[INTERVIEW] Newsday 8.15.08 Interview with Tito Santana
Evad Seltzer
Interview with Tito Santana
Pro Wrestling Revolution returns to the Upper Room World Center at 722
Deer Park Avenue in Dix Hills Saturday night for another loaded show
featuring the young stars of PWR, as well as faces from the past.
Tickets are just $10 and $15. More information on the show is
available at PWR’s official web site.
tito.jpeg
Along with Jimmy Hart and Bushwacker Luke, one of the legends who will
be on hand for the show will be one of my favorite wrestlers growing
up, multi-time Intercontinental champion Tito Santana, who will be
selling and signing a few rare copies of his book “Tales from the
Ring.”
I had the opportunity to chat with Tito about his book, returning to
New York, his induction into the WWE Hall of Fame, WWE’s history of
casting racial gimmicks, working with Shawn Michaels early in HBK’s
singles career, and his few regrets in a storied career.
AC: I know you still come around every once in a while for independent
shows in New York. Going back to your days headlining in Madison
Square Garden, this has always been a big city to perform in. Can you
talk about how the crowds here are different than in other places?
TS: To me, the New York crowd is probably one of the most difficult
crowds there is. I always heard that if you can get over in New York,
you can get over anywhere. But once you get over, if they like you,
they like you. It’s a good feeling. It’s just like in any professional
team. Look at the Yankees and the Mets. A lot of people are not able
to wrestle in New York.
AC: And some of your biggest moments were here. I’m guessing being
part of the first match ever at WrestleMania must have been a pretty
big thrill.
TS: Oh yeah. And I had a great feud with Greg Valentine in New York.
We had curfew matches, no time limit matches. We just did all kinds of
stuff.
AC: Let’s go into that a little. WWE’s been showing a lot of your work
recently on its WWE 24/7 On Demand channel, and it’s pretty clear that
what you were doing, with Greg and with some other people you worked
with, was so different than what was otherwise going on in the WWF at
the time. It really wasn’t wrestling, as much as cartoon entertainment
for kids. But you and a handful of other people were still going out
there and putting on long, dramatic wrestling matches. Why was that
important to you, when it really wasn’t part of the WWF product?
TS: That was my style, and I believe that’s what helped me get over.
The world champion, Hulk Hogan, and I had completely different styles.
I don’t want to be the one that knocks Hulk Hogan. He still got over
like a million dollars and sold a ton of tickets and a lot of
merchandise. The last thing I want to do is knock Hulk. That’s what
was so different back then, compared to now – Everybody had a
different style. You had George “The Animal” Steele, you had the
Bushwackers, you had myself, Bundy, Kamala – all different gimmicks.
Now everybody pretty much resembles each other. They’ve got those big
muscle bound bodies. They don’t even wear different costumes. They
pretty much look the same when they hit the ramp, compared to in the
years past when I was around. Everybody was a different character.
AC: You were part of the first nine WrestleManias, which was a record
at the time. What did it mean to you that you were kind of the go-to
guy for all those major shows?
TS: It was important. At the time, I was in the WWF longer than
anybody else had been. There have been other guys who have stayed
there longer since. But at the time I had the longest streak of being
in the World Wrestling Federation. And for somebody who was not Hulk
Hogan, it was a pretty good run. I believe that the only reason was
because my work. I was able to be utilized in ways where I had to put
guys over at times, and I was still able to stay over with the fans.
People believed in Tito Santana, regardless of whether I was going
down or not.
AC: Did you ever wish you turned heel in the WWF?
TS: Yes, I did. I asked Vince McMahon when (Rick) Martel and I split
up, if I could be that would be the heel when the split up came. When
we came back, unknown to myself – and I’m sure Rick Martel had known
this for quite a while – he was going to be coming back as “The
Model.” I’m sure he practiced, and if he didn’t practice, he did a
great job as “The Model.” So I just have the tendency to believe that
all this was already set up.
AC: Do you have any regrets about that? Do you wonder how much more
you could have extended your career there if you were able to freshen
up your act with a heel turn?
