One of you wingers

[Some dued]

Need to log into Twitter and tell this freeloader that life ain't fair.

This mom's viral tweets about her son's medical bills show what's at stake if the ACA is repealed
https://mic.com/articles/180850/this-moms-viral-tweets-about-her-sons-medical-bills-show-whats-at-stake-if-the-aca-is-repealed

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

life isn't fair.

we all know it.

the best part of Ocare is how we all be immortal

[Some dued]

Don't tell me, go on and post to her Twitter feed.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:18:21 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> Don't tell me, go on and post to her Twitter feed.

Why? What's the point? To be a dick in the midst of personal anguish?

Is this the same reason you don't go on the thread of families who have had a loved one die at the hands of a VA waiting list and proclaim it was for their benefit?

[michael anderson]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:05:27 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> Need to log into Twitter and tell this freeloader that life ain't fair.

ok...me: "life isn't fair"

>
> This mom's viral tweets about her son's medical bills show what's at stake if the ACA is repealed

So what happened to patient's like the one in this story before Obamacare? They all just died? Oh wait...they didn't. Or insured pt's and their families maybe had to spend more than 500 dollars to receive hundreds of thousands of dollars of care? Like I do now??

[Some dued]

Doesn't it seem like a dick move for the wealthiest country ever (more or less) to let children die in order to reduce taxes on the wealthy?

I understand that you can imagine this argument being used even if the tax rate were %99, but that's not really the case and much weaker economies than ours supply this care.

[GrtArtiste]

If not for modern medicine, I would've died 9 yrs ago. 75% of the folks
I personally know over 60 would be dead. I have 2 rellies under 25 who
would also be dead. You want a solution to the healthcare mess? All we
have to do is turn modern medicine off. Let's go back to medicine as it
was in 1900. As long as you don't mind the death rate, all other
problems would soon be gone.

Let's bring back tobacco advertising!
Let's make opioids available OTC!
Legalize Marijuana!
Not only will Social Security become solvent...it won't be needed any
more! National Debt? What National Debt???

See how easy that was? You're welcome.

GrtArtiste

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> Doesn't it seem like a dick move for the wealthiest country ever (more or less) to let children die in order to reduce taxes on the wealthy?

Do you advocate ANY sort of cap for patient care? There's literally no end to this line of reasoning - until you run out of money.

> I understand that you can imagine this argument being used even if the tax rate were %99, but that's not really the case and much weaker economies than ours supply this care.

And they also ration care. Frankly, this child might well have been denied care in many countries - or certainly limited.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

That's certainly a solution - free healthcare for all - but super restrict coverage - no cat scans, no vaccines, no xrays.....

Unlimited free modern medical care for all is simply not possible - despite the emotional arguments.

[Some dued]

I don't necessarily disagree, but then my children are healthy (so far).

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

Before we grant how many people are going to die if Obamacare
is repealed, we need to count how many people it has saved.

Death rates have actually risen for many demographics under the reign
of Obamacare. Overdose deaths are way up. Where have lives been saved
to offset this?

--
The tenor's voice is spoilt by affectation,
And for the bass, the beast can only bellow;
In fact, he had no singing education,
An ignorant, noteless, timeless, tuneless fellow. -- Lord Byron

[Eric Ramon]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:28:48 PM UTC-7, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> > Doesn't it seem like a dick move for the wealthiest country ever (more or less) to let children die in order to reduce taxes on the wealthy?
>
> Do you advocate ANY sort of cap for patient care? There's literally no end to this line of reasoning - until you run out of money.
>

assuming anything he says is true, mia is an example of one of the three biggest problems. His talk of his income (and he's a fairly small fry in the system) shows that medical people simply make too much money. I don't go for this extortion of overcharging because they can. In this particular case, if you look at the itemized costs, they got charged $20,000+ for a couple of weeks "room and board". Why did the hospital charge that much? Because they could.

And this gets paid, at least for now in this instance, by insurance money. That's one of the other big problems. Again, it's "what are you going to do about it?" Insurance companies are partners with the doctors to squeeze as much money as possible out of people. And oh yeah, there's the deductible, not that I'm telling anyone anything they don't already know.

