Jolly Old England

[CheeseHusker dos]

This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are
just....standing by. WTF? A dude gets run over in the street and
then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
by?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html?ICO=most_read_module

[NapalmHeart]

"CheeseHusker dos" <jonr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:825390a3-5b83-47f1...@z10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

This is what happens when you disarm and deball a society.

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 23, 9:24 am, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are
> just....standing by.  WTF?  A dude gets run over in the street and
> then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
> by?
>

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-m...

No guns.

It took the cops, the cops with guns, not the normal cops, 20 minutes
to arrive.

Disappointed someone didn't run them down with their car.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 07:03:48 -0700 (PDT), "the_andr...@yahoo.com"
<the_andr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 23, 9:24=A0am, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are

>> just....standing by. =A0WTF? =A0A dude gets run over in the street and

>> then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
>> by?
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-m...
>
>No guns.
>
>It took the cops, the cops with guns, not the normal cops, 20 minutes
>to arrive.
>
>Disappointed someone didn't run them down with their car.

This must be Gysin's real world that he wants me to join. The only
meat cleaver I have is one that my mom had about 80 years ago - but it
is well made and really sharp.

Hugh

[xyzzy]

On May 23, 9:48 am, "NapalmHeart" <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
> "CheeseHusker dos" <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>
> news:825390a3-5b83-47f1...@z10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are
> > just....standing by.  WTF?  A dude gets run over in the street and
> > then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
> > by?
>

> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-m...

>
> This is what happens when you disarm and deball a society.

Right, think how much safer Trayvon Martin would be today....

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

...or the kid who shot him in self defense.

[Eric Ramon]

On May 23, 10:11 am, "the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com"

Bush did it! Nazis! (as long as we're moving the conversation
elsewhere and quickly)

[CheeseHusker dos]

On May 23, 9:03 am, "the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com"

The dude stands there and gets videotaped while holding a bloody
cleaver in his hands

he STANDS there to get videotaped

and no one does nothing

what a travesty

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

GRASSY NOLL!!! GRASSY NOLL!!!!

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

baaaah baaaah baaaah.

[J. Hugh Sullivan]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:58:41 -0700 (PDT), CheeseHusker dos
<jonr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 23, 9:03=A0am, "the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com"
><the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> On May 23, 9:24=A0am, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are

>> > just....standing by. =A0WTF? =A0A dude gets run over in the street and

>> > then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
>> > by?
>>
>> >http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-m...
>>
>> No guns.
>>
>> It took the cops, the cops with guns, not the normal cops, 20 minutes
>> to arrive.
>>
>> Disappointed someone didn't run them down with their car.
>
>The dude stands there and gets videotaped while holding a bloody
>cleaver in his hands
>
>he STANDS there to get videotaped
>
>and no one does nothing
>
>what a travesty

As in 1917 and 1941 the English have a long history of waiting for
Americans to solve their problems.

Hugh

[Damon Hynes, Cyclone Ranger]

On May 23, 2:14 pm, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:

> As in 1917 and 1941 the English have a long history of waiting for
> Americans to solve their problems.
>
> Hugh

A few 1911s would ficks that, Inshallah.

[NapalmHeart]

"xyzzy" <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b0859799-aabe-4f34...@r3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He would have been a lot safer if he hadn't chose the 'thug life'.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Disculpa Senora NapalmHeart, pero did you really mime the following on
5/23/2013 8:21 PM???

Indeed. Those damn "thug life" hoodies...who can blame someone for
wasting him?

--
There lived a sage in days of yore
And he a handsome pigtail wore
He wondered much and sorrowed more
Because it hung behind him

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Disculpa Senora Ctrl€/Alt€/Del€®, pero did you really mime the following
on 5/23/2013 8:04 PM???

> On Thu, 23 May 2013 07:30:58 -0700, xyzzy wrote:
>
>> On May 23, 9:48 am, "NapalmHeart" <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
>>> "CheeseHusker dos" <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>

>>> news:825390a3-5b83-47f1-
> a121-205...@z10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

>>>
>>>> This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are
>>>> just....standing by. WTF? A dude gets run over in the street and
>>>> then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
>>>> by?
>>>
>>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-
> m...
>>>
>>> This is what happens when you disarm and deball a society.
>>
>> Right, think how much safer Trayvon Martin would be today....
>

> Trayvon Martin wasn't cut down by a vehicle in broad daylight and then
> have 2 men carve at his neck and vocal cords and spine to try to behead
> him while groups of bystanders looked on.
>
> Trayvon Martin was hanging around with some Skittles on a rainy night
> where several homes had already been burglarized. This English soldier
> didn't decide to start beating on Muslims just due to their creed.
>
> This soldier didn't belligerently turn on a man that was simply asking
> someone a question and decide that no wetback block captain was going to
> question him and start beating on him.
>
> And, most importantly, this soldier wasn't 8 years old like Trayvon was.
>

Heh!

