Finnish Flash !
Garry Holmen
>WATCH OUT !!! HE`S COMING!
>
>Worlds best player TEEMU SELANNE is ready to score again!
>Winnipeg Jets is going to the top with Selanne.
>He will do over 70 goals and 50 assits on next season. I`m sure about that.
>
> What do you think about that?
Hmmm.... I think that some of our Finnish counterparts have been nipping
at the bottle again.... 8^)
Teemu can be considered a good offensive player but the world's best?
He's not even the NHL's best...
I think he might be a contender if he figured out that he also has to play
defense in his own end rather than sitting up near the blue line.
I'll think he'll have a good season this year but no where close to his
first season.
Garry
PS: With the lockout I hear that he's going back to Finland.
HANNU L A HIETANEN, 931-2407 306
> WATCH OUT !!! HE`S COMING!
>
> Worlds best player TEEMU SELANNE is ready to score again!
> Winnipeg Jets is going to the top with Selanne.
> He will do over 70 goals and 50 assits on next season. I`m sure about that.
If there ever will be a next season... sad, isn't it. 8(
Hannu
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GO JETS GO ! >>>>>>>> TEEMU ! >>>>>>> TEPPO ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> TAPPARA >>>>>> CANADIENS >>>>>>> BLACKHAWKS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
M{kinen Ville
Worlds best player TEEMU SELANNE is ready to score again!
Winnipeg Jets is going to the top with Selanne.
He will do over 70 goals and 50 assits on next season. I`m sure about that.
Paul Middler
>Teemu can be considered a good offensive player but the world's best?
>He's not even the NHL's best...
>I think he might be a contender if he figured out that he also has to play
>defense in his own end rather than sitting up near the blue line.
Hmmm...Teemu should play defense to improve his offense? During Gretzky's
big years do you think he actually played defense? If Bure stopped
hanging around the offensive blueline would he score 60 goals?
Paul
Adam Glover
A forward can not be oblivious to the defensive side of the game, especially
when killing penalties and especially with all the defencemen in the league
who like to jump in and create four-man rushes. Even a forward has to take
care to avoid defensively stupid plays like cross-ice passes or passes up
the middle that could result in bad giveaways. Believe it or not there are
forwards in this league like Fedorov and Gilmour who are capable of being
great two-way players who can both defend and score. It is quite reasonable
to say that a player can't be considered the best in the world if he is
a defensive liability, whether he scores 60-70 goals or not.
--
"I can't get laid 'cause everyone is dead." -- Thurston Moore
Adam Glover, kool...@io.org or g3gl...@cdf.toronto.edu.
Etobicoke, Ontario, Canada.
Ben Lai
: A forward can not be oblivious to the defensive side of the game, especially
: when killing penalties and especially with all the defencemen in the league
: who like to jump in and create four-man rushes. Even a forward has to take
: care to avoid defensively stupid plays like cross-ice passes or passes up
: the middle that could result in bad giveaways. Believe it or not there are
: forwards in this league like Fedorov and Gilmour who are capable of being
: great two-way players who can both defend and score. It is quite reasonable
: to say that a player can't be considered the best in the world if he is
: a defensive liability, whether he scores 60-70 goals or not.
First of all, Selanne IS NOT a big defensive liablilty.. I've seen him
backcheck on more than a few occasions..
Also, comparing Selanne to Fedorov and Gilmour <shampoo man> is like
comparing apples and oranges. Selanne is a winger; Sergei and Doug are
centermen. When was the last time a winger won the Selke? Or better yet,
can you even find another winger that can both score and defend?
Probably not many. :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------- --
Ben Lai <ben...@unixg.ubc.ca> University of British Columbia
World's #1 Wpg Jets fan.. CANADA
"So long, and thanks for all the fish."
Lauri Tarkkonen
>Adam Glover (kool...@io.org) wrote:
>: A forward can not be oblivious to the defensive side of the game, especially
>: when killing penalties and especially with all the defencemen in the league
>: who like to jump in and create four-man rushes. Even a forward has to take
>: care to avoid defensively stupid plays like cross-ice passes or passes up
>: the middle that could result in bad giveaways. Believe it or not there are
>: forwards in this league like Fedorov and Gilmour who are capable of being
>: great two-way players who can both defend and score. It is quite reasonable
>: to say that a player can't be considered the best in the world if he is
>: a defensive liability, whether he scores 60-70 goals or not.
