Abandoned mansions

[unklbob]

In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
anywhere else (like $200,000). On the margins of Detroit and the
Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.

http://tinyurl.com/869ofux

http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/

[Dennis J]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgri...@aol.com>
wrote:

I've seen other places like that, where people go in and start slowly
to renovate these places... it's a beautiful thing when it happens.
Highly educational from a construction standpoint as well, as these
places have been abandoned for in some cases decades and they still
stand... compare that to the decline of some recently built houses....
--

"The omnipotence of clairvoyance is dreadfully dualistic in its agnosticism" MISC Quote
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgri...@aol.com>
wrote:

Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there. It's
too easy to confuse damnyankees about whether they are watching ice
hockey or football - they get smart and move South and get even
smarter when they get to watch REAL football teams.

If Southern plantation owners would subdivide no one would live up
nawth except during the summer. And that's why they refuse to
subdivide.

Try the Cold Duck at the Ponchartrain in Detroit and the Ouzo in Greek
town.

Hugh

[unklbob]

On Feb 12, 10:06 am, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com>

> wrote:
>
> >In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> >could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> >servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> >anywhere else (like $200,000).  On the margins of Detroit and the
> >Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>
> >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>
> Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
> want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there.

And yet Ford Field, home of the perennially hopeless L'Yawns beats the
living cojones out of any stadium south of the Mason-Dixon line.
(Outside of Tejas)

[Dennis J]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:14:15 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgri...@aol.com>
wrote:

the oil can beats Ford field....

[Antonio Veranos]

[unklbob, mcgri...@aol.com]
[Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:14:15 -0800 (PST)]

: And yet Ford Field, home of the perennially hopeless L'Yawns beats the

: living cojones out of any stadium south of the Mason-Dixon line.
: (Outside of Tejas)

I wish this were so, but it's not.

[Sid]

* unklbob [2012-02-12 07:42] [rec.sport.football.college]:

Thanks for sharing this. I am a huge Detroit fan and I want her to
bounce back. I am fairly early in my career, but maybe I should look
into trying to purchase one of these and renovate.

Sid
--
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
remove the espam bits to mail

[Jim Brown]

On Feb 12, 10:28 am, Sid

<sid@invalid_nerte.invalid.invalid_net.invalid> wrote:
> * unklbob [2012-02-12 07:42] [rec.sport.football.college]:
>
> > In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> > could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> > servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> > anywhere else (like $200,000).  On the margins of Detroit and the
> > Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>
> >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>
> Thanks for sharing this. I am a huge Detroit fan and I want her to
> bounce back. I am fairly early in my career, but maybe I should look
> into trying to purchase one of these and renovate.
>
>

To what end? ie: what are you going to do with it once its renovated?

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 07:14:15 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgri...@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 12, 10:06=A0am, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
>> >could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
>> >servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost

>> >anywhere else (like $200,000). =A0On the margins of Detroit and the

>> >Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>>
>> >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>>
>> >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>>
>> Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
>> want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there.
>
>And yet Ford Field, home of the perennially hopeless L'Yawns beats the
>living cojones out of any stadium south of the Mason-Dixon line.
>(Outside of Tejas)

I've never been there. I note that it is an INDOOR stadium. But it's
awfully small.

Hugh

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Feb 12, 9:06 am, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com>

> wrote:
>
> >In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> >could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> >servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> >anywhere else (like $200,000).  On the margins of Detroit and the
> >Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>
> >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>
> Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
> want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there.

Um - Green Bay? New England? Chicago?

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Feb 12, 10:28 am, Sid
<sid@invalid_nerte.invalid.invalid_net.invalid> wrote:

> * unklbob [2012-02-12 07:42] [rec.sport.football.college]:
>
> > In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> > could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> > servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> > anywhere else (like $200,000).  On the margins of Detroit and the
> > Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>
> >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>
> Thanks for sharing this. I am a huge Detroit fan and I want her to
> bounce back. I am fairly early in my career, but maybe I should look
> into trying to purchase one of these and renovate.
>

Detroit is soooo tempting some times.....seems like the place where a
young man can come in and make some serious change

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

On Feb 12, 2:27 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"

Permanent domes in NFL: Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis
Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas

So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.