[Hoover]

On May 23, 9:24 am, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are
> just....standing by.  WTF?  A dude gets run over in the street and
> then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
> by?
>

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-m...

They were all at tea time, what do you expect?

[Hoover]

On May 23, 10:30 am, xyzzy <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

you mean the thug?

[Hoover]

On May 23, 10:30 am, xyzzy <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

you mean the thug?

[corneliusc...@gmail.com]

My thoughts:

Dudes were fucking mental.  The fact they were raised here is terrifying (much more than their actual actions).

True Muslim leaders are rightfully outraged, as are all the rest of us.  Those following true Islam must bear their share of the weight in eliminating those, that in an evil manipulation of their religion, bring shame upon it.

Is the end result of yesterday any worse for happening in a disarmed society?  We have the suspects in custody (no different I might add, to the stated, only half successful, mission of the authorities in Boston).  Nobody else was hurt.  Brave people (all seemingly women, interesting side chat on the implications of that) stood up, unarmed, and diffused the situation.  To me, that sounds like a quite a good result. 

[CheeseHusker dos]

'cept for the dude who got run over and chopped with a bloody meat
cleaver.

Pretty safe to say the dudes were mental - why else stick around the
crime scene like that?

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 24, 6:00 am, corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:
> My thoughts:
>
> Dudes were fucking mental.  The fact they were raised here is terrifying (much more than their actual actions).
>
> True Muslim leaders are rightfully outraged, as are all the rest of us.  Those following true Islam must bear their share of the weight in eliminating those, that in an evil manipulation of their religion, bring shame upon it.

Not sure what you would expect them to do.

Mullah#1 - Kill the infidels!

Mullah#2 - Dude, stop with the kill the infidels act.

Mullah#1 - INFIDEL!

[CheeseHusker dos]

BTW - good note on the women and also how it was a woman cop who
finally shot the assholes

[Cornelius Cornelius]

On May 24, 1:51 pm, "the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com"

Yes, I'm sure that is the entirety of what could be intelligently
discussed.

[Cornelius Cornelius]

Honest question - do you think if this had happened outside Ft.
Benning an armed citizen would have diffused the situation before they
started hacking? I am 100% certain an armed citizen could not have
stopped the initial vehicular attack, so it would have had to be after
that occured.

>
> Pretty safe to say the dudes were mental - why else stick around the
> crime scene like that?

M

[CheeseHusker dos]

On May 24, 8:01 am, Cornelius Cornelius

Before the hacking? Absolutely. Even unarmed. If I see a dude get
run over, I'm right there trying to help. Period. And if he's
getting attacked afterwards, no change - that's just instinct.

[Cornelius Cornelius]

Do we know how quickly the hit with the car progressed to hacking?
There may have been time only to start shooting. That's not really
what I want on public street corners.

[CheeseHusker dos]

On May 24, 8:10 am, Cornelius Cornelius

> what I want on public street corners.- Hide quoted text -


Well - judging by the pics, there was time for the injured man to move
from the lightpost to the middle of the street and for two guys to get
out fot he car and start hacking. So there was clearly time to act.
It's just instinct.

As there was time for the guy to stand around being videotaped -
VIDEOTAPED!

And time then for a couple women to come up and try their luck

20 minutes until the armed cops got there.

Still amazed the perps just hung around

And you do realize I'm not asking why no one shot them - I get that
it's England and y'all don't have guns (altho the perps did). I'm
wondering wtf no one tried to take these fuckers down and instead just
gathered on the corner and watched the perps brag and strut. If they
presented that great of a threat, I sure wouldn't be just hanging out
there

The actions of the crowd gathered just confound me

[Cornelius Cornelius]

I honestly think there is a very different mindset amongst the British
public compared to American. The British mindset is to diffuse the
situation, not escalate it. After the killing, I think a more or less
perfect response occured. What happens when someone tries to play
hero, fails, and then the phsycos start on someone else. What is
gained?

