If Palin can't manage her own kid, how can she manage the White House?
Tonawanda Kardex
the Presidency.
http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running this
country?
No, thanks.
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
Bill Hileman
If he does, one could bet that he never refers to them as "we."
Tonawanda Kardex
No, but I was a child once.
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
wrote:
> On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 2, 11:30 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Since McCain is so old, Sarah Palin would be one heartbeat away from
> > > the Presidency.
>
> > >http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
>
> > > Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running this
> > > country?
>
> > > No, thanks.
>
> > Do you have any children?
>
> No, but I was a child once.
And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
school?
REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
Road Rage
When will Democrats learn, suicide is the best way out.
Google Beta User
<Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > No, but I was a child once.
>
> And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> school?
I'm not knocking the kid.
What I'm doing is laughing at this idea that "it doesn't happen", or
that people that have sex outside of marriage are sinners or somehow
lacking in morals. Or the idea that birth control and sex education
is bad, and something that should be kept away from teens. That
abstinance only focus is the best way to reduce early sexual activity.
THAT'S what i shake my head at.
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
Fine - and that has what to do with the original post?
Kids are kids - guess what - they drink and get pregnant regardless of
whether they've received years of DARE training and absitenence
training/sex ed - or not.
Tonawanda Kardex
<Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> > <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 2, 11:30 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Since McCain is so old, Sarah Palin would be one heartbeat away from
> > > > the Presidency.
>
> > > >http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
>
> > > > Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running this
> > > > country?
>
> > > > No, thanks.
>
> > > Do you have any children?
>
> > No, but I was a child once.
>
> And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> school?
>
> REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
My parents weren't public servants, so your hypotheticals are
irrelevant.
dam
So children of public servants behave differently than other children?
dam
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
wrote:
> On Sep 2, 12:43 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
>
>
>
>
> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> > > <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sep 2, 11:30 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Since McCain is so old, Sarah Palin would be one heartbeat away from
> > > > > the Presidency.
>
> > > > >http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
>
> > > > > Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running this
> > > > > country?
>
> > > > > No, thanks.
>
> > > > Do you have any children?
>
> > > No, but I was a child once.
>
> > And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> > school?
>
> > REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
>
> My parents weren't public servants, so your hypotheticals are
> irrelevant
Are you serious with this response?
Damon Hynes
Yeah, Sarah should have kicked it Pakistani stylee. That'll teach the
kid.
Bill Hileman
I don't take anything he says seriously anymore... I think Dan S. is his
sock, too.
Trevor Zion Bauknight
<bd3d15c5-e549-4ec1...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Google Beta User <wany...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 12:43 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > No, but I was a child once.
> >
> > And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> > school?
>
> I'm not knocking the kid.
Nobody is.
> What I'm doing is laughing at this idea that "it doesn't happen", or
> that people that have sex outside of marriage are sinners or somehow
> lacking in morals. Or the idea that birth control and sex education
> is bad, and something that should be kept away from teens. That
> abstinance only focus is the best way to reduce early sexual activity.
>
> THAT'S what i shake my head at.
Yes, it's the attitudes of the parents toward other people that are at
issue. There's this idea that we can force government to enforce our
personal religious convictions on other people in the middle of a debate
on whether or not doing so would achieve the desired result -- it just
makes it more poignant when those that would do so are personally
impacted by the fact that those policies are inane, at best, and with
the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
they're getting in the bargain.
--
Trev
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
wrote:
> In article
> the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
> they're getting in the bargain.
Such as? I really have no idea what you could mean by this....
McMahone
Please stop this stupid bait. Football season has started and you are
throwing this garbage around?
It's not cute. It's not funny. It's not worth it.
Trevor Zion Bauknight
<1e8a9df8-91d0-4729...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
A better education about how their lives will be impacted by their
decision to have unprotected sex, instead of a lecture about it from the
preacher.
--
Trev
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
wrote:
> In article
> <1e8a9df8-91d0-4729-8295-c5f969e0d...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> > wrote:
> > > In article
>
> > > the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
> > > they're getting in the bargain.
>
> > Such as? I really have no idea what you could mean by this....
>
> A better education about how their lives will be impacted by their
> decision to have unprotected sex, instead of a lecture about it from the
> preacher.
>
> --
> Trev
Which is what goes on with the several years of sex ed the kids
already have. Ain't it grand how teen pregnancies have been reduced
to like nothing lately?
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> In article
> <1e8a9df8-91d0-4729-8295-c5f969e0d...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> > wrote:
> > > In article
>
> > > the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
> > > they're getting in the bargain.
>
> > Such as? I really have no idea what you could mean by this....
>
> A better education about how their lives will be impacted by their
> decision to have unprotected sex, instead of a lecture about it from the
> preacher.
>
> --
> Trev
And of course you know that never happened? (Not saying it did,
but I've known plenty of "pro-abstinence" parents that take that very
position)
Tom Enright
wrote:
> In article
<snip>
> Yes, it's the attitudes of the parents toward other people that are at
> issue. There's this idea that we can force government to enforce our
> personal religious convictions on other people in the middle of a debate
> on whether or not doing so would achieve the desired result -- it just
> makes it more poignant when those that would do so are personally
> impacted by the fact that those policies are inane, at best, and with
> the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
> they're getting in the bargain.
Your original premise is wrong, for two reasons.
Out-of-wedlock birth has an overall negative impact on society
independent of religion. I'm sure you can point to some Pacific
tribe where single parents are viewed as no or less desirable than any
other but the fact is regardless of religion (or lack of religion)
time, place out-of-wedlock births are considered a bad thing.
You have the the "force government" idea completely backwards. The
people you speak of want the government's role in such issues to be
very limited or eliminated completely. What they fight against is
government force. Their opponents, typically, are fighting to have
the government take-over the role of parent.
What MY kids NEED WRT sex education is entirely up to me and my wife
and nobody else.
-Tom Enright
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."
-Marcus Aurelius
> --
> Trev
Tom Enright
He means that after complaining, incorrectly, about the religious
right demanding that the government force their religious ideas on the
public at large he wants the governmnet to force HIS ideas on the
public at large.
-Tom Enright
Emperor Wonko the Sane
wrote:
> In article
> <1e8a9df8-91d0-4729-8295-c5f969e0d...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> > wrote:
> > > In article
>
> > > the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
> > > they're getting in the bargain.
>
> > Such as? I really have no idea what you could mean by this....
>
> A better education about how their lives will be impacted by their
> decision to have unprotected sex, instead of a lecture about it from the
> preacher.
