A&M - OU in '93
Scott Harper
OU released its schedule yesterday, and it includes a game vs.
A&M on September 11 in Norman. It will be OU's second game,
but their home opener. I believe it will be A&M's second game
as well.
OU also plays TCU, Tulsa, and Texas as non-conference opponents.
Sure appears that they like those SWC teams! Are we headed
toward a merger???
And does this mean that OU is automatically disqualified from
the MNC because of their scheduling? :^)
--
Scott Harper Optical Data Systems, Inc.
sc...@ods.com 1101 E. Arapaho Road
(214) 234-6400 Richardson, TX 75081
Kevin Rodgers
>OU released its schedule yesterday, and it includes a game vs.
>A&M on September 11 in Norman. It will be OU's second game,
>but their home opener. I believe it will be A&M's second game
>as well.
>
>OU also plays TCU, Tulsa, and Texas as non-conference opponents.
>Sure appears that they like those SWC teams!
Colorado plays Texas and Baylor in '93, Texas in '94, then A&M in '95
and '98.
>Are we headed
>toward a merger???
Yes, but not any time soon:
[Reprinted from the Denver Post without permission. Comments in
brackets are mine.]
Courtship of the Big 8
SWC comes calling at convention
By John Henderson
If athletic director John David Crow had his way, this week's NCAA
Convention would end Wednesday in Dallas with Colorado a member of the
Northern Division and his Texas A&M Aggies members of the Southern
Division. He knows of a grand proposal he hopes the presidents of the
Big Eight and Southwest conferences would consider when they meet. It
won't happen this week. It may not happen for a while.
When Southwest Conference presidents begin their ballyhooed courtship
of the Big Eight, nothing more may come of it than a few home-and-home
football games. "I'd be astonished if we moved very quickly to combine
the two conferences," Colorado president Judith Albino said. "But I
think we've gone a little bit beyond conversations that began two or
three years ago about more scheduling of the two conferences. It's to
the point of asking what ways can the two conferences work together to
enhance contracts and TV positioning."
If you picture a potential SWC-Big Eight merger as a marriage, then
Wednesday's meeting would be a first date. With the Southeastern
Conference expanded to 12 teams and the Big Ten (plus one) whispering
about adding a 12th, the Big Eight and SWC are at least taking some
early steps toward a possible merger.
"The time is not right now," Texas Christian athletic director Frank
Windegger said, "but I think it's around the corner."
Presidents and athletic directors of both conferences agree that the
first order of business is to increase scheduling for a more attractive
TV package. The CFA's TV contract runs out in 1995. "The Southwest
Conference has 7 percent of the sets and the Big Eight has 7 percent,"
said Southern Methodist president A. Kenneth Pye, chairman of the
Southwest Conference presidents committee. "If we bargain with 14
percent, we're in better position to deal with Raycom and others. We
can go into CFA negotiations with 16 teams and in better position to
deal as a larger conference than if we were separate."
Crow says they should go one step further and play league games
against each other. "I don't know what good we're going to do," Crow
said. "let's get together and play each other for some reason."
Crow has an idea. Two years ago an outside consultant attended a
Southwest Conference meeting and presented a scheduling proposal. It
would work something like this: Each Southwest Conference school would
play five games within its conference and two crossover games against
Big Eight teams. Those would count in the standings. The crossover
opponents would be determined by a power rating over, say, the last five
years. So a Kansas, which placed third in the Big Eight this year,
could possibly play a Texas. [Kansas' finish this year was noticeably
better than their average over the past five years, while Texas' was
worse. I think it more likely that the top three matchups would be
Nebraska-A&M, Colorado-Texas, and Oklahoma-Baylor/Houston.]
The two league (or possibly division) winners would meet for a title
similar to the SEC's inaugural game in December. That game produced
$500,000 for each of the 12 schools. [Does anyone believe a Big 8-SWC
bowl would bring as much money as the SEC championship game? Neither of
these conferences has matched the SEC in conference strength ratings
lately. And do the schools realize that less money divided by more
teams means they'd get less than that magic half-million?]
