Trump has a problem: Americans increasingly think he's incompetent

[Carbon]

"Donald Trump has already set a record for being the most unpopular new
president since the invention of telephone polling. But I don't think job
approval is the poll number Trump should be most worried about.

If I were him, I'd be worrying about the question the Quinnipiac
University poll was asking about my leadership skills.

In a new Quinnipiac survey, out on Wednesday, only 42% of voters said they
think Trump is a good leader, and 55% said he's not.

Trump's big thing is supposed to be leadership — he's the business guy, he
hires the best people, and he knows how to shake things up in Washington
and make America great again. Right?

In November, shortly after the election, 56% of respondents told
Quinnipiac they thought Trump was a good leader, and only 38% said he
wasn't. That's not too shabby for a guy who didn't even get the most
votes.

But as Trump started actually doing stuff — running a transition, hiring
people, issuing half-baked executive orders, firing his national security
adviser after less than a month — the share of Americans willing to call
him a good leader has steadily declined.

From 56% in November, it went to 49% in January, 47% earlier this month —
and now 42%, or about 4 points less than his share of the popular vote.

In polling, you often analyze a question by measuring the difference
between the share of respondents that gives the positive answer and the
share that gives the negative one. By this measure, Trump was at plus-18
on the "good leader" question in November, and now he's at minus-13, a
decline of 31 points in three months.

His term lasts another 47 months."

https://goo.gl/54Kn3K

[Dene]

I suppose President Obama was a good leader, despite the fact that the Democrats lost ground in every election since 2010.

Keep leading Mr. Obama. "I must go now, for there they go, and I am their leader."

[Carbon]

This is a Mike-esque goalpost move. Trump's obvious incompetence has
nothing to do with Obama or any other president.

[John B.]

Yes, Obama was a good leader and it's simplistic and facile to
suggest that electoral losses during his presidency were his
fault. Why don't you address what Carbon posted instead of
dissing Obama?

[John B.]

It has everything to do with his 38% approval rating. No
other president has sunk that low that early in his
administration.

[MNMikeW]

John B. wrote:

>>
>> I suppose President Obama was a good leader, despite the fact that the Democrats lost ground in every election since 2010.
>>
>> Keep leading Mr. Obama. "I must go now, for there they go, and I am their leader."
>
> Yes, Obama was a good leader and it's simplistic and facile to
> suggest that electoral losses during his presidency were his
> fault. Why don't you address what Carbon posted instead of
> dissing Obama?

So, what do you suppose caused those losses? Of course, you WILL be
blaming Trump for losses under his presidency.

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

This is a Mike-esque goalpost move. Trump's obvious incompetence has
nothing to do with Obama or any other president.

No goalpost move intended. I'm simply pointing out that I would take Trump's action orientated leadership over the Open prettiest speeches any day.

It's 30 days. Give him more time. The leftist finally allowed his cabinet post to take office.

[Dene]

Good question. Doubt if any Democrat will ever accept responsibility for their own incompetence and losing touch with America.

[Bob...@onramp.net]

Generally the POTUS shouldn't bear the responsibility for all
positives or negatives during his term in office. I can only point
out that the present person in that position hasn't been a normal
president. He's not been reasonable in his actions as yet. Maybe
he'll settle into real policies soon. I want him to get serious
about some of his "secret" policies so he'll be thwarted by a
reasonable Congress and found by a larger majority to be
feckless...and we can see him ousted. Unfortunately his veep won't be
much better.

[Bob...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 09:35:23 -0800 (PST), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

The more time he has the more idiotic he'll be. The only really good
thing done yet is nominating his choice for the Supreme Court.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-02-23 9:35 AM, Dene wrote:
>
> - show quoted text - This is a Mike-esque goalpost move. Trump's
> obvious incompetence has nothing to do with Obama or any other
> president.
>
> No goalpost move intended. I'm simply pointing out that I would take
> Trump's action orientated leadership over the Open prettiest
> speeches any day.

What "action"?

>
> It's 30 days. Give him more time. The leftist finally allowed his
> cabinet post to take office.

Obama's cabinet took longer.

[Bob...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 09:36:35 -0800 (PST), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

LOL.

[Alan Baker]

LOL!

[recscub...@huntzinger.com]

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 12:49:43 PM UTC-5, Bob...@onramp.net wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 09:36:35 -0800 (PST), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
> >

> > Good question. Doubt if any Democrat will ever accept
> > responsibility for their own incompetence and losing touch
> > with America.
>
> LOL.

Irony in action:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgi1t_j5_Bs>


-hh

[Alan Baker]

And this:

<http://www.snopes.com/family-photograph-of-melania-barron-and-donald-trump/>

That man is obviously SO in touch with America!

:-)

[John B.]

A lot of things caused them. Disdain for Obama was certainly
one of them.

[John B.]

