Carolina Hurricanes draw 6,083 on Tuesday
Ralph Slate
Yes, that isn't a typo. On just the second home game of the season,
the Hurricanes drew 6,083 people. So the honeymoon is over. And I
really have to wonder how many of those tickets were free -- I'm
guessing about 1/2 of them. Word has it that most of the 18,000
attending opening night were freebies too.
Can the NHL have a bigger embarassment than this? I don't think so.
Can someone give me the name of Peter Karamonos' accountant? With his
creative bookkeeping, I think we can balance the federal budget and
still have about $10,000 left over for every person in the country.
Here's why:
Karamonos said that in Carolina, he expects to lose $5 million this
year if he averages 7,000 (yeah, good luck with season tix at under
3,000). But if he stayed in Hartford, he supposedly would have lost
$25 million this year. He probably would have averaged about 13,000
people.
How can having 6,000 more people over 40 games, at an average ticket
price of $40, let you LOSE $20 million? If my math is correct, he'd
gain nearly $10 million in revenue from ticket sales.
Does he mean to imply that he's getting $30 million more this year by
playing in Greensboro? Just how much is he charging for parking down
there?
And the Hurricanes haven't even yet proven to the Carolina area that
they just aren't that good of a team. People may not like to pay $50
to see hockey down there, but I'll bet that they like it even less
when the hockey is *lousy*.
I guess we'll see just how deep Peter Karamonos' pockets are. He's
gambling a lot that when he moves to Raleigh (in TWO YEARS) the fans
will be beating down his doors to see a lousy team. I say he'll be out
of Carolina by the year 2000.
Ralph
sla...@rpi.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
Minor League Hockey Card Page: http://www.rpi.edu/~slater
Internet Hockey Database: http://pages.map.com/~slater/ihd
----------------------------------------------------------
Rich Sullivan
In article <61f8lu$6...@nr1.calgary.istar.net>, i...@remove-this-part.spots.ab.ca says:
>
>Ralph Slate <sla...@rpi.edu> wrote:
>: Yes, that isn't a typo. On just the second home game of the season,
>: the Hurricanes drew 6,083 people. So the honeymoon is over. And I
>: really have to wonder how many of those tickets were free -- I'm
>: guessing about 1/2 of them. Word has it that most of the 18,000
>: attending opening night were freebies too.
>
>was said to be about 1000.
>
>: Can the NHL have a bigger embarassment than this? I don't think so.
>
Hey Pete. Hartford dosen't look so bad now does it?? Dirtbag.
rs
Go Whalers (That's right, they're still the Whalers.)
Karmanos sucks.
Rich Sullivan
In article <61fq7u$630$1...@gatekeeper.vitro.com>, "Ron Cocuzzi" <cocu...@vitro.com> says:
>
>I wa at opening night and the majority of the people were Penguins, Whalers
>(LOTS of them) and Primeau fans. I saw quite a few Primeau Wings sweaters
>in the stands. I can't see Karmonos making any money while in Greensboro,
>maybe once they move to Raleigh.
Pete. Just answer one (well maybe two) question(s) for me. If you had the fan support,
ticket sales (season and game), TV packages, do-dad sales and a city willing to pick up
the losses for the next 2 years, would you be happy? DAMN RIGHT YOU WOULD! So why'd you
up and kick Hartford in the balls? I'll tell you why. Greed. I feel bad for the players
being stuck with an owner like you but feel good in the fact you ain't gonna make a dime
in NC be it Greensboro or Raleigh.
rs
Steve G.
Ralph Slate wrote:
>Can someone give me the name of Peter Karamonos' accountant?
Lou Beer.
>Karamonos said that in Carolina, he expects to lose $5 million this
>year if he averages 7,000 (yeah, good luck with season tix at under
>3,000). But if he stayed in Hartford, he supposedly would have lost
>$25 million this year. He probably would have averaged about 13,000
>people.
This is more of pistol pete's creative manipulations of the facts.
The $25 million he said he would lose in Hartford was based on the
idea of a total lame duck season, with a move already announced for
season's end. The underlying assumption to the big loss was that the
majority of season ticket holders, as well as advertisers, would
abandon the team for the final lame duck season, thus driving revenues
way down.
