Six months of Trump

[John B.]

Bills signed: 42
Major legislation signed: 0
Tweets: 991
Days spent at Trump-owned resorts: 40
Campaign rallies held: 5
Press conferences held: 1
Approval rating: 36%

Make room on Mt. Rushmore!

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/politics/donald-trump-six-months/index.html

[Carbon]

This will be remembered as the worst presidency in US history.

[B...@onramp.net]

And hopefully one of the shortest. But William Henry Harrison only
served 31 days before he died, so Trump has already outlasted at least
one other.

[John B.]

Read the NYT interview. He's now attacking his own people.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 08:25:41 -0700 (PDT), "John B."
<john...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Read the NYT interview. He's now attacking his own people.

And it is not fazing them. Sesssions says he's not resigning.
His followers will never stop and think about what he really is.....
a two-faced prick.

[John B.]

Sessions was one of Trump's earliest and most fervent supporters. He
was the first senator to come out in favor of him. And this is what
he gets. I don't recall any previous president publicly bad-mouthing
his own appointees.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-20 11:27 AM, Moderate wrote:
> "John B." <john...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

> Well he is getting rid of 16 regulations for every one regulation
> added.

Cite, please.

>
> It looks like the Senate is back on track to pass healthcare with
> his leadership.

"Leadership"!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 13:27:06 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>"John B." <john...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

>Well he is getting rid of 16 regulations for every one regulation
> added.
>

>It looks like the Senate is back on track to pass healthcare with
> his leadership.

Have you been in a coma for the past week? Trumpcare is kaput, and
the vote for repeal now and replace later is going nowhere. Thank
goodness for a few smart Republican Senators.


His "leadership" fell flat on it's face.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 14:45:06 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
<clip>

>>>It looks like the Senate is back on track to pass healthcare with
>>> his leadership.
>>
>> Have you been in a coma for the past week? Trumpcare is kaput, and
>> the vote for repeal now and replace later is going nowhere. Thank
>> goodness for a few smart Republican Senators.
>>
>>
>> His "leadership" fell flat on it's face.
>>
>

>You need to keep up. Trump met with the Senate and even Rand Paul
> is coming around.

You need to wake up. It's dead. Period. There are others that won't
allow it to pass.
>
>McConnell's poor leadership had doomed the Bill. Trump breathed
> new life into it yesterday.

LOLOLOLOLOL. No way.

Bullshit. Donald Trump is a total loss as POTUS. You only make a
fool of yourself by throwing coquets his way.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 14:50:23 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>"DumbedDownUSA" <dumb.a...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>>
>> He may already have done so; have you read the whole of the CNN site
>> before asking?
>>
>
>It is crystal clear that libs rarely read citesand their reading
> comprehension is minimal. This group has already proven
> that.

The one thing this group has proven over and over is that you're a
dumb, concrete headed asshole.

[-hh]

Here's a summary from Robert Reich
(July 18 at 7:35pm):

6-Month Update for Trump Voters

1. He told you he’d repeal Obamacare and replace it with
something “beautiful.” You bought it. But he didn’t repeal
and he didn’t replace. (Just as well: His plan would have
knocked 22 million off health insurance, including many of you.)

2. He told you he’d cut your taxes. You bought it. But tax
“reform” is stalled. And if it ever moves, the only ones
whose taxes will be cut are the wealthy.

3. He told you he’d invest $1 trillion in our nation’
crumbling infrastructure. You bought it. But his infrastructure
plan, which was really a giveaway to rich investors, is also stalled.

4. He said he’d clean the Washington swamp. You bought it.
But he's brought into his administration more billionaires,
CEOs, and Wall Street moguls than in any administration in
history, to make laws that will enrich their businesses,
along with former lobbyists, lawyers and consultants who
are crafting new policies for the same industries they
recently worked for.

5. He said he’d use his business experience to whip the
White House into shape. You bought it. But he created
the most chaotic, dysfunctional, back-stabbing White
House in modern history, in which no one is in charge.

6. He said he’d close “special interest loopholes that
have been so good for Wall Street investors but unfair
to American workers." You bought it. But he picked a
Wall Street financier Stephen Schwarzman to run his
strategic and policy forum, who compares closing those
loopholes to Hitler’s invasion of Poland.

7. He told you he’d “bring down drug prices” by making
deals with drug companies. You bought it. But now the
White House says that promise is “inoperative.”

8. He said that on Day One he’d label China a “currency
manipulator.” You bought it. But then he met with China’s
president and declared "China is not a currency manipulator."

9. He said he wouldn’t bomb Syria. You bought it. But
then he bombed Syria.

10. He called Barack Obama “the vacationer-in-Chief”
and accused him of playing more rounds of golf than
Tiger Woods. He promised to never be the kind of
president who took cushy vacations on the taxpayer’s
dime, not when there was so much important work to be
done. You bought it. But in his first 6 months he has
spent more taxpayer money on vacations than Obama did
in the first 3 years of his presidency. Not to mention
all the money taxpayers are spending protecting his
family, including his two sons who travel all over the
world on Trump business.