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

On 2013-05-24, corneliusc...@gmail.com <corneliusc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My thoughts:
>

> Dudes were fucking mental. ?The fact they were raised here is

> terrifying (much more than their actual actions).
>
> True Muslim leaders are rightfully outraged, as are all the rest of

> us. ?Those following true Islam must bear their share of the weight

> in eliminating those, that in an evil manipulation of their
> religion, bring shame upon it.
>
> Is the end result of yesterday any worse for happening in a disarmed

> society? ?We have the suspects in custody (no different I might add,

> to the stated, only half successful, mission of the authorities in

> Boston). ?Nobody else was hurt. ?Brave people (all seemingly women,

> interesting side chat on the implications of that) stood up,

> unarmed, and diffused the situation. ?To me, that sounds like a
> quite a good result.?

Sure, if you like the image of bloodthirsty pricks confidently
crowing over their misdeed for 20 minutes instead of lying bleeding
on the street. And if you like the image of people walking cowed as
Muslim youths swagger down the street, yelling at women that are
dressed in a way they don't approve.

--
I don't want to get to the end of my life and find I have just
lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as
well. -- Diane Ackerman

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

On 2013-05-24, Cornelius Cornelius <corneliusc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 12:43?pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> On May 24, 5:00?am, corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > My thoughts:
>>

>> > Dudes were fucking mental. ?The fact they were raised here is terrifying (much more than their actual actions).
>>
>> > True Muslim leaders are rightfully outraged, as are all the rest of us. ?Those following true Islam must bear their share of the weight in eliminating those, that in an evil manipulation of their religion, bring shame upon it.
>>

>> > Is the end result of yesterday any worse for happening in a disarmed society? ?We have the suspects in custody (no different I might add, to the stated, only half successful, mission of the authorities in Boston). ?Nobody else was hurt. ?Brave people (all seemingly women, interesting side chat on the implications of that) stood up, unarmed, and diffused the situation. ?To me, that sounds like a quite a good result.

>>
>> 'cept for the dude who got run over and chopped with a bloody meat
>> cleaver.
>
> Honest question - do you think if this had happened outside Ft.
> Benning an armed citizen would have diffused the situation before they
> started hacking? I am 100% certain an armed citizen could not have
> stopped the initial vehicular attack, so it would have had to be after
> that occured.

Was the guy dead at that point? If not, then the two assholes
might have been bleeding on the street instead of the poor victim.

Islam is a cancer upon the world. And until it finds its Martin Luther moment,
it will be.

--
The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and
dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if
it had nothing else in the universe to do. -- Galileo

[CheeseHusker dos]

On May 24, 8:41 am, Cornelius Cornelius

> gained?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

They get shot. Like what happened when they escalated with the cops.

[xyzzy]

On May 24, 9:01 am, Cornelius Cornelius

This whole discussion is a typical example of changing one variable
and assuming all the others stay the same, which is a fallacy.

For example, if this had happened in a more armed society, like ours,
the perps probably would have been armed with guns and not knives and
killed a lot more people before the theoretical concealed carry NRA
member American citizen came along to calmly put them down, like we
know has happened in all the other mass murders in this country. For
example, at Ft. Hood, lots of armed citizens around there, which is
why that guy was dropped after the first or second casualty... right?

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 24, 9:10 am, Cornelius Cornelius

Says the guy not being hacked to death.

[CheeseHusker dos]

> why that guy was dropped after the first or second casualty... right?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Question for you - had you been there in England - would you have just
stood there and watched?

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

On 2013-05-24, CheeseHusker dos <jonr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 8:41?am, Cornelius Cornelius
><corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 24, 3:26?pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On May 24, 8:10?am, Cornelius Cornelius
>>
>> > <corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > On May 24, 3:08?pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > On May 24, 8:01?am, Cornelius Cornelius
>>
>> > > > <corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > On May 24, 12:43?pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>
>> > > > > > On May 24, 5:00?am, corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > > > > > > My thoughts:
>>

>> > > > > > > Dudes were fucking mental. ?The fact they were raised here is terrifying (much more than their actual actions).
>>
>> > > > > > > True Muslim leaders are rightfully outraged, as are all the rest of us. ?Those following true Islam must bear their share of the weight in eliminating those, that in an evil manipulation of their religion, bring shame upon it.
>>

>> > > > > > > Is the end result of yesterday any worse for happening in a disarmed society? ?We have the suspects in custody (no different I might add, to the stated, only half successful, mission of the authorities in Boston). ?Nobody else was hurt. ?Brave people (all seemingly women, interesting side chat on the implications of that) stood up, unarmed, and diffused the situation. ?To me, that sounds like a quite a good result.

