George Zimmerman's medical report

[Dene]

"closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."

Hmmm....self inflicted or......
A rush to judgment?

BTW....George's great-grandparent is black. If Obama had a son, he's
sorta look like George.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532#.T7Per1Iq_mU

[MNMikeW]

And Trayvons autopsy shows injuries on his knuckles.

[Carbon]

These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the night
he killed Trayvon Martin.

[Moderate]

I hadn't heard that. I wonder who is leaking evidence?

[Moderate]

It is evidence. It may have been used as proof to delay the initial arrest.

[Dene]

On May 16, 10:25 am, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
> > "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> > to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> > fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
>
> > Hmmm....self inflicted or......  A rush to judgment?
>
> > BTW....George's great-grandparent is black.  If Obama had a son, he's
> > sorta look like George.
>

> >http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...

>
> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the night
> he killed Trayvon Martin.

What do they prove, Carbs?

-Greg

[Alan Baker]

In article
<3ad66155-ab85-4e9e...@e9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>,

They don't actually prove anything.

They SUGGEST that there was an altercation.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

[Frank Ketchum]

"Dene" <gds...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3ad66155-ab85-4e9e...@e9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com...

- - -


They prove far more about Carbon (and his ilk) than anything else. Carbon
had his mind made up the second he heard the doctored 911 tape and nothing
else is likely to change what he thinks.

[MNMikeW]

It's public.

[MNMikeW]

That will be for the judge and jury to decide.

[MNMikeW]

This should be good.

[Dene]

On May 16, 10:57 am, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> Carbon wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
>
> >> "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> >> to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> >> fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
>
> >> Hmmm....self inflicted or......  A rush to judgment?
>
> >> BTW....George's great-grandparent is black.  If Obama had a son, he's
> >> sorta look like George.
>

> >>http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...

>
> > These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the night
> > he killed Trayvon Martin.
>
> That will be for the judge and jury to decide.

If it gets that far. Frankly, with this report, I'm surprised there
are charges.

-Greg

[MNMikeW]

It could very well be dismissed.

[Alan Baker]

In article
<afd74764-ff3a-4c8f...@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

Why?

Does evidence of an altercation prove that Zimmerman was the victim?

[Alan Baker]

In article <a1i862...@mid.individual.net>,

Why don't you tell us what you think it proves, Mike?

[William Clark]

In article <alangbaker-C4498...@news.shawcable.net>,

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:

> In article
> <3ad66155-ab85-4e9e...@e9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>,
> Dene <gds...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 16, 10:25 am, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
> > > > "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> > > > to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> > > > fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
> > >
> > > > Hmmm....self inflicted or......  A rush to judgment?
> > >
> > > > BTW....George's great-grandparent is black.  If Obama had a son, he's
> > > > sorta look like George.
> > >
> > > >http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...
> > >
> > > These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the night
> > > he killed Trayvon Martin.
> >
> > What do they prove, Carbs?
> >
> > -Greg
>
> They don't actually prove anything.
>
> They SUGGEST that there was an altercation.

Maybe, but he didn't go to the doctor until the day after killing
Martin. A lot can happen in twelve hours.

[John B.]

On May 16, 2:34 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article
> <afd74764-ff3a-4c8f-a6e0-2f41ff7a7...@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Dene <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On May 16, 10:57 am, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > Carbon wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
>
> > > >> "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> > > >> to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> > > >> fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
>
> > > >> Hmmm....self inflicted or...... A rush to judgment?
>
> > > >> BTW....George's great-grandparent is black. If Obama had a son, he's
> > > >> sorta look like George.
>
> > > >>http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...
>
> > > > These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the night
> > > > he killed Trayvon Martin.
>
> > > That will be for the judge and jury to decide.
>
> > If it gets that far.  Frankly, with this report, I'm surprised there
> > are charges.
>
> > -Greg
>
> Why?
>
> Does evidence of an altercation prove that Zimmerman was the victim?
>

The evidence that Trayvon beat his vigilante punk ass before he shot
him allows Zimmerman to make a strong case for a justifiable homicide
under the stand your ground law.

[John B.]

