Elway is Overrated !!
Gil
As far as I'm concerned he is the most overrated quaterback I've ever seen.
As far as I can see, there are 9 guys better than him
This is not neccesarily in order
1 Montana
2 Young
3 Simms
4 Aikman
5 Marino
6 Kelly
7 Favre
8 Esiasan
9 Moon
10 Elway
(OK maybe I'm going a little too far, He probably is #7 after Kelly)
Mark_Huggins
: Why is it that when people rate quaterbacks Elway is always one of the top ?
^^^^^^
You said it yourself buddy, you must be the only stupid one out there!
I'll give you some reasons why he's one of the best:
Consistently Durable
One of the BEST ARMS every to play the games
Lead mediocre teams to the Super Bowl
One of the Greatest comeback quarterbacks of all time
Great desire to win
In general he is a Winner
I can come up with alot more but I only have 5 minutes so if you
need more reasons just let me know.
Mark
glenferd
1 Montana
2 Young
3 Simms
4 Aikman
5 Marino
6 Kelly
7 Favre
8 Esiasan
9 Moon
10 Elway
>
> (OK maybe I'm going a little too far, He probably is #7 after Kelly)
>
>
Let's get real,last year Elway outranked at least five of the QB's you
have listed. Despite having not one healthy starter to throw to last year,
Elway led the entire AFC in yardage and completions and had a rating of4th
overall. Favre in the same class as Elway? You must be a GreenBay fan. What
kind of hallucinatory cheese fungus have you been eating?
I want some too! Maybe then I can imagine an AFC team winning a superbowl.
PVM-III
: Why is it that when people rate quaterbacks Elway is always one of the top ?
: As far as I'm concerned he is the most overrated quaterback I've ever seen.
: As far as I can see, there are 9 guys better than him
Because he has nearly single-handely carried the Broncos for the past ten
years. If it weren't for Elway, the Broncos would have only one Super
Bowl appearance to their credit. He consistantly makes plays that no
other QB, not even Marino or Montana could make. (Favre's cross-body pass
to Sharpe last year is an exception). Doubt me? The Broncos record sans
Elway in 1992 was 0-4. He may not be the best, but he is clearly one of
the best.
: This is not neccesarily in order
:
: 3 Simms
This would be quite a trick since the only bombing Simms will ever do
again is in front of the TV camera. (Remember? He retired ...)
Ivan Wong
Why does he always have to comeback?
--
iWong
"it would be so easy with a whore...love. hate.love"
DAVE REEB
>From: tg...@tudor.com (Gil)
>Subject: Elway is Overrated !!
>Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 15:32:33 GMT
If you look at all of the QB's that you named, they all have all had at
least one all pro receiver over the years to throw the ball to. Elway has
never had an all pro wide receiver on his team until this season(with the
signing of Anthony Miller). When you have a great running back and all pro
wide outs, the defense must worry about them and therefore they do not
concentrate as much on the QB. When the QB is not surrounded by
extraordinary talent, the defense can focus on the QB instead. Over the
years Elway has time and time again proven that he can play with a much less
talented team and still compete at a very high level. Just wait until you
see what Elway can do now that he has a decent offensive line and some
receivers with experience. Elway has said it himself that there will be no
excuses if the offense doesn't perform exceptionally well this year. He
will take the blame. Just wait till the season...
Dave
Elway all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PVM-III
:
: Why does he always have to comeback?
Probably for the same reason IBM is trying to come back - because losing
sucks.
Kevin Barnes
: This is not neccesarily in order
: 1 Montana
: 2 Young
: 3 Simms
: 4 Aikman
: 5 Marino
: 6 Kelly
: 7 Favre
: 8 Esiasan
: 9 Moon
: 10 Elway
As I see it
Marino
Kelly - Elway - Moon - Young - and maybe that guy from Philly
The rest!
This is sure to be reordered this year.
Why is Joe Missing? He's the best ever but ever has alredy passed!
Boomer? he's like Aikman, a great back (icky) and a great defense carried him,
face it if Joe Furgeson had a good ankle Boomer never would have played
in a SB.
WEGSCHEIDER ERIK
>Why is it that when people rate quaterbacks Elway is always one of the top ?
>As far as I'm concerned he is the most overrated quaterback I've ever seen.
>As far as I can see, there are 9 guys better than him
>This is not neccesarily in order
> 1 Montana
> 2 Young
> 3 Simms
> 4 Aikman
Why is it that people rate Montana always still at the top? You ask any
coach, and I think they would rather have Elway than Montana at this moment
in time. He was the best, but let it rest.
Erik
Tim Dotson
: Why is it that when people rate quaterbacks Elway is always one of the top ?
: As far as I'm concerned he is the most overrated quaterback I've ever seen.
: As far as I can see, there are 9 guys better than him
: (OK maybe I'm going a little too far, He probably is #7 after Kelly)
Depends on what you're rating. If you're rating QB's carreer
performances, I would tend to agree with you, but if you're looking at
potential for the upcoming season, Elway (as much I HATE him) is probably
the second best behind Young. With the additions of 2 great recievers
this year and the outstanding Sharpe, Elway will put up some big numbers
this year. The only problem is the Broncos will still loose crucial games
because they have done nothing about thier defense. Elway is smart and
strong and with great recievers and can run a 2 minute drill better than
anyone. What more do you want? And all this coming from the head chief
of the "I hate Elway" fan club!
To me, Marino and Aikman really are the only guys that can be mentioned
in that club. Other guys who are close would be Moon, Cunningham,
Montana (only because of the SMART factor) and those who have potential
to be good this year, but are not for sure would be Farve, George, Mirer
(all he needs is some more good recievers) and Hostetler. I'd add
Bledsoe to the list, but he's playing for Parcell's. Say no more...
--
| This message respectfully offered by Tim Dotson : tdo...@execpc.com |
| Call the Lens BBS for AutoCAD & graphics support! (414) 453-6789 |
| Please send to exe0...@char2.vnet.net if a reply is bounced back! |
Dan Stamey
: Why is it that when people rate quaterbacks Elway is always one of the top ?
:
Gil:
I can only suggest that you don't know anything about Elway as the reason
why your above list is ludicrous! Elway has done much more than any of these
quarterbacks with such inferior talent. He took the Broncos to 3 SB in 4
years, and each year, those teams were average at best. Elway made the
difference. Last year, Elway established himself as one of the top 2-3
quarterbacks, and with such great offensive tools, he WILL be the best
quarterback this year. If you asked 10 people to choose a quarterback to
build their football team, I would suggest that Young and Elway would be the
quarterbacks chosen. They are very similar. Strong, big, scramblers and
great arms. It's taken Elway a while to become a smart quarterback, but
he has arrived. We have criticized Elway here in Denver for years, but
we know we have one of the greatest ever. Here's hoping Elway gets what
he so richly deserves, a Super Bowl ring!
