Yet another boring observation
Mercellus Bohren
My wife and I went to the Greek Festival at the Greek Orthodox Church
around the corner on Saturday. It was a pretty good event. They had
carnival rides and games for the kids and a Greek lager beer (Mythos)
that was tasty. My wife's cousin, wife, and little boy came along with
us.
This kid is one of the most annoying little rug rats I have ever been
around and it's not just me, because even his own parents hate to take
him anywhere.
Whenever we go to their house, he hangs in his room, watching his
plasma television and all his DVDs of Disney movies. Every once in
awhile he screams for Cheetos or some other snack food he probably
shouldn't be eating. I think he's about five years old. I'm not sure
what "normal" is for this kid.
He's either either in 1) catatonic Disney movie land, 2) screaming,
crying wanting something, or 3) screaming, laughing at something that
he's found entertaining for the five seconds until he goes back to
numbers 1) or 2).
I know that I joke around about hating kids; I don't really. But, this
kid; I wonder about kids like this.
Do they turn out okay?
I'm half expecting to get the "sobbing to Uncle Mercellus" phone calls
asking to get bailed out of jail or something like that in about 12-15
years.
Also, at the carnival, there was no chance of not winning a little
stuffed animal. If you bought enough tickets to play, you won
something.
Now, these were little kids and all, but, where's the sense of
accomplishment?
deem...@aol.com
You misplet entitlement.
Tom Enright
Mercellus Bohren, well, I didn't know you wanted to get involved with
the discussion, Mr. Helper:
<snip>
> I know that I joke around about hating kids; I don't really. But, this
> kid; I wonder about kids like this.
>
> Do they turn out okay?
>
> I'm half expecting to get the "sobbing to Uncle Mercellus" phone calls
> asking to get bailed out of jail or something like that in about 12-15
> years.
>
> Also, at the carnival, there was no chance of not winning a little
> stuffed animal. If you bought enough tickets to play, you won
> something.
>
> Now, these were little kids and all, but, where's the sense of
> accomplishment?
Not exactly an answer to your question, but last night I experienced
a good example of how one's behaviour as a child is a good predictor
of their future life.
My folks went to the wedding of a friend of theirs in Michigan. This
woman is 78 years old. At the wedding my mom caught-up on a lot
of what happened to the folks in the old neighborhood.
The most troublesome family in the sub had four kids. As Adults:
Child #1: Died in mysterious circumstances at 38.
Child #2: Married a dentist.
Child #3: Living in a compound with eight kids in the wilderness
of Idaho. Stay-tuned for the ATF raid.
Child #4: In prison.
-Tom Enribht
Edward M. Kennedy
>> Also, at the carnival, there was no chance of not winning a little
>> stuffed animal. If you bought enough tickets to play, you won
>> something.
>>
>> Now, these were little kids and all, but, where's the sense of
>> accomplishment?
>
> You misplet entitlement.
Back in my day, I had to do chores to get the money to
buy the tickets.
I actually started doing yard work in fifth grade, soon
graduating to cutting lawns. On snow days I shoveled walks
and driveways with a friend. We'd clear about $100 each
back in the 70's. It was really cool to be able to just
go buy stuff instead of hearing, "We can't afford that."
or "Wait till Christmas." (And later, "That's illegal")
--Tedward
Tony Rice
>
> Child #1: Died in mysterious circumstances at 38.
> Child #2: Married a dentist.
> Child #3: Living in a compound with eight kids in the wilderness
> of Idaho. Stay-tuned for the ATF raid.
> Child #4: In prison.
Thinking of the families I knew growing up where the kids got whatever they
want, last I heard
Family A, Child #1: dead
Family A, Child #2: in prison
Family B, Child #1: makes $2.5 million per year pitching for the Mets.
Family C, Child #1: office manager for heart surgeon
Family C, Child #2, plays drums in a bar band since leaving the army.
Emperor Wonko the Magnificent
Mercellus Bohren wrote:
> My wife and I went to the Greek Festival at the Greek Orthodox Church
> around the corner on Saturday. It was a pretty good event. They had
> carnival rides and games for the kids and a Greek lager beer (Mythos)
> that was tasty. My wife's cousin, wife, and little boy came along with
> us.
>
> This kid is one of the most annoying little rug rats I have ever been
> around and it's not just me, because even his own parents hate to take
> him anywhere.
>
> Whenever we go to their house, he hangs in his room, watching his
> plasma television and all his DVDs of Disney movies. Every once in
> awhile he screams for Cheetos or some other snack food he probably
> shouldn't be eating. I think he's about five years old. I'm not sure
> what "normal" is for this kid.
>
<\start preachy self-righteous parent mode>
No kid that age should have a TV in their room. Our five year old
daughter can get her ass out in the den and interact with her family.
My wild ass guess is that this is symptomatic of the problem. His
parents want the TV to keep him occupied, and thus not have to deal
with him. Being civilized is not a natural state of being. It's
learned, hopefully from the parents.
<\end preachy self-righteous parent mode>
Doug
Mercellus Bohren
Sweet.
Back in my day, I started working for my dad's construction company
during the summers when I was 13. I was 'off the books' then, and also
I don't believe my dad thought that child labor laws applied to his
kid. When I reached legal working age, I started working on one of his
government projects and I was paid like other unskilled labor at the
going government rate for construction unskilled labor (which, at the
time, was akin to union wage rates). I think I got like, 7 dollars an
hour. This was in the mid 70s.
My mother mentioned the fact that I was making more money than my
sister's new husband, who had an advanced degree in Sociology. I was
raking it in for a kid. When all my buddies got old enough to enter the
workforce, my dad put them to work as painters helpers, concrete
helpers, etc. at the base.
We were all making a killing for our time and ended up smoking dope and
playing poker on Friday and Saturday nights. Someone usually walked
away with most everyone's pay. Sometimes it was me. That was some
serious dough. I mean, I think we were having 200-500 dollar pots, that
someone had to match occasionally. I always felt kind of sorry for the
kids that were playing, but were working as lifeguards and such. They
got screwed.
