wtf is wrong with us when even come corporations/bosses now tolerate this stuff......

[michael anderson]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/health/mental-health-response-from-company-ceo-trnd/?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool

"mental health day"??

WTF?

I dont really employ people(as part of a side venture me and 3 other people have a few part time people) so maybe Im not one to talk, but if I had regular employees and they told me they were taking a 'mental health day' then they'd be dismissed that very moment.

Amazing...

[plai...@gmail.com]

She told CNN she suffers from chronic anxiety, depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. And every now and then, she needs to take some time to focus on her well-being.

"I had experienced several nights of insomnia and was poorly rested and also having lots of suicidal thoughts, which make it difficult to accomplish much at work," she said.

Seems like a valid reason to take a few days off. I wouldn't be too bothered if they had her use vacation time instead of leave. It would depend on what kind of employee she was and what her sick leave record was. I know I'd have a hard time dealing with it if I said no and she went home and hanged herself.

I'd expect a psychiatric doctor to have some empathy, but it's you, so I'm not surprised.

[irishra...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 1:16:50 AM UTC-4, plai...@gmail.com wrote:
> She told CNN she suffers from chronic anxiety, depression and post-traumatic stress disorder. And every now and then, she needs to take some time to focus on her well-being.
>
> "I had experienced several nights of insomnia and was poorly rested and also having lots of suicidal thoughts, which make it difficult to accomplish much at work," she said.
>
> Seems like a valid reason to take a few days off.

Seems like a valid reason to give her a mandatory referral to a mental health professional.

Irish Mike

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

One of the problems with empathy in this area is that so many
people have used this cynically when they had no need. It is also
true that many people work through hard times and times of no sleep,
and have little sympathy with people "tapping out" in a similar situation.
I do know that bad depression is very bad, and that most people don't
suffer deep levels of clinical depression, but it is difficult to
sympathize having gone through some of those same things myself.

It's kind of like what happens when I attempt to help people with
computers. They have had their hands on them a lot, and viscerally
they think they know what they are doing and they'll push back on my
suggested procedure for finding their problem, which, if followed,
would succeed. When you've had some experience with something, you
think you know what you are talking about even though you don't.

Another example is service dogs. It's amazing how many people game
that now that it is possible. At least 80% of them have no need or
simply don't use the dog in that way. "Emotional Support Dog" my ass.`
Of course I am scorning the one on 20 people who actually need them.
But I'll run that risk.

--
Making the simple complex, that is easy -- anyone can do that.
But to make the complex simple, awesomely simple, that is
true creativity. -- Charles Mingus

[unclejr]

Here fishy fishy fishy...

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 22:16:47 -0700 (PDT), plai...@gmail.com wrote:


>Seems like a valid reason to take a few days off.

Seems like a valid reason to replace her.

In 33 years I never had a sick day - one of the other two involved
surgery and one was for a 1 hour doctor appointment that should not
have been a sick day.

Liberal is unhealthy.

Hugh



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[GrtArtiste]

It's real easy to brag about what you "would" do "if" that happens, but
I'll bet when it does happen you'll be whistling a different tune.

I wouldn't be stupid enough to say "mental health day" out loud,
although I have used "doctor appointment" and "funeral for a friend"
without serious repercussions. However, the bosses usually expect me to
make up the hours that I miss and get bitchy if I don't. Fuck 'em. When
the unACA took effect our available hours were reduced by more than 25%.
They lost a lot of good people who just couldn't eat that much of a pay
cut. We never did have paid vacation or holidays. Now we get 20 hours
PTO every 6 months (it used to be 30).

They also took away a company-funded legacy pension plan and gave us the
option to either let the existing plan continue with no further
contributions or to convert it into some vague kind of investment
wherein the company would match any employee contributions. That didn't
last long, and I know of one employee who did convert and ended up
losing every dime she had (probably about $14K because I had $10K at the
time and she had been there longer). Fortunately, I did not convert and
was able to pull my money out when I got laid off in 2014, but I had to
use it to pay bills because I was laid off so the money disappeared
anyway. I accepted a rehire because I had no better choices and because
it enables me to work from home and I'm able to provide supervision/care
as needed for a family member who resides here.

GrtArtiste

[michael anderson]

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 8:01:19 AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> On 2017-07-16, plai...@gmail.com <plai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > She told CNN she suffers from chronic anxiety, depression and post-
> > traumatic stress disorder. And every now and then, she needs to take
> > some time to focus on her well-being.
> >
> > "I had experienced several nights of insomnia and was poorly rested
> > and also having lots of suicidal thoughts, which make it difficult
> > to accomplish much at work," she said.
> >
> > Seems like a valid reason to take a few days off. I wouldn't be too
> > bothered if they had her use vacation time instead of leave. It
> > would depend on what kind of employee she was and what her sick
> > leave record was. I know I'd have a hard time dealing with it if I
> > said no and she went home and hanged herself.
> >
> > I'd expect a psychiatric doctor to have some empathy, but it's you,
> > so I'm not surprised.
>
> One of the problems with empathy in this area is that so many
> people have used this cynically when they had no need. It is also
> true that many people work through hard times and times of no sleep,
> and have little sympathy with people "tapping out" in a similar situation.