But this isn't anything new for pete...this is the same man who chose
last year to "reduce" the seating capacity of the Hartford Civic Center
by eliminating the sky box seating (935 seats) from the attendance figures
because he wasn't getting the revenue from those seats (it went straight
to the city). So the team's season average, which was reported at 13,700,
was really about 14,400 had they reported attendance like every other team
in the league.
And yet the team gives out free tickets to Carolina 3000's games like water,
handing them out as tips in restaurants, etc, but has no problem counting
those freebies on opening night to create "the largest crowd in franchise
history."
>I guess we'll see just how deep Peter Karamonos' pockets are. He's
>gambling a lot that when he moves to Raleigh (in TWO YEARS) the fans
>will be beating down his doors to see a lousy team. I say he'll be out
>of Carolina by the year 2000.
Remember this: pete *still* hasn't actually signed the lease in Raleigh...
-SG
[Ex-Whaler, now Wolf Pack, season ticket holder. It's not NHL calibre,
but then, hey, neither were the Whalers...]
GOON 32
>Hey Pete. Hartford dosen't look so bad now does it?? Dirtbag.
>
>
>rs
>Go Whalers (That's right, they're still the Whalers.)
>Karmanos sucks.
I agree, you people were loyal and all they did was shit on you! Trust me the
nhl is having more problems than just carolina, I heard that the phoenix
organization lost a whole lot of money last year. It's almost better
relocating back to winnipeg>
Andrew Chalupka
In article <61f8lu$6...@nr1.calgary.istar.net>,
i...@remove-this-part.spots.ab.ca wrote:
>
>The 6083 number is paid attendance. The actual attendance there
>was said to be about 1000.
I'd buy that. Watching replays from that game, you can see the place is
deserted.
North Carolina, a hockey market my ass. If this team was in Hamilton or
Winnipeg or hell, anywhere in Canada...the place would be packed.
...Andrew
--
E-mail me at: andcha at nortel dot ca
John M. Daniel
On Wed, 8 Oct 1997, Ralph Slate wrote:
> Yes, that isn't a typo. On just the second home game of the season,
> the Hurricanes drew 6,083 people. So the honeymoon is over. And I
> really have to wonder how many of those tickets were free -- I'm
> guessing about 1/2 of them. Word has it that most of the 18,000
> attending opening night were freebies too.
18,661. Third-highest opening night in the NHL. And if there were freebies
being given away, I'd have liked to have known about it (I'm not saying there
weren't any, but certainly nothing like "most").
> Can the NHL have a bigger embarassment than this? I don't think so.
Unless you count the 5781 who showed up for Flyers at Devils in December
1995. Granted, that was during a snowstorm (though Tuesday night was the
mayoral election in Raleigh, FWIW)
Naming a team the Mighty Ducks is right up there.
> Can someone give me the name of Peter Karamonos' accountant? With his
> creative bookkeeping, I think we can balance the federal budget and
> still have about $10,000 left over for every person in the country.
> Here's why:
> (analysis snipped)
I make absolutely no claims to understanding Karamanos' logic. But if
he's truly the money-grubbing bastard every hockey fan says he is, he
sure wouldn't be making these moves unless he was positive there'd be
money in it. I think that both the arena deal and the TV deal are pretty
sweet-- especially the arena, which will largely be paid for by NC State
basketball (and local taxpayers, but that's a whole 'nother story).
> And the Hurricanes haven't even yet proven to the Carolina area that
> they just aren't that good of a team. People may not like to pay $50
> to see hockey down there, but I'll bet that they like it even less
> when the hockey is *lousy*.
Data point: I pay $15 for my Hurricanes tickets (with student ID). Most
seats are $30. But yeah, the 'Canes aren't much good, are they?
> I guess we'll see just how deep Peter Karamonos' pockets are. He's
> gambling a lot that when he moves to Raleigh (in TWO YEARS) the fans
> will be beating down his doors to see a lousy team. I say he'll be out
> of Carolina by the year 2000.
I think he's right. The Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area is *much* more
cosmopolitan and much more wealthy than Greensboro. Add to that the
500,000+ northerners who have moved into the RTP area in the past decade
(presumably bringing some degree of hockey enthusiasm with them), and you
have the makings for a decent fan base. I'm not saying they'll lead the
NHL in attendance, but your prediction of financial ruin within two years
seems off target.