11. He said he’d force companies to keep jobs in America.
You believed him. But despite their promises, Carrier,
Ford, GM, and the rest are shipping jobs to Mexico and China.

12. He said he’d create coal jobs. You believe him. He hasn’t.
But here's what he has done: Since 1965 a federal program
called the Appalachian Regional Commission has spent $23
billion helping communities in coal states fund job
retraining, reclaim land, and provide desperately needed
social services. A.R.C. helped cut poverty rates almost
in half, double the percentage of high-school graduates,
and reduce infant mortality by two-thirds. Trump’s first
proposed budget eliminates A.R.C.

<http://www.robertreich.org/post/163175691715>


Note also that the "Repeal without Replace" has already been
assessed by CBO: conclusion is that after one decade, there
would be +32 million uninsured. Similarly, insurance rates
would grow: "would reach about 50 percent [higher] in 2020,
and premiums would about double by 2026".


<http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/19/cbo-obamacare-repeal-bill-would-raise-number-of-uninsured-by-27-million-by-2020.html>


-hh

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:17:59 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:

>I hard headed that is for sure.
>
>Not everyone who disagrees with you is dumb.
Correct.
Besides, it was the group that was mentioned.

> Certainly not me.
Incorrect.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-20 12:45 PM, Moderate wrote:
> B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:

> You need to keep up. Trump met with the Senate and even Rand Paul
> is coming around.

Third time(or is it fourth)'s the charm!

>
> McConnell's poor leadership had doomed the Bill. Trump breathed
> new life into it yesterday.

You're a lot like Trump: everyone else is to blame!

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-20 3:32 PM, Moderate wrote:
> B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:17:59 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
>> <nos...@noemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>>>>

>>>> The one thing this group has proven over and over is that you're a
>>>> dumb, concrete headed asshole.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I hard headed that is for sure.
>>>
>>> Not everyone who disagrees with you is dumb.
>>

>> Incorrect.
>>
>
> Haha.
>
>

When you're reduced to that level of dishonesty in order to get a cheap
"win"...

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 17:32:04 -0500 (CDT), Moderate

<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:17:59 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
>> <nos...@noemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>>>>

>>>> The one thing this group has proven over and over is that you're a
>>>> dumb, concrete headed asshole.
>>>>

>>>I hard headed that is for sure.

You is.

>>>
>>>Not everyone who disagrees with you is dumb.
>>

>> Incorrect.
>>
>Haha.

Changing what I wrote means it hit home.

Haha.

[John B.]

I usually ignore Moderate, but this is too funny. Leadership?
Hahahahaha!

[John B.]

I'm just going to sit on my fat, lazy ass and let Obamacare fail, then
the Democrats will come begging to work with us on fixing it. "I'm not
going to own this. The Republican Party is not going to own this."
That's leadership, alright!
"Nobody knew health care was so complicated." More leadership!

[Carbon]

On 07/20/2017 02:30 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2017-07-20 11:27 AM, Moderate wrote:
>> "John B." <john...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>>

>> Well he is getting rid of 16 regulations for every one regulation
>> added.
>
> Cite, please.
>
>> It looks like the Senate is back on track to pass healthcare with
>> his leadership.
>
> "Leadership"!
>
> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

That is truly breathtaking.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 20:39:11 -0500 (CDT), Moderate

>Oh sorry for pointing out another with a little humor. I forgot
> you have no sense of humor.You are a serial liar.

You are really dense. I thought it was funny and that's why I teased
you about your mistake above...you know "I hard headed..." and
repeated your "Haha".
Now you're the one who is humorless. Except it is hilarious that you
don't even know what a lie is when you do it so often.

[Dene]

Moderate....these libs circle jerk on irrational Trump hate and you are always in the middle.

Like it?

[Alan Baker]

"Hate"?

No.

>
> Like it?
>

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-20 6:39 PM, Moderate wrote:
> B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 17:32:04 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
>> <nos...@noemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 15:17:59 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
>>>> <nos...@noemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The one thing this group has proven over and over is that you're a
>>>>>> dumb, concrete headed asshole.
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>> I hard headed that is for sure.
>>
>> You is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not everyone who disagrees with you is dumb.
>>>>
>>>> Incorrect.
>>>>
>>> Haha.
>>
>> Changing what I wrote means it hit home.
>>
>> Haha.
>>
>

> Oh sorry for pointing out another with a little humor. I forgot
> you have no sense of humor.
> You are a serial liar.
>

Says the guy who just (tacitly) admitted he lied by altering someone
else's words.

[Alan Baker]

> Still waiting on a CITE for ANY lie I have told.

Just now.

When you altered Bobby's words in your reply.