TS: Yeah. I do feel I could have had another great run as a heel,
because I saw wrestlers with a lot less ability than I had that were
able to make the transition from babyface to heel. So I felt that I
had a big enough understanding for the business where I could have
made the transition, and I could be the one in control of the match.
In the past, as the babyface, I used to like to follow the heel and
integrate my style with them. But I figured I was knowledgeable enough
where I could be a Mr. Perfect or Mr. Wonderful type of wrestler.
AC: One thing I’ve always wanted to ask you because the WWF has
historically had this reputation for casting racially-insensitive
characters, right up until now with Cryme Tyme – this black tag team
that just robs everybody. Did you ever feel you fell victim to that,
especially with the “El Matador” gimmick? You know, “We have a Mexican
guy so let’s put a sombrero on him.” Were you ever offended by some of
what they did with your character?
TS: No, I know that I got pushed as a Mexican, and I was very, very
proud to represent the Hispanics throughout the country and throughout
the world. He gave me the Matador gimmick, and I believe I that I did
a pretty good job as the Matador, but I believe that Vince McMahon
didn’t really have big, big plans for the Matador. It was just a way
of pacifying me for a little bit longer. I don’t think he wanted me to
go somewhere else, which I had no intention of doing. Once I quit, I
didn’t want to go to WCW and be on the road. I had enough of being on
the road. I wish they had pushed El Matador and let El Matador get
over. As much money as he spent on the character, I thought he was
really going to push it. But that was not the case.
AC: You took on Shawn Michaels in his first singles match at a
WrestleMania. Did you know sense at the time that he would go on to be
one of the two or three best wrestlers of this generation?
TS: Yeah. That was the beginning of a big push for Shawn Michaels. He
was very well liked. At the time, there were so many great wrestlers
that anybody they would have chosen… It’s like when they chose Hulk
Hogan as the world champion. I believe there was so many wrestlers
that could have done the job with all the promotion he ended up
getting. The same thing with Shawn Michaels. There were so many young
guys and guys who had been there, that whoever Vince had decided to
push, Vince knew how to get over. He just happened to be the lucky
one. Without a doubt he was able to carry the load. He was a great
worker. And to me, that’s professional sports – just happening to me
in the right place at the right time. I happened to me in the right
place at the right time in 1983. And Shawn happened to be at the right
place at the right time in 1991 or thereabouts. It’s a lot of luck.
AC: Do you ever begrudge that you were never given a run with the
world title?
TS: I did get a top main event push when me and Greg were main
eventing... Me and Greg sold out big arenas without Hulk Hogan.
AC: Sure, and later with Randy Savage as well.
TS: … At one point Bobby Heenan told me that Vince McMahon did surveys
and I was the third most recognizable athlete in the world at one
point. Hulk Hogan was number one. One of the tennis players was number
two. And they said I was number three. And Vince told Sgt. Slaughter
that I was getting more fan mail at one point than anybody in the WWF.
So that made me feel good. At the time, the babyfaces didn’t wrestle
against the babyfaces. So I never expected a shot against Hulk Hogan.
I did get one shot, when the [Iron] Sheik was world champion in
Philadelphia… Of course he lost it the following Monday. The crowd
almost doubled in Philadelphia from one month to another. I was in the
middle card the previous month with Sheik. And then he was the world
champion the next month and we were the main event and it doubled.
AC: Do you think about how much your life would have been different
and the WWF’s fortunes would have been different if they gave you a
run with the world title?
TS: I think my life would have been different. I don’t think the WWF’s
fortunes would have been different. Vince McMahon is all about money.
Whoever he chooses to promote, he’s going to market them, and he’s
going to make money with whoever he decides to go with it. I was just
unfortunate that I wasn’t the one that he chose. But for the run that
I had, I really can’t complain. I was very, very lucky to have the run
that I had in the WWF.
AC: I was there in New York City when you were inducted into the WWE
Hall of Fame in 2004. When I’ve talked to wrestlers who aren’t in the
hall of fame, they kind of play it down, and talk about how the
business is a work and there’s no real criteria for being inducted –
that’s it’s very political. But the people who are in it, obviously,
speak very well of it. What did it mean to you to get inducted and
what are your thoughts on the hall of fame?