Absolutely. If you're anxious or tired or down, you still get your ass to work.

I think(no i know) things have tilted way too much in the direction of the worker in this country. Mandatory overtime and all these other protections have just made things ridiculous....

[Some dued]

If you have depression a mental health day or month will do nothing to remedy the problem.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

LOL. those are called sick days

[Ken Olson]

In this area, you know little about which you speak.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 08:01:11 -0700 (PDT), michael anderson
<miande...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Absolutely. If you're anxious or tired or down, you still get your ass to work.

I now know tired. I don't know down unless it's on a duck.

In my mind PTSD was invented for weak people and they jumped on the
bandwagon. Most, not all, people from my era worked out their
problems. Liberals emerged about the time of Nam to increase the
number of weak people.

>I think(no i know) things have tilted way too much in the direction of the worker in this country. Mandatory overtime and all these other protections have just made things ridiculous....

That's not so cut and dried. Employer and employee loyalty has
disappeared. Liberal policies caused frustrated businesseses and
employees to react in a manner that distresses both.

That's not to say that employees before my time didn't get the short
end of the stick, but libs overcompensated with their stupids.

I believed my employer owned me for a minimum of 8 hours per work day
for 35 years and my loyalty for life. And I suspect I'm the happiest
person on rsfc.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sun, 16 Jul 2017 10:06:54 -0400, GrtArtiste <nine...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 7/15/2017 11:52 PM, michael anderson wrote:
>> http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/health/mental-health-response-from-company-ceo-trnd/?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool
>>
>> "mental health day"??
>>
>> WTF?
>>
>> I dont really employ people(as part of a side venture me and 3 other people have a few part time people) so maybe Im not one to talk, but if I had regular employees and they told me they were taking a 'mental health day' then they'd be dismissed that very moment.
>>
>> Amazing...
>>
>
>It's real easy to brag about what you "would" do "if" that happens, but
>I'll bet when it does happen you'll be whistling a different tune.
>
>I wouldn't be stupid enough to say "mental health day" out loud,
>although I have used "doctor appointment" and "funeral for a friend"
>without serious repercussions. However, the bosses usually expect me to
>make up the hours that I miss and get bitchy if I don't.

It's different when you are responsible for a job and don't have to
punch a time clock. The personal time I took during working hours was
to officiate games for local schools - and that was with the company
blessing.

I remember asking for real personal time once and I was told (1) not
to ask (2) just let my secretary know where I would be.

>When
>the unACA took effect our available hours were reduced by more than 25%.
>They lost a lot of good people who just couldn't eat that much of a pay
>cut. We never did have paid vacation or holidays. Now we get 20 hours
>PTO every 6 months (it used to be 30). >They also took away a company-funded
>legacy pension plan

After 12-20 years we had 60 days sick time per year and 5 weeks
vacation - and the company made contributions to our IRAs. At my
retirement I was guaranteed 10% interest for 10 years on IRA
rollovers. People retiring 2 years earlier got 17%. Anything less than
that is now called "progressive" by liberals.

[xyzzy]

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 9:22:31 AM UTC-4, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:

> After 12-20 years we had 60 days sick time per year and 5 weeks
> vacation - and the company made contributions to our IRAs. At my
> retirement I was guaranteed 10% interest for 10 years on IRA
> rollovers. People retiring 2 years earlier got 17%. Anything less than
> that is now called "progressive" by liberals.

My employer eliminated the idea of a specific number of sick days. The official policy is "you're professional, use what you need". As a result, sick days taken went down simply because people didn't reach the end of the year with some number of unused sick days and feel like they should or need to take them.

[JGibson]

On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 11:01:15 AM UTC-4, michael anderson wrote:
> On Sunday, July 16, 2017 at 8:01:19 AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> > On 2017-07-16, plai...@gmail.com <plai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > She told CNN she suffers from chronic anxiety, depression and post-
> > > traumatic stress disorder. And every now and then, she needs to take
> > > some time to focus on her well-being.
> > >
> > > "I had experienced several nights of insomnia and was poorly rested
> > > and also having lots of suicidal thoughts, which make it difficult
> > > to accomplish much at work," she said.
> > >
> > > Seems like a valid reason to take a few days off. I wouldn't be too
> > > bothered if they had her use vacation time instead of leave. It
> > > would depend on what kind of employee she was and what her sick
> > > leave record was. I know I'd have a hard time dealing with it if I
> > > said no and she went home and hanged herself.
> > >
> > > I'd expect a psychiatric doctor to have some empathy, but it's you,
> > > so I'm not surprised.
> >
> > One of the problems with empathy in this area is that so many
> > people have used this cynically when they had no need. It is also
> > true that many people work through hard times and times of no sleep,
> > and have little sympathy with people "tapping out" in a similar situation.
>
> Absolutely. If you're anxious or tired or down, you still get your ass to work.
>

You know how it's been shown that drowsy driving is actually worse than drunk driving? And you don't want people to come into work drunk? Yeah, you don't want them there fatigued/drowsy either.