>
> Zero, none, nada.
>
> No cites ever.
>
> Idiots.
>
> My integrity is solid.
>

[Carbon]

If your little club includes the likes of immoderate, you are probably in a place you shouldn't be.

[John B.]

We libs are incredulous that Trump is president and dismayed at what
a disaster his administration has been so far. There's nothing
irrational about that. In fact, a majority of Americans feel the
same way.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 21:01:13 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

I've said frequently that I don't hate anyone, but Donald Trump
disgusts me in every way. How can anyone turn a blind eye to his
obvious sexism, braggadocio, lies and juvenile behavior is beyond me.
No, he isn't doing a good job Greg and you know it.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 00:10:24 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>Dene <gds...@aol.com> Wrote in message:

>>
>> Moderate....these libs circle jerk on irrational Trump hate and you are always in the middle.
>>
>> Like it?
>

>I like being honest. I call you out when your self interests are
> contrary to Capitalism, the good of the county and tax
> payers.

Your opinion is only that, an opinion.
>
>Obama Dems have buried the working class. You are lock step in
> many Obama policies until it hits your pocket book.

I've done very well under Obama and even Bush. Trump isn't going to
affect my personal life in any way except for taxes. That's not
opinion but fact.
>
>I design, build and innovate. That is how I make money. These
> ignorant liberals can't even read.

It's been made apparent here that you aren't the sharpest tool in the
box Mod.

>You want a government programs to suck money.

Another opinion, based on skewed beliefs.
>
>I am getting rich selling to foreign companies who can't function
> without me.

If that's true then you must have done so during the Obama years, or
has it only been in the last six months under the idiot's realm?

You really should changed your handle or try to live up to it.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 23:48:59 -0500 (CDT), Moderate

<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:

>Still waiting on a CITE for ANY lie I have told.
>

>Zero, none, nada.
>
>No cites ever.
>
>Idiots.
>
>My integrity is solid.

That too is an opinion based on skewed thinking.

[Dene]

I like discussing an actual issue. Trump hate is contrived by those who could never admit a Republican can do something right. Is that the club you're in, Carbs?

[Alan Baker]

Trump "hate" is something you've made up from the whole cloth...

...at least in the context of this group.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 08:38:33 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
wrote:

Yep, it is a stock reply that doesn't have anything to do with what's
said.

[MNMikeW]

He's the president.

[John B.]

This is utter bullshit, Greg. There is nothing contrived about the
fact that Trump has so far shown to be a truly awful president. If
he were a Democrat, no one would feel any differently. If you want
to discuss a specific issue, go right ahead. Tell us about one where
Trump has dome something good.

[Alan Baker]

Yup. And a dumpster fire of a president he is, too.

:-)

[Dene]

Here's a better question. Name one thing that Trump has done that you approve of? I've given an obvious list before but I'm not going to waste my precious time with a die hard Trump hater. So...show me.

[Dene]

Frankly I have trouble distinguishing between Carbs and the other leftists in this room. All hate Trump and the Republican agenda.

[Dene]

Hahahahaha when I think of Obama's "leadership." The ultimate empty suit.

[Dene]

On Thursday, July 20, 2017 at 4:41:15 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> Bills signed: 42
> Major legislation signed: 0
> Tweets: 991
> Days spent at Trump-owned resorts: 40
> Campaign rallies held: 5
> Press conferences held: 1
> Approval rating: 36%
>
> Make room on Mt. Rushmore!
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/politics/donald-trump-six-months/index.html

Name Obama's major legislation signed within his first six months....

[Dene]

On Thursday, July 20, 2017 at 4:45:32 AM UTC-8, Carbon wrote:

> On 07/20/2017 08:41 AM, John B. wrote:
>
> > Bills signed: 42
> > Major legislation signed: 0
> > Tweets: 991
> > Days spent at Trump-owned resorts: 40
> > Campaign rallies held: 5
> > Press conferences held: 1
> > Approval rating: 36%
> >
> > Make room on Mt. Rushmore!
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/politics/donald-trump-six-months/index.html
>

> This will be remembered as the worst presidency in US history.

If so, it will be a continuation of the past 16 years.

[John B.]

Non-answer noted. I'm not a Trump-hater. I don't hate him or anyone
else. But it's obvious to me and to most Americans that he is an
absolute disaster as president. People like you are part of a rapidly-
shrinking minority.

Sorry, I don't remember your list.

[John B.]

You have a habit of making claims without any supporting evidence.

[John B.]

This is not about Obama. The fact that you respond to every criticism
of Trump with a criticism of Obama shows that you have no defense of Trump.
But to answer your question, Obama signed Dodd-Frank on 7/21/09, six months
and one day into his term. Cash for Clunkers: 6/24/09. Credit Card Act:
5/22/09. Tobacco Control Act: 6/22/09.
http://www.ofdw.org/blog/?viewDetailed=00000

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

This is not about Obama. The fact that you respond to every criticism
of Trump with a criticism of Obama shows that you have no defense of Trump.
But to answer your question, Obama signed Dodd-Frank on 7/21/09, six months
and one day into his term. Cash for Clunkers: 6/24/09. Credit Card Act:
5/22/09. Tobacco Control Act: 6/22/09.
http://www.ofdw.org/blog/?viewDetailed=00

That's major??

