MAZDA

[B...@onramp.net]

Carbs, I know you have a Miata and thought I'd get in on the
discussion.

I had a Mazda RX-7 Convertible in the 90s. Great car, Wankel engine,
fully loaded. Really fast and I loved it. The top automatically went
in the trunk which just flabbergasted a guy with a similar aged
Mercedes rag top sports car. Unfortunately in 1999 the Wankel blew.
They wanted too much for a new engine so I sold it for $2500 and
bought a
used 1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse convertible for $5,000. It was OK, but
in 2014 I got the best car ever, a brand new G35 Infinity coupe
loaded, and sold the Eclipse for $5500, because the guy wanted a car
from the movie Fast and Furious. LOL.

I still have the Infiniti. 13 years old and except for a couple of
scratches in great condition. A year ago I took it into the dealer
service department and gave the manager a blank check to do whatever
it took to put it in new shape. He called the next day and said it
was ready. When I asked what they did he said that they changed the
oil. Period. I told him that I was thinking about a new one and he
asked me why I would pay almost 6O grand for something I already had.
It'll be my last car.

Anyway, I saw the posts about cars and thought I'd get involved.

[John B.]

My wife and I have been driving Mercedes for the last 20 years. A few mos.
ago her C230 bit the dust w/130k miles on it. So we bought a 2011
Lexus hybrid SUV w/46k miles on it. Hands down the best car I've ever
owned. Makes a comparable Mercedes seem like a Volkswagen.

[Alan Baker]

A client of mine was dead set against Lexus and Infiniti...

...until he drove one.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

The rotary engine was terrific except for the issues of fuel economy &
longevity.

The complexity of sealing the sides and tips of the rotor against the
housing plagues them to this day although they're much better now.

The RX-8 was definitely one of the vehicles on my short list if I wasn't
going to get another Miata.

:-)

[Dene]

Jeep Wrangler here. Fun..fun...fun. Perfect rig for Az

[Alan Baker]

Sadly under-engineered American crap.

Sorry, but it's true.

[Carbon]

That's awesome Bobby. People overlook the cost per mile angle, but it's important.

My wife has a 2012 v6 awd rav6, the last year it came with that engine. So far it has been utterly bulletproof. We fully plan on keeping it until it becomes unreliable, which could be a long time.

I came of age during the Malaise Era (approx. '75 to '85) when American cars were almost comically bad. I still trust Japanese cars more, but it's entirely likely that domestic cars are much better by now.

The first time in my life that I really defied my dad when he was dead set on getting a Caddilac Cimmaron, which was nothing more than a X-Body Chevy Citation, a shitbox if there ever was one, with extra velour and chrome and a 100% price bump for the rubes.

Dad: It's a Cadillac!

Me: It's a shitbox with a Cadillac badge!

We laughed about it later, but I think at the time I hurt his feelings. It worked out though: he bought a Toyota Supra instead and drove it for years with only routine maintenance. That is something that probably cannot be said for any Cimmaron ever made.

[John B.]

I had a Jeep Cherokee. I liked it, but it didn't last very long.

[-hh]

Had a coworker with a Cherokee .. being a pax was quite unpleasant, although some of that may have also been the driver. Can't recall any recent time in a Wrangler, but their NVH when I'm passing them doesn't make it at all appealing to me.

Hope Alan enjoys the 1-Series. Can't recall if that model/year had run flats (reason why I skipped this marquee a few years ago).

On the higher end Japanese rides, a former boss has a Lexus that we did some road trips in. Was my first real experience with HID headlights- I was sold on them, got them on my current ride and expect that they'll be on the next Audi the Mrs buys.

-hh

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

I had a Jeep Cherokee. I liked it, but it didn't last very long.

No questions Jeep has their lemon drop histories but recent years with the Wrangler have been stellar. Mine is certified until 100k.

Gotta tell you....it's a blast to take the top down and take "roads" few rigs can handle. Great for Az. Feel free to check out my FB page for the variety of adventures I've been on.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-23 9:15 AM, Dene wrote:
>
> - show quoted text - I had a Jeep Cherokee. I liked it, but it didn't
> last very long.
>
> No questions Jeep has their lemon drop histories but recent years
> with the Wrangler have been stellar. Mine is certified until 100k.

As are pretty much all cars...

...because the government mandated that systems relating to emissions
had to be.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-23 6:55 AM, -hh wrote:
> Had a coworker with a Cherokee .. being a pax was quite unpleasant,
> although some of that may have also been the driver. Can't recall
> any recent time in a Wrangler, but their NVH when I'm passing them
> doesn't make it at all appealing to me.
>
> Hope Alan enjoys the 1-Series. Can't recall if that model/year had
> run flats (reason why I skipped this marquee a few years ago).