My dad put the kibosh on the whole thing when his administrative
assistant's kid lost about 300 dollars one night and told on us.
I worked construction for my dad until he sold the business and retired
one year after having his first heart attack, when I was a Junior in
college. I miss it some days. There was a camaraderie that I find
lacking in the career path I've chosen since graduating from school.
I called my dad one time from school to check in on him when he started
having heart trouble. I go "hey, how're you doing?" I guess he had had
too much to drink because he didn't recognize my voice right off and
starts yelling into the phone "WHERE WERE YOU TODAY YOU FUCKIN
ASSHOLE??? I'm like, good grief, I'd never heard my dad talk like that
before. I go "hey, it's me, Tob^H^H^H^mercellus."
He goes "Oh...hehe...I thought you were the concrete sub. He didn't
show up today and we're about two weeks late on this 10 million dollar
job...it's costing me a fortune."
"Wow, dad, sorry to hear it."
"We'll work it out...how're you doing?"
etc. Poor guy, he owned those projects until the government signed
off. And if you've ever had to have the Corp. of Engineers up your arse
with inspections every day, you have no idea about his level of
frustration. I can't imagine the pressure.
TIA.
Thanks for listening.
Mercellus Bohren
I really like the parents, but, I think they may be pretty lazy with
this kid. They aren't readers and I don't see many books around the
house. The kid does go to some private pre-school and he's doing some
basic foreign language stuff and other crap that is pretty advanced (I
guess), so maybe he's got some sort of brane in ther. They don't yammer
on and on about the fact that he's like all other children these days;
that is, gifted---so maybe he'll turn out all right.
miand...@students.mcg.edu
Mercellus Bohren wrote:
> My wife and I went to the Greek Festival at the Greek Orthodox Church
> around the corner on Saturday. It was a pretty good event. They had
> carnival rides and games for the kids and a Greek lager beer (Mythos)
> that was tasty. My wife's cousin, wife, and little boy came along with
> us.
>
> This kid is one of the most annoying little rug rats I have ever been
> around and it's not just me, because even his own parents hate to take
> him anywhere.
>
> Whenever we go to their house, he hangs in his room, watching his
> plasma television and all his DVDs of Disney movies.
what's the matter with this? He's not bothering the adults....he is
watching age appropriate movies.
Every once in
> awhile he screams for Cheetos or some other snack food he probably
> shouldn't be eating.
cheetos aren't good for kids only in the sense that if you don't really
watch the dental health it could lead to increased dental caries in
children at that age. Other than that they really aren't a problem.
I think he's about five years old. I'm not sure
> what "normal" is for this kid.
he seems normal to me. If anything a good kid....they need to work on
the whole shouting "give me cheetos" bit, but other than that he seems
ok.
>
> He's either either in 1) catatonic Disney movie land, 2) screaming,
> crying wanting something, or 3) screaming, laughing at something that
> he's found entertaining for the five seconds until he goes back to
> numbers 1) or 2).
#1 is a good state for a kid. #2 and #3 would annoy me.
>
> I know that I joke around about hating kids; I don't really. But, this
> kid; I wonder about kids like this.
>
> Do they turn out okay?
yeah most of them do.
>
> I'm half expecting to get the "sobbing to Uncle Mercellus" phone calls
> asking to get bailed out of jail or something like that in about 12-15
> years.
>
> Also, at the carnival, there was no chance of not winning a little
> stuffed animal. If you bought enough tickets to play, you won
> something.
>
> Now, these were little kids and all, but, where's the sense of
> accomplishment?
oh please. If I had written your post there would be 60 "how dare you
say this about 5 yo's" bit. Who cares if kids that age get a
meaningless prize at the carnival or fair or whatever.......c'mon they
are kids.
Jay Furr
@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu:
You're descended from Mormons, right? Was the "and later" when you wanted
to buy your second wife?
--
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no god.
It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson
"There's hits in chicken." -- Wade Boggs
WiNK
"Mercellus Bohren" <merce...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1148328501.1...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Maybe....but Doug has a good point. If they are lazy parents, that explains
the TV in the room. Anything to placate him.... probably done at other
times as well. A 5 -year-old can't learn to socialize if he's in front of
the boob tube that long.... it's the easier, softer way, but it will bite
them in the butt eventually.
Peach
--
"The Bailey Quarters of RSFC"
"Marriage....fun? Fiddle-dee-dee. Fun for men you mean."
Mercellus Bohren
He's on only-child so wouldn't he learn to socialize with his peers at
school? And, what does socialization have to do with branes anyway?
Paris Hilton probably has highly evolved social skills.
deem...@aol.com
This last is the only sensible part of your post.
Mercellus Bohren
My primary question was "Do they turn out okay?" You seem to think he
will be fine and you're a smart dude, a doctor-to-be, so that's pretty
comforting, since I care about my family members, no matter how
annoying they may be, to me.
I do sense we're setting children up for a big letdown by not providing
enough real-world, results-oriented, competitive situations in early
life. I truly believe the reasons this country is starting to show
weakness as a market-driven democracy is that 1) many young people want
to be like black ciminals and pseudo-criminals, and 2) we have
dumbed-down the competitive nature of early life so much that a) most
kids are gifted and, 2) they all get a prize, no matter how dumb or
slow.
What's the point for the truly gifted in an egalitarian environment
where "everyone's a winner?" The truly gifted get bored with the slow
ones and then they drift off and then everyone has to pay for the fact
that we are a below-average, instant-gratification-seeking, nation of
formerly gifted young people.
miand...@students.mcg.edu
Mercellus Bohren wrote:
>
> My primary question was "Do they turn out okay?" You seem to think he
> will be fine and you're a smart dude, a doctor-to-be, so that's pretty
> comforting, since I care about my family members, no matter how
> annoying they may be, to me.
> I do sense we're setting children up for a big letdown by not providing
> enough real-world, results-oriented, competitive situations in early
> life.
oh I completely disagree. For a 5 yo there is absolutely no reason for
such situations.......