[Dene]

Non-answer noted. I'm not a Trump-hater. I don't hate him or anyone
else. But it's obvious to me and to most Americans that he is an
absolute disaster as president. People like you are part of a rapidly-
shrinking minority.

Non-answer noted.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Fri, 21 Jul 2017 23:11:36 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

No, you have trouble listening. No one here has ever said that they
hate anyone.

[John B.]

Every one of those bills was more significant than anything Trump has
signed to date, particularly Dodd-Frank.

[John B.]

Here's my answer: Trump has accomplished absolutely nothing of note so far,
even with a Republican House and Senate. And he promised during the campaign
that he was going to do any number of things "so fast," and "right away."
If you have some fact-based defense of Trump's presidency, then I'm
sure we'd all love to see it. But it's pretty obvious that you don't.

[Dene]

No, you have trouble listening. No one here has ever said that they
hate anyone.

Semantics. How about vitriolic despisedness.

[Dene]

Here's my answer: Trump has accomplished absolutely nothing of note so far,
even with a Republican House and Senate. And he promised during the campaign
that he was going to do any number of things "so fast," and "right away."
If you have some fact-based defense of Trump's presidency, then I'm
sure we'd all love to see it. But it's pretty obvious that you don't.

Obviously you don't give it any credence to his executive orders, supreme court nomination, foreign-policy decisions, the state of the economy, illegal immigration decline, and that is doing everything he can, within his power, to pass legislation. Even if he healthcare reform is passed, it will not please you or the lying, leftist media that you feed your ideology with.

But....I could be wrong. There might be something about Trump or the Republican agenda that you approve of. So far you have not answered that question.

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

Every one of those bills was more significant than anything Trump has
signed to date, particularly Dodd-Frank.

Hardly major legislation. ACA and it's repeal is major legislation. So is tax reform, immigration, etc. Something your empty suit of a President never even tried to take on. But he sure looked good...

[John B.]

OK, here's your answer: There is nothing about Trump or the
republican agenda that I approve of.

I'm not familiar with all his EOs, as there have been so many. I know of one that overturned an Obama administration rule prohibiting coal mining operations from polluting rivers and streams. He said falsely that that would put coal miners back to work. Any president can make a SCOTUS nomination. The state of the economy has little or nothing with anything
he has done. His foreign policy decisions have been uniformly awful and he has offended and alienated all our most important allies. He was a pariah at the G20 meeting. Under Trump, ICE has visited a reign of terror on immigrants, breaking up families, deporting people who were brought
here as children and have done nothing wrong. You insult my
intelligence, and cast doubt on your own, by telling me I'm captive
to the "lying, leftist media."

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 12:34:22 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

>

>No, you have trouble listening. No one here has ever said that they
>hate anyone.
>
>Semantics. How about vitriolic despisedness.

Consistent repugnance is more correct.

[John B.]

This is ridiculous. Congress has not passed an ACA replacement,
a tax reform bill or an immigration bill. You're giving Trump
credit for things that haven't happened. Obama pushed for and signed legislation raising the top income tax bracket to 39.5% He pushed for an immigration bill that Congress considered but didn't pass. If you think Dodd-Frank wasn't major legislation, then you're more ignorant than I thought.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 12:44:26 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

It was major or Trump wouldn't try to overturn it. There is nothing
major or even worthwhile done so far since 1/20/2017.

[-hh]

Greg wrote:
> Obviously you don't give it any credence to his executive orders,

Not read them all, but several have clearly been assembled by rank amateurs,
which is part of the reason why some have gotten stomped on in the Courts.

> supreme court nomination,

A stolen seat.

> foreign-policy decisions,


> the state of the economy,

Momentum from the prior administration...particularly since he's not signed any
legislation to change the status quo. Plus it doesn't help that It looks like the
2018 budget may be late.

> illegal immigration decline,

It's been in decline for years prior 45 showing up.

> and that is doing everything he can, within his power, to pass legislation.

With Party majority's in both the House & Senate, that shouldn't be hard. What
does history tell us about how quickly things can get done in DC when both houses
and the POTUS are all held by the same party?

> Even if he healthcare reform is passed, it will not please you or the lying, leftist
> media that you feed your ideology with.

Oh, please: the Republicans have had 6 years to come up with a viable solution,
plus the eight months since the election where they knew they would have a triple
majority ... and they still only have the crap of a tax cut for the rich disguised as
healthcare reform - that's why they're getting pushback from their governors.

> But....I could be wrong. There might be something about Trump or the Republican
agenda that you approve of. So far you have not answered that question.

