Two Towers: unwatchable
Pauli G
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
xyzzy
WWTCP?
Pauli G
although I'm happy to report that the director still has not gone the
low road of hobbit sexploitation which would have been so easy to do.
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
> While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
> money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
> imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
> first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
> jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
Pauli G
wrote:
> "Pauli G" <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
Pauli G
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
> > > While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
> > > money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
> > > imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
> > > first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
> > > jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
>
> > A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
>
> > --Tedward
>
> if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
> up a few pulse rifles.
<
<In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
<Marshes and a Nazgűl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
<overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
<that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
<certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgűl
<out of the sky.
They could have shot down the beast, but it couldn't kill a Nazgűl
unless fired by a woman.
They'd be stuck with one pissed off Nazgűl.
--Tedward
Goro
wrote:
> "Pauli G" <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > > > While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
> > > > money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
> > > > imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
> > > > first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
> > > > jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
>
> > > A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
>
> > > --Tedward
>
> > if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
> > up a few pulse rifles.
>
> <
> <In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
> <overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
> <that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
> <out of the sky.
>
> They could have shot down the beast, but it couldn't kill a Nazgûl
> unless fired by a woman.
>
>
> --Tedward
Sam isn't a woman?
-goro-
Michael Press
<ffd6953f-e321-47f6...@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Pauli G <rio...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Gratuitous not-so-blind link.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_tossing>
--
Michael Press
Chet Weaver
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
"Pauli G" <rio...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:249cd4c3-325c-4dad...@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 19, 1:25 pm, Pauli G <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 19, 1:22 pm, "The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "Pauli G" <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > > While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
> > > money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
> > > imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
> > > first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
> > > jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
>
> > A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
>
> > --Tedward
>
> if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
> up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgűl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
unclejr
> On Aug 19, 11:24 am, "The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com>
> wrote:
> > "Pauli G" <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > > > > While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
> > > > > money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
> > > > > imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
> > > > > first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
> > > > > jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
>
> > > > A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
>
>
> > > up a few pulse rifles.
>
> > <
> > <In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
> > <Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
> > <overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
> > <that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
> > <certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
> > <out of the sky.
>
> > They could have shot down the beast, but it couldn't kill a Nazgûl
> > unless fired by a woman.
>
> > They'd be stuck with one pissed off Nazgûl.
>
>
In Ralph Bakshi's version he was.
-Junior
tenworld
> I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
> fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
> type fantasy setting?
I think it raises an interesting point or maybe something called
Merlin's 1st law: Wizards can only conjure up technology limited to
the physical laws of the world they are in. Middle Earth was not yet
an Einstonian-atomic world. As the world changed into modern times
the abilities of a wizard would eveolve.
Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from the the
technology that could be imagined.
Pauli G
> I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
> fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
> type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
> technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
> settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
> to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
> face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
> I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
> just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't watch a
> movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
>
> -- Chet Weaver
>
>
> news:249cd4c3-325c-4dad...@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 19, 1:25 pm, Pauli G <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 19, 1:22 pm, "The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > "Pauli G" <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > > > While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
> > > > money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
> > > > imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
> > > > first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
> > > > jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
>
> > > A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
>
> > > --Tedward
>
> > if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
> > up a few pulse rifles.
>
> In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
> overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
> that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
> out of the sky.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
Pauli G
I thought that conjuring a Pulse Rifle would be keeping well within
the first law of wizardry, that's why I didn't suggest something
ridiculous and unrealistic like an X-wing fighter.
unclejr
Actually, of the three, I thought it was the best.
-Junior
Michael Press
"Chet Weaver" <zero...@aim.com> wrote:
> I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
> fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
> type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
> technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
> settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
> to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
> face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
> I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
> just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't watch a
> movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
Here is your lemon slice and tartar sauce.
A big hand for contestant number 5!
--
Michael Press
Öjevind Lång
news:839d2804-3958-4f74...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
>> Sam isn't a woman?
>
> In Ralph Bakshi's version he was.
That's not my recollection. As I remember it, Bakshi depicted Sam as an
ugly, snivelling moron.
Öjevind
derek
>
> http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Pauli G
>
> - Show quoted text -
that's way too technical Derek, remember that this is fantasy. And
also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle. Considering how orcs
travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
the doctor ordered.
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
news:i4kieb$2s9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
>fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
>type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
>technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same
>high-fantasy settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like
>Middle-Earth harkens to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had
>to fight your enemy face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance
>with a chaingun. I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie
>was all that great, just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie.
>If you don't watch a movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse
>rifles.