[unklbob]

On Feb 12, 3:27 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"

When I was there, there was a lot of complaints about how hard the
city government makes it for potential rehabbers. That seemed to be
the main obstacle to serious regentrification. We actually looked at
a beautiful property for around 300k--it was worth ten times that
amount in most cities, but we were told to stay the hell away by
several people whose opinion we valued. Even so, there are quite a
few young up and comers who are trying to turn things around.

[Sid]

* Jim Brown [2012-02-12 11:59] [rec.sport.football.college]:

Move there, teach at UM, run boat tours on St Clair or even *shock
horror* find work in Detroit.

[Sid]

* unklbob [2012-02-12 14:57] [rec.sport.football.college]:

> On Feb 12, 3:27 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
> <iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 10:28 am, Sid

>> > >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>>
>> > Thanks for sharing this. I am a huge Detroit fan and I want her to
>> > bounce back. I am fairly early in my career, but maybe I should look
>> > into trying to purchase one of these and renovate.
>>
>> Detroit is soooo tempting some times.....seems like the place where a
>> young man can come in and make some serious change
>
> When I was there, there was a lot of complaints about how hard the
> city government makes it for potential rehabbers. That seemed to be
> the main obstacle to serious regentrification. We actually looked at
> a beautiful property for around 300k--it was worth ten times that
> amount in most cities, but we were told to stay the hell away by
> several people whose opinion we valued. Even so, there are quite a
> few young up and comers who are trying to turn things around.

Some of my friends did move there in both the public and private
space. My contact with them is via social media now and it seems like
they are enjoying being part of the comeback effort (even it is just
being a productive member of society).

[DanS.]

That's not much different from any other great lakes rust belt state,
I'd imagine. The parts of town that were upscale are abandoned for any
number of reasons. We all have cars now. We can travel 20-45 minutes a
day in a commute and never bat an eyelash. What was a leisurely walk in
the neighborhood, is now a short drive to a commerical district.
Downtown is now only government, finance, and some upscale bars to
appear welcoming ...

There is one gorgeous mansion in downtown S.Bend I would love to have.
It sits on pretty small grounds, and has a parking lot next to it. But,
if the parking lot were landscaped, and the whole thing were privacy
fenced, it would make a good B&B for football weekends. How one would
finance it the rest of the year, I don't know.

--
Yours,
Dan S.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:27:56 -0800 (PST), "The Cheesehusker, Trade
Warrior" <iamtj...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 12, 9:06=A0am, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
>> >could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
>> >servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost

>> >anywhere else (like $200,000). =A0On the margins of Detroit and the

>> >Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>>
>> >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>>
>> >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>>
>> Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
>> want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there.
>
>Um - Green Bay? New England? Chicago?

I said they didn't WANT to play and don't WANT to watch, not that they
didn't. I would never say damnyankees didn't actually do stupid
things. Someone would quote snopes to correct me quickly.

Hugh

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Feb 12, 5:31 pm, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:27:56 -0800 (PST), "The Cheesehusker, Trade
>
>
>
>
>
> Warrior" <iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 12, 9:06=A0am, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> >> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> >> >could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> >> >servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> >> >anywhere else (like $200,000). =A0On the margins of Detroit and the
> >> >Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>
> >> >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>
> >> >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>
> >> Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
> >> want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there.
>
> >Um - Green Bay?  New England?  Chicago?
>
> I said they didn't WANT to play and don't WANT to watch, not that they
> didn't.

Which is why those teams find it so hard to get free agents or fans in
the stands.