In the meantime, that potential Raleigh fan base (I'm including myself
here) will continue to make the drive to see the marquee teams and the
weekend games, and blow it off when the LA Kings come to town on a Tuesday
night.
As for season tickets-- why on earth would I buy season tickets? At the
cavernous, made-for-ACC-basketball Greensboro coliseum (now the largest in
the NHL--is that right?), I will always be able to get tickets to any
games I want to see. So why buy a season ticket if I'm not going to be
able to make it to all the games? To assure myself of getting tickets in
the playoffs? Bwahahahaha!
Note to Karmanos and Hurricanes marketing team:
You're going about it all wrong. You're trying to market the team to the
wrong audience. In this state so divided between New South and Old South,
you've got to go where the money is. Forget sponsoring a NASCAR driver.
Become the Official Hockey Team of the Carolina Panthers. In selecting a
hog as a mascot, you're paying homage to our second-most-reviled industry
(why not a dancing cigarette? Or Joe Camel?). Put an IBM computer on
skates and you'll more accurately reflect the employment of your
ticketbuying public. And that country music at the arena? Puh-leeze.
Throw on some Superchunk or Squirrel Nut Zippers if you want local music.
Remember, you'll do better trying to fill the parking lot with Lexuses
(Lexii?) than rusty F-100s.
I look at it this way:
I've now seen my first hockey game. I liked it, a lot. That's probably
true for most of the 18,000 people there Friday.
Enrollment in Raleigh youth hockey has *tripled* since last year.
A new market, new fans, and kids lacing up skates who last year were
lacing up Air Jordans-- that's got to be good for hockey in the long run.
Go 'Canes (gotta practice that)
-JD
bonfire
Here are some things to think about concerning home attendance at
Hurricanes games:
1. These are the Hurricanes and Kings we are talking about -- hardly a
marquee matchup. I think attendance at Greensboro Coliseum will be
significantly higher when teams like the Red Wings, Avalanche, and Stars
come calling.
2. It's only their second home game, so it's really too soon to
consider the phrase "Hurricanes fans" an oxymoron.
3. Perhaps the Carolinas are not as well suited for high attendance as
other new markets are. I know that the Stars have enjoyed large crowds
most of the time they have been in Dallas (the exception being their
second season in town, when they finished in last place). What I'm
saying is that the Stars owe a lot of their attendance to "Yankee
transplants" who now live in the D/FW Metroplex. Of course, there are
also many native Texans who have fallen in love with the game (including
yours truly). Anyway, it's possible that the Carolinas don't have the
high Yankee transplant population that other new NHL markets (Dallas,
Phoenix, Florida) do. I don't know this for certain, so please let me
know if this is not the case.
So let's not write off the Carolina fans after only two games!
bonfire
bonfire
Scott Surgent wrote:
>
> The Coyotes are in no danger of folding. They found the money somewhere to sign
> Tkachuk, Roenick, others. An arena that is not designed for hockey is the main
> culprit, but the fan support is very definitely there.
It seems to me that whomever was responsible for the design of America
West Arena is an idiot. It works fine for basketball, but is terrible
for hockey.
Think about this: Reunion Arena (in Dallas) opened in 1981, long before
the Stars played their first game there. But the arena was designed to
accommodate both sports! It is even said that Reunion has some of the
best sight-lines of any arena in the NHL. (Reunion has no luxury
suites, however, so a new arena will eventually replace it.)
America West opened in 1992, around the time that the NHL's latest
expansion/relocation frenzy was under way, and Phoenix had to have been
a prime candidate at that time to get a team one way or another!
Therefore, I reiterate: Whomever was responsible for the design of
America West Arena is an idiot.
bonfire
Vern Faulkner
L> From: leean...@aol.com (LeeAnselmo)
L> I guess the deal from Carolina includes more parking and
L> concession revenues for the team.
Don't people have to come to the game, first?
I agree with another like-minded hockey nut. I'll be quite happy to see
Carolina draw as much as a girls' high-school basketball game. :)
Kirk Dooley
America West was the brain-child of Jerry Colangelo, who was tired of
playing in Veterans Mamorial Coliseum which seats about 14,000 for
basketball with no skyboxes. When the AWA (as we locals call it) was in
the design stage, Colangelo asked the owners of the IHL Roadrunners
(r.i.p.) if they wanted to play there. The Runners decided to take a
pass--so the arena was designed for basketball with an ice rink put in
as an afterthought.