I truly believe the reasons this country is starting to show
> weakness as a market-driven democracy is that 1) many young people want
> to be like black ciminals and pseudo-criminals, and 2) we have
> dumbed-down the competitive nature of early life so much that a) most
> kids are gifted and, 2) they all get a prize, no matter how dumb or
> slow.
I think the key question here is at what level.....with our high school
kids we certainly do set "prizes". So the "prize" they get for winning
and competing or whatever term you want to use at the elementary and
middle school levels is to hopefully give them the tools to compete
when they are actually 14 years old and it's time to really compete.
Mercellus Bohren
> Mercellus Bohren wrote:
> >
> > My primary question was "Do they turn out okay?" You seem to think he
> > will be fine and you're a smart dude, a doctor-to-be, so that's pretty
> > comforting, since I care about my family members, no matter how
> > annoying they may be, to me.
> > I do sense we're setting children up for a big letdown by not providing
> > enough real-world, results-oriented, competitive situations in early
> > life.
>
> oh I completely disagree. For a 5 yo there is absolutely no reason for
> such situations.......
>
For 5 year olds, I would agree, but I was moving beyond the specifics
of this particular situation into the abstraction of just kids in
general. (There were older kids at this carnival.) It seems to me that
at the age that I was getting assessed for abilities at a young age is
not happening anymore. That's not to say that the new way is not
better, it's just that it doesn't seem better in my opinion.
>
> I truly believe the reasons this country is starting to show
> > weakness as a market-driven democracy is that 1) many young people want
> > to be like black ciminals and pseudo-criminals, and 2) we have
> > dumbed-down the competitive nature of early life so much that a) most
> > kids are gifted and, 2) they all get a prize, no matter how dumb or
> > slow.
>
>
> I think the key question here is at what level.....with our high school
> kids we certainly do set "prizes". So the "prize" they get for winning
> and competing or whatever term you want to use at the elementary and
> middle school levels is to hopefully give them the tools to compete
> when they are actually 14 years old and it's time to really compete.
Is this true everywhere? I seem to see a lot of "here's an award for
just showing up every day" and things like that, even at the high
school level. Maybe I've been watching too much television, because I
certainly have no real-world experience. Other than this 5-year old, my
sister's kids are in college, etc.
WiNK
Uh....I suppose. But let's put it this way. My daughter is an only
child.... she learned how to socialize by playing with other kids and by
interacting with her Mom and Grandmother. If a kid hasn't learned how to
socialize by 5-years (and you said he was in preschool, right?), then he is
behind. (At least be sociable--you made it sound like he didn't know how to
communicate with people because he spent so much time in his room. He
doesn't know how to interact with *humans.*)
Oh, and socialization doesn't have anything to do with brains, but there is
nothing worse than a genius who is a freak. My sister-in-law raves about
her geenyus daughter, but at 17 years of age, she can't carry on an
intelligent conversation with a grown-up. A geenyus with social skills will
rule the world someday. ;-)
Mercellus Bohren
Precocious children who carry on adult conversations are also annoying.
I feel sorry for them, having missed being a little kid. But, to the
point, Scarlett, and putting aside the fact that IDGAD, I also donut
know nuthin 'bout no chillrens.
I hope the kid turns out okay. He's got parents who love him, so, maybe
everything will turn out all right. If not, I'll hop on a plane and
come bail him out of jail a couple of times. I feel like I owe it to
someone, since my poor dad had to do it a couple of times.
Jaybyrd
Mercellus Bohren wrote:
> My wife and I went to the Greek Festival at the Greek Orthodox Church
> around the corner on Saturday. It was a pretty good event. They had
> carnival rides and games for the kids and a Greek lager beer (Mythos)
> that was tasty. My wife's cousin, wife, and little boy came along with
> us.
>
> This kid is one of the most annoying little rug rats I have ever been
> around and it's not just me, because even his own parents hate to take
> him anywhere.
>
this kid sounds like Dudley Dursley
Mercellus Bohren
More like a young DRACO MALFOY.
Jim Bush
<merce...@yahoo.com>, but he couldn't help me either:
>miander...@students.mcg.edu wrote:
>> Mercellus Bohren wrote:
>> >
>> > My primary question was "Do they turn out okay?" You seem to think he
>> > will be fine and you're a smart dude, a doctor-to-be, so that's pretty
>> > comforting, since I care about my family members, no matter how
>> > annoying they may be, to me.
>> > I do sense we're setting children up for a big letdown by not providing
>> > enough real-world, results-oriented, competitive situations in early
>> > life.
>>
>> oh I completely disagree. For a 5 yo there is absolutely no reason for
>> such situations.......
>>
>
>For 5 year olds, I would agree, but I was moving beyond the specifics
>of this particular situation into the abstraction of just kids in
>general. (There were older kids at this carnival.) It seems to me that
>at the age that I was getting assessed for abilities at a young age is
>not happening anymore. That's not to say that the new way is not
>better, it's just that it doesn't seem better in my opinion.
>
>>
>> I truly believe the reasons this country is starting to show
>> > weakness as a market-driven democracy is that 1) many young people want
>> > to be like black ciminals and pseudo-criminals, and 2) we have
>> > dumbed-down the competitive nature of early life so much that a) most
>> > kids are gifted and, 2) they all get a prize, no matter how dumb or
>> > slow.
I disagree with #2.
We've actually accelerated the competitive nature of early life in
some ways. Around here, if you're not on the high-level competitive
soccer/basketball/baseball/swimming treadmill by age 8 or 9, your
eventual chances of competing for your high school are just about
zero. From the dim memories of my mid-70s youth, we didn't even
start to play organized sports until about age ten. And you know
what? These days, the "everyone gets a trophy" stuff stops right
about age 10/11. (I do have some little "Spring 2006" pins to pass
out to my soccer team. But they're small.)
And around here, at least, not everyone is gifted. My 11-year-old is
really pretty smart in a couple of areas, but it wasn't enough to get
him in an advanced program. OTOH, I don't remember doing any algebra
in fifth grade, and his entire class has been through the basics of
"solving for x" in a simple problem.