[Thomas R. Kettler]

In article
<6c460207-0d54-4e28...@f14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,

"The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <iamtj...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's true. Green Bay couldn't get a DE who played at the University of
Tennessee and the Philadelphia Eagles to be willing to visit the "Frozen
Tundra at Lambeau Field", much less play there.
--
Remove blown from email address to reply.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:35:44 -0800 (PST), "J.C. Watts Enslin"
<jone...@charter.net> wrote:

>Permanent domes in NFL: Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis
>Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>
>So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.

I watched a game in below freezing weather once - in Pensacola about
1950 or so. I sat in a cold, driving rain for an entire game in Dallas
2 years ago - and another under metal stands with lightening flashing.
In high school phys ed was required and we played football the year
round - many times barefooted on frozen ground, shirts and skins.

So, it's not big deal to play in poor weather conditions. For college
and pros it negates the talent and upgrades mediocrity. No wonder
people up north want to play in those conditions.

Hugh

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

> So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nawlins?

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Feb 12, 6:12 pm, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:35:44 -0800 (PST), "J.C. Watts Enslin"
>

> <jonens...@charter.net> wrote:
> >Permanent domes in NFL:  Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis
> >Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>
> >So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.
>
> I watched a game in below freezing weather once

Just once? Sheesh - you have no idea what you've missed

 >
> So, it's not big deal to play in poor weather conditions.

You're right - in fact, it's kinda fun - far better than playing in
high heat and humidity.

[Antonio Veranos]

[J. Hugh Sullivan, Ea...@bellsouth.net]
[Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:31:41 GMT]

: >> Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't

: >> want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there.
: >
: >Um - Green Bay? New England? Chicago?
:
: I said they didn't WANT to play and don't WANT to watch, not that they
: didn't. I would never say damnyankees didn't actually do stupid
: things. Someone would quote snopes to correct me quickly.

Some people aren't pansies, and consider cold to be football weather.

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

On Feb 12, 6:28 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"

Ah...forgot that one. I also forgot Arizona.

[NapalmHeart]

"The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior" <iamtj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e63684c-baa6-494b...@p21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I hate high heat and humidity. Weeks of it here is better than months of it
anywhere.

[¤~Îñ©üßu§~®]

>> >Permanent domes in NFL: Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis
>> >Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>>
>> >So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.

* cough* New Orleans SUPERDOME *cough*

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Messr Enslin hates Mercedes....

[unklbob]

Detroit is not like any other rust belt city--its not uncommon to
drive through neighborhoods and see one in three houses abandoned,
burned out, or converted by local entrepreneurs into crackhouses.

[The Henchman]

>
> Detroit is soooo tempting some times.....seems like the place where a
> young man can come in and make some serious change

Detroit is in a pretty good spot for agriculture. They get moisture,
sun humidity when it's needed. If they can bull doze large tracts of
land and convert it into farmland, and greenhouses, they'd be a good
spot. The outer counties may not get good isotherms for tender fruit
etc but Wayne county should.

Windsor-Essex, Canada's Detroit suburb, has been really intensifying
it's agriculture and green house industries to the point that growing
veggies is a year round industry.

Detroit can do it if they put their minds to it. Basically inner
Detroit would be the farmland and the suburbs the housing and industry,
like a reverse city.

And unlike California or Mexico, there's not a water problem.

[The Henchman]

How is that different than Buffalo or Youngstown or Cleveland, or Flint
or East St. Louis or Gary or Wheeling or Syracuse?

Is it because Detroit is the biggest of the rust belt so everybody
thinks its worst of the rust belt? There are dozens of smaller
metropolitian rust belt cities that are in the same state that Detorit
is in with the same symptons.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

Isn't there a nascent organic movement doing exactly that?

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

On Feb 13, 7:49 am, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"

Yeah, I read something about it, but the city leaders aren't exactly
thrilled because it reduces tax base and doesn't create a bunch of
'jobs.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:30:16 -0800 (PST), "The Cheesehusker, Trade
Warrior" <iamtj...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 12, 6:12=A0pm, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:35:44 -0800 (PST), "J.C. Watts Enslin"
>>
>> <jonens...@charter.net> wrote:

>> >Permanent domes in NFL: =A0Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis

>> >Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>>
>> >So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.
>>
>> I watched a game in below freezing weather once
>
>Just once? Sheesh - you have no idea what you've missed

I'm a quick learner, hoss.