Here we go with the "leftists" shit again. Is there anything for
which you don't blame them?

[Alan Baker]

You have a problem. With reality.

[John B.]

Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth, a 2/3 reduction
in the budget deficit, eight years of peace, and restored
respect around the world. Your constant denigration of him is
nothing short of delusional.

[MNMikeW]

John B. wrote:

>
> Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
> full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth, a 2/3 reduction
> in the budget deficit, eight years of peace, and restored
> respect around the world. Your constant denigration of him is
> nothing short of delusional.

Peace? Respect around the world? You are fucking delusional.

[MNMikeW]

Disdain for his policies, yes.

[michae...@gmail.com]

No. Its a joke. He's joking. Or playing with you.

[Alan Baker]

I notice you didn't address the most easily fact-checked parts of his
post...

Weird, huh?

[Alan Baker]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

[Bob...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 10:28:47 -0800 (PST), "John B."
<john...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 12:36:36 PM UTC-5, Dene wrote:
>> John B. wrote:

<clip>

Doubt if any Democrat will ever accept responsibility for their own
incompetence and losing touch with America.
>
>Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
>full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth, a 2/3 reduction
>in the budget deficit, eight years of peace, and restored
>respect around the world. Your constant denigration of him is
>nothing short of delusional.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/02/17/Historians-rank-Obama-at-No-12-in-survey-of-greatest-US-presidents/7821487369055/

[Moderate]

"John B." <john...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

Talk about delusional.

The economy was growing when he took office.

The First President since Hoover who never broke 3% annual growth.

He was at war every day of of his Presidency.

Record number of workers left the work force.

Increased the debt 68 %.

There is no indication he restored respect. His foreign policy was
a disaster.


--

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-02-23 11:21 AM, Moderate wrote:
> "John B." <john...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>> On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 12:36:36 PM UTC-5, Dene wrote:
>>> John B. wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose President Obama was a good leader, despite the fact that the Democrats lost ground in every election since 2010.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keep leading Mr. Obama. "I must go now, for there they go, and I am their leader."
>>>>
>>>> Yes, Obama was a good leader and it's simplistic and facile to
>>>> suggest that electoral losses during his presidency were his
>>>> fault. Why don't you address what Carbon posted instead of
>>>> dissing Obama?
>>>
>>> So, what do you suppose caused those losses? Of course, you WILL be
>>> blaming Trump for losses under his presidency.
>>>
>>> Good question. Doubt if any Democrat will ever accept responsibility for their own incompetence and losing touch with America.
>>
>> Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
>> full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth, a 2/3 reduction
>> in the budget deficit, eight years of peace, and restored
>> respect around the world. Your constant denigration of him is
>> nothing short of delusional.
>>
>
> Talk about delusional.
>
> The economy was growing when he took office.

Cite...

>
> The First President since Hoover who never broke 3% annual growth.

Cite...

>
> He was at war every day of of his Presidency.

No. He wasn't.

>
> Record number of workers left the work force.
>
> Increased the debt 68 %.

So, pretty much like every other administration...

[John B.]

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 1:37:23 PM UTC-5, MNMikeW wrote:

Yes, peace. And yes, the respect and admiration of world leaders,
except Netanyahu, who is a radical Zionist. GW Bush didn't
have that and Trump is pissing it all away. The only ones who
like him are Putin, Kim Jong-un and Robert Mugabe, thugs one
and all.

[John B.]

Disdain for him personally.

[John B.]

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? GDP contracted
in the last month of Bush and the first month of Obama. It
grew every month since except for one.

He was the first president since FDR to take office during a
severe global recession. US GDP growth has been higher here
than in any other developed country since then.

Record numbers of people left the workforce because they
were baby-boomers who were retiring.

There is every indication that he won the respect and admiration
of world leaders and citizens. You just refuse to see it.

[michae...@gmail.com]

You sound quite demented, Shithead.

Are you abusing drugs and alcohol?

Sure sounds like it.

[michae...@gmail.com]

You seem great at fooling yourself, Shithead.

[michae...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 1:37:23 PM UTC-5, MNMikeW wrote:

Upon reflection, yes, he's a delusional Shithead.

[recscub...@huntzinger.com]

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 2:56:08 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:

And even then, the growth was such that the first quarter
of Obama's first term still resulted in a net negative:

<http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/us-economic-growth-soars-reaches-11-year-high>

<http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-us-vs-uk-growth-2012-4>

...although I'd really give the most amount of the credit
to then Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke for recognizing
the issue, raising the alarm in 2008 and having the right plan.

> Record numbers of people left the workforce because they
> were baby-boomers who were retiring.

The population is also at a record high.

> There is every indication that he won the respect and admiration
> of world leaders and citizens. You just refuse to see it.

YA example of why I've pointedly asked RSG posters if they've
ever been OCONUS to have seen what its really like with their
own eyes, as opposed to drinking the propaganda Kool-Aid.

