Early look at Trump's tax plan

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Obviously subject to massive changes

* Cap Gain Top 20% (down from 28%)
* Income Top 35% (down from 39.6%)
* Std Deduction up 2x
* Death Tax Out
* Eliminate ALL tax deductions other than mortgage and charity
* Cut AMT

[xyzzy]

The biggest hit this causes is the loss of deductibility for state income or sales taxes.

Other than that it looks good.

> * Cut AMT

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

I could live with that.

Overall - I like the above - which means it ain't gonna happen in a million years.

[xyzzy]

It's like every tax reform proposal ever. Looks good before the lobbyists get their hands on it.

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

On 2017-04-26, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 1:53:09 PM UTC-4, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
>> Obviously subject to massive changes
>>
>> * Cap Gain Top 20% (down from 28%)
>> * Income Top 35% (down from 39.6%)
>> * Std Deduction up 2x
>> * Death Tax Out
>> * Eliminate ALL tax deductions other than mortgage and charity
>
> The biggest hit this causes is the loss of deductibility for state income or sales taxes.

Raising the standard deduction takes care of that for the middle class.

>
> Other than that it looks good.
>
>> * Cut AMT
>

I agree.

--
I don't want to get to the end of my life and find I have just
lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as
well. -- Diane Ackerman

[xyzzy]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 2:32:40 PM UTC-4, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> On 2017-04-26, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 1:53:09 PM UTC-4, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> >> Obviously subject to massive changes
> >>
> >> * Cap Gain Top 20% (down from 28%)
> >> * Income Top 35% (down from 39.6%)
> >> * Std Deduction up 2x
> >> * Death Tax Out
> >> * Eliminate ALL tax deductions other than mortgage and charity
> >
> > The biggest hit this causes is the loss of deductibility for state income or sales taxes.
>
> Raising the standard deduction takes care of that for the middle class.

I wonder how many fewer people would end up itemizing. I'm sure the numbers are somewhere or will be shortly.

Note this also has the effect of reducing the value of the remaining deductions, mortgage and charity, for people who will no longer itemize.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Absolutely. The middle class should love this, for the most part

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

I did not itemize a couple of years when my charitable giving was a
bit lower. If you have no mortgage, and no state income tax, it is harder to
find the expenses. The past couple of years medical expenses and
charitable giving have meant itemizing....

--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
-- Mark Twain

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

The first problem I see is no deduction for medical. SInce Medicare
Pays 80% and Tricare 20%, and no prescribed drug costs more than $49
for a 90 day supply, I really don't have a dog in that fight.

But medical expenses are usually unavoidable and they don't bypass
people who did their best but can't pay.

I have some concern about exhorbitant executive pay and no death
taxes. But I don't know how to stop productive people from being
productive.

Hugh

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

I don't know. Seems top-loaded, sorta literally.

Feels like that thing where they cut revenue and increase spending to make a point. Doesn't that end with those same people pointing their fingers and saying "See - we TOLD you the government was incompetent!!"?

Cheers.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 9:50:10 PM UTC-5, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-5, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 1:35:08 PM UTC-5, xyzzy wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 2:32:40 PM UTC-4, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> > > > > On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 1:53:09 PM UTC-4, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> > > > >> Obviously subject to massive changes
> > > > >>
> > > > >> * Cap Gain Top 20% (down from 28%)
> > > > >> * Income Top 35% (down from 39.6%)
> > > > >> * Std Deduction up 2x
> > > > >> * Death Tax Out
> > > > >> * Eliminate ALL tax deductions other than mortgage and charity
> > > > >
> > > > > The biggest hit this causes is the loss of deductibility for state income or sales taxes.
> > > >
> > > > Raising the standard deduction takes care of that for the middle class.
> > >
> > > I wonder how many fewer people would end up itemizing. I'm sure the numbers are somewhere or will be shortly.
> > >
> > > Note this also has the effect of reducing the value of the remaining deductions, mortgage and charity, for people who will no longer itemize.
> >
> > Absolutely. The middle class should love this, for the most part
>
>
> I don't know. Seems top-loaded, sorta literally.

The cap gains and lowering brackets part? Sure. The increased standard deduct and removal of most deductions? Nope - that'll hurt people at the higher end of the brackets - many middle class down don't itemize and the squeeze will be felt higher up.

My initial take away would be some good/bad higher end, mostly good lower and some not able to participate in on the lower end.

> Feels like that thing where they cut revenue and increase spending to make a point. Doesn't that end with those same people pointing their fingers and saying "See - we TOLD you the government was incompetent!!"?
>

Well, it IS the gop, so your confirmation bias is smoking hot - and probably rightfully sol.