>>
>> > > > > > 'cept for the dude who got run over and chopped with a bloody meat
>> > > > > > cleaver.
>>
>> > > > > Honest question - do you think if this had happened outside Ft.
>> > > > > Benning an armed citizen would have diffused the situation before they

>> > > > > started hacking? ?I am 100% certain an armed citizen could not have

>> > > > > stopped the initial vehicular attack, so it would have had to be after
>> > > > > that occured.
>>

>> > > > Before the hacking? ?Absolutely. ?Even unarmed. ?If I see a dude get
>> > > > run over, I'm right there trying to help. ?Period. ?And if he's

>> > > > getting attacked afterwards, no change - that's just instinct.
>>
>> > > Do we know how quickly the hit with the car progressed to hacking?

>> > > There may have been time only to start shooting. ?That's not really

>> > > what I want on public street corners.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > Well - judging by the pics, there was time for the injured man to move
>> > from the lightpost to the middle of the street and for two guys to get

>> > out fot he car and start hacking. ?So there was clearly time to act.

>> > It's just instinct.
>>
>> > As there was time for the guy to stand around being videotaped -
>> > VIDEOTAPED!
>>
>> > And time then for a couple women to come up and try their luck
>>
>> > 20 minutes until the armed cops got there.
>>
>> > Still amazed the perps just hung around
>>
>> > And you do realize I'm not asking why no one shot them - I get that

>> > it's England and y'all don't have guns (altho the perps did). ?I'm

>> > wondering wtf no one tried to take these fuckers down and instead just

>> > gathered on the corner and watched the perps brag and strut. ?If they

>> > presented that great of a threat, I sure wouldn't be just hanging out
>> > there
>>
>> > The actions of the crowd gathered just confound me
>>
>> I honestly think there is a very different mindset amongst the British

>> public compared to American. ?The British mindset is to diffuse the
>> situation, not escalate it. ?After the killing, I think a more or less
>> perfect response occured. ?What happens when someone tries to play
>> hero, fails, and then the phsycos start on someone else. ?What is

>> gained?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>

> They get shot. Like what happened when they escalated with the cops.

And this different mindset allows them to sit passively by as people
get arrested for posts on Twitter:

http://bit.ly/13Q5nnN

I am *so* glad I don't live in Britain. I like my sack filled.

--
"It is a remarkable fact that despite the worldwide expenditure of perhaps
US$50 billion since 1990, and the efforts of tens of thousands of scientists
worldwide, no human climate signal has yet been detected that is distinct
from natural variation." - Bob Carter

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 24, 11:05 am, xyzzy <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 9:01 am, Cornelius Cornelius
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 24, 12:43 pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 24, 5:00 am, corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > My thoughts:
>
> > > > Dudes were fucking mental.  The fact they were raised here is terrifying (much more than their actual actions).
>
> > > > True Muslim leaders are rightfully outraged, as are all the rest of us.  Those following true Islam must bear their share of the weight in eliminating those, that in an evil manipulation of their religion, bring shame upon it.
>
> > > > Is the end result of yesterday any worse for happening in a disarmed society?  We have the suspects in custody (no different I might add, to the stated, only half successful, mission of the authorities in Boston).  Nobody else was hurt.  Brave people (all seemingly women, interesting side chat on the implications of that) stood up, unarmed, and diffused the situation.  To me, that sounds like a quite a good result.
>
> > > 'cept for the dude who got run over and chopped with a bloody meat
> > > cleaver.
>
> > Honest question - do you think if this had happened outside Ft.
> > Benning an armed citizen would have diffused the situation before they
> > started hacking?  I am 100% certain an armed citizen could not have
> > stopped the initial vehicular attack, so it would have had to be after
> > that occured.
>
> This whole discussion is a typical example of changing one variable
> and assuming all the others stay the same, which is a fallacy.
>
> For example, if this had happened in a more armed society, like ours,
> the perps probably would have been armed with guns

They had guns.

> and not knives and
> killed a lot more people before the theoretical concealed carry NRA
> member American citizen came along to calmly put them down,  like we
> know has happened in all the other mass murders in this country.  For
> example, at Ft. Hood, lots of armed citizens around there

This is so ignorant it's embarrassing.

There are multiple instances of CCW persons stopping spree shooters
and I know you know about them.

I also know that you know it's illegal to carry a weapon on a military
installation and that it doesn't look like some front line encampment
in the movies where everyone is walking around with a rifle in their
hands.

That you make these comments with a political tinge is beneath you.

