to vote if I hadnt managed to get summer net access (seeing how I
graduated and all). Maybe that 60,000+ readership that r.s.p-w is
supposed to have is only from September to April or something
like that.
Anyways, how many CFVs are we allowed? Maybe it would be a better
idea to post the RFDs again in September, and have another CFV then, when
(hopefully) there are more people around to vote.
(BTW, I voted YES for the two groups.)
--
Russ Boucher : on the National Capital Freenet.......
at...@freenet.carleton.ca : on the Nati
lt_st...@emuvax.emich.edu
>
> What does this tell us about this group??
>
It tells us exactly what Sean told us previously, that it's summer, and schools
out...
Dominic
Greg Gershowitz
>I think part of it was there just weren't enough people voting, too. I think
>every single person that I recognize as posting here at rspw liked it, and
>I'll bet most of the people who were on rec.games.pbm were the ones that voted
>this down.
Which would be really strange, as they apparently don't want the
Wrestling Fantasy Leagues. I guess they just want to be malicious.
-Greg G
--
"No matter who you are, no matter what you look like, deep down in
the gunny sack of your soul, in the top drawer, in the back, on the
bottom, we all have a pair of pants with a pocket full of kryptonite."
"When God belches, it sounds OK" - Spin Doctors, Jones Beach, 7/9/93
Joe Avolio
I don't know if this was the case at all but I didn't even catch the CFV
until the last day to vote and that was by accident. I think we need to hire
that guy that was trying to start the boxing group to do p.r. for us.
Seriously though, there really wasn't no reminders to vote or anything like
that so I think that's something to keep in mind for the future...and I hope
there is a future because I really feel that both of these groups are damn
good ideas. Hell, if I have to round up 100 people from U.B. to vote yes,
I'll do that ;-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| JoMosh (Joseph Avolio) | (v058...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu) |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dept. of Physical Therapy | State University of New York at Buffalo |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed" Rush |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen Piper
Robert Rusbasan <rrus...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>It's really a shame. Rec.sport.pro-wrestling.info would not have
>affected the original group at all, and it would have given me and
>others a low-volume alternative to rsp-w. I'll never understand why
>others would vote that I shouldn't have that choice.
>
>Oh well. I guess we can try to stir up more than 150 votes from the
>alleged 60,000 readers in six months or so, if there is still interest
>in these proposals.
I agree with you Bob. I would've voted (for the .info group) if I HAD
KNOWN that the vote was going on...
What we need next time is to mobilize the forces of rsp-w, including us
lurkers, to get out & vote. Perhaps a sizable number of people thought
that the discussion that took place here in rsp-w was the deciding factor
(i.e., we hashed out a decision amongst ourselves, those most affected by
the group, & then we did it), rather than a prelude to the official USENET
CFV.
I guess this needs to be looked upon as a learning experience. If we do
better next time & get things properly publicized, it will have been worth
the (minor) setback.
Later,
Glen
"Number One, engage cloak..."
--
****************************************************************************
* Glen Piper * Go Heels! Go Kalamazoo! Go Wings! *
* email: gl...@med.unc.edu * Opinions herein belong to myself - NOT UNC-CH! *
****************************************************************************
Pete Barlow
otherwise... I can't.
Not really.
One of the chief arguments used to prompt the creation of the fantasy group was
signal-to-noise ratio, or to be more exact, (paraphrasing) "there's too much
garbage going about in the group, and fantasy's a big contributor to that, so
we should put it in it's own newsgroup."