>>
>>
>> I think the key question here is at what level.....with our high school
>> kids we certainly do set "prizes". So the "prize" they get for winning
>> and competing or whatever term you want to use at the elementary and
>> middle school levels is to hopefully give them the tools to compete
>> when they are actually 14 years old and it's time to really compete.
>
>Is this true everywhere? I seem to see a lot of "here's an award for
>just showing up every day" and things like that, even at the high
>school level. Maybe I've been watching too much television, because I
>certainly have no real-world experience. Other than this 5-year old, my
>sister's kids are in college, etc.
I could start a nice rant on why schools are forced to spend time on
stuff like self-esteem (namely, parents too busy working to pay for
the 3,000 square foot house, the Mercedes, and all those plasma TVs to
spend real time with their kids.) but I won't. I could go on another
rant about how our society glorifies the getting of things at the
expense of everything else, but I won't do that, either.
FWIW, my 7-year-old was mad when she came home from school today. It
was "awards day", and she didn't get one.
Jim B.
Mercellus Bohren
Damb, your kid must be a real looser.
(dude, just joking)
Thanks for the info. As per the usual, in between the crap, there is
some interesting and worthwhile information posted so I can be better
edumacated on the current reality.
WiNK
> Precocious children who carry on adult conversations are also annoying.
> I feel sorry for them, having missed being a little kid.
IAWTP. Balance is everything.... it's all about moderation. :-)
But, to the
> point, Scarlett, and putting aside the fact that IDGAD, I also donut
> know nuthin 'bout no chillrens.
It's okay, Prissy..... at least you're open to listening. ;-)
>
> I hope the kid turns out okay. He's got parents who love him, so, maybe
> everything will turn out all right. If not, I'll hop on a plane and
> come bail him out of jail a couple of times. I feel like I owe it to
> someone, since my poor dad had to do it a couple of times.
>
Love is important.... but so is hard work. It's like this 18 year project
that you have....so much goes into it. Too bad you don't live closer--you
seem to have a good perspective that he could probably benefit from.
Jon Enslin
Mercellus Bohren wrote:
> miander...@students.mcg.edu wrote:
> > Mercellus Bohren wrote:
> > >
> > > My primary question was "Do they turn out okay?" You seem to think he
> > > will be fine and you're a smart dude, a doctor-to-be, so that's pretty
> > > comforting, since I care about my family members, no matter how
> > > annoying they may be, to me.
> > > I do sense we're setting children up for a big letdown by not providing
> > > enough real-world, results-oriented, competitive situations in early
> > > life.
> >
> > oh I completely disagree. For a 5 yo there is absolutely no reason for
> > such situations.......
> >
>
> For 5 year olds, I would agree, but I was moving beyond the specifics
> of this particular situation into the abstraction of just kids in
> general. (There were older kids at this carnival.) It seems to me that
> at the age that I was getting assessed for abilities at a young age is
> not happening anymore. That's not to say that the new way is not
> better, it's just that it doesn't seem better in my opinion.
I actually disagree with this. My recollection of my childhood leads
me to believe that kids are being assessed earlier and earlier when it
comes to academic success. In fact, I was looking at my stressed out
high school freshman and thinking "boy does he need a nice summer
vacation" just this morning. Kids need time to be kids.
Jon
Jon Enslin
miand...@students.mcg.edu wrote:
> Mercellus Bohren wrote:
> > My wife and I went to the Greek Festival at the Greek Orthodox Church
> > around the corner on Saturday. It was a pretty good event. They had
> > carnival rides and games for the kids and a Greek lager beer (Mythos)
> > that was tasty. My wife's cousin, wife, and little boy came along with
> > us.
> >
> > This kid is one of the most annoying little rug rats I have ever been
> > around and it's not just me, because even his own parents hate to take
> > him anywhere.
> >
> > Whenever we go to their house, he hangs in his room, watching his
> > plasma television and all his DVDs of Disney movies.
>
> what's the matter with this? He's not bothering the adults....he is
> watching age appropriate movies.
It's not bad occasionally. It is bad if it is a regular occurance.
5yos should be running around outside, "reading" books, playing games
as well as watching Disney movies in a catatonic state.
Jon
Ike
Yah- but he's an asshole, so that cancels the first part out.
Jay Furr
news:tb25725ftor25gji8...@4ax.com:
> And around here, at least, not everyone is gifted. My 11-year-old is
> really pretty smart in a couple of areas, but it wasn't enough to get
> him in an advanced program. OTOH, I don't remember doing any algebra
> in fifth grade, and his entire class has been through the basics of
> "solving for x" in a simple problem.
Some school systems don't *want* there to be any gifted students, and any
signs of being bright are generally written off as "discipline problems"
instead. When I was a kid, no one other than my parents much thought I
was "gifted". I didn't exactly behave in class, didn't ever want to do
schoolwork, etc., etc. Of course, the fact that I could already read at
a third grade level by the time I left kindergarten and was a major
disruption to my early elementary school classes probably didn't incline
teachers any more charitably to me.
The school administrators and teachers didn't *want* gifted kids in the
Montgomery County, Virginia school system -- it was too much work for the
teachers to have to teach at the level of the illiterate redneck
population *and* take into account that they had the kids of physics
professors and so on in the same class, so they handled it by pretending
we didn't exist.
Then in seventh grade they gave all the kids the Otis-Lennon Mental
Ability Test, an IQ test of some sort, with the goal of determining which
kids should take algebra in 8th grade, which should take pre-algebra, and
which kids should be shunted off to "business math" with the goal of
teaching them how to balance their checkbook since most of them were
probably going to drop out by 10th grade anyway. I didn't find out
until after I graduated high school that there was sort of a collective
"oh, FUCK" on the part of my guidance counselors and teachers after the
kid who got the perfect score turned out to be, well, me.
Yeah, my school system did an excellent job of recognizing and fostering
the growth of the smart kids.