Hugh

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:30:16 -0800 (PST), "The Cheesehusker, Trade
Warrior" <iamtj...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 12, 6:12=A0pm, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:35:44 -0800 (PST), "J.C. Watts Enslin"
>>
>> <jonens...@charter.net> wrote:

>> >Permanent domes in NFL: =A0Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis

>> >Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>>
>> >So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.
>>
>> I watched a game in below freezing weather once
>
>Just once? Sheesh - you have no idea what you've missed
>

> =A0>

>> So, it's not big deal to play in poor weather conditions.
>
>You're right - in fact, it's kinda fun - far better than playing in
>high heat and humidity.

I think the difference is this - you perform at your highest level in
northern winter weather and I (used to) perform in high heat and
humidity and I will pass and kick further, run faster and enjoy
hugging a hot female more than you because you have several layers of
clothes between you.

But if I want to watch comedy a football game in sleet and snow is the
place for it - but forget good football.

Hugh

[Futbol Phan]

On Feb 12, 7:42 am, unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com> wrote:
> In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> anywhere else (like $200,000).  On the margins of Detroit and the
> Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>
> http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/

Based on the pictures, I would venture that none of these homes is in
Grosse Pointe, even Grosse Pointe Park, which is the closest GP to
Detroit. East side, New Center/Boston Blvd. area, Grand Blvd., etc.,
but not outside of Detroit.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

> 'jobs.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

dude does this in Milwaukee to much fanfare

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/magazine/05allen-t.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.growingpower.org/

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

On Feb 13, 10:33 am, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"

Wow. That is cool. I never knew about that.

It's at 55th and Silver Spring...right in the heart of the City. Next
time I'm in Milwaukee, I should swing by there and check it out.
There are still some farms further north within the city limits. When
I lived there almost 20 years ago, I drove past a working dairy farm
every day along Good Hope Road...not sure if it is still there
though. There is still some farming on the far south west side of
Milwaukee County...though not in the City of Milwaukee.

Not exactly sure how Milwaukee managed to escape the worst of the rust-
belt issues. By and large, the city is doing well as midwestern, blue-
collar cities go. Perhaps because it wasn't dominated by one single
employer or one single industry??? The city actually seems to have
halted its population loss too - after losing over 10% of its
population in the 80s, it has basically held steady over the last
decade.

[unklbob]

On Feb 13, 11:50 am, "J.C. Watts Enslin" <jonens...@charter.net>

Fuck industry.

Pabst Blue Ribbon!

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Feb 13, 10:50 am, "J.C. Watts Enslin" <jonens...@charter.net>

Isn't that awesome? No reason that can't be happening in a LOT of
cities.

There's another one down in Bay View which is hydroponic - uses an old
factory

http://sweetwater-organic.com/

> It's at 55th and Silver Spring...right in the heart of the City.  Next
> time I'm in Milwaukee, I should swing by there and check it out.
> There are still some farms further north within the city limits.  When
> I lived there almost 20 years ago, I drove past a working dairy farm
> every day along Good Hope Road...not sure if it is still there
> though.  There is still some farming on the far south west side of
> Milwaukee County...though not in the City of Milwaukee.
>
> Not exactly sure how Milwaukee managed to escape the worst of the rust-
> belt issues.  By and large, the city is doing well as midwestern, blue-
> collar cities go.  Perhaps because it wasn't dominated by one single
> employer or one single industry???  The city actually seems to have
> halted its population loss too - after losing over 10% of its
> population in the 80s, it has basically held steady over the last

> decade.-

Indeed it has done pretty well and seems to be thriving for the most
part. Tons of renewal going on in the city itself - the 5th ward is
hopping, tons of rehad along the river, Bay View is picking up
rapidly, etc.