On May 16, 3:07 pm, William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-
state.edu> wrote:
> In article <alangbaker-C4498E.10402516052...@news.shawcable.net>,

>  Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article

> > <3ad66155-ab85-4e9e-9b6d-fbcd028fc...@e9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com>,

> >  Dene <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 16, 10:25 am, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
> > > > > "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> > > > > to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> > > > > fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
>
> > > > > Hmmm....self inflicted or...... A rush to judgment?
>
> > > > > BTW....George's great-grandparent is black. If Obama had a son, he's
> > > > > sorta look like George.
>
> > > > >http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...
>
> > > > These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the night
> > > > he killed Trayvon Martin.
>
> > > What do they prove, Carbs?
>
> > > -Greg
>
> > They don't actually prove anything.
>
> > They SUGGEST that there was an altercation.
>
> Maybe, but he didn't go to the doctor until the day after killing
> Martin. A lot can happen in twelve hours.

He was in police custody for five hours.

[Loudon Briggs]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:

Thank you, everybody... you won bet for me!

I posted a golf story on this Group... mentioned "golf" in the
title... and bet my son that there would be fewer than 4 responses.

There was one (1) response. What a shithouse this rec-sport.golf group
has become. I'm sure nobody cares but, I'm gone!
--

Loudon R. Briggs lar...@bbz.net Phoenix, AZ

"How Can You Not Like A Game Where It's Okay To
Get Teed Off, Tote A Six-Iron, Shoot Birdies,
and If You're Under Par It's A Great Day!"

(from "Frank & Ernest" by Bob Thaves -- used with permission)

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article
>

> Why?
>
> Does evidence of an altercation prove that Zimmerman was the victim?

Martin's autopsy showed injury to his knuckles and a bullet hole in his
chest. No other injuries.

[Don Kirkman]

One possible explanation is that someone in the crowd beat Zimmerman
up after he shot Martin. I've never seen or heard any evidence for or
against that possibility. That is for the police, DA, judge, and jury
to decide.
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 13:02:29 -0700, Loudon Briggs <lar...@bbz.net>
wrote:

>Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>Thank you, everybody... you won bet for me!
>
>I posted a golf story on this Group... mentioned "golf" in the
>title... and bet my son that there would be fewer than 4 responses.
>
>There was one (1) response. What a shithouse this rec-sport.golf group
>has become. I'm sure nobody cares but, I'm gone!

I read and enjoyed your golf story Loudon but although it was a
stunner didn't think that it required a response.

But...you're right about RSG, it hasn't been a golf forum for years.

Of course those of us that have enjoyed your posts here care if you
leave.

BK

[MNMikeW]

Do you honestly think someone in the "crowd" would attempt to beat up a
guy who just shot someone? Really?

[MNMikeW]

Zimmerman must play a pretty mean game of bloody knuckles.

[kenpitts]

On May 16, 4:54 pm, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 13:02:29 -0700, Loudon Briggs <lar...@bbz.net>
> wrote:
>

> >Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> >Thank you, everybody... you won bet for me!
>
> >I posted a golf story on this Group... mentioned "golf" in the
> >title... and bet my son that there would be fewer than 4 responses.
>
> >There was one (1) response. What a shithouse this rec-sport.golf group
> >has become. I'm sure nobody cares but, I'm gone!
>
> I read and enjoyed your golf story Loudon but although it was a
> stunner didn't think that it required  a response.
>
> But...you're right about RSG, it hasn't been a golf forum for years.
>
>  Of course those of us that have enjoyed your posts here care if you
> leave.
>
> BK

You're as much to blame as anyone Bobby.

Ken

[kenpitts]

On May 16, 12:56 pm, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> Moderate wrote:
> > MNMikeW<mnmiik...@aol.com>  wrote:

> >> Dene wrote:
> >>> "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> >>> to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> >>> fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
>
> >>> Hmmm....self inflicted or......
> >>> A rush to judgment?
>
> >>> BTW....George's great-grandparent is black.  If Obama had a son, he's
> >>> sorta look like George.
>

> >>>http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...

>
> >> And Trayvons autopsy shows injuries on his knuckles.
>
> > I hadn't heard that. I wonder who is leaking evidence?
>
> It's public.

And the media is refusing to report black on white crime.

Ken

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/299918/censored-race-war-thomas-sowell#

[Carbon]

If he had those injuries when he was seen by the EMTs the night of the
killing, they would be evidence that there was an altercation. Which was
pretty much a given anyway.

They really don't say anything about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

OK. That's fair.

Now take your part of the responsibility or shut up.

[kenpitts]

Stick it up your ass, grandpa.

