Something to ponder

[bkn...@conramp.net]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite

[MNMikeW]

bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite

Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.

[Alan Baker]

In article <a0vjsh...@mid.individual.net>,

It delights me no end that you live down to everything that is worst in
human beings.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

[John B.]

On May 9, 11:40 am, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodb...

Dick Lugar is a great senator. Anybody who thinks the guy who beat him
is going to be better is delusional.

[William Clark]

In article <hn7lq71jnk85i2nb3...@4ax.com>,

A fitting comment on today's GoP. They replace a decent human being and
Rhodes Scholar with a Tea Party zealot.

[MNMikeW]

I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.

[Alan Baker]

In article <a0vsur...@mid.individual.net>,

MNMikeW <mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:

> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
> > On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:21:36 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
> >>> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?li
> >>> te
> >>
> >> Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.
> >
> > That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.
>
> I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.

"Marked man"... ...interesting language.

Apparently being thoughtful, honest and diligent "marks" you for some
people, huh?

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 09 May 2012 13:56:27 -0500, MNMikeW <mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:

>bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:21:36 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>>> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite
>>>
>>> Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.
>>
>> That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.
>
>I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.

It seems so., for being able to overcome petty partisanship in order
to better the political climate and provide better government.

[MNMikeW]

bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
> On Wed, 09 May 2012 13:56:27 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:21:36 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>>>> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite
>>>>
>>>> Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.
>>>
>>> That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.
>>
>> I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.
>
> It seems so., for being able to overcome petty partisanship in order
> to better the political climate and provide better government.

36 years, time for a chance. The RINO's had their chance.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

So you don't think that a congress made up with right-center and
left-center politicians would be a good mix? It's just fine to have
extremists there? Well, in your mind only those on the right.

Amazing.

[John B.]

On May 9, 2:56 pm, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> > On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:21:36 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmiik...@aol.com>  wrote:
>
> >> bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> >>>http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodb...

>
> >> Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.
>
> > That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.
>
> I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.

Not for any good reason.

[John B.]

On May 9, 3:43 pm, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> bkni...@conramp.net wrote:

> > On Wed, 09 May 2012 13:56:27 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmiik...@aol.com>  wrote:
>
> >> bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:21:36 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmiik...@aol.com>   wrote:
>
> >>>> bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> >>>>>http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodb...
>

> >>>> Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.
>
> >>> That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.
>
> >> I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.
>
> > It seems so., for being able to overcome petty partisanship in order
> > to better the political climate and provide better  government.
>
> 36 years, time for a chance. The RINO's had their chance.

As I said, anybody who thinks this new guy is going to be a better
Senator than Dick Lugar is delusional.

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <a0vsur...@mid.individual.net>,
> MNMikeW <mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.
>
> "Marked man"... ...interesting language.
>
> Apparently being thoughtful, honest and diligent "marks" you for some
> people, huh?

Not quite the same as David Axelrod calling the Koch brothers "contract
killers".

[Alan Baker]

In article <419912704358289821.66...@news.aioe.org>,

Who is "David Axelrod" and why do you feel that that is relevant?

See, I'm not complaining about "marked" as indicating any violent
implications. I'm concerned about the reality that being a reasonable
and sensible and thoughtful politician marks you as someone to get out
of politics.

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <419912704358289821.66...@news.aioe.org>,
> Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>>> In article <a0vsur...@mid.individual.net>,
>>> MNMikeW <mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.
>>>
>>> "Marked man"... ...interesting language.
>>>
>>> Apparently being thoughtful, honest and diligent "marks" you for some
>>> people, huh?
>>
>> Not quite the same as David Axelrod calling the Koch brothers "contract
>> killers".
>
> Who is "David Axelrod" and why do you feel that that is relevant?
>
> See, I'm not complaining about "marked" as indicating any violent
> implications. I'm concerned about the reality that being a reasonable
> and sensible and thoughtful politician marks you as someone to get out
> of politics.

If you knew what you were talking about you might understand.

[Alan Baker]

In article <1436210949358292567.7...@news.aioe.org>,

And you've done SO much to enlighten, haven't you?

:-)

[MNMikeW]

No it your little mind, anyone who is conservative is an extremist. But
you are a lefty so it fits.

[kenpitts]

On May 9, 11:44 am, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:

> On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:21:36 -0500, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> >bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> >>http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodb...
>

> >Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.
>
> That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.

He voted for Sotomayor and Kagan? He's a RINO for sure. Good
riddance.

Ken

[bkn...@conramp.net]

None of that is true. I'm about as left as Kenn Smith and that
certainly isn't out of the realm of reason. I also have several
friends, most of my golf group, who are conservative. In fact one of
them is married to one of the most visible Republicans's in the
country's personal gal Friday. They aren't extremists. They don't
spit the word "liberal" like it's distasteful either. We actually
have political discussion without vitriol.

