Laville wins mini RSG-ATLANTA
"R&B"
(against yours truly) in Saturday's "mini RSG-ATLANTA," played at legendary
North Fulton Golf Course, one of Atlanta's city-owned municipal courses.
North Fulton is where Bobby Jones used to stage an annual exhibition match
with his buddies the week before The Masters. So the course, which is a
fabulous layout, has some history. Too bad American Golf, which manages the
course for the City of Atlanta, keeps it in such a chronic state of sorry
disrepair. But that's fairly typical for American Golf, whose only priority
is to pack as many people as possible on to their golf courses without much
regard for maintaining any sort of quality control to ensure that golfers
have an enjoyable experience. As a friend of mine who once ran Arnold
Palmer's course management firm told me years ago, American Golf is known to
most people in the golf business as "the bottom-feeders of the industry." I
have certainly found them to live up (or down) to that billing at nearly
every one of their courses for as long as I can remember.
They did re-do the greens a couple years ago at North Fulton, and they are
better. But that's not saying much. Prior to the renovation, they were
among the worst greens I've ever seen in my life.
But the course was convenient to where David was staying, and we both
enjoyed the day. The scenery was nice, as the course is surrounded by a
jogging trail, and all the southern lovelies were out in their jogging
shorts. What a great country. :-)
Laville struggled mightily on the front nine, barely edging me by a stroke.
But he pulled it together on the back and played pretty well, as my wheels
fell completely off.
I pretty much sucked the whole day. Like I have the last few times I've
played.
The only highlight for me was parring the 18th, which, in my opinion, is the
toughest finishing hole in the city. A 440-yard par four (second shot plays
uphill). After David hit his drive, I remarked, "that's the best drive I've
ever seen anyone hit on this hole." And it was. Then I stepped up and
outdrove him by a few inches. My 3-wood second shot was just enough to
creep on to the front edge of the green, pin high. It was the only time
I've ever parred the hole. (The birdie putt curled off sharply just as it
reached the hole -- boy, I would love to have birdied that monster. But
I've never met a tap-in par I didn't like.)
It was great to see David. He hasn't been playing much more than I have in
recent years, so his game is a bit more raggedy than I've seen it in the
past. (Mine detriorated beyond the "raggedy" stage quite a while back.)
But when he got into a rhythm on the back nine, it was the same ol' David
Laville I was used to seeing play golf. He can still smoke it down the
fairway.
North Fulton is a tough golf course, and he navigated his way around it
about as well as anyone I've seen.
I, on the other hand, did not. Except for that one hole. And maybe a
couple of others.
You will notice I have refrained from sharing my final tally. Let's just
say I have some serious work to do to get my game into any kind of shape for
Summer.
Randy
John van der Pflum
<noneofyou...@all.com> wrote:
>David Laville fired a more-impressive-than-it-sounds 86 to take top honors
>(against yours truly) in Saturday's "mini RSG-ATLANTA," played at legendary
>North Fulton Golf Course, one of Atlanta's city-owned municipal courses.
>
... snippage............
Sounds like a good time, Randy.
I still have fond memories of that round you, David, Ken Pitts, and I
played on Sunday at one of the RSG Atlantas.
--
jvdp
Nobody fears the Chopra
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
Ben
> David Laville fired a more-impressive-than-it-sounds 86 to take top honors
> (against yours truly) in Saturday's "mini RSG-ATLANTA," played at legendary
> North Fulton Golf Course, one of Atlanta's city-owned municipal courses.
>
> North Fulton is where Bobby Jones used to stage an annual exhibition match
> with his buddies the week before The Masters. So the course, which is a
> fabulous layout, has some history. Too bad American Golf, which manages the
> course for the City of Atlanta, keeps it in such a chronic state of sorry
> disrepair. But that's fairly typical for American Golf, whose only priority
> is to pack as many people as possible on to their golf courses without much
> regard for maintaining any sort of quality control to ensure that golfers
> have an enjoyable experience. As a friend of mine who once ran Arnold
> Palmer's course management firm told me years ago, American Golf is known to
> most people in the golf business as "the bottom-feeders of the industry." I
> have certainly found them to live up (or down) to that billing at nearly
> every one of their courses for as long as I can remember.