[The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior]

On Feb 13, 10:50 am, "J.C. Watts Enslin" <jonens...@charter.net>

> decade.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Here's a little more about Milwaukee in particular

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/07/visions_of_post_industrial_milwaukee/

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

I guess you are saying the Rose Bowl is for pansies. I had not thought
of that.

Hugh

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy]

"J.C. Watts Enslin" <jone...@charter.net>

-----

Word: Beer is recession proof.

--Tedward

[xyzzy]

On Feb 12, 4:07 pm, Sid
<sid@invalid_nerte.invalid.invalid_net.invalid> wrote:
> * unklbob [2012-02-12 14:57] [rec.sport.football.college]:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 12, 3:27 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
> > <iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 12, 10:28 am, Sid
> >> > >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>
> >> > Thanks for sharing this. I am a huge Detroit fan and I want her to
> >> > bounce back. I am fairly early in my career, but maybe I should look
> >> > into trying to purchase one of these and renovate.

>
> >> Detroit is soooo tempting some times.....seems like the place where a
> >> young man can come in and make some serious change
>

> > When I was there, there was a lot of complaints about how hard the
> > city government makes it for potential rehabbers.  That seemed to be
> > the main obstacle to serious regentrification.  We actually looked at
> > a beautiful property for around 300k--it was worth ten times that
> > amount in most cities, but we were told to stay the hell away by
> > several people whose opinion we valued.  Even so, there are quite a
> > few young up and comers who are trying to turn things around.
>
> Some of my friends did move there in both the public and private
> space. My contact with them is via social media now and it seems like
> they are enjoying being part of the comeback effort (even it is just
> being a productive member of society).


Of course people tend to show the good side of things on social
media...

[xyzzy]

On Feb 12, 3:57 pm, unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 3:27 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 10:28 am, Sid
>

> > <sid@invalid_nerte.invalid.invalid_net.invalid> wrote:
> > > * unklbob [2012-02-12 07:42] [rec.sport.football.college]:

>
> > > > In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> > > > could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> > > > servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> > > > anywhere else (like $200,000).  On the margins of Detroit and the
> > > > Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>

> > > >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>
> > > Thanks for sharing this. I am a huge Detroit fan and I want her to
> > > bounce back. I am fairly early in my career, but maybe I should look
> > > into trying to purchase one of these and renovate.
>
> > Detroit is soooo tempting some times.....seems like the place where a
> > young man can come in and make some serious change
>
> When I was there, there was a lot of complaints about how hard the
> city government makes it for potential rehabbers.

Sigh... that's just dumn... And I'm speaking as a pro-regulation rsfc
pinko. When your whole city is crumbling is a good time to relax the
rules for things like rehabs. Actually if you want to encourage
rehabs you have to be flexible on requiring stuff to be brought up to
modern code or it's unaffordable, period. Asbestos is one thing...
definitely get rid of it. But ADA-compliant bathrooms (for one
example)??

I have a friend who is a retired general contractor, he's told many
potential customers that it's cheaper to tear down and rebuild than
rehab. One establishment that ignored his advice just closed under
the weight of their $1.4 million rehab loan. Sigh...

> That seemed to be
> the main obstacle to serious regentrification.  We actually looked at
> a beautiful property for around 300k--it was worth ten times that
> amount in most cities, but we were told to stay the hell away by
> several people whose opinion we valued.  Even so, there are quite a
> few young up and comers who are trying to turn things around.

Good luck to them.

[xyzzy]

On Feb 12, 7:12 pm, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:35:44 -0800 (PST), "J.C. Watts Enslin"
>

> <jonens...@charter.net> wrote:
> >Permanent domes in NFL:  Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis
> >Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>
> >So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.
>
> I watched a game in below freezing weather once  - in Pensacola about
> 1950 or so. I sat in a cold, driving rain for an entire game in Dallas
> 2 years ago - and another under metal stands with lightening flashing.
> In high school phys ed was required and we played football the year
> round - many times barefooted on frozen ground, shirts and skins.

Uphill! Both ways! Through chest-deep snow!