>
Neither you nor I have any RSFCKing clue as what sex education Bristol
Palin has received from whom. She wouldn't be the first to get
everything possible from both school and church, and ended up pregnant
anyway.
Doug
Peach
Who's to say this is what was taught in the Palin household? Did you
live there? Isn't that an assumption (JUDGMENT) on your part? A
stereotype? Yes, I think so.
Peach
Peach
wrote:
> In article
> <1e8a9df8-91d0-4729-8295-c5f969e0d...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> > wrote:
> > > In article
>
> > > the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
> > > they're getting in the bargain.
>
> > Such as? I really have no idea what you could mean by this....
>
> A better education about how their lives will be impacted by their
> decision to have unprotected sex, instead of a lecture about it from the
> preacher.
>
> --
> Trev
Again, someone who grew up in the Palin household!!1!
Peach
Peach
wrote:
> On Sep 2, 12:27 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <1e8a9df8-91d0-4729-8295-c5f969e0d...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> > "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > In article
>
> > > > the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
> > > > they're getting in the bargain.
>
> > > Such as? I really have no idea what you could mean by this....
>
> > A better education about how their lives will be impacted by their
> > decision to have unprotected sex, instead of a lecture about it from the
> > preacher.
>
> Neither you nor I have any RSFCKing clue as what sex education Bristol
> Palin has received from whom. She wouldn't be the first to get
> everything possible from both school and church, and ended up pregnant
> anyway.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
DYHTBQITHCR.($1) (We have a winnah)
Peach
Eyes dilated, can't read.
Kyle T. Jones
time, oh, 9/2/2008 11:43 AM, or thereabouts, when you let the following
craziness loose on Usenet:
Are you arguing that parents bear no responsibility for the things their
kids do?
Cuz, unless that's it, it's kind of hard to suss out what yer arguing, here.
Randolph M. Jones
Google Beta User
> > THAT'S what i shake my head at.
>
> Who's to say this is what was taught in the Palin household? Did you
> live there? Isn't that an assumption (JUDGMENT) on your part? A
> stereotype? Yes, I think so.
I don't know what was taught to the Governors daughter.
I do know Palin is apparently pretty far right on social issues.
Before I quit the religion, I remember at youth services we'd be told
not to live sinful lives. I have a business associate who is
conservative who says when he's introduced to a young couple, if
they're living togetehr (i.e. sleeping together) and they're not
married, they're person non grata to him.
Social conservatives to me come across as "we're not part of the
sinning masses" vibes.
If I'm wrong, please tell me where I'm wrong, and how social
conservatives actually view extra-marital sex, teen sex and just sex
in general.
(No offense to you Peach, if you're a social conservative).
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
>
> - Show quoted text -
The efficacy of DARE is long held in question....
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
I met a commiehippiepinko type once upon a time who had kicked a
puppy. Therefore, all commiehippie pinko types are rabin dog killers
and eat puppies for lunch.
Trevor Zion Bauknight
<549a7257-5666-4d84...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
Peach <straw...@lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> Again, someone who grew up in the Palin household!!1!
I'm not just talking about Bristol Palin.
--
Trev
Trevor Zion Bauknight
<16f6bc90-a444-47af...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
True. I'm not just talking about Bristol Palin, however. I'm talking
about all the kids this woman's public policies would impact if she had
her way. Kids need more and more honest information, not less.
--
Trev
Tom Enright
wrote:
> In article
> <16f6bc90-a444-47af-a477-e6ae77acf...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> Emperor Wonko the Sane <d...@sorensensdomain.net> wrote:
> > Neither you nor I have any RSFCKing clue as what sex education Bristol
> > Palin has received from whom. She wouldn't be the first to get
> > everything possible from both school and church, and ended up pregnant
> > anyway.
> True. I'm not just talking about Bristol Palin, however. I'm talking
> about all the kids this woman's public policies would impact if she had
> her way. Kids need more and more honest information, not less.
From whom?
-Tom Enright
> --
> Trev
Peach
wrote:
> In article
> <549a7257-5666-4d84-8bb7-f5a0a5563...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
But isn't that what this thread is about? And how do you know they
didn't teach that in the Palin house?
Peach
Trevor Zion Bauknight
<c198d2e4-20e4-4e56...@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>,
Peach <straw...@lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 12:05 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> wrote:
> > In article
> > <549a7257-5666-4d84-8bb7-f5a0a5563...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Peach <strawbe...@lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> > > On Sep 2, 11:27 am, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <1e8a9df8-91d0-4729-8295-c5f969e0d...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > In article
> >
> > > > > > the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides what
> > > > > > they're getting in the bargain.
> >
> > > > > Such as? I really have no idea what you could mean by this....
> >
> > > > A better education about how their lives will be impacted by their
> > > > decision to have unprotected sex, instead of a lecture about it from the
> > > > preacher.
> >
> > > Again, someone who grew up in the Palin household!!1!
> >
> > I'm not just talking about Bristol Palin.
>
> But isn't that what this thread is about? And how do you know they
> didn't teach that in the Palin house?
I think the thread has evolved beyond the original, overly-simplistic
question. I don't know what they taught in the Palin household...only
what Sarah Palin has suggested ought to be taught to all children. I
can only assume that they're one and the same, and already having a
suspicion than it is the sort of thing that doesn't work, seeing it
borne out, so to speak, makes things pretty clear.
--
Trev
Peach
There are different realms of the "social conservative" spectrum. The
first guy you mentioned might be a social conservative, but he's also
a pious asshole, it seems.
As far as the "we're not part of the sinning masses" vibe--that's BS
amongst the conservatives I know, but again, it's all about who you
know, isn't it? Just because someone is told to "not live a sinful
life" doesn't mean he/she can attain it 100% of the time. Or even 50%
of the time. If one could, then we'd be a bunch of perfect little
saints running around. Everyone (even non-religious types) has an
ideal, nobody can attain it. Ever. As *humans*, we screw up time and
time again... thankfully, my daily screw ups aren't broadcast on
national television. Even so, just because someone's daily screw ups
*are* fodder for the press, it doesn't make them any more capable of
perfection.
I live a pretty upright kind of life, but God forbid McCain made me
his running mate. I swear at drivers, I fight with my daughter at
times, I used drugs in my 20s... Do I think that should keep me out
of the running? (If I was well-qualified, that is.) Hell, no. I don't
think anyone can measure up to the standards of the critics in RSFC.