The Coyotes would probably play at the Coliseum if there were more seats
and skyboxes. As it is, they are working with Mike Bidwill (son of
Bill) to get a "National Sports Center" built. The NSC would consist of
a sports-related theme park, a PGA golf course, a first class hotel, and
as the centerpiece a domed stadium with a retractable roof and a grass
field. There may be an arena built seperately for the Desert Dogs, or
they may play in the dome--if it's built.
The operative word is if. After Colangelo managed to get the Maracopa
County Board of Supervisors, sitting as a County Stadium District Board,
to approve a 1/4-cent sales tax without a public vote in order to get
the Bank One Ballpark built (which was completely legal under Arizona
state law), public opinion managed to get the legislature to pass a law
to put any subsequent taxes to a vote. And this is a state where a
transit-tax was put up with the slogan: "Progress or Decay." (Decay
won by a 3-1 margin, by the by.)
Kirk Dooley--Mesa, AZ
NJDevilCup
In article <61evmj$d...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, sla...@rpi.edu (Ralph
Slate) writes:
>Yes, that isn't a typo. On just the second home game of the season,
>the Hurricanes drew 6,083 people. So the honeymoon is over. And I
>really have to wonder how many of those tickets were free -- I'm
>guessing about 1/2 of them. Word has it that most of the 18,000
>attending opening night were freebies too.
>
>Can the NHL have a bigger embarassment than this? I don't think so.
>
>Can someone give me the name of Peter Karamonos' accountant? With his
>creative bookkeeping, I think we can balance the federal budget and
>still have about $10,000 left over for every person in the country.
>Here's why:
NHL owners are excellent at creative bookkeeping when they want to
move. Just look at Norm Green. Or the initial purchase of the Ottawa
Senators.
The biggest thing that killed Hartford was TV revenue. That's also what
kills small-market Canadian teams. It's a shame, because fans in
Quebec, Winnipeg, Minnesota and Hartford were all very loyal but lost
their teams to "bigger" markets.
Given the level of play in Carolina, I expect attendance to remain flat.
You said it Ralph, what an embarrassment to the NHL.
Kuch
Go Devils! Let's Go Devils!
**************************************************************************
New Jersey Devils - 1995 Stanley Cup Champions!
Your source for hockey autograph INFORMATION:
http://members.aol.com/njdevilcup/autogrph.htm
Go Minnesota Vikings! Go Gopher Hockey!
Adam McConnel
And did anybody see Sportscenter (late ed.) last night? Not only did
Eisen and Levy have a great time w/ the "exteeeemely liberal figure" of
6,083, but they also mentioned that Karamanos sent letters to all of the
Whalers' old season ticket holders offering them free tickets. Collision
course to wackiness. .
Brian Farenell
In a previous article, ri...@wal.ab.com (Rich Sullivan) says:
>In article <61f8lu$6...@nr1.calgary.istar.net>, i...@remove-this-part.spots.ab.ca says:
>>
>>Ralph Slate <sla...@rpi.edu> wrote:
>>: Yes, that isn't a typo. On just the second home game of the season,
>>: the Hurricanes drew 6,083 people. So the honeymoon is over. And I
>>: really have to wonder how many of those tickets were free -- I'm
>>: guessing about 1/2 of them. Word has it that most of the 18,000
>>: attending opening night were freebies too.
>>
>>The 6083 number is paid attendance. The actual attendance there
>>was said to be about 1000.
>>
>>: Can the NHL have a bigger embarassment than this? I don't think so.
>>
>
>Hey Pete. Hartford dosen't look so bad now does it?? Dirtbag.
ESPN showed a graphic that Saturday night's home opener of the
AHL's Hartford Wolfpack drew nearly 13,000.
--
Brian Farenell Hey parents: the kids' sports belong to the kids!!
Glens Falls, NY Clarkson Univ. '95 RPCV Guinea '95-97
New England Revolution... FORZA LAZIO!... Leicester City FC... USA Hockey '98!
US Men's Soccer for France '98! US Women's Soccer for USA '99!