Ken

[Carbon]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 13:49:17 -0400, Frank Ketchum wrote:
> "Dene" <gds...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:3ad66155-ab85-4e9e...@e9g2000pbh.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 16, 10:25 am, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
>>>
>>>> "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two
>>>> lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day
>>>> after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm....self inflicted or...... A rush to judgment?
>>>>
>>>> BTW....George's great-grandparent is black. If Obama had a son,
>>>> he's sorta look like George.
>>>>
>>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...
>>>
>>> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the
>>> night he killed Trayvon Martin.
>>
>> What do they prove, Carbs?
>

> They prove far more about Carbon (and his ilk) than anything else.
> Carbon had his mind made up the second he heard the doctored 911 tape
> and nothing else is likely to change what he thinks.

I haven't listened to the doctored 911 tape. I pretty much left that one
on the floor once I found out it had been edited.

But don't let that stop you.

[Carbon]

> You're as much to blame as anyone Bobby.

And where do you and your endless screeds about Tiger and politics fit in?

[Don Kirkman]

Hear! Hear!
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net

[Carbon]

How do you know the prosecution didn't have the medical report?

[Carbon]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:33 -0700, John B. wrote:
> On May 16, 2:34 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
>> In article
>> <afd74764-ff3a-4c8f-a6e0-2f41ff7a7...@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
>>  Dene <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> On May 16, 10:57 am, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Carbon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the
>>>>> night he killed Trayvon Martin.
>>>>
>>>> That will be for the judge and jury to decide.
>>>
>>> If it gets that far.  Frankly, with this report, I'm surprised there
>>> are charges.
>>

>> Why?
>>
>> Does evidence of an altercation prove that Zimmerman was the victim?
>>
> The evidence that Trayvon beat his vigilante punk ass before he shot
> him allows Zimmerman to make a strong case for a justifiable homicide
> under the stand your ground law.

Would this be the case if it was found that Zimmerman started it?

[bkn...@conramp.net]

Just as I thought. You accept no responsibility for anything, but
whine when you're called on it. Thanks for affirming my decision
about you. Bellomy is right.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On 16 May 2012 22:35:14 GMT, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>

wrote:

>On Wed, 16 May 2012 15:08:44 -0700, kenpitts wrote:
>> On May 16, 4:54 pm, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:

>>> I read and enjoyed your golf story Loudon but although it was a
>>> stunner didn't think that it required  a response.
>>>
>>> But...you're right about RSG, it hasn't been a golf forum for years.
>>>
>>>  Of course those of us that have enjoyed your posts here care if you
>>> leave.
>>
>> You're as much to blame as anyone Bobby.
>
>And where do you and your endless screeds about Tiger and politics fit in?

You're kidding. It's always someone else with Ken. None of his rants
are ever causal.

[kenpitts]

On May 16, 12:25 pm, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
> > "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> > to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> > fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
>
> > Hmmm....self inflicted or......  A rush to judgment?
>
> > BTW....George's great-grandparent is black.  If Obama had a son, he's
> > sorta look like George.
>
> >http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...
>

> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the night
> he killed Trayvon Martin.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

I guess you'll assume this poster once again.

Ken

http://photobucket.com/images/See+no+evil%3B+Hear+no+evil%3B+Speak+no+evil/

[Carbon]

> http://photobucket.com/images/See+no+evil%3B+Hear+no+evil%3B+Speak+no+evil/

Ok, well, I'll type really slowly and you see if you can follow along:

This evidence suggests that there was an altercation. Nothing more. It
does not prove Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

If this doesn't come into focus for you, then I guess you just need to
think about it a little more.

[Moderate]

Well that is better than Carbon's and Baker's conspiracy theory, but not
much. There are witnesses and corroborating evidence, but go with the
least plausible.

Grade school, hahaha.

[Carbon]

I'm almost afraid to ask, but what conspiracy theory are you imagining
now?

[Alan Baker]

In article <kd18r7tkhdl9ph9df...@4ax.com>,

Loudon Briggs <lar...@bbz.net> wrote:

> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> Thank you, everybody... you won bet for me!
>
> I posted a golf story on this Group... mentioned "golf" in the
> title... and bet my son that there would be fewer than 4 responses.
>
> There was one (1) response. What a shithouse this rec-sport.golf group
> has become. I'm sure nobody cares but, I'm gone!

Loudon: when I have no comment to make--nothing to add to a discussion,
I say nothing.

Sorry you feel the way you feel, but it's a free country. :-(

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

[Alan Baker]

In article
<562d53d6-79f5-4512...@v10g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,

Translation: "I'm never responsible for anything! I always have an
excuse! I'm a victim! Waaaah!"

[Alan Baker]

In article <545696806358892197.72...@news.aioe.org>,

OK. So?

If you attack me and my defense injures you, does that give you the
right to shoot me?