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
--Tedward
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
> > > Marshes and a Nazgűl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
> > > overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
> > > that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
> > > certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgűl
> > > out of the sky.
>
> > it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
>
> >http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49OZ0M_0fhg
>
> Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
> Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.- Hide
> quoted text -
<
<that's way too technical Derek, remember that this is fantasy. And
<also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
<related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
<grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle. Considering how orcs
<travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
<the doctor ordered.
It would be cool if the M41A glowed when orcs are near.
--Tedward
Pauli G
> > > > overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
> > > > that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
> > > > out of the sky.
>
> > > it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
>
> > >http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49OZ0M_0fhg
>
> > Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
> > Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.- Hide
> > quoted text -
>
> <
> <that's way too technical Derek, remember that this is fantasy. And
> <also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
> <related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
> <grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle. Considering how orcs
> <travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
> <the doctor ordered.
>
> It would be cool if the M41A glowed when orcs are near.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
it'd be real cool if there were graffiti names painted on the M4A1s,
and someone named his "The Orcinator"
Pauli G
>
> - Show quoted text -
and the hobbit with the most orc kills would call himself "the Orc n'
Man"
derek
> also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
> related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
> grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle. Considering how orcs
> travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
> the doctor ordered.
Indeed it would, but an rpg _is_ basic rocket science. Pure applied
physics!
unclejr
> "unclejr" <wats...@kenyon.edu> wrote...
>
> > In Ralph Bakshi's version he was.
>
> That's not my recollection. As I remember it, Bakshi depicted Sam as an
> ugly, snivelling moron.
A highly effeminate one, though.
-Junior
Pauli G
manpurse?
tenworld
wrote:
> Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
> pulse gun.
>
Gandalf used a biological weapon? that would certainly be too
advanced
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
> Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
> pulse gun.
<
<Gandalf used a biological weapon? that would certainly be too
<advanced
Technically, I guess the staph is made of wood, but that hardly
makes it a biological weapon.
--Tedward
Chet Weaver
he could make something that does?
-- Chet Weaver
"Pauli G" <rio...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:72cea77c-92a3-4667...@u31g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
Pauli G
> If the wizard isn't already rapid-firing energy bursts, what makes you think
> he could make something that does?
>
A wizard's energy bursts are so rapid that to our mortal eyes it only
appears to be a steady stream of energy - in fact it's pulsating.
Michael Press
<b18b7215-b2a7-49ba...@h19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
--
Michael Press
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
>> > > Marshes and a Nazgűl appears riding a flying beast and starts
>> > > circling
>> > > overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
>> > > that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
>> > > certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgűl
>> > > out of the sky.
>> >
>> > it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
>> >
>> > http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
>> >
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49OZ0M_0fhg
>>
>> Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
>> Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
>
> Energy is not real the way matter is real.
> The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
> That does not mean you can cage some energy
> in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
> known unvarying quantity of energy in the
> way you can isolate a positron or some other
> particle in a Penning trap.
Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
--Tedward
Michael Press
"The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote:
You do not see the germ of his witticism.
--
Michael Press
Chet Weaver
"The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote in message
news:i4m4cl$rv9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
difficult skill in his world, and Gandalf is over 2000 years old and
considered one of, if not the, best. And yet, with legions of monsters
bearing down on him, he finds swinging a sword more effective than trying to
shoot lasers, summoning lightning bolts from the sky, or even magically
nuking the field. While the effect may be similar to a pulse gun, he's not
*using* a pulse gun. He *is* the pulse gun. A pulse gun is solely designed
for the purpose of generating and projecting destructive energy blasts. It
is not concerned with its own maintenance or well-being, only causing
specific reactions to a pulled trigger. Gandalf is a complex organism that
has to eat, sleep, and breath on his own, is capable of independent thought,
action, and emotion, seeks the companionship of others, and has to do a
myriad of other things associated with being a living being. Doing what a
pulse gun can do on command takes considerable energy, focus, and knowledge
on a complex series of reactions that is slightly better than impossible in
the natural world with little more at his disposal than his ancient brain, a
wooden stick, and a long, white beard. Try assembling a gun each time you
want to fire a bullet and think about how many Orcs you can take down that
way.
--
Chet Weaver
"World leaders and shield eaters have many likes alike."
-- Hylian proverb
Chet Weaver
"The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote in message
news:i4n0ku$8bt$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote
>
>> Energy is not real the way matter is real.
>> The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
>> That does not mean you can cage some energy
>> in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
>> known unvarying quantity of energy in the
>> way you can isolate a positron or some other
>> particle in a Penning trap.