Shame that the ATL let AGC take over a course with the tradition of
that one. They are definitely the worst in the biz. They run quite a
few in the Bay Area, all of which are to be avoided like the plague.
From Tilden in Berkeley to Summitpointe in Milpitas to Seascape in
Aptos, they all exhibit that same characteristic you describe -
parcels of land, sometimes rather scenic, that are barely passable as
golf courses. For fuck sake, now that I think about it, there is a
POND on the driving range at Summitpointe. The driving range at
Monarch Bay is painted cement. What is that?!?! Range balls are
invariably cut, chipped, dirty, old, etc. Anyway, they are truly a
boil on the ass of the golf course management industry.
dugjustdug
wiht a fellow RSG'r.
"R&B"
news:703fb23d-0d26-40c1...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
------------
For what it's worth, Eastlake CC, site of the TOUR Championship each year,
and a course that won't be confused with a shithole like most of the
American Golf courses can be, also has a pond on the driving range. In
fact, the driving range, which can fit all of maybe four players at a time
(which presents its own challenges whenever the TOUR plays there) has a
forced carry over water of about 100 yards. Very strange for a driving
range. Although I suspect the pros don't have much trouble carrying the
"hazard."
The members, on the other hand, probably deposit balls there every day.
Randy
Ben
> Shame that the ATL let AGC take over a course with the tradition of
> that one. They are definitely the worst in the biz. They run quite a
> few in the Bay Area, all of which are to be avoided like the plague.
> From Tilden in Berkeley to Summitpointe in Milpitas to Seascape in
> Aptos, they all exhibit that same characteristic you describe -
> parcels of land, sometimes rather scenic, that are barely passable as
> golf courses. For fuck sake, now that I think about it, there is a
> POND on the driving range at Summitpointe. The driving range at
> Monarch Bay is painted cement. What is that?!?! Range balls are
> invariably cut, chipped, dirty, old, etc. Anyway, they are truly a
> boil on the ass of the golf course management industry.
>
> ------------
>
> For what it's worth, Eastlake CC, site of the TOUR Championship each year,
> and a course that won't be confused with a shithole like most of the
> American Golf courses can be, also has a pond on the driving range. In
> fact, the driving range, which can fit all of maybe four players at a time
> (which presents its own challenges whenever the TOUR plays there) has a
> forced carry over water of about 100 yards. Very strange for a driving
> range. Although I suspect the pros don't have much trouble carrying the
> "hazard."
>
> The members, on the other hand, probably deposit balls there every day.
>
> Randy- Hide quoted text -
Yeah, I remember the driving range at East Lake being pretty tight by
TOUR standards. BTW, are you going to Sugarloaf this weekend? We
were given anyday clubhouse tickets by RIM (Blackberry), so I am
headed over to play Bear's Best on Saturday and then to the AT&T on
Sunday. BTW, does this mean what it sounds like; access to the
clubhouse? Or just some corporate tent? The rep didn't know...
"R&B"
-------------------
Honestly, I don't know how they do the tickets and passes at the AT&T. An
"anyday clubhouse ticket" could mean different things. I suspect it's
access to the public areas of the clubhouse, or maybe there's a "clubhouse
season ticket (all week) package" that gets you into various areas of the
clubhouse and/or a "clubhouse" tent or two. Who knows. But I'm sure
there'll be someone there to stop you if you go wandering into an area where
your pass doesn't give you access to go.
And yes, I'll be there. For the third year running, I'm doing the
tournament for 790 The Zone. It should be fun.