Jim Bush
<jfurr-...@nospam-furrs.org>, but he couldn't help me either:
You shoulda made your parents move. Or wait another decade or two to
procreate.
How long ago was this? My kids are in the same school district in
which I was edumacated. 30 years ago, they didn't even try to
identify "gifted" students until about 8th grade. Now they are doing
it as early as 3rd grade. There is a teacher in my kids' school who's
sole job is providing enrichment-type activities for the reely smrat
kids.
Times change. Even in Kansas.
Jim B.
Jim Bush
Nah, they just aren't giving awards for the things she's really good
at - advanced diva-style behavior and manipulating 7-year-old boys.
This girl has "future cheerleader" written all over her. 2011-2016
will be interesting years in my house.
>
>(dude, just joking)
>
>Thanks for the info. As per the usual, in between the crap, there is
>some interesting and worthwhile information posted so I can be better
>edumacated on the current reality.
Sometimes I wonder if any of those media pundits have actually raised
a child in the last 10-15 years. Perceptions change a lot slower than
reality.
Jim B.
Jay Furr
>>Yeah, my school system did an excellent job of recognizing and fostering
>>the growth of the smart kids.
>
> You shoulda made your parents move. Or wait another decade or two to
> procreate.
>
> How long ago was this? My kids are in the same school district in
> which I was edumacated. 30 years ago, they didn't even try to
> identify "gifted" students until about 8th grade. Now they are doing
> it as early as 3rd grade. There is a teacher in my kids' school who's
> sole job is providing enrichment-type activities for the reely smrat
> kids.
>
> Times change. Even in Kansas.
I started first grade in, oh, 1973.
FWIW, my kid brother had it worse. His teachers were so upset about having
a gifted kid in the class that they put him off in a corner, by himself,
and gave him no work at all to do since he could already read far beyond
the level the other kids were capable of doing. My parents thought
seriously about suing the school system when they found out, at the end of
third grade, that he'd spent much of the year in what amounted to solitary
confinement. They transferred him to the local private elementary school
for grades 4 and 5 instead. It turns out that that was where the parents
of our town's bright kids had started sending 'em -- word had gotten around
about the reception a bright kid would get in the public schools.
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
>
> Mercellus Bohren wrote:
>> My wife and I went to the Greek Festival at the Greek Orthodox Church
>> around the corner on Saturday. It was a pretty good event. They had
>> carnival rides and games for the kids and a Greek lager beer (Mythos)
>> that was tasty. My wife's cousin, wife, and little boy came along with
>> us.
>>
>> This kid is one of the most annoying little rug rats I have ever been
>> around and it's not just me, because even his own parents hate to take
>> him anywhere.
>>
>> Whenever we go to their house, he hangs in his room, watching his
>> plasma television and all his DVDs of Disney movies. Every once in
>> awhile he screams for Cheetos or some other snack food he probably
>> shouldn't be eating. I think he's about five years old. I'm not sure
>> what "normal" is for this kid.
>>
>
> <\start preachy self-righteous parent mode>
>
> No kid that age should have a TV in their room. Our five year old
> daughter can get her ass out in the den and interact with her family.
No one should have a TV in their room - it just ain't healthy.
> My wild ass guess is that this is symptomatic of the problem. His
> parents want the TV to keep him occupied, and thus not have to deal
> with him. Being civilized is not a natural state of being. It's
> learned, hopefully from the parents.
>
> <\end preachy self-righteous parent mode>
You're right you know.
--
Aaron
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
This one always kind of scares me. I'm personally very happy that my 3yo
finally started showing interest in learning to read.
> The kid does go to some private pre-school and he's doing some
> basic foreign language stuff and other crap that is pretty advanced (I
> guess), so maybe he's got some sort of brane in ther. They don't yammer
> on and on about the fact that he's like all other children these days;
> that is, gifted---so maybe he'll turn out all right.
We can hope.
--
Aaron
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
> Jim Bush <jim...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:tb25725ftor25gji8...@4ax.com:
>
>> And around here, at least, not everyone is gifted. My 11-year-old is
>> really pretty smart in a couple of areas, but it wasn't enough to get
>> him in an advanced program. OTOH, I don't remember doing any algebra
>> in fifth grade, and his entire class has been through the basics of
>> "solving for x" in a simple problem.
>
> Some school systems don't *want* there to be any gifted students, and any
> signs of being bright are generally written off as "discipline problems"
> instead. When I was a kid, no one other than my parents much thought I
> was "gifted". I didn't exactly behave in class, didn't ever want to do
> schoolwork, etc., etc. Of course, the fact that I could already read at
> a third grade level by the time I left kindergarten and was a major
> disruption to my early elementary school classes probably didn't incline
> teachers any more charitably to me.
You sound like me... up until I was tested to be reading at 12+ grade level
in 3rd grade. At that point teachers seemed to start listening to my
parents, who based on things like the fact that I could read at 3yo were
pretty sure I wasn't a dumbass. Eventually the truth came out - I'm a really
smart dumbass.
> Yeah, my school system did an excellent job of recognizing and fostering
> the growth of the smart kids.
My school system was pretty bad in the early grades (possibly due to a
preponderance of early elementary teachers that ranged in age from Moses to
dinosaur) but seemed to do a rather good job once they started testing and
paying attention to some actual measurables.
--
Aaron
Jay Furr
news:iT361vf...@redshark.goodshow.net:
>> Some school systems don't *want* there to be any gifted students, and
>> any signs of being bright are generally written off as "discipline
>> problems" instead. When I was a kid, no one other than my parents
>> much thought I was "gifted". I didn't exactly behave in class,
>> didn't ever want to do schoolwork, etc., etc. Of course, the fact
>> that I could already read at a third grade level by the time I left
>> kindergarten and was a major disruption to my early elementary school
>> classes probably didn't incline teachers any more charitably to me.
>
> You sound like me... up until I was tested to be reading at 12+ grade
> level in 3rd grade. At that point teachers seemed to start listening
> to my parents, who based on things like the fact that I could read at
> 3yo were pretty sure I wasn't a dumbass. Eventually the truth came out
> - I'm a really smart dumbass.