Peach
Peach
wrote:
> In article
> <c198d2e4-20e4-4e56-a689-e462e65bd...@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
But rarely is any way of instruction 100% foolproof... there is no
perfection in life. And I know very few religious families that rely
on the "preacher" to teach their children about sex. (In fact, I don't
think I've heard a sermon about such a topic in many years... just
more assumptions)
Peach
Randolph M. Jones
think it doesn't matter what you do, because nothing has any effect.
And I doubt that's what you really think.
Tom Enright
> On Sep 2, 12:24 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> wrote:
> > I think the thread has evolved beyond the original, overly-simplistic
> > question. I don't know what they taught in the Palin household...only
> > what Sarah Palin has suggested ought to be taught to all children. I
> > can only assume that they're one and the same, and already having a
> > suspicion than it is the sort of thing that doesn't work, seeing it
> > borne out, so to speak, makes things pretty clear.
> But rarely is any way of instruction 100% foolproof... there is no
> perfection in life. And I know very few religious families that rely
> on the "preacher" to teach their children about sex. (In fact, I don't
> think I've heard a sermon about such a topic in many years... just
> more assumptions)
If one were to look at the worst out-of-wedlock birth rates in the
country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
country.
Bauknight doesn't want us to follow the examples of Orthodox Jews,
Muslims, Mormons etc. but he wants us to follow the example of those
who have the very highest out-of-wedlock birth rate. It is comprable
to the "Progressive" thread. Results aren't the issue, enforcing
control and a certain type of "morals" is.
-Tom Enright
> Peach
The BorgMan
news:3117297c-26a3-4512...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
> On Sep 2, 11:56 am, Google Beta User <wanyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 12:43 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>>
>> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > No, but I was a child once.
>>
>> > And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted
> up in
>> > school?
>>
>> I'm not knocking the kid.
>>
>> What I'm doing is laughing at this idea that "it doesn't happen", or
>> that people that have sex outside of marriage are sinners or somehow
>> lacking in morals. Or the idea that birth control and sex education
>> is bad, and something that should be kept away from teens. That
>> abstinance only focus is the best way to reduce early sexual activity.
>>
>> THAT'S what i shake my head at.
>
> Fine - and that has what to do with the original post?
>
> Kids are kids - guess what - they drink and get pregnant regardless of
> whether they've received years of DARE training and absitenence
> training/sex ed - or not.
Actually DARE has been shown to INCREASE the likelihood of kids doing
drugs... yet a whole bunch of idiots still seem to think it's a good idea
to lie to kids.
--
Aaron
The BorgMan
news:36290e6d-5055-4fd8...@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
Several years?
> Ain't it grand how teen pregnancies have been reduced
> to like nothing lately?
Ain't it grand how non "abstinence only" sex education has reduced teen
pregnancy rates?
--
Aaron
J.C. Watts Enslin
Yer OK by me Peachy...but I'm just a liberal-type with no values
whatsoever.
Jon
Peach
>
> >> THAT'S what i shake my head at.
>
> > Fine - and that has what to do with the original post?
>
> > Kids are kids - guess what - they drink and get pregnant regardless of
> > whether they've received years of DARE training and absitenence
> > training/sex ed - or not.
>
> Actually DARE has been shown to INCREASE the likelihood of kids doing
> drugs... yet a whole bunch of idiots still seem to think it's a good idea
> to lie to kids.
>
> --
> Aaron-
I think Jon actually did say that very thing later on in the thread...
Peach
Tom Enright
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote innews:3117297c-26a3-4512...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
> > Fine - and that has what to do with the original post?
> >
> > Kids are kids - guess what - they drink and get pregnant regardless of
> > whether they've received years of DARE training and absitenence
> > training/sex ed - or not.
> Actually DARE has been shown to INCREASE the likelihood of kids doing
> drugs... yet a whole bunch of idiots still seem to think it's a good idea
> to lie to kids.
Yes. It could be argued that ANY sex education could actually
increase the likelihood of teengage pregnancy for the same reason.
-Tom Enright
> --
> Aaron
The BorgMan
dee508...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> On Sep 2, 2:37 pm, Peach <strawbe...@lpbroadband.net> wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 12:24 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
>> wrote:
>
>> > I think the thread has evolved beyond the original, overly-simplistic
>> > question. I don't know what they taught in the Palin household...only
>> > what Sarah Palin has suggested ought to be taught to all children. I
>> > can only assume that they're one and the same, and already having a
>> > suspicion than it is the sort of thing that doesn't work, seeing it
>> > borne out, so to speak, makes things pretty clear.
>
>> But rarely is any way of instruction 100% foolproof... there is no
>> perfection in life. And I know very few religious families that rely
>> on the "preacher" to teach their children about sex. (In fact, I don't
>> think I've heard a sermon about such a topic in many years... just
>> more assumptions)
>
> If one were to look at the worst out-of-wedlock birth rates in the
> country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
> Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
> in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
> country.
How's about we look at teen pregnancy rates instead of "out of wedlock
birth rates"?
Worst ten states:
1. Nevada
2. Arizona
3. Mississippi
4. New Mexico
5. Texas
6. Florida
7. California
8. Georgia
9. North Carolina
10. Arkansas
Wow... what a bunch of hotbeds of Democratic control.
--
Aaron
J. Hugh Sullivan
<tonawan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Since McCain is so old, Sarah Palin would be one heartbeat away from
>the Presidency.
>
>http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
>
>Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running this
>country?
>
>No, thanks.
I submt that's no worse than Obama who lies about his race and Biden
who plagiarizes.
In fact, anyone who thinks he controls when his 17 year old drops her
panties is in desperate need of a cranial enema.
Hugh
Huck Kennedy
> > On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> > > Do you have any children?
>
>
> And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> school?
>
I don't know about Kardex, but my parents told me about condoms,
instead of just preaching abstinence, making it much less likely I'd
ever stupidly knock someone up while I was still a mere child myself.
Oh well, maybe we shouldn't be meddling in Palin's family
affairs--I mean, they have nothing to do with her judgment.
Ralph Kennedy
"This is rsfc, not the Algonquin roundtable."
-xyzzy, 2/16/07
rich hammett
olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Tom Enright:
Are you a liar or a moran?
There is a racial component, so DC leads the states in unmarried
pregnancies, but all of the rest of the leaders are in the
solid Reagan belt. Well, except for Delaware.
Nice lie, though, it took me about half an hour to find the
stats that showed you are a liar. Utah does have a low rate,
but then Nevada next door has one of the highest, despite it
being a fairly solidly republican state with a ton of Mormons.
rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/
\ "How come things that happen to stupid people keep
/ happening to me?!"