It did have when it was new (it's a 2012), but they've since been
replaced with conventional tires.

>
> On the higher end Japanese rides, a former boss has a Lexus that we
> did some road trips in. Was my first real experience with HID
> headlights- I was sold on them, got them on my current ride and
> expect that they'll be on the next Audi the Mrs buys.

The 135 has them, along with active steering of the lights. It's great.

:-)

[Dene]

Finally....a fun discussion. Between my wife and I, we've owned 6 Fords. Three Explorers, Fusion, Edge, and Escape. All were loaded and very reliable with good resale. Currently she drives a loaded Escape and loves it. I like the bang for the buck. Incidentally, the one car I have never owned is. Mazda, but my daughter drives one. Impressive vehicle.

In contrast, my luck with BMW and VW was abysmal. Never again.

[John B.]

Your drive train is certified to 100K. Nothing else is.

[Dene]

- hide quoted text -

Don't think so. They replaced a battery for free.

[Alan Baker]

"There are a lot of places you can go in five years' time. And with the
Jeep® Brand vehicle 5-Year/60,000-Mile Powertrain Limited Warranty*,
we'll go on the adventure with you"

<https://www.mopar.com/jeep/en-us/care/current-model-year-coverage.html>

[-hh]

On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 12:21:57 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2017-07-23 6:55 AM, -hh wrote:
> > Had a coworker with a Cherokee .. being a pax was quite unpleasant,
> > although some of that may have also been the driver. Can't recall
> > any recent time in a Wrangler, but their NVH when I'm passing them
> > doesn't make it at all appealing to me.
> >
> > Hope Alan enjoys the 1-Series. Can't recall if that model/year had
> > run flats (reason why I skipped this marquee a few years ago).
>
> It did have when it was new (it's a 2012), but they've since been
> replaced with conventional tires.

Apparently, runflats have gotten a bit "less bad", but on a
fundamental engineering perspective, they must always be worse
because they increase unsprung mass. Overall, I find it more than
just a bit disappointing that 'Ultimate Driving Machine' BMW adopted
them at all.

> > On the higher end Japanese rides, a former boss has a Lexus that we
> > did some road trips in. Was my first real experience with HID
> > headlights- I was sold on them, got them on my current ride and
> > expect that they'll be on the next Audi the Mrs buys.
>
> The 135 has them, along with active steering of the lights. It's great.
> :-)

Enjoy!

In the meantime, this URL came through on my newsfeed today, which
is interestingly topical ... in case anyone is interested in picking
up a "Supersized GTI":

<http://autoweek.com/article/wait-theres-more/who-wins-vir-1987-porsche-944-turbo-or-2017-macan-gts>


-hh

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-25 2:20 PM, -hh wrote:
> On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 12:21:57 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2017-07-23 6:55 AM, -hh wrote:
>>> Had a coworker with a Cherokee .. being a pax was quite unpleasant,
>>> although some of that may have also been the driver. Can't recall
>>> any recent time in a Wrangler, but their NVH when I'm passing them
>>> doesn't make it at all appealing to me.
>>>
>>> Hope Alan enjoys the 1-Series. Can't recall if that model/year had
>>> run flats (reason why I skipped this marquee a few years ago).
>>
>> It did have when it was new (it's a 2012), but they've since been
>> replaced with conventional tires.
>
> Apparently, runflats have gotten a bit "less bad", but on a
> fundamental engineering perspective, they must always be worse
> because they increase unsprung mass. Overall, I find it more than
> just a bit disappointing that 'Ultimate Driving Machine' BMW adopted
> them at all.

Well... ...there wasn't really room in the 135i for a full-size spare,
so they chose to offer runflats or a tire inflation kit.

>
>>> On the higher end Japanese rides, a former boss has a Lexus that we
>>> did some road trips in. Was my first real experience with HID
>>> headlights- I was sold on them, got them on my current ride and
>>> expect that they'll be on the next Audi the Mrs buys.
>>
>> The 135 has them, along with active steering of the lights. It's great.
>> :-)
>
> Enjoy!
>
> In the meantime, this URL came through on my newsfeed today, which
> is interestingly topical ... in case anyone is interested in picking
> up a "Supersized GTI":
>
> <http://autoweek.com/article/wait-theres-more/who-wins-vir-1987-porsche-944-turbo-or-2017-macan-gts>

I'm not really surprised.

Horsepower: it still wins a lot of arguments.