TPC at Sugarloaf is a great golf course that nobody outside Atlanta seems to
know about. One of the very best TPC courses. It was in my top 5 courses
among all those regular TOUR venues that I got to see in person the year I
was traveling with the TOUR. Not as picturesque now with as many houses
having been built on it since it first opened in '97, though. And a bitch
to walk, as a fan or a player. They actually have to shuttle the players
and caddies from the 9th green to the 10th tee by cart because it's such a
long, steep walk across the street where there's traffic into and out of the
tournament. Kinda weird.
Randy
Gordo
""R&B"" <noneofyou...@all.com> wrote in message
news:1KOdnd-o8t244bXV...@giganews.com...
> David Laville fired a more-impressive-than-it-sounds 86 to take top honors
> (against yours truly) in Saturday's "mini RSG-ATLANTA," played at
> legendary North Fulton Golf Course, one of Atlanta's city-owned municipal
> courses.
>
Sounds like y'all had a good time. I've heard what a horrible management
company American Golf is, but the only experiences that I have with them is
in the Phoenix area. My favorite course to play there is Superstition
Springs. Completely enjoy it from start to finish. There is a couple of
other courses in the Valley that they run that they do a better than average
job of also.
curtjester1
> David Laville fired a more-impressive-than-it-sounds 86 to take top honors
> (against yours truly) in Saturday's "mini RSG-ATLANTA," played at legendary
> North Fulton Golf Course, one of Atlanta's city-owned municipal courses.
>
minutes he'll have David shootin' 80!
CJ
Greenskeeper
I am astouded by the blanket statements you make.
I have seen some very fine courses managed by American Golf. In fact,
they have turned around many a course, some would not be here today if it
wasn't for their intervention and professional management.
The city course you speak of, fairly typical of most city courses.
Running golf courses is not a priority I am sure for Atlanta, as for any
large city government. A management company is hired to run the course
the best it can, but it can only do as well as the funding it receives.
What would this course be like if it was operated solely by the city?. A
whole lot worse most likely. There were days where city courses were in
excellent shape and very well managed by local goverments. This is
seldom the case today, although there are some notable exceptions. This
is why in many cases, a management company is contracted to take over the
daily operations of the facility. They might not always do a great job,
but often a good or satisfactory one, and they often do the best they can
with what they have to work with.
I have played a number of American Golf courses in the Southwest, and many
of them are spectacular. Have had many enjoyable experiences there.
Think again before you throw out statements as you have. People are
reading this, including maybe someone at American Golf!
The Greenskeeper
_____________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
annika1980
>
> Think again before you throw out statements as you have. People are
> reading this, including maybe someone at American Golf!
>
You mean someone besides you?
It isn't Randy's fault that American Golf has such a bad rep in the
Atlanta area.
As for your generalities about municipalities running local courses,
our city runs two golf courses and they have improved tremendously
since the city took them over. This is because the city has the staff
and the equipment to maintain them properly.
Bobby Knight
<ab0...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>On May 12 2008 1:19 PM, "R&B" wrote:
>> Too bad American Golf, which manages the
>> course for the City of Atlanta, keeps it in such a chronic state of sorry
>> disrepair. But that's fairly typical for American Golf, whose only priority
>> is to pack as many people as possible on to their golf courses without much
>> regard for maintaining any sort of quality control to ensure that golfers
>> have an enjoyable experience. As a friend of mine who once ran Arnold
>> Palmer's course management firm told me years ago, American Golf is known to
>> most people in the golf business as "the bottom-feeders of the industry." I
>> have certainly found them to live up (or down) to that billing at nearly
>> every one of their courses for as long as I can remember.
>>
<clip>
>> Randy
>
>I am astouded by the blanket statements you make.
>
>I have seen some very fine courses managed by American Golf. In fact,
>they have turned around many a course, some would not be here today if it
>wasn't for their intervention and professional management.
>
>The city course you speak of, fairly typical of most city courses.
>Running golf courses is not a priority I am sure for Atlanta, as for any
>large city government. A management company is hired to run the course
>the best it can, but it can only do as well as the funding it receives.
