American Idol, Summarized
Chris Bellomy
Murdoch hype machine try to identify the best unoriginal singer of
shitty music."
--some guy on facebook
cb
RaginPage
Quite frankly, the moment Idol started to focus more on the judges
than the singing, which was about season 2 or 3, it went downhill.
Sadly, The X-factor will come along, usurp Idol's audience proving
that Idol was correct, people are more interested in how mean the
judges can be than the singing.
What's funny to me, is that after years of established artists being
blown off the stage by Idol alumni that can actually sing, people
still try and claim there is no talent on the show.
I defy anyone to watch Dream Girls (it's okay, when you go on dates,
you are expected to watch a movie like this once in a while) and try
to assert that Jennifer Hudson can't sing.
Brent
GregoryD
It's more important to look good nowadays to be a successful pop artist
than it is to sing well. Rihanna couldn't carry a tune on a cargo ship
even WITH autotune, for example, yet she's very successful. Just look
at that Susan Boyle thing over there in Britain. It's as if all this
time, people were completely unaware that your looks have nothing to do
with your ability to sing. Apparently they didn't catch this during
Paul McCartney, Phil Collins, and Elton John's respective careers.
GregoryD
DanS.
words together as I was on 1/15/2010 in saying:
> "Three nitwits and a national TV audience drawn by a relentless Murdoch hype
>
> --some guy on facebook
>
>
> cb
IFYPFY
Peach
>
> It's more important to look good nowadays to be a successful pop artist
> than it is to sing well. Rihanna couldn't carry a tune on a cargo ship
> even WITH autotune, for example, yet she's very successful. Just look
> at that Susan Boyle thing over there in Britain. It's as if all this
> time, people were completely unaware that your looks have nothing to do
> with your ability to sing. Apparently they didn't catch this during
> Paul McCartney, Phil Collins, and Elton John's respective careers.
>
> GregoryD- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I thought Paul was cute. ;-)
Peach
Peach
So you were just dying to post on my status about News Corp, weren't
you?? ;-)
Peach
Chris Bellomy
Jennifer Hudson lost.
RaginPage
>
I think that's my point. Fantasia can sing too. There has been a
wealth of talent discovered by American Idol. Nearly everyone in the
finals can sing. Sometimes they are too boring image-wise to make it
once Idol is over though.
I can understand how people would be turned off by the cheesiness of
it and all that, but to claim they can't sing is just coming from
people that aren't taking the time to listen.
Brent
Chris Bellomy
> On Jan 15, 2:33 pm, Chris Bellomy <ten.wohsdoog@sirhc> wrote:
>> RaginPage wrote, On 1/15/10 7:26 AM:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 15, 4:20 am, Chris Bellomy <ten.wohsdoog@sirhc> wrote:
>>>> "Three nitwits and a national TV audience drawn by a relentless
>>>> Murdoch hype machine try to identify the best unoriginal singer of
>>>> shitty music."
>>>> --some guy on facebook
>>>> cb
>>> Quite frankly, the moment Idol started to focus more on the judges
>>> than the singing, which was about season 2 or 3, it went downhill.
>>> Sadly, The X-factor will come along, usurp Idol's audience proving
>>> that Idol was correct, people are more interested in how mean the
>>> judges can be than the singing.
>>> What's funny to me, is that after years of established artists being
>>> blown off the stage by Idol alumni that can actually sing, people
>>> still try and claim there is no talent on the show.
>>> I defy anyone to watch Dream Girls (it's okay, when you go on dates,
>>> you are expected to watch a movie like this once in a while) and try
>>> to assert that Jennifer Hudson can't sing.
>> Jennifer Hudson lost.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>
> I think that's my point. Fantasia can sing too. There has been a
> wealth of talent discovered by American Idol. Nearly everyone in the
> finals can sing. Sometimes they are too boring image-wise to make it
> once Idol is over though.
I'll quote myself again:
"The aim of any serious musician is to make music that's
expressive and original. Sometimes, that might mean Frank
Sinatra, but sometimes, it might mean Tom Waits. Tom Waits
would be one of the people the cretinous judges would
cover their faces and laugh at, before Simon sent him
offstage with some snarky bitchy comment. Tom Waits also
happens to be a national treasure -- a true American idol.
The show glamorizes the mundane and marginalizes the
visionary."
Great voices? Perhaps. Possibly even great interpreters,
like Hudson. To succeed on Idol, though, they have to set
their originality aside and not take chances. However
great the craft, it's artistically bankrupt. That the
performers might be able to do so much more than they
could ever display on that show makes it even worse IMO.
cb
GregoryD
Sure, in the same way that bloodhounds are cute.
GregoryD
GregoryD
The name of the show is not American Musician. It's American Idol. As
in Pop Idol. They aren't there to be musically creative. They're there
to sing songs that other people wrote to the best of their abilities.
They are giving presentations of other people's work. This is also why
they're called "recording artists" and not "musical artists."