The response was "Well, I've been to Maine - does that count?" /S


-hh

[Dene]

You have a better name designation for Schwarmy and his bunch?

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth, a 2/3 reduction
in the budget deficit, eight years of peace, and restored
respect around the world. Your constant denigration of him is
nothing short of delusional.

I sure would like to see how the budget deficit was decreased. Last time the treasury had a positive cash flow was with Clinton.

Also explain why more people are on subsidies than ever before? Also why is the median income has not risen? How do I have to explain 25% rate increases to my health insurance clients or that they have one HMO plan to choose from in Arizona.....home of the 115% rate increase. Sure you can see your own doctor, if he is in network. If not, SOL.

But..but..but...The president promised.

Yeah the last eight years. Good times....if you're gay or need a handout.

-Greg

[Dene]

11:38 AMMNMikeW

- show quoted text -

Disdain for his policies, yes.

Careful Mike. Disdain for anything Obama means you are a racist.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-02-23 7:08 PM, Dene wrote:
> - show quoted text - Obama's incompetence kept us out of a
> depression, gave us almost full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP
> growth, a 2/3 reduction in the budget deficit, eight years of peace,
> and restored respect around the world. Your constant denigration of
> him is nothing short of delusional.
>
> I sure would like to see how the budget deficit was decreased. Last
> time the treasury had a positive cash flow was with Clinton.

Indeed. Not with either Bush, nor with Reagan...

>
> Also explain why more people are on subsidies than ever before? Also
> why is the median income has not risen? How do I have to explain 25%
> rate increases to my health insurance clients or that they have one
> HMO plan to choose from in Arizona.....home of the 115% rate
> increase. Sure you can see your own doctor, if he is in network. If
> not, SOL.

The median income has risen.

As for subsidies:

'Governments have made it easier to sign up for the program. More than
85 percent of eligible food-stamp recipients took assistance in 2013,
the most recent year of available data, compared to 70 percent in 2008.
The higher sign-up rate among those qualified accounts for 8.6 million
more people on food stamps -- about half of the program’s total increase.'

<https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/food-stamps-still-feed-one-in-seven-americans-despite-recovery>

>
> But..but..but...The president promised.
>
> Yeah the last eight years. Good times....if you're gay or need a
> handout.

Or aren't being completely dishonest...

[Alan Baker]

I just love the way you snip out that which would make you look bad...

[Carbon]

On 02/23/2017 10:01 PM, Dene wrote:

> You have a better name designation for Schwarmy and his bunch?

If you've been reduced to playground taunts, you're losing.

[Bob...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:08:05 -0800 (PST), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

>nothing short of delusional.
>
>I sure would like to see how the budget deficit was decreased. Last time the treasury had a positive cash flow was with Clinton.
>
>Also explain why more people are on subsidies than ever before? Also why is the median income has not risen? How do I have to explain 25% rate increases to my health insurance clients or that they have one HMO plan to choose from in Arizona.....home of the 115% rate increase. Sure you can see your own doctor, if he is in network. If not, SOL.
>
>But..but..but...The president promised.

You're going to be pissed when ACA isn't repealed, but slightly
changed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-speaker-boehner-obamacare-repeal-replace-won-t-happen-n724866

>Yeah the last eight years. Good times....if you're gay or need a handout.
>

>-Greg

They were GREAT years and good times, and I'm straight and definitely
didn't need a handout.

[recscub...@huntzinger.com]

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 10:08:06 PM UTC-5, Dene wrote:
> - show quoted text -
> Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
> full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth, a 2/3 reduction
> in the budget deficit, eight years of peace, and restored
> respect around the world. Your constant denigration of him is
> nothing short of delusional.
>
> I sure would like to see how the budget deficit was decreased. Last
> time the treasury had a positive cash flow was with Clinton.

Yeah, Bush Jr really fucked that up, didn't he. Oh wait ...we're trying
to blame Obama, aren't we?

Well, sure, there was that huge uptick from the Stimulus ... oh, wait,
that was _also_ from from trying to undo the stock market bubble mess
that was enabled by Bush Jr. And preventing future ones has been
addressed by restoring market regulations via Dodd-Frank - - better
hope that no one is proposing getting rid of that, right?

> Also explain why more people are on subsidies than ever before?

Besides how there's now more people?

And would that be with or without the wage suppression which has
come about from systematic Union-busting policies (camouflaged
under the name of 'right to work') passed in many Blue States?

> Also why is the median income has not risen?

Don't you mean "has not risen as fast as the Top 1%?"

> How do I have to explain 25% rate increases to my health insurance

> clients ...

That's 25% over eight years, right? And for the eight years prior
to that (yes, under Bush Jr again), it was roughly double that rate, right?

> ... or that they have one HMO plan to choose from in Arizona.....home

> of the 115% rate increase.