Yep.
Same here.
I apparently taught myself to read when I was 3. My father would read a
story book to me when he came home from work and then let me run off with
it, and one day while my mom was tending to newborn baby brother she saw me
thoughtfully turning the pages of a book and asked me to read it to her --
and I could.
Boy, did my kindergarten teacher hate me.
Mercellus Bohren
I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the posters in this chatroom
probably had highly developed verbal skills at a young age.
I invented a pretty decent foreign language when I was 6.
Do I get an award now?
Jay Furr
> I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the posters in this chatroom
> probably had highly developed verbal skills at a young age.
>
> I invented a pretty decent foreign language when I was 6.
>
> Do I get an award now?
Sure. Would you like to be the May Queen? We haven't elected a May Queen
yet this year.
Mercellus Bohren
Do I get any special prizes?
Jay Furr
> Jay Furr wrote:
>> "Mercellus Bohren" <merce...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:1148400029.9...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the posters in this
>> > chatroom probably had highly developed verbal skills at a young
>> > age.
>> >
>> > I invented a pretty decent foreign language when I was 6.
>> >
>> > Do I get an award now?
>>
>> Sure. Would you like to be the May Queen? We haven't elected a May
>> Queen yet this year.
>>
>
> Do I get any special prizes?
You get a cool tiara to wear, provided you can persuade Orangedood to let
go of it. And you there's a sexy garter for your leg -- I think Jon
Russell has that, but I'm sure he'd be willing to give it back. mutt's got
the ball gown.
Mercellus Bohren
What a load of crap.
I was hoping for a gift certificate to Dairy Queen.
The cool tiara sounds nice though, so, OKAY I ACCEPT!
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
> <abor...@redshark.goodshow.net> wrote in
> news:iT361vf...@redshark.goodshow.net:
>
>>> Some school systems don't *want* there to be any gifted students, and
>>> any signs of being bright are generally written off as "discipline
>>> problems" instead. When I was a kid, no one other than my parents
>>> much thought I was "gifted". I didn't exactly behave in class,
>>> didn't ever want to do schoolwork, etc., etc. Of course, the fact
>>> that I could already read at a third grade level by the time I left
>>> kindergarten and was a major disruption to my early elementary school
>>> classes probably didn't incline teachers any more charitably to me.
>>
>> You sound like me... up until I was tested to be reading at 12+ grade
>> level in 3rd grade. At that point teachers seemed to start listening
>> to my parents, who based on things like the fact that I could read at
>> 3yo were pretty sure I wasn't a dumbass. Eventually the truth came out
>> - I'm a really smart dumbass.
>
> Yep.
>
> Same here.
>
> I apparently taught myself to read when I was 3. My father would read a
> story book to me when he came home from work and then let me run off with
> it, and one day while my mom was tending to newborn baby brother she saw me
> thoughtfully turning the pages of a book and asked me to read it to her --
> and I could.
>
> Boy, did my kindergarten teacher hate me.
That sounds pretty familiar... and I flunked kindergarten.
--
Aaron
Mike Dahmus
> <abor...@redshark.goodshow.net> wrote in
> news:iT361vf...@redshark.goodshow.net:
>
>>> Some school systems don't *want* there to be any gifted students, and
>>> any signs of being bright are generally written off as "discipline
>>> problems" instead. When I was a kid, no one other than my parents
>>> much thought I was "gifted". I didn't exactly behave in class,
>>> didn't ever want to do schoolwork, etc., etc. Of course, the fact
>>> that I could already read at a third grade level by the time I left
>>> kindergarten and was a major disruption to my early elementary school
>>> classes probably didn't incline teachers any more charitably to me.
>> You sound like me... up until I was tested to be reading at 12+ grade
>> level in 3rd grade. At that point teachers seemed to start listening
>> to my parents, who based on things like the fact that I could read at
>> 3yo were pretty sure I wasn't a dumbass. Eventually the truth came out
>> - I'm a really smart dumbass.
>
> Yep.
>
> Same here.
>
> I apparently taught myself to read when I was 3. My father would read a
> story book to me when he came home from work and then let me run off with
> it, and one day while my mom was tending to newborn baby brother she saw me
> thoughtfully turning the pages of a book and asked me to read it to her --
> and I could.
>
> Boy, did my kindergarten teacher hate me.
Apparently we're all the same guy. I got kicked out of kindergarten
after 2 weeks and had to go on to the 1st grade. As a result, today,
when I attempt to finger-paint, injury usually results.
--
Mike Dahmus
http://mdahmus.monkeysystems.com/blog/
Ralph Kennedy
>
> I apparently taught myself to read when I was 3. My father would read a
> story book to me when he came home from work and then let me run off with
> it, and one day while my mom was tending to newborn baby brother she saw me
> thoughtfully turning the pages of a book and asked me to read it to her --
> and I could.
>
> Boy, did my kindergarten teacher hate me.
Me too. I started out on cereal boxes. It
pissed me off that my parents knew what they said
and I didn't, so I kept asking questions until
I learned how to read.
--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet: ken...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Mercellus Bohren
Finger Painting
Caution: Pull finger out of arse-hole before proceeding.
I"M THE HELPFUL WON!
Jon Enslin
When my son was in pre-school at Terre Haute First Baptist Church, we
had a teacher parent conference where the teacher said that my son was
a very "bright and social boy" but had trouble using a sissors to cut
things out and maybe we should "practice at home."
My wife and I still get a good laugh over that one.
Jon
Bryan S. Slick
[ Ralph Kennedy | ken...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu ]
[ <IzqH3...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu> ]
:> I apparently taught myself to read when I was 3. My father would read a
:> story book to me when he came home from work and then let me run off with
:> it, and one day while my mom was tending to newborn baby brother she saw me
:> thoughtfully turning the pages of a book and asked me to read it to her --
:> and I could.
:>
:> Boy, did my kindergarten teacher hate me.