[xyzzy]

On Feb 12, 9:05 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"

<iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 7:32 pm, ¤~Îñ©üßu§~®  <sckf...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > >> >Permanent domes in NFL: Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis
> > >> >Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>
> > >> >So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.
>
> > * cough* New Orleans SUPERDOME *cough*
>

> Herr Enslin hates Mercedes....

IFYPFY

[xyzzy]

On Feb 12, 7:30 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"

yeah whenever it snowed here in NC when I was growing up my friends
would immediately get up a pickup football game going... great fun

[Dennis J]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:11:21 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgri...@aol.com>
wrote:

it like Schlitz is contract brewed in Dallas by Miller now.
--

"The omnipotence of clairvoyance is dreadfully dualistic in its agnosticism" MISC Quote
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

Miller is the only large-scale brewery left....along with some
microbrews. Schlitz was turned into a nice business park in the early
90s. Pabst redevelopment has been a disaster since the County is
trying to micromanage the process.

[Dennis J]

actually, Milwaukee always has been diverse. The real key is CEOs that
like it and do what they can to STAY rather than pack up and leave.

[David V. Loewe, Jr]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:06:12 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgri...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>

>>In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
>>could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
>>servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
>>anywhere else (like $200,000). On the margins of Detroit and the
>>Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>>
>>http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>

>Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't

>want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there. It's
>too easy to confuse damnyankees about whether they are watching ice
>hockey or football - they get smart and move South and get even
>smarter when they get to watch REAL football teams.

Hugh...

What the _*HELL*_ do abandoned mansions in Detroit have to do with
football?!?

>If Southern plantation owners would subdivide no one would live up
>nawth except during the summer. And that's why they refuse to
>subdivide.
>
>Try the Cold Duck at the Ponchartrain in Detroit and the Ouzo in Greek
>town.
--
"When it is broken down, the philosophy of environmentalism is the
philosophy of life on earth without humanity at all. Green becomes
the color of a forest that grows over unmarked graves."
Michelle Minton

[David Loewe, Jr.]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 08:49:01 -0500, The Henchman
<whya...@trybuddry.org> wrote:

>On 2/13/2012 7:55 AM, unklbob wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 4:08 pm, "DanS."<dslaughREM...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/12/2012 8:42 AM, unklbob wrote:
>>>
>>>> In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
>>>> could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
>>>> servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
>>>> anywhere else (like $200,000). On the margins of Detroit and the
>>>> Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
>>>
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
>>>
>>>> http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
>>>
>>> That's not much different from any other great lakes rust belt state,
>>> I'd imagine. The parts of town that were upscale are abandoned for any
>>> number of reasons. We all have cars now. We can travel 20-45 minutes a
>>> day in a commute and never bat an eyelash. What was a leisurely walk in
>>> the neighborhood, is now a short drive to a commerical district.
>>> Downtown is now only government, finance, and some upscale bars to
>>> appear welcoming ...
>>>
>>> There is one gorgeous mansion in downtown S.Bend I would love to have.
>>> It sits on pretty small grounds, and has a parking lot next to it. But,
>>> if the parking lot were landscaped, and the whole thing were privacy
>>> fenced, it would make a good B&B for football weekends. How one would
>>> finance it the rest of the year, I don't know.

>> Detroit is not like any other rust belt city--its not uncommon to
>> drive through neighborhoods and see one in three houses abandoned,
>> burned out, or converted by local entrepreneurs into crackhouses.
>
>How is that different than Buffalo or Youngstown or Cleveland, or Flint
>or East St. Louis or Gary or Wheeling or Syracuse?
>
>Is it because Detroit is the biggest of the rust belt so everybody
>thinks its worst of the rust belt? There are dozens of smaller
>metropolitian rust belt cities that are in the same state that Detorit
>is in with the same symptons.