>
> Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
>
breaking down materials to create reactions measured in volts. It contains
energy about as much as a lightbulb contains light.
Chet Weaver
necessary.
-- Chet Weaver
"Pauli G" <rio...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fc2afb46-2f27-4c4b...@f20g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Pauli G
> And it must be real easy, right? 'Cause he only does it when absolutely
> necessary.
>
> -- Chet Weaver
>
>
> news:fc2afb46-2f27-4c4b...@f20g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 20, 6:22 pm, "Chet Weaver" <zeroo...@aim.com> wrote:
>
> > If the wizard isn't already rapid-firing energy bursts, what makes you
> > think
> > he could make something that does?
>
> A wizard's energy bursts are so rapid that to our mortal eyes it only
> appears to be a steady stream of energy - in fact it's pulsating.
sometimes in the movies the wizard's energy bursts are overdone, but I
thought that the LOTR nicely reflected how it is for wizards in real
life.
Pauli G
> "The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote in messagenews:i4m4cl$rv9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I could see the argument that Gandolf is a bio-pulse weapon, but let's
not forget that the M41A also is a rpg launcher. Gandolf cannot
launch rocket-propelled explosives. I quote:
"I wanna introduce you to a personal friend of mine. This is an M41A
pulse rifle. Ten millimeter with over-and-under thirty millimeter pump
action grenade launcher."
-- Hicks
Tonawanda Kardex
> While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
> money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
> imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
> first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
> jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
But Eowyn ROCKS your world.
Odysseus
Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
Foot-in-mouth disease?
But the thread was bacilli enough to start with.
--
Odysseus
Michael Press
> >> > > Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts
> >> > > circling
> >> > > overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
> >> > > that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
> >> > > certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
> >> > > out of the sky.
> >> >
> >> > it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
> >> >
> >> > http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
> >> >
> >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49OZ0M_0fhg
> >>
> >> Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
> >> Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
> >
> > Energy is not real the way matter is real.
> > The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
> > That does not mean you can cage some energy
> > in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
> > known unvarying quantity of energy in the
> > way you can isolate a positron or some other
> > particle in a Penning trap.
>
> Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
In theory 2.041 volt per cell for a total of 12.246 volt.
The battery in my car measures 12.27 volt,
but I do not know the accuracy of the meter.
--
Michael Press
Eric Kemp
> On Aug 19, 1:10 pm, xyzzy <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 19, 12:53 pm, Pauli G <rior...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
>>> money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
>>> imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
>>> first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
>>> jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
>
> although I'm happy to report that the director still has not gone the
> low road of hobbit sexploitation which would have been so easy to do.
What happens in Mordor stays in Mordor.
Chet Weaver
of the movie for Bilbo's 110th birthday. :P
-- Chet Weaver
"Pauli G" <rio...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6bc1f74d-60d8-479e...@x18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
J.C. Watts Enslin
> "The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy" <e...@o.com> wrote in messagenews:i4m4cl$rv9$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
You do realize that it's fiction right?
Jon
Taemon
> You do realize that it's fiction right?
This is the fun that fiction brings. Duh.
T.
Pauli G
Jon's a corporal in the Orc Army.
Chet Weaver
real time. Thanks for clearing that up.
At any rate, I fail to see how the realness of the subject matter relates to
the seriousness of the discussion.
-- Chet Weaver
"J.C. Watts Enslin" <jen...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ff03a251-0d5c-41fb...@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
derek
> >> > > circling
> >> > > overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
> >> > > that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
> >> > > out of the sky.
>
> >> > it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
>
> >> >http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
>
> >> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49OZ0M_0fhg
>
> >> Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
> >> Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
>
> > Energy is not real the way matter is real.
> > The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
> > That does not mean you can cage some energy
> > in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
> > known unvarying quantity of energy in the
> > way you can isolate a positron or some other
> > particle in a Penning trap.
You say that like you just contradicted me. Odd, since I completely
agree.
>
> Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
You think? You'd better get a new battery. 12V batteries should have
quite a bit more.
derek
> I could see the argument that Gandolf is a bio-pulse weapon, but let's
> not forget that the M41A also is a rpg launcher. Gandolf cannot
> launch rocket-propelled explosives. I quote:
>
Sure he can. Haven't you read /The Hobbit/? The scene with Gandalf
and the dwarves treed by wargs, and Gandalf firing RP Pine Cones?
Michael Press
<f96a8dba-d346-474b...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> > "Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote
> >
[...]
> > >> Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
> > >> Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
> >
> > > Energy is not real the way matter is real.