Tom Enright
> Tom Enright <freddy_ha...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:de5cc81a-cc42-45d8-bc2b-
> dee50832a...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> > If one were to look at the worst out-of-wedlock birth rates in the
> > country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
> > Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
> > in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
> > country.
> How's about we look at teen pregnancy rates instead of "out of wedlock
> birth rates"?
>
> Worst ten states:
>
> 1. Nevada
> 2. Arizona
> 3. Mississippi
> 4. New Mexico
> 5. Texas
> 6. Florida
> 7. California
> 8. Georgia
> 9. North Carolina
> 10. Arkansas
>
> Wow... what a bunch of hotbeds of Democratic control.
And comparing urban vs. suburban?
-Tom Enright
> --
> Aaron
Peach
> On Sep 2, 9:43 am, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> > > > Do you have any children?
>
> > > No, but I was a child once.
>
> > And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> > school?
>
> > REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
>
> I don't know about Kardex, but my parents told me about condoms,
> instead of just preaching abstinence, making it much less likely I'd
> ever stupidly knock someone up while I was still a mere child myself.
>
Yea, sweetie, but shit happens. RSFC is turning out to be a community
of control freaks.
> Oh well, maybe we shouldn't be meddling in Palin's family
> affairs--I mean, they have nothing to do with her judgment.
>
> Ralph Kennedy
>
Was that last line truthful? Or sarcastic bait??
Peach
rich hammett
>>Since McCain is so old, Sarah Palin would be one heartbeat away from
>>the Presidency.
>>
>>http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
>>
>>Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running this
>>country?
>>
>>No, thanks.
> I submt that's no worse than Obama who lies about his race and Biden
> who plagiarizes.
Okay, redneck bastard, back up your statement about Obama or
retract. Or tell us the truth about your "mixed blood."
rich
> In fact, anyone who thinks he controls when his 17 year old drops her
> panties is in desperate need of a cranial enema.
The BorgMan
Yet the evidence shows the following:
DARE - increased likelihood of drug use.
Non "Abstinence only" sex education - reduced likelihood of teen
pregnancy.
"Abstinence only" sex education - no change in likelihood of teen
pregnancy.
It turns out that ignoring biology and lying to kids don't work as
strategies, but giving them factual info and support does.
--
Aaron
The BorgMan
Urban is significantly worse, regardless of political leanings.
--
Aaron
Peach
>
> - Show quoted text -
The problem is, Aaron... you are *assuming* what the message is, once
again. How do you know what we are talking to our kids about? (Those
who choose to teach sex/birth control at home, rather than leave it to
the schools...which, to me, is just as bad as "leaving it to the
preacher in the pulpit." Last time I checked, it was *my* job.)
What most conservatives I know have issue with...not the message but
the medium.
Peach
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
>
> - Show quoted text -
In my gut, I feel that A) parents then B) culture then C) peers then
D) school/other sources.
Nothing? No - this I don't advocate. However the overreliance on
having OTHERS do parents' work is a huge mistake.
rich hammett
> On Sep 2, 1:46 pm, Huck Kennedy <tempeh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 9:43 am, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>>
>> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>>
>> > > > Do you have any children?
>>
>> > > No, but I was a child once.
>>
>> > And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
>> > school?
>>
>> > REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
>>
>> I don't know about Kardex, but my parents told me about condoms,
>> instead of just preaching abstinence, making it much less likely I'd
>> ever stupidly knock someone up while I was still a mere child myself.
>>
> Yea, sweetie, but shit happens. RSFC is turning out to be a community
> of control freaks.
For ME it's more not wanting her incompetence and bad decisions
(for BOTH unwed pregnancies) to be making decisions for the
sex education of the entire country. Because she obviously didn't
want either pregnancy to happen, and she still wants to tell us
(at least she did in 2006) that she knows the RIGHT way to do
sex education?
rich
>> Oh well, maybe we shouldn't be meddling in Palin's family
>> affairs--I mean, they have nothing to do with her judgment.
> Was that last line truthful? Or sarcastic bait??
> Peach
--
The BorgMan
news:4cabd497-0519-4fb7...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
> On Sep 2, 2:10 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
>> Tom Enright <freddy_ha...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> innews:c662e776-6418-4d91-ad2a
> -d1d3dd...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 2, 3:21 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
>> >> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >> innews:3117297c-26a3-4512...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups
>> >> .co m:
>>
>> >> > Fine - and that has what to do with the original post?
>>
>> >> > Kids are kids - guess what - they drink and get pregnant
>> >> > regardless of whether they've received years of DARE training
>> >> > and absitenence training/sex ed - or not.
>>
>> >> Actually DARE has been shown to INCREASE the likelihood of kids
>> >> doing drugs... yet a whole bunch of idiots still seem to think
>> >> it's a good idea to lie to kids.
>>
>> > Yes. It could be argued that ANY sex education could actually
>> > increase the likelihood of teengage pregnancy for the same reason.
>>
>> Yet the evidence shows the following:
>>
>> DARE - increased likelihood of drug use.
>>
>> Non "Abstinence only" sex education - reduced likelihood of teen
>> pregnancy.
>>
>> "Abstinence only" sex education - no change in likelihood of teen
>> pregnancy.
>>
>> It turns out that ignoring biology and lying to kids don't work as
>> strategies, but giving them factual info and support does.
>>
>
> The problem is, Aaron... you are *assuming* what the message is, once
> again. How do you know what we are talking to our kids about? (Those
> who choose to teach sex/birth control at home, rather than leave it to
> the schools...which, to me, is just as bad as "leaving it to the
> preacher in the pulpit." Last time I checked, it was *my* job.)
>
> What most conservatives I know have issue with...not the message but
> the medium.
I'm talking about school teaching only - ignoring what is presented in
the home.
Statistically kids who have been through DARE programs are more likely to
use drugs than those that have not.
Statistically kids who have been through Non "Abstinence only" sex
education have reduced teen pregnancy rates over the teens as a whole.
Statistically kids who have been through "Abstinence only" sex education
don't have reduced teen pregnancy rates over the teens as a whole.
--
Aaron
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote innews:36290e6d-5055-4fd8...@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:27 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> > wrote:
> >> In article
> >> <1e8a9df8-91d0-4729-8295-c5f969e0d...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> >> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Sep 2, 12:18 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...
>
> @moodchanginggood.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > In article
>
> >> > > the fact that the kids involved clearly need something besides
> what
> >> > > they're getting in the bargain.