[Alan Baker]

In article
<61fccf43-159e-47ed...@n16g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,

"John B." <john...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 16, 2:34 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <afd74764-ff3a-4c8f-a6e0-2f41ff7a7...@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  Dene <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > On May 16, 10:57 am, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:

> > > > Carbon wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
> >
> > > > >> "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> > > > >> to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> > > > >> fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
> >
> > > > >> Hmmm....self inflicted or...... A rush to judgment?
> >
> > > > >> BTW....George's great-grandparent is black. If Obama had a son, he's
> > > > >> sorta look like George.
> >
> > > > >>http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-.
> > > > >>..
> >

> > > > > These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the
> > > > > night
> > > > > he killed Trayvon Martin.
> >
> > > > That will be for the judge and jury to decide.
> >

> > > If it gets that far.  Frankly, with this report, I'm surprised there
> > > are charges.
> >

> > > -Greg

> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Does evidence of an altercation prove that Zimmerman was the victim?
> >

> The evidence that Trayvon beat his vigilante punk ass before he shot
> him allows Zimmerman to make a strong case for a justifiable homicide
> under the stand your ground law.

Well certainly with the other party to the fight dead, it's a lot easier
to claim self-defense...

[Alan Baker]

In article <1911482459358897424.9...@news.aioe.org>,

I don't have a conspiracy theory.

[David Laville]

On 16 May 2012 23:02:30 GMT, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:

>Ok, well, I'll type really slowly and you see if you can follow along:
>
>This evidence suggests that there was an altercation. Nothing more. It
>does not prove Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

Yet you and your fellow leftist has already tried and convicted
Zimmerman and can't wait to see him strapped to the electric chair.

[Moderate]

Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> Ok, well, I'll type really slowly and you see if you can follow along:
>
> This evidence suggests that there was an altercation. Nothing more. It
> does not prove Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.
>
> If this doesn't come into focus for you, then I guess you just need to
> think about it a little more.

Eye witness testimony that T was on top of Z bashing his head. Injuries on
both Z and M that support Z's story. Evidence that Z stopped following T
when advised not to.

It looks like things are coming into focus. Not for you of course. You made
up your mind a long time ago.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:17:18 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
wrote:

And you haven't? LOL

[Carbon]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 16:07:35 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
> In article <545696806358892197.72...@news.aioe.org>,
> Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Why?
>>>
>>> Does evidence of an altercation prove that Zimmerman was the victim?
>>
>> Martin's autopsy showed injury to his knuckles and a bullet hole in
>> his chest. No other injuries.
>
> OK. So?
>
> If you attack me and my defense injures you, does that give you the
> right to shoot me?

They do seem to be having a hard time absorbing this obvious point.

[Alan Baker]

In article <l5d8r71lkcdlvh39m...@4ax.com>,

Really?

Who has done anything like that and how exactly did they show it?

[Alan Baker]

In article <1138530588358902616.4...@news.aioe.org>,

Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:

> Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ok, well, I'll type really slowly and you see if you can follow along:
> >
> > This evidence suggests that there was an altercation. Nothing more. It
> > does not prove Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.
> >
> > If this doesn't come into focus for you, then I guess you just need to
> > think about it a little more.
>
> Eye witness testimony that T was on top of Z bashing his head. Injuries on
> both Z and M that support Z's story. Evidence that Z stopped following T
> when advised not to.

There is no such testimony. I dare you to produce it.

There is no evidence that he stopped following Martin.

>
> It looks like things are coming into focus. Not for you of course. You made
> up your mind a long time ago.

[Alan Baker]

In article <pan.2012.05...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>,

You failed to answer...

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <545696806358892197.72...@news.aioe.org>,
> Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Martin's autopsy showed injury to his knuckles and a bullet hole in his
>> chest. No other injuries.
>
> OK. So?
>
> If you attack me and my defense injures you, does that give you the
> right to shoot me?

I am not concerned with your hypotheticals. I am considering the known
evidence. According to you Z had no injuries which would involve a police
conspiracy.

[Carbon]

David, how's it going?

If you'll look up, my point was about proof. I think we already knew
that Zimmerman followed the kid and that there was an altercation.
Evidence of such really doesn't say anything about whether Zimmerman is
legally responsible for the killing of Trayvon Martin.

[Alan Baker]

In article <1647802724358903166.8...@news.aioe.org>,

Nope. What I said was that I saw no evidence of any injuries in the
video.

And I can see why you're twisting and dodging...

:-)

[Carbon]

I'm sorry that you find basic reason to be such a challenge. Life must
be very difficult for you.