Then there's malpractice insurance and payouts. It all comes down to greed. I know many of you feel very protective of your right to be greedy. It's not a good look, though.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:37:17 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> I don't necessarily disagree, but then my children are healthy (so far).

Like a lot of things - it's easier when it's impersonal rather than directly affecting us - like job loss due to tech or whatever

We "know" we're all "better off" in the long run - but when it impacts us *directly*.....

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

I have zero disagreement with any of this - which is why I'm so much in favor of getting the gov OUT of h/c as much as possible.

Removing price caps where can, open the door for competition and turn loose the Silicon Valley folks on this.

Look at Lasik - the price has done nothing but go down and quality of service go up. No Medicaid/Care involved, little to no insurance involvement.

Coincidence? I think not....

[Some dued]

Lasik is something with a big demand. A lot of these insane costs are due to being for rare problems. Without insurance to pay exorbitant costs a lot of these procedures would probably never be developed solving the problem by saying "there's no known cure" instead of "there's a 10 million dollar cure".

[agavi...@gmail.com]

Wouldnt it be more charitable for you to start a charitable "healthcare" practice and give away everything to people that need it?

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 3:21:43 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> Lasik is something with a big demand. A lot of these insane costs are due to being for rare problems. Without insurance to pay exorbitant costs a lot of these procedures would probably never be developed solving the problem by saying "there's no known cure" instead of "there's a 10 million dollar cure".

Which is certainly a dilemma - do we all pay up for a very rare cure - or not?

That's a Deep Question I don't have the answer to

[wolfie]

"The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" wrote

> Look at Lasik - the price has done nothing but go down and
> quality of service go up. No Medicaid/Care involved, little to
> no insurance involvement.

> Coincidence? I think not....

It's entirely optional. Don't have the money? Fine, wear
glasses or squint. As such, they have to price where people
can afford it to make sales, just like anyone else.

That doesn't work when you either pay for it or die.

I'm all for free markets. Healthcare isn't one and can't be.

[Some dued]

I wonder if penicillin were just developed in today's medical climate what a shot would cost, I am not saying it would necessarily be astronomical but am curious.

[YosemiteSam]

$20k for a couple of weeks? Like hell.

St Francis Hospital + 9 days for nothing but 3 hots and a cot = $59,000.

That 59k didNot include any treatment or care. It was to help pay for the indoor waterfall made of polished marble as was the entire massive front lobby. Just like all the main corridors.

It had the look of a 5 star hotel when you walk through the main lobby doors.

How do you pay a doctor who was in the top 10% of his/her class vs those in the bottom 25% of the class?

A few decades from now when health can be controlled health care will be under control.

~YS~

[agavi...@gmail.com]

My quality of life is focused on cars, boats, and beach houses.

Why aren't they free?

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 4:41:09 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> I wonder if penicillin were just developed in today's medical climate what a shot would cost, I am not saying it would necessarily be astronomical but am curious.

Darn good question

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 4:32:55 PM UTC-5, wolfie wrote:
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" wrote
>
> > Look at Lasik - the price has done nothing but go down and
> > quality of service go up. No Medicaid/Care involved, little to
> > no insurance involvement.
>
> > Coincidence? I think not....
>
> It's entirely optional. Don't have the money? Fine, wear
> glasses or squint. As such, they have to price where people
> can afford it to make sales, just like anyone else.
>
> That doesn't work when you either pay for it or die.

Most of health care is "pay or die" - we both know this.

> I'm all for free markets. Healthcare isn't one and can't be.

Price controls sure aren't working well.

[michael anderson]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 3:24:45 PM UTC-5, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 3:21:43 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> > Lasik is something with a big demand. A lot of these insane costs are due to being for rare problems. Without insurance to pay exorbitant costs a lot of these procedures would probably never be developed solving the problem by saying "there's no known cure" instead of "there's a 10 million dollar cure".
>
> Which is certainly a dilemma - do we all pay up for a very rare cure - or not?

the problem is there are hundreds upon hundreds of 'rare' diseases....but added up as a whole they arent that rare.

