The weed - educate me

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Is marijuana safer than hydrocodone and/or oxycontin for constant
pain?

Does it relieve pain as well or better than legally prescribed drugs?

I've never hurt that bad, but I know someone who does.

Hugh

[michael anderson]

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 7:31:02 AM UTC-5, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
> Is marijuana safer than hydrocodone and/or oxycontin for constant
> pain?

yes....so is a million other things. Me watching an episode of forensics files right now is also safer than opiates/opioids for pain. me clipping my toenails is. My blood pressure pill is too.

>
> Does it relieve pain as well or better than legally prescribed drugs?

marijuana has no indication as a pain killer.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 07:45:18 -0700 (PDT), michael anderson
<miande...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 7:31:02 AM UTC-5, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>> Is marijuana safer than hydrocodone and/or oxycontin for constant
>> pain?
>
>yes....so is a million other things. Me watching an episode of forensics files right now is also safer than opiates/opioids for pain. me clipping my toenails is. My blood pressure pill is too.

Of course I only wanted to compare the two for someone who might want
to switch. I'm not sure the other instances you mentioned are
pertinent.

Nothing is safer for me - I still have most of my hydrocodone left
over from bypass surgery in 1996 and a tooth extraction a few years
ago. I had rather have a little pain than get hooked. Too many people
think it doesn't matter if you are 80+ years old. I think it does.

>> Does it relieve pain as well or better than legally prescribed drugs?
>
>marijuana has no indication as a pain killer.

I think that gets us to science arguing with reality.

I read where numerous people get pain relief from marijuana. Plus I
know of at least 2 instances where users have orally communicated the
fact that it helped.

Hugh

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

Meh. Maybe. I’ve not read any studies.

Right now, weed is the backup QB. Everyone SAYS it’s better, but nobody really knows.

Pot has its own issues.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:00:07 -0700 (PDT), "the_andr...@yahoo.com"
<the_andr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Meh. Maybe. I=E2=80=99ve not read any studies.=20
>
>Right now, weed is the backup QB. Everyone SAYS it=E2=80=99s better, but no=
>body really knows.=20

"In the beauty salon" last week a woman told my wife about her sister
who had tried a lot of stuff for pain from cancer - nothing helped
very much UNTIL she tried the weed. She died later but the pain before
death was alleviated.

>Pot has its own issues.

Is there not some common sense or logic that can be applied here? If
marijuana eases the pain and nothing else has equivalent effect what's
the problem? If 80 or older who cares about issues with pot?

Well, I would unless it worked.

Hugh

[michael anderson]

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 2:00:09 PM UTC-5, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Meh. Maybe. I’ve not read any studies.
>

there are studies on marijuana for pain. Just as there are studies on marijuana for a variety of other things.

None of those show any real improvement above placebo.

the evidence is fairly robust at this point that there is little if any evidence for marijuana for use in medicine(perhaps for nausea and anorexia secondary to some medical states).

That isn't a comment on whether marijuana should be legal or not. It's just a comment on marijuana with respect to medicine. Marijuana and medicine have absolutely nothing in common and it pisses me off when people try to link the two in some fashion.

[Ken Olson]

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/109464-in-strict-medical-terms-marijuana-is-far-safer-than-many


“In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we
commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a
toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough
marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the
safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of
rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised
routine of medical care.

[DEA Administrative Law Judge - 1988]”

― Francis Young

--
The thing worse than rebellion is the thing that causes rebellion.
Frederick Douglass

[michael anderson]

of course this is referring to acute toxicity. Everyone agrees you can't overdose from marijuana in the same way you can from oxycodone, insulin, etc...

But chronic dangers are different...

and none of the safety issues relates to whether it is actually good for any diseases either.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 12:52:21 -0700 (PDT), michael anderson
<miande...@gmail.com> wrote:

>there are studies on marijuana for pain. Just as there are studies on mari=
>juana for a variety of other things. =20
>
>None of those show any real improvement above placebo. =20
>
>the evidence is fairly robust at this point that there is little if any evi=
>dence for marijuana for use in medicine(perhaps for nausea and anorexia sec=
>ondary to some medical states).

At the same time one can't escape the fact that some people report
actual pain relief. I doubt that every report is by a person who is
presenting an excuse to continue recreational use.

Do the studies report that the drug never worked in 50,000 of 50,000
tests - or that it appeared to work in only one of the cases. If there
are exceptions why not give it a try? I suppose because too many
people are looking for an excuse.

>That isn't a comment on whether marijuana should be legal or not. It's jus=
>t a comment on marijuana with respect to medicine. Marijuana and medicine =
>have absolutely nothing in common and it pisses me off when people try to l=

>ink the two in some fashion.

If I was in severe pain, and rumors said marijuana would help, I would
not let medical studies or laws stand in my way. I hope I never have
to decide.

Another point to consider, how final are studies? Seems to me many of
them are constantly being revised.

Hugh

[Mercellus Bohren]

Just a swag here, but the high from smoking week may divert one's attention away from focusing on one's pain.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Interesting point. Of course I find that staying busy does that (but I
don't have severe pain). I have no way to compare it to alcohol BUT..

...seems to me like the amout of consumption might control that, i.e.,
pass out.

I guess it winds up as sort of a Catch 22 - if one is in constant,
severe pain and suicide is not an option, is passing out the only
substitute for toleration?

If one is an alcoholic he did not BECOME one, he always was. Can one
become a marijuaniac, i.e., is it habit-forming?