TS: My thought is that it’s very important to the wrestling fans, and
really the wrestling fan is the only one who really matters. When I
first went in there, I didn’t know what to expect. Maybe some of the
wrestlers, some of my peers don’t believe that I deserve to be in the
hall of fame. But I believe that all of us who are in it deserve it.
And there’s a bunch who haven’t gotten in there who will get there.
It’s a big honor for the WWF to get you into the hall of fame. They’re
even recognizing people who are deserving who were outside the WWF.
Our business is entertainment, and it made me feel like the WWF thinks
that I was one of the best performers in the WWF, deserving to be in
the hall of fame. For me it’s an honor, and it’s shame that in our
business there are a lot of wrestlers who are very bitter and are not
doing very well financially. And they blame everybody else except
themselves. I believe most of the guys who worked on top made a lot of
money and if they had saved their money, they’d be in a different
situation.
AC: Does anybody come to mind who you feel should be in the hall of
fame who isn’t there yet?
TS: I believe Bundy should be in there.
AC: Do you think your old partner Rick Martel should be in there?
TS: I don’t doubt that Rick Martel will be in there soon enough. I
don’t know how many years Ric was in the WWF, but I think he more than
deserves to be in there. They spread them out. They only put so many
at a time. I think he will be. He’s certainly well-deserving to be in
there. Is Jake in the hall of fame?
AC: He’s not, no. Not yet. A lot of guys from your era aren’t in yet.
Savage isn’t in yet.
TS: Well, Savage, I think is because of problems that Vince had. I
don’t know. I don’t even want to talk about it, because I don’t know.
AC: Yeah. I’ve heard. What do you think about the nostalgia kick that
WWE is on now? For years, they didn’t acknowledge anything that was
more than a few years old, and now, in between the 24/7 channel, and
MSG Classics, and the line of classic action figures. There seems to
be more of an appreciation now for the history of your era than there
has been in a long time.
TS: I think probably the fans are the ones – I think they do a lot of
surveys and they’re finding out that the wrestling my era is still
positive compared to what’s going on now. To me, the legends are still
superior – we were certainly better workers than what they have now.
You have Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker. I consider Triple H a pretty
good worker. There’s a few good workers. But there are some guys who
will never get a chance to learn from guys like we did, day in and day
out. It’s a shame. I think the fans are the ones that run a lot of
what’s going on now.
AC: Can you tell me about how you came to write your book, and what
you think of the final product?
TS: I think the final product was great. I had a big influence when I
was an eighth grade student. A coach was very influential in my life
and got me started in sports the following year. He tried to get me to
go out for sports in my eight grade year, but coming from a Mexican
family, who were migrants with very little money, I thought we had to
buy our equipment. I didn’t even ask my mom if I could play. I just
thought there was no way we could afford to buy the equipment for
this. It was out of the question. So, I believe I could have gone the
wrong way in life, but because of that coach who got me involved in
sports, I believe everything that I’ve accomplished, he had a little
bit to do with. So I started thinking, way before it got as big as it
did, when I used to travel in a plane, I started making notes and
keeping a diary. I just said, ‘Some day, there’s a chance that I might
publish a book. And if I can help influence one person the way I was
influenced…” I know the difference it made in my life. I could have
gone the drugs route. We lived right on the border, and a lot of my
friends did go into drugs, you know selling, and doing the heavy-duty
drugs in South Texas. I was very blessed that I had Coach Sanchez, who
guided me and was my big influence.
I talk about my life a little bit. I talk about my experience with
promoters. I went through some hard times dealing with promoters. I
talk about Ole Anderson, who is not very well liked by too many people
in our business, who made life miserable for me. He tried to
manipulate my life, and I stuck with it. I talk about my experiences
on the road with the WWF, and friendships with other wrestlers. I just
try to cover pretty much everything. I talk a little about drugs, and
how some of my friends are not around anymore because they got to
heavily involved with drugs. I just try to capture a little bit of
life in our business.