"We need to have opponents that push buttons on all our former
students to come down here and see the game," Crow said. "It will push
the button if the games meant something toward a championship." [Read:
SWC fans are apathetic, whether it's a top SWC team playing a top Big 8
team or a middle-of-the pack SWC team playing a middle-of-the-pack Big 8
team. Didn't the ACC-Big East basketball challenge maintain its
popularity until it was cancelled?]
In basketball, each team would play four "league" games against the
other conference. the nonrevenue sports would play only within its
league but play the winner of the other league in a championship match.
[During the summer, the Big Eight basketball coaches voted 8-0 against a
possible merger. Oklahoma State coach Eddie Sutton cited poor SWC
attendance.]
"I'd see that as the only true way of getting a schedule alliance,"
Crow said. "That to me is the most plausible solution to the two
conferences."
This is just one of the many proposals that could fly across the
table. It also may be one of the many that fly right off. Some aren't
too crazy about having an SEC-style championship game, regardless of the
revenue. "When you've got the Big Eight's lock on the Orange Bowl and
the Southwest Conference's lock on the Cotton Bowl, a merger could mean
a playoff to see who goes to each bowl," said Baylor AD Grant Teaff, who
recently retired as football coach. "The bowls won't be happy taking
the losing team. None of that fits."
But steps must be taken soon if the college football puzzle continues
changing parts. "You know and I know the Big Ten is going after either
Missouri or Nebraska," Windegger said. "They've got to expand. If more
dominoes fall, hypothetically [metaphorically?], at least we'll be
prepared to do something instead of waiting."
Officials in the Big Eight agree. They just don't see it happening
so soon they have to jump into bed with each other in a merger. "The
Big Ten won't expand or even talk about expanding for two to three
years," said Kansas State president Jon Wefald, chairman of the big
Eight presidents committee. "Some other CEOs told me that they've
talked to the Big Ten and, if they added a 12th, it would be likely in
the East: Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt. If you're driving to Penn State, why
not get a school not far away?" [Because college teams don't go on road
trips, they travel once a week.]
Talks of Texas going to the Pac-10 and Texas A&M going to the SEC,
which helped launch moves toward an alliance with the Big Eight, have
cooled. Also, the Southwest Conference is interviewing commissioner
candidates and the leading candidate is reportedly Orange Bowl executive
director Steve Hatchell. He not only works with the Big Eight every
year, but he's a graduate of Colorado. That's a pretty strong
cross-conference tie.
"For Texas and Texas A&M to go, it would take a move from the state
legislature," Windegger said. [Really? I thought that was just an
r.s.f.c rumor.] "And there are a lot of lawyers in the legislature who
are graduates of Texas Tech, Baylor and SMU."
So if Texas and Texas A&M can hold onto their cowboy hats and the Big
Ten just concentrates on working an "11" into its logo, the Big Eight
and Southwest can get started on what could be a beautiful relationship.
It just may take a while to get to know each other. The formal
courtship begins Wednesday.
"I can't see anything bad coming from it," Teaff said. "The only
thing could be good."
--
Kevin Rodgers ke...@traffic.den.mmc.com
Martin Marietta MS A16401 (303) 790-3971
116 Inverness Dr. East
Englewood CO 80112 USA GO BUFFS!
Brooks Kerry Rownd
to watch over the next few years. Who might defect to the
Big10? It would be cute to see Missouri, Nebraska, and
Iowa State all go to make it the Huge14. The rest of the
southern teams might merge with the SWC. Hardly likely,
but Nebraska used to play teams like Minnesota, Wisconsin
and Illinois regularly way back when and it'd be nice to
see from my point of view. I don't have much interest in
Texas teams - NU apparently opens with two next year -
and I doubt I'd ever live in Texas to see the games. All
three conferences need a boost in football, though, and
need some sort of plan to attract more interest before
they fall behind. ???