>First of all, Selanne IS NOT a big defensive liablilty.. I've seen him
>backcheck on more than a few occasions..
>Also, comparing Selanne to Fedorov and Gilmour <shampoo man> is like
>comparing apples and oranges. Selanne is a winger; Sergei and Doug are
>centermen.
> When was the last time a winger won the Selke?
How about the former captain of Montreal Canadiens Bob Gainey?
> Or better yet, can you even find another winger that can both
> score and defend?
I would think that Jari Kurri is not a bad scorer, he has several +50
goals seasons and is shomewhere in the top 10 in the all time scoring
list. He has been a candidate dor Selke a couple of times, and even if
he did not win it, you would not say that he can not defend.
Esa Tikkanen has several key goals to his credit and one of the top
defensive specialists. He plays mainly wing even though he can play
center as well.
Gordie Howe was a winger, not very bad in scoring, though he
never scored more than 2000 points or 1000 goals in the NHL,
there were hardly many players the coaches of Red Wings wanted
on hte ice to protect a one goal lead in the late minutes of
the game.
>Probably not many. :)
Depends where you put the limit. I believe that there are many of
them, starting the list of the 'first of the shadows' Montreal
Canadiens Claude Provost, at his time 20 goals were considered
the treshold to stardom, he acchieved that but in the key games
he was the one shut out Bobby Hull, Frank Mahovlich etc.
In a transitional game it is quite difficult to assess the players,
what they do depends on whom they play with and what is their
assignment in different situations. When Wayne Gretzky was at his
best in Edmonton, Glenn Sather used him quite lot as a penalty
killer, he was leading the league in short handed goals as well.
I would not think that Sather would but a defensive liability on
the ice on a short handed situation. No, but the mere presence of
Wayne made the life of the opposition point men uneasy: you miss
the puck once at the blueline and teh 99 escapes to score. It had
an deteriorating effect on their power play. But because he received
already most of the other trophies he was not considered for the
Selke. What is better defensive tactick than to let Waune keep
the puck behind the enemy goal. As far he got the puck there the
opposition has a very slim shance of scoring. :-).
- Lauri Tarkkonen
Garry Holmen
> I always though Primeau was primarily a center? or?
Hi Kristjan,
I believe that Primeau played the left wing (according to my NHL source books)
last season but they could be wrong. Any Detroit fans know for sure?
Garry
Kristjan Helgi Stefansson
>In article <37vv70$m...@nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca> ben...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ben Lai) writes:
>>First of all, Selanne IS NOT a big defensive liablilty.. I've seen him
>>backcheck on more than a few occasions..
>Oooohhh... Selanne back checks on a few occasions... I guess that makes him
>a defensive forward. Heck Selanne can score but his NHL impact definitely
>isn't his defensive role. When the Jets trust him enough to put out
>consitently on penalty killing and when he back checks all the time is when
>I'll consider him even closer to a well rounded player.
>>Also, comparing Selanne to Fedorov and Gilmour <shampoo man> is like
>>comparing apples and oranges. Selanne is a winger; Sergei and Doug are
>>centermen. When was the last time a winger won the Selke? Or better yet,
>>can you even find another winger that can both score and defend?
>>
>>Probably not many. :)
>What does the Selke and being a centre have in common? As for great wingers
>with scoring and defensive skills how about: Fleury, Primeau, Mellanby,
>Bellows, Richer, King, Graves, Kamensky, Linden, Tkachuk and probably one
>of the best defensive/scorers of the past decade Kurri?
I always though Primeau was primarily a center? or?
>I'll have to figure out when the last time a winger won the Selke... I'll
>look up my info first before I put my foot in my mouth.
>Garry
Kristjan
Tommi Vartiainen
>First of all, Selanne IS NOT a big defensive liablilty.. I've seen him
>backcheck on more than a few occasions..
>Also, comparing Selanne to Fedorov and Gilmour <shampoo man> is like
>comparing apples and oranges. Selanne is a winger; Sergei and Doug are
>centermen. When was the last time a winger won the Selke? Or better yet,
>can you even find another winger that can both score and defend?