[JGibson]

How do you know she wasn't?

[JGibson]

We seem to be headed down the road of canning sick days and just making sick + vacation days = a new total (which seems to be 5 days + your previous vacation days).

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

I've worked at some tech companies while not being self-employed, and this
has been the policy at those three places since 1989.

--
It is not true that people stop pursuing dreams
because they grow old, they grow old because they
stop pursuing dreams. -- Gabriel Garcia Marquez

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 06:35:50 -0700 (PDT), JGibson
<james.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

>You know how it's been shown that drowsy driving is actually worse than drunk driving?

Something I have not thought about like that is rare. But that is
something I had not thought about.

If the end is death I'd call it a tie.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 06:31:01 -0700 (PDT), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 9:22:31 AM UTC-4, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>
>> After 12-20 years we had 60 days sick time per year and 5 weeks
>> vacation - and the company made contributions to our IRAs. At my
>> retirement I was guaranteed 10% interest for 10 years on IRA
>> rollovers. People retiring 2 years earlier got 17%. Anything less than
>> that is now called "progressive" by liberals.
>

>My employer eliminated the idea of a specific number of sick days. The off=
>icial policy is "you're professional, use what you need". As a result, sic=
>k days taken went down simply because people didn't reach the end of the ye=
>ar with some number of unused sick days and feel like they should or need t=
>o take them.

I think that would be great in an environment where all are
"professionals". I left 60 days on the books for 33 of my 35 years. I
was glad I didn't have to use the sick days - I didn't lose anything
because I enjoyed working.

I would expect the policy to be abused in different environments where
loyalty and overall responsibility are not factors.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 06:38:50 -0700 (PDT), JGibson
<james.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 9:31:04 AM UTC-4, xyzzy wrote:
>> On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 9:22:31 AM UTC-4, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
>>
>> > After 12-20 years we had 60 days sick time per year and 5 weeks
>> > vacation - and the company made contributions to our IRAs. At my
>> > retirement I was guaranteed 10% interest for 10 years on IRA
>> > rollovers. People retiring 2 years earlier got 17%. Anything less than
>> > that is now called "progressive" by liberals.
>>

>> My employer eliminated the idea of a specific number of sick days. The o=
>fficial policy is "you're professional, use what you need". As a result, s=
>ick days taken went down simply because people didn't reach the end of the =
>year with some number of unused sick days and feel like they should or need=
> to take them.
>
>We seem to be headed down the road of canning sick days and just making sic=
>k + vacation days =3D a new total (which seems to be 5 days + your previous=
> vacation days).

That's a form of socialism I like - take my sick days, I don't need
them.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

Gamification of sick & vacation days.

It works to the employers advantage to offer discretionary time off.

Plus they don't have to buy them when you leave.

[JGibson]

This last point is the big one at my wife's employer. When you are a lead professional, you have sick days and vacation days. When you get promoted to senior, you just get take the time you need. That makes for no buying them and no 5-week paid vacations right before your retirement.

[Ken Olson]

When I retired I gave about 100 hours of sick leave back, as there's no
payoff. I got paid for about 300 hours of annual leave.

[RoddyMcCorley]

More "in my day" bullshit from the old bullshitter.

--
False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul
with evil.

Pennsylvania - Tá sé difriúil anseo.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

I am aware that you failures don't enjoy hearing about the time when
things worked pretty well. But I won't apologize for rididuling you.
That WOULD be bullshit.

Hugh

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:28:40 -0700 (PDT), JGibson
<james.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 5:24:25 PM UTC-4, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Gamification of sick & vacation days.
>>
>> It works to the employers advantage to offer discretionary time off.
>>
>> Plus they don't have to buy them when you leave.
>

>This last point is the big one at my wife's employer. When you are a lead =
>professional, you have sick days and vacation days. When you get promoted =
>to senior, you just get take the time you need. That makes for no buying t=

>hem and no 5-week paid vacations right before your retirement.

Don't hand in your retirement letter until you have taken the 5 weeks
vacation.

When I retired I left 1,980 sick days on the books (@ 60 per year I
did not use). The company did not buy them. So what.

I took my 5 week vacation before I retired. I could not fish or play
golf for a month or so and I was available if needed. In fact I went
to the office several times.