Because it isn't a single payer system - - gosh, it was the Republicans
who were so vigorously opposed to that.

If I recall correctly, the Republicans' rationale was along the lines that
private corporations could provide such services better ('more efficiently'),
but do you see what's missing from that? Yup, they're deliberately ignoring
that private corporations are motivate by profits and when said profits aren't
fat enough, they can do things like choose to abandon their less profitable
business ventures.

Plus hasn't it also come to light that some of these withdrawals by
some providers directly the consequence of a "take my ball and go home"
threat which they made to industry regulators if their profit-driven merger
proposal was denied? That's YA "profits first" example.

And if you think this is bad, the push is underway for the privatization
of even more government services ... the current Administration took
steps this week to undo the reduction in private prisons (incarceration),
plus we all know that with Betsy DeVos, the intention with the Dept of
Education is to have private corporations usurp the public school system.
The future is that the cost of public K-12 education will go through the roof.

> Sure you can see your own doctor, if he is in network. If not, SOL.

Once again, the local MD is a private business enterprise who isn't
legally obligated to take on the less profitable business from healthcare
company B versus A.

As I've mentioned before, a neighbor is one of those MD's and for years
they've been telling us about just how utterly corrupt the private healthcare
systems are in their disingenuous invoicing systems. As soon as one does
a "Follow The Money" exercise, their actions are quite transparent: in a
nutshell, the patient isn't their customer: their stockholders are.


> But..but..but...The president promised.

Oh, don't worry: I"ll make it a point at 100 Days to repost Bjorn's
list of promises from Trump and you can tell us how well he's done.

BTW, I've not noticed _anything_ regarding jobs for the Middle Class
lately, have you?

Similarly, the current lack of progress on healthcare (e.g. an actually
tangible replacement for ACA which is detailed enough to undergo
statistical/actuarial analysis) is going to manifest itself with even more
market turmoil by around May 1st. In plain english, if you think this
year's rate changes were bad, next year's are going to be worse
because of the Market Uncertainty Risk being caused by the Republicans
by their "promises" of mandating major changes but having no details.

> Yeah the last eight years. Good times....if you're gay or need a handout.

YMMV, but I'm better off today than eight years ago.

Sure, I would have liked it to have been more, but the problem remains
with the Top 1% raping all of us. And I know it is the Top 1%, not some
poor Mexican illegal immigrant, who is to blame.

For example, our healthcare costs have continued to increase YoY, but I also
can recall that their annual cost growth rates before ACA were roughly
twice as big. Having a cost growth totally reverse would obviously be
the best, but having slow down is far better than no slowing at all.

Similarly, my one retirement portfolio (the one easiest to track because
its annual summary reports have been easiest to download) tanked by
-44% thanks to Bush's bubble, but is now +160% from that low.

Been running some numbers recently and we're doing much better than
what our retirement plans had been like a decade ago ... and instead
of going to 65, the Mrs wants us to retire while we're both still in our 50's,
but from a fiscal conservatism standpoint, I can't trust this Administration:
my big fiscal concern is that he's going to deliberately crash the bus and
deflate the value of the US Dollar by a good 50%, which suggests that the
prudent course of action is to wait him out as a risk reduction move and
not retire until after he's gone and we've financially recovered from the
damage he's caused.

And if I'm totally wrong, the downside is merely that the "frivolous squandering"
portion of the retirement budget is able to grow...more exotic/golf vacations,
family college aid, a Porsche for carrying the grocery shopping at home, etc.


-hh

[michae...@gmail.com]

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 7:23:21 AM UTC-5, recscub...@huntzinger.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 10:08:06 PM UTC-5, Dene wrote:
> > - show quoted text -
> > Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
> > full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth, a 2/3 reduction
> > in the budget deficit, eight years of peace, and restored
> > respect around the world. Your constant denigration of him is
> > nothing short of delusional.
> >
> > I sure would like to see how the budget deficit was decreased. Last
> > time the treasury had a positive cash flow was with Clinton.
>
> Yeah, Bush Jr really fucked that up, didn't he. Oh wait ...we're trying
> to blame Obama, aren't we?

Ummmmm, Asshole, Obama doubled the deficit. Were you living on a different planet when it happened?

>
> Well, sure, there was that huge uptick from the Stimulus ... oh, wait,
> that was _also_ from from trying to undo the stock market bubble mess
> that was enabled by Bush Jr. And preventing future ones has been
> addressed by restoring market regulations via Dodd-Frank - - better
> hope that no one is proposing getting rid of that, right?
>
> > Also explain why more people are on subsidies than ever before?
>
> Besides how there's now more people?

Sidestep noted.

>
> And would that be with or without the wage suppression which has
> come about from systematic Union-busting policies (camouflaged
> under the name of 'right to work') passed in many Blue States?
>
> > Also why is the median income has not risen?
>
> Don't you mean "has not risen as fast as the Top 1%?"