Jari Kurri. One of the better goalscorers and two-way players ever.
--Tommi
Tris Williams
: In article <37vv70$m...@nnrp.ucs.ubc.ca> ben...@unixg.ubc.ca (Ben Lai) writes:
: >First of all, Selanne IS NOT a big defensive liablilty.. I've seen him
: Oooohhh... Selanne back checks on a few occasions... I guess that makes him
: a defensive forward. Heck Selanne can score but his NHL impact definitely
: isn't his defensive role. When the Jets trust him enough to put out
: consitently on penalty killing and when he back checks all the time is when
: I'll consider him even closer to a well rounded player.
: >Also, comparing Selanne to Fedorov and Gilmour <shampoo man> is like
: >comparing apples and oranges. Selanne is a winger; Sergei and Doug are
: >centermen. When was the last time a winger won the Selke? Or better yet,
: >can you even find another winger that can both score and defend?
: >
: >Probably not many. :)
: What does the Selke and being a centre have in common? As for great wingers
: with scoring and defensive skills how about: Fleury, Primeau, Mellanby,
: Bellows, Richer, King, Graves, Kamensky, Linden, Tkachuk and probably one
: of the best defensive/scorers of the past decade Kurri?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hear hear!!! Kurri's defensive abilities have long been overshadowed by
his offensive skills. It's good to see someone else realises that Kurri
is one of the best two-way players *EVER*! Kurri for the Selke! Kurri for
the Selke!
: Garry
Tristan Williams # The preceeding message was brought to you by me only
tr...@laser.ljcrf.edu # Go LA Kings!! Win the Cup in '95!!
Garry Holmen
>backcheck on more than a few occasions..
Oooohhh... Selanne back checks on a few occasions... I guess that makes him
a defensive forward. Heck Selanne can score but his NHL impact definitely
isn't his defensive role. When the Jets trust him enough to put out
consitently on penalty killing and when he back checks all the time is when
I'll consider him even closer to a well rounded player.
>Also, comparing Selanne to Fedorov and Gilmour <shampoo man> is like
>comparing apples and oranges. Selanne is a winger; Sergei and Doug are
>centermen. When was the last time a winger won the Selke? Or better yet,
>can you even find another winger that can both score and defend?
>
>Probably not many. :)
What does the Selke and being a centre have in common? As for great wingers
with scoring and defensive skills how about: Fleury, Primeau, Mellanby,
Bellows, Richer, King, Graves, Kamensky, Linden, Tkachuk and probably one
of the best defensive/scorers of the past decade Kurri?
I'll have to figure out when the last time a winger won the Selke... I'll
Roger Maynard
>Maybe I didn't made myself clear.. I did not say Selanne was the second
>coming of Bob Gainey.. My point was that Selanne's defensive short
>comings were way over exaggerated.. He is no less defensively aware as
>your average NHL winger.. I have yet to see him make any horrible
Nonsense. It is impossible to exaggerate Salami's defensive short-comings.
The only time you will find him south of his own blueline is during face-offs.
>defensive mistakes like Rob Brown or Pavel Bure. (Speaking of Bure,
>here's an example of a horrible defensive player doing penalty killing)
I wonder how many goals Bure could have scored if he pitched his tent at
centre and waited for Housley feeds.
>As for some of the examples of "great" offensive/defensive wingers...
>>Keith Primeau only scored 31 goals as a career high.
>>Derek King has even less goals than Primeau.
>>Stephane Richer..36 goals.. even his career high was only 50-60 goals.
>>Fleury, Graves, Tkachuk..are they great offensive players? Only Fleury
> had passed the 100-point plateau.
And how many times has bun-stuffing scored 50 goals or garnered 100 points?
While I wouldn't have Richer on my team every one of the other players listed
comes out way ahead of heartburn on the depth chart.
>As for Gordie Howe..what can I say?
Too much has already been said about the most-overrated player in the
history of team sport. But one thing has never been said by serious
observers of the game, and that is that "Mr. Hockey" could play without
the puck. That's because he couldn't. Couldn't check worth a damn.