I'd really want to have an actual list of accomplishments to review point by point.
Greg can help out there byproviding a decent list. There might be something
with tax reform .. if it really is reform and not a tax cut. But it doesn't exist yet anyway.
Similarly, maybe some of the DoD bit...but this one depends on if the money's going
into the "reset" for ground, vs flashy new toys.

-hh

[Alan Baker]

If repealing the ACA is major legislation, then surely the ACA must be
major too...

[Alan Baker]

How about pure amazement at your gullibility and capacity for
self-deception?

[Carbon]

I wish you would stop with all this slander. I don't hate Trump, but like a lot of Republicans I understand that he is too corrupt and inept to be president.

In fact, I honestly feel sorry for the guy. He is going to destroy not only himself but his entire family with his hubris. He was able to get away with being in bed with the Russians when he was an idiot blowhard that everybody laughed at, but now he has the highest profile job on the planet. Even if he wasn't as corrupt as he is, he is just not smart enough to survive in this new environment.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-22 12:40 PM, Dene wrote:
> Here's my answer: Trump has accomplished absolutely nothing of note
> so far, even with a Republican House and Senate. And he promised
> during the campaign that he was going to do any number of things "so
> fast," and "right away." If you have some fact-based defense of
> Trump's presidency, then I'm sure we'd all love to see it. But it's
> pretty obvious that you don't.
>
> Obviously you don't give it any credence to his executive orders,

You mean the ones that have been struck down in whole or in part?

> supreme court nomination,

Stolen by the Republicans who refused to consider Obama's nominee...

> foreign-policy decisions,

Where he's giving Russia everything they could want!

> the state of the economy,

Which is still running on Obama's budget.

>illegal immigration decline, and that is doing everything he
> can, within his power, to pass legislation. Even if he healthcare reform
> is passed, it will not please you or the lying, leftist media that you
> feed your ideology with.

"Everything in his power" is apparently not enough to actually get
anything of significance passed.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-22 8:26 PM, DumbedDownUSA wrote:

> Somewhat ignoring the topic.
>

I was pointing out the logical inconsistency in Greg's post.

Of course, refuting Greg logically will usually get him to killfile you.

:-)

[Dene]

- hide quoted text -

On Saturday, July 22, 2017 at 3:44:28 PM UTC-4, Dene wrote:
> - show quoted text -
> Every one of those bills was more significant than anything Trump has
> signed to date, particularly Dodd-Frank.
>
> Hardly major legislation. ACA and it's repeal is major legislation. So is tax reform, immigration, etc. Something your empty suit of a President never even tried to take on. But he sure looked good...

This is ridiculous. Congress has not passed an ACA replacement.

Reread. ACA and it's repeal is major legislation. It happened in Obamas 2nd year.

a tax reform bill or an immigration bill. You're giving Trump
credit for things that haven't happened. Obama pushed for and signed legislation raising the top income tax bracket to 39.5% He pushed for an immigration bill that Congress considered but didn't pass. If you think Dodd-Frank wasn't major legislation, then you're more ignorant than I thought.

You've confirmed how close minded you are

[Dene]

OK, here's your answer: There is nothing about Trump or the
republican agenda that I approve of.

Shocker!

I'm not familiar with all his EOs, as there have been so many. I know of one that overturned an Obama administration rule prohibiting coal mining operations from polluting rivers and streams. He said falsely that that would put coal miners back to work. Any president can make a SCOTUS nomination. The state of the economy has little or nothing with anything
he has done. His foreign policy decisions have been uniformly awful and he has offended and alienated all our most important allies. He was a pariah at the G20 meeting. Under Trump, ICE has visited a reign of terror on immigrants, breaking up families, deporting people who were brought
here as children and have done nothing wrong. You insult my
intelligence, and cast doubt on your own, by telling me I'm captive
to the "lying, leftist media."

Close mindedness is not a characteristic of intelligence.

[Alan Baker]

What a complete lack of self-awareness...

[Alan Baker]

Irony!

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-22 11:24 PM, DumbedDownUSA wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> On 2017-07-22 8:26 PM, DumbedDownUSA wrote:
>>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-07-22 12:44 PM, Dene wrote:
>>>>> - show quoted text -
>>>>> Every one of those bills was more significant than anything
>>>>> Trump has signed to date, particularly Dodd-Frank.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hardly major legislation. ACA and it's repeal is major
>>>>> legislation. So is tax reform, immigration, etc. Something
>>>>> your empty suit of a President never even tried to take on. But
>>>>> he sure looked good...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If repealing the ACA is major legislation, then surely the ACA
>>>> must be major too...
>>>
>>> Somewhat ignoring the topic.
>>>
>>
>> I was pointing out the logical inconsistency in Greg's post.
>>
>

> Greg did not claim the ACA was not a major bill. It was not passed in
> the first six months so it was no under consideration for this topic.
>

He made a blanket statement:

'Something your empty suit of a President never even tried to take on.'