Sidestep noted. Look up "median".

>
> > How do I have to explain 25% rate increases to my health insurance
> > clients ...
>
> That's 25% over eight years, right? And for the eight years prior
> to that (yes, under Bush Jr again), it was roughly double that rate, right?

Ummm, Asshole, 25% in the first year. Some people 50% in the first year, and, deductibles jumped up also.

Are you just stoopid, or a lying POS?

Probably both.

> > ... or that they have one HMO plan to choose from in Arizona.....home
> > of the 115% rate increase.
>
> Because it isn't a single payer system - - gosh, it was the Republicans
> who were so vigorously opposed to that.

Gosh, got a better idea rather than Bloviation?

Ummmmm, Asshole, did you know "poor illegals" cost US 135 BILLION a year?

No? Of course you didn't. All you do is spout hot air.

>
> For example, our healthcare costs have continued to increase YoY, but I also
> can recall that their annual cost growth rates before ACA were roughly
> twice as big. Having a cost growth totally reverse would obviously be
> the best, but having slow down is far better than no slowing at all.
>
> Similarly, my one retirement portfolio (the one easiest to track because
> its annual summary reports have been easiest to download) tanked by
> -44% thanks to Bush's bubble, but is now +160% from that low.
>
> Been running some numbers recently and we're doing much better than
> what our retirement plans had been like a decade ago ... and instead
> of going to 65, the Mrs wants us to retire while we're both still in our >50's,
> but from a fiscal conservatism standpoint, I can't trust this Administration:
> my big fiscal concern is that he's going to deliberately crash the bus and
> deflate the value of the US Dollar by a good 50%, which suggests that the
> prudent course of action is to wait him out as a risk reduction move and
> not retire until after he's gone and we've financially recovered from the
> damage he's caused.

You stupid fuck, how do you think the $20 TRILLION that was left behind is going to be resolved?

Are you going to blame Trump for that also?

>
> And if I'm totally wrong, the downside is merely that the "frivolous squandering"
> portion of the retirement budget is able to grow...more exotic/golf vacations,
> family college aid, a Porsche for carrying the grocery shopping at home, etc.
>
>
> -hh

If you can't win an argument, bury them in Bullshit.

You really should STFU. In that way you won't look quite as stooped as you really are.

[Dene]

Fighting fire with fire. You persist with insults about POTUS. I reply with the same nastiness.

-Greg

[Dene]

On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 7:25:13 PM UTC-8, Bob...@onramp.net wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:08:05 -0800 (PST), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> >nothing short of delusional.
> >
> >I sure would like to see how the budget deficit was decreased. Last time the treasury had a positive cash flow was with Clinton.
> >
> >Also explain why more people are on subsidies than ever before? Also why is the median income has not risen? How do I have to explain 25% rate increases to my health insurance clients or that they have one HMO plan to choose from in Arizona.....home of the 115% rate increase. Sure you can see your own doctor, if he is in network. If not, SOL.
> >
> >But..but..but...The president promised.
>
> You're going to be pissed when ACA isn't repealed, but slightly
> changed.
>
> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-speaker-boehner-obamacare-repeal-replace-won-t-happen-n724866

Hardly. I've always maintained there is more good with ACA than bad.

>
> >Yeah the last eight years. Good times....if you're gay or need a handout.
> >
>
> >-Greg
>
> They were GREAT years and good times, and I'm straight and definitely
> didn't need a handout.

Welcome to the minority.

-Greg

[Bob...@onramp.net]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:32:26 -0800 (PST), Dene <gds...@aol.com>

Wrong Greg. I don't know anyone that isn't better off than they were
in '08 and bet that you don't either.

[Alan Baker]

My bet: your reply will now make you "tedious"...

:-)

[recscub...@huntzinger.com]

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 10:49:40 AM UTC-5, michae...@gmail.com wrote:

> -hh wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 10:08:06 PM UTC-5, Dene wrote:
> > > - show quoted text -
> > > Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
> > > full employment as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth, a 2/3 reduction
> > > in the budget deficit, eight years of peace, and restored
> > > respect around the world. Your constant denigration of him is
> > > nothing short of delusional.
> > >
> > > I sure would like to see how the budget deficit was decreased. Last
> > > time the treasury had a positive cash flow was with Clinton.
> >
> > Yeah, Bush Jr really fucked that up, didn't he. Oh wait ...we're
> > trying to blame Obama, aren't we?
>
>
> Ummmmm, Asshole, Obama doubled the deficit. Were you living on a
> different planet when it happened?