--
=============================================================================
-------------- Daniel C. Stamey Software Engineer
| \ Evolving Systems, Inc. 8000 E. Maplewood Ave.
---- *| Englewood, CO 80111
|____________\ d...@evolving.com (303) 689-1259 Office #3107
GO CORNHUSKERS!
=============================================================================
Stephen M. Barlow
Elway IS overrated!
Keith Glasson
: If you look at all of the QB's that you named, they all have all had at
: least one all pro receiver over the years to throw the ball to. Elway has
: never had an all pro wide receiver on his team until this season(with the
: signing of Anthony Miller).
So why is it that Denver took so long to get some decent
receivers for Elway? If that's al that's held him back all
these years, you'd think Bronco management would have figured
it out before now. (Nothing against Mr. Ed. I think he's a
fine QB.)
-keith
Eber Lambert
>: Why is it that when people rate quaterbacks Elway is always one of the top ?
>: As far as I'm concerned he is the most overrated quaterback I've ever seen.
>: As far as I can see, there are 9 guys better than him
>: This is not neccesarily in order
>: 1 Montana
>: 2 Young
>: 3 Simms
>: 4 Aikman
>: 5 Marino
>: 6 Kelly
>: 7 Favre
>: 8 Esiasan
>: 9 Moon
>: 10 Elway
Youre nuts. As a Raider fan, no one hates Elway more than me. But if, based
on performance over the past 5 years, I had a choice of which QB to pick
of these 10, I'd take Mr Ed (Elway). The guy has single handedly carried
mediocre to bad Denver teams for 10 years (okay and 1 or 2 good ones).
Simms, Favre,Boomer, Moon over Elway??? Better cut back on your dosage
cowboy.
As to why he always has to comeback? Because the Denver D sucks. THIS is
why they lose SB. Defense wins the big ones. Lots of mediocre offenses
have won the SB with a good D. (Bears, Giants, Washington,Raiders, etc..)
Good offenses with mediocre Defenses dont.
If Montana had been surrounded by the Denver teams Elways had, I doubt
he'd be annointed St Joe. We need to integrate for for another 5 years on
Young and Aikman to see if they'll provide 10 years of consistent (injury
free) service as starters. That leaves Marino and Kelly as his rivals.
I'd still take Ed.
-Plata
david dixon
>DAVE REEB (re...@kaka.lincoln.ac.nz) wrote:
> So why is it that Denver took so long to get some decent
> receivers for Elway? If that's al that's held him back all
> these years, you'd think Bronco management would have figured
> it out before now. (Nothing against Mr. Ed. I think he's a
> fine QB.)
Yeah, you would think that, wouldn't you? I think Denver fans have
been asking the same question throughout the reign of Dan Reeves.
Now New York can bitch about him, as he picks up Denver's crappy
recievers for the Giants. :-)
Dave
Kenneth Bullock
Eber Lambert <elam...@abe.qualcomm.com> wrote:
>As to why he always has to comeback? Because the Denver D sucks. THIS is
>why they lose SB. Defense wins the big ones. Lots of mediocre offenses
>have won the SB with a good D. (Bears, Giants, Washington,Raiders, etc..)
>Good offenses with mediocre Defenses dont.
As a Raiders fan, you should be familiar with their '76 Superbowl team,
which had an All-World offense, but not one of the more memorable defenses.
And no Raider Superbowl team has had a "mediocre" offense. Their '80 and
'83 teams had great defenses, but they also had offenses that could put up
lots of points in the big games. When the Raider offense really _did_ get
mediocre after '83, the Raiders were no longer able to go to the Superbowl,
despite still having a formidable defense.
You have to be pretty damn good on both sides of the ball, not to mention
special teams. The Broncos' Superbowl teams in the '80s had good defenses,
but their defensive players weren't big enough to match up against the huge
NFC offensive lines and running backs. And they never had great cornerbacks
either.
Mark_Huggins
: Elway IS overrated!
I love all the facts you provide to backup your opinion!
PVM-III
GIL> The Broncos defense got the Broncos to the Super Bowl, not Elway.
GIL> How many points did the Broncos hold their opponents to ? How many
GIL> points did the Broncis score ?
In their three Elway-era Super Bowl appearances the Broncos posted
losses of 39-20, 42-10 and 55-10. The Broncos defensive effort was
every bit as poor as their offensive one. But, lest you forget, on
two consecutive years, in two consecutive AFC championships against
the Browns, Elway engineered last minute drives to win the game. The
first effort, in 1986-87, was so monumental that it has since become
known, simply, as The Drive (joining other NFL highlights like The
Catch and The Hail Mary). If it hadn't been for Elway, the Broncos
never would have been in a position to lose those SB's.
GIL> PVM> Because he has nearly single-handely carried the Broncos for
GIL> PVM> the past ten years. If it weren't for Elway, the Broncos would
GIL> PVM> have only one Super Bowl appearance to their credit. He
GIL> PVM> consistantly makes plays that no other QB, not even Marino or
GIL> PVM> ontana could make. (Favre's cross-body pass to Sharpe last year
GIL> PVM> is an exception). Doubt me? The Broncos record sans Elway in
GIL> PVM> 1992 was 0-4. He may not be the best, but he is clearly one
GIL> PVM> of the best.
GIL>
GIL> He is a good QB - not a great QB. He has a great arm. A great
GIL> QB can put points on the board - not just in the last 2 minutes of
GIL> a game. He can do some pretty impressive things - but he is not
GIL> CONSISTANT. a great QB is CONSISTANT.
Well, as I stated above, Elway has carried the Broncos for *TEN* years.
If that's not consistant, what is? In Elway's eleven years the Broncos
have been wildcards three or four times, division champs five times, and
conference champs three times. (The only other QB's with as much success
during the last ten years are Kelly and Montana). If that's not
consistancy, what is? Elway has passed for over 3000 yards, and run for
over 200 yards, eight of his eleven seasons in the league. (Last years
his rushing was down to 153yds, but I'm sure he'll trade 47yds rushing
for the 4030 he had passing). If that's not consistency, what is? Except
for the four games in 1992, Elway has started every Broncos game since
his rookie year. If that's not consistency, what is? Elway has as many
4th quarter comebacks as Montana and Marino (about 24 apiece). If that's
not consistency, what is?