[Damon Hynes, Cyclone Ranger]

On May 24, 10:05 am, xyzzy <xyzzy.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For
> example, at Ft. Hood, lots of armed citizens around there, which is
> why that guy was dropped after the first or second casualty... right?

iirc, at Hood, the hundreds of weapons-trained Army troops were barred
by statute from carrying while on base.

The a$$hole in question was finally neutralized by a couple of rent-a-
cops. Admittedly, far beyond competent rent-a-cops, heroes by any
measure, and they have my eternal gratitude--but if the Armed Forces
were more of a killing machine and less of a social-engineering
experiment, they wouldn't have been necessary.

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 24, 8:59 am, Cornelius Cornelius

Lets use another example.

Westboro Baptist Dude: God Hates Fags

Me: Jesus said to live your neighbor

WEstboro Baptist Dude: God Hates Fags

My point is this, many people have already heard the arguments,
nonetheless, they have no desire to change because they have no intent
toward reason, only emotion.

[xyzzy]

The honest answer is that I have no idea how I would have reacted.

I can speculate... would I have personally taken on a guy with a
machete hacking someone apart... probably not. But would I have
worked with other men in the crowd to intervene? Probably.

Which would probably be the only honest answer most people can give.

[xyzzy]

On May 24, 11:19 am, "the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com"

Umm, the political tinge started early, with people claiming this
wouldn't have happened if guns were more common in the UK. I was
responding to that.

[CheeseHusker dos]

> Which would probably be the only honest answer most people can give.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Exactly - that's the point I've been trying to make all along.

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

I don't think anyone claimed it wouldn't have happened.

[Futbol Phan]

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 8:48:39 AM UTC-5, NapalmHeart wrote:
> "CheeseHusker dos" <jonr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

>
> news:825390a3-5b83-47f1...@z10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are
>
> > just....standing by. WTF? A dude gets run over in the street and
>
> > then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
>
> > by?
>
> >
>
> >
>

> > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html?ICO=most_read_module

>
>
>
> This is what happens when you disarm and deball a society.

There is an alternative view, you know. If this was in the US there would have been nothing to stop these murderer wannabes from going to a gun show, picking up a couple of semi-automatic weapons and going on a mass killing spree. All in a matter of an hour or two. No background checks (no matter how dangerous or crazy or criminal they might be, or what history they may have).

Could easily be the case that Britain's gun laws saved the lives of many people.

[Wolfie]

"Damon Hynes, Cyclone Ranger" wrote

> iirc, at Hood, the hundreds of weapons-trained Army troops were barred
> by statute from carrying while on base.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in people wanting
untrained civilians doing something the Army doesn't
allow its trained troops to do?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

On 5/24/2013 11:19 AM, the_andr...@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> I also know that you know it's illegal to carry a weapon on a military
> installation and that it doesn't look like some front line encampment
> in the movies where everyone is walking around with a rifle in their
> hands.
>

This is kind of off-topic but the above paragraph set me thinking.
Fully trained military guys whom we trust with safeguarding our country
aren't allowed to carry a weapon in their own military installation.
But we're OK with allowing any random guy to carry one concealed on his
person? Something is amiss here...

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy]

Traded freedom for safety and got neither.

--Tedward

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy]

"Zaphod Beeblebrox" <victor...@gmail.com> wrote

A clear violation of their Constitutional rights, especially if you buy into the
(bullshit) argument the 2nd only applies to the militia/army.

In other news, the SCOTUS has the right to bear arms extends to the right
to bear claws.

--Tedward

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 24, 3:21 pm, Zaphod Beeblebrox <victor.kin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes it is.

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

Those damn founding fathers were idiots.

[Wolfie]

<the_andr...@yahoo.com> wrote

SCOTUS says you have no right to carry concealed
weapons. Or open carry, for that matter.

[CheeseHusker dos]

On May 24, 2:21 pm, Zaphod Beeblebrox <victor.kin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yep.

I think it might have to do with a "logistics" issue tho - soooo many
weapons in a small space leads to issues of inventory and wide scale
theft. Perhaps.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Disculpa Senora the_andr...@yahoo.com, pero did you really mime the
following on 5/24/2013 3:53 PM???

Indeed. But I suspect we differ on what is amiss. I have a huge issue
with both. What's your gripe?