Better actually check your numbers cupcake, because while there
was the stimulus package which did help neutralize the Great
Recession, that spending package was authorized in 2008, which
was before Obama took office. You can see it in the third
chart listed here:

<https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/01/07/the-story-behind-obama-and-the-national-debt-in-7-charts/>

BTW, do keep in mind that the Federal Government's fiscal year
starts on Oct 1st of the prior year. For example, the dates
for 1QFY09 was 1 Oct 2008 to 31 Dec 2008 and similarly, 2QFY09
was from 1 Jan 2009 (still before the inauguration) to 31 March 2009
(where $1T was deficit-spent in just two quarters).

> > Well, sure, there was that huge uptick from the Stimulus ... oh, wait,
> > that was _also_ from from trying to undo the stock market bubble mess
> > that was enabled by Bush Jr. And preventing future ones has been
> > addressed by restoring market regulations via Dodd-Frank - - better
> > hope that no one is proposing getting rid of that, right?
> >
> > > Also explain why more people are on subsidies than ever before?
> >
> > Besides how there's now more people?
>
> Sidestep noted.

But still a fact: the USA now has 25 million more people today
than it did in 2007. As such, this "more" claim is statistically
useless because it fails to inform us on if the percentage of
the population in need has gone up or down.

> > And would that be with or without the wage suppression which has
> > come about from systematic Union-busting policies (camouflaged
> > under the name of 'right to work') passed in many Blue States?
> >
> > > Also why is the median income has not risen?
> >
> > Don't you mean "has not risen as fast as the Top 1%?"
>
> Sidestep noted. Look up "median".

Irrelevant, for the median income *has* risen, but that
still doesn't mean that that demographic segment has benefitted
unless it has outpaced normal inflation - - and if it has
failed to rise as fast as the income gains of the rich, then
we also know that Income inequality has become worse, which
has ramifications on the societal ills that it is known to invoke.

> > > How do I have to explain 25% rate increases to my
> > > health insurance clients ...
> >
> > That's 25% over eight years, right? And for the eight years prior
> > to that (yes, under Bush Jr again), it was roughly double that rate, right?
>
>
> Ummm, Asshole, 25% in the first year. Some people 50% in
> the first year, and, deductibles jumped up also.

Some perhaps have, but I've not seen any +25% YoY it in my
personal healthcare insurance cost data within the past decade.

Plus one also needs to also take into account that one of
the other things that people scream about with ACA is that
it established minimums which abolished a bunch of really
crappy minimal coverage products...many of which were rip-offs
which were exploiting the lower/middle class and poor.

> > > ... or that they have one HMO plan to choose from in
> > > Arizona.....home of the 115% rate increase.
> >
> > Because it isn't a single payer system - - gosh, it was
> > the Republicans who were so vigorously opposed to that.
>
>
> Gosh, got a better idea rather than Bloviation?

Yup:

Better first fact-check those numbers, as well as to
sort out their externalities. Here's a start:

<http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers>

First, this estimate's $113B .. 17% lower than your uncited claim.

Second, note that only 25% ($29B) is at the Federal level; the
rest is State/Local incurred and of which more than half is
paid by "Blue" states. For example, just CA & NY alone are
cited above as paying $21.8B & $9.5B which is 37% of the total
of this tab.

Third, note just how much of the Fed's tab is being spent on
Law Enforcement to try to keep illegals out: its at least 27%
of the Fed's expenses ($7.8M of $28.6M, and a minimum because
there's +$8.2M in 'General Expenditures'): just like the
futile 'War on Drugs', our LEO & Incarceration industries
are an analog to the Military-Industrial Complex that John
Eisenhower warned us about.

> > For example, our healthcare costs have continued to
> > increase YoY, but I also can recall that their annual
> > cost growth rates before ACA were roughly twice as big.
> > Having a cost growth totally reverse would obviously be
> > the best, but having slow down is far better than no
> > slowing at all.
> >
> > Similarly, my one retirement portfolio (the one easiest
> > to track because its annual summary reports have been
> > easiest to download) tanked by -44% thanks to Bush's
> > bubble, but is now +160% from that low.
> >
> > Been running some numbers recently and we're doing much
> > better than what our retirement plans had been like a
> > decade ago ... and instead of going to 65, the Mrs wants
> > us to retire while we're both still in our 50's, but
> > from a fiscal conservatism standpoint, I can't trust
> > this Administration: my big fiscal concern is that he's
> > going to deliberately crash the bus and deflate the
> > value of the US Dollar by a good 50%, which suggests that
> > the prudent course of action is to wait him out as a
> > risk reduction move and not retire until after he's gone
> > and we've financially recovered from the damage he's caused.
>
>
> You stupid fuck, how do you think the $20 TRILLION that
> was left behind is going to be resolved?

First, see the 5th Chart: 'Debt as Percentage of GDP'
and try to comprehend that routine inflation and economic
growth makes existing debt levels less dire.

Second, just why do you think I specifically pointed out
the risk that Trump might deliberately deflate US currency?

> Are you going to blame Trump for that also?

If he puts us through a phase of hyperinflation and/or
otherwise materially devalues the US dollar...HELL YES.