If you don't like Elway, just say so -- but don't profer the nonsense
that Elway is not a great QB. Remember, the First Rule of Homerism: "I
am a homer, but I am not an idiot."
Gil
: Gil (tg...@tudor.com) wrote:
: : Why is it that when people rate quaterbacks Elway is always one of the top ?
: ^^^^^^
: You said it yourself buddy, you must be the only stupid one out there!
: I'll give you some reasons why he's one of the best:
:
: Consistently Durable
durable does not make a great QB - Jim Harbaugh is durable - I don't see
anyone calling him great.
: One of the BEST ARMS every to play the games
Yup he has a great arm. This is the reason people think Elway is
great. A great arm is not all it takes to be a great QB (can you
say Doug Flutie ?).
: Lead mediocre teams to the Super Bowl
How many points did Elway put on the board ? He didn't exactly put on
a fireworks display. What kind of competition was there in the WIMPY
AFC ? I think the defense has more to do with his getting to the
Super Bowl than his offense.
: One of the Greatest comeback quarterbacks of all time
He wouldn't need to make a great comeback if he played well for the
first 58 minutes of the game. Besides, it wasn't like his team was
down by 3 touchdowns or anything.
: Great desire to win
Oh please, just cause a guy wants to win doesn't mean he is any good.
: In general he is a Winner
How can you call him a winner ? What has he ever won ?
If he's such a good QB, why didn't the Broncos have one of the best
offenses ? Why didn't the Broncos score lots of points ? Why
was his QB rating mediocre ? What haven't the Broncos won at least one
Super Bowl ?
PVM-III
Curtis Jamison
|> Mark_Huggins (hug...@col.hp.com) wrote:
|> : Gil (tg...@tudor.com) wrote:
|> : : Why is it that when people rate quaterbacks Elway is always one of the top ?
|> : ^^^^^^
|> : You said it yourself buddy, you must be the only stupid one out there!
|>
|>
|> [refuting arguments deleted]
Summary: Each of the points for Elway were refuted well, however each of
the points mentioned was a package deal. Alone, none of these attributes
is sufficient to make a great quarterback, but together they do.
|>
|> How can you call him a winner ? What has he ever won ?
3 AFC Championships. (These count, don't they?)
|>
|> If he's such a good QB, why didn't the Broncos have one of the best
|> offenses ? Why didn't the Broncos score lots of points ? Why
|> was his QB rating mediocre ? What haven't the Broncos won at least one
|> Super Bowl ?
|>
There are a lot of reasons why Denver hasn't had one of the best offenses.
A major one was lack of talent around Elway and a coach with an overly
consertive offensive philosophy which didn't exploit John's talents. Also,
because of Reeve's preference for the running game (which he didn't have
the RB to do) Elway was often in 3rd and long situations with mediocre
receivers to throw to. Way too many times we watched a good pass for a
1st dropped. Now that he has a coach and receivers who allow him to use
his talents, his numbers/ratings will increase dramatically.
As for winning at least one Superbowl, there are 7 teams that have been
to the SB and come away without winning. Playing for those teams are
quarterbacks like Cunningham and Kelly (who were rated above Elway)
and the great Tark. Are these guys over-rated because they haven't won
a SuperBowl? And what about guys like Moon who have never even been
there or Young whose SB ring came from Montana's passing? I'm not trying
to invite flames here, just trying to make the point that SB records have
little to do with the ability of a player.
IMHO, you simply don't like Elway. That's OK, you're entitled to your
opinion. Join the "I Hate Elway" club. Personally I dislike Troy Aikman.
But when all is said and done, when ranking players like this, you have
to put personal animosity aside and give credit where credit is due, and
you have to credit Elway with being one of the top five QBs in the league,
like the list that started this thread said.
--
Curt Jamison
jam...@csl.ncsa.uiuc.edu
These opinions are entirely my own and bear no relation
to those of my employers and/or reality
Sean Stasica
> Well, as I stated above, Elway has carried the Broncos for *TEN* years.
> If that's not consistant, what is? In Elway's eleven years the Broncos
> have been wildcards three or four times, division champs five times, and
> conference champs three times. (The only other QB's with as much success
> during the last ten years are Kelly and Montana). If that's not
> consistancy, what is? Elway has passed for over 3000 yards, and run for
> over 200 yards, eight of his eleven seasons in the league. (Last years
> his rushing was down to 153yds, but I'm sure he'll trade 47yds rushing
> for the 4030 he had passing). If that's not consistency, what is? Except
> for the four games in 1992, Elway has started every Broncos game since
> his rookie year. If that's not consistency, what is? Elway has as many
> 4th quarter comebacks as Montana and Marino (about 24 apiece). If that's
> not consistency, what is?
Uh, I hate to say it but you're wrong. Last count I think Elway has 32
4th quarter comebacks (a significant amount more than Marino and Montana).
By the way, to answer everyone's questions about why Elway was always in the
position for 4th quarter comebacks because Reeves believed in a very
conservative offense--don't run up the score, just win. Elway never had
pro-bowl calibur receivers because Reeves likes the ground game better.
Do the Giants have pro-bowl receivers? I didn't think so. They don't
even have a real QB this year. I think that will put into perspective
Reeves coaching mentality.
When Wade Phillips took over, he asked Elway what he needed to win. First
priority--offensive line. And so it was. Elway responded with his first
4000 yard season and 25tds. Isn't that telling enough? Next priority--
real receivers. What will he respond with in '94?
Unlike most QB's in the league, Elway is the best at using every bit of
talent on the field, instead of staying comfortable throwing to one star
receiver (ahem...Favre) or blindly handing it off to your star running back
every other play. Elway never had that luxury, and franky didn't need it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
sta...@alumni.cs.colorado.edu
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
allan b goodrich
>: Great desire to win
What the hell is wrong with you people? Stop seeing who is better than
who and wait until thye goddam season is being played. Maybe Steve Young
with falter, and Jim Harbaugh will be great, it doesn't matter if Elway
is overrated if he is or not. He put great numbers with half-decent
receviers, and he isn't paid 4 mil per year like Vinny, or Favre. Flame
me if you want but this is ridisulous sp.
The pissed off ABG
Eber Lambert
>As for winning at least one Superbowl, there are 7 teams that have been
>to the SB and come away without winning. Playing for those teams are
>quarterbacks like Cunningham and Kelly (who were rated above Elway)
>and the great Tark.