>So, there aren't that many great offensive/defensive wingers. If you
>look at all the top scoring winger today (one's that are capable of 60+
>goals) such as Bure, Mogilny, Hull etc.. Selanne does not compare badly
>defensively.. Not AT All.
In recent memory only Hull has spent even half as much of his career hovering
about the centre redline banging his stick on the ice as the cholesterol kid.
cordially, as always,
rm
Ben Lai
: Nonsense. It is impossible to exaggerate Salami's defensive short-comings.
: The only time you will find him south of his own blueline is during face-offs.
: I wonder how many goals Bure could have scored if he pitched his tent at
: centre and waited for Housley feeds.
: And how many times has bun-stuffing scored 50 goals or garnered 100 points?
: While I wouldn't have Richer on my team every one of the other players listed
: comes out way ahead of heartburn on the depth chart.
: In recent memory only Hull has spent even half as much of his career hovering
: about the centre redline banging his stick on the ice as the cholesterol kid.
Hmmm... How could I possibly rebut such a classy/mature response? :->
FIRST QUESTION: How many Jets games had you seen in the last 2 years? In
order to make a valid judgment on Selanne's so-called "defensive
shortcomings", it is essential for one to watch at least a few actual (in
an arena) games and a couple dozen TV games.. Unless you live in Winnipeg
or own a satellite (with subscription), you probably can't make a fair
statement.
I used to live in Winnipeg, and last season my friends send me videos of
Jets games periodically. Selanne never strike me as being poor defensively.
He is comparable to many other wingers defensively that I was very
famililar with, such as Pat Elynuik, Doug Smail, Paul Maclean. Granted,
none of these other wingers were big name stars(although both Smail and
Maclean had played in an All-Star game), it supports my original argument
that Selanne's defensive is average, not pathetic.
SECOND QUESTION: How long did I took for your massive cerebrum to come up
with the nick name 'Salami' for Selanne?
P.S. Bure might score that 70+ goal if he had Housley.. but would a coach
be stupid enough to put them on the ice together?
Feel free to response.. I'm more than ready for you..
-------------
Ben Lai <ben...@unixg.ubc.ca> University of British Columbia
World's #1 Numminen fan.. CANADA
Kristjan Helgi Stefansson
>Garry
Yeah I know he played wing last season but I always thought his "real"
position was center. Any Wings fan who can clear my thoughts?
Kristjan
Ben Lai
liability, and how that are few good offensive/defensive wingers etc...
Maybe I didn't made myself clear.. I did not say Selanne was the second
coming of Bob Gainey.. My point was that Selanne's defensive short
comings were way over exaggerated.. He is no less defensively aware as
your average NHL winger.. I have yet to see him make any horrible
defensive mistakes like Rob Brown or Pavel Bure. (Speaking of Bure,
here's an example of a horrible defensive player doing penalty killing)
As for some of the examples of "great" offensive/defensive wingers...
>Keith Primeau only scored 31 goals as a career high.
>Derek King has even less goals than Primeau.
>Stephane Richer..36 goals.. even his career high was only 50-60 goals.
>Fleury, Graves, Tkachuk..are they great offensive players? Only Fleury
had passed the 100-point plateau.
As for Gordie Howe..what can I say?
So, there aren't that many great offensive/defensive wingers. If you
look at all the top scoring winger today (one's that are capable of 60+
goals) such as Bure, Mogilny, Hull etc.. Selanne does not compare badly
defensively.. Not AT All.
--
Scott Stuart
Let us not forget that Teemu led Winnipeg in plus/minus his rookie
year. Also, there are some fairly poor defensive players doing penalty
killing: Pavel Bure, Nelson Emerson... Anyway, I think what most people
are saying is that of course Selanne is no candioate for the Selke trophy,
but he is an adequate defensive forward. And, he can learn. He's nowhere
near as bad as say, Mogilny when he came into the league. He was quoted
as saying, "Defense, you've got the wrong man." Selanne is still better
than some of those people masquerading as defenseman is thios league- are
you listening, Steve Duchesne. So, adequate defense and exceptional
offense make Teemu a pretty damn good player, but not the best in the
league. Unless he scores for the rest of his career on pace with his
rookie season.