>
> >> > Such as? I really have no idea what you could mean by this....
>
> >> A better education about how their lives will be impacted by their
> >> decision to have unprotected sex, instead of a lecture about it from
> the
> >> preacher.
>
> >> --
> >> Trev
>
> > Which is what goes on with the several years of sex ed the kids
> > already have.
>
> Several years?
Oh damn - you're right - several usually means 3....not 4 with 5 more
to come
> > Ain't it grand how teen pregnancies have been reduced
> > to like nothing lately?
>
> Ain't it grand how non "abstinence only" sex education has reduced teen
> pregnancy rates?
So, since lots of sex ed has done nothing and no sex ed has done
nothing.......ya think it might have to do with a little more than
what they learn in school?
lein
> On Sep 2, 12:43 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > No, but I was a child once.
>
> > And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> > school?
>
>
> What I'm doing is laughing at this idea that "it doesn't happen", or
> that people that have sex outside of marriage are sinners or somehow
> lacking in morals. Or the idea that birth control and sex education
> is bad, and something that should be kept away from teens. That
> abstinance only focus is the best way to reduce early sexual activity.
>
> THAT'S what i shake my head at.
So you are all packed up and ready to go on a business trip, your wife
drops you off at the airport. At the last minute, your wife hands
you a box of condoms and tells you that "she trusts you and wants you
to be safe". What message do you think she is sending you? That's
the message sex ed in schools gives your kids.
Tonawanda Kardex
> On Sep 2, 1:04 pm, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:43 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> > <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> > > > <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Sep 2, 11:30 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > Since McCain is so old, Sarah Palin would be one heartbeat away from
> > > > > > the Presidency.
>
> > > > > >http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
>
> > > > > > Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running this
> > > > > > country?
>
> > > > > > No, thanks.
>
>
>
> > > And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> > > school?
>
>
> > irrelevant.
>
> So children of public servants behave differently than other children?
Of course; just as the parents who are public servants need to behave
better than "average" parents.
You choose a public life, you need to lead by example.
I am not saying I like it; I am not saying I agree with it. But it's
the way it is.
Tonawanda Kardex
> The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 12:04 pm, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> On Sep 2, 12:43 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> >> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
> >>>> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Sep 2, 11:30 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Since McCain is so old, Sarah Palin would be one heartbeat away
> >>>>>> from the Presidency.
>
> >>>>>>http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
>
> >>>>>> Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running
> >>>>>> this country?
>
> >>>>>> No, thanks.
>
> >>>>> Do you have any children?
>
> >>>> No, but I was a child once.
>
> >>> And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> >>> school?
>
> >>> REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
>
> >> My parents weren't public servants, so your hypotheticals are
> >> irrelevant
>
>
> I don't take anything he says seriously anymore... I think Dan S. is his
> sock, too.
You're all my dirty socks.
The BorgMan
> On Sep 2, 2:23 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
>> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote
>> innews:362
> 90e6d-5055-4fd8-...@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com:
I had about 2 hours of sex ed in my school education.
>> > Ain't it grand how teen pregnancies have been reduced
>> > to like nothing lately?
>>
>> Ain't it grand how non "abstinence only" sex education has reduced
>> teen pregnancy rates?
>
> So, since lots of sex ed has done nothing
False. Non "absitnence only" sex ed has been shown to lower teen
pregnancy rates.
--
Aaron
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote innews:fd918341-58d7-4706...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 2:23 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
> >> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> innews:362
....in some cases and in combination with other factors, yada yada
yada
Correlation does not prove causation and you know that.
Especially when you leave contraception and abortion out of the
equation.
Frankly, the decline in birth rates over the last 50 years is abyssmal
considering how many more kids have easy and ready access to birth
control AND abortions. It ought to be significantly lower than it is.
Unless of course, you consider contraceptive access and abortion "sex
ed".
Huck Kennedy
In your heart, you knoe it's sarcastic bate!!@!!1
Actually, I'm taking a shot at abstinence-only educators in
general. Adolescents will be adolescents, and expecting abstinence-
only education to work is extremely unrealistic.
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote innews:fd918341-58d7-4706...@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 2:23 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
> >> "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> innews:362
Sorry - missed this earlier.
Where the hell did you go to school and how old are you?
I had sex ed for at least 6 years when I was growing up.
Right Is wrong
<78d91cdd-66d1-4676...@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
lein <boomer_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
Sure it does. LMFAO. Because kids are married and they need to faithful.
Apples and oranges. If you don't talk to your kids and trust them they
end up like Bend Over Bristol.
idiot.
so fucking stupid it has to be bait.
Right Is wrong
<4cabd497-0519-4fb7...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Peach <straw...@lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 2:10 pm, The BorgMan <m...@me.net> wrote:
> > Tom Enright <freddy ha...@yahoo.com> wrote
then why are con-servatives so worried about telling everyone who they
can fuck, who they can marry, what they can watch, what they can listen
to, what the can read, etc, etc, etc...?
Oh, the moral hypocrisy.
Jim Gysin
The BorgMan sent the following on 9/2/2008 2:31 PM:
Source?
I ask because the simple truth is that blue state kids are *much* more
likely to have abortions, which could skew the above considerably. So
if your numbers here are looking at pregnancies carried to term, it
really tells us little about the reality behind things.
--
Jim Gysin
Waukesha, WI
Trevor Zion Bauknight
<78d91cdd-66d1-4676...@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
lein <boomer_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
Horseshit.
Anyway, what's the alternative? Pretending the feelings they're having
either don't exist or are harmful?
--
Trev
Jim Gysin
Huck Kennedy sent the following on 9/2/2008 2:46 PM:
> On Sep 2, 9:43 am, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>>>> Do you have any children?
>>> No, but I was a child once.
>> And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
>> school?
>>
>> REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
>
> I don't know about Kardex, but my parents told me about condoms,
> instead of just preaching abstinence, making it much less likely I'd
> ever stupidly knock someone up while I was still a mere child myself.
And did you follow their advice? Every single time? No exceptions, no
"just this once" type of thing?
> Oh well, maybe we shouldn't be meddling in Palin's family
> affairs--I mean, they have nothing to do with her judgment.
How does Palin's daughter's personal decision to have sex reflect on
Palin's judgment, exactly?
Trevor Zion Bauknight
<e204092d-ccbd-4333...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
I had about two days worth, as well. It was a small segment in the
health credit, which was mandatory for one semester.