You can't compare East St. Louis and Detroit. ESL is an adjunct to St.
Louis (and St. Louis County). Detroit is the heart of a multi-national
metro area that is twice the size of the one ESL is in.
--
"Though liberals do a great deal of talking about hearing other
points of view, it sometimes shocks them to learn that there are
other points of view."
William F. Buckley, Jr. - Up From Liberalism

[unklbob]

I know--its an old Dennis Hopper line from "Blue Velvet">

[The Henchman]

> You can't compare East St. Louis and Detroit. ESL is an adjunct to St.
> Louis (and St. Louis County). Detroit is the heart of a multi-national
> metro area that is twice the size of the one ESL is in.

ESL is in worst shape i would imagine. They've lost a higher percentage
of people from their peak population than Detroit has. It also seems
their violent crimes exceed that of Detroit and may have a higher
acrages of urban prarie than Detroit.

The point i was trying to make was Detroit sees itself as a poster child
for American ghost rust belt cities, but there are about 12 other cities
that have it as bad, or even bleaker than Detroit and Detroit should see
what successes or failures those other bleak places have had in the last
12 years or so.

I have to wonder if New Orleans has it worse than any large rust belt city.

[zox625]

On Feb 12 2012 3:35 PM, J.C. Watts Enslin wrote:

> On Feb 12, 2:27 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
> <iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 9:06 am, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com>

> > > wrote:
> >
> > > >In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> > > >could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> > > >servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> > > >anywhere else (like $200,000).  On the margins of Detroit and the
> > > >Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
> >
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
> >
> > > >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
> >

> > > Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
> > > want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there.
> >

> > Um - Green Bay?  New England?  Chicago?
>
>

> Permanent domes in NFL: Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis
> Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>
> So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.

Off topic, but... Anyone have a recap of how many NFL stadiums have
natural turf?

______________________________________________________________________ 

[zox625]

Nevermind... I found the wiki page.
 

--- 

[zox625]

On Feb 12 2012 3:35 PM, J.C. Watts Enslin wrote:

> On Feb 12, 2:27 pm, "The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior"
> <iamtj4l...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 12, 9:06 am, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 05:42:34 -0800 (PST), unklbob <mcgrisw...@aol.com>
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > >In Detroit, I came across dozens of these crumbling old palaces--you
> > > >could buy a 12 room mansion complete with a courtyard, carriage house,
> > > >servants quarters, etc., for a tiny fraction of what it would cost
> > > >anywhere else (like $200,000).  On the margins of Detroit and the
> > > >Grosse Pointes is where most of them are.
> >
> > > >http://tinyurl.com/869ofux
> >
> > > >http://vividlyvintage.com/2010/08/18/detroits-abandoned-mansions/
> >
> > > Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
> > > want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there.
> >
> > Um - Green Bay?  New England?  Chicago?
>
>
> Permanent domes in NFL: Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis
> Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>
> So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.

New Orleans.

____________________________________________________________________ 

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:37:31 -0800 (PST), xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 12, 7:12=A0pm, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:35:44 -0800 (PST), "J.C. Watts Enslin"
>>
>> <jonens...@charter.net> wrote:

>> >Permanent domes in NFL: =A0Detroit, Minnesota, Atlanta, St. Louis

>> >Retractable: Houston, Indianapolis, Dallas
>>
>> >So four midwestern and three southern cities have domes.
>>

>> I watched a game in below freezing weather once =A0- in Pensacola about

>> 1950 or so. I sat in a cold, driving rain for an entire game in Dallas
>> 2 years ago - and another under metal stands with lightening flashing.
>> In high school phys ed was required and we played football the year
>> round - many times barefooted on frozen ground, shirts and skins.
>
>Uphill! Both ways! Through chest-deep snow!

Never in snow. But guys who never punted a football barefooted when
playing on frozen ground shouldn't be telling me how great bad weather
football is.

Hugh

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:41:42 -0600, "David V. Loewe, Jr"
<dave...@charter.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:06:12 GMT, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)
>wrote:

>>Obviously athletes don't want to play football and spectators don't
>>want to watch football in the winter weather they have up there. It's
>>too easy to confuse damnyankees about whether they are watching ice
>>hockey or football - they get smart and move South and get even
>>smarter when they get to watch REAL football teams.
>
>Hugh...
>
>What the _*HELL*_ do abandoned mansions in Detroit have to do with
>football?!?