> > And if I'm totally wrong, the downside is merely
> > that the "frivolous squandering" portion of the
> > retirement budget is able to grow...more exotic/golf
> > vacations, family college aid, a Porsche for carrying
> > the grocery shopping at home, etc.
>

> If you can't win an argument, bury them in Bullshit.
>
> You really should STFU. In that way you won't look quite
> as stooped as you really are.

Oh, poor little cupcake! I'm so sorry to have reminded
you that your current daily driver is still that old piss
yellow Toyota Corolla beater. /S


-hh

[Alan Baker]

What "insult" did Carbon make, Greg?

Quote it.

[David Laville]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 12:13:53 -0600, Bob...@Onramp.net wrote:

>>> They were GREAT years and good times, and I'm straight and definitely
>>> didn't need a handout.
>>
>>Welcome to the minority.
>>
>>-Greg
>
>Wrong Greg. I don't know anyone that isn't better off than they were
>in '08 and bet that you don't either.

Let's just see, shall we?

Under Obama:

Labor force participation rate for black Americans across the board
slipped from 63.2 percent to 61.7 percent.

The percentage of black Americans struggling below the poverty line
advanced from 25.8 percent to 26.2 percent.

Real median income among black households sank from $35,954 to
$35,398.

The number of black food-stamp participants exploded from 7,393,000 to
11,699,000, the U.S. Department of Agriculture reports — up 58.2
percent.

From January 2009 through the fourth quarter of 2015, the percentage
of black Americans who owned homes foundered from 46.1 percent to 41.9
percent — down 9.1 percent.

These black American's are better off then they were in 2008, aren't
they?

[David Laville]

On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 10:28:47 -0800 (PST), "John B."
<john...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Obama's incompetence kept us out of a depression, gave us almost
>full employment

Which we have shown the numbers were bullshit but you don't let facts
get in your way.

>as well as 8 yrs. of GDP growth

The highest GDP growth Obama had was 2.6%, he was the only president
to not break a 3% GDP growth since Hoover.

> a 2/3 reduction in the budget deficit,

More bullshit. The national debt has increased 80% under Obama. You
don't get a 80% increase in debt from a 66% reduction is spending,

>eight years of peace,

Little Rock, Arkansas, June 1, 2009. Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad shot
and murdered one soldier, Army Pvt. William Andrew Long, and injured
another, Pvt. Quinton Ezeagwula, at a military recruiting station in
Little Rock. Muhammad reportedly converted to Islam in college and was
on the FBI's radar after being arrested in Yemen–a hotbed of radical
Islamic terrorism–for using a Somali passport, even though he was a
U.S. citizen. In a note to an Arkansas judge, Muhammad claimed to be a
member of al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula, the terror group's Yemen
chapter.

Fort Hood, Texas, November 5, 2009. Major Nidal Malik Hasan shot up a
military base in Fort Hood and murdered 14 people. Hasan was in
contact with al-Qaeda terrorist Anwar al-Awlaki prior to the attack
and shouted "Allahu Akbar!" as he fired upon the soldiers on the Fort
Hood base. After being sentenced to death, Hasan requested to join
ISIS while on death row. It took six years for Obama to acknowledge
the shooting as a terror attack instead of "workplace violence."

Boston, Massachusetts, April 15, 2013. Tamerlan and Dhozkar Tsarnaev
set off two bombs at the 2013 Boston marathon, killing three and
injuring over 260 people. The Tsarnaev brothers later shot and
murdered Massachusetts Institute of Technology police officer Sean
Collier. The Tsarnaev brothers were self-radicalized through online
jihadist propaganda and through a mosque with ties to al-Qaeda.

Moore, Oklahoma, September 24, 2014. Alton Nolen beheaded a woman,
Colleen Huff, at a Vaughan Foods plant and stabbed and injured another
person. While Nolen's motives are unclear, he appears to have been
another radicalized Muslim who was obsessed with beheadings.

Queens, New York, October 23, 2014. Zale Thompson, another
self-radicalized Muslim, injured two police officers with a hatchet
before being shot dead by other cops. Thompson reportedly
indoctrinated himself with ISIS, al-Qaeda and al-Shabab–a Somali
jihadist terror group–websites and was a lone wolf attacker.

Brooklyn, New York, December 20, 2014. Ismaayil Brinsley shot and
murdered two police officers execution-style and his Facebook page
featured jihadist postings and had ties to a terror-linked mosque.

Garland, Texas, May 3, 2015. Two gunmen shot up the Curtis Culwell
Center in Garland, where a Mohammed cartoon contest was taking place,
and were killed by a police officer. ISIS claimed responsibility for
the attack.

Chattanooga, Tennessee, July 16, 2015. Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez
shot and killed four Marines and a sailor at a military base in
Chattanooga and was believed to have been inspired by ISIS.