====-----=-----=-----=-----=-----====-----=-----==-----=-----==-----=-----====
Brooks Kerry Rownd \/ || 1-'Bama 5-Georg 9-TexAM 13-Tenne 17-Hawii
bkrrrrr /\ || 2-Miami 6-Syrac 10-Stan 14-Color 18-WshSt
bro...@ast1.spa.umn.edu __/__\__ || 3-FlaSt 7-Michi 11-Wash 15-OhioS 19-NCStU
(128.101.221.1) / \ || 4-NotrD 8-UFlor 12-Nebr 16-Missi 20-NCaro
====-----=-----=-----=-----=-----====-----=-----==-----=-----==-----=-----====
CJohn Mace
>similar to the SEC's inaugural game in December. That game produced
>$500,000 for each of the 12 schools.
(detached comment)
[Does anyone believe a Big 8-SWC
>bowl would bring as much money as the SEC championship game? Neither of
>these conferences has matched the SEC in conference strength ratings
>lately. And do the schools realize that less money divided by more
>teams means they'd get less than that magic half-million?]
(question about attached comment)
What does conference strength ratings have to do with money for the
championship game? I think the attention of the game could be at least
as attractive as the SEC game with the SWC rep being Texas/TAMU and
the Big 8 team being OK/Neb/Col. In many cases moreso, as this game
could be advertised as a semi-cross-sectional game, not some game in
the lower right side of the map...
>
> "We need to have opponents that push buttons on all our former
>students to come down here and see the game," Crow said. "It will push
>the button if the games meant something toward a championship."
(another detached comment)
[Read:
>SWC fans are apathetic, whether it's a top SWC team playing a top Big 8
>team or a middle-of-the pack SWC team playing a middle-of-the-pack Big 8
>team. Didn't the ACC-Big East basketball challenge maintain its
>popularity until it was cancelled?]
(another question about detached comment)
This is the biggest pile of bunk outside of brown gravy on CFS! The
SWC fans are apathetic at the "top SWC school playing the top Big 8
school"????? When was the last time that the Texas-Oklahoma game
or the Texas-Texas A&M game not be a sellout/near sellout? Hell,
when was the last time that Texas and Oklahoma both won their
respective conferences in the same year? This simply is not true. The
apathetic attendance is not at Texas and TAMU, its at the smaller
schools and UH, in the large professional markets. This is the beef
that Texas and TAMU have for getting out of the conference.
>
> In basketball, each team would play four "league" games against the
>other conference. the nonrevenue sports would play only within its
>league but play the winner of the other league in a championship match.
>[During the summer, the Big Eight basketball coaches voted 8-0 against a
>possible merger. Oklahoma State coach Eddie Sutton cited poor SWC
>attendance.]
This is a valid point... But there has to be some sacrifice. If there
is no action and Texas and Colorado decide to go to the pac-12, where
does that leave the Big 8 and the SWC??? That's right, 2 more Big West
conferences. The SWC does have great track and baseball programs to
offer in exchange. I think a merger of the SWC and the Big 8 in
baseball would be great! We could conceivably (sp?) put 5 of the
top 10 baseball teams on the field!
>
> "I'd see that as the only true way of getting a schedule alliance,"
>Crow said. "That to me is the most plausible solution to the two
>conferences."
>
>Kevin Rodgers ke...@traffic.den.mmc.com
>Martin Marietta MS A16401 (303) 790-3971
>116 Inverness Dr. East
>Englewood CO 80112 USA GO BUFFS!
cmuck
Paul Conditt
> [Read:
>>SWC fans are apathetic, whether it's a top SWC team playing a top Big 8
>>team or a middle-of-the pack SWC team playing a middle-of-the-pack Big 8
>>team. Didn't the ACC-Big East basketball challenge maintain its
>>popularity until it was cancelled?]
>
>(another question about detached comment)
>This is the biggest pile of bunk outside of brown gravy on CFS! The
>SWC fans are apathetic at the "top SWC school playing the top Big 8
>school"????? When was the last time that the Texas-Oklahoma game
>or the Texas-Texas A&M game not be a sellout/near sellout? Hell,
>when was the last time that Texas and Oklahoma both won their
>respective conferences in the same year? This simply is not true. The
>apathetic attendance is not at Texas and TAMU, its at the smaller
>schools and UH, in the large professional markets. This is the beef
>that Texas and TAMU have for getting out of the conference.