Anyway, I think most people assumed there was an altercation. Evidence
of that is nice, I guess, but it really doesn't explain what happened.
It doesn't explain who started it. It doesn't explain who is legally
responsible for the death. Et cetera.

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <1138530588358902616.4...@news.aioe.org>,
> Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>> Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, well, I'll type really slowly and you see if you can follow along:
>>>
>>> This evidence suggests that there was an altercation. Nothing more. It
>>> does not prove Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.
>>>
>>> If this doesn't come into focus for you, then I guess you just need to
>>> think about it a little more.
>>
>> Eye witness testimony that T was on top of Z bashing his head. Injuries on
>> both Z and M that support Z's story. Evidence that Z stopped following T
>> when advised not to.
>
> There is no such testimony. I dare you to produce it.
>
> There is no evidence that he stopped following Martin.
>
>>
>> It looks like things are coming into focus. Not for you of course. You made
>> up your mind a long time ago.

It has already been discussed. Go back and read it.

[Moderate]

I have never made statements saying who was responsible. You have stated
unequivocally that it was Z on numerous occasions.

You did your usual name calling and Internet bully tantrum.

[Dene]

On May 16, 4:07 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <545696806358892197.727154nospam-nomail....@news.aioe.org>,
>
>  Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:

> > Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> > > In article
>
> > > Why?
>
> > > Does evidence of an altercation prove that Zimmerman was the victim?
>
> > Martin's autopsy showed injury to his knuckles and a bullet hole in his
> > chest. No other injuries.
>
> OK. So?
>
> If you attack me and my defense injures you, does that give you the
> right to shoot me?

Come to my door and find out,
Uncle Al the kiddy's pal

-Greg

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <1647802724358903166.8...@news.aioe.org>,
> Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>>> In article <545696806358892197.72...@news.aioe.org>,
>>> Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Martin's autopsy showed injury to his knuckles and a bullet hole in his
>>>> chest. No other injuries.
>>>
>>> OK. So?
>>>
>>> If you attack me and my defense injures you, does that give you the
>>> right to shoot me?
>>
>> I am not concerned with your hypotheticals. I am considering the known
>> evidence. According to you Z had no injuries which would involve a police
>> conspiracy.
>
> Nope. What I said was that I saw no evidence of any injuries in the
> video.
>
> And I can see why you're twisting and dodging...
>
> :-)

It is you who is spinning the truth.

[Dene]

On May 16, 3:21 pm, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:38:51 -0700, Dene wrote:
> > On May 16, 10:25 am, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
>
> >>> "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> >>> to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> >>> fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
>
> >>> Hmmm....self inflicted or......  A rush to judgment?
>
> >>> BTW....George's great-grandparent is black.  If Obama had a son,
> >>> he's sorta look like George.
>
> >>>http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...
>

> >> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the
> >> night he killed Trayvon Martin.
>

> > What do they prove, Carbs?
>
> If he had those injuries when he was seen by the EMTs the night of the
> killing, they would be evidence that there was an altercation. Which was
> pretty much a given anyway.
>
> They really don't say anything about Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

The injuries prove self defense and since there were no witnesses,
that says alot.

-Greg

[Alan Baker]

In article <1899714658358903966.1...@news.aioe.org>,

Really? Give a concrete example...

And answer my question.

[Carbon]

Here's what seems evident:

Zimmerman was armed and stalking an unarmed 17 year old kid who, as it
turned out, was walking home from the store. There was an altercation
and a short time later that kid was dead.

There isn't enough evidence to explain what really happened.

[Alan Baker]

In article
<54315f8e-61fd-4697...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,

The prove nothing of the kind.

You attack me and then I injure you in defending myself: if you then
shoot me, is it really "self-defense"?

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:32:02 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>

wrote:

><bkn...@conramp.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:17:18 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok, well, I'll type really slowly and you see if you can follow along:
>>>>
>>>> This evidence suggests that there was an altercation. Nothing more. It
>>>> does not prove Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.
>>>>
>>>> If this doesn't come into focus for you, then I guess you just need to
>>>> think about it a little more.
>>>
>>> Eye witness testimony that T was on top of Z bashing his head. Injuries on
>>> both Z and M that support Z's story. Evidence that Z stopped following T
>>> when advised not to.
>>>
>>> It looks like things are coming into focus. Not for you of course. You made
>>> up your mind a long time ago.
>>
>> And you haven't? LOL
>
>I have never made statements saying who was responsible. You have stated
>unequivocally that it was Z on numerous occasions.

BS. I have noted the inconsistent facets in his story, but have
steadfastly said that it's best to wait until all of the facts come
out. That's what a trial is for.