So the time frame is irrelevant.

[Alan Baker]

> /sigh/

>
> "So is tax reform, immigration, etc. Something your empty suit of a
> President never even tried to take on"
>

Do you get what the words "so is" indicate in that sentence?

They indicate that what came before are INCLUDED.

[John B.]

My revulsion to Trump is not closed-mindedness any more than your
your criticism of Obama is.

[John B.]

On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 1:53:12 AM UTC-4, Dene wrote:

> OK, here's your answer: There is nothing about Trump or the
> republican agenda that I approve of.
>
> Shocker!

I amend my statement: I approve of Trump's plan to spend the money
needed to repair infrastructure, which is badly needed. But he hasn't
said one word about it since becoming president.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 06:05:17 -0700 (PDT), "John B."
<john...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 1:53:12 AM UTC-4, Dene wrote:

<clip>

>> Close mindedness is not a characteristic of intelligence.
>
>My revulsion to Trump is not closed-mindedness any more than your
>your criticism of Obama is.

Bingo!

[John B.]

Hey, did you hear that the Japanese Prime Minister's wife, who is
fluent in English, was seated next to Trump at the G-20 dinner and
pretended not to speak English so she wouldn't have to talk to him?
Afterward, he tweeted that she was a "terrific lady," but didn't
speak a word of English, "not even hello." What a fucking idiot.

[Dene]

On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 1:53:12 AM UTC-4, Dene wrote:
> OK, here's your answer: There is nothing about Trump or the
> republican agenda that I approve of.
>
> Shocker!

I amend my statement: I approve of Trump's plan to spend the money
needed to repair infrastructure, which is badly needed. But he hasn't
said one word about it since becoming president.

- show quoted text -

Then you haven't been listening. Try reading something that reports all the news or better yet, listen to his interviews.

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

Hey, did you hear that the Japanese Prime Minister's wife, who is
fluent in English, was seated next to Trump at the G-20 dinner and
pretended not to speak English so she wouldn't have to talk to him?
Afterward, he tweeted that she was a "terrific lady," but didn't
speak a word of English, "not even hello." What a fucking idiot.

No...I didn't hear about this because I wouldn't waste my time reading or listening to something this irrelevant and likely untrue. I'm sure it's front and center to "journalism" you read.

Speaking of journalism, how about listening to Spicer's comments about the state of journalism these days....and get back to us.

[Alan Baker]

Present an example...

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-23 9:05 AM, Dene wrote:
> - show quoted text -
> Hey, did you hear that the Japanese Prime Minister's wife, who is
> fluent in English, was seated next to Trump at the G-20 dinner and
> pretended not to speak English so she wouldn't have to talk to him?
> Afterward, he tweeted that she was a "terrific lady," but didn't
> speak a word of English, "not even hello." What a fucking idiot.
>
> No...I didn't hear about this because I wouldn't waste my time reading or listening to something this irrelevant and likely untrue. I'm sure it's front and center to "journalism" you read.

It's absolutely true.

>
> Speaking of journalism, how about listening to Spicer's comments about the state of journalism these days....and get back to us.
>

Spicer? You're relying on Spicer?

LOL!

[Dene]

Both made promises. One is actually trying to fulfill them. The other sat on his skinny ass for six years and did NOTHING. You're both so biased that you can't see the distinction between 6 months and 6 years.

[Alan Baker]

Irony.

[John B.]

I already read papers that report all the news. I haven't read anything
about infrastructure. Care to enlighten me?

[John B.]

I've read Spicer's remarks about journalism and they're utter bullshit.
So are yours. I was a journalist for 16 years and a press secretary
for 10. I don't need to be lectured about it by the likes of him or you.

[John B.]

As I said, facts have no effect on you. Your assessment of Obama's
presidency is so ridiculous it's laughable.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 12:37:55 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 06:05:17 -0700 (PDT), "John B."
><john...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 1:53:12 AM UTC-4, Dene wrote:
><clip>
>>> Close mindedness is not a characteristic of intelligence.
>>
>>My revulsion to Trump is not closed-mindedness any more than your
>>your criticism of Obama is.
>
>Bingo!
>
>Both made promises. One is actually trying to fulfill them.

The promises he made were not able to fulfill. The wall isn't going
to be anything like his promise, if it is actually built at all. He
can't bring back the coal miner's jobs. He failed to have the
Republican Congress repeal or replace ACA. If you think that his
immigration project is worthwhile you're crazy. It will NOT have a
thing to do with terrorism. There are so many others that I won't
list them.

>The other sat on his skinny ass for six years and did NOTHING. You're both so biased that you can't see the distinction between 6 months and 6 years.

You don't see your stubborn biases. Donald Trump doesn't come close
to Barack Obama in any way politically. You've been given many of his
policies and actions that were good for the country and just won't
open your mind to them.