Lets keep the facts straight: Cunninghams never been to the dance.
But you could use Marino here. One measly AFC championship 10 years ago,
but the guys a player.
With regard to Flutie's arm... get real. The guys entire career is/was
based on one fucking hail Mary in college. You'll recall nobody was
standing in line to draft him. If you want a great arm thats a bad QB
take Schroeder or Wilson.
Plata
PVM-III
: If he's such a good QB, why didn't the Broncos have one of the best
: offenses ? Why didn't the Broncos score lots of points ? Why
: was his QB rating mediocre ? What haven't the Broncos won at least one
: Super Bowl ?
several HOF'ers who never won a Super Bowl or NFL Championship: Fouts,
Tarkenton, Jurgenson and - in the future - Marino.
PVM-III
: What the hell is wrong with you people? Stop seeing who is better than
: with falter, and Jim Harbaugh will be great, it doesn't matter if Elway
: is overrated if he is or not. He put great numbers with half-decent
: receviers, and he isn't paid 4 mil per year like Vinny, or Favre. Flame
: me if you want but this is ridisulous sp.
only to Steve Young's $5.35 million among *all* NFL players).
PVM-III
: PVM-III (pvm...@earth.execpc.com) wrote:
: > Well, as I stated above, Elway has carried the Broncos for *TEN* years.
: > If that's not consistant, what is? In Elway's eleven years the Broncos
: > have been wildcards three or four times, division champs five times, and
: > conference champs three times. (The only other QB's with as much success
: > during the last ten years are Kelly and Montana). If that's not
: > consistancy, what is? Elway has passed for over 3000 yards, and run for
: > over 200 yards, eight of his eleven seasons in the league. (Last years
: > his rushing was down to 153yds, but I'm sure he'll trade 47yds rushing
: > for the 4030 he had passing). If that's not consistency, what is? Except
: > for the four games in 1992, Elway has started every Broncos game since
: > his rookie year. If that's not consistency, what is? Elway has as many
: > 4th quarter comebacks as Montana and Marino (about 24 apiece). If that's
: > not consistency, what is?
Well, if I am wrong, then you must be wrong, because I was defending
Elway - not denigrating him. Maybe you should read my message again?
(I've included it in my quote so you can).
WEGSCHEIDER ERIK
All of you Elway haters out there, well, let me just say that I am in the
club. But, beeing a Seahawks fan, I also have great respect for the guy. I
have seen him time and time again rip my team apart, or pull out a clincher
in the end.
Hate him if you want, but don't let that blind you. The guy will be hall of
fame, and is every coach's dream.
Erik
Alaskan studying in Seattle away in Germany.
glenferd
wrote:
>
> Why does he always have to comeback?
> --
> iWong
You must either be a KC fan or a Cleveland fan.
Glenn
Satish Nair
Ivan Wong
--
iWong
"it would be so easy with a whore...love. hate.love"
Donald P Boell
Despite never having a pro-bowl WR to throw to he has led overachieving
Bronco teams to 3 superbowls.
His scambling ability, until injured in '92, created havoc for defenses.
He was forced to play for a ground-control type coach (Reeves) and still
managed to be a winner.
Don B.
Charles Buckley
What do you think lead to Dan Reeves' firing last year? That exact thing. Reeves
wanted to keep control of personel and the owner said no. Look at the draft picks
under Reeves. It is an incredible example of bad first round selections. Reeves was
able to manage to maintain control for a long time as Bowlen gave control to Reeves
because he was new to the NFL and did not want to interfere with the coach. But
it became apparent after the 1990 season that Bowlen was beginning to dislike the
way personnel was being handled.
The final straw for Reeves was his claims that it was his coaching that lead to
the SuperBowls and not Elway's ability. That argument was shattered when Elway
got that nagging injury and could not play... nor could the team win (even against
one of the worst Seattle teams in history .. come to think of it, that Seattle team
was one of the worst teams in history.. averaged about 5 points per game that year).
Charles Buckley
5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu
buc...@refuge.Colorado.EDU (Charles Buckley) writes:
please watch your line lengths.
> The final straw for Reeves was his claims that it
>was his coaching that lead to
>the SuperBowls and not Elway's ability. That
>argument was shattered when Elway
>got that nagging injury and could not play... nor could
>the team win (even against
>one of the worst Seattle teams in history ..
>come to think of it, that Seattle team
>was one of the worst teams in
>history.. averaged about 5 points per game that year).
Elway is a great QB. It was very revelaing to see
the Bronco offense during the 5 or 6 games. That
MNF game against Seatt;le was one of the ugliest games
I ever saw.
I always like to see thwe Broncos as my 3 p.m.
game because of Elway. Last year Hoss was also
very exciting.
Since I am in MKE, I don't get many blackouts
of afternoon games and hence I am looking forward
to seeing those west coast air wars.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"After further review, we have a reversal.
TOUCHDOWN!!!!!!!!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Buckley
A quick note on Doug Flutie: He had signed avery large contract with a
certain USFL team prior to the draft date. No NFL team was willing to take
a chance on him. Charlie Ward is another example of a college player not
getting drafted because he would not commit to the NFL after college. The
NFL will take a chance on players from the service academies (Roger Staubach
from navy comes to mind) because they will commit to the NFL when they are
finished with their prior commitment. (All the above listed are Heisman winners).
Charles Buckley
Stephen M. Barlow
Elway has talent... but his stats have consistantly been, well, less
thatn spectacular! You might say it is a lack of a supporting cast,
but one does NOT make it to the Super Bowl on a QB alone, and he DID
have some pretty damn good teams(and pretty average stats)
I will repeat... why does he always have to come back?
glenferd
> > Have you ever seen a CFL game? It's a little bit
> >different than the NFL. It's not so important to be big and tall
> >in the CFL. There is a premium on speed, and agility. Doug
> >Flutie is a better CFL QB than Warren Moon ever was. Trust me,
> >the guy can play the game
.
It sounds like you are comparing apples and oranges to me.
Wasn't it doug flutie who couldn't hack it in the NFL? Face it, the talent
at QB in the CFL cannot be compared to the NFL. Its ridiculous, the game is
completely different. Wider feild and fewer downs make the defense almost
locked into pass coverage. This means there is a spread out D for the QB to
cut through and less of a pass rush.(ie no 6'9" monster slapping pass back
down your throat every play) The proof is in the pudding, If Flutie could
even come close to competing with the big boys, don't you think that he
would be playing in the NFL?
Wake up EEEhhh!!