--
Trev
Jim Gysin
lein sent the following on 9/2/2008 3:45 PM:
That's a very, very, very, very, very good analogy. I just may have to
steal it.
Kyle T. Jones
PM, or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
> How does Palin's daughter's personal decision to have sex reflect on
> Palin's judgment, exactly?
>
How does yer kid's decisions ever *not* reflect on you, Jim?
Some might argue that the actions and decisions made by yer children are
the very standard by which you *should* be judged.
Cheers.
Kyle T. Jones
>>> If one were to look at the worst out-of-wedlock birth rates in the
>>> country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
>>> Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
>>> in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
>>> country.
Cite? Source?
Too much to hope for?
>> How's about we look at teen pregnancy rates instead of "out of wedlock
>> birth rates"?
>>
>> Worst ten states:
>>
>> 1. Nevada
>> 2. Arizona
>> 3. Mississippi
>> 4. New Mexico
>> 5. Texas
>> 6. Florida
>> 7. California
>> 8. Georgia
>> 9. North Carolina
>> 10. Arkansas
>>
>> Wow... what a bunch of hotbeds of Democratic control.
>
> Source?
>
> I ask because the simple truth is that blue state kids are *much* more
> likely to have abortions,
How about you source/cite yers before asking him to source/cite his?
I have all this info, I just want to see how deep you and Tom dig before
I drop the *actual* top-five states in terms of per-capita unwed
pregnancy, and per-capita abortion rates.
Hell, I'll even include the cite(s).
Seriously. You guys just make this stuff up and hope either (a) no one
calls you on it, or (b) you happen to be luck (something about a broke
watch tickles the back of my mind), or what?
Cheers.
lein
wrote:
> In article
> <78d91cdd-66d1-4676-97e7-dc8f2b7ad...@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Well, let's start with the basics, who is responsible for teaching
values and sex education, the parents or the schools?
rich hammett
We had around 2 hours, too. But Alabama was controlled by
the Social Conservatives.
rich
rich hammett
That daughter was the RESULT of Palin doing exactly the
same thing 17 years ago.
Peach
> > What most conservatives I know have issue with...not the message but
> > the medium.
>
> > Peach
>
> then why are con-servatives so worried about telling everyone who they
> can fuck, who they can marry, what they can watch, what they can listen
> to, what the can read, etc, etc, etc...?
>
> Oh, the moral hypocrisy.-
I'm a conservative, and I'm not concerned with any of that. Whatever
floats your boat, baby.
Peach
rich hammett
> Jim Gysin, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 9/2/2008 4:27
> PM, or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>>>> If one were to look at the worst out-of-wedlock birth rates in the
>>>> country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
>>>> Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
>>>> in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
>>>> country.
> Cite? Source?
> Too much to hope for?
His main point he was trying to make indirectly is that
urban areas tend to be largely poor, largely black, to
have the highest unwed pregnancy rates, and tend to vote
Democrat. I think he wanted to avoid saying it so directly,
by praising those good white Utah mormons.
I'm not sure what he means by "highest levels of Democratic
control," though, I live in a predominantly Democratic county
and we get to choose the people we vote for.
rich
> Cheers.
rich hammett
Who is responsible for teaching math, the parents or the schools?
rich
Peach
The Vice President decides this stuff? Wow...color me surprised.
Peach
rich hammett
> The Vice President decides this stuff? Wow...color me surprised.
On what basis is she asking for the job, except for her
competence? I'm questioning her basic competence at
decision making.
Huck Kennedy
> Huck Kennedy sent the following on 9/2/2008 2:46 PM:
>
> > On Sep 2, 9:43 am, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
> > <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
> >>>> Do you have any children?
> >>> No, but I was a child once.
> >> And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
> >> school?
>
> >> REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
>
> > I don't know about Kardex, but my parents told me about condoms,
> > instead of just preaching abstinence, making it much less likely I'd
> > ever stupidly knock someone up while I was still a mere child myself.
>
> And did you follow their advice? Every single time? No exceptions, no
> "just this once" type of thing?
Talk about missing the point. If your parents and educators tell
you about condoms, at least there is a chance you'll use them.
> > Oh well, maybe we shouldn't be meddling in Palin's family
> > affairs--I mean, they have nothing to do with her judgment.
>
> How does Palin's daughter's personal decision to have sex reflect on
> Palin's judgment, exactly?
If she went along with "non-denominational Christian" propaganda,
then she only taught her children abstinence, and not condoms, which
is poor judgment. Assuming she even preached abstinence. I'm hoping
she at least did that much.
Huck Kennedy
To paraphrase well-known rsfc wingnut:
That's a very, very, very, very, very good point. I just may
have to
steal it.
Ralph Kennedy
Dan Bretta
> Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 2:37 pm, Peach <strawbe...@lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> >> On Sep 2, 12:24 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > I think the thread has evolved beyond the original, overly-simplistic
> >> > question. I don't know what they taught in the Palin household...only
> >> > what Sarah Palin has suggested ought to be taught to all children. I
> >> > can only assume that they're one and the same, and already having a
> >> > suspicion than it is the sort of thing that doesn't work, seeing it
> >> > borne out, so to speak, makes things pretty clear.
> >> But rarely is any way of instruction 100% foolproof... there is no
> >> perfection in life. And I know very few religious families that rely
> >> on the "preacher" to teach their children about sex. (In fact, I don't
> >> think I've heard a sermon about such a topic in many years... just
> >> more assumptions)
> > country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
> > Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
> > in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
> > country.
> > Muslims, Mormons etc. but he wants us to follow the example of those
> > who have the very highest out-of-wedlock birth rate. It is comprable
> > to the "Progressive" thread. Results aren't the issue, enforcing
> > control and a certain type of "morals" is.
>
> Are you a liar or a moran?
>
> There is a racial component, so DC leads the states in unmarried
> pregnancies, but all of the rest of the leaders are in the
> solid Reagan belt. Well, except for Delaware.
>
> Nice lie, though, it took me about half an hour to find the
> stats that showed you are a liar. Utah does have a low rate,
> but then Nevada next door has one of the highest, despite it
> being a fairly solidly republican state with a ton of Mormons.
>
You spent a half an hour of your life trying to prove Enright wrong?
Dan
TimV
"rich hammett" <bubba...@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:8uudnfHg2enxJCDV...@posted.hiwaay2...
Perhaps this biology thing is new to you, but daughters (and sons) are
almost always the result of people having sex.
If you are snarkily trying to say that Bristol was the result of premarital
sex, that was one long gestation period, during which another child was
born.