The word hatred is used by you a lot. What you say about Obama can be
construed as your hating him, but you'll deny that. Try to open your
mind to another outlook on both Presidents. I have and will be glad to
offer anything positive that I see. His pick for SCOTUS was the best
thing yet IMO. Not much else though.

[Dene]

I've read Spicer's remarks about journalism and they're utter bullshit.
So are yours. I was a journalist for 16 years and a press secretary
for 10. I don't need to be lectured about it by the likes of him or you.

It doesn't surprise me that you are blind to bias.

[Carbon]

You lecturing John about journalism is like immoderate lecturing you about health insurance.

[Dene]

You don't see your stubborn biases. Donald Trump doesn't come close
to Barack Obama in any way politically. You've been given many of his
policies and actions that were good for the country and just won't
open your mind to them.

My mind is open. Remember.... I'm the guy who thinks a hospital only single payer plan is the best solution.

The word hatred is used by you a lot. What you say about Obama can be
construed as your hating him, but you'll deny that. Try to open your
mind to another outlook on both Presidents. I have and will be glad to
offer anything positive that I see. His pick for SCOTUS was the best
thing yet IMO. Not much else though.

SCOTUS is the only thing you give Trump credit for. But it's fairere than Carbs or John's perspective.

I rooted for Obama because I'm an American first. He eventually earned my disapproval.

[Alan Baker]

Greg lecturing anyone about bias...

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-23 1:29 PM, Dene wrote:
>
> You don't see your stubborn biases. Donald Trump doesn't come close
> to Barack Obama in any way politically. You've been given many of his
> policies and actions that were good for the country and just won't
> open your mind to them.
>
> My mind is open. Remember.... I'm the guy who thinks a hospital only single payer plan is the best solution.

Your very first comment that I can find on the subject said it was a
"blessing" that:

"3. Obama will not have the $$ to pull off any outrageous socialistic
programs (e.g. single payer health insurance), assuming that truly is
part of his idealogy."

Your next comment was:

"Bottom line...the country does not want, nor need, single payer
universal health insurance."

>
> The word hatred is used by you a lot. What you say about Obama can be
> construed as your hating him, but you'll deny that. Try to open your
> mind to another outlook on both Presidents. I have and will be glad to
> offer anything positive that I see. His pick for SCOTUS was the best
> thing yet IMO. Not much else though.
>
> SCOTUS is the only thing you give Trump credit for. But it's fairere than Carbs or John's perspective.

An achievement that was stolen for him...

[Alan Baker]

Irony!

[-hh]

On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 3:37:56 PM UTC-4, Dene wrote:
>

> Both made promises. One is actually trying to fulfill them.

And received extensive partisan obstructionism - - it even
included a shutdown of the Government / Sequestration.

> .. You're both so biased that you can't see the distinction

> between 6 months and 6 years.

6 months? Wasn't it 100 Days?

After all, #45 has majorities in both the Senate and House,
and that was what the RSG "Give Him a Chance" fans had
agreed to - - so how is this not already a Goal Post Shift?


-hh

[Carbon]

On 07/23/2017 04:37 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2017-07-23 1:29 PM, Dene wrote:
>>
>> You don't see your stubborn biases. Donald Trump doesn't come close
>> to Barack Obama in any way politically. You've been given many of his
>> policies and actions that were good for the country and just won't
>> open your mind to them.
>>
>> My mind is open. Remember.... I'm the guy who thinks a hospital only single payer plan is the best solution.
>
> Your very first comment that I can find on the subject said it was a
> "blessing" that:
>
> "3. Obama will not have the $$ to pull off any outrageous socialistic
> programs (e.g. single payer health insurance), assuming that truly is
> part of his idealogy."
>
> Your next comment was:
>
> "Bottom line...the country does not want, nor need, single payer
> universal health insurance."

One of the reasons single payer is so much cheaper is there is way less bureaucracy clogging everything up. That would put people like Greg out of work though, so it is true that fixing this system would have negative impact on a lot of people.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 13:29:35 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

>

>You don't see your stubborn biases. Donald Trump doesn't come close
>to Barack Obama in any way politically. You've been given many of his
>policies and actions that were good for the country and just won't
>open your mind to them.
>
>My mind is open. Remember.... I'm the guy who thinks a hospital only single payer plan is the best solution.

Then you've done a 180.

>
>The word hatred is used by you a lot. What you say about Obama can be
>construed as your hating him, but you'll deny that. Try to open your
>mind to another outlook on both Presidents. I have and will be glad to
>offer anything positive that I see. His pick for SCOTUS was the best
>thing yet IMO. Not much else though.
>
>SCOTUS is the only thing you give Trump credit for. But it's fairere than Carbs or John's perspective.

So? I don't speak for them or vice versa.

>
>I rooted for Obama because I'm an American first. He eventually earned my disapproval.