I met Barry once after a speech in Dallas. We were walking to our
cars and my friend asked him what he thought about liberals. He
stopped and said "My grandfather started the Liberal Party in Arizona
and if you're a liberal stick to your guns. We have to have both
views or this country is headed for trouble." I guess in your weak
mind he was a RINO.

I don't see any of those thoughts here though. The righties here are
vituperative, spiteful and demeaning without any reason, just like
your statement above. Those who are obviously whole-hearted liberals
here don't stoop to that level. That's what separated Lugar from what
has become pure partisanship; reason.
Those

[Loudon Briggs]

bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

>http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite


I find the times to be troubling when this article and Joe Biden's
comments make total sense to me. He absolutely understands and decrys
what's happening in this country...the "left" and the "right" are
beginning to sound and act like "opposites" in the radical Muslim
domains... we decry what's going on there but, are blind to the fact
that we, as a country, are beginning to act more and more in the same
manner.

Even a state that always elected such moderates as Bayh and Lugar, has
opted for a more radical position. There are also some moderate
Democrats who had best be ready for the same situation.! Times are a
changing, and not for the better!

Any other moderates here? If so, read this and cover your ass!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/opinion/the-last-moderate.html
--

Loudon R. Briggs lar...@bbz.net Phoenix, AZ

"How Can You Not Like A Game Where It's Okay To
Get Teed Off, Tote A Six-Iron, Shoot Birdies,
and If You're Under Par It's A Great Day!"

(from "Frank & Ernest" by Bob Thaves -- used with permission)

[james]

"Moderate" wrote in message
news:1436210949358292567.7...@news.aioe.org...

Come on, cut the loser a little slack. He's been running back and
forth between this group, the Mac group and who knows where else.
He's tired. He started as soon as he rolled out of bed this
afternoon. He's just too tired to understand.

[Kenn Smith]

What a thoughtful post, Loudon.

I am a long time moderate independent, won't support either major party
because I consider them equally corrupt at anything above the precinct
level and some precincts are questionable.

As evidenced by Senator Lugar's defeat, out nation tends to become more
and more divided and that it worrisome. I think it might have been
Speaker Sam Rayburn who said, "Politics is the art of compromise".
Politics is no longer practiced in Congress, in fact compromise is
looked upon as a sign of weakness. Our congress, right now, is a train
wreck in motion. The entire political process is, in fact, a train
wreck in motion. The questions now are who and what the tumbling rail
cars are going to crush and what will come out of the rubble.

Get through your heads folks, if you can, there is no absolute "right"
or absolute "wrong" in the political process outside of extremes like
Nazism or Fascism. There are centerist positions which respect the
values of conservatives and liberals and, given the opporltunity, would
attempt to govern that way.

I think that in one respect Loudon and I are fortunate. We are old.
Most likely neither of us will live to see the collapse of the nation we
dearly love. But given the current political climate the collapse will
happen and we will evolve with some sort of a multiparty system which
may or may not be able to sustain the vision of our founders.

[Moderate]

Look at when it started and who perpetuates it. When Bush beat Gore the
Democrats went ballistic. They refused to accept Bush as President. Now we
have Obama taking regular snipes at conservatives. You never saw Bush do
that.

[Carbon]

On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:59:12 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <a0vsur...@mid.individual.net>, MNMikeW
> <mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:21:36 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?li
>>>>> te
>>>>
>>>> Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.
>>>
>>> That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.
>>
>> I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.
>
> "Marked man"... ...interesting language.
>
> Apparently being thoughtful, honest and diligent "marks" you for some
> people, huh?

Yes.

[Kenn Smith]

Thank you, Moderate, I think you just made Loudon's and my point.
Rather than engage in rational dialog and search for a solution it is
immediate finger pointing and blame assigning - "Well, they started it."
If you've ever had to break up an arguement between two adolescents it
should sound familiar.

[Moderate]

Started it and perpetuate it. When the President is making digs at
conservatives who is going to back off? Grow up.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 00:45:13 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
wrote:

>Started it and perpetuate it. When the President is making digs at
>conservatives who is going to back off? Grow up.

Unreal. You're telling Kenn, one of the most rational posters here,
to grow up?

Your brain needs an enema because it's full of it.

[Moderate]

Hahaha. Didn't you just say you were most like Kenn? We could not melt
rational and pour it on you.

[William Clark]

In article <8134-4FA...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>,

Actually this really has its modern roots in Reagan selling out to the
"Moral Majority" to get elected. Once the evangelicals got there teeth
into the GoP, it was all downhill, until we end up where the GoP is
today.

[Kommienezuspadt]

"MNMikeW" wrote in message news:a108ll...@mid.individual.net...