>What would this course be like if it was operated solely by the city?. A
>whole lot worse most likely. There were days where city courses were in
>excellent shape and very well managed by local goverments. This is
>seldom the case today, although there are some notable exceptions. This
>is why in many cases, a management company is contracted to take over the
>daily operations of the facility. They might not always do a great job,
>but often a good or satisfactory one, and they often do the best they can
>with what they have to work with.
>
>I have played a number of American Golf courses in the Southwest, and many
>of them are spectacular. Have had many enjoyable experiences there.
>
>Think again before you throw out statements as you have. People are
>reading this, including maybe someone at American Golf!
>
>The Greenskeeper
One should worry that someone from American Golf reads this? What are
they gonna do?
Here in the Dallas area they have three courses that I know of; The
Tribute, which is a great layout and generally in good shape. Buffalo
Creek, and Waterview...both just ok in my opinion.
Sure, they have some great courses, some good courses and a LOT of bad
ones. In my experience, AG is not considered highly.
--
___,
\o
|
/ \
.
"Someone likes every shot"!
bk
The_Professor
I'm no fan of American Golf's form of management, especially the tee
time requirement, which would preclude me from being a member of an
American Golf run course, but a lot of them are OK to play if you have
a group looking for a place to play. As I recall, Bradshaw Farms is an
American Golf operation in the Altlanta area, is it not. Certainly an
OK place to play golf for the money.
As to munis with respect to such things, the muni is as good as the
bureaucrat in charge wants it to be. The one in charge of a local muni
here didn't think much of the golf course, just a cash cow, and it
went downhill. A new guy came in who thinks the golf course is a big
deal, and now its looking good again, for what it is. They don't have
to make money, so it's a matter of personal style with a lot of munis.
Ben
> I have played a number of American Golf courses in the Southwest, and many
> of them are spectacular. Have had many enjoyable experiences there.
Lucky you. To a fault, every Bay Area course run by AGC is poorly
maintained and the facilities, outside of possibly Santa Clara G&T are
miserable. I have no experience with AGC outside of the Bay, so
that's all I'm qualified to comment on.
> Think again before you throw out statements as you have. People are
> reading this, including maybe someone at American Golf!
So? Maybe they'll read this and get their act together.
"R&B"
news:6gpuf5x...@recgroups.com...
I stand by my statements.
No less of an authority on such matters than two business associates -- one
the former head of Arnold Palmer's golf course management company, and
another with ties to people at the highest levels of golf's worldwide
organizations -- have both told me the same thing: that American Golf is
known to virtually everyone within the golf world as "the bottom-feeders of
the golf industry." Their words, not mine.
My personal experience with American Golf, which dates back nearly two
decades, would seem to confirm this assessment.
While I will certainly grant you that much depends on the local people at
each individual course, my overall experience with American Golf suggests
that they are interested only in profit -- and if that's at the expense of
making golf a pleasurable experience for their customers, then so be it.
They'll pack as many people on the course as possible, even if it means
6-hour rounds. They'll avoid doing any more maintenance than is absolutely
necessary. And on more than one occasion, I have found that they have
downgraded the facility, solely in the interest of reducing maintenance
costs.
While I can't say I blame them for being mindful of cost controls, I have
yet to see how their efforts in this area result in anything BUT a less
enjoyable golf experience for the customer.
Furthermore, I've found at most American Golf courses that their staffs are
generally rude and/or indifferent toward the customer, and that they treat
their customers like cattle, with virtually no emphasis whatsoever on
customer service.
That you would assume I mindlessly threw these arguments out there without
thinking them through thoroughly and knowing full well what I was saying may
say more about YOUR modus operandi than it does mine.
Again, I stand by what I said.
Randy
"R&B"
news:6a2917d0-1cec-4a19...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
-------------------
American Golf has a bad rep in more areas than just Atlanta.
They were the pits in Dallas/Fort Worth when I was living there, and their
staffs were the rudest I have ever encountered in all my years of playing
golf.