> > > The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
> > > That does not mean you can cage some energy
> > > in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
> > > known unvarying quantity of energy in the
> > > way you can isolate a positron or some other
> > > particle in a Penning trap.
>
> You say that like you just contradicted me. Odd, since I completely
> agree.
Do you retract
"Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave."
For if energy behaved like a particle
it could be exhibited in a Penning trap.
Energy in physical theory is
embodied in the energy principle. Physical
theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
--
Michael Press
derek
>
> derek <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> > > "Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote
>
> [...]
>
> > > >> Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
> > > >> Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
>
> > > > Energy is not real the way matter is real.
> > > > The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
> > > > That does not mean you can cage some energy
> > > > in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
> > > > known unvarying quantity of energy in the
> > > > way you can isolate a positron or some other
> > > > particle in a Penning trap.
>
> > You say that like you just contradicted me. Odd, since I completely
> > agree.
>
> Do you retract
> "Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave."
No.
> For if energy behaved like a particle
> it could be exhibited in a Penning trap.
Sometimes it doesn't. There's physics for you.
> Energy in physical theory is
> embodied in the energy principle. Physical
> theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
Indeed not. Otoh, it _does_ quite freely claim the interchangeability
of matter and energy.
Pauli G
I did not know that. So Gandolph basically has all the combat
capabilities of the M41A Pulse Rifle. This then brings me back to my
main point, that he should have been able to conjure these types of
weapons for Frodo and SamIAm.
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
>>> Energy is not real the way matter is real.
>>> The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
>>> That does not mean you can cage some energy
>>> in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
>>> known unvarying quantity of energy in the
>>> way you can isolate a positron or some other
>>> particle in a Penning trap.
>>
>> Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
>>
> Your car battery is *producing* exactly twelve volts. It is constantly
> breaking down materials to create reactions measured in volts. It
> contains energy about as much as a lightbulb contains light.
If you don't think batteries contain useful energy, you shouldn't
bother using flashlights when the lights go out.
--Tedward
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
>>>I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
>>>fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
>>>swords-and-sorcery type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy
>>>settings were magic and technology exist side-by-side, but they're
>>>usually not the same high-fantasy settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.
>>>A setting like Middle-Earth harkens to a time when combat was an actual
>>>skill and you had to fight your enemy face-to-face rather than mowing
>>>them down at a distance with a chaingun. I'm not saying guns suck or the
>>>Lord of the Rings movie was all that great, just that a gun wouldn't fit
>>>the themes of the movie. If you don't watch a movie like Lord of the
>>>Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
>>
>> Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
>> pulse gun.
>>
> Yes, but he's not rapid-firing energy-bursts like Rambo. Magic is a
> difficult skill in his world, and Gandalf is over 2000 years old and
> considered one of, if not the, best. And yet, with legions of monsters
> bearing down on him, he finds swinging a sword more effective than trying
> to shoot lasers, summoning lightning bolts from the sky, or even magically
> nuking the field.
Actually, he's using his magic *while* swinging his sword.
Sorta like the Nazgul, dummy.
--Tedward
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
"Michael Press" <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote
>> > >> Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
>> > >> Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
>> >
>> > > Energy is not real the way matter is real.
>> > > The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
>> > > That does not mean you can cage some energy
>> > > in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
>> > > known unvarying quantity of energy in the
>> > > way you can isolate a positron or some other
>> > > particle in a Penning trap.
>>
>> You say that like you just contradicted me. Odd, since I completely
>> agree.
>
> Do you retract
> "Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave."
>
>
> For if energy behaved like a particle
> it could be exhibited in a Penning trap.
Or it could move objects in a vaccuum.
--Tedward
Troels Forchhammer
Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> spoke these staves:
>
<snip>
> Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
I am tempted to quote Pauli (at least by attribution): "This isn't
right. This isn't even wrong."
Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of _anything_.
However, the claims about "energy" are no different from the claims
about the various ways that energy can be expressed -- such as, for
instance, mass.
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable
from magic.
- Arthur C. Clarke, /Profiles of The Future/, 1961
(Also known as 'Clarke's third law')
Chet Weaver
of nothing. I don't remember seeing anything like that in the movies. Even
if he could, he probably wouldn't think mere mortals could handle such
firepower. Responsibility-wise, if not physically or mentally.
-- Chet Weaver
"Pauli G" <rio...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:58bbcd66-4b70-4468...@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Michael Press
Troels Forchhammer <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
> In message <news:rubrum-03BF10....@news.albasani.net>
> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> spoke these staves:
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> > Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
>
> I am tempted to quote Pauli (at least by attribution): "This isn't
> right. This isn't even wrong."