===

Today Mourdoch said his idea of being bi-partisan is for the other guy to
agree with him -- and he said his idea for Congress is to inflict his ideas
on others -- his word -- inflict.

He lost 4 races in Indiana before being selected to run for state treasurer.

Today I sent $$ to Joe Donnelly -- I've met him several times & told he was
too conservative for my taste but I would help guide him..

BTW -- One night in Indy I was eating at Shapiro's - (a great deli) & Lugar
was eating alone at the next table --- we had a very pleasant conversation &
I've always said Indiana could do worse -- like Dan Coats -- who has
forgotten Indiana again -- he must be lobbying part time while serving.

[BAR]

In article <8o3lq75gvbo6neq5l...@4ax.com>,
bkn...@conramp.net says...
>
> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite

When you are identified as Obama's favorite Republican Senator that's
all anyone needs to know about you.

Do you think Lugar will retire to Indiana?

[BAR]

In article <0dilq7dr7g104te34...@4ax.com>,
bkn...@conramp.net says...

No.

> Amazing.

I like Mourdock's line about compromising is when the Democrats accept
the conservative Republican's position.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 01:00:20 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>

wrote:

><bkn...@conramp.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 May 2012 00:45:13 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Started it and perpetuate it. When the President is making digs at
>>> conservatives who is going to back off? Grow up.
>>
>> Unreal. You're telling Kenn, one of the most rational posters here,
>> to grow up?
>>
>> Your brain needs an enema because it's full of it.
>
>Hahaha. Didn't you just say you were most like Kenn? We could not melt
>rational and pour it on you.

My political stance is almost exactly how Kenn posed his. That wasn't
the topic though. It was you having the balls to tell him to grow up.

get that enema.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 9 May 2012 21:23:32 -0400, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:

>In article <8o3lq75gvbo6neq5l...@4ax.com>,
>bkn...@conramp.net says...
>>
>> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite
>
>When you are identified as Obama's favorite Republican Senator that's
>all anyone needs to know about you.

Read the article and if you don't agree with Lugar you're a nutcase.

>
>Do you think Lugar will retire to Indiana?

Who cares?

[bkn...@conramp.net]

Figures.

[BAR]

In article <os6mq7lt1ipitcr06...@4ax.com>,
bkn...@conramp.net says...

>
> On Wed, 9 May 2012 21:23:32 -0400, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <8o3lq75gvbo6neq5l...@4ax.com>,
> >bkn...@conramp.net says...
> >>
> >> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite
> >
> >When you are identified as Obama's favorite Republican Senator that's
> >all anyone needs to know about you.
>
> Read the article and if you don't agree with Lugar you're a nutcase.

You prove you are a lefty whacko every chance you get.

> >
> >Do you think Lugar will retire to Indiana?
> Who cares?

It proves the point that he was out of touch with his constituents.
Lugar left Indiana in 1977 and never looked back.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 9 May 2012 21:59:37 -0400, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:

>In article <os6mq7lt1ipitcr06...@4ax.com>,
>bkn...@conramp.net says...
>>
>> On Wed, 9 May 2012 21:23:32 -0400, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <8o3lq75gvbo6neq5l...@4ax.com>,
>> >bkn...@conramp.net says...
>> >>
>> >> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite
>> >
>> >When you are identified as Obama's favorite Republican Senator that's
>> >all anyone needs to know about you.
>>
>> Read the article and if you don't agree with Lugar you're a nutcase.
>

>YouT prove you are a lefty whacko every chance you get.
>

The fact that I think a man wrote a statement suggesting that
bipartisanship was a good thing makes me a whacko? You're insane.

BS. Your sophomoric posts belie the fact that you're an adult, no
matter what your politics are. Most are like this one which makes you
look absolutely silly.

Sorta like you implying that your politics are values important
enough to die for. That's a teenager talking.

[Kommienezuspadt]

wrote in message news:tv6mq7p0co3pitlhl...@4ax.com...

===

I doubt moderate Indiana voters will take BAR's position

[Kenn Smith]

I'm always interested in enlightment, even at the age of 80. One is
never too old to learn. So, OK, Moderate, tell me exactly how I'm
supposed to "grow up".

This should be interesting :-)

[Kommienezuspadt]

"BAR" wrote in message news:MPG.2a14eb1...@news.giganews.com...

===

Dan Coats left Indiana to grab lobbying money -- then ran again & won but no
one I know has seen him hanging around the state since he won again.

[Kommienezuspadt]

"Kenn Smith" wrote in message
news:2317-4FA...@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net...

==

I guess you have to go Mourdock -- just give in to anyone that opposes you

[Moderate]

Try listening instead of talking. Go back and read my post. Instead of
insulting me, evaluate the truth of what I posted.

