PSU: BY ANY OTHER NAME WOULD BE #1
HOWARD NEWSTADT
no doubt that Michigan would be hailed unanimous, concensus,
without-a-doubt, #1.
Can you imagine if ND had PSU's record this year (undefeated, 47+
points/game, five offensive first team All-Americans, two Heisman
contenders (and you can bet one of them would win), a 26+ point scoring
differential):
MOVE OVER MT. RUSHMORE! WHAT FABLED NAME WOULD WE GIVE THIS BACKFIELD!
PROBABLY THE GREATEST OFFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL! THE MNC
IS TOO SHODDY A TITLE TO BESTOW UPON *THIS* ND TEAM !! (afterall, that
would be insinuating an equivalence between THEM and the other (non-ND)
teams who have won this title in the past.)
Should Penn State win the Rose Bowl and fail to win the MNC this year
(Go, Canes) (and I'm not trying to dis the ducks, but really), it will be
the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional prejudice.
If Alabama had Penn State's record, this discussion would never be taking
place, and y'all know it.
Jeff Miller
If Notre Dame had Kansas State's record, they would also be #1.
What's your point?
Here's my point: If PSU had Nebraska's record, then they should be #1.
Fact is, they don't so they aren't.
Assume both PSU and NU win their bowl games. The case becomes even clearer:
MNC to Nebraska.
Nebraska has played more and better teams. They have proven it on the
field. If PSU doesn't like it, too bad.
One other thing to consider: do you think PSU could beat Miami at the
Orange Bowl? You have not played a team all year with a defense any where
near as good as Miami's, and PSU's defense would be lucky to hold Miami
under 40 points. My prediction : Miami - 42, PSU - 17.
Jeff Miller
jxm...@borg.mnet.uswest.com
"Performing random acts of
moral ambiguity."
Jeff Rogers
>points/game, five offensive first team All-Americans, two Heisman
>contenders (and you can bet one of them would win),
BTW, splitting Heisman votes isn't a good idea. Those writers who want to
vote for a PSU guy will split, and someone else will win...
EMAIL ADDRESS: jeff....@turner.com
"Gotta get me some alligator shoes..."
*and* N-A-V-Y. goooo NAVY! FIGHT!
HOWARD NEWSTADT
(Jeff Rogers) wrote:
> >Can you imagine if ND had PSU's record this year...( two Heisman
> >contenders (and you can bet one of them would win),
>
> BTW, splitting Heisman votes isn't a good idea. Those writers who want to
> vote for a PSU guy will split, and someone else will win...
I meant that one of them would win had they been on Notre Dame (ND). In
which case ND would have had the runner-up, too.
hn
sonny hays-eberts
<HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.Y...@hnewstadt.med.yale.edu>,
HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.YALE.EDU (HOWARD NEWSTADT) wrote:
> Should Penn State win the Rose Bowl and fail to win the MNC this year
> (Go, Canes) (and I'm not trying to dis the ducks, but really), it will be
> the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional prejudice.
nebraska lost a starting qb and is *still* undefeated. could penn state
have done the same? would they have come back against illinois with whoever
sits behind collins?
oregon has beat three top-15 teams this year, two ranked in the top 10 when
oregon played them. who has penn state played with similar rankings? what
other undefeated teams have given up as many points as penn state,
especially in the last month?
--
so your life sucks?
well, 99% of life is what you make it
so, if your life sucks
you must suck
-- suicidal tendencies
sonny hays-eberts
ebe...@oregon.uoregon.edu
Kurt Ludwick
: One other thing to consider: do you think PSU could beat Miami at the
: Orange Bowl? You have not played a team all year with a defense any where
: near as good as Miami's, and PSU's defense would be lucky to hold Miami
: under 40 points. My prediction : Miami - 42, PSU - 17.
This is just silly. Penn State has played Illinois, with a defense as good
as Miami's, and scored 35 points. Penn State ripped up the (formerly) 5th
rated pass defense in the country. I don't know where Miami's defense
ranks statistically, but after these 2 games I don't really care. PSU
would score at least 35. And if *Pittsburgh*, THIS YEAR, can hold Miami
to 17 lousy points (in ANY weather conditions, including a nuclear bombard-
ment), then they don't scare me. Costa is awful. PSU 42, Miami 17. Isn't
the absence of a playoff just wonderful? :)
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Kurt Ludwick
: > Should Penn State win the Rose Bowl and fail to win the MNC this year
: > (Go, Canes) (and I'm not trying to dis the ducks, but really), it will be
: > the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional prejudice.
: nebraska lost a starting qb and is *still* undefeated. could penn state
: have done the same? would they have come back against illinois with whoever
: sits behind collins?
(Not that this is especially important, but...)
Probably not, but maybe. We would, however, be undefeated without our
starting fullback, our starting halfback (that's right), and probably
our starting tight end. Now, all THREE out at ONCE would be bad, but
any one of the above wouldn't have been a huge loss, because PSU has
backups very nearly as good as the starters (or -as- good, with the FB)
in every position.
: oregon has beat three top-15 teams this year, two ranked in the top 10 when
: oregon played them. who has penn state played with similar rankings? what
: other undefeated teams have given up as many points as penn state,
: especially in the last month?
These are odd standards; did you make them up all by yourself? Did you
sit down with a stat sheet, straining for hours on end to find two or three
things that Penn State -hasn't- done perfectly, and decide to make those the
official standards for great teams? It sure looks that way.
Don't even try to compare the Mighty Ducks' schedule to Penn State. It's
absurd.
Kurt Ludwick
------------
HOWARD NEWSTADT
If Michigan and PSU were to exchange records for this past season, there is
no doubt that Michigan would be hailed unanimous, concensus,
without-a-doubt, #1.
Can you imagine if ND had PSU's record this year (undefeated, 47+
points/game, five offensive first team All-Americans, two Heisman
contenders (and you can bet one of them would win), a 26+ point scoring
differential):
MOVE OVER MT. RUSHMORE! WHAT FABLED NAME WOULD WE GIVE THIS BACKFIELD!
PROBABLY THE GREATEST OFFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL! THE MNC
IS TOO SHODDY A TITLE TO BESTOW UPON *THIS* ND TEAM !! (afterall, that
would be insinuating an equivalence between THEM and the other (non-ND)
teams who have won this title in the past.)
Should Penn State win the Rose Bowl and fail to win the MNC this year
it will be the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional
prejudice.
If Nebraska, Alabama, FSU, UF, or MIAMI had were in Penn State's shoes
(black Nike's), they would be concensus #1 and this discussion would never
be taking place, and y'all know it.
HN PSU 85g
Rob Polinsky
(Jeff Miller) says:
>One other thing to consider: do you think PSU could beat Miami at the
>Orange Bowl? You have not played a team all year with a defense any where
>near as good as Miami's, and PSU's defense would be lucky to hold Miami
>under 40 points. My prediction : Miami - 42, PSU - 17.
Three years ago, Penn State lost at Miami, 26-20 -- and Penn State was
*nowhere* near Miami's league at that time. Miami shou'dve won by 21. So
what do you think PSU would do now? Probably win 38-20, like Washington did.
However, we're talking regular season here. Miami is a different team -- at
the Orange Bowl -- when Jan. 1 is concerned. They dominate there. When was
the last time they lost the Orange Bowl when they were in it?
Nebraska's got their hands full -- I give them a 50/50 chance of winning, which
is pretty good, considering it's at Miami.
<<<<<Rob>>>>> ------> Rutgers 58 ----- Moderator, Women's basketball
Nittany Lions -----> LADY LIONS 100 ----- mailing list & Creator of
Football -- 1994 ---> Rank: #10 (1-0)----- RT30: "The Charts!"
BIG TEN CHAMPIONS! -> Men's B-Ball (1-0) - (rap...@psuvm.psu.edu)
John Leinaweaver
>In article
><HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.Y...@hnewstadt.med.yale.edu>,
>HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.YALE.EDU (HOWARD NEWSTADT) wrote:
>
>
>> Should Penn State win the Rose Bowl and fail to win the MNC this year
>> (Go, Canes) (and I'm not trying to dis the ducks, but really), it will be
>> the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional prejudice.
>
>nebraska lost a starting qb and is *still* undefeated. could penn state
>have done the same? would they have come back against illinois with whoever
>sits behind collins?
Penn State has seen 7 different defensive starters injured, at times,
as many as 5 out of a game at a time. Could Nebraska keep
Wyoming from scoring 30+ points using their reserves? How about
going 5-6 games not knowing who would be healthy by game time thus
not having a chance to build any consistency.
Perhaps Berringer is a better quarterback than Frasier.
>oregon has beat three top-15 teams this year, two ranked in the top 10 when
>oregon played them. who has penn state played with similar rankings? what
>other undefeated teams have given up as many points as penn state,
>especially in the last month?
And when a few of PSU's starters return for the bowl game, how
many points will Oregon score? Care to go out on a limb?
>sonny hays-eberts
>ebe...@oregon.uoregon.edu
--
John Leinaweaver | A.,.A
le...@bae.bellcore.com | (u u )\-=-__---===-.
_ __ __ _ __ | `.^,,' , ( \`-.
' ) ) ( ) ' ) / | /~/~~~~~ /...;/~~~~~ (`\`.
/--' \ / / | """"~~~~~~~~~~""~~~~~~~,','
/ (__) (__/ | Lions Roar in '94 `"
John Leinaweaver
>One other thing to consider: do you think PSU could beat Miami at the
>Orange Bowl? You have not played a team all year with a defense any where
>near as good as Miami's, and PSU's defense would be lucky to hold Miami
>under 40 points. My prediction : Miami - 42, PSU - 17.
>
For three quarters, scoring only 12 points against the 105th ranked rushing
defense (matched against Nebraska's #1 rushing offense), then scoring
only 13 against an oklahoma team that has given up 40+ points at least
twice this year, do you think Nebraska will even score against
Miami?
> Jeff Miller
Wade Dolphin
: If Michigan and PSU were to exchange records for this past season, there is
: no doubt that Michigan would be hailed unanimous, concensus,
: without-a-doubt, #1.
Pre-season expectations have always played a big role in determining final
rankings. Why do you think FSU won the MNC last year after ND beat them and
had the same record?
: Can you imagine if ND had PSU's record this year (undefeated, 47+
: points/game, five offensive first team All-Americans, two Heisman
: contenders (and you can bet one of them would win), a 26+ point scoring
: differential):
: MOVE OVER MT. RUSHMORE! WHAT FABLED NAME WOULD WE GIVE THIS BACKFIELD!
: PROBABLY THE GREATEST OFFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL! THE MNC
: IS TOO SHODDY A TITLE TO BESTOW UPON *THIS* ND TEAM !! (afterall, that
: would be insinuating an equivalence between THEM and the other (non-ND)
: teams who have won this title in the past.)
No response to this. Seems like what you describe is how I'd like to see
it.
: Should Penn State win the Rose Bowl and fail to win the MNC this year
: (Go, Canes) (and I'm not trying to dis the ducks, but really), it will be
: the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional prejudice.
: If Alabama had Penn State's record, this discussion would never be taking
: place, and y'all know it.
There are a whole lot of votes around the PSU area and they don't seem to
mind voting locally. I always consider Syracuse overrated any time
they are rated. Alabama has Penn State's record and is ranked behind PSU.
Is this regional prejudice? Flat out, I think NU's defense beats PSU's
offense in a head to head matchup. No way can PSU's questionable defense
could withstand NU's physical offense either.
PATRICK J LARKIN
>HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.YALE.EDU (HOWARD NEWSTADT) writes:
>
>>If Michigan and PSU were to exchange records for this past season, there is
>>no doubt that Michigan would be hailed unanimous, concensus,
>>without-a-doubt, #1.
>
>>points/game, five offensive first team All-Americans, two Heisman
>>contenders (and you can bet one of them would win), a 26+ point scoring
>>differential):
>
>>MOVE OVER MT. RUSHMORE! WHAT FABLED NAME WOULD WE GIVE THIS BACKFIELD!
>>PROBABLY THE GREATEST OFFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL! THE MNC
>>IS TOO SHODDY A TITLE TO BESTOW UPON *THIS* ND TEAM !! (afterall, that
>>would be insinuating an equivalence between THEM and the other (non-ND)
>>teams who have won this title in the past.)
>
>>(Go, Canes) (and I'm not trying to dis the ducks, but really), it will be
>>the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional prejudice.