Everything is about football. Sometimes it takes a little while to get
there.

Hugh

[David V. Loewe, Jr]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:34:46 -0500, The Henchman
<whya...@trybuddry.org> wrote:

>> You can't compare East St. Louis and Detroit. ESL is an adjunct to St.
>> Louis (and St. Louis County). Detroit is the heart of a multi-national
>> metro area that is twice the size of the one ESL is in.
>
>ESL is in worst shape i would imagine. They've lost a higher percentage
>of people from their peak population than Detroit has.

Detroit has 38.5% of its peak population. ESL has 32.8% of its peak
population.

Whoop-tee-do.

>It also seems
>their violent crimes exceed that of Detroit and may have a higher
>acrages of urban prarie than Detroit.

I seriously doubt that as Detroit has 10 times the area (143 sq mi
versus 14.4 sq mi).

And, indeed, over 38 square miles of Detroit (27% of the city) are
vacant - far more than the total size of ESL.

<http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20080810/SUB/445236701/the-urban-prairie-detroit-farms-connect-people-food>

>The point i was trying to make was Detroit sees itself as a poster child
>for American ghost rust belt cities, but there are about 12 other cities
>that have it as bad, or even bleaker than Detroit and Detroit should see
>what successes or failures those other bleak places have had in the last
>12 years or so.

You don't compare a town of 82,366 (now 27,006) to a city of 1.85
million (now 713,777). It is ludicrous to try.

>I have to wonder if New Orleans has it worse than any large rust belt city.

--
"It is a consolation to the wretched to have companions in misery."
- Publius Syrus

[J.C. Watts Enslin]

On Feb 14, 9:32 am, "David V. Loewe, Jr" <davelo...@charter.net>
wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:34:46 -0500, The Henchman
>

> <whyask...@trybuddry.org> wrote:
> >> You can't compare East St. Louis and Detroit.  ESL is an adjunct to St.
> >> Louis (and St. Louis County).  Detroit is the heart of a multi-national
> >> metro area that is twice the size of the one ESL is in.
>
> >ESL is in worst shape i would imagine.  They've lost a higher percentage
> >of people from their peak population than Detroit has.
>
> Detroit has 38.5% of its peak population.  ESL has 32.8% of its peak
> population.
>
> Whoop-tee-do.
>
> >It also seems
> >their violent crimes exceed that of Detroit and may have a higher
> >acrages of urban prarie than Detroit.
>
> I seriously doubt that as Detroit has 10 times the area (143 sq mi
> versus 14.4 sq mi).
>
> And, indeed, over 38 square miles of Detroit (27% of the city) are
> vacant - far more than the total size of ESL.
>

> <http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20080810/SUB/445236701/the-urban...>

>
> >The point i was trying to make was Detroit sees itself as a poster child
> >for American ghost rust belt cities, but there are about 12 other cities
> >that have it as bad, or even bleaker than Detroit and Detroit should see
> >what successes or failures those other bleak places have had in the last
> >12 years or so.
>
> You don't compare a town of 82,366 (now 27,006) to a city of 1.85
> million (now 713,777).  It is ludicrous to try.

They aren't perfect comparisons, but they certainly are comparable.
They are two cities that have undergone massive deurbanization due to
economic circumstances. Detroit is bigger, but they are certainly
comparable.

[David Loewe, Jr.]

Not even close. For example, part of the problem with ESL is that the
freeway cut through it and cut off parts of it from other parts. That
can be a serious problem when your town is only 14.4 sq mi. Detroit
doesn't have that problem *as a city*. For Detroit, that would be a
neighborhood problem. The scale of things is so different that it is
just not comparable.

ESL is a better comp with a dead mining town like Cripple Creek CO than
it is with Detroit.
--
"Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me"
- Klaus Meine