[BAR]

In article <wZFqr.1676$3y3...@newsfe20.iad>, NoTh...@NoSpam.com
says...

It isn't my position, it is Mourdock's position. Please do try and keep
up with current events.

The question is will Indiana voters support Mourdock's position.

[BAR]

In article <DyGqr.662$FL3...@newsfe11.iad>, NoTh...@NoSpam.com says...

This is the position that the Democrats have taken quite a long time, go
along with us and everything will be fine.

[BAR]

In article <_vGqr.661$FL3...@newsfe11.iad>, NoTh...@NoSpam.com says...

Do you live in his district? If you don't why do you care?

[bkn...@conramp.net]

Good question to ask yourself Bert.

[Frank Ketchum]

<bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:8o3lq75gvbo6neq5l...@4ax.com...
> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite
>

Goodbye and good riddance Lugar.

[John B.]

On May 10, 8:09 am, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
> In article <_vGqr.661$FL3....@newsfe11.iad>, NoTha...@NoSpam.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "BAR"  wrote in messagenews:MPG.2a14eb1...@news.giganews.com...
>
> > In article <os6mq7lt1ipitcr06nhcjciok3euilj...@4ax.com>,
> > bkni...@conramp.net says...

>
> > > On Wed, 9 May 2012 21:23:32 -0400, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
>

> > > >In article <8o3lq75gvbo6neq5lmund0o1hm837g6...@4ax.com>,
> > > >bkni...@conramp.net says...
>
> > > >>http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodb...

>
> > > >When you are identified as Obama's favorite Republican Senator that's
> > > >all anyone needs to know about you.
>
> > >  Read the article and if you don't agree with Lugar you're a nutcase.
>
> > You prove you are a lefty whacko every chance you get.
>
> > > >Do you think Lugar will retire to Indiana?
> > > Who cares?
>
> > It proves the point that he was out of touch with his constituents.
> > Lugar left Indiana in 1977 and never looked back.
>
> > ===
>
> > Dan Coats left Indiana to grab lobbying money -- then ran again & won but no
> > one I know has seen him hanging around the state since he won again.
>
> Do you live in his district? If you don't why do you care?

He doesn't represent a district, dumbass. He represents the state. Do
you live in Indiana? If not, why do you care?

[Kenn Smith]

Actually, Senator Lugar was/is a pretty staunch conservative. I think
his most recent rate by The American Conservative Union (I think I have
that name correct) was a 77. Agreeing with the conservative positon
more than 3/4 of the time doesn't make him a liberal.

Where he was different was that he would on occasion reach across the
isle to negotiate and compromise and was unfailingly civil. He just
made the fatal mistake of losing touch with the electorate.

[MNMikeW]

Obama has done nothing but finger point and blame for the last three
years. So much for the great uniter label.

[MNMikeW]

bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

> On Wed, 09 May 2012 17:16:21 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 14:43:56 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 13:56:27 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 09 May 2012 11:21:36 -0500, MNMikeW<mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>>>>>>>> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodbye?lite
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Waaaa. Sour grapes to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That tells me that you didn't read it carefully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did actually. Lugar has been a marked man for some time now.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems so., for being able to overcome petty partisanship in order
>>>>> to better the political climate and provide better government.
>>>>
>>>> 36 years, time for a chance. The RINO's had their chance.
>>>
>>> So you don't think that a congress made up with right-center and
>>> left-center politicians would be a good mix? It's just fine to have
>>> extremists there? Well, in your mind only those on the right.
>>>

>>> Amazing.
>>
>> No it your little mind, anyone who is conservative is an extremist. But
>> you are a lefty so it fits.
>

> None of that is true. I'm about as left as Kenn Smith and that
> certainly isn't out of the realm of reason. I also have several
> friends, most of my golf group, who are conservative. In fact one of
> them is married to one of the most visible Republicans's in the
> country's personal gal Friday. They aren't extremists. They don't
> spit the word "liberal" like it's distasteful either. We actually
> have political discussion without vitriol.
>
> I met Barry once after a speech in Dallas. We were walking to our
> cars and my friend asked him what he thought about liberals. He
> stopped and said "My grandfather started the Liberal Party in Arizona
> and if you're a liberal stick to your guns. We have to have both
> views or this country is headed for trouble." I guess in your weak
> mind he was a RINO.
>
> I don't see any of those thoughts here though. The righties here are
> vituperative, spiteful and demeaning without any reason, just like
> your statement above. Those who are obviously whole-hearted liberals
> here don't stoop to that level. That's what separated Lugar from what
> has become pure partisanship; reason.
> Those
>
Why are liberals so ashamed of the word liberal? And you might want to
look in the mirror when you throw out the demeaning label.

[MNMikeW]

Much like Obama.

>
> He lost 4 races in Indiana before being selected to run for state
> treasurer.