>
>You did your usual name calling and Internet bully tantrum.

Poor Sparky. Your feelings hurt again? Grow a pair.

[Dene]

On May 16, 1:02 pm, Loudon Briggs <lar...@bbz.net> wrote:
> Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
>

> Thank you, everybody... you won bet for me!
>
> I posted a golf story on this Group... mentioned "golf" in the
> title... and bet my son that there would be fewer than 4 responses.
>
> There was one (1) response. What a shithouse this rec-sport.golf group
> has become. I'm sure nobody cares but, I'm gone!

> --
>
> Loudon R. Briggs   lar...@bbz.net   Phoenix, AZ
>
> "How Can You Not Like A Game Where It's Okay To
>  Get Teed Off, Tote A Six-Iron, Shoot Birdies,
>  and If You're Under Par It's A Great Day!"
>
> (from "Frank & Ernest" by Bob Thaves -- used with permission)

Loudon,

RSG has been a 19th hole for a long time.

-Greg

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 16:41:21 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

Not necessarily self defense. He could have started the altercation
too. All of this will eventually come out in the trial I hope. The
bottom line IMO is that there was no reason to kill someone.

[Dene]

On May 16, 4:59 pm, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 16:41:21 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gdst...@aol.com>

If he was lying on his back, getting pummeled, and then felt T reach
for his gun, then yes....there is a reason to shoot him.

-Greg

[Frank Ketchum]

<bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:bmf8r75g4pcib1fr7...@4ax.com...

I agree with you on that. However the trial will decide whether or not zimm
broke the law. Personally I think that this law itself is absurd. That
should really be the focus in all this. It should not give me the right to
legally take a person's life just because they are beating the shit out of
me.

My take on this is that zimmerman probably didn't break the law and probably
will not be found guilty. But that doesn't make what happened right. This
law needs some serious reconsideration.

[Dene]

On May 16, 4:50 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <1899714658358903966.140055nospam-nomail....@news.aioe.org>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
> > Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> > > In article <1647802724358903166.893924nospam-nomail....@news.aioe.org>,

> > >  Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:

> > >>> In article <545696806358892197.727154nospam-nomail....@news.aioe.org>,

> > >>>  Moderate <nos...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> > >>>> Martin's autopsy showed injury to his knuckles and a bullet hole in his
> > >>>> chest. No other injuries.
>
> > >>> OK. So?
>
> > >>> If you attack me and my defense injures you, does that give you the
> > >>> right to shoot me?
>
> > >> I am not concerned with your hypotheticals. I am considering the known
> > >> evidence. According to you Z had no injuries which would involve a police
> > >> conspiracy.
>
> > > Nope. What I said was that I saw no evidence of any injuries in the
> > > video.
>
> > > And I can see why you're twisting and dodging...
>
> > > :-)
>
> > It is you who is spinning the truth.
>
> Really? Give a concrete example...
>
> And answer my question.
>
> :-)

Ignore the troll. He's not interested in the truth and/or your
view....just the argument.

-Greg

[Dene]

Let's put it within a context of a typical tragedy. Wife is getting
thumped by husband. Wife staggers to the gun drawer and shoots
husband dead. Wife has injuries associated with the beating. Dead
husband (Earl) only has knuckle injuries and a blast to the chest. Is
wife going to be charged with murder?

Zimmerman is guilty of two things. One is following a punk and two,
killing a punk who happens to be black. If he hadn't been black, we'd
never heard about it.

-Greg

[Frank Ketchum]

"Loudon Briggs" <lar...@bbz.net> wrote in message
news:kd18r7tkhdl9ph9df...@4ax.com...

> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> Thank you, everybody... you won bet for me!
>
> I posted a golf story on this Group... mentioned "golf" in the
> title... and bet my son that there would be fewer than 4 responses.
>
> There was one (1) response. What a shithouse this rec-sport.golf group
> has become. I'm sure nobody cares but, I'm gone!

That story has been posted here before and you only gave it three hours
before rendering your verdict.

Get over it. This group has been an eclectic collection of people who golf
or care about golf mainly discussing other things. It has been this way for
years.

[Carbon]

This being Florida, if he hadn't been black it's unlikely his killer
would have been released. That's what pissed all the black folks off.

Where are you getting this "punk" business from? You don't know what he
was like.

[Alan Baker]

In article
<06e00850-7a43-4807...@n8g2000pbv.googlegroups.com>,

I am interested in the truth, Greg.

It's a valid question...

...which explains why you've dodged it as well.