T
Jim Gysin
Kyle T. Jones sent the following on 9/2/2008 4:43 PM:
> Jim Gysin, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 9/2/2008 4:29
> PM, or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>
>
>> How does Palin's daughter's personal decision to have sex reflect on
>> Palin's judgment, exactly?
>>
> How does yer kid's decisions ever *not* reflect on you, Jim?
You're kidding, right? Are you suggesting that there are parents out
there who have found a way to turn off the "free will" genes, thereby
turning their adolescent offspring into drones?
*If* the kid's decisions reflect the parents' teaching, that's one
thing, and your point here would be valid *if* that were the case.
Because that would show that Palin was all in favor of her daughter
having sex and getting pregnant.
But--and I know this is crazy talk here--kids *have* been known to act
in ways that are contrary to their upbringing.
> Some might argue that the actions and decisions made by yer children are
> the very standard by which you *should* be judged.
"Some" would be idots, in that case. And definitely non-parents. Heck,
I know of families where the kids were raised by the same parents,
taught the same moral lessons, etc., and *still* turned around and did
drastically different things once they got a bit of freedom. Raising
kids is not like writing computer code, because sometimes kid code
takes, and sometimes it doesn't. And as long as the code is there and
functional, it's not the codewriter's fault when a kid reboots.
To put it another way, my parents gave me a foundation, but it was up to
me to build the house.
Jim Gysin
Trevor Zion Bauknight sent the following on 9/2/2008 4:29 PM:
Excellent rebuttal.
> Anyway, what's the alternative?
Before addressing alternatives, why not address his point?
Randolph M. Jones
total) in fifth grade, two weeks in eighth grade, then a couple weeks
more in the high school "health and driver education" class.
deem...@aol.com
> Tom Enright <freddy_ha...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:de5cc81a-cc42-45d8-bc2b-
> dee50832a...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 2, 2:37 pm, Peach <strawbe...@lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> >> On Sep 2, 12:24 pm, Trevor Zion Bauknight <t...@moodchanginggood.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > I think the thread has evolved beyond the original, overly-simplistic
> >> > question. I don't know what they taught in the Palin household...only
> >> > what Sarah Palin has suggested ought to be taught to all children. I
> >> > can only assume that they're one and the same, and already having a
> >> > suspicion than it is the sort of thing that doesn't work, seeing it
> >> > borne out, so to speak, makes things pretty clear.
>
> >> But rarely is any way of instruction 100% foolproof... there is no
> >> perfection in life. And I know very few religious families that rely
> >> on the "preacher" to teach their children about sex. (In fact, I don't
> >> think I've heard a sermon about such a topic in many years... just
> >> more assumptions)
>
> > If one were to look at the worst out-of-wedlock birth rates in the
> > country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
> > Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
> > in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
> > country.
>
> birth rates"?
>
> Worst ten states:
>
> 1. Nevada
> 2. Arizona
> 3. Mississippi
> 4. New Mexico
> 5. Texas
> 6. Florida
> 7. California
> 8. Georgia
> 9. North Carolina
> 10. Arkansas
>
> Wow... what a bunch of hotbeds of Democratic control.
>
> Aaron
You do realize that kids tend to get married earlier in many of
those states....which will effect teen pregnancy rates. I'd like to
see it broken down by age and marital status....if lots of married
18-19 yos get pregnant, it's different than 15-16 yos.
I really don't think there's that much difference in some
areas....contrary to some beliefs, there are quite a few blacks who
are religious and teach abstinence....they just don't trumpet it on
the news.
Chris Bellomy
There are many flavors of conservative. You don't seem to be
the Mullah Dobson variety.
cb
Glen Heiman
them, and have MSM/salon.org monitor there actions 24/7 your inept point may
make a little bit of sense.
Heiman
"Tonawanda Kardex" <tonawan...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d5299b94-ee72-43db...@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> Since McCain is so old, Sarah Palin would be one heartbeat away from
> the Presidency.
>
> http://perezhilton.com/2008-09-02-what-did-her-mom-do-wrong
>
> Do you want a parent who can't even manage her own child running this
> country?
>
> No, thanks.
jimbr...@yahoo.com
Yet you assume most of us around here are. Hmmm.
deem...@aol.com
I read a study done by Abilene Christian University that tracked
pregnancies and abortions in Abilene, Texas. The city is pretty evenly
divided between Methodists, Baptists, and Church of Christ. The three
groups had nearly equal pregnancy rates even though the Methodists
were more liberal than the Baptists who were more liberal than CoCs.
The main difference they found was that CoC girls were a bit over
twice as likely to have abortions than the Baptists who were a bit
more likely than the Methodists. The reason given was the CoC girls
were more afraid to tell their parents than the Baptists who
were...... So, at least in this case, the more conservative right to
lifers' kids were more likely to have abortions. I don't have any idea
how to find the cite.
Jim Gysin
Kyle T. Jones sent the following on 9/2/2008 4:59 PM:
> Jim Gysin, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 9/2/2008 4:27
> PM, or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>
>>>> If one were to look at the worst out-of-wedlock birth rates in the
>>>> country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
>>>> Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
>>>> in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
>>>> country.
>
> Cite? Source?
Those aren't my words. Nice snip job.
> Too much to hope for?
>
>>> How's about we look at teen pregnancy rates instead of "out of wedlock
>>> birth rates"?
>>>
>>> Worst ten states:
>>>
>>> 1. Nevada
>>> 2. Arizona
>>> 3. Mississippi
>>> 4. New Mexico
>>> 5. Texas
>>> 6. Florida
>>> 7. California
>>> 8. Georgia
>>> 9. North Carolina
>>> 10. Arkansas
>>>
>>> Wow... what a bunch of hotbeds of Democratic control.
>> Source?
>>
>> I ask because the simple truth is that blue state kids are *much* more
>> likely to have abortions,
>
> How about you source/cite yers before asking him to source/cite his?
Blue state kids are kids of blue state parents, who are *much* more
likely to be pro-choice. As a result, they are much more likely to
encourage their blue-state, unwed kids to have abortions. Or to accept
their kid's decision without a fuss if the kid makes the call on her own.
> I have all this info, I just want to see how deep you and Tom dig before
> I drop the *actual* top-five states in terms of per-capita unwed
> pregnancy, and per-capita abortion rates.
The numbers have nothing to do with my point above. It's entirely
possible that more red state kids get pregnant, but that doesn't change
the reality of what I just said. And that's why I asked for a cite.
> Hell, I'll even include the cite(s).