Wonderful. But the popular assumption had to be that a lot of the noise would
go away because school let out for the summer. The only problem is... it
hasn't. The number of posts put up here in the last week is roughly 20% lower
than it ever was when bandwidth wastage was at its worst. (The basic numbers:
roughly 400 posts a week now, was as high as 500)
Presuming that the 20% is made up of college students who went home... it still
doesn't make enough yes votes for either measure to pass. Of course, that's
also presuming that it's not 100 people making one post each, but a lesser
number making more than one post each. But then, posting is much like Lay's
Potato Chips: No One Can Post Just Once.(tm)
If that number of 60,000 readers is at all true, then the measure shouldn't
have had any problems. It clearly isn't. Everybody at my alternate site
(which I posted from a couple times a few weeks ago) is automatically
subscribed to every existing newsgroup once they get their account, until they
go in and unsubscribe the group. One has to wonder exactly how many people in
the world that type of set-up accounts for.
Pete.
Andy Patrizio
>From: dsch...@aol.com (DScherer)
>Subject: result
>Date: 15 Jun 1994 16:21:01 -0400
>I'll tell you why I didn't, I couldn't. Neither aol or Delphi would
>let me access the news.announce group.
Ok, that's one mutant down. Now where are the 59,999?
Face it, we blew it. There should have been a rounding up of the troops here
and marching everyone over to news.announce.newgroups, or at the very least,
post the ballot here, which could then be mailed in.
Come fall we can try again.
Robert Rusbasan
> In article <2tnnrd$c...@search01.news.aol.com> dsch...@aol.com (DScherer) writes:
> >I'll tell you why I didn't, I couldn't. Neither aol or Delphi would
> >let me access the news.announce group.
> Face it, we blew it. There should have been a rounding up of the troops here
> and marching everyone over to news.announce.newgroups, or at the very least,
> post the ballot here, which could then be mailed in.
No offense meant to either of you, but what the hell are you talking
about? Ballots are always posted to any relevant groups, and this one
was no exception. The ballot was posted to rsp-w, and that is how I
voted for the new groups.
I do agree with your general sentiment. With all the noise in this
group, there should have been some major campaigning so people would
be SURE to find the ballot and send in their vote. I can easily
understand how many people missed it completely when I know some people
routinely use the "catch up" command to clear out the hundreds of
articles they know they have no time to read.
In a way, it's almost poetic: A group to provide a refuge from all
the bandwidth fails in part because the ballot for it gets lost in all
the bandwidth.
Robert Rusbasan
> Wonderful. But the popular assumption had to be that a lot of the noise would
> go away because school let out for the summer. The only problem is... it
> hasn't. The number of posts put up here in the last week is roughly 20% lower
> than it ever was when bandwidth wastage was at its worst. (The basic numbers:
> roughly 400 posts a week now, was as high as 500)
The assumption that number of posts is proportional to number of readers
probably doesn't hold water. A lot of the regulars seem to have year-
round access. A much higher percentage of the lurkers probably don't.
Furthermore, when a group gets so big, people tend to stop participating
in it, so the number of articles is somewhat self-limiting, and therefore
not proportional to the number of readers.
> If that number of 60,000 readers is at all true, then the measure shouldn't
> have had any problems. It clearly isn't. Everybody at my alternate site
> (which I posted from a couple times a few weeks ago) is automatically
> subscribed to every existing newsgroup once they get their account, until they
> go in and unsubscribe the group. One has to wonder exactly how many people in
> the world that type of set-up accounts for.
I know. The readership stats are a big joke. I know quite a few
people that never unsubscribe to groups -- they just go to the groups
they want to read. And how many people have more than one account?
I personally could have been counted as two people with two Purdue
accounts I had, and both of those accounts had huge .newsrc files, so
I could have been counted as a reader of thousands of groups. To further
illustrate how inaccurate this is, however, I use an offline reader from
my Nyx account, so the place from which I actually read rsp-w would NOT
have counted me as a rsp-w reader because the packet generator does not
use the .newsrc file.
And I've already mentioned how the counting software erroneously assumed
that nyx.misc, a local group, was a global group, and listed it near the
top with 250,000 readers. It got that value by extrapolating from the
maybe 5,000 readers that the group has at Nyx, which is a totally
worthless way of evaluating the readership. For a local Nyx group,
5,000 readers at Nyx = 5,000 readers worldwide.