Persistant bugger.

>
> Today I sent $$ to Joe Donnelly -- I've met him several times & told he
> was too conservative for my taste but I would help guide him..
>
> BTW -- One night in Indy I was eating at Shapiro's - (a great deli) &
> Lugar was eating alone at the next table --- we had a very pleasant
> conversation & I've always said Indiana could do worse -- like Dan Coats
> -- who has forgotten Indiana again -- he must be lobbying part time
> while serving.

I'm sure Lugar is a very nice guy.

[Frank Ketchum]

"Kenn Smith" <grizzl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14136-4FA...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...

> Actually, Senator Lugar was/is a pretty staunch conservative. I think
> his most recent rate by The American Conservative Union (I think I have
> that name correct) was a 77. Agreeing with the conservative positon
> more than 3/4 of the time doesn't make him a liberal.

I didn't call him a liberal. However getting it wrong a full 23 percent of
the time is not good enough considering our current situation.

> Where he was different was that he would on occasion reach across the
> isle to negotiate and compromise and was unfailingly civil. He just
> made the fatal mistake of losing touch with the electorate.

There is nothing wrong with being civil. There is plenty wrong with
compromising with the current political left.

[Frank Ketchum]

"William Clark" <cl...@nospammatsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news:clark-A33877....@news.eternal-september.org...

"There" teeth? From the professor who is always condescendingly critical of
everyone's English?

[gpsman]

On May 9, 11:40 am, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/08/11605668-lugars-goodb...

If you wouldn't mind, and you can't take it elsewhere, how about
preceding your unrelated-to-golf ponderings with an "OT-"...?

It's just good form.
-----

- gpsman

[bkn...@conramp.net]

Well, for those liberals here it might be because the label is used
in a vituperative sense by the right-wing extremists.

>And you might want to
>look in the mirror when you throw out the demeaning label.

Like your saying "in your little mind" above? Or the fact that I
actually used the term nonpartisan?

I just don't get you Mike. At times you're reasonable, and then
you'll come across like lame brains Bert, Whorebath and LLLLLarrrry
at times.


___,
\o
|
/ \
.
“Someone likes every shot”
bk

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 11:02:17 -0400, "Frank Ketchum"
<nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:

>
>"Kenn Smith" <grizzl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>news:14136-4FA...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
>> Actually, Senator Lugar was/is a pretty staunch conservative. I think
>> his most recent rate by The American Conservative Union (I think I have
>> that name correct) was a 77. Agreeing with the conservative positon
>> more than 3/4 of the time doesn't make him a liberal.
>
>I didn't call him a liberal. However getting it wrong a full 23 percent of
>the time is not good enough considering our current situation.
>
>
>> Where he was different was that he would on occasion reach across the
>> isle to negotiate and compromise and was unfailingly civil. He just
>> made the fatal mistake of losing touch with the electorate.
>

>T here is nothing wrong with being civil. There is plenty wrong with

>compromising with the current political left.
>

/That statement is exactly what's wrong with right wing extremists.
You think only one way, and it ain't always right...as in correct.

[MNMikeW]

Frank is hardly an extremist.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

There's a unbiased point of view. I beg to differ. But, as I've said
often...that doesn't necessarily make you a bad person.

[Don Kirkman]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 08:09:24 -0400, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:

>In article <wZFqr.1676$3y3...@newsfe20.iad>, NoTh...@NoSpam.com
>says...
>>
>> wrote in message news:tv6mq7p0co3pitlhl...@4ax.com...

>> I doubt moderate Indiana voters will take BAR's position
>
>It isn't my position, it is Mourdock's position. Please do try and keep
>up with current events.

Quoth BAR: "I like Mourdock's line about compromising is when the

Democrats accept the conservative Republican's position. "

--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net

[Alan Baker]

In article <GLQqr.14$Nh...@newsfe17.iad>,

"Frank Ketchum" <nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:

> "Kenn Smith" <grizzl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:14136-4FA...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
> > Actually, Senator Lugar was/is a pretty staunch conservative. I think
> > his most recent rate by The American Conservative Union (I think I have
> > that name correct) was a 77. Agreeing with the conservative positon
> > more than 3/4 of the time doesn't make him a liberal.
>
> I didn't call him a liberal. However getting it wrong a full 23 percent of
> the time is not good enough considering our current situation.

Simply assuming that any time one doesn't vote the party line is...

...how to put this...

...monumentally stupid.

>
>
> > Where he was different was that he would on occasion reach across the
> > isle to negotiate and compromise and was unfailingly civil. He just
> > made the fatal mistake of losing touch with the electorate.
>
> There is nothing wrong with being civil. There is plenty wrong with
> compromising with the current political left.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

[Alan Baker]

In article <a12chb...@mid.individual.net>,

He just showed that he is in the most straight forward way possible.