It's not really appropriate to look at each disease state like that.....grouping them into cats like pediatric cancer, congenital heart defects, etc makes more sense. And when you do it like that they arent that rare.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 4:49:15 PM UTC-5, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 4:32:55 PM UTC-5, wolfie wrote:
> > "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" wrote
> >
> > > Look at Lasik - the price has done nothing but go down and
> > > quality of service go up. No Medicaid/Care involved, little to
> > > no insurance involvement.
> >
> > > Coincidence? I think not....
> >
> > It's entirely optional. Don't have the money? Fine, wear
> > glasses or squint. As such, they have to price where people
> > can afford it to make sales, just like anyone else.
> >
> > That doesn't work when you either pay for it or die.
>
> Most of health care is "pay or die" - we both know this.

IsN'T

stupid typos

cue the Freudian slip jokes

[michael anderson]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:41:27 PM UTC-5, Eric Ramon wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:28:48 PM UTC-7, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> > On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:25:35 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> > > Doesn't it seem like a dick move for the wealthiest country ever (more or less) to let children die in order to reduce taxes on the wealthy?
> >
> > Do you advocate ANY sort of cap for patient care? There's literally no end to this line of reasoning - until you run out of money.
> >
>
> assuming anything he says is true, mia is an example of one of the three biggest problems. His talk of his income (and he's a fairly small fry in the system) shows that medical people simply make too much money.

I feel like I'm underpaid sometimes. I work 60 hours of week and others that are as efficient as me, do the volume i do in the settings I do, etc make 40-50% more. Hopefully I can be there in a couple years.

But again, I didn't start making really good money until 8 years after I started medical school. And had 6 figures in loans. So someone who graduates with a bachelors degree and then starts working had an 8 year head start on income(plus the less debt) on top of that. that takes a long time to make up.

>
> And this gets paid, at least for now in this instance, by insurance money. That's one of the other big problems. Again, it's "what are you going to do about it?" Insurance companies are partners with the doctors

huh? Thats news to me. It seems they are always fighting with us to lower our reimbursements or deny days of care. I make more money on medicare per pt(counting all the denied days insurers hit me with) than most insurances. But I'm in a unique specialty for that; probably isn't the case for most. That said we certainly arent 'partners'....

[michael anderson]

in a lot of cases probably less....a lot of those AOA(top 10% types) end up going into academic medicine which pays less in many cases.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

You can bet when you're in a government healthcare facility under a single payer federal program, there won't be any waterfalls in the parts of the hospital you're in.

The administrative wing might be a different story.

[wolfie]

"The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" wrote

"wolfie" wrote:

>> I'm all for free markets. Healthcare isn't one and can't be.
> Price controls sure aren't working well.

What price controls?

Obamacare was a free-market solution - here's some money,
go buy insurance. Only critical rules were "you can't make the rest
of us pay for your healthcare when you don't buy coverage" and
"the coverage you buy has to actually do something."

[wolfie]

"The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" wrote

>> Most of health care is "pay or die" - we both know this.

> IsN'T

Really? Like what, other than stuff you shouldn't
need insurance to cover anyway (common cold, etc.)

[agavi...@gmail.com]

> Obamacare was a free-market solution...


BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

[Damon Hynes, Cyclone Ranger]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:41:27 PM UTC-5, Eric Ramon wrote:

> assuming anything he says is true, mia is an example of one of the three biggest problems. His talk of his income (and he's a fairly small fry in the system) shows that medical people simply make too much money.

NO CARRIER

In a capitalistic society, there is no such thing.

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

All (or the vast majority) of the "Silicon valley" folks are in favor of single payer, Germany / Australia similar systems, cheezy. What do you make of that?

And I'd include all the major players there - including Athena, helmed by one "some bush offspring" jr.

The people *in* the system know where the inefficiencies are and it's nowhere in the vacinity of government over reach. And this is an obvious place where capitalism fails (what's the alternative to the fda again? Right, enough of us die from taint that the backlash affects some companies bottom line).