Besides, didn't Warren Moon win something like 5 consecutive Grey's cup
titles? We don't see him winning many AFC championships much less
Superbowls do we?
> This guy seems like a great player. At least there
> are starting QB's in this league (NFL) who are
> worse than him.
So what, just because Flutie is not at the very bottom of the barrel
doesn't make him worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as Elway or
Aikman or Young or even Moon. He was exposed as inadequate in the NFL and
then discarded. If he was truly great this would not have happened. Just
imagine what an Aikman or young could accomplish in the CFL.
Rajpal Singh Thiara
different than the NFL. It's not so important to be big and tall
in the CFL. There is a premium on speed, and agility. Doug
Flutie is a better CFL QB than Warren Moon ever was. Trust me,
the guy can play the game.
Raj
>Plata
>
5912ra...@vms.csd.mu.edu
I saw higlights of a game last week in ESPN,
and this guy Flutie was sensational. He had
\ 4 or 5 TD pases and had a electrifying long run for TD
eluding many defenders. This to me was reminiscent of the
way Maradona eluded 6 defenders to score a goal.
This guy seems like a great player. At least there
are starting QB's in this league (NFL) who are
worse than him.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GRECO GIOVANNI VINCENT
they just didn't produce how they needed to during the first three
quarters. Maybe with the pressure situation during the last 2 min of the
game, the broncos were forced to produce. But to ask why Why does Elway
Have to come back. Not just Elway has to come back, but he whole team.
The recievers need to step up and in those situations where they needed
two touchdowns in 2 min (vs. oilers about 3 or 4 years ago) the defense
had to step up as well to get the ball back on offense. But your question
is fairly ridiculous. Why does Elway always (sometimes not always) have
to come back? We could ask millions of those questions. I think the
point is that if we look at his stats (top of the NFL last season) and
look at his production throughout his career, you will see one of the best
quarterbacks in the league. And remember....when the chiefs got past the
oilers it was in the fouth quarter coming down to the wire when Joe
montana made the fourth quarter comeback. And one last thing about the
comebacks (i know I'm rambling). All those time the games were close, and
the Broncos just happened to be the one behind. It wasn't ever like it
was a big blowout and they had to make up a 5 score deficit. A lot of
those "BIG" comebacks were when we were down by 3 pts. or less.
Just my $.02 worth.
giovanni
ODYESSY94
Cuffel) writes:
Elway is one of the greatest quarterbacks ever. Unlike Montana, Elway
never had an All Star cast surrounding him. He was able to perform in the
clutch when he had to with the offense that was around. Remember SF'
defense was always in the NFL's top 5 in their Super Bowl years. Elway
didn't have that benefit.
T. M. Cuffel
Every QB loses from time to time. Great QB's have the tenacity to
to turn some of those losses into wins. It is not Elway, Montana, Marino,
et al, suck, and were always trying to comeback. They took games they
should lost and turned them into wins.
Rajpal Singh Thiara
>In article <Jul28.185...@acs.ucalgary.ca>, rsth...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Rajpal Singh Thiara) writes:
>>>With regard to Flutie's arm... get real. The guys entire career is/was
>>>based on one fucking hail Mary in college. You'll recall nobody was
>>>standing in line to draft him. If you want a great arm thats a bad QB
>>>take Schroeder or Wilson.
>>>
>> Have you ever seen a CFL game? It's a little bit
>>different than the NFL. It's not so important to be big and tall
>>in the CFL. There is a premium on speed, and agility. Doug
>>Flutie is a better CFL QB than Warren Moon ever was. Trust me,
>>the guy can play the game.
>
>
> I saw higlights of a game last week in ESPN,
> and this guy Flutie was sensational. He had
>\ 4 or 5 TD pases and had a electrifying long run for TD
> eluding many defenders. This to me was reminiscent of the
> way Maradona eluded 6 defenders to score a goal.
>
> This guy seems like a great player. At least there
> are starting QB's in this league (NFL) who are
> worse than him.
>
quarters of work. The Stamps had 50 points on the board by
halftime. The offense was really cooking that game. Flutie had
over 400 yards passing and 100 yards rushing. There are many NFL
QBs who wouldn't be as good as Flutie is in the CFL.
Raj
Eber Lambert
> Flutie had six TD passes and 2 TD runs in about 2
>quarters of work. The Stamps had 50 points on the board by
>halftime. The offense was really cooking that game. Flutie had
>over 400 yards passing and 100 yards rushing. There are many NFL
>QBs who wouldn't be as good as Flutie is in the CFL.
I'm sure he could do well against a college team too. Did the other
team have a defense? From the numbers, apparently not much of one.
Skin Flutie suck in the NFL. Maybe he's gotten better. But me thinks
he's just found the right level of competition.
plata
Michael Roca
>From: gln...@lpl.arizona.edu (glenferd)
>Subject: Re: Elway is Overrated !!
>Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 13:42:20 -0800
>> > Have you ever seen a CFL game? It's a little bit
>> >different than the NFL. It's not so important to be big and tall
>> >in the CFL. There is a premium on speed, and agility. Doug
>> >Flutie is a better CFL QB than Warren Moon ever was. Trust me,
>> >the guy can play the game
>.
>It sounds like you are comparing apples and oranges to me.
> Wasn't it doug flutie who couldn't hack it in the NFL? Face it, the talent
>at QB in the CFL cannot be compared to the NFL. Its ridiculous, the game is
>completely different. Wider feild and fewer downs make the defense almost
>locked into pass coverage. This means there is a spread out D for the QB to
>cut through and less of a pass rush.(ie no 6'9" monster slapping pass back
>down your throat every play) The proof is in the pudding, If Flutie could
>even come close to competing with the big boys, don't you think that he
>would be playing in the NFL?
I remember watching Flutie in the NFL. He looked astondingly like a perfectly
average NFL quarterback. No doubt some NFL teams would do better with him
than the bums they have (make your own list). But to claim he'd be at the top
in the NFL is silly.
Mark_Huggins
: Donald P Boell (bo...@hpcc01.corp.hp.com) wrote:
: : Easy.
: First off, while he didn't have pro bowl recievers you did have some pretty
: good recievers (Vance Johnson for one).
: He also had a good, but not great running game (Sammy Winder). And the Brocos
: defense was pretty good. Excluding Elway, this was still a pretty good team.
: Add in the fact that they player in the Wimpy AFC - and that explains how the
: Broncos got to the Super Bowl 3 times.
: Can anyone name some AFC teams that during those years had better teams
: EXCLUDING the QB position ? The list is VERY short.