--
There lived a sage in days of yore
And he a handsome pigtail wore
He wondered much and sorrowed more
Because it hung behind him

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 24, 10:55 pm, Zaphod Beeblebrox <victor.kin...@verizon.net>
wrote:
> Disculpa Senora the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com, pero did you really mime the

> following  on 5/24/2013 3:53 PM???
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 24, 3:21 pm, Zaphod Beeblebrox <victor.kin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 5/24/2013 11:19 AM, the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >> <snip>
>
> >>> I also know that you know it's illegal to carry a weapon on a military
> >>> installation and that it doesn't look like some front line encampment
> >>> in the movies where everyone is walking around with a rifle in their
> >>> hands.
>
> >> This is kind of off-topic but the above paragraph set me thinking.
> >> Fully trained military guys whom we trust with safeguarding our country
> >> aren't allowed to carry a weapon in their own military installation.
> >> But we're OK with allowing any random guy to carry one concealed on his
> >> person?  Something is amiss here...
>
> > Yes it is.
>
> Indeed.  But I suspect we differ on what is amiss.  I have a huge issue
> with both.  What's your gripe?

Duh

[michael anderson]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:55:45 PM UTC-5, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
>
>
>
> Indeed. But I suspect we differ on what is amiss. I have a huge issue
>
> with both

of course you do. Because you have no respect for the bill of rights. You make this clear post after post. Nothing new there....

fortunately, that's not the way we play the game in the USA.

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 24, 4:16 pm, "Wolfie" <bgbdw...@gte.net> wrote:
> <the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com> wrote

The latter is incorrect.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Disculpa Senora michael anderson, pero did you really mime the following
on 5/24/2013 11:14 PM???

> On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:55:45 PM UTC-5, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Indeed. But I suspect we differ on what is amiss. I have a huge issue
>>
>> with both
>
> of course you do. Because you have no respect for the bill of rights. You make this clear post after post. Nothing new there....
>

It's most certainly not true that I have "no respect" for the Bill of
Rights. But yes, I do believe that certain parts are anachronistic and
irrelevant today.

> fortunately, that's not the way we play the game in the USA.
>

Should I say "YOU-ESS-AY" or should I say "clap, clap, clap-clap, clap?"

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Disculpa Senora the_andr...@yahoo.com, pero did you really mime the
following on 5/24/2013 11:14 PM???

Well, obviously my question was purely rhetorical.

[Wolfie]

<the_andr...@yahoo.com> wrote

Uh, no. DC v Heller says laws making "gun-free" zones
are perfectly legal under the 2nd. Obviously SCOTUS
wasn't going to make it legal for nutcases to walk into
the gallery with loaded weapons....

You have a right to keep "traditional" arms at home,
assuming you haven't forfeited the right via felony
or mental illness, etc. Other than that, it's perfectly
legal to forbid open or concealed carry, require
registration and regulate sales.

[the_andr...@yahoo.com]

On May 25, 12:11 am, "Wolfie" <bgbdw...@gte.net> wrote:
> <the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com>  wrote

That isn't what you said. You said I have no right to open carry,
which I do. I don't have an unlimited right to open carry.

[NapalmHeart]

"Futbol Phan" <sgz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d8d81f1b-c90f-4a03...@googlegroups.com...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not in MI. Also, the murderers had at least 1 handgun. So much for the
efficacy of gun laws. The bad guys had one. The decent person didn't.

[NapalmHeart]

"Cornelius Cornelius" <corneliusc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:798d8bf4-0dda-4cb5...@v3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
On May 24, 3:26 pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 8:10 am, Cornelius Cornelius
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 24, 3:08 pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 24, 8:01 am, Cornelius Cornelius

> > > Before the hacking? Absolutely. Even unarmed. If I see a dude get
> > > run over, I'm right there trying to help. Period. And if he's
> > > getting attacked afterwards, no change - that's just instinct.
>
> > Do we know how quickly the hit with the car progressed to hacking?
> > There may have been time only to start shooting. That's not really
> > what I want on public street corners.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Well - judging by the pics, there was time for the injured man to move
> from the lightpost to the middle of the street and for two guys to get
> out fot he car and start hacking. So there was clearly time to act.
> It's just instinct.
>
> As there was time for the guy to stand around being videotaped -
> VIDEOTAPED!
>
> And time then for a couple women to come up and try their luck
>
> 20 minutes until the armed cops got there.
>
> Still amazed the perps just hung around
>
> And you do realize I'm not asking why no one shot them - I get that
> it's England and y'all don't have guns (altho the perps did). I'm
> wondering wtf no one tried to take these fuckers down and instead just
> gathered on the corner and watched the perps brag and strut. If they
> presented that great of a threat, I sure wouldn't be just hanging out
> there
>
> The actions of the crowd gathered just confound me

I honestly think there is a very different mindset amongst the British
public compared to American. The British mindset is to diffuse the
situation, not escalate it. After the killing, I think a more or less
perfect response occured. What happens when someone tries to play
hero, fails, and then the phsycos start on someone else. What is
gained?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Diffuse the situation by incapacitation of the perps. Crush them with
overwhelming force with whatever means are available.