GregoryD
RaginPage
>
Chris, increasingly, the winners and finalists are writing their own
songs and bringing their own arrangements to the music. Some of the
renditions are completely unrecognizable. Sometimes that's bad,
sometimes that's good.
However, the fact that Tom Waits would ever be mentioned, makes me
think you need your ears checked. I'll take someone covering Bob
Dylan usually before I'll take Bob Dylan. Sure, I'll take good
emoting over pure vocals, but not people that can't even hit notes.
We clearly differ on this, and a show like Idol probably isn't going
to interest you much, that's okay. It's just that a show that had
that originality you crave would likely fail. How many artists craft
and re-craft their song before it's the recognizable tune we hear?
How much time are you going to give them to write their music?
I guess I'd rather discuss what American Idol is, rather than what it
isn't. But Chris Daughtry, David Cook, and Kris Allen are out there
writing some great songs and putting out good music (to me, anyway),
and I think that's a good thing. Even if I have to hear a Katherine
McPhee and Dianna DeGarmo to get there.
Brent
swangdb
> "The aim of any serious musician is to make music that's
> expressive and original. Sometimes, that might mean Frank
> Sinatra, but sometimes, it might mean Tom Waits. Tom Waits
> would be one of the people the cretinous judges would
> cover their faces and laugh at, before Simon sent him
> offstage with some snarky bitchy comment. Tom Waits also
> happens to be a national treasure -- a true American idol.
I don't get Tom Waits. Maybe I've played too many cover gigs. I like
his lyrics sometimes. Many people who I respect like him so maybe I'm
missing something, but I just don't like his singing.
> Great voices? Perhaps. Possibly even great interpreters,
> like Hudson. To succeed on Idol, though, they have to set
> their originality aside and not take chances. However
> great the craft, it's artistically bankrupt. That the
> performers might be able to do so much more than they
> could ever display on that show makes it even worse IMO.
I like the show more often than not. I don't consider many of the
contestants to be "artistically bankrupt" though it is a cool term
(and probably applies to me way more than it does to Idol).
This season they've already chosen a few singers who are "out there" a
bit, I'm curious if any of them will survive the Hollywood round.
dave
(unapologetic Idol fan)
Dan Bretta
That's probably a good thing...winners are bound by contract to make a
record with Simon Cowell's producers. Non-winners I think can go
whatever direction they want and with all the exposure they get it's
not hard for them to find a willing producer. Kelly Clarkson won and
I don't think her first record did all that well, but once she split
with the Idol people she did very well for herself. I'm not a huge
fan of hers, but just listening to her she obviously has talent. The
show has spun off an enormous amount of talent that is without
argument...now if you say that it is "unoriginal" then yeah, I kind of
agree with that, but there's not much "original" in the corporate
music scene anywhere.
Over the years I've been blown away by bands that I've seen in
downtown bars and once they leave town you never hear of them again or
they remain on the bar circuit forever. It's dumbfounding. Listen to
any Clear Channel rock station and you'll still be hearing the same
damb songs they've been playing for 30 years.
Dan
Dan Bretta
sounds like the creepy old pedophile neighbor on The Family Guy. That
voice is pretty original...creepy, but original.
Dan
Dan Bretta
that chyck can sing...I don't know what song it was, but it was
probably written for her.
Dan
RaginPage
She can sing, but she is boring to me. Of course my favorites are
boring to others, so what are you going to do?
Brent
swangdb
> It's just that a show that had
> that originality you crave would likely fail.
How about some of these ideas for music reality shows...
"Alternative Grunge Idol"
"Punk Idol"
"Acid Jazz Idol"
"Alt-Country Idol"
"Singer-Songwriter Idol" <- I might watch this one
"Cooler Than Thou Idol"
"Too Many Damn Piercings Idol"
"I'm An Artist, Damn It! Idol"
"Singers Who Make Money By Definition Suck Idol"
"I Will NOT Sing a Celine Dion Song Idol"
"Don't Tell ME What To Sing Idol"
"If I Went On A TV Reality Show I'd Be Artistically Bankrupt So
Instead I'll Keep Gigging At Dives For Poverty Wages Because It's Not
About Money Or Fame It's About My Songs Man Idol"
swangdb
> How about some of these ideas for music reality shows...
One more...
"The Music I Like Is Cool And Yours Sucks Idol"
Chris Bellomy
So they're not liars.
Woot.
cb
Chris Bellomy
"Reality Shows are Stupid and This One Especially So"
cb
RaginPage
>
> "Reality Shows are Stupid and This One Especially So"
>
Again, it is discovering good singers and impacting the music
industry. I don't really know of any other reality show that does
that. Every other reality show follows people being stupid and gets
off on drama.
This one, people sing songs and vote for their favorite.
I get people not liking reality shows, but to consider this one
"Especially So"
just quite frankly confuses me.