>>If Alabama had Penn State's record, this discussion would never be taking
>>place, and y'all know it.
>
>
>What's your point?
>
>Here's my point: If PSU had Nebraska's record, then they should be #1.
>Fact is, they don't so they aren't.
What???
>
>Assume both PSU and NU win their bowl games. The case becomes even clearer:
>MNC to Nebraska.
>
>Nebraska has played more and better teams. They have proven it on the
>field. If PSU doesn't like it, too bad.
You can honestly say with a straight face and without your fingers crossed
that in 1994 the Big 8 is a stronger division than the Big 10!!!! C'mon.
>One other thing to consider: do you think PSU could beat Miami at the
>Orange Bowl? You have not played a team all year with a defense any where
>near as good as Miami's, and PSU's defense would be lucky to hold Miami
>under 40 points. My prediction : Miami - 42, PSU - 17.
Penn State spanked Illinois, the then #3 or so defense in the country. A
defense that far outreached the Pacific like teams the Corncanners played.
PSU would have a better chance against Miami (ahhh '86) than NU's power
offense that was on display in that bitter IOWA STATE battle. I won't predict
a score. Just remember when Nebraska LOSES pitifully in the Orange that PSU
has two championsips, one won against a Miami team.
Institutional and regional bias is right.
>
> Jeff Miller
> jxm...@borg.mnet.uswest.com
> "Performing random acts of
> moral ambiguity."
>
Patrick J. Larkin Penn State '90
User Consultant Penn State 1994 Big 10 Champs
Lehigh University @-->-->--1995 Rose Bowl
---------------------------------------------------------------
WWW--> http://www.lehigh.edu/pjl2/public/www-data/pjl2.html
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Brock Hannibal
>
>
>Don't even try to compare the Mighty Ducks' schedule to Penn State. It's
>absurd.
>
Michigan State? Did they win 3 games? I'll grant that the Nittany Lions
have "statistically" the best offense in the nation but the Ducks have
a top 10 defense that will HURT Penn State, while I enjoy! Ducks by 3, a
tough game something like 24-21. The Eastern Slobovian fans and sports writers/
announcers will choke as Oregon guarantees a MNC for Big Red.
Brock
Dan Stamey
: If Michigan and PSU were to exchange records for this past season, there is
: HN PSU 85g
Man, is there a high pitched sound in here, like maybe a whining sound?!
Please, if there's any kind of bias, it's from the eastern pollsters. NU
has never had the luxury of support due to regional and institutional
prejudice. Face the facts, people don't vote PSU #1 because their defense
downright SUCKS!! They give up points like it's Christmas every game!
Justice is being served. PSU chose not to join the bowl coalition and they
get to play Oregon while NU gets to play for the National Championship
in the Orange Bowl. God, the whining from some of you PSU fans is ridiculous.
I think you have actually, in such a short time, taken the title for biggest
whiners in college football.
--
=============================================================================
\ / /
\\\' , / //
\\\//, _/ //,
\_-//' / //<, -------------- Daniel C. Stamey
\ /// <//` | \ Evolving Systems, Inc.
/ >> \\\`__/_ ---- *| Software Engineer
/,)-^>> _\` \\\ |____________\ d...@evolving.com
(/ \\ //\\
// _//\\\\ GO CORNHUSKERS!!!!!
((` ((
=============================================================================
Mark Klemkosky~
> oregon has beat three top-15 teams this year, two ranked in the top 10 when
> oregon played them. who has penn state played with similar rankings? what
> other undefeated teams have given up as many points as penn state,
> especially in the last month?
Great! This is the kind of comparison I've been waiting for. Therefore,
by your reasoning, Oregon is the better team (This is the same reasoning
that Hukser fans are using). I really doubt that Oregon has much of a
chance on 2 Jan. We'll have to wait and see...
--
All opinions presented are my own and do not
necessarily reflect the views of my company.
Jeff Miller
>jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com (Jeff Miller) writes:
>>Assume both PSU and NU win their bowl games. The case becomes even clearer:
>>MNC to Nebraska.
>>
>>Nebraska has played more and better teams. They have proven it on the
>>field. If PSU doesn't like it, too bad.
>You can honestly say with a straight face and without your fingers crossed
>that in 1994 the Big 8 is a stronger division than the Big 10!!!! C'mon.
Lets assume, for the sake of this intellectually rich discussion, that:
Nebraska beats Miami (50/50)
Penn State beats the Ducks (60/40)
Colorado beats Notre Dame (100/0)
Kansas State beats Boston College (I'm not sure that is the
correct opponent for KSU.)
In this case, then Nebraska will have beaten three (3) END OF SEASON
top-ten teams. Penn State will have defeated zero (0) END OF SEASON
top-ten teams. Case closed.
Stephen Walker
(stuff deleted)
>In this case, then Nebraska will have beaten three (3) END OF SEASON
>top-ten teams. Penn State will have defeated zero (0) END OF SEASON
>top-ten teams. Case closed.
1. How is the MNC decided? A bunch of sportswriters and coaches vote on
it, right?
2. How do their opponents become "top-ten" teams? A bunch of sportswriters
and coaches vote on it, right?
3. So how can you use #2 to try and justify #1? They're the same damned
thing!!
A part of me wants Penn State, Nebraska, and Alabama to all remain undefeated.
Maybe then we can get a playoff system.
john apostol
: If Michigan and PSU were to exchange records for this past season, there is
: HN PSU 85g
85g ? This might jog some memories:
+--+
| |
+--+----------------------+ +-+--+
| | | |
| | | |
|P | 82 MNC Field |P |
|S | |S |
|U | |U |
| | | |
| | | |
+--+---------------------------+--+
4th and inches, inside the 5, 4 seconds left ! Boy, that extra
chunck of field sure came in handy!
Brendan Perry
jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com (Jeff Miller) wrote:
>
> Lets assume, for the sake of this intellectually rich discussion, that:
>
> Nebraska beats Miami (50/50)
> Penn State beats the Ducks (60/40)
> Colorado beats Notre Dame (100/0)
> Kansas State beats Boston College (I'm not sure that is the
> correct opponent for KSU.)
>
> In this case, then Nebraska will have beaten three (3) END OF SEASON
> top-ten teams. Penn State will have defeated zero (0) END OF SEASON
> top-ten teams. Case closed.
Intellectually rich? Bullshit. Nebraska may have beaten all those
teams but they would not have beaten PSU. And none of your arguments
is worth JACK SHIT until you can scream at the top of your lungs
in some mythical bowl game: "Time has EXPIRED, Nebraska DEFEATS
Penn State!". The best you can do is sit around smug on January 3rd,
_maybe_ having defeated Miami, thinking that regardless of how PSU
does, with their #1 offense completely intact and their defense
healthy, the POLLS won't take away Doctor Tom's god-given NC.
And you STILL won't convince me that NU is a better team. You may
not convince me they are WORSE either, but you won't convince me
they are BETTER, until they've played each other.
For my money, the amount of trash talking and woofing coming
from Husker fans (and Colorado and Oklahoma flamebaiters and bomb
throwers) is about equal to PSU fans. It HAS to be, because for
EVERY Penn State woof or whine, there is a whiny CU or NU response,
and vice versa (including MY response here ;) ). Do you REALLY think
it shows respect and class to start threads like "PSU=crybabies"?
I don't see any "Huskers=self-righteously smug nitwits" threads
(well, at least not with that _title_). :)
I will catagorically declare Nebraska my own personal National Champion
if they beat Miami, if with Penn State's defense being healthy again
they have a poor performance or loss to Oregon. Now, if Penn State holds
Oregon to 3 points and scores their usual 48, and NU beats Miami by 1,
17-16, are Huskers fans going to stand there and say that they deserve
to be sole National Champions? I'd be willing to bet on the answer to
that question, insofar as Usenet NU fans are concerned (except maybe
Husker Henderson). I think the only way there would be controversy
would be if BOTH teams trash their opponents.
Actually, I suspect the REAL answer will be: "you don't have to worry
about any of your hypothetical scenarios because NU is going to crush
Miami and you sucky Lions are gonna lose to Oregon". I can hardly wait.
--
cheers,
Brendan Perry
Brendan Perry
apo...@mksol.dseg.ti.com (john apostol) wrote:
> : HN PSU 85g
>
> 85g ? This might jog some memories:
>
> +--+
> | |
> +--+----------------------+ +-+--+
> | | | |
> | | | |
> |P | 82 MNC Field |P |
> |S | |S |
> |U | |U |
> | | | |
> | | | |
> +--+---------------------------+--+
>
> 4th and inches, inside the 5, 4 seconds left ! Boy, that extra
> chunck of field sure came in handy!
Gee, y'all are RIGHT. I see the light now. HUSKERS NEVER WHINE, only
LIONS whine. Nope, HUSKERS don't whine for TWELVE YEARS. No, wait,
Husker whining is LEGITIMATE DISCUSSION. PSU whining is, well, whining.
I can hardly wait to hear y'all whine about how PSU 'backed into' the
NC this year (totally undeservably, of course), if they beat Oregon
and Miami repeats the '84, '89 and '92 Orange Bowls (not to mention
the '79, '82, '93, and '94 Orange Bowls).
BTW, I was AT that game and I don't think it was exactly as desparate
as you picture it. However, we still WON.
--
cheers,
Brendan Perry
Jeff Miller
>jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com (Jeff Miller) wrote:
>>
>> Lets assume, for the sake of this intellectually rich discussion, that:
>>
>> Nebraska beats Miami (50/50)
>> Penn State beats the Ducks (60/40)
>> Colorado beats Notre Dame (100/0)
>> Kansas State beats Boston College (I'm not sure that is the
>> correct opponent for KSU.)
>>
>> In this case, then Nebraska will have beaten three (3) END OF SEASON
>> top-ten teams. Penn State will have defeated zero (0) END OF SEASON
>> top-ten teams. Case closed.
>Nebraska may have beaten all those teams but they would not have beaten
>PSU.
And PSU will not have beaten Nebraska. So all we can look at is the quality
of each teams' opponents. Based on the above analysis, clearly Nebraska
will have the more prestigious schedule.
>And you STILL won't convince me that NU is a better team.
I don't care whether you are convinced. It is enough for me that the
poll voters are.
>For my money, the amount of trash talking and woofing coming
>from Husker fans (and Colorado and Oklahoma flamebaiters and bomb
>throwers) is about equal to PSU fans.
I find a lot of trash talk in your posts, but not in mine. I suppose
resorting to foul language and gratuitous attacks is your way of saying
that Nebraska is the superior team.
>I will catagorically declare Nebraska my own personal National Champion
>if they beat Miami, if with Penn State's defense being healthy again
>they have a poor performance or loss to Oregon.
I will be sure to alert the media. I know that the nation is waiting with
the highest anticipation to hear your opinion.
Jeff Miller
>In article <3bfqq6$m...@borg.it.uswc.uswest.com> jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com (Jeff Miller) writes:
>(stuff deleted)
>>In this case, then Nebraska will have beaten three (3) END OF SEASON
>>top-ten teams. Penn State will have defeated zero (0) END OF SEASON
>>top-ten teams. Case closed.
>1. How is the MNC decided? A bunch of sportswriters and coaches vote on
> it, right?
>2. How do their opponents become "top-ten" teams? A bunch of sportswriters
> and coaches vote on it, right?
>3. So how can you use #2 to try and justify #1? They're the same damned
> thing!!
No doubt, there is circular logic at work here. That's ok, however, because
if you slice a football down the middle, it has a circular cross section.
This demonstrates why we use circular logic.
Brock Hannibal
>
>And when a few of PSU's starters return for the bowl game, how
>many points will Oregon score? Care to go out on a limb?
>
Oregon, maybe even 31 to 28, Oregon. No way will Penn state score more
than 4 times.
Brock
Oregon Alum
Kurt Ludwick
: In article <3bdkdl$6...@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> ludwick@euclid (Kurt Ludwick) writes:
: >Don't even try to compare the Mighty Ducks' schedule to Penn State. It's
: >absurd.
: The Ducks' schedule is easily just as tough as anybody's except ND. I mean
Absolutely wrong. Michigan and Notre Dame had much tougher schedules. Actually,
anyone in the Big Ten had a tougher schedule than almost anyone in the Pac Ten.
(Compare out-of-conference records; you guys come out way behind.)