KO

[NapalmHeart]

"xyzzy" <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:af9a7db2-7a99-443f...@v9g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
On May 24, 9:01 am, Cornelius Cornelius

<corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 24, 12:43 pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 24, 5:00 am, corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > My thoughts:
>
> > > Dudes were fucking mental. The fact they were raised here is
> > > terrifying (much more than their actual actions).
>
> > > True Muslim leaders are rightfully outraged, as are all the rest
> > > of us. Those following true Islam must bear their share of the
> > > weight in eliminating those, that in an evil manipulation of their
> > > religion, bring shame upon it.
>
> > > Is the end result of yesterday any worse for happening in a
> > > disarmed society? We have the suspects in custody (no different I
> > > might add, to the stated, only half successful, mission of the
> > > authorities in Boston). Nobody else was hurt. Brave people (all
> > > seemingly women, interesting side chat on the implications of
> > > that) stood up, unarmed, and diffused the situation. To me, that
> > > sounds like a quite a good result.
>
> > 'cept for the dude who got run over and chopped with a bloody meat
> > cleaver.
>
> Honest question - do you think if this had happened outside Ft.
> Benning an armed citizen would have diffused the situation before they
> started hacking? I am 100% certain an armed citizen could not have
> stopped the initial vehicular attack, so it would have had to be after
> that occured.

This whole discussion is a typical example of changing one variable
and assuming all the others stay the same, which is a fallacy.

For example, if this had happened in a more armed society, like ours,

the perps probably would have been armed with guns and not knives and

killed a lot more people before the theoretical concealed carry NRA
member American citizen came along to calmly put them down, like we
know has happened in all the other mass murders in this country. For

example, at Ft. Hood, lots of armed citizens around there, which is
why that guy was dropped after the first or second casualty... right?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Actually, at Ft. Hood not very many people would have been armed. So
your assertion is fallacious.

[Cornelius Cornelius]

On May 26, 12:50 am, "NapalmHeart" <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote:
> "Cornelius Cornelius" <corneliuscorneliu...@gmail.com> wrote in message

I may not be making myself clear. I prefer the result that actually
happened as nobody else got hurt. Trying to incapacitate the perps,
by any means be it brute force, guns, whatever, could possibly end up
in more innocent people being hurt.

[Irish Mike]

On May 23 2013 10:24 AM, CheeseHusker dos wrote:

> This is messed up - especially how many bystanders are
> just....standing by. WTF? A dude gets run over in the street and
> then a couple guys try to behead him and people just watch and walk
> by?

We are in a long struggle against murderous muslim terrorists who are
fueled by a brutal, violent, intolerant, poisonous islamic religion.

Irish Mike

islam, winning the hearts and minds of infidels one homicide bomber at a
time.

[NapalmHeart]

"Cornelius Cornelius" <corneliusc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:f8890a38-2f9b-4d7d...@eo6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're perfectly clear. I hope I am, too. In the larger picture, if the
potential victims are at least willing to try to turn the tables on
those who would try to harm them, the perpetrators of violence will be
less willing to act in the 1st place. If you want to live in a free and
safe society the responsibility falls on all of us.

[michael anderson]

On Friday, May 24, 2013 10:31:03 PM UTC-5, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
> Disculpa Senora michael anderson, pero did you really mime the following
>
> on 5/24/2013 11:14 PM???
>
> > On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:55:45 PM UTC-5, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Indeed. But I suspect we differ on what is amiss. I have a huge issue
>
> >>
>
> >> with both
>
> >
>
> > of course you do. Because you have no respect for the bill of rights. You make this clear post after post. Nothing new there....
>
> >
>
>
>
> It's most certainly not true that I have "no respect" for the Bill of
>
> Rights. But yes, I do believe that certain parts are anachronistic and
>
> irrelevant today.

exactly...no respect. You dont get to pick which of the BOR you like, and then call the parts you don't like irrelevant. That is the definition of no respect.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Disculpa Senora michael anderson, pero did you really mime the following

on 5/26/2013 9:41 PM???

And why not, if I may ask?

> That is the definition of no respect.
>

How so?

I suppose you have no respect for the Miami Heat (the latest team that
you are knob-slobbering) because 40-year old Juwan Howard is pretty much
irrelevant to the team.