All I see is a proposal about a hypothetical problem (where do you the draw the line, gonna be rationing) as an excuse to bury our poorest because they don't meet the grade.

And even that might be fine if you weren't also adding poor kids to the list. Show me a system where a kid born in Cass has the same access to opportunity as a kid born in bloomfield. It ain't no holds bar capitalism.

Cheers.

[Michael Press]

In article <65c76de1-d5c6-477c...@googlegroups.com>,

Some dued <theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Need to log into Twitter and tell this freeloader that life ain't fair.
>
> This mom's viral tweets about her son's medical bills show what's at stake if the ACA is repealed
> https://mic.com/articles/180850/this-moms-viral-tweets-about-her-sons-medical-bills-show-whats-at-stake-if-the-aca-is-repealed

ACA will collapse under its own weight. No need to repeal.

--
Michael Press

[plai...@gmail.com]

ACA will collapse, at least in part because:

1) The Republicans want it to collapse and are doing nothing to prevent or delay it
2) All over our health care system, we are paying people like Mia $300,000 per year when they don't deserve half that much.

[jim brown]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 2:05:27 PM UTC-5, Some dued wrote:
> Need to log into Twitter and tell this freeloader that life ain't fair.
>
> This mom's viral tweets about her son's medical bills show what's at stake if the ACA is repealed
> https://mic.com/articles/180850/this-moms-viral-tweets-about-her-sons-medical-bills-show-whats-at-stake-if-the-aca-is-repealed

What about the ever increasing premiums they want me to pay to be enrolled on Ocare (fortunately, I'm grandfathered in my BCBS plan that is $900/mo for me and my three kids, instead of the $3000/mo my buddy pays for him, wife and two kids...yep....$36 LARGE a year for this "free" coverage.

[jim brown]

Good post!

[darkst...@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 12:05:27 PM UTC-7, Some dued wrote:
> Need to log into Twitter and tell this freeloader that life ain't fair.
>
> This mom's viral tweets about her son's medical bills show what's at stake if the ACA is repealed
> https://mic.com/articles/180850/this-moms-viral-tweets-about-her-sons-medical-bills-show-whats-at-stake-if-the-aca-is-repealed

If you really want to go there, you might as well set conditions as to who continues and who doesn't.

At that point, good luck getting to work, because you'll need to shoot everybody in the latter situation before they get to you.

You forget WHY the system works the way it does. It isn't for the "freeloaders" -- it's for you.

When one has nothing left to lose...

Mike

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:05:26 -0700 (PDT), Some dued
<theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Need to log into Twitter and tell this freeloader that life ain't fair.
>
>This mom's viral tweets about her son's medical bills show what's at stake if the ACA is repealed
>https://mic.com/articles/180850/this-moms-viral-tweets-about-her-sons-medical-bills-show-whats-at-stake-if-the-aca-is-repealed

That's the problem with you dumbshit libs. You are so incompetent you
think the government has to take care of everything.

I doubt that any ER in this country would turn him away because he
can't pay. Or maybe libs have changed that for the worse.

Hugh

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:25:33 -0700 (PDT), Some dued
<theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Doesn't it seem like a dick move for the wealthiest country ever (more or less) to let children die in order to reduce taxes on the wealthy?

If children die it's because libs were in control and left an
irreparable mess.

Liberals are assassins of children because they teach people to be
irresponsible and the golden goose will lay eggs for them for all
etermity.

[Some dued]

The ER?

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:41:24 -0700 (PDT), Eric Ramon
<ramon...@gmail.com> wrote:

>assuming anything he says is true, mia is an example of one of the three bi=
>ggest problems. His talk of his income (and he's a fairly small fry in the =

>system) shows that medical people simply make too much money.

So exactly how much is your miserable life worth? I can't place a
value on doctors keeping me alive.

I went to the ER Saturday AM with an acute (I thought it was a ugly)
respiratory infection and was home less than 2 hours later on the way
to being cured. One EKG, two chest xrays, one intravenous antibiotic
and 6 pills later I'm feeling good again. The doctor and staff could
not have been nicer.