Darcy Johnston
The main reason why the Huricanes will make more money then the Whalers
isn't based on attendence, but more on corporate sponsorship. As was
mentioned in a previous post. The team was losing corporate sponsorship in
Hartford, and stood to lose more in future seasons.
It is too bad that more people are not showing up to the games, as the
team doesn't look so bad just yet. The other problem they have is that
they are playing in Greensboro, which is a couple of hours away from
Raleigh, which has a much higher population. Maybe I'm naive in believing
this, but I think it is possible that attendence will go up once they move
to Raleigh. And with the corporate sponsorship they are receiving, they
can afford to wait it out a bit. Revenue will also go up once they get a
real TV deal.
Teebu Philip
In article <61h9t8$2...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>, fj...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brian Farenell) writes:
|>
|> ESPN showed a graphic that Saturday night's home opener of the
|> AHL's Hartford Wolfpack drew nearly 13,000.
|> --
|> Brian Farenell Hey parents: the kids' sports belong to the kids!!
|> Glens Falls, NY Clarkson Univ. '95 RPCV Guinea '95-97
|> New England Revolution... FORZA LAZIO!... Leicester City FC... USA Hockey
|> US Men's Soccer for France '98! US Women's Soccer for USA '99!
of course, that begs the question, what else is there to do in hartford
but to watch hockey?
--
Teebu Philip EMAIL: tph...@nortel.ca
NORTEL (RTP Lab) XPM Diagnostic Development, Dept. 3X41
35 Davis Dr. Voice: (919) 991-2602 ESN: 294-2602
RTP, NC 27709 FAX: (919) 991-4126 ESN: 294-4126
Kevin McGowan
I agree with all the above statements and I have a better perspective:
I live in NC. All you bashers out there ought to remember this: When
the NBA was expanding back in 86 or so all the so called "experts" were
laughing at Charlotte's bid. One guy even said "The only franchise NC will
ever get is one with golden arches." I wonder what that guy said after
the Hornets sold out about 5 years in a row, and some of those years they
were bad teams. It's amazing that ever since the Whalers announced they
were moving all of Canada seems to have aquired an amazing knowledge of
NC. And all that knowledge seems to be negative facts. I bet half the
bashers don't even know where Greensboro is in relation to Raleigh and that
they are vastly different type of markets. But hey, no one ever said you
had to know the facts before you bash.
John Bryer
Are you kidding me??? Most of NC is made up of peole from Buffalo &
Pittsburgh! The probelm is the population is located in Raleigh &
Charlotte. WHo wants to drive that far when we can see the game on the
DSS.
Josh Lee
Ron Cocuzzi (cocu...@vitro.com) wrote:
: I wa at opening night and the majority of the people were Penguins, Whalers
: (LOTS of them) and Primeau fans. I saw quite a few Primeau Wings sweaters
: in the stands. I can't see Karmonos making any money while in Greensboro,
Primeau fans? I'm still laughing at that one.
Josh
: Ron
: Ralph Slate wrote in message <61evmj$d...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
: >
Valerie Hammerl
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.971008...@godzilla6.acpub.duke.edu>,
>
>1995. Granted, that was during a snowstorm (though Tuesday night was the
>mayoral election in Raleigh, FWIW)
>Naming a team the Mighty Ducks is right up there.
>
Tell me you are not comparing a snowstorm to an election. Driving in
a severe snowstorm can be hazardous to deadly. Driving to a game or
taking two minutes to vote for mayor? Come on. That's the lamest
excuse I've ever heard.
--
Valerie Hammerl
ham...@acsu.buffalo.edu
John M. Daniel
On 9 Oct 1997, Valerie Hammerl wrote:
> >
> >Unless you count the 5781 who showed up for Flyers at Devils in December
> >1995. Granted, that was during a snowstorm (though Tuesday night was the
> >mayoral election in Raleigh, FWIW)
> >Naming a team the Mighty Ducks is right up there.
>
> Tell me you are not comparing a snowstorm to an election. Driving in
> a severe snowstorm can be hazardous to deadly. Driving to a game or
> taking two minutes to vote for mayor? Come on. That's the lamest
> excuse I've ever heard.
>
That's why I added the "FWIW", which, to people who occasionally use
newsgroups, means "For what it's worth". In other words, I, too, realize
that that's no excuse, but wanted to put forward the facts as they are.