[Frank Ketchum]

<bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:pvtnq7tsi605pgu55...@4ax.com...

What's wrong is that there are far too many sitting in the middle wringing
their hands about lack of compromise. Thank God there are enough
republicans refusing to compromise with this group of wild-eyed statists in
congress. This may be the most do-nothing congress in a long time and we
are better off for it.

Compromising with these democrats is like mixing your scoop of ice cream
with their scoop of dog shit.

[John B.]

He didn't lose touch with the electorate. The electorate moved to the
extreme right and he didn't follow.

[MNMikeW]

It's my point of view, no more biased than your's. I know some
extremists, you obviously do not if you think Frank is one.

[John B.]

On May 10, 11:02 am, "Frank Ketchum" <nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:
> "Kenn Smith" <grizzledb...@webtv.net> wrote in message

The "current political left" is not nearly as far to the left as the
political left of the 60s and 70s. The Democratic Party has moved
measurably toward the center since then. At the same time the GOP has
moved well to the right and people like you and Bert say that
centrists or moderates are no longer welcome in the party. If you and
he had the slightest idea of how things work in Washington, you
wouldn't defend people who refuse to compromise with Democrats. Like
it or not, that's how things get done here.

[William Clark]

In article <13Rqr.3614$8L6....@newsfe07.iad>,

Actually from the professor who apologizes for not thinking it worth the
time to proof read when the topic is so banal.

[Alan Baker]

In article <DeUqr.5403$h64....@newsfe13.iad>,

And that is the position of an extremist idiot.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 14:59:49 -0400, "Frank Ketchum"

Doing nothing because both sides are being exactly what you think is a
good thing....not compromising.

>
>Compromising with these democrats is like mixing your scoop of ice cream
>with their scoop of dog shit.
>

The same thing can be said about these republicans.

It can't all be one way....either way.

[John B.]

On May 10, 2:04 pm, Don Kirkman <dons...@charter.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 May 2012 08:09:24 -0400, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:

> >In article <wZFqr.1676$3y3....@newsfe20.iad>, NoTha...@NoSpam.com
> >says...
>
> >> wrote in messagenews:tv6mq7p0co3pitlhl...@4ax.com...

> >> I doubt moderate Indiana voters will take BAR's position
>
> >It isn't my position, it is Mourdock's position. Please do try and keep
> >up with current events.
>
> Quoth BAR:  "I like Mourdock's line about compromising is when the
> Democrats accept the conservative Republican's position. "
> --
> Don Kirkman

> dons...@charter.net

If that's how Mourdock wants to play, he won't get anything done.

[Moderate]

William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> In article <13Rqr.3614$8L6....@newsfe07.iad>,
> "Frank Ketchum"
>>

>> "There" teeth? From the professor who is always condescendingly critical of
>> everyone's English?
>
> Actually from the professor who apologizes for not thinking it worth the
> time to proof read when the topic is so banal.

If it weren't for double standards you would have none.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

As a matter of fact I really don't know any extremists personally,
from either side and not looking to meet any.

It's an extreme position when you state that voting the party line
only 75% of the time is not acceptable.

[Alan Baker]

In article <a12hkk...@mid.individual.net>,

I think he's one...

...because he has just declared that automatically any idea or proposal
put forward by someone who isn't a Republican is wrong.

[james]

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
news:alangbaker-26F6F...@news.shawcable.net...

And you, Asshat, are neither a Republican nor a Democrat. But
definitely a hypocrite. Best to stick with the politics of your own
shithole, socialist country.

--
>Alan Baker
>2252 West 1st Ave.

[james]

>"Alan Baker" wrote in message

>news:alangbaker-CF15B...@news.shawcable.net...

>And that is the position of an extremist idiot.

Like you.

--
Alan Baker
2252 West 1st Ave.

[james]

"Alan Baker" wrote in message

news:alangbaker-43B77...@news.shawcable.net...

In article <GLQqr.14$Nh...@newsfe17.iad>,
"Frank Ketchum" <nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:

> "Kenn Smith" <grizzl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:14136-4FA...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
> > Actually, Senator Lugar was/is a pretty staunch conservative. I
> > think
> > his most recent rate by The American Conservative Union (I think I
> > have
> > that name correct) was a 77. Agreeing with the conservative
> > positon
> > more than 3/4 of the time doesn't make him a liberal.
>
> I didn't call him a liberal. However getting it wrong a full 23
> percent of
> the time is not good enough considering our current situation.

>Simply assuming that any time one doesn't vote the party line is...

>...how to put this...

>...monumentally stupid.

Hmmmm.....like you

[John B.]