: Michigan State? Did they win 3 games? I'll grant that the Nittany Lions
Five games, and barely lost a few more. Had the 5th ranked pass defense in
the nation before Saturday. But don't let facts bother you.
: have "statistically" the best offense in the nation but the Ducks have
: a top 10 defense that will HURT Penn State, while I enjoy! Ducks by 3, a
Sorry. Illinois and MSU had better defenses, and PSU shredded them. (Yes,
after the first quarter they cut right through Illinois for the most part.)
Woof all you like, but JoePa is the best bowl game coach ever; PSU will be
better prepared, with one of the greatest offenses ever for a college team.
It will not be pretty.
: tough game something like 24-21. The Eastern Slobovian fans and sports writers/
: announcers will choke as Oregon guarantees a MNC for Big Red.
OK, you wrote PSU's first half and second half scores. You left Oregon's out
from embarassment, or are you predicting they just won't score at all?
Come to think of it...: PSU 52, Oregon 23. Blowout. Duck Soup.
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Kurt Ludwick
: >jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com (Jeff Miller) writes:
: >You can honestly say with a straight face and without your fingers crossed
: >that in 1994 the Big 8 is a stronger division than the Big 10!!!! C'mon.
This is true; the Big Ten is a tougher conference, top to bottom. No absolute
pushovers like Okla. St. or Iowa State.
: Lets assume, for the sake of this intellectually rich discussion, that:
: Nebraska beats Miami (50/50)
: Penn State beats the Ducks (60/40)
: Colorado beats Notre Dame (100/0)
These odds are absolutely wrong. These are closer:
Miami over Nebraska: 70/30 (c'mon, IN the Orange Bowl, with Osborne's record...)
PSU over Ducks 90/10 (be realistic; no way the Ducks win)
Colo over Notre Dame 90/10 (hey, they've surprised people before)
: In this case, then Nebraska will have beaten three (3) END OF SEASON
: top-ten teams. Penn State will have defeated zero (0) END OF SEASON
: top-ten teams. Case closed.
However, Nebraska will have looked absolutely awful against one or two bottom 50 teams,
while PSU looked terrible for one quarter against one (Temple, 1st quarter, that's it).
Nebraska's horribly inconsistent, and will get smashed by Miami, 17-6.
Kurt Ludwick
------------
P.S. Florida over 'Bama something like 28-20. I'll be glad to stop hearing about them.
Kurt Ludwick
Yep, that's what Illinois said, and their defense is far better than
yours. You poor, deluded Duck fan. I'll try not to gloat too much
after the massacre.
("No way will Penn State score more than 4 times," har. Maybe in the
first HALF.)
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Christopher L Fay
30 points is totally out of their skull. Not even Illinois' hot-death defense
( < 100 yards allowed passing per game) could slow down the PSU juggernaut for
more than a quarter. Collins finished with 300 yards and 7-for-7 on the final
drive. Carter rushed for over 100, over the damn total average allowed for a
whole TEAM by Illini standards. To suggest that ANYONE could hold PSU to less
than 30 is ludicrous. Only 3 or 4 have held PSU under _40_.
Penn State's defense may not be that hot, but it's damn good for being half
second-string (which seems to be the running Nebraska argument for their
offense...QB who?)...Here's another interesting point:
PSU offense least points scored in a game: 31 (vs. Michigan)
PSU defense most points allowed in a game: 31 (vs. Illinois)
Uhhh, seems to me the worst PSU could have possibly done this year is a TIE.
I don't think Nebraska OR Alabama could say that their offense on their worst
day could score more than their defense allowed on its worst day.
Nebraska offense least points scored in a game: 13
Nebraska defense most points allowed in a game: 30.
Ouch.
I haven't seen any stats with regard to Alabama on this matter. I guess
before they played Auburn none of their games were even worth mentioning...
Ah, there WAS that Mississippi State game:
Alabama offense points scored vs. an Auburn: 21
Alabama defense points allowed vs. MSU.....: 25
Looks like we have another loser.
NO TEAM has been able to shut down PSU's offense for longer than one quarter.
Illinois did in the 1st, and scored 21. Other three quarters: PSU 35-10.
Michigan did in the 3rd, (we scored only 7), scored 14. Other 3: PSU 24-10.
Penn State has NEVER had NEGATIVE total yards for ANY quarter. Nebraska: -3
2nd vs. OU. LAST WEEK.
Back to performance versus crushing defense: Penn State has allowed only 5
sacks ALL SEASON. 3 were allowed by the 2nd string line against the 2nd string
QB. Nebraska also has low numbers, but one must consider that their 2nd string
is their starter. This includes PSU's shutdown of the naton's LEADING sack
machine in Simeon Rice, who had 16 going into the PSU game. The man defending
him was not flagged for any holding, either. It was all clean blocking on
possibly the nation's BEST DLineman.
Penn State averages 7.4 yards PER PLAY. that includes sacks,
incompletions, and short TD runs, as well as the gamebreakers. the O-line is
opening holes for 6.6 yards per run. Nebraska: 6.4 per run. Penn State's line
is better at run blocking and at pass blocking than any other line in the
nation. We don't even need sissy-turf so our players can run faster.
And to everyone who gives Michigan no credit:
This team lost on a piece of flying bullshit to a Colorado team who was BEAT
for the rest of the game. That's a big mental break for a team to handle.
MNC hopes? Gone. That L is all that matters. They came into the PSU game
pumped to beat us and go to the Rose bowl, and lost... another crushing blow,
and realizing we would need two losses, their Rose shot was gone. Probably
their two main goals of the season. Not only that, the team started bickering
and lost a stupid game to Wisconsin. By the end of the year, it was obvious
that a divided Michigan team would lose to a pumped OSU team in Columbus.
Michigan was a victim of that bullshit Hail-mary more than anything else.
They may have very well beaten PSU without that loss, and with that would be in
our seat right now. They are a good team with no direction or unity, so they
lost a few big games.
NORTHWESTERN would be a top-half team in the Big 8.
ANY Big Ten team would be a contender in the Big 8.
Nebraska would LOSE to Illinois. That D of theirs is mean as shit and would
beat the hell outta NU's O-Line, and backup-boy would have another collapsed
lung from Simeon kickin his butt on every other play.
Most importantly, NU would lose its composure if it was faced with a REAL game
from a REAL opponent. They've been in control, and there are defenses out
there that wouldn't allow for that. Miami won't. They'll throw the book at
NU, and NU will panic.
Penn State, on the other hand, would just keep going about its business of
scoring at will. There was no hurry to score the winning TD at Illinois.
97 yards, 6 minutes... Illinois should be grateful we only scored once.
Take a look at the Iowa game. In less than the first 16 minutes, the score
was 45-0. At that rate, the final would have been 158-0. What was it? Who
is ROTS?
FIVE first team all-americans on Offense. Who you gonna stop? You'd need a
22-man defense to really even slow PSU down.
Even then they'd probably kick your ass.
Chris Fay
clf...@psuvm.psu.edu
Go State Beat Ducks!
KEB
Blah, blah, blah, blather, blah, blather, burp, blah, blah...
: This team lost on a piece of flying bullshit to a Colorado team who was BEAT
I wouldn't have really believed that bullshit could fly until I read your
diatribe on the BYU of 1994.
continuing:
Blah, blah, blah, blather, blarneystone, burp, blah, barf, blather, bluster...
Robert J. Dietrich
john apostol <apo...@mksol.dseg.ti.com> wrote:
> +--+
> | |
>+--+----------------------+ +-+--+
>| | | |
>| | | |
>|P | 82 MNC Field |P |
>|S | |S |
>|U | |U |
>| | | |
>| | | |
>+--+---------------------------+--+
Geeez, after all these years and you're still whining. I remember thinking
it was out when I watched the game, but then living in Pa at the time, I got
to view the play from 42 different angles on the local, nightly news. It
got pretty boring. You probably didn't get to see it in that part of the
country cause it showed the ball on his chest with one foot inbounds. I
expect if he was out of bounds, you would have been bored by all the
coverage.
Anyway, there's plenty to debate this year without worrying about something
that can't change.
Bob D.
Brendan Perry
jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com (Jeff Miller) wrote:
> lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brendan Perry) writes:
>
> >jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com (Jeff Miller) wrote:
> >>
> >> Lets assume, for the sake of this intellectually rich discussion, that:
> >>
> >> Nebraska beats Miami (50/50)
> >> Penn State beats the Ducks (60/40)
> >> Colorado beats Notre Dame (100/0)
> >> Kansas State beats Boston College (I'm not sure that is the
> >> correct opponent for KSU.)
> >>
> >> In this case, then Nebraska will have beaten three (3) END OF SEASON
> >> top-ten teams. Penn State will have defeated zero (0) END OF SEASON
> >> top-ten teams. Case closed.
>
> >Nebraska may have beaten all those teams but they would not have beaten
> >PSU.
>
> And PSU will not have beaten Nebraska. So all we can look at is the quality
> of each teams' opponents. Based on the above analysis, clearly Nebraska
> will have the more prestigious schedule.
>
That was exactly my point, that NEITHER TEAM HAD BEATEN THE OTHER.
Yet you continue on your merry way, speculating that NU would beat
PSU based on what...
Prestigious schedule. Please show me the computer rating stats on
both teams schedule and prove to me that they are wildly different.
Show several computer ratings, not just one, and prove that NU has
a much, much tougher schedule than PSU and with that tougher schedule
they trashed every opponent by a wide margin and show without a doubt
that they are that much better than PSU.
Incidentally, I will not demonstrate the converse, because I don't
believe the converse myself, that PSU has a much tougher schedule
or is necessarily better than NU.
> >And you STILL won't convince me that NU is a better team.
>
> I don't care whether you are convinced. It is enough for me that the
> poll voters are.
>
Well, that sure is easy for you to say, since NU is currently ranked
#1. PSU lost their #1 ranking based on their defensive performance in
the IU and UI games. Come NYD, their defense will be at full strength.
Do you suppose that if PSU completely shuts down Oregon they will
magically reappear as #1? I doubt it. I also don't care that you
believe polls that are inherently biased because they support your
position. I imagine if our roles were reversed, you would say the
same thing, as you may have done last year when there was controversy
between NU and FSU.
> >For my money, the amount of trash talking and woofing coming
> >from Husker fans (and Colorado and Oklahoma flamebaiters and bomb
> >throwers) is about equal to PSU fans.
>
> I find a lot of trash talk in your posts, but not in mine. I suppose
> resorting to foul language and gratuitous attacks is your way of saying
> that Nebraska is the superior team.
>
Please show me where I used foul language. I find the above sentence
interesting because you must have me confused with someone else. I've
never once in this group trash talked NU, nor have I said that PSU
would crush PSU, as some of your fellow Huskers fans have. I am merely
taking the position that until the two teams meet and one actually
defeats the other, they are pretty much equal. I've seen both teams
play, I've seen both teams struggle, I've seen both teams dominate.
I believe that both teams, at full strength and playing at their best
are pretty much equal.
>
> >I will catagorically declare Nebraska my own personal National Champion
> >if they beat Miami, if with Penn State's defense being healthy again
> >they have a poor performance or loss to Oregon.
>
> I will be sure to alert the media. I know that the nation is waiting with
> the highest anticipation to hear your opinion.
>
Nice gratuitious attack, pal. I think what I meant to say was that
based on the performance of each team in their bowl game I will judge
for myself which team I think is better, rather than follow the
'reasoning' of coaches who don't even watch the games and sportswriters
who know even less than I do about football. But hey just because a lot
of people in r.s.f.c think this same way doesn't mean it should stop
you from hypocritically insulting me after saying *I* insult people.
--
cheers,
Brendan Perry
HOWARD NEWSTADT
lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brendan Perry) wrote:
> > 85g ? This might jog some memories:
> >
> > +--+
> > | |
> > +--+----------------------+ +-+--+
> > | | | |
> > | | | _|
> > |P | 82 MNC Field |P|_ <<< You forgot the Alabama game!
> > |S | |S |
> > |U | |U |
> > | | | |
> > | | | |
> > +--+---------------------------+--+
> >
> > 4th and inches, inside the 5, 4 seconds left ! Boy, that extra
> > chunck of field sure came in handy!
The Boston Garden had its dead spots on the parkey, Beaver Stadium has its
favorite nooks and cranies that only the lions know about.