So bad was my experience at one American Golf facility that when I attended
the annual Golf-O-Rama event (that wasn't the name of it, but I'm talking
about the big golf show that would take over one of the area convention
halls each year), I pulled one of the American Golf people aside at the show
to tell them about it. In an effort to make things right with me, they gave
me a pass for a free round of golf, good any weekday at any American Golf
facility.
So when I showed up at one of their facilities in the Dallas Fort Worth area
to redeem it, I was told that the pass was good "on weekdays only."
"Yes, I know. It's Friday," I said.
"And Friday is a weekend," I was informed by the guy.
When I explained how this free round was an attempt to soothe sore feelings
toward American Golf and that his refusal to honor it on a Friday, which on
everyone's calendar I know of is a weekday, was not making matters any
better. He then proceeded to chew my ass out for "making a scene." I was
NOT making a scene at all. But as he raised his voice to emphasize his
position, he certainly did make a scene...in front of a clubhouse full of
customers (two of whom saw what was happening and left).
I've found this type of treatment of their customers to be more the rule
than the exception.
American Golf is the worst.
And just about everyone in the golf business knows it.
Randy
Howard Brazee
<annik...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>It isn't Randy's fault that American Golf has such a bad rep in the
>Atlanta area.
>As for your generalities about municipalities running local courses,
>our city runs two golf courses and they have improved tremendously
>since the city took them over. This is because the city has the staff
>and the equipment to maintain them properly.
It has a bad rep in the Denver area as well. I've played at courses
that aren't that bad - and one that is very good. But the one that's
close is only good if I'm in the first foursome, as they have tee
times too close together.
Tom Yost
wrote:
>On Thu, 15 May 2008 15:19:18 -0700, "Greenskeeper"
><ab0...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
>>...
>>
>>I have played a number of American Golf courses in the Southwest, and many
>>of them are spectacular. Have had many enjoyable experiences there.
>>
>>Think again before you throw out statements as you have. People are
>>reading this, including maybe someone at American Golf!
>>
>>
There are several courses in the Phoenix area managed by American Golf
and from personal experience I can say that during the 90's, many of
them suffered from what seemed to be minimal maintenance budgets.
In recent years however, this seems to have been rectified, and in the
case of Superstition Springs, as John mentioned, it is now in top
shape.
AG seems to now have a management partner called Eagle Golf - not sure
what the relationship is. Maybe if someone from American Golf is
reading this, they can explain?
Tom
MoiMoi
t...@bloodyvikings.com says...
How you know this, Tom?
No mention of this on either American Golf or Eagle sites.
Just curious since Eagle manages my "home course" muni.
MM
Tom Yost
wrote:
>In article <sumt24t0hoa07nk4q...@4ax.com>,
>t...@bloodyvikings.com says...
>>
>> AG seems to now have a management partner called Eagle Golf - not sure
>> what the relationship is. Maybe if someone from American Golf is
>> reading this, they can explain?
>>
>>
>> Tom
>
>How you know this, Tom?
>No mention of this on either American Golf or Eagle sites.
>Just curious since Eagle manages my "home course" muni.
>
I looked again and realize I may have misread about the partnership.
First, I went to the American Golf site and was confused because they
only listed one course in Arizona. I figured they must have sold off
most of them so then I went to Superstition Springs' web site where I
found the Eagle Golf logo. I clicked thru to the Eagle website and
found this on the front page: http://www.eaglgolf.com
"Eagle Golf has partnered with American Golf Corporation to provide a
value-added golf program for private club Members. The Eagle Golf
program is called the Elite Club..."
I think I must have stopped reading after "Eagle Golf has partnered
with American Golf Corporation..."
So you are right... beyond the Elite club partnership, there is no
mention of business relationship.
Interesting to note that most of the golf courses in AZ that are
managed by Eagle were formerly American Golf.
Tom
MoiMoi
t...@bloodyvikings.com says...
Ah, you did better research than moi, though. I didn't catch that
American Golf reference on the Eagle site at all.
