Q] Water Hazards
_Jung
The shape of the pond is as following; put your right fist on a desk with
the palm side facing down, then extend your index finger out. If you have a
very thick index finger, it's almost exactly how the pond is shaped. In
other words, it sorta looks like number "6."
The tee box is located somewhere around your wrist, and the landing area (=
fairway) is the area right above those three fingers of yours that are still
folded, or right side of the index finger.
As you have guessed already, this pond is both a standard water hazard and a
lateral water hazard, depending on which part of it you are looking at.
I hit a tee shot with my three wood, which had a decent distance but pulled
a little bit too far to the left. Of course, to make things worse the ball
flew with a slight draw, which was very uncharacteristic of my shot. I hit
draws only when I pull... *sigh* Anyway, the ball went into the lateral
hazard part of the pond.
Here is my question. Was I supposed to either re-tee, or move up to the
standard water hazard part of the pond and hit my third? In other words,
was I supposed to treat the pond as a standard water hazard? Or, was I
allowed to move to the fairway and take a drop there, treating the pond as a
lateral water hazard?
My guess is that the answer depends on the flight path of my ball; if my
ball went across any portion of the fairway, then it was a lateral water
hazard. If my ball never was in the air above the fairway, then I had to
treat the pond as a standard water hazard. Am I right on this??
Given that I guessed it right, here comes my second question. With my best
judgment, the ball has *licked* the bottom left corner of the fairway
(actually the air above it) during its flight before it went into the pond.
So, I was entitled to move up to the fairway and take a drop near the point
where my ball had entered the pond, which was the bottom left corner of the
fairway, right? The problem is, there was a huge willow tree right on that
corner, the area I was supposed to take a drop. Do I get another relief
from the tree??
Thank you for your answer in advance.
Larry Paul Perry
your water hazzard is marked with red stakes, then you get relief as far
back towards the teeboz as you care to use. You should be able to take
relief from the tree, as long as you move no closer to the pin.
Kenny Stultz
>
>It happened this afternoon. It all started with my errant tee shot....
>
>
>
>
>Here is my question. Was I supposed to either re-tee, or move up to the
>standard water hazard part of the pond and hit my third? In other words,
>was I supposed to treat the pond as a standard water hazard? Or, was I
>allowed to move to the fairway and take a drop there, treating the pond as a
>lateral water hazard?
The pond should be marked with with either red or yellow stakes. Sometimes
ponds have both color stakes at different places because part of hte pond is
considered a lateral water hazard and part is considered a regular hazard.
Yellow is for a regular hazard and red is for a lateral. The only thing that
counts is where your ball _crossed_ the margin of the hazard in determining
whether you treat the hazard as regular or lateral. It doesn't matter what
part of the pond the ball landed in.
>
>
>My guess is that the answer depends on the flight path of my ball; if my
>ball went across any portion of the fairway, then it was a lateral water
>hazard. If my ball never was in the air above the fairway, then I had to
>treat the pond as a standard water hazard. Am I right on this??
>
No. See above. You go by where the ball last crossed the margin of the
hazard.
>Given that I guessed it right, here comes my second question. With my best
>judgment, the ball has *licked* the bottom left corner of the fairway
>(actually the air above it) during its flight before it went into the pond.
>So, I was entitled to move up to the fairway and take a drop near the point
>where my ball had entered the pond, which was the bottom left corner of the
>fairway, right? The problem is, there was a huge willow tree right on that
>corner, the area I was supposed to take a drop. Do I get another relief
>from the tree??
>
You do not get free relief from a tree.
>
>Thank you for your answer in advance.
>
Kenny
--
Kenny Stultz - Troll and SPAM intolerant
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"Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can
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Rick
tree if the part of the pond where the ball initially crossed is a lateral
(red stakes) hazard. With a lateral hazard, you are also allowed to drop on
the other side of the pond, as long as that point is no closer to the hole.
Larry, you are confusing line of sight with line of flight. You never are
allowed to drop along the line of flight. The other method of relief is to
take the line between where the ball entered and the PIN. You can go back
as far as you want along that line to get relief from that tree.
Rick
"_Jung" <Yam...@dls.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:vbs17q8...@corp.supernews.com...
golfmyball
You said the ball went into the lateral water hazard and assuming this
is true you play the ball as in a lateral water hazard (see the
rules). The path of the ball over the fairway had nothing to do with
anything. It is a question of fact, did the ball cross the the
lateral hazard and come to rest in the lateral hazard or did it not.
Did the ball cross the water hazard and come to rest in the water
hazard or did it not. What was the last point the ball crossed
before it came to rest is the question.
golfmyball
NO. A water hazzard is marked with yellow a lateral water hazzard is
marked red. NEVER, I say NEVER, do you you get relief on a line back
to the tee box.
_Jung
"golfmyball" <golfm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5012ce4.03051...@posting.google.com...
>
> You said the ball went into the lateral water hazard and assuming this
> is true you play the ball as in a lateral water hazard (see the
> rules). The path of the ball over the fairway had nothing to do with
> anything. It is a question of fact, did the ball cross the the
> lateral hazard and come to rest in the lateral hazard or did it not.
> Did the ball cross the water hazard and come to rest in the water
> hazard or did it not. What was the last point the ball crossed
> before it came to rest is the question.