>
> Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of _anything_.
>
> However, the claims about "energy" are no different from the claims
> about the various ways that energy can be expressed -- such as, for
> instance, mass.
Did you read what I wrote about Penning traps?
An electron can be caged and exhibited for weeks.
E = m.c^2 does not mean what you think it means.
--
Michael Press
derek
> In article <Xns9DDDEF4D449ACT.Fo...@130.133.4.11>,
LOL. I don't know you, so perhaps you do know what you're talking
about - but after years of believing Troels, I'm not going to stop now
(and I _know_ he knows what E=mc^!2 means).
Troels Forchhammer
>
> In article <Xns9DDDEF4D...@130.133.4.11>,
> Troels Forchhammer <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> In message <news:rubrum-03BF10....@news.albasani.net>
>> Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> spoke these staves:
>>>
>>
>>
>> Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of _anything_.
>>
>> However, the claims about "energy" are no different from the
>> claims about the various ways that energy can be expressed --
>> such as, for instance, mass.
>
> Did you read what I wrote about Penning traps?
Yes, but you appear not to have read what I wrote about physics . .
..
> An electron can be caged and exhibited for weeks.
You can prepare some system, and then use some complex measuring
equipment to make some measurements on that system. You then process
these measurements using some number-crusher, and you end with
results that are (more or less) equal to the results you get by
making some other calculations using a model that contains an
abstract entity called an electron. That is what physical theory is
limited to expressing itself about.
To say that physical theory holds that electrons are 'real' is
nonsense!
You appear to hold the mistaken belief that physical theory ascribes
some ontological status to the abstract entities in the model it
creates, but that is untrue. This realization has been an important
part of physics at least since Karl Popper's criticism of the use of
inductive reasoning in the natural sciences (excluding the purely
abstract mathematics).
In other words: modern physical theory does not claim that electrons
are real! Like most other physicists, I certainly believe that they
are, but this is _not_ something that is stated by physical theory --
this is a matter of belief and it may be that in 200 years the
physicists of that period will look back at our 'electrons' with the
same kind of overbearing smile with which we, today, look back at
e.g. the phlogiston theory.
It is a very important point to remmeber whenever we deal with the
natural sciences. The scientific method is a method of _doubt_, _not_
of certainty or 'truth' or 'reality' (I love Feynman's assertion that
'Science is the organized skepticism in the reliability of expert
opinion'). It may be that the model employed by modern physics is
closer to the objective reality than the model employed a century
ago, but we have no way of proving this: there is no way in which we
can infer from the specific to the universal (we should, of course,
also remember Russell's advice to remember that 'some things are much
more nearly certain than others.')
I can recommend the overview given at
<http://www.arachnoid.com/doubt/>. The view of science as a human
activity is, I'm afraid, somewhat idealistic (at least it deals more
with 'science as it should be' than 'science as it is') and not
necessarily in accordance with modern theories of science (which are,
of course, not themselves scientific <GG>), but this doesn't affect
the fundamentals. No scientific theory is held to be 'true', _even_
when there is solid evidence supporting it: instead it is considered
the best model we currently have, but likely to be eventually
superceded by a better one.
The discussion of the ontological status of the concepts we use in
physics becomes evidently ludicrous when it comes to such concepts as
energy, but also quarks, gluons and many other entitities employed in
modern physics. Physics can never make any statements about what is
'real' or 'true' -- such concepts simply have no place in physics
because physics has no way to say what is meant by them. There is
thus no way to distinguish the lack of ontological status ascribed to
electron from the lack of ontological status acribed to energy.
Another way to describe (going _beyond_ physical science, trying to
apply its descriptions to objective reality) what is going on in the
Penning trap is to say that you have trapped a certain amount of
energy in a form in which it has a certain electrical charge and
other characteristics. Energy with these particular characteristics
is then what we call an electron. This description is every bit as
much in accordance with modern physics as merely saying that an
electron is trapped.
> E = m.c^2 does not mean what you think it means.
What it means certainly depends on whom you ask -- many physicists
will tell you that it means that matter and energy are just two words
for the same thing (I do, for instance, remember one professor of
high energy physics at the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen who
told me precisely that). For my own part I am not an expert in
cosmology, general relativity or high energy physics (I did my M.Sc.
in electrophysics), so I will refrain from giving any opinion as to
what might be the _physical_ (i.e. 'real') meaning of the equation (I
know, of course, what it means in the abstract mathematical model
that is physical theory).
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left
the path of wisdom.
- Gandalf, /The Fellowship of the Ring/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)