Hugh

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

If I was in constant pain and had only opioids to address it, I would surely give weed a chance.

...or five.

I’ve seen some cannibinoid studies come across my desk, but I don’t remember any for pain, nor do I remember any using an opioid as a comparator.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 11:03:02 -0700 (PDT), "the_andr...@yahoo.com"
<the_andr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>If I was in constant pain and had only opioids to address it, I would surel=
>y give weed a chance.=20
>
>...or five.=20

That is the situation so I think that is what I will tell the one who
asked. It's one of those "take my advice I have no plans for using it"
instances.

Hugh

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 7:31:02 AM UTC-5, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:

By far on the first - better than most on the second - depending on the type of pain

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Thankee.

Huh

[michael anderson]

http://www.cochrane.org/CD012182/SYMPT_cannabis-products-adults-chronic-neuropathic-pain

cochrane(which is the gold standard) or a bunch of dudes on rsfc....I know which way Im going.

Note that this is for neuropathic pain, which is the one type of pain that lesser sources speculate may actually be somewhat responsive to.

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

I don’t think there’s much in the way of data from controlled experiments that say it’s safer. I haven’t seen any data that say it’s better on pain, either.

I have some industry acquaintances that seem to have jumped on a research version of “free the herb” as if the FDA is the big roadblock here. Everything I’ve seen are tiny studies or using Cannabinoids as an adjunct to opioids.

I assume none of the big Cannabinoid manufacturers want to go head to head or they would’ve done so. An academic institution will do it eventually.

I can get the answers for you, but it will cost several million dollars.

[Ken Olson]

The DEA is the biggest roadblock to wide research. The Israelis are far
ahead of us in the research of marijuana and cannabinoids.

[Ken Olson]

There are studies that show that opioid prescription numbers have
dropped in states that allow marijuana use.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2676999

[Ken Olson]

Here's a CNN report on the JAMA article I posted earlier.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/02/health/medical-cannabis-law-opioid-prescription-study/index.html

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 22:50:03 -0400, Ken Olson <kol...@freedomnet.org>
wrote:

>Here's a CNN report on the JAMA article I posted earlier.
>
>
>https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/02/health/medical-cannabis-law-opioid-prescription-study/index.html

An article in the morning rag states the same thing with two other
observations...

Cannabis does alleviate pain BUT it may also cause an increase in the
use of opiods.

Since we are humans, not automatons, I suspect researchers can find
evidence to make any case they wish.

My current thought is that last resort > endure - and that is what I
will advise. My presumption is that each person is the master of his
habits, not the slave.

Hugh

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

I'm speaking of scoliosis...

Google...
"Many patients with adult scoliosis do not have any specific symptoms.
... As the curvature leads to disc degeneration and changes in the
bones of the spine, a number of symptoms can occur. Symptoms may
include back pain, spinal stiffness and even nerve pain."

From your quoted study it would appear to me there is a POSSIBILITY
that cannabis could alleviate non-neuropathic pain.

I never use opinions or studies to make my decisions. I try to obtain
as many facts as possible and any decisions are my own, not others. My
advice is not a decision.

I appreciate the scientific evidence you offer but, so far I see no
harm in testing by a person in constant pain that opiods can't handle.

As for me I'll have one drink most nights and avoid the weed. I think
I took 1 hydrocodone last year. The date on the container is 10/31/14.

Hugh

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 17:41:20 -0700 (PDT), "the_andr...@yahoo.com"
<the_andr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I don=E2=80=99t think there=E2=80=99s much in the way of data from controll=
>ed experiments that say it=E2=80=99s safer. I haven=E2=80=99t seen any data=
> that say it=E2=80=99s better on pain, either. =20
>
>I have some industry acquaintances that seem to have jumped on a research v=
>ersion of =E2=80=9Cfree the herb=E2=80=9D as if the FDA is the big roadbloc=
>k here. Everything I=E2=80=99ve seen are tiny studies or using Cannabinoids=
> as an adjunct to opioids.=20
>
>I assume none of the big Cannabinoid manufacturers want to go head to head =
>or they would=E2=80=99ve done so. An academic institution will do it eventu=
>ally.=20

>
>I can get the answers for you, but it will cost several million dollars.

I think my question is, did it help anyone or was no one helped. Human
reaction varies. Seems like one has to try to know in this instance.

Hugh

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

Generally won’t hurt to try.

[Ken Olson]

On 4/3/2018 8:14 AM, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Generally won’t hurt to try.
>

Legal ramifications, where it is illegal, are the worst side-effect.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:22:19 -0400, Ken Olson <kol...@freedomnet.org>
wrote:

>On 4/3/2018 8:14 AM, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Generally won’t hurt to try.
>>
>
>Legal ramifications, where it is illegal, are the worst side-effect.

Laws are essentially advice - unless you get caught.

If you get caught, that's how lawyers earn their money.

Hugh

[Ken Olson]

On 4/2/2018 2:03 PM, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:

I've seen studies that show that opioid use reductions in states with
legal cannabis.

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

It would likely decrease some opioid abuse. It’s certainly easier to get a medical marijuana card than to get opioid prescriptions.

[Ken Olson]

On 5/4/2018 8:49 AM, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> It would likely decrease some opioid abuse. It’s certainly easier to get a medical marijuana card than to get opioid prescriptions.
>

Plus, it doesn't cause constipation.

--
We're going to fight racism not with racism, but we're going to fight
with solidarity.
Fred Hampton