[Marty McMahone]

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 5:23:41 AM UTC-5, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:

> The cap gains and lowering brackets part? Sure. The increased standard deduct and removal of most deductions? Nope - that'll hurt people at the higher end of the brackets - many middle class down don't itemize and the squeeze will be felt higher up.

If you doubled the standard deduction, I know that I'd never be close to itemizing. Even with buying a new house, my interest payments this year will only be about $2K; and obviously, they'll be going down from there. It'd take some serious charitable giving to get near the deduction point -- which would be around $25K for a couple.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

I'm happy to see deductions disappear.

We might have to move to Florida or Texas.

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

On 2017-04-27, the_andr...@yahoo.com <agavi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm happy to see deductions disappear.
>
> We might have to move to Florida or Texas.

I am enjoying living in Florida....heading north to start my journey
of the ultimate downsize. Selling the northern house and going rootless.

Anyone want to buy a houseful of furniture, a bunch of tools, and
a hippie van full of pro sound equipment?

--
The tenor's voice is spoilt by affectation,
And for the bass, the beast can only bellow;
In fact, he had no singing education,
An ignorant, noteless, timeless, tuneless fellow. -- Lord Byron

[agavi...@gmail.com]

You can drop off hand tools in NC.

[Emperor Wonko the Sane]

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 9:50:10 PM UTC-5, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:
>

> Feels like that thing where they cut revenue and increase spending to make a point. Doesn't that end with those same people pointing their fingers and saying "See - we TOLD you the government was incompetent!!"?
>

Ooh, that is a good rationalization. Government would be good at economic decisions if it wasn't for right wing sabotage.

Doug

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

Where did I say they would be good at those decisions under any conditions, doug?

Right. Someday you could really shock me and score some of those usenet gotcha points you're so in love with without pretending I said something I didn't actually say. Won't hold my breath, though.

Cheers.

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

That was always the claim of Communist governments who had failures, and
it is the claim of Venezuela's failed Socialist government now.

--
Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing.
-- Wernher Von Braun

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 19:50:09 -0700 (PDT), dotsla...@gmail.com
wrote:

>Feels like that thing where they cut revenue and increase spending to make a point. Doesn't that end with those same people pointing their fingers and saying "See - we TOLD you the government was incompetent!!"?

Part of the spending increase is interest on the Obama deficits.
Eliminate UnACA subsidy and put the burden on the states. Start drug
testing people with unearned government income. Cover congress with
the same benefits as most citizens. Sooner or later the budget might
be balanced.

The increased standard deduction is neat - it helps lower income
people and the wealthy won't notice the difference. But give
deductions to entitled people for essential health care service. Again
this would benefit lower income people most.

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

Note that neither of you have voiced any issue with the "increasing spending" side of that equation. Because you don't care. You're gonna blow up spending, decrease revenue, and pretend the money you're borrowing from future generations is evidence of successful conservative policy. Like you always do, going back to saint ronnie.

Ron Paul weeps. Why do you guys do that to Ron? There used to be a few of y'all on the right that at least talked about balancing the old checkbook. What happened to those guys?

Cheers.

[xyzzy]

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 10:15:56 AM UTC-4, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> You can drop off hand tools in NC.

and just FYI, andrews house is more out of your way than mine

[agavi...@gmail.com]

I'm willing to meet you on the roadside.

[michael anderson]

On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 8:43:57 AM UTC-5, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm happy to see deductions disappear.
>
> We might have to move to Florida or Texas.

this is generally always a good idea for people who work and are at least average earners.

I'm not sure what in the hell alabama does with the massive amount of money I give them every month that florida or tennessee(I dont know much about texas) doesn't offer.

I've spent significant time in both florida and tennessee....the roads are just as good, the education system is certainly no worse(and where it is good in alabama in places like mtn brook that has nothing to do with state money but local money), the state parks are better, the state politicians are certainly no more corrupt....

I've yet to find a good answer for what in the hell Alabama does with my money in state income tax every month that Florida or Tennessee doesn't offer....despite them not confiscating a boatload of money from peoples paychecks every month.

The usual drivel about "oh you just pay for it in other ways in those states so it comes out the same" is not even close to true for some people. Even if sales tax were higher in most of tennessee or florida(and it's 10% here in most areas where I shop), you're still talking about several hundred dollars a year vs 5 figures a year. Same for property tax differences.....

Literally when I see a lot of people here in alabama in their 50s saying 'gosh I wish I could save more for retirement", I point out that the reason they havent been able to save more for retirement is because the state has confiscated thousands upon thousands of dollars from them every month relative to tennessee/texas/florida, and if they had lived in those states their retirement portfolios would look very very different.

[wolfie]

"michael anderson" wrote

> I'm not sure what in the hell alabama does with
> the massive amount of money I give them every
> month

You paid part of the salary for the women's basketball
assistant coach at Alabama A&M.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Now you're just tonting him