What if I hit a tee shot, the ball first flies over the (standard) water
hazard, keeps flying and goes over the lateral water hazard, and then
finally comes to rest in the lateral water hazard? Where should I take a
drop? Doesn't the rule say I should drop a ball within two club length from
the point where the ball entered the lateral water hazard? In this case,
that point is somewhere in the pond, since the ball entered the lateral
water hazard directly from the (standard) water hazard.
I am thinking the only logical place I can take a drop therefore is the
somewhere in front of the (standard) water hazard portion of the pond, near
the teeing ground. However, if the ball's flight path included some portion
of the fairway (hence the path was like water hazard -> fairway -> lateral
water hazard), then I would have some place in the fairway where I could've
taken a drop. Wouldn't I?
In other words, in order to play the ball as in a lateral water hazard, to
determine where to drop a ball to be more specific, wouldn't the ball's
flight path over the fairway have a lot to do with this situation?
???
Thank you for your answer.
Colin Wilson
> In other words, in order to play the ball as in a lateral water
> hazard, to determine where to drop a ball to be more specific,
> wouldn't the ball's flight path over the fairway have a lot to do
> with this situation?
Yes.
A lateral water hazard is one that by definition is not possible or
deemed to be impracticable to drop a ball behind it.
If a ball enters a water hazard, you take relief as per a water hazard.
Whether it is a lateral water hazard further up the fairway is
immaterial, because by definition you can still drop behind it in line
with the pin.
However, if the ball carried a water hazard, then crossed more fairway,
then entered a lateral water hazard, then you take relief as per a
lateral water hazard, as you can no longer realistically drop behind it
in line with the pin. The wording of option c. under Rule 26-1 is "last
crossed the margin" after all.
(Of course, you can always take option a. (playing another ball from
where you last played your shot) in which case whether it is a water
hazard or lateral water hazard, and where, is immaterial!)
BTW, there are quite a few diagrams in the decisions book illustrating
various relief options from tricky water hazard situations.
--
Cheers
Colin Wilson
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Kenny Stultz
Jung,
You are trying to think of your pond as two _separate_ hazards - one regular
and one one lateral. That's not what you have. You have ONE hazard and part
of it is marked as a reguar hazard and part of it is marked as a lateral
hazard.
Wherever the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard determines if you use
the rules for regular hazards or the rules for lateral hazards. It doesn't
matter where the ball actually hit the water. It only matters where it crossed
the margin of the hazard.
In your case above, you cannot use the two clublengths rule for lateral water
hazards.
Howard Brazee
Do you have access to newsgroups but no access to
http://www.usga.org/rules/rules_2002_03/index.html ??
My course doesn't mark its water hazards so we must make our own decisions
regarding whether or not the hazard is lateral. It sounds to me that the
finger of his lake was a lateral hazard.
Howard Brazee
On 11-May-2003, golfm...@hotmail.com (golfmyball) wrote:
> NO. A water hazzard is marked with yellow a lateral water hazzard is
> marked red. NEVER, I say NEVER, do you you get relief on a line back
> to the tee box.
Which doesn't mean he can't take stroke and distance.
Howard Brazee
On 11-May-2003, "_Jung" <Yam...@dls.nospam.net> wrote:
> What if I hit a tee shot, the ball first flies over the (standard) water
> hazard, keeps flying and goes over the lateral water hazard, and then
> finally comes to rest in the lateral water hazard? Where should I take a
> drop? Doesn't the rule say I should drop a ball within two club length from
> the point where the ball entered the lateral water hazard? In this case,
> that point is somewhere in the pond, since the ball entered the lateral
> water hazard directly from the (standard) water hazard.
At the point that the ball last entered the hazard, was it a lateral hazard?
The hazard is defined (for your shot) by where the ball enters the hazard. It
doesn't change definitions until the ball leaves the hazard. If it passes
over land and then goes into the lateral hazard portion, then it is now a
lateral hazard and you can drop it on the land. If it doesn't, it is still the
same hazard it was when you hit it.
_Jung
question. Now I got it.
To make my question short, I didn't tell you guys what exactly happened
there that day... My first tee shot went into the lateral water hazard
(finger portion of the pond) without flying over the fairway at all. I
didn't know whether I could move up to the fairway to take a drop or not, so
I simply decided to re-tee, which was one sure option I knew I wouldn't
break any rules with. Unfortunately, my second tee shot (3rd) went into the
same lateral water hazard, but this time the ball's flight path was briefly
over the lower left corner of the fairway. Not that I knew now I could go
across the (standard) water hazard portion of the pond and take a drop
there, but I went ahead and did so anyway - I wouldn't dare to re-tee again
after already depositing two balls into the pond.. I was lucky that I was
actually entitled to do so even though I didn't know that for sure.
As I said in my original posting, there was a huge tree at the lower left
corner of the fairway. My ball probably went around it (right side of the
tree) before entering the hazard. Otherwise, it would've hit the tree since
the tree really was tall that my ball didn't have a chance to clear it over.
So, I could take a drop beyond the tree. However, it made me wonder, what
if my ball did go over the tree, and the margin at which it last entered the
hazard was indeed where the tree was standing? What if all the possible
relief spots were totally occupied by this tree? I guess I wouldn't get
another relief from the tree since the tree wasn't a part of the hazard,
therefore wouldn't have any real estate where I can drop a ball on. The
only option would've been re-re-teeing... What a cruel game it is...
*sigh*
By the way, I missed the green with my fifth shot, had a so-so chip on to
the green, and two-putted for a double par save. Yes, it was a save for
me... :)
Thanks again, and have a nice day y'all.