Of course I paid - 37 years work and 33 years in the military earns
that ability for anyone who is competent and willing.

> I don't go fo=
>r this extortion of overcharging because they can. In this particular case,=
> if you look at the itemized costs, they got charged $20,000+ for a couple =
>of weeks "room and board". Why did the hospital charge that much? Because t=
>hey could.

They charge that much because freeloaders and medicaid costs have to
be paid for, because they have to donate hundreds of thousands of
dollars to charties and non-profits and because they have to pay taxes
to support other liberal-sponsored freeloaders in the community.
>
>And this gets paid, at least for now in this instance, by insurance money. =

>That's one of the other big problems.

Liberals are the ONLY problem.

[JGibson]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 8:39:35 AM UTC-4, J. Hugh Sullivan wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:05:26 -0700 (PDT), Some dued
> <theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Need to log into Twitter and tell this freeloader that life ain't fair.
> >
> >This mom's viral tweets about her son's medical bills show what's at stake if the ACA is repealed
> >https://mic.com/articles/180850/this-moms-viral-tweets-about-her-sons-medical-bills-show-whats-at-stake-if-the-aca-is-repealed
>
> That's the problem with you dumbshit libs. You are so incompetent you
> think the government has to take care of everything.
>
> I doubt that any ER in this country would turn him away because he
> can't pay.

Yes, but where do you think the money for the ER comes from after they don't pay?

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:55:50 -0700, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net>
wrote:

I essentially agree. But will it drive us into bankruptcy in the
meantime.

Why not just eliminate the penalty for not having insurance and
limiting and gradually reducing the subsidy?

I think the only success will be gained by abolishing the UnACA
gradually (which mostly agrees with you).

[agavi...@gmail.com]

1) the republicans had nothing to do with the ACA

2) now you're deciding what people should be paid? The irony of course is that you've decided healthcare is the most important thing ever, yet there is no value in providing it.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

The money for the ER comes from the same place it always came.

Yet, amazingly, my premiums only skyrocketed AFTER Obamacare.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

If there was an Oscar for sutpidity you would be nominated along with
a few other liberals.

The problem is that incompetents like you think they know how much
competents should be paid.

Put your donkey beside a well and you still would not know your ass
from a hole in the ground.

[Some dued]

Talk about stupid: you suggested someone with a rare ongoing illness go to the ER for $200000 treatments.

[michael anderson]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 10:51:28 PM UTC-5, plai...@gmail.com wrote:
> ACA will collapse, at least in part because:
>
> 1) The Republicans want it to collapse and are doing nothing to prevent or delay it
> 2) All over our health care system, we are paying people like Mia $300,000 per year

damn I hope not :)....If I wanted to only make that much I would take a govt/VA job like my sister and only work 40 hrs per week with no weekends, no call, etc.

the reality is that I *do* work many weekends, some evenings, take phone coverage, etc....I don't have a 40 hr week and I'm available for coverage at a lot of inconvenient times. and in a free market we are allowed to make that decision and be paid for it.

God forbid we should ever go to a less free market system where people like myself aren't allowed to work some weekends, evenings, be available for extra/home coverage, etc....that would be a tragedy because it limits choice, limits flexibility to hospitals, patients, etc....choice is always a good thing. Don't ever forget that.

[plai...@gmail.com]

Who said anything about not working weekends or evenings? Plenty of people work weekends and have days off on weekdays. Same for evenings. People work evenings and have days off. I do both at times. The traditional work week of Monday to Friday days with the weekend off probably happens about 25% of the time for me.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

A) A huge amount of health care isn't "pay or die" - you're sick, you want better stuff or you're going in for routine checkups or have a broken bone or whatever

B) Why does only insurance have to pay? Concierge/cash based med is making constant inroads for a reason

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 5:01:28 PM UTC-5, wolfie wrote:
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" wrote
> "wolfie" wrote:
>
> >> I'm all for free markets. Healthcare isn't one and can't be.
> > Price controls sure aren't working well.
>
> What price controls?