On May 10, 2:59 pm, "Frank Ketchum" <nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:
> <bkni...@conramp.net> wrote in message

>
> news:pvtnq7tsi605pgu55...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 10 May 2012 11:02:17 -0400, "Frank Ketchum"
> > <nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:
>

> >>"Kenn Smith" <grizzledb...@webtv.net> wrote in message

> >>news:14136-4FA...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
> >>> Actually, Senator Lugar was/is a pretty staunch conservative.  I think
> >>> his most recent rate by The American Conservative Union (I think I have
> >>> that name correct) was a 77.  Agreeing with the conservative positon
> >>> more than 3/4 of the time doesn't make him a liberal.
>
> >>I didn't call him a liberal.  However getting it wrong a full 23 percent
> >>of
> >>the time is not good enough considering our current situation.
>
> >>> Where he was different was that he would on occasion reach across the
> >>> isle to negotiate and compromise and was unfailingly civil.  He just
> >>> made the fatal mistake of losing touch with the electorate.
>
> >>T here is nothing wrong with being civil.  There is plenty wrong with
> >>compromising with the current political left.
>
> > /That statement is exactly what's wrong with right wing extremists.
> > You think only one way, and it ain't always right...as in correct.
>
> What's wrong is that there are far too many sitting in the middle wringing
> their hands about lack of compromise.  Thank God there are enough
> republicans refusing to compromise with this group of wild-eyed statists in
> congress.  This may be the most do-nothing congress in a long time and we
> are better off for it.
>
> Compromising with these democrats is like mixing your scoop of ice cream
> with their scoop of dog shit.

I would remind you that the House is under Republican control. Your
assessment of the state of Congress makes me think you're talking
about some other country.

[MNMikeW]

How many Dems do you see vote 25% of the time with the Repubs?

[Kenn Smith]

Well, voting the party line 100% of the time does save one a lot of
thinking and soul searching. You just take your marching orders from
the Speaker or Majority Leader (or whoever) and pull the lever.

In my mind those who hew to the no compromise and straight pary line
philosophy really don't understand the art of governing, which is what
our congress is supposed to be doing. I sit on the cty council of a
small city, 32,032 populaton. Our council has seven voting members and
a mayor and we are a multicultural mix; male and female, black,
hispanic, caucasian, some retired and some working. We work with a city
budget of just under $30M per year.

We bring seven perspectives to city issues, some of them close to polar
opposites. We somehow manage to work things out through discussion and
give and take. Our votes can range from 7-0 to 4-3 but everyone has the
opportunity to express their opinion and try to swing votes. It is done
civilly and usually congenially. Once the vote is taken it is history;
no grudges, no bad feelings, no repercussions. It is on to other
matters. I've been on the prevailing side of 4-3 votes and I've been in
the minority on some. Either way I'm likely to have a cup of coffee the
next day with one or two who voted the other way.

Our previous council didn't work that way. They fell into a 5-2 block
and the 5 rode roughshod over the two, sometimes to the detriment of the
city. So a recall petition was formed, an election was held and the
five were thrown out of office long before their terms expired. There
might be a cautionary tale for congress somewhere in there.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

How many times have I said that it goes both ways? I don't give those
democrats any slack either. Wrong is wrong.

[Frank Ketchum]

"Moderate" <nos...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:1382856411358371023.9...@news.aioe.org...

True that

[Carbon]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 09:43:36 -0500, MNMikeW wrote:
> Kenn Smith wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Moderate, I think you just made Loudon's and my point.
>> Rather than engage in rational dialog and search for a solution it is
>> immediate finger pointing and blame assigning - "Well, they started
>> it." If you've ever had to break up an arguement between two
>> adolescents it should sound familiar.
>

> Obama has done nothing but finger point and blame for the last three
> years. So much for the great uniter label.

Really? Then you should have lots of specific examples.

[Moderate]

I posted one yesterday.

[Horva...@net.net]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 12:19:54 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
wrote this crap:

>> Compromising with these democrats is like mixing your scoop of ice cream
>> with their scoop of dog shit.
>
>And that is the position of an extremist idiot.

You say that because you have the dog shit, and you like it.

Vote for Romney. Repeal the nightmares.

[Carbon]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 12:19:54 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <DeUqr.5403$h64....@newsfe13.iad>, "Frank Ketchum"
> <nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:
>> <bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
>> news:pvtnq7tsi605pgu55...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 10 May 2012 11:02:17 -0400, "Frank Ketchum"
>>> <nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:
>>>> "Kenn Smith" <grizzl...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:14136-4FA...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net...
>>>>

>>>>> Where he was different was that he would on occasion reach across
>>>>> the isle to negotiate and compromise and was unfailingly civil.
>>>>> He just made the fatal mistake of losing touch with the
>>>>> electorate.
>>>>
>>>> T here is nothing wrong with being civil. There is plenty wrong
>>>> with compromising with the current political left.
>>>>
>>>
>>> /That statement is exactly what's wrong with right wing extremists.
>>> You think only one way, and it ain't always right...as in correct.
>>
>> What's wrong is that there are far too many sitting in the middle
>> wringing their hands about lack of compromise. Thank God there are
>> enough republicans refusing to compromise with this group of
>> wild-eyed statists in congress. This may be the most do-nothing
>> congress in a long time and we are better off for it.
>>
>> Compromising with these democrats is like mixing your scoop of ice
>> cream with their scoop of dog shit.
>
> And that is the position of an extremist idiot.