:-)

[-hh]

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 9:58:32 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2017-07-25 2:20 PM, -hh wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 12:21:57 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote:
> >> On 2017-07-23 6:55 AM, -hh wrote:
> >>> Had a coworker with a Cherokee .. being a pax was quite unpleasant,
> >>> although some of that may have also been the driver. Can't recall
> >>> any recent time in a Wrangler, but their NVH when I'm passing them
> >>> doesn't make it at all appealing to me.
> >>>
> >>> Hope Alan enjoys the 1-Series. Can't recall if that model/year had
> >>> run flats (reason why I skipped this marquee a few years ago).
> >>
> >> It did have when it was new (it's a 2012), but they've since been
> >> replaced with conventional tires.
> >
> > Apparently, runflats have gotten a bit "less bad", but on a
> > fundamental engineering perspective, they must always be worse
> > because they increase unsprung mass. Overall, I find it more than
> > just a bit disappointing that 'Ultimate Driving Machine' BMW adopted
> > them at all.
>
> Well... ...there wasn't really room in the 135i for a full-size spare,
> so they chose to offer runflats or a tire inflation kit.

Unfortunately, while I understand what you're saying about refitting,
from a vehicle designer standpoint, it is an insultingly bogus argument.

For example, even Honda's first generation Civic had a full size spare,
and that vehicle was only 140" long (vs 172" = 32" shorter) and 59.25"
wide (vs 68.8" = 9" narrower) than an 135i.

There isn't a spare today (even a compact) because BMW's designers,
despite having a larger envelope to work with, decided that they
would instead allocate the spare tire space claim to something else.

Since they (BMW) doesn't have to pay for stuff like this:

"Huge pothole reportedly flattens 20 tires on Route 80"

<http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2017/07/route_80_pothole_reportedly_flattening_tires_and_c.html>

(an extreme example to be sure, but nevertheless a contemporary
issue that's been exasperated by runflats & lower profile tires)

> >>> On the higher end Japanese rides, a former boss has a Lexus that
> >>> we did some road trips in. Was my first real experience with HID
> >>> headlights- I was sold on them, got them on my current ride and
> >>> expect that they'll be on the next Audi the Mrs buys.
> >>
> >> The 135 has them, along with active steering of the lights. It's great.
> >> :-)
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> > In the meantime, this URL came through on my newsfeed today, which
> > is interestingly topical ... in case anyone is interested in picking
> > up a "Supersized GTI":
> >
> > <http://autoweek.com/article/wait-theres-more/who-wins-vir-1987-porsche-944-turbo-or-2017-macan-gts>
>
> I'm not really surprised.

Considering that the Macan Turbo has similarly been put up against
a brand new M3, I'm not all that surprised either.

> Horsepower: it still wins a lot of arguments.
> :-)

True enough, although it doesn't quite seem so cut & dry to me:
it appears that the extra power (despite extra mass) did make
the Macan faster on the straights, and despite the higher CG,
the modern tech in suspension, brakes & tires were able to
allow the Macan to not be slower than the 944T in the twists,
so the net lap times overall came down to the time gained on
the straights with minimal losses in the corners. This would
also illustrate that the course layout played a big part.

I also noticed the driver mentioned (approx. at 13:00) the Macan's
greater ease-of-spirited handling, which I'd say is an attribute
of the 3 decades difference in vintages/technology.


-hh

[David Laville]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 22:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

I had a jeep Liberty. After 5 years nothing but problems with the
cooling system. It also had terrible gas mileage. I just bought a
new 2017 Nissan Altima. Nice to see 38 MPG average on the dash
screen.

[Dene]

On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 22:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

- show quoted text -

I had a jeep Liberty. After 5 years nothing but problems with the
cooling system. It also had terrible gas mileage. I just bought a
new 2017 Nissan Altima. Nice to see 38 MPG average on the dash
screen.

Two reasons why I like my Wrangler. I can take the top off and explore any dirt road. A lot of that in Az.

I don't think I would own any other kind of Jeep.

[Alan Baker]

Way to buy American, David!

:-)

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-07-31 9:16 PM, Dene wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2017 22:55:22 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
> wrote:
> - show quoted text -
> I had a jeep Liberty. After 5 years nothing but problems with the
> cooling system. It also had terrible gas mileage. I just bought a
> new 2017 Nissan Altima. Nice to see 38 MPG average on the dash
> screen.
>
> Two reasons why I like my Wrangler.

You have not taste, and you have no discrimination.

> I can take the top off and explore any dirt road. A lot of that in Az.

You imagine that only a Jeep Wrangler is capable of that?

[-hh]

Alan wrote:
> On 2017-07-31 9:16 PM, Dene wrote:

>> David wrote:
>>> I had a jeep Liberty. After 5 years nothing but problems with the
>>> cooling system. It also had terrible gas mileage. I just bought a
>>> new 2017 Nissan Altima. Nice to see 38 MPG average on the dash
>>> screen.
>>
>> Two reasons why I like my Wrangler.
>
> You have not taste, and you have no discrimination.