:
: Me too. I started out on cereal boxes. It
:pissed me off that my parents knew what they said
:and I didn't, so I kept asking questions until
:I learned how to read.
Hi. ($1) With me, it was the newspaper... flipped my mother out when
she came home and I was reading it. She thought I was just looking at
the pictures until I said something about the article. If I remember
right, it was an article about Mike Flanagan (a pitcher for the
Baltimore Orioles).
Did any of you have the multiplication tables push-board?
--
Bryan S. Slick, onyx_hokie at yahoo dot com
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
(Salvor Hardin in 'Foundation', Isaac Asimov)
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
I got sent to developmental kindergarten. I could read and do math, but I
couldn't walk a balance beam therefore I get held back. I was then
immediately doing "next grade" level work throughout the rest of elementary
school - but since my school system does not allow kids to be moved ahead
grades I just did the work but attended the lower grade class. Stupidity
personified.
--
Aaron
Bryan S. Slick
[ | abor...@redshark.goodshow.net ]
[ <1eT362g4...@redshark.goodshow.net> ]
:I got sent to developmental kindergarten. I could read and do math, but I
:couldn't walk a balance beam therefore I get held back. I was then
:immediately doing "next grade" level work throughout the rest of elementary
:school - but since my school system does not allow kids to be moved ahead
:grades I just did the work but attended the lower grade class. Stupidity
:personified.
Be glad that you weren't moved ahead, particularly if you were behind in
physical development. I was quite small as an elementary school-aged
child, and I was placed in the 6th grade math and english classes when I
was 7 years old. (I went to the rest of my classes with my age group.)
12 year olds don't like being shown up by a 7 year old, and by that age
they've learned at least one way in particular of noting their
displeasure. I didn't enjoy that year at all and dreaded going to
school. For all I know, the self-destructive impulse I've fought for
years, in terms of education, stems from those days.
Ralph Kennedy
> [ Ralph Kennedy | ken...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu ]
> :> Jay Furr:
> :> story book to me when he came home from work and then let me run off with
> :> it, and one day while my mom was tending to newborn baby brother she
> :> saw me thoughtfully turning the pages of a book and asked me to read it
> :>
> :> Boy, did my kindergarten teacher hate me.
> :
> : Me too. I started out on cereal boxes. It
> :pissed me off that my parents knew what they said
> :and I didn't, so I kept asking questions until
> :I learned how to read.
>
> Hi. ($1) With me, it was the newspaper... flipped my mother out when
> she came home and I was reading it. She thought I was just looking at
> the pictures until I said something about the article. If I remember
> right, it was an article about Mike Flanagan (a pitcher for the
> Baltimore Orioles).
WE'R3 FR0M RSFC!@!1!!! WER'3 SMRAT!!@1!11!!!!!
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
> [ 23 May 2006 20:28:42 GMT ]
> [ | abor...@redshark.goodshow.net ]
> [ <1eT362g4...@redshark.goodshow.net> ]
>
> :I got sent to developmental kindergarten. I could read and do math, but I
> :couldn't walk a balance beam therefore I get held back. I was then
> :immediately doing "next grade" level work throughout the rest of elementary
> :school - but since my school system does not allow kids to be moved ahead
> :grades I just did the work but attended the lower grade class. Stupidity
> :personified.
>
> Be glad that you weren't moved ahead, particularly if you were behind in
> physical development. I was quite small as an elementary school-aged
> child, and I was placed in the 6th grade math and english classes when I
> was 7 years old. (I went to the rest of my classes with my age group.)
> 12 year olds don't like being shown up by a 7 year old, and by that age
> they've learned at least one way in particular of noting their
> displeasure. I didn't enjoy that year at all and dreaded going to
> school. For all I know, the self-destructive impulse I've fought for
> years, in terms of education, stems from those days.
I was uncoordinated, but always large for my age. I was probably 3-4 inches
taller than the average kid through middle school, at which point I quit
growing and lots of other people caught up. At the end of 6th grade I was
5'10", 155lbs. I'm now 6'1", 165lbs. I doubt I ever would have been pushed
that far ahead, as even though I was reading at levels post high school I was
only moved up to read with one grade ahead of mine.
--
Aaron
Bryan S. Slick
[ | abor...@redshark.goodshow.net ]
[ <aT364e1...@redshark.goodshow.net> ]
:> Be glad that you weren't moved ahead, particularly if you were behind in
:> physical development. I was quite small as an elementary school-aged
:> child, and I was placed in the 6th grade math and english classes when I
:> was 7 years old. (I went to the rest of my classes with my age group.)
:> 12 year olds don't like being shown up by a 7 year old, and by that age
:> they've learned at least one way in particular of noting their
:> displeasure. I didn't enjoy that year at all and dreaded going to
:> school. For all I know, the self-destructive impulse I've fought for
:> years, in terms of education, stems from those days.
:
:I was uncoordinated, but always large for my age. I was probably 3-4 inches
:taller than the average kid through middle school, at which point I quit
:growing and lots of other people caught up. At the end of 6th grade I was
:5'10", 155lbs. I'm now 6'1", 165lbs. I doubt I ever would have been pushed
:that far ahead, as even though I was reading at levels post high school I was
:only moved up to read with one grade ahead of mine.
They didn't seem to know what to do with me. Algebra was coming easily
to me at that age, and I really enjoyed it, too. Not long after all of
this sort of thing, the SMP program started.. followed soon after by the
GT program. All in all, the entire experience sucked, to be honest with
you. I never managed to be challenged in 12 years of school and never
learned how to study as I never had to; I got to college and needed a
skill set that was completely absent from my repetoire. I should have
taken an easy major like math, sociology, or business, I guess. Pre-
veterinary medicine, replete with tons of classes which require a great
deal of studying and memorization, kicked my ass for the first year.
Then again, the fact that I had no study skills at all and no real
discipline (didn't need that in high school, either.. 4.0 my senior year
while missing over 30 days) didn't help. I was so used to missing class
and acing everything anyway that I thought (wrongly) that I could
continue that behavior in college. Whoops.