And, FWIW, Tuesday night's attendance was only the *seventh-worst*
attendance figure in franchise history. So Hartford produced six greater
"embarrassments to the NHL". Whether those low figures were caused by
snowstorms, tsunamis, or the Hartford Gerbil Riots of 1982, or perhaps
people not wanting to watch a team stink up the ice, is unknown to me.
Anyway, there should be a bigger crowd for the Devils game (I'll be
there) unless Governor Hunt mandates a statewide day of mourning in the
wake of Dean Smith's retirement.
Go 'Canes
-JD
K...@cyberdude.com
> What I'm saying is that the Stars owe a lot of their attendance to "Yankee
> transplants" who now live in the D/FW Metroplex. Of course, there are also
> many native Texans who have fallen in love with the game (including yours
> truly). Anyway, it's possible that the Carolinas don't have the high Yankee
> transplant population that other new NHL markets (Dallas, Phoenix, Florida)
> do. I don't know this for certain, so please let me know if this is not the
I don't know much about the Greensboro area, but I do know that the
Raleigh/Durham area has a lot of high-technology companies, a
highly-educated population, and a lot of transplants from the northern
USA. I earned my undergraduate degree from RPI in Troy, New York and
I knew several of my fellow classmates who got jobs and relocated to the
Raleigh-Durham area after graduation. IBM's largest concentration of
employees outside of New York State, I believe, is in the Raleigh-Durham
area. Thus, the area would appear to be a good market for hockey.
Isn't there any arena available for hockey in the Raleigh-Durham area?
Even if its capacity is small, it would be a lot better to play there
than in Greensboro. It is better to have consistent sell-outs in a
10,000 seat arena than to play in a 20,000 seat arena that is less than
half-full.
Since the team is playing in Greensboro for only two years, the lack of
support derives from Greensboro's lack of enthusiasm for supporting a
team that will soon be playing in Raleigh. This situation is similar to
the Tennessee Oilers in the NFL. The Tennessee Oilers moved from Houston
prior to this season and will be playing in a new stadium in Nashville
beginning in 1999. However, this season they are playing at the Liberty
Bowl in Memphis and are drawing crowds of 20 or 30 thousand or less. They
chose to play in Memphis this season because the largest stadium
available in Nashville, Vanderbilt Stadium, has only 41,000 seats, about
21,000 less than the Liberty Bowl.
Charlie Mattos, a Nashville resident who submitted a letter to Sports
Illustrated this week, writes, "Had the Oilers played their home games
this season and next in Nashville instead of Memphis, the issue of no
support would never have come up". Mattos reports that the Oilers have
42,000 permanent-seat license holders, most of whom live in central
Tennessee, so Vanderbilt Stadium would have been sold out for the season
in advance. Since the Oilers can't come close to drawing a crowd in
Memphis that would fill Vanderbilt Stadium, it appears absurd to me that
the team in playing this season (and perhaps next season) in Memphis.
Recently I read a newspaper columnist who opined that because of the low
attendance of the should force the Oilers to play at Vanderbilt Stadium
next season. Perhaps the NHL should do a similar thing with the
Hurricanes - they should force them to play in the Raleigh-Durham area as
soon as possible, regardless of the capacity of the largest available
arena.
Ken Akerman
Fort Collins, Colorado
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Danny D
bonfire <no...@tamu.edu> wrote in article <343C16...@tamu.edu>...
I can't speak for Greensboro, but in the Raleigh metro area there are a
large number of Yankees, most of the population growth has been coming from
NJ, NY, etc. I know because over the last ten years, my mom, sister, and
now brother and their families have all moved down there. I think the 80
miles is a real tough thing. If you are in Greensboro, you know the team
is gone in two years, you probably have never seen or cared about hockey;
you might go once or twice for the novelty, but there's no way your gonna
spend $150-$200 per game to bring the family twice a week. How it will
fare in Raleigh is definitely a mystery right now -- it was a political
decision to pitch for the team, since they already started building the
arena and needed to justify the expense.
I agree it's early yet to write off the Carolina fans, but I think that
Karamanos f**ked up big time with this 80 mile away arrangement, they'd
have done better as a 2 year lame-duck in Hartford.