I'd have to reluctantly agree. I don't often agree with Frank but I at
least thought he was capable of reason.

[Alan Baker]

In article <pan.2012.05...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>,

I know.

To stand there and say not just that voting the party line 77% of the
time isn't enough, but that you have to vote it 100% of the time
("However getting it wrong a full 23 percent of the time is not good
enough") just shows how bad the partisan fever has become.

And just to be clear for all you who are wildly partisan right-wingers,
I would say precisely the same if the parties were reversed.

[William Clark]

In article <1382856411358371023.9...@news.aioe.org>,

If it weren't for half wits, you wouldn't have any.

[William Clark]

In article <VEWqr.8807$br3....@newsfe10.iad>,

I'm not sure that really not giving a damn constitutes a double
standard, except in your world.

[BAR]

In article <040oq7d70tm058oat...@4ax.com>, donsno2
@charter.net says...

>
> On Thu, 10 May 2012 08:09:24 -0400, BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
>

> >In article <wZFqr.1676$3y3...@newsfe20.iad>, NoTh...@NoSpam.com
> >says...
> >>
> >> wrote in message news:tv6mq7p0co3pitlhl...@4ax.com...

>
> >> I doubt moderate Indiana voters will take BAR's position
> >
> >It isn't my position, it is Mourdock's position. Please do try and keep
> >up with current events.
>
> Quoth BAR: "I like Mourdock's line about compromising is when the
> Democrats accept the conservative Republican's position. "

Where did I say it was my position?

[Frank Ketchum]

"William Clark" <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message
news:clark-040947....@news.eternal-september.org...

In other words your blather isn't even worth reading yourself.

[BAR]

In article <14136-4FA...@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net>,
grizzl...@webtv.net says...

You should do a little bit of research on the current political climate
in Maryland and in Montgomery County. The legislature and senate are
controlled by delegates and senators form three primary areas. In
Montgomery county there is absolutely not opposition on the county
council or county executive.

The stated goal of the Maryland legislature with redistricting as a
result of the 2010 US Census was to get rid of the last remaining
Republican US representative to Congress.

You are free to express your dissatisfaction with one party rule in
Montgomery County Maryland and from the State of Maryland at any time.
However, I won't be holding my breath.

[BAR]

In article <clark-040947....@news.eternal-september.org>,
cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu says...

Is that the new excuse!

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article

>
> To stand there and say not just that voting the party line 77% of the
> time isn't enough, but that you have to vote it 100% of the time
> ("However getting it wrong a full 23 percent of the time is not good
> enough") just shows how bad the partisan fever has become.
>
> And just to be clear for all you who are wildly partisan right-wingers,
> I would say precisely the same if the parties were reversed.

Great. Obama followed the party line 96%.

[Alan Baker]

In article <965299655358392763.35...@news.aioe.org>,

OK. But you're kind of missing the point...

...however that comes as no surprise.

[William Clark]

In article <MPG.2a162ab...@news.giganews.com>,

In your case - yes. You are not worth a spell check.

[William Clark]

In article <nZYqr.3992$3y3....@newsfe20.iad>,

It's an amusing diversion, nothing more. But it's better informed than
what comes from your side.

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <965299655358392763.35...@news.aioe.org>,
> Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>>> In article
>>>
>>> To stand there and say not just that voting the party line 77% of the
>>> time isn't enough, but that you have to vote it 100% of the time
>>> ("However getting it wrong a full 23 percent of the time is not good
>>> enough") just shows how bad the partisan fever has become.
>>>
>>> And just to be clear for all you who are wildly partisan right-wingers,
>>> I would say precisely the same if the parties were reversed.
>>
>> Great. Obama followed the party line 96%.
>
> OK. But you're kind of missing the point...
>
> ...however that comes as no surprise.

Right. You are saying something precisely different when the parties are
reversed.

[Alan Baker]

In article <1502215879358396170.2...@news.aioe.org>,

No. I'm not.

I'm saying that I would decry as loudly a democrat complaining about
another democrat who wasn't voting the straight party line and I mean it.

That isn't what happened in what you stated.

[Don Kirkman]

Where did you renounce it or criticize it?
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net