Be careful when you talk about "apathetic attendance". I seem to recall
a couple of games where there was nowhere near a capacity crowd at A&M
(the Louisville game, the TCU game). Granted, these were not big-draw
games, but I am surprised that Louisville didn't draw more since it was
nationally televised. Also, the attendance at Texas Tech, in the big
professional market of Lubbock, America :), has actually risen by an average
of about 6000 this past season. No, it's still not a big number, somewhere
around 37,000, but there have been several sellouts - UT, OU, and Baylor.
UT has a hard time filling up the stadium except for big games like A&M
or Tech. Your point is well-taken, however, in instances like the UT-TCU
and UT-Baylor games, where even in those small stadiums, there wasn't
a sellout. I think the only conclusion we can draw from this is that
the big games sell out and the less meaningful games don't. It would
seem that a Big8-SWC championship game would be considered a big game
and would probably start a good new rivalry.
>>
>> In basketball, each team would play four "league" games against the
>>other conference. the nonrevenue sports would play only within its
>>league but play the winner of the other league in a championship match.
>>[During the summer, the Big Eight basketball coaches voted 8-0 against a
>>possible merger. Oklahoma State coach Eddie Sutton cited poor SWC
>>attendance.]
>
>This is a valid point... But there has to be some sacrifice. If there
>is no action and Texas and Colorado decide to go to the pac-12, where
>does that leave the Big 8 and the SWC??? That's right, 2 more Big West
>conferences. The SWC does have great track and baseball programs to
>offer in exchange. I think a merger of the SWC and the Big 8 in
>baseball would be great! We could conceivably (sp?) put 5 of the
>top 10 baseball teams on the field!
Let's face it,the SWC just can't compete on a national level in men's
b-ball yet. But, in addition to track and baseball, the SWC sports 2
women's hoops teams in the top 20 - Tech and UT. And lest we forget,
the Texas Tech wind-surfing team is second-to-none. Now you may think
that this wind surfing is done on the water, but since there is no water
in West Texas, it's done on dry land. Interesting sport. ESPN should be
carrying it in the 3 a.m. time slot soon. :)
>
>>
>> "I'd see that as the only true way of getting a schedule alliance,"
>>Crow said. "That to me is the most plausible solution to the two
>>conferences."
>>
>>Kevin Rodgers ke...@traffic.den.mmc.com
>>Martin Marietta MS A16401 (303) 790-3971
>>116 Inverness Dr. East
>>Englewood CO 80112 USA GO BUFFS!
>
>cmuck
===============================================================================
Paul Conditt Internet: con...@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
Applied Research Phone: (512) 835-3086 FAX: (512) 835-3416/3259
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BTW, for you music buffs, Robert Earl is an Aggie (or at least from
College Station) and the song is sung by a flat-lander, Joe Ely.
Bill Dostalik
>
>OU released its schedule yesterday, and it includes a game vs.
>A&M on September 11 in Norman. It will be OU's second game,
>but their home opener. I believe it will be A&M's second game
>as well.
>
>OU also plays TCU, Tulsa, and Texas as non-conference opponents.
>Sure appears that they like those SWC teams! Are we headed
>toward a merger???
From what I read in the DMN, they're saying no merger, but perhaps
an alliance, whatever that means. Fine with me, at least the DMN
will cover those games adequately.
>And does this mean that OU is automatically disqualified from
>the MNC because of their scheduling? :^)
Unfortunately, that is likely a moot question for '93. They put
the CU game right after the tejas game, and KU right after CU,
AGAIN. Of course, stranger things have happened...
And now that Coker is gone (bye!), maybe we won't be so predictable.
Word has it we're looking at Larry Smith's offensive coord, and
Missippi State's coordinator to replace Coker. It can't be any
worse than Coker. Nice guy, but pre-dictable.
>Scott Harper Optical Data Systems, Inc.