HN PSU MBA 85
stephen reichenbach
rjd>In article <1994Nov29....@mksol.dseg.ti.com>,
rjd>john apostol <apo...@mksol.dseg.ti.com> wrote:
rjd>> +--+
rjd>> | |
rjd>>+--+----------------------+ +-+--+
rjd>>| | | |
rjd>>| | | |
rjd>>|P | 82 MNC Field |P |
rjd>>|S | |S |
rjd>>|U | |U |
rjd>>| | | |
rjd>>| | | |
rjd>>+--+---------------------------+--+
rjd
rjd>Geeez, after all these years and you're still whining. I remember thinking
rjd>it was out when I watched the game, but then living in Pa at the time, I got
rjd>to view the play from 42 different angles on the local, nightly news. It
rjd>got pretty boring. You probably didn't get to see it in that part of the
rjd>country cause it showed the ball on his chest with one foot inbounds. I
rjd>expect if he was out of bounds, you would have been bored by all the
rjd>coverage.
For those too young to have seen it, I state unequivocally that this is
bull shit. I saw the game and many replays. It was the absolute worst
call, the most clearly wrong call that I have ever seen. It left the
unmistakable impression on me that no one could make such a gigantic error
as the ref made mistake without at least unintentional bias (even if just
caused by the crowd). It is the worst call I have ever seen.
HOWARD NEWSTADT
Stamey) wrote:
>
> Man, is there a high pitched sound in here, like maybe a whining sound?!
> Please, if there's any kind of bias, it's from the eastern pollsters. NU
> has never had the luxury of support due to regional and institutional
> prejudice. Face the facts, people don't vote PSU #1 because their defense
> downright SUCKS!! They give up points like it's Christmas every game!
> Justice is being served. PSU chose not to join the bowl coalition and they
> get to play Oregon while NU gets to play for the National Championship
> in the Orange Bowl. God, the whining from some of you PSU fans is ridiculous.
> I think you have actually, in such a short time, taken the title for biggest
> whiners in college football.
I just have to respond to this garbage.
1) Penn State's defense doesn't suck. In fact it's rather good, maybe
better than that. The statistics this year are not a good measure of the
defense BECAUSE THEY ARE SPENDING 40+ MINUTES A GAME ON THE FIELD.
Normally, this would be a sign that the offense sucks. But this year is
unprecedented in that the Penn State Offense is scoring 48 points a game in
about 20 minutes of possession. That's one touchdown every 2:45 minutes.
The defense gets no rest.Yet they played spectacularly when it counted, in
the second half against Michigan and Illinois, and they totally shut Ohio
State down until they PSU their subs in. Contrary to popular newsgroup
belief, the Indiana game was a blowout in the 4Q 35-14, until IU scored 15
points in the last 3 minutes, 8 on the last play.
2) Penn State has scored 35 points against the 6th ranked scoring defense
(Illinois) and 63 points against the 9th ranked scoring defense (Ohio
State). Penn State has generated a 27 point average spread this season.
Nebraska on the other hand has scored 13 points against the 33rd ranked
scoring defense (Oklahoma), 17 points against the 5th ranked (KSU), and 24
points against the 26th ranked scoring defense (CU). Nebraska has
generated a 24 point average spread.
3) While Nebraska has been poor mouthing there QB injury situation, even
though Berringer is your best QB, PSU has lost five DBs, 1 LB, and 1 DL.
4) The Penn State 1st string defense has only given up 148 points (12 TDs
being scored against the subs in the 4Q during blowouts!!) This is only 1
point a game more than Nebraska is giving up.
5) Nebraska is now going to have to play a real team. Miami is #1 rated
Total Defense (220.9) and Scoring Defense (10.8). Miami is also scoring
32 points a game. Nebraska has never faced a defense this good, and
Colorado is the only offense Nebraska has faced with comparable ability.
In the Orange Bowl (the stadium) you won't have a prayer.
January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count. Penn State #1 consensus.
Regards, Howard
Kurt Ludwick
: In article <3bd8r1$f...@borg.it.uswc.uswest.com> jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com (Jeff Miller) writes:
: >One other thing to consider: do you think PSU could beat Miami at the
: >Orange Bowl? You have not played a team all year with a defense any where
: >near as good as Miami's, and PSU's defense would be lucky to hold Miami
: >under 40 points. My prediction : Miami - 42, PSU - 17.
: For three quarters, scoring only 12 points against the 105th ranked rushing
: defense (matched against Nebraska's #1 rushing offense), then scoring
: only 13 against an oklahoma team that has given up 40+ points at least
: twice this year, do you think Nebraska will even score against
: Miami?
They'll score; they'll be all psyched up, since they probably actually
believe they're one of the best teams in the country. They'll get a
rude awakening. Miami will win by about 14 points.
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Kurt Ludwick
: >MNC to Nebraska.
: >Nebraska has played more and better teams. They have proven it on the
: >field. If PSU doesn't like it, too bad.
I'm still waiting to be told who Nebraksa's played this year besides
Colorado and Kansas State, who is any good at all. (No, not Oklahoma;
their big name doesn't salvage their season any more than Norte Dame's.)
: You can honestly say with a straight face and without your fingers crossed
: that in 1994 the Big 8 is a stronger division than the Big 10!!!! C'mon.
Here's how you compare: look at the "cellar dwellers," the bottom half of
each conference. This gives you an idea of how tough the conference really
is; EVERY decent conference has at least 2 or 3 good teams. Delete them,
and consider the rest of the teams, OUT OF the conference, to see their
relative toughness.
Big 10, minus PSU, Michigan and Ohio State: 15-8-1.
Big 8, minus Oklahoma, Colorado and KSU: 9-11-1.
Compare and contrast.
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Kurt Ludwick
: Christopher L Fay (CLF...@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
: Blah, blah, blah, blather, blah, blather, burp, blah, blah...
Translation: I'm deleting a lot of damn good points I can't respond
too, since Chris is right and I am wrong. But I'll at least put up
a good front, so I can get my one little pathetic attempt at humor in.
: : This team lost on a piece of flying bullshit to a Colorado team who was BEAT
: I wouldn't have really believed that bullshit could fly until I read your
: diatribe on the BYU of 1994.
Yuk, yuk.
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Kurt Ludwick
: If Michigan and PSU were to exchange records for this past season, there is
: no doubt that Michigan would be hailed unanimous, concensus,
: without-a-doubt, #1.
Sure. Michigan has a similar Big Ten schedule (toughest conference
in NCAA), AND a tougher out-of-conference schedule. AND, they have
to play Penn State; PSU has the advantage of not having to play
themselves. :-) So, you're right, an undefeated Michigan WOULD
be an obvious #1.
: Should Penn State win the Rose Bowl and fail to win the MNC this year
: (Go, Canes) (and I'm not trying to dis the ducks, but really), it will be
: the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional prejudice.
True; AP does stand for Anti-Pennstate, you know.
: If Alabama had Penn State's record, this discussion would never be taking
: place, and y'all know it.
What? You were doing great, but they DO have the same record. What
do you mean?
Kurt Ludwick
------------
john apostol
if NU and PSU both win their bowl games and NU
is given the consensus MNC, it will be sweet
justice for PSU's controversial 82 MNC
JCA
+++
+-----------+ +--------+ +++
| Nebraska \ | Penn State |
+--+ | | |
+---------+ +------------+
Mark Klemkosky~
In article <3bfouh$k...@tekadm1.cse.tek.com>, bro...@salope.pen.tek.com (Brock Hannibal) writes:
> In article <3bdkdl$6...@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> ludwick@euclid (Kurt Ludwick) writes:
> >
> >
> >Don't even try to compare the Mighty Ducks' schedule to Penn State. It's
> >absurd.
> >
> The Ducks' schedule is easily just as tough as anybody's except ND. I mean
> a top 10 defense that will HURT Penn State, while I enjoy! Ducks by 3, a
> announcers will choke as Oregon guarantees a MNC for Big Red.
>
>
Expect Penn State to score at least 35 points in the first half. Then JoePa
will throw in the bench warmers (not that any of the bench warmers didn't get
a fair amount play time this year already).
Paul A. Lane
>: >You can honestly say with a straight face and without your fingers crossed
>: >that in 1994 the Big 8 is a stronger division than the Big 10!!!! C'mon.
>This is true; the Big Ten is a tougher conference, top to bottom. No absolute
>pushovers like Okla. St. or Iowa State.
Oh yeah. That perennial powerhouse Northwestern. And Iowa, Minnesota,
and Purdue ain't exactly frightening. The Big 8 is simply more polar-
ized this year with three top rank schools, two decent ones, and
three terrible ones. The Big 10 has 1 top rank school, around half
a dozen good teams, and bad news at the bottom.
>: In this case, then Nebraska will have beaten three (3) END OF SEASON
>: top-ten teams. Penn State will have defeated zero (0) END OF SEASON
>: top-ten teams. Case closed.
>However, Nebraska will have looked absolutely awful against one or two
bottom 50 teams, while PSU looked terrible for one quarter against one
(Temple, 1st quarter, that's it). Nebraska's horribly inconsistent, and
will get smashed by Miami, 17-6.
Pure sophistry. You decide how a team should be ranked by how well
it does against the weakest competition? NU is #1 for two reasons:
(1) Performed much better than expected in the OB last year.
(2) Dominated Colorado.
Regardless of how you slice it, Penn State has yet to play a game
against an impressive team. They had an impressive win against OSU,
but threw away that by weak performances (DEFENSIVELY) against IU
and IU.
I'd love to see a Penn State vs. Nebraska matchup in the Orange
Bowl for the title. However, it was you folks who ducked that
match.
Paul
--
Paul A. Lane
pal...@iastate.edu
Kurt Ludwick
: Expect Penn State to score at least 35 points in the first half. Then JoePa
: will throw in the bench warmers (not that any of the bench warmers didn't get
: a fair amount play time this year already).
You're probably right, and it will be the right thing for JoePa to do.
(He might wait until the 4th quarter though.) But in a way that's too
bad, because a good old-fashioned blowout may be what it takes for
PSU to get #1, and Joe just doesn't like to do that... oh well.
Kurt Ludwick
Kurt Ludwick
: In <3bgl7a$h...@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> ludwick@euclid (Kurt Ludwick) writes:
: >This is true; the Big Ten is a tougher conference, top to bottom. No absolute
: >pushovers like Okla. St. or Iowa State.
: Oh yeah. That perennial powerhouse Northwestern. And Iowa, Minnesota,
: and Purdue ain't exactly frightening. The Big 8 is simply more polar-
Purdue wasn't bad this year; I think they beat at least one of the
better teams, like Michigan. Iowa, NWU and Minn aren't great, I
grant that, but my point is that they're no were NEAR as bad as
Oklahoma State, Iowa State, or (probably) Missouri.
: ized this year with three top rank schools, two decent ones, and
: three terrible ones. The Big 10 has 1 top rank school, around half
: a dozen good teams, and bad news at the bottom.
Again, check the out of conference records of these teams; nearly
every Big 10 team was .500 or better outside of the conference.
And not entirely against bad teams, either (like Iowa State).
: >However, Nebraska will have looked absolutely awful against one or two
: bottom 50 teams, while PSU looked terrible for one quarter against one
: (Temple, 1st quarter, that's it). Nebraska's horribly inconsistent, and
: will get smashed by Miami, 17-6.
: Pure sophistry. You decide how a team should be ranked by how well
: it does against the weakest competition? NU is #1 for two reasons:
You're the one bringing up "top 10" teams as a measuring stick, so
why shouldn't we use the terrible teams as well? I don't understand.
I still say that the only decent teams NU has played this year are
Colorado and Kansas State; Oklahoma was OK, but not really good this
year. And it -does- matter NU looked awful against awful teams
like Iowa State.
: Regardless of how you slice it, Penn State has yet to play a game
: against an impressive team. They had an impressive win against OSU,
Ohio State, Michigan, USC are all impressive (and RANKED) teams. OSU
and Michigan are both *as good as* Colorado; Michigan rightfully beat
Colorado.
: but threw away that by weak performances (DEFENSIVELY) against IU
: and IU.
Sorry, you can't count Indiana. The scrub defense played most of the
second half, and allowed two fluke touchdowns (both similar to Colorado's
"flying bullshit" that beat Michigan). The only games where PSU's
defense really didn't do well were Michigan State, and the first half
of the Illinois game. Most of the other scoring by other teams was
against scrubs.
: I'd love to see a Penn State vs. Nebraska matchup in the Orange
: Bowl for the title. However, it was you folks who ducked that
: match.