Brent
Chris Bellomy
> On Jan 15, 4:52 pm, Chris Bellomy <ten.wohsdoog@sirhc> wrote:
>> "Reality Shows are Stupid and This One Especially So"
>>
>
> Again, it is discovering good singers and impacting the music
> industry.
Negatively.
cb
RaginPage
Non American Idols hitting the radio waves.....
Ke$ha, Rihanna, Vox or put another way Akon, Jay Sean, Jason Derullo
etc, The Jonas Brothers, Lady Gaga
Sorry, not buying it. The kids from American Idol can sing are most
certainly improving that rubbish.
If you are looking for Tom Waits to get played on pop radio, you have
a long, long wait.
Brent
Chris Bellomy
> On Jan 15, 5:13 pm, Chris Bellomy <ten.wohsdoog@sirhc> wrote:
>> RaginPage wrote, On 1/15/10 4:06 PM:
>>
>>> On Jan 15, 4:52 pm, Chris Bellomy <ten.wohsdoog@sirhc> wrote:
>>>> "Reality Shows are Stupid and This One Especially So"
>>> Again, it is discovering good singers and impacting the music
>>> industry.
>> Negatively.
>
> Non American Idols hitting the radio waves.....
>
> Ke$ha, Rihanna, Vox or put another way Akon, Jay Sean, Jason Derullo
> etc, The Jonas Brothers, Lady Gaga
Yeah, but that crap has always been around. Adding more crap
on top of it ISN'T HELPING!
> If you are looking for Tom Waits to get played on pop radio, you have
> a long, long wait.
I'm not. I'd settle for a modern equivalent of Paul McCartney.
American Idol just insures we get a new Bobby Vinton every
year.
cb
rastafar...@yahoo.com
Agreed. American Idol is more like Eurovision in that people vote and
a winner is eventually selected. It's not the kind of reality show
that involves dating, bug-eating, or both. It's a singing contest.
That Don Guy
> RaginPage wrote:
>> Chris Bellomy wrote:
>>> RaginPage wrote:
>>>> Chris Bellomy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Three nitwits and a national TV audience drawn by a relentless
>>>>> Murdoch hype machine try to identify the best unoriginal singer of
>>>>> shitty music."
>>>>> --some guy on facebook
>>>>
>>>> Quite frankly, the moment Idol started to focus more on the judges
>>>> than the singing, which was about season 2 or 3, it went downhill.
>>>> Sadly, The X-factor will come along, usurp Idol's audience proving
>>>> that Idol was correct, people are more interested in how mean the
>>>> judges can be than the singing.
>>>> What's funny to me, is that after years of established artists being
>>>> blown off the stage by Idol alumni that can actually sing, people
>>>> still try and claim there is no talent on the show.
>>>> I defy anyone to watch Dream Girls (it's okay, when you go on dates,
>>>> you are expected to watch a movie like this once in a while) and try
>>>> to assert that Jennifer Hudson can't sing.
>>>
>>> Jennifer Hudson lost.
>>
>> I think that's my point. Fantasia can sing too. There has been a
>> wealth of talent discovered by American Idol. Nearly everyone in the
>> finals can sing. Sometimes they are too boring image-wise to make it
>> once Idol is over though.
>
>I'll quote myself again:
>
>"The aim of any serious musician is to make music that's
>expressive and original. Sometimes, that might mean Frank
>Sinatra, but sometimes, it might mean Tom Waits. Tom Waits
>would be one of the people the cretinous judges would
>cover their faces and laugh at, before Simon sent him
>offstage with some snarky bitchy comment. Tom Waits also
>happens to be a national treasure -- a true American idol.
>The show glamorizes the mundane and marginalizes the
>visionary."
The show tries as hard as it thinks it can to get singers who the
producers - especially Simon (who has made it quite clear that the
only reason he got involved with AI in the first place was to sign
singers to his record label) - think can sell recordings/downloads.
>Great voices? Perhaps. Possibly even great interpreters,
>like Hudson. To succeed on Idol, though, they have to set
>their originality aside and not take chances. However
>great the craft, it's artistically bankrupt. That the
>performers might be able to do so much more than they
>could ever display on that show makes it even worse IMO.
This is a pop singing "contest". This hasn't been made quite as clear
as "Simon is in it only for the contracts", but the fact that singers
have been rejected for being "Disneyesque" makes the point clear. The
singers can sing whatever songs they want once the show is over.
For those of you not quite clear, listen to the following songs during
their movies:
"Beauty and the Beast" from "Beauty and the Beast"
"A Whole New World" from "Aladdin"
"Colors of the Wind" from "Pocahontas"
Now listen to those songs as they are performed during the closing
credits of those movies. It is the latter that AI wants.
-- Don
--
Because everybody needs insurance,
but not everybody needs a lawyer -
THAT'S why
swangdb
Tom Waits was in "The Book of Eli." I liked his performances. Of
course he didn't do any singing.