That's a lot different than "sitting on his skinny ass doing nothing".
You're not open or you would see that he did some really good things.

[B...@onramp.net]

I believe that Greg's clientele for health care is not his base.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 16:16:08 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>"John B." <john...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

>>
>> My revulsion to Trump is not closed-mindedness any more than your
>> your criticism of Obama is.
>>
>

>Any criticism of Obama was called racist.
>Nice revisionist history.

Another of your idiotic non sequiturs.
John merely made a comparison and presidential history has nothing to
do with it.

[Dene]

One of the reasons single payer is so much cheaper is there is way less bureaucracy clogging everything up. That would put people like Greg out of work though, so it is true that fixing this system would have negative impact on a lot of people.

It would not put me out of work. There is always supplemental. My biggest problem with single payer is that the government doesn't know when to quit. There's always somebody whining about this and that...e.g. pay for my birth control, pay for my naturopath, etc. If the government would limit it to hospital only, it could work.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-23 2:16 PM, Moderate wrote:
> "John B." <john...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>>
>> My revulsion to Trump is not closed-mindedness any more than your
>> your criticism of Obama is.
>>
>
> Any criticism of Obama was called racist.

More bullshit.

>
> Nice revisionist history.
>

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 14:33:26 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

>One of the reasons single payer is so much cheaper is there is way less bureaucracy clogging everything up. That would put people like Greg out of work though, so it is true that fixing this system would have negative impact on a lot of people.
>
>It would not put me out of work. There is always supplemental. My biggest problem with single payer is that the government doesn't know when to quit. There's always somebody whining about this and that...e.g. pay for my birth control, pay for my naturopath, etc. If the government would limit it to hospital only, it could work.

Hospitals don't prevent illness, they thrive on it.

[Alan Baker]

One of the things that makes single payer systems work is that by
covering all medical care, they tend to help people stay out of the
hospital in the first place.

[Carbon]

On 07/23/2017 05:33 PM, Dene wrote:

>> One of the reasons single payer is so much cheaper is there is way less bureaucracy clogging everything up. That would put people like Greg out of work though, so it is true that fixing this system would have negative impact on a lot of people.
>
> It would not put me out of work. There is always supplemental. My biggest problem with single payer is that the government doesn't know when to quit. There's always somebody whining about this and that...e.g. pay for my birth control, pay for my naturopath, etc. If the government would limit it to hospital only, it could work.

I'm not sure that supplemental insurances is needed to any great extent in other single payer systems. I didn't even know it was a thing when I lived in Canada.

[Alan Baker]

Greg is now spinning his recent support for a system that basically
covers only catastrophic health events as support for a single payer
system in general.

[Carbon]

I actually knew a guy who died because of this. It turns out that he had cancer but his insurance lapsed during the Great Recession when he lost his job. By the time he started working at my place of work and got health insurance, the cancer had metastasized and he died just a few months later.

Ironically he was a racist, an alcoholic and a right-wing extremist, and he used to verbally attack people who disagreed with any of his views. He would have eventually gotten the ax if the cancer hadn't claimed him first.

He kept working as long as he was able, I guess to make sure he had insurance. But he avoided me, I think so he wouldn't have to hear some imagined "I told you so" from me. I have no doubt he would have gone there, but for me the guy was dying and it was way past the time for petty arguments.

Anyway, going to the doctor when you notice symptoms is always the better move, rather than waiting for the financial situation to improve. There is a reason that the average life expectancy is 2.4 years greater in Canada than the US.

The Canadian healthcare system is not perfect, but it is better and less corrupt than the US one. Unlike you true believers, I have experience with both.

[John B.]

And sometimes they cause it. A friend of mine got a liver transplant
and got sepsis while in recovery. The sepsis killed him.

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

I actually knew a guy who died because of this. It turns out that he had cancer but his insurance lapsed during the Great Recession when he lost his job. By the time he started working at my place of work and got health insurance, the cancer had metastasized and he died just a few months later.

Ironically he was a racist, an alcoholic and a right-wing extremist, and he used to verbally attack people who disagreed with any of his views. He would have eventually gotten the ax if the cancer hadn't claimed him first.

He kept working as long as he was able, I guess to make sure he had insurance. But he avoided me, I think so he wouldn't have to hear some imagined "I told you so" from me. I have no doubt he would have gone there, but for me the guy was dying and it was way past the time for petty arguments.

Anyway, going to the doctor when you notice symptoms is always the better move, rather than waiting for the financial situation to improve. There is a reason that the average life expectancy is 2.4 years greater in Canada than the US.

The Canadian healthcare system is not perfect, but it is better and less corrupt than the US one. Unlike you true believers, I have experience with both.

You have 30 million in your country of origin. We have 330 million. Our federal government doesn't even manage the majority of her Medicare claims an can barely run a web site.

Preventative helps but ultimately it's an individual decision. Sometimes the good die young. Life ain't fair.