Set payments by Medicare/Medicaid.

> Obamacare was a free-market solution - here's some money,
> go buy insurance. Only critical rules were "you can't make the rest
> of us pay for your healthcare when you don't buy coverage" and
> "the coverage you buy has to actually do something."

Insurance is only one part of the price control equation AND didn't go at all far enough - most people needed/wanted less coverage than they were forced to buy.

Why not offer insurance offering less coverage? Why should single men have to buy ob/gyn coverage? Etc.

There's so much opportunity out there strangled by red tape and regulatory burdens.

Best thing OCare could have done, is treat HI more like auto insurance - you've got to buy - go for it. None of the exchanges, etc

[michael anderson]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 10:29:03 AM UTC-5, plai...@gmail.com wrote:
> Who said anything about not working weekends or evenings?

Someone made a reference to a salary figure that would not be commiserate with working evenings and weekends in my field like I do. My point was that I only make more than that(until I get a better profit sharing/partner model setup) because I *choose* to work extra and more than 40 hrs per week. And be efficient...me working 60 hours per week is probably equivalent to another person working 80 hrs per week in terms of billing codes....so that's really two full time job equivalents. So yeah I take offense when someone claims I make too much. because if I wanted to I could make half as much(with great benefits) and do 1/4 of the work....

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:16:02 PM UTC-5, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:
> All (or the vast majority) of the "Silicon valley" folks are in favor of single payer, Germany / Australia similar systems, cheezy. What do you make of that?

Very little - just b/c they "want" something doesn't mean there's tremendous opportunity for them to take advantage of.

> And I'd include all the major players there - including Athena, helmed by one "some bush offspring" jr.
>
> The people *in* the system know where the inefficiencies are and it's nowhere in the vacinity of government over reach. And this is an obvious place where capitalism fails (what's the alternative to the fda again? Right, enough of us die from taint that the backlash affects some companies bottom line).

Oddly enough, companies still suffer lawsuits WITH FDA approval - and I notice you didn't mention all those suffering unnecessarily either physically or financially b/c the FDA restricts drug approval and keeps meds off the market or priced artificially high.

> All I see is a proposal about a hypothetical problem (where do you the draw the line, gonna be rationing) as an excuse to bury our poorest because they don't meet the grade.

Who exactly do you think will be rationed as it is? The poor.

> And even that might be fine if you weren't also adding poor kids to the list. Show me a system where a kid born in Cass has the same access to opportunity as a kid born in bloomfield. It ain't no holds bar capitalism.

Some me a system of high success where everyone has the exact same outcome - Venezuela does - yay!

[Damon Hynes, Cyclone Ranger]

Two words: Chelsea. Manning.

[michael anderson]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:16:02 PM UTC-5, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:

> All (or the vast majority) of the "Silicon valley" folks are in favor of single payer

even if this were true(and I don't know how you would know this, pretty sure you haven't taken a personal poll of the top 1000 or so people in SV), so what? why should I care what some tech manager or ceo thinks about health care anymore than anyone else?

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 05:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Some dued
<theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The ER?

Certainly.

The few times I have been to an ER (except last Saturday) it was
crowded with people who obviously didn't earn income or they would not
have looked like trash.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

Hospitals charge paying patients usually through their insurance.

But changes in premiums were slow and gradual prior to the Obama
fiasco. My Tricare for Life payments are going up for the first time
in my memory this year.

If libs did not pay people to be worthless the increases would be less
to non-existent.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:09:50 -0700 (PDT), Some dued
<theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Talk about stupid: you suggested someone with a rare ongoing illness go to the ER for $200000 treatments.

Do you think they would turn him away and say "Go, die". There are all
sorts of programs that accept such for R&D purposes. I could have had
a freebie in the 70s but the company insisted on paying. No freebies!

You are one stupid son of a bitch.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 08:28:59 -0700 (PDT), plai...@gmail.com wrote:

>Who said anything about not working weekends or evenings? Plenty of people =
>work weekends and have days off on weekdays. Same for evenings. People work=
> evenings and have days off. I do both at times. The traditional work week =
>of Monday to Friday days with the weekend off probably happens about 25% of=
> the time for me.