-dan
da...@cnct.com
> 3. Perhaps the Carolinas are not as well suited for high attendance as
> other new markets are. I know that the Stars have enjoyed large crowds
> most of the time they have been in Dallas (the exception being their
> second season in town, when they finished in last place). What I'm
> saying is that the Stars owe a lot of their attendance to "Yankee
> transplants" who now live in the D/FW Metroplex. Of course, there are
> also many native Texans who have fallen in love with the game (including
> yours truly). Anyway, it's possible that the Carolinas don't have the
> high Yankee transplant population that other new NHL markets (Dallas,
> Phoenix, Florida) do. I don't know this for certain, so please let me
bill smith
Although there are a lot of cold weather transplants in NC, I don't know
if you can count on these people to attend games. When the Kings were a
struggling franchise, the owner commented something to the effect that
there were 2 million Canadians in the LA area and they all hated hockey.
Quite frankly, I think the surge of hockey in California had more to do
with roller blading than anything else. Kids roller blade, get bored,
and then start playing hockey. California loves a show; if the Ducks
struggle, it will be interesting to see if there are "real" fans. The
love affair with the Sharks is definitely starting to hit the rocks.
Dustin Christmann
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.971008...@godzilla6.acpub.duke.edu>,
John M. Daniel <jda...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
Yeah, but the Ducks sell out the Pond every night, against the good teams
and against the scrub teams.
--
Thanx, = "I can definitely say I'm the only guy in MLS who's
Dustin Christmann = taken 'Beef and Sheep Production.'" -- Alexi Lalas
==========================================================================
Mike Eisler
In article <19971008135...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>>Go Whalers (That's right, they're still the Whalers.)
>>Karmanos sucks.
>
>I agree, you people were loyal and all they did was shit on you! Trust me the
> nhl is having more problems than just carolina, I heard that the phoenix
> organization lost a whole lot of money last year. It's almost better
> relocating back to winnipeg>
Buffalo drew 7000 tonight. For the remaining small market and Canadian
teams, this is all excellent news. The value of those franchises if
transferred out of their small markets is now plummeting. Too late for
Hartford, Phoenix, and Quebec city though.
--
-Mike Eisler Solaris NFS group
NO_...@Eng.Sun.Com_SPAM Sun Microsystems, Inc.
remove the prefix 'NO_' and suffix '_SPAM' to reply.
If encryption is a munition, why are some people both against gun
control and in favor of crypto control?
Dustin Christmann
In article <343C19...@tamu.edu>, bonfire <no...@tamu.edu> wrote:
>Think about this: Reunion Arena (in Dallas) opened in 1981, long before
>the Stars played their first game there. But the arena was designed to
>accommodate both sports! It is even said that Reunion has some of the
>best sight-lines of any arena in the NHL. (Reunion has no luxury
>suites, however, so a new arena will eventually replace it.)
I have to agree here. I'm a partial-season ticket holder for the Stars
and have seats four rows from the top of the arena at one end of the ice.
Nonetheless, the only thing that I can't see is the lamp at the other end
of the ice, because the scoreboard hanging from the ceiling is in the way.
Other than that, however, I can see what's happening on the entire ice very
well.
It's sad that Reunion Arena is being replaced, but hopefully, the new arena
will have sightlines that are similarly good.
Kevin McGowan
>
>Isn't there any arena available for hockey in the Raleigh-Durham area?
>Even if its capacity is small, it would be a lot better to play there
>than in Greensboro. It is better to have consistent sell-outs in a
>10,000 seat arena than to play in a 20,000 seat arena that is less than
>half-full.
>
The minor league hockey team plays there now. Fayetteville has a place
that holds 10,000 but it is also an hour away. An interesting tidbit is
that these 2 years in Greensboro will be the only time the Greensboro
coliseum ever turned a profit. Based on that fact alone more people there
should go to see the team to thank them for bringing the facility out of
the red.
Valerie Hammerl
In article <61kflv$p7j$1...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>,
Mike Eisler <NO_...@eng.sun.com_SPAM> wrote:
>In article <19971008135...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
>GOON 32 <goo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>Hey Pete. Hartford dosen't look so bad now does it?? Dirtbag.
>>>
>>>
>>>rs
>>>Go Whalers (That's right, they're still the Whalers.)
>>>Karmanos sucks.