OOOO
O O =================================== | Bill Dostalik
O U O U Oklahoma Sooners | dost...@utdallas.edu
O U O U National College Football Champions | Dept. of Physics
OOOO U 1950 1955 1956 1974 1975 1985 | Univ. of Okla. @ Dallas
U U =================================== |
UUUU | "Oh, yeah?" "Yeah."
Scott Harper
How do you dedicated alumni get tickets to OU football games? I ask this
because I have heard (my aunt lives in Norman, teaches at the U.) that
tickets to home OU games are very hard to come by. For A&M, they send
out a ticket order form in the Spring sometime, and you can order tickets
to home games from the U. at that time. However, some of the away games
cannot be ordered in this manner, and if tickets really are that tight at
OU, I may not be able to order them...
Is this how you get tickets to individual games at OU? If so, would one
of you be willing to order a few extra for this Aggie? We might even be
able to arrange a friendly wager or something.... :^)
Email responses would probably be best.
--
Scott Harper Optical Data Systems, Inc.
MILLER, JIMMY A.
> In article sc...@ods.com (Scott Harper) writes:
>
> >And does this mean that OU is automatically disqualified from
> >the MNC because of their scheduling? :^)
>
> Actually, they've been disqualified for the last four years! = )
> Damn, who do I root for in this game???
> Anyway, congratulations aggies for scheduling a worthy non-confernece
> opponent.
Be nice to get Miami in the Kickoff Classic, too. But that's all up in the
air.
semper fi,
Jammer Jim Miller
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
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Sidney W. Kitchel
>Maybe some of you Sooner-or-Later fans can help me... Bill? Sid?
>How do you dedicated alumni get tickets to OU football games? I ask this
>because I have heard (my aunt lives in Norman, teaches at the U.) that
>tickets to home OU games are very hard to come by. For A&M, they send
Well, I live in Bloomington, Indiana, and don't get to many Norman
games anymore. My understanding is that in the last couple of years.
OU is getting like t.u. has been for years, i.e. not all home games
are sold out. Back when it was tough to get tickets, I once went to a
game by buying from the visiting team's athletic ticket office.
However, you are talking aTm and that will be a tough ticket, I'm sure.
>out a ticket order form in the Spring sometime, and you can order tickets
>to home games from the U. at that time. However, some of the away games
>cannot be ordered in this manner, and if tickets really are that tight at
>OU, I may not be able to order them...
>Is this how you get tickets to individual games at OU? If so, would one
>of you be willing to order a few extra for this Aggie? We might even be
>able to arrange a friendly wager or something.... :^)
I'd be plenty glad to accomodate an aggie. I fully support a
resumption of our series. But I don't get the forms you have in mind.
Sorry!!
soONEr bred!!!,
(wishing you good luck
-- in getting tickets,
that is),
--Sid
--
Sidney W. Kitchel kit...@cs.indiana.edu, kit...@dpsi.com
Data Parallel Systems, Inc. ============|| DPSI ||===============
4617 E. Morningside Drive (812) 334-8100
Bloomington, Indiana, 47408 USA FAX: (812) 334-8121
Michael
Well, students I believe can purchase tickets in advance at OU. I had a
friend purchase tickets to the OU/USC game last year and he didn't have too
much of a problem. If you know someone at OU, try this route. While OU's
attendance isn't as high as it has been in a couple of years, OU/TAMU will
most likely be a tough ticket to come by. There are always people trying
to unload their tickets outside the stadium.
Mike
Kevin Rodgers
>>bowl would bring as much money as the SEC championship game? Neither of
>>these conferences has matched the SEC in conference strength ratings
>>lately. And do the schools realize that less money divided by more
>>teams means they'd get less than that magic half-million?]
>
>championship game? I think the attention of the game could be at least
>as attractive as the SEC game with the SWC rep being Texas/TAMU and
>the Big 8 team being OK/Neb/Col. In many cases moreso, as this game
>could be advertised as a semi-cross-sectional game, not some game in
>the lower right side of the map...