: Marino's situation, in my opinion was far worse than Elways. Marino
: had absolutely no running game, while having ALL pro recievers. Yet he managed
: to light up the scoreboard. The reason Marino didn't go to the Super Bowl
: 3 times is the Dolphins, unlike the Broncos were also close to last in Defense.
: If you really want to compare a good QB (Elway) to a great QB (Marino) take
: a look at how Marino played against the 16-1 bears in 86 (the Bears only loss
: that year). I saw the game - the Bears completely manhandled the Dolphins
: OL. Marino had absolulely no time to throw the ball - on every play. Yet
: somehow he had the COMPOSURE to avoid the rush long enough to find a reciever
: he could get the ball to (and those recievers were pretty well covered).
: Elway, had his head handed to him against the (86-88) Bears. Why ? Because
: when there is too much of a rush, he can't find a reciever - he can only
: scramble. And while he is a great scrambler - that doesn't quite cut it.
: What separates a good QB (Elway) from a great one (Marino) is being able
: to do it knowing you'll be on the ground in a second - and Elway hasn't shown
: he can do this.
Gees Guy you are as ignorant as they come, you just don't quit (can you say
HARD HEADED).
You keep getting the terms "team" and "individual" confused.
You compare ONE game and base a QB's career on just that one game.
Your statement about Elway not being able to scramble and find a receiver
is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. The best choice for
a quarterback is not to end up hammered to the ground, but to make the pass
AND avoid taking punishment. I'm not putting Marino down either, but Elway
is at least his equal but has a different set of tools to use to get
the same job done.
If you could take a poll of DB's in the NFL as to who they fear at QB the
most Elway is easily in the top three and most likely he's #1.
You don't get respect like that from being just a "good" quarterback.
Don't bother with any response to this post. I'm not asking for your input.
You've obviously not seen Elway play enough (if at all) so don't come back
until you know something about football (which from the looks of your post
should only take you a decade or two).
Gil
First off, while he didn't have pro bowl recievers you did have some pretty
ODYESSY94
(J. D. (Chip) Sample) writes:
5 Best Modern Day QBS
1. Elway
2. Montana
3. Marino
4. MOON
4. Aikman
5. Kelly
J. D. (Chip) Sample
w3we...@fsrz1.rz.uni-passau.de (WEGSCHEIDER ERIK) writes:
Somehow Seahawk players and fans always show a lot of class
(w/ the exception of Bozo), and this is typical. I wish
Seattle weren't in the AFC West. Then I wouldn't have to
root against them twice a year when they play Denver. Go
Seattle, Beat the Raiders.
J. D. (Chip) Sample
Sam...@Shire.AC.ArkNet.edu
J. D. (Chip) Sample
tg...@tudor.com (Gil) writes:
> Elway, had his head handed to him against the (86-88) Bears. Why ? Because
> when there is too much of a rush, he can't find a reciever - he can only
> scramble. And while he is a great scrambler - that doesn't quite cut it.
>
> What separates a good QB (Elway) from a great one (Marino) is being able
> to do it knowing you'll be on the ground in a second - and Elway hasn't shown
> he can do this.
As you said, Marino had all pro receivers, Elway didn't.
Alot of the time you see Elway scramble because no one is
open. You have to watch some Denver games and see how
Elway completes passes. His receivers are never more than
half a step open, and get hit almost the instant the ball
arrives. You almost never see a Denver receiver wide open
so Elway practically has to beam the ball into their chests
for a completion. I don't know why; maybe Reeves' plays,
but maybe its the receivers.
How about somebody finding some stats on how far Denver
receivers run with the ball after a catch and comparing
that with the NFL average (or Clayton and Duper.) I think
that's a decent measure of how open your receivers get.
Don't get me wrong, I think Marino is the best ever, but I
admire how far Elway has gotten (arguably further than
Marino) given the hands he's been dealt.
J. D. (Chip) Sample
Sam...@Shire.AC.ArkNet.edu
Lyon College
Batesville AR 72501
(501) 698-4625
bentz.e.puryear
I don't know how much Elway makes now and I am to busy to go look it up but
he did offer to take a pay cut this year to help the salary cap. I thought
that showed someone who was willing to do what he could to get the people to
go to and win a Super Bowl.
--
============================================================================
Bentz Puryear Who is John Gault ?
AT&T TSC
Denver, Colorado (303)488-6120 Let it Snow !!
U43...@uicvm.uic.edu
Why does he always have to come back?!?!??
1 - He never really had a running back who can control the clock well!
2 - He never really had a defense that can stop the other teams consisently
after he scores!
3 - He is not playing with the kids down the block, he's playing against other
NFL stars like himself!
You take your pick or combinations of them!! That "I don't like Elway soooo he
sucks in my book" routine is worn out! I've followed the Broncos since the mid
80s and yes they have lost 3 superbowls when I watched them. So? Whats your
point? That they've got there and couldn't win? Who were the teams that beat
them? Was it 49ers, Washington, and another ????? Well, the niners were and
are a very good team (my opinion!) and Doug Williams! I don't know what he
took or did during that 2nd quarter air attack on the Denver defense but that
really knocked the air out of the Broncos and ME!
There are defenses that could stop the opponent while their offense ran
the ball and still win games....I don't think the Denver defense is one of
them. Denver defense is good but not that good and while I'm at it - its not
that bad. Take away Elway and see how the defense holds up? No thanks, I
already know. :) Who is better? Aikman, Elway, Marino, Montana? Can't compare,
all played for different teams and with different teammates and philosophies.
I appreciate all of them for what they did with their individual teams. We can
"what if..." forever and it wouldn't solve anything but add more variables to
an already complex equation. This is for all the "Elway this, Elway that"
haters out there. If you hate him that much prove everything he did is nothing
compared to a quarterback you like.
To answer why he always has to come back? To be simple and straight foward.....
he is put in that situation and thats how he deals with it, ok?
P.S. Don't flame me just because I am a Bronco fan.
Rajpal Singh Thiara
>> >different than the NFL. It's not so important to be big and tall
>> >in the CFL. There is a premium on speed, and agility. Doug
>> >Flutie is a better CFL QB than Warren Moon ever was. Trust me,
>> >the guy can play the game
>.
>It sounds like you are comparing apples and oranges to me.
> Wasn't it doug flutie who couldn't hack it in the NFL? Face it, the talent
>at QB in the CFL cannot be compared to the NFL. Its ridiculous, the game is
>completely different.