> Interesting to note that most of the golf courses in AZ that are
> managed by Eagle were formerly American Golf.
Well, there DOES seem to be a relationship of sorts between them.
Good sleuthing.
MM
David Laville
<nowhammy...@bite.org> wrote:
>Sounds like a good time, Randy.
>
>I still have fond memories of that round you, David, Ken Pitts, and I
>played on Sunday at one of the RSG Atlantas.
Hi John. I really wanted to attend RSG Cincinnati last year but it
was a bad weekend. This year I am already making plans to be there.
Keeping my fingers crossed nothing interferes.
David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
David Laville
<noneofyou...@all.com> wrote:
>David Laville fired a more-impressive-than-it-sounds 86 to take top honors
>(against yours truly) in Saturday's "mini RSG-ATLANTA," played at legendary
>North Fulton Golf Course, one of Atlanta's city-owned municipal courses.
It was great seeing Randy again and playing with a "golfer". Despite
how much he whines and moans about his game he knows how to "play the
game". What adds up his score is the every now and than errant shot
which for him after rolling or bouncing seems to find the worst
possible spot. Even after dropping from an unplayable lie he's faced
with the most diffucult of shots. If he's in the fairway he'll make a
par more often than not.
>North Fulton is where Bobby Jones used to stage an annual exhibition match
>with his buddies the week before The Masters. So the course, which is a
>fabulous layout, has some history. Too bad American Golf, which manages the
>course for the City of Atlanta, keeps it in such a chronic state of sorry
>disrepair.
This is the type of course I generally play so I felt like a fish in
water. I loved the course not only because of it's history but also
it's layout and geography (rolling fairways, elevated tee boxes. etc).
>But the course was convenient to where David was staying, and we both
>enjoyed the day. The scenery was nice, as the course is surrounded by a
>jogging trail, and all the southern lovelies were out in their jogging
>shorts. What a great country. :-)
That's another reason I enjoyed the course.
>Laville struggled mightily on the front nine, barely edging me by a stroke.
>But he pulled it together on the back and played pretty well, as my wheels
>fell completely off. I pretty much sucked the whole day. Like I have the last
>few times I've played.
Don't believe him. He played fine. If it weren't for a few errant
shots he hit from being out of practice he would have smoked me.
>The only highlight for me was parring the 18th, which, in my opinion, is the
>toughest finishing hole in the city. A 440-yard par four (second shot plays
>uphill). After David hit his drive, I remarked, "that's the best drive I've
>ever seen anyone hit on this hole." And it was. Then I stepped up and
>outdrove him by a few inches. My 3-wood second shot was just enough to
>creep on to the front edge of the green, pin high. It was the only time
>I've ever parred the hole. (The birdie putt curled off sharply just as it
>reached the hole -- boy, I would love to have birdied that monster. But
>I've never met a tap-in par I didn't like.)
As Dr. Rotella says "this shows your potential".
>It was great to see David. He hasn't been playing much more than I have in
>recent years, so his game is a bit more raggedy than I've seen it in the
>past.
When I got back home I entered my round in my handicap program and
noticed this was the 5th round I played this year.
>You will notice I have refrained from sharing my final tally. Let's just
>say I have some serious work to do to get my game into any kind of shape for
>Summer.
One trip to the driving range should take care of that.
BTW, I want those FT-5's. Those are some sweet woods! 8-)
John van der Pflum
wrote:
>On Mon, 12 May 2008 15:25:42 -0400, John van der Pflum
><nowhammy...@bite.org> wrote:
>
>>Sounds like a good time, Randy.
>>
>>I still have fond memories of that round you, David, Ken Pitts, and I
>>played on Sunday at one of the RSG Atlantas.
>
>Hi John. I really wanted to attend RSG Cincinnati last year but it
>was a bad weekend. This year I am already making plans to be there.
>Keeping my fingers crossed nothing interferes.
That would be great! I hope you can make it.
Yikes -- I had better get moving on setting everything up!