Stupid statement. I'm tired of everyone who only looks at PSU's decision
to join the Big Ten from a football perspective; there was a *lot* more to
it than that. They didn't join out of fear of the Big 8, that's for
damn sure. Too bad you midwesterners won't get the chance to see how
wrong you all are about PSU this year; it's a damn tragedy.
Kurt Ludwick
TROY CHRISTENSEN
: In article <3bfqq6$m...@borg.it.uswc.uswest.com>,
(snip, snip)
: Nebraska may have beaten all those
: teams but they would not have beaten PSU.
(snip, snip)
: but you won't convince me
: they are BETTER, until they've played each other.
Anyone else see a contridiction here? You won't be convinced one team
is better than the other until they play, but you seem certain NU
wouldn't have beaten PSU? Which is it?
: I don't see any "Huskers=self-righteously smug nitwits" threads
can you say "pot.kettle.black"???
Troy Christensen
tchr...@herbie.unl.edu
--
<=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=>
<= Troy Christensen | "Honesty is the best policy, but insanity =>
<= tchr...@herbie.unl.edu | is a better defense" -Steve Landesberg =>
<=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=><=>
Robert J. Dietrich
sonny hays-eberts <ebe...@oregon.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>
>nebraska lost a starting qb and is *still* undefeated. could penn state
>have done the same? would they have come back against illinois with whoever
>sits behind collins?
>
BIG DEAL!! PSU has lost 2 starting linemen on defense, but it looks like
they'll be back for the Rose Bowl. PSU is down to it's 5th and 6th string
defensive backs. NU would have lost it's last 2 games if they had lost as
many players on defense.
Bob D.
Mark Hurley
>
[bunch of stuff that I cut, then]
> I'd love to see a Penn State vs. Nebraska matchup in the Orange
> Bowl for the title. However, it was you folks who ducked that
Are you kidding? Everyone would want to see that game, in any bowl.
By "you folks" I assume you mean "Penn St.", but both teams are
contractually obligated to their respective bowls. Blame Rose and
Orange officials, the NCAA, lawyers, TV, sunspots, blah, blah, blah.
I am sure we've heard it all before...
Mark Hurley
"I am not a Penn St. fan, but I have watched them on TV."
Brendan Perry
CHRISTENSEN) wrote:
> Brendan Perry (lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov) wrote:
> : In article <3bfqq6$m...@borg.it.uswc.uswest.com>,
>
> (snip, snip)
>
> : Nebraska may have beaten all those
> : teams but they would not have beaten PSU.
>
> (snip, snip)
>
> : but you won't convince me
> : they are BETTER, until they've played each other.
>
> Anyone else see a contridiction here? You won't be convinced one team
> is better than the other until they play, but you seem certain NU
> wouldn't have beaten PSU? Which is it?
>
I meant 'of all the teams they beat, PSU wouldn't have been one of
them so I won't believe they are better until that happens'. You
obvious thought I meant 'NU may have beaten all those other teams,
but they wouldn't have beaten PSU if they played.'. That isn't what
I meant, but you were too busy getting all pissed off over what
you'd decided was an NU flame that you couldn't take the time to
read it carefully. The second sentence CLARIFIES the first, not
CONTRADICTS. But hell, why pick up on that when you can needlessly
flame me.
> : I don't see any "Huskers=self-righteously smug nitwits" threads
>
> can you say "pot.kettle.black"???
Dude, you are either incredibly stupid or are flamebaiting. The whole
POINT to my post was this:
1. I am not convinced that one team is better than the other if
they are both remain undefeated. Until they play each other, if
both are undefeated, the statistical posturing means nothing to
me. Miami had PSU beat in almost every major catagory in 1986 and
look what happened.
2. If you hadn't chopped that whole paragraph I wrote, you would see
that it basically said "pot.kettle.black", so your saying that
about me is idiotic. I was saying that people from Nebraska were
making posts with threads like "PSU=Crybabies". I found that a
little classless, but I just remarked there were no "Huskers=
self-righteous nitwits" posts.
I guess you can't tell sarcasm when you see it, and you also have
trouble reading a whole posts before you flame it with righteous
indignation.
--
cheers,
Brendan Perry
Dan Stamey
: In article <1994Nov29.1...@evolving.com>, d...@evolving.com (Dan
: Stamey) wrote:
: Regards, Howard
Alright, more whining. Oh, our defense has soooooo many injuries, so that's
why we gave up so many points to a bunch of nobodies. God, give a break
would you? PSU fans.....Whiners of the Year!! Hands down!! When you can
go undefeated without your best QB, maybe your whining might make some sense,
but please, face it. Your defense is swiss cheese baby! Oregon is gonna
have fun eating up your swiss cheese defense. BTW, I didn't realize that
Colorado and K-State weren't real teams. I'd be willing to bet that both
would beat your Lions! Chad May would eat your swiss cheese defense up and
the Heisman trophy winner, Rashan Salaam, that's right, not Carter, not
Collins, Salaam, would run for 300 yards against your swiss cheese defense.
So, believe me, NU has played some real teams (and a couple of Top 10 teams)
while you have played a bunch of nobodies. Boy, such a bad year for the PSU
boys.....they can;t win the Heisman and they won't win the MNC. Why? Their
swiss cheese defense!!!!!
--
=============================================================================
\ / /
\\\' , / //
\\\//, _/ //,
\_-//' / //<, -------------- Daniel C. Stamey
\ /// <//` | \ Evolving Systems, Inc.
/ >> \\\`__/_ ---- *| Software Engineer
/,)-^>> _\` \\\ |____________\ d...@evolving.com
(/ \\ //\\
// _//\\\\ GO CORNHUSKERS!!!!!
((` ((
=============================================================================
Tony Defina
>For those too young to have seen it, I state unequivocally that this is
>bull shit. I saw the game and many replays. It was the absolute worst
>call, the most clearly wrong call that I have ever seen. It left the
>unmistakable impression on me that no one could make such a gigantic error
>as the ref made mistake without at least unintentional bias (even if just
>caused by the crowd). It is the worst call I have ever seen.
Wrong Wrong Wrong. There was one and only one replay that clearly
showed the play. It was from a local TV station's camera that was on
the sidelines and it showed "the ball on his chest with one foot
inbounds." I did not understand why the replay wasn't picked up by
national coverage but it was shown repeatedly on local TV. Guess it
wasn't a story if the pass was called correctly.
Karl Kehm
>If Michigan and PSU were to exchange records for this past season, there is
>no doubt that Michigan would be hailed unanimous, concensus,
>without-a-doubt, #1.
>Can you imagine if ND had PSU's record this year (undefeated, 47+
>points/game, five offensive first team All-Americans, two Heisman
>contenders (and you can bet one of them would win), a 26+ point scoring
>differential):
>MOVE OVER MT. RUSHMORE! WHAT FABLED NAME WOULD WE GIVE THIS BACKFIELD!
>PROBABLY THE GREATEST OFFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL! THE MNC
>IS TOO SHODDY A TITLE TO BESTOW UPON *THIS* ND TEAM !! (afterall, that
>would be insinuating an equivalence between THEM and the other (non-ND)
>teams who have won this title in the past.)
>Should Penn State win the Rose Bowl and fail to win the MNC this year
>(Go, Canes) (and I'm not trying to dis the ducks, but really), it will be
>the result of the grossest sort of regional and institutional prejudice.
>If Alabama had Penn State's record, this discussion would never be taking
>place, and y'all know it.
Yeah, Notre Dame prejudice sucks and I think everybody on this newsgroup
pretty much agrees with that--even the Notre Dame fans, whereever they are.
The point is, however, mute. There is no Michigan or Notre Dame in this
race. Only Alabama, Penn St. and Nebraska. If you were to exchange the
records and schedules of any of these three you would find that the one
with Nebraska's record would edge out at number one. And, that is the
only fact that's relevant here.
The decisive factor. Look at four teams linked together by common games:
Michigan, Penn St., Colorado, and Nebraska. Each of these teams played
their best, most inspired football against one of these opponents. Looking
at these games gives a glimpse of each team at their best, allowing us to
forget all the bickering over the Indiana/PSU and the Iowa St./NU games where
these two teams were obviously uninspired and played far below their potentials.
Michigan played Colorado pretty evenly. Colorado barely won in points,
slightly more convincingly in statistics. Penn St./Michigan was also
pretty evenly matched. One might argue that, based on these performances,
CU might likely beat Penn St. even at home but that's beside the point.
Nebraska, on the other hand, dominated CU in every way. In light of the
fact that all three of these games featured these teams at their very best
with all the stops out and no restrictions on the playbook (except nebraska
who were running a non-traditional nu offense with their second string
quarterback and, at the same time, trying to prevent him from further
injuring his ribs!), I think it's clear that Nebraska has the upper hand
because of their convincing CU win. Without any better way to assess the
relative strengths of Penn St. and Nebraska, this may be the most objective.
kkehm
GO HUSKERS!
Christopher L Fay
explain why the Vegas oddsmakes had Miami the favorite. Too bad you missed the
clip on College football lines. When the Oddsmakers came up with their final
stats, they picked PSU by 1 1/2. But knowing Miami's fair-weather support,
they gaven Miami a close edge because everyone was stupid enough to think Miami
would destroy PSU. Meanwhile, the bookies raked in the bucks.
The other thing many people did not realize is that by the 2nd half of
gameday, the whole Fiesta Bowl was practically rooting for PSU. Much of the
seating was occupied by Phoenix area businessmen, and Miami, in their fatigues
pulling crap like leaving in the middle of a major dinner, did nothing but
irritate the locals. So they all showed up and rooted for the Nittany Lions,
who arrived in the usual coats and ties, and presented themselves in a positive
manner to the area. Even at the game, people with no real interest became
engrossed in the PSU spirit that was pervading the crowd.
This is the major reason Miami can't win outside of the Orange Bowl...
it's the only place they play where acting like a jerk is considered "cool".
A good time for a quick comment about Nebraska. I have never heard any
stories about NU players pulling any Miami-like stunts. Oz has the program
in good shape. They play hard and represent the University well, in a
classy manner.
Mike Dahmus
>In <3bgl7a$h...@cronkite.ocis.temple.edu> ludwick@euclid (Kurt Ludwick) writes:
>
>>: >You can honestly say with a straight face and without your fingers crossed
>>: >that in 1994 the Big 8 is a stronger division than the Big 10!!!! C'mon.
>
>>This is true; the Big Ten is a tougher conference, top to bottom. No absolute
>>pushovers like Okla. St. or Iowa State.
>
>Oh yeah. That perennial powerhouse Northwestern. And Iowa, Minnesota,
>and Purdue ain't exactly frightening. The Big 8 is simply more polar-
>ized this year with three top rank schools, two decent ones, and
>three terrible ones. The Big 10 has 1 top rank school, around half
>a dozen good teams, and bad news at the bottom.
This isn't true at all, at least according to the computer rankings I posted.
The Big 8 has one great team, so does the Big Ten.
Both have one "very good" team (#6, #8)
The real difference is in the gap between about #10 and about #35. The Big 8
has only one team in that area (Kansas State at #15), while the Big Ten has
three or four (I don't remember where Wisconsin was - I left the paper at
home, and they weren't one of PSU's opponents).
The other big difference is that the Big 8 has a team even worse than
Temple (#93 or so), and three teams that are MUCH worse than Northwestern
(#65 or so)
>Pure sophistry. You decide how a team should be ranked by how well
>it does against the weakest competition? NU is #1 for two reasons:
>
>(1) Performed much better than expected in the OB last year.
>
>(2) Dominated Colorado.
>
>Regardless of how you slice it, Penn State has yet to play a game
>against an impressive team. They had an impressive win against OSU,
>but threw away that by weak performances (DEFENSIVELY) against IU
>and IU.
So how does this same logic not apply to Nebraska, who had an impressive win
against Colorado, but struggled (OFFENSIVELY AND DEFENSIVELY) against noted
powerhouses Wyoming and Iowa State (#108)?
>I'd love to see a Penn State vs. Nebraska matchup in the Orange
>Bowl for the title. However, it was you folks who ducked that
>match.
This is the best statement of your entire posting. This is the truth, folks.
Penn Staters should not be whining that they don't get a chance to play
Nebraska - everybody knew this would probably happen when Paterno pansied out
of real football and decided to join the Big Ten.