[Alan Baker]

In article
<39d91585-2b89-4bae...@n8g2000pbv.googlegroups.com>,

What--other than your assumption based (apparently) on nothing but his
skin colour--makes Trayvon Martin a "punk".

Ooohh... ..another valid question you won't answer!

[Alan Baker]

In article
<aece22e8-f164-44d3...@vy9g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

Even if he started the fight?

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 18:23:54 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

And now we come full circle to Z's persona; a self-appointed vigilante
with a handgun stalking someone who wasn't doing anything illegal.

If he didn't have that gun this never could happen.

BK

[bkn...@conramp.net]

We're in total agreement Frank.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 18:42:13 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

I disagree there. It may not have gotten such widespread attention,
but we would have heard about it.

[Alan Baker]

In article <dtn8r7hcu3l4d4o93...@4ax.com>,

Correct.

Because if Trayvon Martin hadn't been black, Zimmerman wouldn't have
been released after only 5 hours...

...because people wouldn't have simply assumed that a white kid was "a
punk"...

...which whether or not Martin turns out to have been, the cops couldn't
have had any way to know it when they released Zimmerman.

[Alan Baker]

In article
<226af58e-b21a-4ef1...@t2g2000pbl.googlegroups.com>,
Dene <gds...@aol.com> wrote:

> He attacked Zimmerman. His school record wasn't exactly stellar
> either.

Really?

You know that, how... ...that he attacked Zimmerman and not the other
way around?

And lots of people of a less than stellar school record without being a
"punk".

[Dene]

On May 16, 4:51 pm, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>
> Here's what seems evident:
>
> Zimmerman was armed and stalking an unarmed 17 year old kid who, as it
> turned out, was walking home from the store. There was an altercation
> and a short time later that kid was dead.
>
> There isn't enough evidence to explain what really happened.

Given this, you don't advocate Z's arrest or facing charges?

-Greg

[Dene]

You have a point there. Z should have been held longer than he was.

> Where are you getting this "punk" business from? You don't know what he
> was like.

T attacked Z. His school record wasn't exactly stellar.

Also...he was eating Skittles, which is punk food....unless you are a
certain Seahawk running back. ;)

-Greg

-Greg

[Alan Baker]

In article
<deb7198f-0f0a-489c...@ri8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

There is evidence of a young man's death.

There is evidence that Zimmerman initiated the encounter.

There is evidence that Zimmerman shot Martin at "intermediate range".

There is no evidence that Zimmerman was returning to his car when he and
Martin first came face to face. There is Zimmerman's after the fact
statement.

[Carbon]

There is enough of a smell coming off this tragedy to press charges and
let the courts sort it out.

However I wish Zimmerman had been charged with manslaughter instead of
murder 2. It is possible the prosecution has fairly conclusive evidence
that we don't know about. It's also possible it has no idea what it's
doing. Screwing this thing up isn't going to do anyone any good.

[Carbon]

You don't know that.

[Alan Baker]

In article <pan.2012.05...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>,

No more than he knows that Trayvon Martin was a "punk", correct.

[Dene]

On May 16, 9:51 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:

>
> No more than he knows that Trayvon Martin was a "punk", correct.

It's certain you are.

-Greg

[Don Kirkman]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 23:03:43 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
wrote:

>Don Kirkman <don...@charter.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 12:57:33 -0500, MNMikeW <mnmi...@aol.com> wrote:

>>
>>> Carbon wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the night
>>>> he killed Trayvon Martin.
>>>

>>> That will be for the judge and jury to decide.
>>
>> One possible explanation is that someone in the crowd beat Zimmerman
>> up after he shot Martin. I've never seen or heard any evidence for or
>> against that possibility. That is for the police, DA, judge, and jury
>> to decide.
>
>Well that is better than Carbon's and Baker's conspiracy theory, but not
>much. There are witnesses and corroborating evidence, but go with the
>least plausible.

If by corroborating evidence you mean Z.'s injuries 12 hours after the
event, I don't think that would fly in court. Sort of like if the
cops bring evidence that hasn't been keep under lock and key to avoid
tampering.
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net

[Alan Baker]

In article
<27d72d0f-67fb-40f5...@oe8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

LOL

Nice deflection from your own failings, Greg! First class!

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 16 May 2012 20:03:49 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

>He attacked Zimmerman. His school record wasn't exactly stellar
>either.
>
>-Greg

How do you know he attacked Z? That's not in evidence. Even so,
wouldn't you confront someone who was following you?

[Moderate]

The evidence is clear.