Jeep Wranglers owners are a tiny percentage of the US population,
so it's okay to descriminate against them /S

>> I can take the top off and explore any dirt road. A lot of that in Az.
>
> You imagine that only a Jeep Wrangler is capable of that?

Patience, give Greg some time:
he's scheduled to make a 2,000 mile highway drive this month,
so the Jeep's high levels of NVH will be do the talking for you,
on every single day of his trip.

For highway road buzz, it's one of the worst US civilian vehicles of the decade.

-hh

[Carbon]

OTOH, in terms of mileage, reliability and general customer satisfaction the Jeep Liberty was known to be one of the most awful vehicles available to the public. Just about anything else would be better.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017 22:37:18 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
wrote:

When a great car is made in America people will buy them.
Do you have a Canadian car? :-)















>
>:-)

[MNMikeW]

No, he's just a hypocrite.

[Alan Baker]

Nope. I don't think people should choose what car they buy based on
where it was made...

...but people of your ilk do...

...well, you want other people to do it, not yourselves.

:-)

[Dene]

I've made this trip 4 previous times. No issue. Last Spring it hauled a 2500 lb trailer, in and out of Death Valley. 116 degrees. Again...no issues.

Off road, it's a champ!

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

No, he's just a hypocrite.

And a RAT.

[Alan Baker]

Better than a coward...

[michae...@gmail.com]

Back to role reversal, Shit Stain?

You are the biggest coward around.

Asshole.

:-)

[michae...@gmail.com]

And the POS is trying hard for interaction.

IT'S an Asshole. IT'S daddi knew what a loser IT was.

[Carbon]

Jeeps are still quite popular in the hinterlands. My wife's parents lived in rural Newfoundland, with winters that can only be imagined by most Americans. Just getting up the lane to their house can be a feat in itself. They had Cherokees for years. They were simple vehicles, and while loud and jouncy they never got stuck.

That said, their last two cars have been Hyundai Santa Fe's. While only AWD and not 4WD, they have not gotten stuck and they are worlds ahead in quality and liveability.

[Dene]

Jeeps are still quite popular in the hinterlands. My wife's parents lived in rural Newfoundland, with winters that can only be imagined by most Americans. Just getting up the lane to their house can be a feat in itself. They had Cherokees for years. They were simple vehicles, and while loud and jouncy they never got stuck.

That said, their last two cars have been Hyundai Santa Fe's. While only AWD and not 4WD, they have not gotten stuck and they are worlds ahead in quality and liveability.

If I didn't live in Arizona most of the year, I would not own a Wrangler. I love seeing a primitive road and seeing where it goes. It has taken me to some awesome places. In Oregon, we are well served by my wife's loaded, 4wd Escape...specially in the snow and slop.

[-hh]

Greg wrote:

> Carbon wrote:
>> Jeeps are still quite popular in the hinterlands. My wife's parents lived in rural Newfoundland,
>> with winters that can only be imagined by most Americans. Just getting up the lane to their
>> house can be a feat in itself. They had Cherokees for years. They were simple vehicles, and
>> while loud and jouncy they never got stuck.
>>
>> That said, their last two cars have been Hyundai Santa Fe's. While only AWD and not 4WD,
>> they have not gotten stuck and they are worlds ahead in quality and liveability.

I've found it to be pretty interesting in how rare Jeeps are outside of the USA, particularly in the
seriously hinterland destinations on the African continent. Anecdotally, I'd say that Toyota has
strong representation (both our guides last year had Toyotas) as well as some other Asians,
plus older Rovers (less electronics = more reliable + easier to maintain).

> If I didn't live in Arizona most of the year, I would not own a Wrangler. I love seeing a primitive
> road and seeing where it goes. It has taken me to some awesome places. In Oregon, we are
> well served by my wife's loaded, 4wd Escape...specially in the snow and slop.

How is the Escape's NVH & handling differences between summer -vs- winter running gear?

In any event, there really is something to be said about individual baselines...I didn't really
think that Fords were all that bad when my experience base wasn't much more than Ford,
GM, etc...but when I went on to other products and then drove a Ford again (such as on my
trip to Benning this week), it becomes a revelation as to how NOT great that Ford was, as having
broader experiences had also included superior products which raised the standards for what
constituted a great, or superior, through good, meh, poor (or worse) ride.


-hh

[David Laville]

On Tue, 01 Aug 2017 09:58:12 -0500, B...@Onramp.net wrote:

>When a great car is made in America people will buy them.
>Do you have a Canadian car? :-)

The Nissan is the first foreign car I ever owned. I spend a lot of
time driving so gas mileage was the first priority for this purchase
followed by reliability and comfort. The Nissan Altima fit the bill.
There is nothing in that car that American engineers and companies
can't design or build better. They just don't seem to have the
motivation to want to. Next time I buy a new car if America is
building the better car in what I'm looking for I'll buy it.