I'm half-hoping Nebraska manages to pull the upset and beat Miami (tangent -
why is it that the Vegas line so often conflicts with the poll, especially
with historically overrated teams like Alabama, who is an underdog to Florida
despite a big lead in the polls), because then Penn State will have gotten
what they deserved - #2, if not #3.
---
Mike Dahmus Internet: mi...@vnet.ibm.com
Pen for OS/2 Development, IBM PSP IBM: mi...@schleppo.bocaraton.ibm.com
Disclaimer: Not an official IBM spokesman IBM Vnet: MDAHMUS at BOCA
Robert Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347
<anti - PSU fan article deleted >
>I just have to respond to this garbage.
>
>1) Penn State's defense doesn't suck. In fact it's rather good, maybe
>better than that.
doesn't suck? okay, I'm in a cheerful mood, it doesn't suck
rather good? damnit, don't push my buttons
better than good? laughable statement. Let's take a look at what you say.
>The statistics this year are not a good measure of the
>defense BECAUSE THEY ARE SPENDING 40+ MINUTES A GAME ON THE FIELD.
No need to shout.
If the statistics (and by that I would mean points scored, yards surrendered, and
TofP) are not a good measure, what is? You say it's rather good, maybe better.
By what measure is the PSU defense "rather good?"
>Normally, this would be a sign that the offense sucks.
True, but you and I know the PSU offense is excellent, maybe better than
that. Let's continue. There's a different reason why PSU spends 40 minutes
a game on the field.
>But this year is
>unprecedented in that the Penn State Offense is scoring 48 points a game in
>about 20 minutes of possession. That's one touchdown every 2:45 minutes.
I know. You scored 8 TDs in 7 minutes against my beloved Rutgers.
>The defense gets no rest.
Because they can't stop anybody. If they could force a few teams to go three and
out they wouldn't have such a high number of points allowed, yards surrendered,
and disparity of TofP. The PSU defense AND RU's 100+ yards in penalties still
couldn't stop the Knights from marching up and down the field. Same with
Temple, Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois. Not exactly a murderer's row.
>Yet they played spectacularly when it counted, in
>the second half against Michigan and Illinois, and they totally shut Ohio
>State down until they PSU their subs in. Contrary to popular newsgroup
>belief, the Indiana game was a blowout in the 4Q 35-14, until IU scored 15
>points in the last 3 minutes, 8 on the last play.
>
>2) Penn State has scored 35 points against the 6th ranked scoring defense
>(Illinois) and 63 points against the 9th ranked scoring defense (Ohio
>State). Penn State has generated a 27 point average spread this season.
Stop me if I screw this up, but earlier you say PSU is averaging 48 points
a game and now you say they win by an average 27 points. Doesn't that mean
they allow an average of 21 points a game? Isn't that a lot? Even for a quick
strike team? I mean I'll admit PSU has a VERY good team, one of the best in
the land, but to choose a #1 shouldn't that be a team that is very good on
both sides of the ball? I agree with Chris Stassen (?) who put it best
saying you have to have a very good defense to be considered the MNC.
>
>Nebraska on the other hand has scored 13 points against the 33rd ranked
>scoring defense (Oklahoma), 17 points against the 5th ranked (KSU), and 24
>points against the 26th ranked scoring defense (CU). Nebraska has
>generated a 24 point average spread.
>
>3) While Nebraska has been poor mouthing there QB injury situation, even
>though Berringer is your best QB, PSU has lost five DBs, 1 LB, and 1 DL.
>
>4) The Penn State 1st string defense has only given up 148 points (12 TDs
>being scored against the subs in the 4Q during blowouts!!) This is only 1
>point a game more than Nebraska is giving up.
Meaning what? Your defense has no depth? How is it "rather good" then?
>
>5) Nebraska is now going to have to play a real team.
I think this works against your aspirations. While Nebraska and Miami
are both up there with PSU in the MNC hunt, the Ducks are not. Either
Miami or Nebraska is going to impress the pollsters. A victory over the
Ducks probably won't do it for you. But you knew that 3 years ago when you
went into this conference and its Bowl tie-in. Didn't you?
>Miami is #1 rated
>Total Defense (220.9) and Scoring Defense (10.8). Miami is also scoring
>32 points a game. Nebraska has never faced a defense this good, and
>Colorado is the only offense Nebraska has faced with comparable ability.
>In the Orange Bowl (the stadium) you won't have a prayer.
>
>January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count. Penn State #1 consensus.
Will you still say "January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count"
if you beat the Ducks and come out second in the polls?
>
>Regards, Howard
Regards, Bob
--
Listen up son, and pay attention. | Bob Dieckmann (r...@quartet.att.com)
How ya' gonna learn anything if you | Rutgers Football: 1869 Co-MNC!!!!
always got your head in a book?" | I probably should've included smileys.
-- Foghorn Leghorn | Only opinions; but they're mine.
eric enholm
As do the PSU players and program
I also believe that the call in the ('82?) game between NU and PSU was
bad (on the pass reception prior to the winning touchdown) but I also
believe that the way PSU was moving the ball at the time, they would
have scored anyway. After all, even after that "tainted" reception,
we still had a chance to stop PSU, and didn't.
Good luck to PSU and NU in the bowls.
Wish they could share the MNC, if both win.
Eric Enholm
: Chris Fay
Paul A. Lane
I wrote:
>: Oh yeah. That perennial powerhouse Northwestern. And Iowa, Minnesota,
>: and Purdue ain't exactly frightening. The Big 8 is simply more polar-
>Purdue wasn't bad this year; I think they beat at least one of the
>better teams, like Michigan. Iowa, NWU and Minn aren't great, I
>grant that, but my point is that they're no were NEAR as bad as
>Oklahoma State, Iowa State, or (probably) Missouri.
Like I said. The Big 8 is polarized. Better at the top. Weaker
at the bottom.
>: ized this year with three top rank schools, two decent ones, and
>: three terrible ones. The Big 10 has 1 top rank school, around half
>: a dozen good teams, and bad news at the bottom.
>Again, check the out of conference records of these teams; nearly
>every Big 10 team was .500 or better outside of the conference.
>And not entirely against bad teams, either (like Iowa State).
Ehh. I haven't been too much a sports junkie, but usually most
teams in big conferences are >.500 out of conference.
>: >However, Nebraska will have looked absolutely awful against one or two
>: bottom 50 teams, while PSU looked terrible for one quarter against one
>: (Temple, 1st quarter, that's it). Nebraska's horribly inconsistent, and
>: will get smashed by Miami, 17-6.
>: Pure sophistry. You decide how a team should be ranked by how well
>: it does against the weakest competition? NU is #1 for two reasons:
>You're the one bringing up "top 10" teams as a measuring stick, so
>why shouldn't we use the terrible teams as well? I don't understand.
Maybe you don't understand, because I didn't bring up that measuring
stick. That was earlier in the thread. Try sticking to my 2 points.
>I still say that the only decent teams NU has played this year are
>Colorado and Kansas State; Oklahoma was OK, but not really good this
>year. And it -does- matter NU looked awful against awful teams
>like Iowa State.
Yeah, but go blame flukes of the year. Their preseason had WV
and UCLA, both coming off strong years. Incidnetally, though
you decry the top 10 measuring stick, it seems your measure of
decent teams is top 10. Both Oklahoma and West Virgina seem to
have performed about as well as most big 10 teams.
>: Regardless of how you slice it, Penn State has yet to play a game
>: against an impressive team. They had an impressive win against OSU,
>Ohio State, Michigan, USC are all impressive (and RANKED) teams. OSU
>and Michigan are both *as good as* Colorado; Michigan rightfully beat
>Colorado.
Top 10 is only decent, but anyone who is ranked is impressive?
You might want to check the finally score on the MU-CU game.
>: but threw away that by weak performances (DEFENSIVELY) against IU
>: and IU.
>Sorry, you can't count Indiana. The scrub defense played most of the
>second half, and allowed two fluke touchdowns (both similar to Colorado's
>"flying bullshit" that beat Michigan). The only games where PSU's
>defense really didn't do well were Michigan State, and the first half
>of the Illinois game. Most of the other scoring by other teams was
>against scrubs.
I didn't make a judgement of opinion there. However, it is clear
that the reason PSU got passed was weak defensive performance (29
points is 29 points) and the big NU over CU win.
>: I'd love to see a Penn State vs. Nebraska matchup in the Orange
>: Bowl for the title. However, it was you folks who ducked that
>: match.
>Stupid statement. I'm tired of everyone who only looks at PSU's decision
>to join the Big Ten from a football perspective; there was a *lot* more to
>it than that. They didn't join out of fear of the Big 8, that's for
>damn sure. Too bad you midwesterners won't get the chance to see how
>wrong you all are about PSU this year; it's a damn tragedy.
In case you hadn't noticed, THIS IS A FOOTBALL NEWSGROUP. I'll worry
about the implications for women's gymnastics and men's baseball later.
The university officials at Penn State knew that one of the possible
consequences of joining was getting locked into the Rose Bowl. Penn
State has a blowout win against OSU; Nebraska crushed Colorado. The
voters were more impressed with Nebraska. Deal with it.
Incidentally, try dividing the scores instead of subtracting and
that NU win looks just as impressive statistically.
Robert J. Dietrich
Jeff Miller <jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com> wrote:
>
>Nebraska has played more and better teams. They have proven it on the
>field. If PSU doesn't like it, too bad.
Another clueless fan. No ranking shows NU's schedule tougher than PSU's
and you can't even argue that they are close.
>One other thing to consider: do you think PSU could beat Miami at the
>Orange Bowl? You have not played a team all year with a defense any where
>near as good as Miami's, and PSU's defense would be lucky to hold Miami
>under 40 points. My prediction : Miami - 42, PSU - 17.
PSU lost the last 2 games to Miami. The last meeting in the OB was decided
by a couple of 80 yard plays by Miami. That PSU team wasn't as good as this
years and that Miami team was better than this years. Even the scarecrow
could figure this one out. :-)
Bob D.
Christopher L Fay
bounds, and was there when he had possession.
For a group of fans who complains so much about "whiny PSU fans", I've never
heard so much whining about a game that took place over 10 years ago. Waahh.
I'm going to call the Wahhmbulance to pick you guys up. I can hear the siren
now, and it sounds like Nebraska fans: "wahhh, Wahhhh. We lost. Waahhh."
PENN STATE 1982 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS.
PENN STATE 1986 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS.
Chris Fay
clf...@psuvm.psu.edu
Go State Beat Ducks.
Mama Cass said it best when she imitated Nebraska in bowl games.
Christopher L Fay
of the performance of PSU vs. OSU that same week. Many AP voters had believed
CU would win (why, I have NO idea) and would place CU at #1 regardless of the
outcome of the PSU game. When NU won, they kept the philosophy with a
different team. The USA Today poll found PSU's win vs. OSU to be impressive
and kept PSU at #1, but switched after a poor finish against IU (ie. putting
in the 2nd string to run out the clock up by 21 with 2 minutes left, only to
win by 6).
Most of the poll votes are decided before the games. It will be telling
to see where PSU and Bama end up if Bama wins this weekend. The team that is
#2 will move to #1 if NU loses, and the #3 will be stuck hoping 1 and 2 lose,
and Miami will have to hope PSU and Bama lose (again, assuming Bama wins vs.
UF) and win to be #1.
I have no doubt that Miami would be #1 if they beat NU in any way, shape
of form and there are no perfect records left.
There is no doubt anywhere that NU will be #1 if they win. This is a
shame, especially if there are other perfect-record teams left.
There is no doubt that some kind of playoff really needs to be made, and
maybe we should all root for NU, PSU, and Bama just to prove the point.
Chris Fay
clf...@psuvm.psu.edu
Go State Beat Ducks!
Jeff Miller
>In article <3bd8r1$f...@borg.it.uswc.uswest.com>,
>Jeff Miller <jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com> wrote:
>>
>>Nebraska has played more and better teams. They have proven it on the
>>field. If PSU doesn't like it, too bad.
>Another clueless fan. No ranking shows NU's schedule tougher than PSU's
>and you can't even argue that they are close.
How many CURRENT top-ten teams has PSU beaten?
Jeff Miller
jxm...@borg.mnet.uswest.com
"Performing random acts of
moral ambiguity."