I think conference strength would be a major consideration to the
potential TV network broadcasters and corporate sponsors; do you think a
WAC-Big West playoff would bring in as much as the SEC or proposed
SWC-Big 8 title games?
>> "We need to have opponents that push buttons on all our former
>>students to come down here and see the game," Crow said. "It will push
>>the button if the games meant something toward a championship."
>
>>[Read:
>>SWC fans are apathetic, whether it's a top SWC team playing a top Big 8
>>team or a middle-of-the pack SWC team playing a middle-of-the-pack Big 8
>>team. Didn't the ACC-Big East basketball challenge maintain its
>>popularity until it was cancelled?]
>
>This is the biggest pile of bunk outside of brown gravy on CFS! The
>SWC fans are apathetic at the "top SWC school playing the top Big 8
>school"????? When was the last time that the Texas-Oklahoma game
>or the Texas-Texas A&M game not be a sellout/near sellout? Hell,
>when was the last time that Texas and Oklahoma both won their
>respective conferences in the same year? This simply is not true. The
>apathetic attendance is not at Texas and TAMU, its at the smaller
>schools and UH, in the large professional markets. This is the beef
>that Texas and TAMU have for getting out of the conference.
I didn't say that all SWC fans are apathetic. Remember, that was A&M's
AD who was quoted; I said that I believe Crow himself is concerned about
a lack of fan interest. I just used the word "apathy" to get under your
skin :-)
Your note about the discrepancy in attendance between UT and A&M and the
other schools is well-taken, as is your allusion to the excitement
generated by the Texas-Oklahoma game, regardless of their respective
conference standings.
>> In basketball, each team would play four "league" games against the
>>other conference. the nonrevenue sports would play only within its
>>league but play the winner of the other league in a championship match.
>>[During the summer, the Big Eight basketball coaches voted 8-0 against a
>>possible merger. Oklahoma State coach Eddie Sutton cited poor SWC
>>attendance.]
>
>This is a valid point... But there has to be some sacrifice. If there
>is no action and Texas and Colorado decide to go to the pac-12, where
>does that leave the Big 8 and the SWC??? That's right, 2 more Big West
>conferences. The SWC does have great track and baseball programs to
>offer in exchange. I think a merger of the SWC and the Big 8 in
>baseball would be great! We could conceivably (sp?) put 5 of the
>top 10 baseball teams on the field!
You make an excellent point, that each conference may have to take on
some lesser competition in one sport in order to gain stature in
another. I think the Big 8 basketball coaches were just trying to take
a hard negotiating position before the actual discussions begin, and
will try to extract concessions of some type from the SWC. With the
SWC's track and baseball and the Big 8's basketball and wrestling (when
will Colorado resume a program???), each has something to gain from the
other.
Other strengths, in women's sports: SWC basketball + Colorado, Big 8
volleyball.
I don't follow college baseball; who are the 5 best teams you mean?
--
CJohn Mace
>
>I don't follow college baseball; who are the 5 best teams you mean?
>--
Well, Texas/Texas A&M/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State seem to be ranked all
the time, all we would need is 1 of the other 12 to have a good season.
:-)
Justin Frederich
> Be nice to get Miami in the Kickoff Classic, too. But that's all up in the
>air.
I'd love to see the Canes in it but coach Erickson has been steadfast in
his dislike of pre-season games and (so far) refuses to agree to play one.
Miami's only time in the Kickoff Classic was vs Auburn in 1984.
Auburn had finished 3rd and Miami 1st in the 1983 polls and the
KC ended up with Miami on top 20-18. I thought it was a great game
and would like to see Miami play in another one but Dennis now has a
contract that goes to the end of the century so chances are slim. :-(
Justin Frederich
Chris S. Robbins
>And does this mean that OU is automatically disqualified from
>the MNC because of their scheduling? :^)
Actually, they've been disqualified for the last four years! = )
Damn, who do I root for in this game???
Anyway, congratulations aggies for scheduling a worthy non-confernece
opponent.
Hook 'em!!!
-Chris
Current Roadrunner winning streak- 2 Next loser- Southwaste Tex. St., Sat.
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