San Bernardino, California, December 14, 2015. Two radical Islamists,
Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik, shot and murdered 14 people and
injured 22 others at an office holiday party.

Orlando, Florida, June 12, 2016. Omar Mateen, 29, opened fire at a gay
nightclub, killing 49 and injuring 53. The FBI investigated Mateen
twice before his rampage, but did not take any substantive action.
Officials believe Mateen was self-radicalized but he pledged fealty to
ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi before his death. "The real muslims
will never accept the filthy ways of the west," Mateen posted on his
Facebook page after committing his heinous act at Pulse nightclub. "I
pledge my alliance to (ISIS leader) abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah
accept me," he wrote.

St. Cloud, Minnesota, September 17, 2016. Dahir Ahmed Adan, a
20-year-old Somali refugee, began hacking at people with a steak knife
at a Minnesota mall, injuring nine people before he was shot dead by
off-duty police officer Jason Falconer. The FBI said numerous
witnesses heard Adan yelling "Allahu akbar!" and "Islam! Islam!"
during the rampage. He also asked potential victims if they were
Muslims before inflicting wounds in their heads, necks, and chests.
The FBI believe he had recently become self-radicalized. (As the Daily
Wire highlighted, the Minneapolis Star Tribune attempted to blame
"anti-Muslim tensions" for his murderous actions.)

New York City/New Jersey, September 17, 2016. Ahmad Khan Rahami, a
28-year-old naturalized citizen from Afghanistan, set off multiple
bombs in New York and New Jersey. In Chelsea, his bomb resulted in the
injury of over 30 people. Rahami wrote in his journal that he was
connected to "terrorist leaders," and appears to have been heavily
influenced by Sheikh Anwar, Anwar al-Awlaki, Nidal Hassan, and Osama
bin Laden. "I pray to the beautiful wise ALLAH, [d]o not take JIHAD
away from me," Rahami wrote. "You [USA Government] continue your
[unintelligible] slaught[er]" against the holy warriors, "be it
Afghanistan, Iraq, Sham [Syria], Palestine ... "

Columbus, Ohio, November 28, 2016. Abdul Razak Ali Artan, an
ISIS-inspired 20-year-old Somali refugee who had been granted
permanent legal residence in 2014 after living in Pakistan for 7
years, attempted to run over his fellow Ohio State students on campus.
After his car was stopped by a barrier, he got out of the vehicle and
began hacking at people with a butcher knife before being shot dead by
a campus police officer. He injured 11 people, one critically. ISIS
took credit for the attack, describing Artan as their "soldier." Just
three minutes before his rampage, Artan posted a warning to America on
Facebook that the "lone wolf attacks" will continue until America
"give[s] peace to the Muslims." He also praised deceased al-Qaeda
cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki as a "hero."

>and restored respect around the world.

>Your constant denigration of him is
>nothing short of delusional.

You're constant posting of bullshit about him is nothing short of
delusional.

[Bob...@onramp.net]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 15:51:21 -0600, David Laville
<dlav...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 12:13:53 -0600, Bob...@Onramp.net wrote:
>
>>>> They were GREAT years and good times, and I'm straight and definitely
>>>> didn't need a handout.
>>>
>>>Welcome to the minority.
>>>
>>>-Greg
>>
>>Wrong Greg. I don't know anyone that isn't better off than they were
>>in '08 and bet that you don't either.
>
>Let's just see, shall we?

You don't see shit! The following has nothing to do with the question
I was asked and my answer. I don't know isn't better off than they
were in'08. Period.

>
>Under Obama:
>
>Labor force participation rate for black Americans across the board
>slipped from 63.2 percent to 61.7 percent.
>
>The percentage of black Americans struggling below the poverty line
>advanced from 25.8 percent to 26.2 percent.
>
>Real median income among black households sank from $35,954 to
>$35,398.
>
>The number of black food-stamp participants exploded from 7,393,000 to
>11,699,000, the U.S. Department of Agriculture reports — up 58.2
>percent.
>
>From January 2009 through the fourth quarter of 2015, the percentage
>of black Americans who owned homes foundered from 46.1 percent to 41.9
>percent — down 9.1 percent.
>
>These black American's are better off then they were in 2008, aren't
>they?

There will be someone that shows different numbers I'm sure.

[Moderate]

Bob...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:

>
> You don't see shit! The following has nothing to do with the question
> I was asked and my answer. I don't know isn't better off than they
> were in'08. Period.
>>

No you want them working in the fields. That is why you don't see
or know any minorities.


--

[Bob...@onramp.net]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 18:16:29 -0600 (CST), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
wrote:

Another stupid post from Mr. Stupid.
I'm including friends of mine who are minorities.

[Alan Baker]

Source?

[recscub...@huntzinger.com]

A manuscript from Professor Peter Schickele from the University of Southern
North Dakota at Hoople.


-hh