I learned in time, pulled my head out of my ass, and was in the high end
of the 3.5 range GPA-wise, when I had to leave due to money. Oh well.
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
I can understand that - I never did learn to study. Luckily I never had to
do it. I enjoyed my primary education experience, but it certainly wasn't
becuase it was the most challenging curriculum - either I had to push the
curriculum (like my penchant for reading 2x the number of books assigned for
literature courses) or only enjoy those few classes that were actually
stimulating.
I do think that moving kids ahead grades (especially more than one) is more
likely to traumatize the child than to improve their education.
> I should have
> taken an easy major like math, sociology, or business, I guess. Pre-
> veterinary medicine, replete with tons of classes which require a great
> deal of studying and memorization, kicked my ass for the first year.
I don't know about sociology or business as an undergrad, but math as a
major (outside of math education) is a pretty difficult subject most places.
> Then again, the fact that I had no study skills at all and no real
> discipline (didn't need that in high school, either.. 4.0 my senior year
> while missing over 30 days) didn't help. I was so used to missing class
> and acing everything anyway that I thought (wrongly) that I could
> continue that behavior in college. Whoops.
Luckily I was able to continu my non-studying, hard partying ways through
college.
--
Aaron
Bryan S. Slick
[ | abor...@redshark.goodshow.net ]
[ <gT364kb...@redshark.goodshow.net> ]
:> I should have
:> taken an easy major like math, sociology, or business, I guess. Pre-
:> veterinary medicine, replete with tons of classes which require a great
:> deal of studying and memorization, kicked my ass for the first year.
:
:I don't know about sociology or business as an undergrad, but math as a
:major (outside of math education) is a pretty difficult subject most places.
I've never found math of any sort difficult. That's not a brag.. just a
fact. If something's new, I read the chapter on how to go about it, and
then just do it. I helped a girlfriend through multivariable calculus
in this way, a subject I'd never seen before that time. It's just one
of those things. I didn't major in math because by the time I was ready
to leave high school I was so sick of math that I *hated* it. The thing
at which I excel beyond any other subject.. was something I despised by
the time I was ready to use it in a meaningful way.
:> Then again, the fact that I had no study skills at all and no real
:> discipline (didn't need that in high school, either.. 4.0 my senior year
:> while missing over 30 days) didn't help. I was so used to missing class
:> and acing everything anyway that I thought (wrongly) that I could
:> continue that behavior in college. Whoops.
:
:Luckily I was able to continu my non-studying, hard partying ways through
:college.
Praise the Lord you didn't take a pre-med or pre-vet curriculum. ;)
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
> [ | abor...@redshark.goodshow.net ]
> [ <gT364kb...@redshark.goodshow.net> ]
>
> :> I should have
> :> taken an easy major like math, sociology, or business, I guess. Pre-
> :> veterinary medicine, replete with tons of classes which require a great
> :> deal of studying and memorization, kicked my ass for the first year.
> :
> :I don't know about sociology or business as an undergrad, but math as a
> :major (outside of math education) is a pretty difficult subject most places.
>
> I've never found math of any sort difficult. That's not a brag.. just a
> fact. If something's new, I read the chapter on how to go about it, and
> then just do it. I helped a girlfriend through multivariable calculus
> in this way, a subject I'd never seen before that time.
I took the full engineering math swath at Michigan - 3 semesters of calc,
differential equations, linear spaces and matrix theory, engineering
statistical methods... and I never had an especially difficult time with any
of it. The stuff the math majors I knew were doing scared me.
> It's just one
> of those things. I didn't major in math because by the time I was ready
> to leave high school I was so sick of math that I *hated* it. The thing
> at which I excel beyond any other subject.. was something I despised by
> the time I was ready to use it in a meaningful way.
>
> :> Then again, the fact that I had no study skills at all and no real
> :> discipline (didn't need that in high school, either.. 4.0 my senior year
> :> while missing over 30 days) didn't help. I was so used to missing class
> :> and acing everything anyway that I thought (wrongly) that I could
> :> continue that behavior in college. Whoops.
> :
> :Luckily I was able to continu my non-studying, hard partying ways through
> :college.
>
> Praise the Lord you didn't take a pre-med or pre-vet curriculum. ;)
Nah... I'm really good at memorization, I read very quickly, and doing the
homework were always enough for me to know and remember the concepts.
--
Aaron
Bryan S. Slick
[ | abor...@redshark.goodshow.net ]
[ <uT364qp...@redshark.goodshow.net> ]
:> :Luckily I was able to continu my non-studying, hard partying ways through
:> :college.
:>
:> Praise the Lord you didn't take a pre-med or pre-vet curriculum. ;)
:
:Nah... I'm really good at memorization, I read very quickly, and doing the
:homework were always enough for me to know and remember the concepts.
I've always been slightly envious of those with photographic memories,
though I wonder how much they actually understand, and how much they
simply regurgitate. I get the definite impression that people like
Asimov, who had both a photographic memory *and* extraordinary
intelligence, are few and far between.
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
> [ | abor...@redshark.goodshow.net ]
> [ <uT364qp...@redshark.goodshow.net> ]
>
> :> :Luckily I was able to continu my non-studying, hard partying ways through
> :> :college.
> :>
> :> Praise the Lord you didn't take a pre-med or pre-vet curriculum. ;)
> :
> :Nah... I'm really good at memorization, I read very quickly, and doing the
> :homework were always enough for me to know and remember the concepts.
>
> I've always been slightly envious of those with photographic memories,
> though I wonder how much they actually understand, and how much they
> simply regurgitate.
I think it depends on the person - true photographic memory is reasonably
rare in and of itself. My memory is far from photographic, but I'm generally
good at remembering what I need to.
> I get the definite impression that people like
> Asimov, who had both a photographic memory *and* extraordinary
> intelligence, are few and far between.
Certainly - both groups are relatively tiny to begin with, so the
intersection is likely to be miniscule.
--
Aaron