>
> Seriously. You guys just make this stuff up and hope either (a) no one
> calls you on it,
I'm not making anything up. I made no claims regarding actual numbers;
I merely pointed out what should be obvious to everyone with regard to
who is more likely to be pro-choice. In fact, in a part of my post that
you snipped (did I mention "nice snip job!" yet?), I said (with emphasis
added):
"So *IF* your numbers here are looking at pregnancies carried to term,
it really tells us little about the reality behind things."
> or (b) you happen to be luck (something about a broke
> watch tickles the back of my mind), or what?
Since I'm not making any claims regarding the numbers and am only asking
for a source for them, I don't need any luck.
Jim Gysin
Huck Kennedy sent the following on 9/2/2008 5:41 PM:
> On Sep 2, 2:29 pm, Jim Gysin <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Huck Kennedy sent the following on 9/2/2008 2:46 PM:
>>
>>> On Sep 2, 9:43 am, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>>> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>>>>>> Do you have any children?
>>>>> No, but I was a child once.
>>>> And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
>>>> school?
>>>> REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
>>> I don't know about Kardex, but my parents told me about condoms,
>>> instead of just preaching abstinence, making it much less likely I'd
>>> ever stupidly knock someone up while I was still a mere child myself.
>> And did you follow their advice? Every single time? No exceptions, no
>> "just this once" type of thing?
>
> Talk about missing the point. If your parents and educators tell
> you about condoms, at least there is a chance you'll use them.
And if parents tell you about their views on sexual morality, at least
there is a chance you'll follow them.
In other words, neither parental approach is a guarantee.
>>> Oh well, maybe we shouldn't be meddling in Palin's family
>>> affairs--I mean, they have nothing to do with her judgment.
>> How does Palin's daughter's personal decision to have sex reflect on
>> Palin's judgment, exactly?
>
> If she went along with "non-denominational Christian" propaganda,
> then she only taught her children abstinence, and not condoms, which
> is poor judgment. Assuming she even preached abstinence. I'm hoping
> she at least did that much.
Whether she taught about condoms is immaterial at this point, and even
if she had done so, then it only speaks to the fact that this was one
more area in which her daughter chose not to heed her advice.
But the voluntary choices of the daughter do not directly reflect the
quality of teaching of the parents, let alone the ability of a parent to
function well in a government role.
Jim Gysin
rich hammett sent the following on 9/2/2008 5:24 PM:
> Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
> olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Kyle T. Jones:
>> Jim Gysin, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 9/2/2008 4:27
>> PM, or thereabouts, when you let the following craziness loose on Usenet:
>
>>>>> If one were to look at the worst out-of-wedlock birth rates in the
>>>>> country those would be in areas that have the highest levels of
>>>>> Democratic control. Those areas which have the lowest rates would be
>>>>> in predominately socially conservative religious parts of the
>>>>> country.
>
>> Cite? Source?
>
>> Too much to hope for?
>
> His main point he was trying to make indirectly is that
> urban areas tend to be largely poor, largely black, to
> have the highest unwed pregnancy rates, and tend to vote
> Democrat. I think he wanted to avoid saying it so directly,
> by praising those good white Utah mormons.
>
> I'm not sure what he means by "highest levels of Democratic
> control," though, I live in a predominantly Democratic county
> and we get to choose the people we vote for.
It's bad enough that you're continuing the bad snip job that Kyle did,
but now you're making matters even worse by bring race into it. Race
that Tom did not include in his original post, and race that I certainly
didn't bring up in a paragraph that I didn't write.
But once again, either way, you manage to find racism where none exists.
You guys are *great* at that stuff! Well done once again!
Jim Gysin
rich hammett sent the following on 9/2/2008 5:08 PM:
> Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
> olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Jim Gysin:
>
>> Huck Kennedy sent the following on 9/2/2008 2:46 PM:
>>> On Sep 2, 9:43 am, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>>> <Iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sep 2, 11:42 am, Tonawanda Kardex <tonawandakar...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Sep 2, 12:33 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>>>>>> Do you have any children?
>>>>> No, but I was a child once.
>>>> And you never ONCE drank? Or had sex? Or drove fast? Or acted up in
>>>> school?
>>>>
>>>> REGARDLESS of what your parents said or did?
>>> I don't know about Kardex, but my parents told me about condoms,
>>> instead of just preaching abstinence, making it much less likely I'd
>>> ever stupidly knock someone up while I was still a mere child myself.
>
>> And did you follow their advice? Every single time? No exceptions, no
>> "just this once" type of thing?
>
>>> Oh well, maybe we shouldn't be meddling in Palin's family
>>> affairs--I mean, they have nothing to do with her judgment.
>
>> How does Palin's daughter's personal decision to have sex reflect on
>> Palin's judgment, exactly?
>
> That daughter was the RESULT of Palin doing exactly the
> same thing 17 years ago.
Wrong. The daughter in question was not even their firstborn.
Chris Bellomy
No I don't. I don't have you figured for that at all.
Look, I think a bunch of us here enjoy political/
partisan jostling. It's a way of stretching certain
intellectual muscles that otherwise don't stay sharp.
We rib each other, we troll a little, sometimes it
gets a little out of hand. I like the exercise of
trying to get folks to think about issues a different
way than they have before, though sometimes doing that
requires a bit of a verbal slap to the face to shock
readers out of their prior frames of reference.
Speaking for myself only, it's not personal. My list
of people in rsfc I truly have genuine irritation with
is much shorter than you'd probably guess. Certainly
*you* aren't on it. I disagree with you a bunch, but
that's ok, I do with most people. That's the price I
pay for being opinionated. I realize that.
I'm not really all that abrasive. I just play an
abrasive idot on the Internets.
cb
Tom Enright
> On Sep 2, 2:43 pm, "Kyle T. Jones" <KBf...@realdomain.net> wrote:
>
> > Jim Gysin, my dear, dear friend, there was this time, oh, 9/2/2008 4:29
> > > How does Palin's daughter's personal decision to have sex reflect on
> > > Palin's judgment, exactly?
> > How does yer kid's decisions ever *not* reflect on you, Jim?
> >
> > Some might argue that the actions and decisions made by yer children are
> > the very standard by which you *should* be judged.
> To paraphrase well-known rsfc wingnut:
>
> That's a very, very, very, very, very good point. I just may
> have to
> steal it.
At look at all those dumn right-wingers. All this time they were
going after Obama's decision to hang with racist, nut-bag, anti-
American preachers and terrorists when all the time the actions of the
children are really the most important associations.
-Tom Enright