Mike Dahmus
Jeff Miller <jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com> wrote:
>r...@honshu.tbu.att.com (Robert J. Dietrich) writes:
>
>>In article <3bd8r1$f...@borg.it.uswc.uswest.com>,
>>Jeff Miller <jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Nebraska has played more and better teams. They have proven it on the
>>>field. If PSU doesn't like it, too bad.
>
>>Another clueless fan. No ranking shows NU's schedule tougher than PSU's
>>and you can't even argue that they are close.
>
>How many CURRENT top-ten teams has PSU beaten?
How many computer ranking systems either:
1. Rank Nebraska ahead of Penn State
2. Rank Nebraska's schedule ahead of Penn State's
In the Sagarin system, Penn State has beatan #8 Ohio State, while
Nebraska has beaten #6 Colorado. If you go top 20, it's worse for Nebraska,
who gets K-State in comparison to USC and Michigan for PSU.
--
Mike Dahmus Curator, rec.sport.football Hall o' Bait
mi...@gate.net also mi...@vnet.ibm.com
Please don't vote me new Kibo! "Something must be BROKEN here at IBM!"
john apostol
The first foot to 'land' after he caught the ball was 3 feet out of bounds,
as clearly seen on numerous replays. It was worse than the 'ghost' touchdown
PSU made against Indiana this year.
PSU's 82 MNC will always have an asterick by it.
+++
JCA +-----------+ +--------+ +++
John Leinaweaver
|> Alright, more whining. Oh, our defense has soooooo many injuries, so that's
|> why we gave up so many points to a bunch of nobodies. God, give a break
|> would you? PSU fans.....Whiners of the Year!! Hands down!! When you can
|> go undefeated without your best QB, maybe your whining might make some sense,
|> but please, face it. Your defense is swiss cheese baby! Oregon is gonna
|> have fun eating up your swiss cheese defense. BTW, I didn't realize that
|> Colorado and K-State weren't real teams. I'd be willing to bet that both
|> would beat your Lions! Chad May would eat your swiss cheese defense up and
|> the Heisman trophy winner, Rashan Salaam, that's right, not Carter, not
|> Collins, Salaam, would run for 300 yards against your swiss cheese defense.
|> So, believe me, NU has played some real teams (and a couple of Top 10 teams)
|> while you have played a bunch of nobodies. Boy, such a bad year for the PSU
|> boys.....they can;t win the Heisman and they won't win the MNC. Why? Their
|> swiss cheese defense!!!!!
pot.kettle.blackshirt
losing your best QB doesn't mean anything until Nebraska adds the
forward pass to the playbook.
|> \_-//' / //<, -------------- Daniel C. Stamey
--
John Leinaweaver | A.,.A
le...@bae.bellcore.com | (u u )\-=-__---===-.
_ __ __ _ __ | `.^,,' , ( \`-.
' ) ) ( ) ' ) / | /~/~~~~~ /...;/~~~~~ (`\`.
/--' \ / / | """"~~~~~~~~~~""~~~~~~~,','
/ (__) (__/ | Lions Roar in '94 `"
John Leinaweaver
|> Miami may have had PSU beat in every statistical category in 1986. That would
|> explain why the Vegas oddsmakes had Miami the favorite. Too bad you missed the
|> clip on College football lines. When the Oddsmakers came up with their final
|> stats, they picked PSU by 1 1/2. But knowing Miami's fair-weather support,
|> they gaven Miami a close edge because everyone was stupid enough to think Miami
|> would destroy PSU. Meanwhile, the bookies raked in the bucks.
|> The other thing many people did not realize is that by the 2nd half of
|> gameday, the whole Fiesta Bowl was practically rooting for PSU. Much of the
|> seating was occupied by Phoenix area businessmen, and Miami, in their fatigues
|> pulling crap like leaving in the middle of a major dinner, did nothing but
|> irritate the locals. So they all showed up and rooted for the Nittany Lions,
|> who arrived in the usual coats and ties, and presented themselves in a positive
|> manner to the area. Even at the game, people with no real interest became
|> engrossed in the PSU spirit that was pervading the crowd.
|> This is the major reason Miami can't win outside of the Orange Bowl...
|> it's the only place they play where acting like a jerk is considered "cool".
Well, not quite,
I seem to remember a Cotton Bowl in the not to distant past where the
Canes had something like 200 yards in penalities. This act brought the
unsportsmanlike conduct rules.
Then there was the game at Colorado last year which had the brawl which
brought the fighting and leaving the bench to join a fight rules.
Miami seems to have a big impact everywhere they go, the Hurricane nickname
seems to fit.
Kerm
(john apostol) says:
>
> +++
>JCA +-----------+ +--------+ +++
> | Nebraska \ | Penn State |
> +--+ | | |
> +---------+ +------------+
>
+++ +++
+ +----------+ + +----------+
| Penn State / or | Penn State | is much more accurate
| \ | |
+------------+ +------------+
kerm
ROAR LIONS ROAR!!!!!
Go State Beat Ducks!!!
Paul A. Lane
>>Oh yeah. That perennial powerhouse Northwestern. And Iowa, Minnesota,
>>and Purdue ain't exactly frightening. The Big 8 is simply more polar-
>>ized this year with three top rank schools, two decent ones, and
>>three terrible ones. The Big 10 has 1 top rank school, around half
>>a dozen good teams, and bad news at the bottom.
>This isn't true at all, at least according to the computer rankings I posted.
For a primer on the value of computer rankings, I might suggest looking
at the NFL this year. Teams bounce up. Teams bounce back down. It's jsut
a way of integrating statistics.
>The Big 8 has one great team, so does the Big Ten.
>Both have one "very good" team (#6, #8)
Sorry. OSU at 8-3 hasn't impressed me. Neither K-State nor CU have
been badly beaten. And every other team in the Big 10/1 has at
least 4 losses.
>The real difference is in the gap between about #10 and about #35. The Big 8
>has only one team in that area (Kansas State at #15), while the Big Ten has
>three or four (I don't remember where Wisconsin was - I left the paper at
>home, and they weren't one of PSU's opponents).
K-State is something of an enigma. They've performed well against lesser
teams this year and played well in losing to NU and CU. Unfortunately,
their schedule is a leftover from the weaker days. So we haven't got
to see how well they'll perform against mid-rank teams such as OSU
and Michigan.
>The other big difference is that the Big 8 has a team even worse than
>Temple (#93 or so), and three teams that are MUCH worse than Northwestern
>(#65 or so)
Again, you take conference strangth by looking at the bottom. The
Big 8 is better on top. The Big 10/1 has a pack in the middle. By
stating one is better than the other, you're simply revealing your
bias for which you consider more important. Example: the NFC Central
top to bottom outperformed the other divisions last year. However,
if you ask most pro fans, they'll tag the NFC East as the stronger
division. Why? Because of superbowls over the last four years.
>>Pure sophistry. You decide how a team should be ranked by how well
>>it does against the weakest competition? NU is #1 for two reasons:
>>
>>(1) Performed much better than expected in the OB last year.
>>
>>(2) Dominated Colorado.
>>Regardless of how you slice it, Penn State has yet to play a game
>>against an impressive team. They had an impressive win against OSU,
>>but threw away that by weak performances (DEFENSIVELY) against IU
>>and IU.
>So how does this same logic not apply to Nebraska, who had an impressive win
>against Colorado, but struggled (OFFENSIVELY AND DEFENSIVELY) against noted
>powerhouses Wyoming and Iowa State (#108)?
Several reasons. You evidently don't look at the polls much over time.
A later game is given much more weight than an earlier game (inciden-
tally, this is what the NYT poll does). The old statement "its not
who you lost to, but when you lose" has much truth to it. Otherwise,
CU would be ranked over Miami hands down.
Penn State didn't get any benefit from the NU-ISU game, because that
weekend they were struggling to beat Illinois.
You do a nice job of misrepresentation. My statement was why NU is
#1. In other words, why the voters jumped NU over Penn State. The
logic the poll used is clear. Complain to them, don't make the
assumption that is my lgoic.
>>I'd love to see a Penn State vs. Nebraska matchup in the Orange
>>Bowl for the title. However, it was you folks who ducked that
>>match.
>This is the best statement of your entire posting. This is the truth, folks.
>Penn Staters should not be whining that they don't get a chance to play
>Nebraska - everybody knew this would probably happen when Paterno pansied out
>of real football and decided to join the Big Ten.
I'll admit to a bit of flame-bait here. Look at the thread title.
However, it was known that the Big 10/1 is locked into a bowl. If
winning a MNC is so important, the administration should have con-
sidered that factor. And I said word 0 about Paterno.
As a final note, I haven't heard much from PSU woofers about PSU
jumping NU on a week when NU won a convincing game *AT* Kansas State.
If there was any cause for complaint, that week had it. Both CU and
NU had a legitimate claim to #1; the winner of that game was going to
be #1.
HOWARD NEWSTADT
Stamey) wrote:
they won't win the MNC. Why? Their
> swiss cheese defense!!!!!
TELL IT TO MIAMI, CHEESEBOY!
HN PSU MBA 85g
William Tucker
> In article <eberts-28...@shays.uoregon.edu>,
> sonny hays-eberts <ebe...@oregon.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> >
> >nebraska lost a starting qb and is *still* undefeated. could penn state
> >have done the same? would they have come back against illinois with
whoever
> >sits behind collins?
IMHO . . . If PSU had it's original Defense ... YES.
Illinois doesn't jump out to the big lead and PSU still scores 24 points.
William Tucker
> r...@honshu.tbu.att.com (Robert J. Dietrich) writes:
>
> >In article <3bd8r1$f...@borg.it.uswc.uswest.com>,
> >Jeff Miller <jxm...@borg.uswc.uswest.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>Nebraska has played more and better teams. They have proven it on the
> >>field. If PSU doesn't like it, too bad.
>
> >Another clueless fan. No ranking shows NU's schedule tougher than
PSU's
> >and you can't even argue that they are close.
>
> How many CURRENT top-ten teams has PSU beaten?
>
Well currently none. Shouln't we wait until after the bowls before asking
about CURRENT teams.
Justin Frederich
>I'd be very suprised if Oregon can do what no one else has managed
>to do this season - including teams with better defense stats - and
>that is hold PSU to less than 31 points. That's the NCAA record
>they set this year.
Pull your head out of your ass. You're making up records faster
than I can check on them.
1983 Nebraska averaged 52 points, 1989 Houston averaged 53.5 but
the NCAA record is 56 by Army in 1944.
>The real question is can Oregon score more than 31 against PSU's
>weakened defense and hold PSU to only 31. When JoePa, Mr. Modesty
>and non-political coach, himself comes out and says "I really can't
>see anyone beating this Penn State team", I doubt Oregon has much
>of a chance of doing so.
Gee - that sounds like a 'modest' statement. JoePa also endorses
political candidates and politics for his team to get higher rankings
or hadn't you noticed ?
Justin Frederich
Tony Defina
>
>He was 3 feet out of bounds when his other foot landed and he had possesion of
>the ball. I saw numerous replays as well.
>
>
Wow! That is some stride! 3 feet! Must have been the Jolly Green
Giant catching that ball!
Sides, what do you mean by other foot landed? The trail foot was hit
the ground. You only need 1 in college, you know.
'Sides, I guess NO close calls EVER went Nebraska's way, now did they?
Tony
Christopher L Fay
taught ya.
The Record was "Never held to less than 31 points". Did '83 Nebraska do that?
Nope. Higher scoring average translation: ROTS on usual Big8 or I-AA
opponents, not score quite so well against real teams.
We are not talking about average score here. While 47.8 is a HUGE Big Ten
Record (prev something like 40...Translation: Big Ten = defense) it is >duh<
not an NCAA record. Nobody said it was.
Translation: Pull YOUR head out of YOUR ass, and learn to read.
Chris Fay
clf...@psuvm.psu.edu
Go State Beat Ducks!
Paul L Pearson
IF PSU beats Oregon, tehn they will have defeated a (sic) top ten team
(with three losses),
but they wouldn't be ranked in the top ten after that loss. Ohio State
is the only other chance, but they'll get waxed by 'Bama. NU (if they
win) will have defeated CU (top five), KSU (top ten now in one poll, in
bothe after they beat BC),
and Miami (currently #3, top ten if they lose, on their home field in
the orange bowl).