> Wider feild and fewer downs make the defense almost
>locked into pass coverage. This means there is a spread out D for the QB to
>cut through and less of a pass rush.(ie no 6'9" monster slapping pass back
>down your throat every play) The proof is in the pudding, If Flutie could
>even come close to competing with the big boys, don't you think that he
>would be playing in the NFL?
Flutie was never given a chance in the NFL. They had
already decided long ago that he was too short to play. He came
to the CFL because he was going to have a chance to play.
> Wake up EEEhhh!!
>Besides, didn't Warren Moon win something like 5 consecutive Grey's cup
>titles? We don't see him winning many AFC championships much less
>Superbowls do we?
Warren Moon did win 5 Grey Cups in a row but that's
because he had a GREAT defense and a GREAT running game.
Besides, I think he has played rather well in the NFL.
>> This guy seems like a great player. At least there
>> are starting QB's in this league (NFL) who are
>> worse than him.
>
>So what, just because Flutie is not at the very bottom of the barrel
>doesn't make him worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as Elway or
>Aikman or Young or even Moon. He was exposed as inadequate in the NFL and
>then discarded. If he was truly great this would not have happened. Just
>imagine what an Aikman or young could accomplish in the CFL.
Young would be a great CFL QB. I think Aikman would do
quite well, but he wouldn't look much better than he does in the
NFL(BTW, I'm not saying he doesn't look good in the NFL)
I've never said that Flutie was a great NFL Qb. But he
is a very, talented player for the CFL game. IMO if the NFL adopted
CFL rules, Flutie would be a star in the NFL.
Raj
T. M. Cuffel
Rajpal Singh Thiara <rsth...@acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> Flutie had six TD passes and 2 TD runs in about 2
>quarters of work. The Stamps had 50 points on the board by
>halftime. The offense was really cooking that game. Flutie had
>over 400 yards passing and 100 yards rushing. There are many NFL
>QBs who wouldn't be as good as Flutie is in the CFL.
How does the talent level in the CFL compare with the NFL? The lower
the talent level, the easier it is to be a big fish in a little pond.
Just look at college ball...
Rajpal Singh Thiara
There is no doubt that the talent level is lower in the
CFL. However, the CFL and the NFL aren't always in direct
competition for players. There are many fine US college football
players who have tremendous athletic ability who aren't given a
chance to play in the NFL because they are too small. This isn't
a problem in the CFL. DBs aren't required to support the run
much. LBs are all cover-type guys. A large lb in the CFL weighs
225 lbs. DEs are generally college lbs who weigh in at 230-240
lbs. DT usually weigh about 265 lbs. Such players often aren't
even considered in the NFL.
The name of the game in CFL is speed because the field is
so wide, and there is so much room. There are probably three
passes for every run. Every team's base package involves four
wrs. In general there are no TEs and there are two rbs. There
are twelve players for each team, and each team gets three downs
to make ten yards(Yes, we do use yards)
The field is 110 yards long, and 55 yards wide(??). The
endzone is 20 yards long, and the field goal posts sit on the
goal-line. The game is very quick. Instead of a 40-second
clock, the CFL uses a 25-second clock.
It is an entertaining game. You should try watching it
sometime. You might actually like it.
Raj
Rajpal Singh Thiara
Actually, the team he was playing against were the Grey
Cup championship game losers last year. The level of play in the
CFL is far higher than that of US college football. There will
be four more US teams next year. Maybe then you will actually
get a chance to take a look at that which you have prejudged.
Raj
Rajpal Singh Thiara
said is that he is the prototypical CFL QB. Why do you think
that you are better able to judge this than I am? I have watched
both league for about 13 years now. How many CFL games have you
seen in your whole life? One?
Raj
DAVE REEB
>EXCLUDING the QB position ? The list is VERY short.
If the Broncos had such a tremendously talented team during these years, how
come very few of them made the pro bowl? How many of these so called
talented players will be in the hall of fame? One. John Elway. Sammy
Winder isn't going to the HOF. None of their offensive lineman even made
the pro bowl. None of Elways wide receivers ever made the pro bowl. None
of the tight ends ever made the pro bowl until Shannon Sharpe came about.
If this team is was so much more talented than the rest of the AFC, why
couldn't they even get in the pro bowl. They were competeting against
weaker afc players and they still couldn't make it.
>If you really want to compare a good QB (Elway) to a great QB (Marino) take
>a look at how Marino played against the 16-1 bears in 86 (the Bears only loss
>that year). I saw the game - the Bears completely manhandled the Dolphins
>OL. Marino had absolulely no time to throw the ball - on every play. Yet
>somehow he had the COMPOSURE to avoid the rush long enough to find a reciever
>he could get the ball to (and those recievers were pretty well covered).
I totally agree with you. One game of a players career makes them great.
That's all you need to be considered the best. Have one good game and you
should go to the hall of fame. That's the way it ought to be!
>Elway, had his head handed to him against the (86-88) Bears. Why ? Because
>when there is too much of a rush, he can't find a reciever - he can only
>scramble. And while he is a great scrambler - that doesn't quite cut it.
You're right again. I guess that Monday night game against the Bears in I
believe 1987 never happened. I'm taking about the one where Elway played
tremendously and single handedly won the game by 1 or 2 points with a last
minute drive. That's not to bad considering he "had his head handed to
him." Elway never played the almost undefeated Bears the year before or
they probably would have had 2 blemishes on their record. Since you are
measuring greatness by the amount of times that you defeat the Bears, I
guess you'll have to agree that Elway is just as good if not much better
than your pal Marino.
>What separates a good QB (Elway) from a great one (
Marino) is being able>to do it knowing you'll be on the ground in a second -
and Elway hasn't shown>he can do this.
That's exactly what makes someone great. If you're an athlete and are able
to avoid the rush so you don't end up on the ground in a second, then you
are only good and not great. A great QB doesn't move out of the way, he
just stands there like an uncoordinated idiot and takes the shot.
Face it, Marino has had a tremendous offensive line over the years. Elway
has had a horrendous offensive line over the years. Marino has had all-pro
wide receivers over the years. Elway has never had a pro-bowl receiver to
throw the ball too. The Broncos have had the best defense in football over
the years. That's why they gave up 40+ points each super bowl. But I guess
Marino wouldn't know about Super Bowls since he's only made it there
once. Elway has accomplished far more than Marino with far less talent
surrounding him. Elway is great. Marino is good. Just wait until the
season and we will see who the better QB is.
Let the games begin!
Dave
Elway all the way!!!