>>
>>I agree, you people were loyal and all they did was shit on you! Trust me the
>> nhl is having more problems than just carolina, I heard that the phoenix
>> organization lost a whole lot of money last year. It's almost better
>> relocating back to winnipeg>
>
>Buffalo drew 7000 tonight. For the remaining small market and Canadian
>teams, this is all excellent news. The value of those franchises if
>transferred out of their small markets is now plummeting. Too late for
>Hartford, Phoenix, and Quebec city though.
Buffalo is another kettle of fish. They are drawing poorly because
of fan boycott and season ticket holder cancellations resulting from
upper-level mismanagement. The non-rehire of Jack Adams award
winner Ted Nolan was a sore point with many ticket holders, who cancelled
their season tickets. Things grew worse with the LaFontaine trade, since
it's generally believed it was a matter of money but management won't admit
it. Now Selke award winner Michael Peca still remains unsigned. Things
aren't pretty down at Seymour Knox III Plaza.
--
Valerie Hammerl
ham...@acsu.buffalo.edu
Ralph Kennedy
We locals most certainly do not call it AWA.
America West, yes, Purple Palace, well maybe, if
someone is in a silly mood, but nobody calls it AWA.
Once in awhile you'll see (not hear) AWA in a sports
headline to save space.
But anyway, getting back to suitability for hockey,
America West is a very strange mixture of seats that
range from better than anywhere else in the league, to
absolutely horrible.
Everyone knows about the terrible cheap seats from
which you can't see one goal, but ironically, the front
row of the upper deck in that area has some seats that
hang out over the ice for some of the most spectacular
views in hockey.
The main problem with the arena, however, is that
the sight lines are meant to converge upon a small
basketball court in the center of the arena, not upon
a long and wide hockey surface, so railings that don't
block the view of basketball or center ice do interfere
with vision of the goals and corners, for instance. I've
sat upstairs in one section where row 8 seats are beautiful,
whereas moving DOWN two rows to row 6, you can't see
through the stair railings to see the net.
Also, other seats, you can't see through other patrons
lower down to see the net. A friend and I were sitting
near the front of the upper deck one game when two guys
came down from about 6 rows up and said to please sit back
upright in our seats the entire game, because when we leaned
forward on the railing, they couldn't see the net. Yeah
right, like we were going to sit like West Point plebes the
entire game.
So in other words, the bargain basement cheap seats
aren't the only ones with problems. There are many "sucker"
seats with very poor view interspersed amongst the more
expensive seats, too.
The Coyotes definitely need to do what they have to
to get their own arena.
--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet: ken...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Vern Faulkner
>The 6083 number is paid attendance. The actual attendance there
>was said to be about 1000.
AC> North Carolina, a hockey market my ass. If this team was in Hamilton or
AC> Winnipeg or hell, anywhere in Canada...the place would be packed.
Damn straight.
Chris Conroy
The Freak
On Wed, 08 Oct 1997 03:44:08 GMT, sla...@rpi.edu (Ralph Slate) wrote:
Newspaper hear said 7000 bought tickets, only 1000 at the game. 1000
freaking fans... OUCH
Dave Bush
> North Carolina, a hockey market my ass. If this team was in Hamilton or
Yeah - but you know why Hamilton will never have an NHL-quality team?
Toronto would want one too.....
- Dave
-----
Dave Bush
Buying & selling video arcade games? Visit my web page at
http://www.northnet.org/gossamer
Dave Bush
> Newspaper hear said 7000 bought tickets, only 1000 at the game. 1000
> freaking fans... OUCH
I was a big Cornwall Aces fan when they were in the AHL.
They usually drew about double that and couldn't support the team.
AN AHL TEAM! How much more does that have to hurt financially?
Great move Mr. Karmanos - I'm sure you've made much more money
doing this instead of announcing the team would be moving in two
years and staying in Hartford until the new arena was built.....
fred
you should have moved to minnesota
Vern Faulkner
K> attendance of the should force the Oilers to play at Vanderbilt Stadium
K> next season. Perhaps the NHL should do a similar thing with the
K> Hurricanes - they should force them to play in the Raleigh-Durham area as
K> soon as possible, regardless of the capacity of the largest available
This would require the NHL, and thus Gary "Spineless" Bettmann, to have some
form of common sense, initiative, and least-likely of all: concern for the fan
of the game and the game itself.