So you clerk at McDonald's at odd hours.

[Michael Press]

In article <6d9f57da-a9c7-4c2f...@googlegroups.com>,

plai...@gmail.com wrote:

> ACA will collapse, at least in part because:
>
> 1) The Republicans want it to collapse and are doing nothing to prevent or delay it

Democrats totally own it, and even today will not work to make it workable.
"Want it?" Watch it with your overly broad, everybody you label is bad generalizations.

> 2) All over our health care system, we

What you mean "we", white man?

> are paying people like Mia $300,000 per year when they don't deserve half that much.

Now you get to decide what people are worth; you, the perfect authoritarian.

--
Michael Press

[Some dued]

Cool if I get cancer I'll go to the ER for all my treatments thanks for the tip.

[plai...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 11:46:05 AM UTC-7, Michael Press wrote:
> In article <6d9f57da-a9c7-4c2f...@googlegroups.com>,
> plai...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > ACA will collapse, at least in part because:
> >
> > 1) The Republicans want it to collapse and are doing nothing to prevent or delay it
>
> Democrats totally own it, and even today will not work to make it workable.
> "Want it?" Watch it with your overly broad, everybody you label is bad generalizations.

Republicans have a majority in both houses of Congress and can't even get their own members to pass any health care legislation. I don't think they want to do anything very badly.

>
> > 2) All over our health care system, we
>
> What you mean "we", white man?
>

I'm referring to all US taxpayers regardless of race, Kemosabe. I'd expect that if you polled all Americans, most would agree that they don't want to pay higher taxes so that Mia can earn $300,000 a year. By the way, nice snippage of the rest of that sentence that removes the meaning of my statement.

> > are paying people like Mia $300,000 per year when they don't deserve half that much.
>
> Now you get to decide what people are worth; you, the perfect authoritarian.

In the past, Mia has declared people in my profession are overpaid. If he can say that about me and my co-workers, then I can say that about him.

[Michael Press]

In article <51e7db57-c36d-477b...@googlegroups.com>,
Some dued <theodo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <rubrum-9CC00E....@news.albasani.net>,

> Cool if I get cancer I'll go to the ER for all my treatments thanks for the tip.

Why are you telling me this?

--
Michael Press

[meda...@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 3:28:08 PM UTC-4, GrtArtiste wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 3:05 PM, Some dued wrote:
> > Need to log into Twitter and tell this freeloader that life ain't fair.
> >
> > This mom's viral tweets about her son's medical bills show what's at stake if the ACA is repealed
> > https://mic.com/articles/180850/this-moms-viral-tweets-about-her-sons-medical-bills-show-whats-at-stake-if-the-aca-is-repealed
> >
>

> If not for modern medicine, I would've died 9 yrs ago. 75% of the folks
> I personally know over 60 would be dead. I have 2 rellies under 25 who
> would also be dead. You want a solution to the healthcare mess? All we
> have to do is turn modern medicine off. Let's go back to medicine as it
> was in 1900. As long as you don't mind the death rate, all other
> problems would soon be gone.
>
> Let's bring back tobacco advertising!
> Let's make opioids available OTC!
> Legalize Marijuana!
> Not only will Social Security become solvent...it won't be needed any
> more! National Debt? What National Debt???
>
> See how easy that was? You're welcome.
>
> GrtArtiste

Hmmm, since you're a registered Deadbeat, I wonder who paid for saving your life.

I'll grant you your wish to refrain from reaping the benefits of Modern Healthcare. Can we get a wallet card for people who object to paying a dime because it doesn't meet their political beliefs? As in, "this dumbass had a heart attack and is unconscious - normally we'd treat him and decent people would pay the price, but his beliefs preclude us from accepting him to the ED".

You don't want to be forced to pay for ACA. Fine. You're exempt. Since you're unable to pay for your healthcare otherwise, "you don't get no healthcare". ($1 to Caddyshack).