DAVE REEB
replying to what tg...@tudor.com had stated. It looks like I replied to Don
Boell instead.
Sorry,
Dave
david neal
: >a look at how Marino played against the 16-1 bears in 86 (the Bears only loss
If you want to compare a GREAT QB TO A GOOD ONE. Then Compare a TWO
TIME SB WINNING QB to these guys. TROY AIKMAN!!!!!! case closed!
: Let the games begin!
STEEGMANN THOMAS D
>: >If you really want to compare a good QB (Elway) to a great QB (Marino) take
>: >a look at how Marino played against the 16-1 bears in 86 (the Bears only loss
>
>
>If you want to compare a GREAT QB TO A GOOD ONE. Then Compare a TWO
>TIME SB WINNING QB to these guys. TROY AIKMAN!!!!!! case closed!
DUH BOYZZZ IS DU BEST TEEM EVAR!!! TROI AKEMAN ES THE BIST KUATERBAK EVER!!
HE IS GODD!! GO BOYZZ!!!
I think its pretty hard to compare aikman to anyone, since he has a good
team around him. Take away Emmitt Smith, and I think you are left with a
pretty average QB. I guess its time for the bandwagoneers to hop on the
r.s.f.p train again. Oh joy. Does anyone want to venture to guess who will
be the next big bandwagon team? Lets say that Dallas doesnt have a great
year, who'll be next?
tds
Antony Sew Hoy
>If you want to compare a GREAT QB TO A GOOD ONE. Then Compare a TWO
>TIME SB WINNING QB to these guys. TROY AIKMAN!!!!!! case closed!
Haven't we been through this idiot notion before?
Why don't you quit it? Failing that, open your mind.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Antony Sew Hoy is: |"This is a song about a superhero named Tony.
pal...@akeake.its.vuw.ac.nz | It's called TONY'S THEME!" - The Pixies
pal...@mu.sans.vuw.ac.nz |_______________________________________________
Antony_...@equinox.gen.nz|"The superfluous is very necessary" - Neitzsche
_____________________________________________________________________________
glenferd
(Rajpal Singh Thiara) wrote:
> In article <roca_michael...@tandem.com> roca_m...@tandem.com Why do you think
> that you are better able to judge this than I am? I have watched
> both league for about 13 years now. How many CFL games have you
> seen in your whole life? One?
>
As a matter of fact, I lived in Seattle for six years and dated a woman in
VancouverBC for most of that time (from '83-89) I've been watching Canadian
football off and on for eleven years. So, I've watched my share of CFL
games and have been watching the NFL since 1972. Certainly, this is long
long enough to form a reasonable opinion about the two.
Besides, Your own ridiculous praises of Doug Flutie are indication enough
of who is the better judge of football talent. Get a grip, Doug Flutie
played for what, two or three NFL teams and displayed absolutely no
competence whatsoever.
So, He's a star in the bush league, congratulations! I'm happy for the both
of you.
Glenn
Andre Elliott
glenferd <gln...@lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
>
>> > Have you ever seen a CFL game? It's a little bit
>> >different than the NFL. It's not so important to be big and tall
>> >in the CFL. There is a premium on speed, and agility. Doug
>> >Flutie is a better CFL QB than Warren Moon ever was. Trust me,
>> >the guy can play the game
Didnt Warren Moon Win 5 Grey Cups when he played in the CFL?
DRE.
glenferd
Elliott) wrote:
(" in article <glnfrd-28...@helio.lpl.arizona.edu>,
( glenferd <gln...@lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:
( Have you ever seen a CFL game? It's a little bit
(different than the NFL. It's not so important to be big and tall
(in the CFL. There is a premium on speed, and agility. Doug
(Flutie is a better CFL QB than Warren Moon ever was. Trust me,the guy can
play (the game"
> Didnt Warren Moon Win 5 Grey Cups when he played in the CFL?
> DRE.
Yes, and I (glenferd) already established that fact. You clipped the wrong
quoter I think.
Rajpal Singh Thiara
Jim Germany, Dave Fenell, Dan Kepley, etc... BTW, these were
great CFL players.
I've seen Warren Moon play in the CFL, and he was a fine
CFL QB, he just isn't as good as Flutie. Flutie is a better CFL
QB than Moon was in the same way that Marino is better than
Bradshaw was.(BTW, Flutie would have made it two in a row last
year except that the heaters on Calgary's side of the field broke
down, and he had frostbite, and a mild case of hypothermia. He
could hardly hold onto the ball, but he was still out there
playing when the final gun sounded)
Raj
WEGSCHEIDER ERIK
Keith Glasson
: What the hell does Doug Flutie and Warren Moon have to do with Elway?!?
None of them have ever won a Super Bowl?
-Keith (just guessing!)
--
glenferd
> None of them have ever won a Super Bowl?
>
> -Keith (just guessing!)
> --
Darn it Kieth, Why did you have to bring that up? Aren't you tired of
beating a dead horse?:-)
Glenn
CLESTE OAKES
but he racks up yards because the offense is ALL passing. Let's see him
come back this year. I agree with a previous writer that without Emmitt,
your precious Troy is average at best. There is no one for the defenses
to worry about in the backfield. Let's see Troy do his thing with
defenses sending 6 or even 7 back in coverage. Elway has been to 4 SBs
and has engineered 26 4th quarter comebacks, proving that he can perform
under pressure. Elway may not be the best but he's not overrated.
Nate McConnell
Exactly what FOUR superbowls were Mr. elway in?
Nate
Keith Glasson
: First of all, let's compare Marino and Elway. Marino is good, granted,
Aikman average at best? Smith gives defenses something to worry
about, but that isn't what makes Aikman look so good. He looks
good because he is good, not average. Shop him around the league
and see how many other "average" QBs suddenly become not good
enough.
-Keith (Not a Cowboy Fan)
Tony Lima
NA>In article j...@post-office.nevada.edu, ce...@nevada.edu (CLESTE OAKES) writes
>>First of all, let's compare Marino and Elway. Marino is good, granted,
>>but he racks up yards because the offense is ALL passing. Let's see him
>>to worry about in the backfield. Let's see Troy do his thing with
...
>>defenses sending 6 or even 7 back in coverage. Elway has been to 4 SBs
>>and has engineered 26 4th quarter comebacks, proving that he can perform
NA>Exactly what FOUR superbowls were Mr. elway in?
And how many did he win? -- Tony (tony...@toadhall.com)
Donald P Boell
>Exactly what FOUR superbowls were Mr. elway in?
Why the previous three plus this years silly.
Don B.