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article
> <deb7198f-0f0a-489c...@ri8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
> Dene <gds...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 16, 4:51 pm, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here's what seems evident:
>>>
>>> Zimmerman was armed and stalking an unarmed 17 year old kid who, as it
>>> turned out, was walking home from the store. There was an altercation
>>> and a short time later that kid was dead.
>>>
>>> There isn't enough evidence to explain what really happened.
>>
>> Given this, you don't advocate Z's arrest or facing charges?
>>
>> -Greg
>
> There is evidence of a young man's death.
>
> There is evidence that Zimmerman initiated the encounter.
>
> There is evidence that Zimmerman shot Martin at "intermediate range".
>
> There is no evidence that Zimmerman was returning to his car when he and
> Martin first came face to face. There is Zimmerman's after the fact
> statement.

We don't know all the evidence. We do know the available evidence conflicts
with your statements.

[Moderate]

<bkn...@conramp.net> wrote:
>
> How do you know he attacked Z? That's not in evidence. Even so,
> wouldn't you confront someone who was following you?

According to the evidence M ran, Z stopped following and lost track of M.
So you are suggesting at some point after that M initiated a confrontation?
That is plausible.

[BAR]

In article <pan.2012.05...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>,
nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>
> On Wed, 16 May 2012 12:31:33 -0700, John B. wrote:
> > On May 16, 2:34 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> >> In article
> >> <afd74764-ff3a-4c8f-a6e0-2f41ff7a7...@ki5g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,
> >>  Dene <gdst...@aol.com> wrote:

> >>> On May 16, 10:57 am, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>> Carbon wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the
> >>>>> night he killed Trayvon Martin.
> >>>>
> >>>> That will be for the judge and jury to decide.
> >>>

> >>> If it gets that far.  Frankly, with this report, I'm surprised there
> >>> are charges.
> >>
> >> Why?
> >>
> >> Does evidence of an altercation prove that Zimmerman was the victim?
> >>
> > The evidence that Trayvon beat his vigilante punk ass before he shot
> > him allows Zimmerman to make a strong case for a justifiable homicide
> > under the stand your ground law.
>
> Would this be the case if it was found that Zimmerman started it?

The evidence doesn't support your argument that Zimmerman started the
physical interaction.

[BAR]

In article <pan.2012.05...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>,
nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>

> On Wed, 16 May 2012 11:21:02 -0700, Dene wrote:
> > On May 16, 10:57 am, MNMikeW <mnmiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Carbon wrote:

> >>> On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two
> >>>> lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day
> >>>> after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
> >>>>
> >>>> Hmmm....self inflicted or......  A rush to judgment?
> >>>>
> >>>> BTW....George's great-grandparent is black.  If Obama had a son,
> >>>> he's sorta look like George.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...
> >>>

> >>> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the
> >>> night he killed Trayvon Martin.
> >>
> >> That will be for the judge and jury to decide.
> >
> > If it gets that far. Frankly, with this report, I'm surprised there
> > are charges.
>

> How do you know the prosecution didn't have the medical report?

What did the prosecution base its case upon?

[BAR]

In article <pan.2012.05...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>,
nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>

> On Wed, 16 May 2012 15:11:02 -0700, kenpitts wrote:
> > On May 16, 12:25 pm, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 16 May 2012 10:08:54 -0700, Dene wrote:
> >>
> >>> "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations
> >>> to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he
> >>> fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."
> >>>
> >>> Hmmm....self inflicted or......  A rush to judgment?
> >>>
> >>> BTW....George's great-grandparent is black.  If Obama had a son,
> >>> he's sorta look like George.
> >>>
> >>> http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-...
> >>
> >> These injuries do not prove Zimmerman's version of the events the
> >> night he killed Trayvon Martin.
> >

> > http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/
> >
> > I guess you'll assume this poster once again.
> >
> > http://photobucket.com/images/See+no+evil%3B+Hear+no+evil%3B+Speak+no+evil/

>
> Ok, well, I'll type really slowly and you see if you can follow along:
>
> This evidence suggests that there was an altercation. Nothing more. It
> does not prove Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.
>
> If this doesn't come into focus for you, then I guess you just need to
> think about it a little more.

The evidence does prove that Zimmerman received more physical injuries
due to a physical altercation than Martin received.

[BAR]

In article <bin9r7prfh76n36kd...@4ax.com>,
bkn...@conramp.net says...

No, he might have a knife or a gun.

[BAR]

In article <mdl8r75erq1l60o7l...@4ax.com>,
bkn...@conramp.net says...

Where is your proof that he Zimmerman was stalking anyone.