[agavi...@gmail.com]

If you get cancer, who should pay for your treatments?

Why?

[Some dued]

The ER, cause they will (according to jhs)

[JGibson]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 8:43:10 PM UTC-4, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> If you get cancer, who should pay for your treatments?
>
> Why?

All of us because that's what a civilized society does.

[agavi...@gmail.com]

Says who?

Does a civilized society pay for my dental care?

What about drug rehab? Are you going to pay for that?

Perhaps I want prenatal care for my unborn child?

Good health starts with a diet and exercise. Will you pay for my food, some joggers, and a treadmill?

I'd like to swim laps in a pool.

[dotsla...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 10:38:11 AM UTC-5, The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
> On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 8:16:02 PM UTC-5, dotsla...@gmail.com wrote:
> > All (or the vast majority) of the "Silicon valley" folks are in favor of single payer, Germany / Australia similar systems, cheezy. What do you make of that?
>
> Very little - just b/c they "want" something doesn't mean there's tremendous opportunity for them to take advantage of.
>

It's not a matter of "want" - it's a conclusion driven by insight into both our system and competing systems around the world.

> > And I'd include all the major players there - including Athena, helmed by one "some bush offspring" jr.
> >
> > The people *in* the system know where the inefficiencies are and it's nowhere in the vacinity of government over reach. And this is an obvious place where capitalism fails (what's the alternative to the fda again? Right, enough of us die from taint that the backlash affects some companies bottom line).
>
> Oddly enough, companies still suffer lawsuits WITH FDA approval - and I notice you didn't mention all those suffering unnecessarily either physically or financially b/c the FDA restricts drug approval and keeps meds off the market or priced artificially high.
>

I guess if we can't stop every bank robbery we should just disband our police forces?

And I notice you didn't mention thalidomide.

> > All I see is a proposal about a hypothetical problem (where do you the draw the line, gonna be rationing) as an excuse to bury our poorest because they don't meet the grade.
>
> Who exactly do you think will be rationed as it is? The poor.
>

There isn't a public good / service that isn't finite - including road capacity, fire-fighting capacity, "policing" capacity, and military / defense capacity.

I guess I don't find simply pointing out that something is finite a convincing argument that it shouldn't be a public good.

> > And even that might be fine if you weren't also adding poor kids to the list. Show me a system where a kid born in Cass has the same access to opportunity as a kid born in bloomfield. It ain't no holds bar capitalism.
>
> Some me a system of high success where everyone has the exact same outcome - Venezuela does - yay!

Dude - rich folk in teh 'zuela have way better outcomes.

Australia, Germany, New Zealand, Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, heck, any country you can think of that is (in older parlance) "first world" has a healthcare system that (a) is more successful (cost:benefit) than the US, (b) provides greater access across their populations than pre-ACA US, and (c) would be instantly demonized as "socialism" by american conservatives.

The ACA is a mess, but that's not the condemnation of public healthcare that conservatives pretend because in terms of "public healthcare", it really wasn't. Do single-payer or even a hybrid system like Singapore runs - copy models that actually work.

The core problem here is the same core problem Hillary had - the "progressive" party in America is anything but and refuses to actually institute solid, proven progressive policy. Hard to get folks excited to vote for more of the same and endless compromise.

Cheers.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:12:50 -0700 (PDT), plai...@gmail.com wrote:

>Republicans have a majority in both houses of Congress and can't even get t=
>heir own members to pass any health care legislation. I don't think they wa=

>nt to do anything very badly.

You would never be able to comprehend the difference between Pelosi?
saying "we have to pass it to see what's in it" and the GoP reviewing
problems to see if they can come up with something that works.

It's not easy to cure stupid but the GoP is trying.

[razorn...@gmail.com]

So, what's the answer GrtArtiste? Who paid to save your life? Who would pay to save your life today? Are you registered with ACA or are you just a wild-card bum who shows up with his hand out (again)? Is it okay if we leave you on a bench outside to die or would you like to, you know, participate?

[agavi...@gmail.com]

At least you avoided answering.