The bottom half of the Big 8 sucking makes up for the mediocre Big
1011131516171819 teams all lumped in the middle. PSU quality wins were
against tOSU, Michigan, and USC. NU's quality wins were against CU, and KSU,
both currently ranked in top 10. NU has beaten TTech, WVU, and OU who
are all bowl-bound, as well. Did PSU beat any other bowl teams?? (
The schedules are virtually identical overall, but NU has beaten
'better' teams. Add Miami to the list and NU has definitely had the tougher
schedule as far as the ranked and bowl-bound teams go.
the Pro...Fuskers!!
--
Paul L. "I'm an unstable intermediate with a long half-life at 37oC"
"Pro"
Pearson, President-Kurt Rambis Fan Club, Ames, IA Chapter (unofficial)
roger simonsen
: they'll be back for the Rose Bowl. PSU is down to it's 5th and 6th string
: defensive backs. NU would have lost it's last 2 games if they had lost as
: many players on defense.
*****************************************
not that i'm trying to get involved in this argument, but nebraska's
2nd team defense is tremendous--quite possibly will become even better
than this year's squad. that's what has made them so effective on
defense is their great depth and ability to rotate players without
losing much effectiveness. i think nebraska's 2nd team defense is
possibly the best group of backups in the country.
Justin Frederich
Hey I would if you and a few others would post more clearly.
When you eliminate all or most of the original it makes it
hard to argue a point so I'll just bow down your supposed
superior wisdom (hell after I left St. Louis I went to a southern
school) and apologize for my stupidity.
There feel better now ?
Justin - still like hitting them JoePa golf balls - Frederich
Christopher L Fay
The original very clearly states that PSU was never held to less than 31 points
and says nothing about averages and says that never being held to less than
31 was an NCAA record.
BTW, the original wasn't my post. But seeing you call for a "head out of her
ass" comment against something which was very clearly written deserves some
heat.
HOWARD NEWSTADT
Subject: Re: PSU BY ANY OTHER NAME IS #1
Organization: YALE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE
HN PSU MBA 85g
--
|Fidonet: HOWARD NEWSTADT 1:3609/504
|Internet: HOWARD....@holt-systems.com
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.
Justin Frederich
Subject: Re: PSU: BY ANY OTHER NAME WOULD BE #1
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
har...@fitk10fi.gs.com (Theresa Harpster) writes:
Justin Frederich
--
|Fidonet: Justin Frederich 1:3609/504
|Internet: Justin.F...@holt-systems.com
HOWARD NEWSTADT
Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347) wrote:
> In article <HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.Y...@hnewstadt.med.yale.edu>,
> >January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count. Penn State #1 consensus.
>
> Will you still say "January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count"
> if you beat the Ducks and come out second in the polls?
>
I meant January 3, 1995. Sorry, but that was my only mistake in the whole
post.
PSU No. 1
The Scarlet Knights got that way by playing Penn St. every year.
HN
Robert Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347
HOWARD NEWSTADT <HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.YALE.EDU> wrote:
>In article <D03oH...@nntpa.cb.att.com>, r...@quartet.mt.att.com (Robert
>Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347) wrote:
>
>>
>> Will you still say "January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count"
>> if you beat the Ducks and come out second in the polls?
>
>I meant January 3, 1995. Sorry, but that was my only mistake in the whole
>post.
>
For a technical communicator, I do a poor job here. I wasn't quibbling about
the date. I don't think PSU stands much chance of being #1 in the final
Coaches' Poll or the AP Poll. And I don't think you're going to be in agreement
with the final polls.
What I mean is this: Suppose you beat the Ducks and Nebraska beats Miami.
Would you be in agreement with the pollsters on January 3, 1995 (or any date
after the polls are printed) if they vote Nebraska #1 and PSU #2?
To get more to the heart of my question, suppose you beat the Ducks and Miami
beats Nebraska. Would you be in agreement with the final poll if it shows
Miami #1 and PSU #2?
But you knew these risks going into this year didn't you? Remember all the
articles 3 years ago that were saying how much JoePa wanted to win a Rose Bowl
before he retires? Looks like he'll get his wish. But, to be voted #1,
you're in the unenviable situation of hoping Miami/Nebraska tie.
So, the previous polls "counted" because they paired up a probable
championship game.
--
Listen up son, and pay attention. | Bob Dieckmann (r...@quartet.att.com)
How ya' gonna learn anything if you | Rutgers Football: 1869 Co-MNC!!!!
always got your head in a book?" | I probably should've included smileys.
-- Foghorn Leghorn | Only opinions; but they're mine.
Mike Dahmus
Robert Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347 <r...@quartet.mt.att.com> wrote:
>But you knew these risks going into this year didn't you? Remember all the
>articles 3 years ago that were saying how much JoePa wanted to win a Rose Bowl
>before he retires? Looks like he'll get his wish. But, to be voted #1,
>you're in the unenviable situation of hoping Miami/Nebraska tie.
Oddly enough, I remember some genius predicting that something like this season
would happen. I wonder who that genius was?
Laaaaaaazzz!!!
> Oddly enough, I remember some genius predicting that something like this season
> would happen. I wonder who that genius was?
Beano Cook?
-Lazaros T. Volikas Go Nittany Lions!
LTV...@cac.psu.edu #2 for the moment
LTV...@psuvm.psu.edu :)
laz...@psu.edu URL: http://cac.psu.edu/~ltv100
laz...@cyberspace.org
"Just because you're paranoid/Don't mean they're not after you." - Nirvana
Joe Bonaker
>The first foot to 'land' after he caught the ball was 3 feet out of bounds,
>as clearly seen on numerous replays. It was worse than the 'ghost' touchdown
>PSU made against Indiana this year.
The notable difference being that the '82 official was (correctly)
watching the receiver's footing while the '94 official was following
the ball. Apparently, the '82 official couldn't gauge exactly when the
ball arrived; it appeared to have been caught 6-12 inches into the
receiver's ascent off of his last, in-bounds foot. Still a bad call,
but perhaps not the blatant error it seemed to be.
>PSU's 82 MNC will always have an asterick by it.
^^^^^^^^
[sic] I believe you misspelled this one. The correct spelling of the
word is "asshole" -- as in "see apo...@mksol.dseg.ti.com," as in
surgically remove your head from yours and find a life. Moreover,
there's no asterisk until Oliver Stone makes the movie....
As good as the '82 Huskers were, they were unable to defeat Penn
State. Deal with PSU's "12-man offense" and move on. Your
net.blubbering reflects poorly on some of the best fans in the game.
Joe B.
p.s. You must be one of the top rsfc.anglers. You get my vote for the
1994 "Jonah" Big-Catch Trophy. Hmmm ... better make that the '82
trophy!
HOWARD NEWSTADT
Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347) wrote:
> In article <HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.Y...@hnewstadt.med.yale.edu>,
wrote:
> >> Will you still say "January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count"
> >> if you beat the Ducks and come out second in the polls?
> >
> >I meant January 3, 1995. Sorry, but that was my only mistake in the whole
> >post.
> For a technical communicator, I do a poor job here. I wasn't quibbling about
> the date. I don't think PSU stands much chance of being #1 in the final
> Coaches' Poll or the AP Poll.
What I mean is this: Suppose you beat the Ducks and Nebraska beats
Miami.
> Would you be in agreement with the pollsters on January 3, 1995 (or any date
> after the polls are printed) if they vote Nebraska #1 and PSU #2?
> To get more to the heart of my question, suppose you beat the Ducks and Miami
> beats Nebraska. Would you be in agreement with the final poll if it shows
> Miami #1 and PSU #2?
>
THANKS FOR THE AMUSING REPLY!
If Nebraska wins narrowly, I believe PSU can still win on at least one poll
if not both by truly drubbing Oregon in historical fashion. If Nebraska
loses, and Penn State wins, score doesn't matter, PSU number 1, under this
assumption it cannot and will not happen any other way.
Steve Schmadeke
: In article <HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.Y...@hnewstadt.med.yale.edu>,
: Will you still say "January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count"
: if you beat the Ducks and come out second in the polls?
Sorry gentlemen, I guarantee that the poll effective January 3, 1994
will not even have Penn State in the top five and Notre Dame will be
second, claiming they wuz robbed.
Now as for January 3, 1995... :-)
Robert Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347
Mike Dahmus <mi...@news.gate.net> wrote:
>In article <D0IFE...@nntpa.cb.att.com>,
>Robert Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347 <r...@quartet.mt.att.com> wrote:
>>But you knew these risks going into this year didn't you? Remember all the
>>articles 3 years ago that were saying how much JoePa wanted to win a Rose Bowl
>>before he retires? Looks like he'll get his wish. But, to be voted #1,
>>you're in the unenviable situation of hoping Miami/Nebraska tie.
>
>Oddly enough, I remember some genius predicting that something like this season
>would happen. I wonder who that genius was?
Bill Walsh?
>--
>Mike Dahmus Curator, rec.sport.football Hall o' Bait
>mi...@gate.net also mi...@vnet.ibm.com
>Please don't vote me new Kibo! "Something must be BROKEN here at IBM!"
John Leinaweaver
> In article <HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.Y...@hnewstadt.med.yale.edu>,
> HOWARD NEWSTADT <HOWARD_NEWSTADT.QM.YALE.EDU> wrote:
> >In article <D03oH...@nntpa.cb.att.com>, r...@quartet.mt.att.com (Robert
> >Dieckmann-TP-77163A(MT3167)T347) wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Will you still say "January 3, 1994 is the only poll that will count"
> >> if you beat the Ducks and come out second in the polls?
> >
> >I meant January 3, 1995. Sorry, but that was my only mistake in the whole
> >post.
> >
>
>
> For a technical communicator, I do a poor job here. I wasn't quibbling about
> the date. I don't think PSU stands much chance of being #1 in the final
> Coaches' Poll or the AP Poll. And I don't think you're going to be in agreement
> with the final polls.
>
> What I mean is this: Suppose you beat the Ducks and Nebraska beats Miami.
> Would you be in agreement with the pollsters on January 3, 1995 (or any date
> after the polls are printed) if they vote Nebraska #1 and PSU #2?
> To get more to the heart of my question, suppose you beat the Ducks and Miami
> beats Nebraska. Would you be in agreement with the final poll if it shows
> Miami #1 and PSU #2?
It would essentially mean Miami's loss to Washington didn't count this year.
Washington, by the way, finished in the middle of the Pac 10.
If Wisconsin or Ohio State went 12-0 last year, would Florida State, with
it's one loss be #1 because they beat Nebraska? What if instead of losing
to ND on the road, Florida State loses to a middle of the road
Pac 10 team at home?
> But you knew these risks going into this year didn't you? Remember all the
> articles 3 years ago that were saying how much JoePa wanted to win a Rose Bowl
> before he retires? Looks like he'll get his wish. But, to be voted #1,
> you're in the unenviable situation of hoping Miami/Nebraska tie.
No, Penn State was not allowed in the Bowl Coalition 3 years ago, you would
have unbeaten Penn State in the Blockbuster bowl and unbeaten Nebraska
in the Orange Bowl. The intention of the Bowl Coalition was never to
have a championship, but rather better matchups between teams so the
bowl can make more dollars.
What would happen next year if the Big 8, SEC, and ACC champ all went
undefeated? Do we give the MNC to the coach who hasn't won it for
a long time?
> So, the previous polls "counted" because they paired up a probable
> championship game.
What exactly is a probable championship game? Does it include #4 jumping
to #1 in 1977 (when #2 beats a quality team convincingly)?
> --
> Listen up son, and pay attention. | Bob Dieckmann (r...@quartet.att.com)
Mike Dahmus
John Leinaweaver <le...@bae.bellcore.com> wrote:
>
>No, Penn State was not allowed in the Bowl Coalition 3 years ago, you would
>have unbeaten Penn State in the Blockbuster bowl and unbeaten Nebraska
>in the Orange Bowl. The intention of the Bowl Coalition was never to
>have a championship, but rather better matchups between teams so the
>bowl can make more dollars.
I hate giving these out to Penn Staters, but...
Congratulations. You have been selected by our panel of judges as Aggie Of
The Week for
[X] Continuing to assert that the Bowl Coalition wouldn't have made an
allowance for Penn State if they had remained an independent. Dammit,
John, you dolt, they knew PSU was entering the Big Ten the *very next
freaking year*!!
lein
posts.
--
John Leinaweaver
Jefferson N Glapski
> this is interesting, the new deja-google lets you reply to decade old
> posts.
I like this thread.
Any from 18 years ago?
--
Jefferson N. Glapski
http://www.glapski.com