I think I've mentioned this before - you're an imbecile. Ergo, your
views don't count.

[michael anderson]

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:06:25 PM UTC-5, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
> Disculpa Senora michael anderson, pero did you really mime the following
>
> on 5/26/2013 9:41 PM???
>
> > On Friday, May 24, 2013 10:31:03 PM UTC-5, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
>
> >> Disculpa Senora michael anderson, pero did you really mime the following
>
> >>
>
> >> on 5/24/2013 11:14 PM???
>
> >>
>
> >>> On Friday, May 24, 2013 9:55:45 PM UTC-5, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> Indeed. But I suspect we differ on what is amiss. I have a huge issue
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> with both
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> of course you do. Because you have no respect for the bill of rights. You make this clear post after post. Nothing new there....
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> It's most certainly not true that I have "no respect" for the Bill of
>
> >>
>
> >> Rights. But yes, I do believe that certain parts are anachronistic and
>
> >>
>
> >> irrelevant today.
>
> >
>
> > exactly...no respect. You dont get to pick which of the BOR you like, and then call the parts you don't like irrelevant.
>
>
>
> And why not, if I may ask?

because the power behind the document applies to all of it. That is pretty obvious....

>
>
>
> > That is the definition of no respect.
>
> >
>
>
>
> How so?

because calling something irrelevant is not respecting it.

>
>
>
> I suppose you have no respect for the Miami Heat (the latest team that
>
> you are knob-slobbering) because 40-year old Juwan Howard is pretty much
>
> irrelevant to the team.

and yet when the heat win the title I still have to acknowledge Juwon Howard(if on the roster) as a member of the title winning team.

>
>
>
> I think I've mentioned this before - you're an imbecile. Ergo, your
>
> views don't count.

not sure about measuring what views 'count' or not in a internet forum, but I do have a pretty good idea on what counts in real life....and fortunately we live in a society where gun rights abound and extremists like yourself can't do anything about it......that is what counts on this matter.

[alic...@yahoo.com]

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 3:15:03 AM UTC-4, Cornelius Cornelius wrote:

> I may not be making myself clear. I prefer the result that actually
> happened as nobody else got hurt. Trying to incapacitate the perps,
> by any means be it brute force, guns, whatever, could possibly end up
> in more innocent people being hurt.

Well, on a positive note a couple of Brits have been arrested by the authorities for rude Twitter comments. At least the cops are well-situated to deal with people who express unpopular ideas.

Whether it's head-chopping in England or riots and mass rapes in Scandanavia, the police will always be on-guard to make sure that nobody insults those who do the raping, the beheading and the burning of your car. The "backlash" that never comes is always more important.

-Tom Enright

[CheeseHusker dos]

Saw that part too - gosh forbid you say anything negative lest you get
arrested for hate crimes or whatever the formal charges are.

[Eric Ramon]

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, speaking of horrible hatchet
murders.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/24/son-former-bush-adviser-charged-gaithersburg-hatch/

I'm not quite ready yet to make a flat out assertion that we have to
be fearful of *all* sons of former Bush advisors. Or that we have to
do *something* about *them*!

[Cornelius Cornelius]

They were shot and apprehended by police and will now presumably be
tried on terrorism charges. What further deterrent do you want?

[Cornelius Cornelius]

Nice snark but has precisely fuck all to do with the discussion at
hand.

I disagree with the silly Twitter arrests, both here and elsewhere,
but what the fuck does it have to do with the situation in Woolwich or
the immediate aftermath to it, with regards to an armed v. disarmed
society?

[alic...@yahoo.com]

Because cops are going to go after soft targets, given a choice between
arresting a white, working-class, big-mouth moran or a violent immigrant
Muslim the guy who won't resist, the guy who won't have a dozen grievance
organizations supporting him will be arrested. The other guy is too troublesome.

The police in Sweden will not protect native Swedes from violent immigrants,
as a result the Swedes must protect themselves. Of course if Swedes do
attempt to protect themselves, their property and their families they will
be portrayed as neo-Nazis.

The cops in Europe have abdicated their responsibility to protect citizens,
so citizens should be given the power to protect themselves.

-Tom Enright

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy]

<the_andr...@yahoo.com> wrote

> >> SCOTUS says you have no right to carry concealed
> >> weapons. Or open carry, for that matter.
> > The latter is incorrect.
>
> Uh, no. DC v Heller says laws making "gun-free" zones
> are perfectly legal under the 2nd. Obviously SCOTUS
> wasn't going to make it legal for nutcases to walk into
> the gallery with loaded weapons....
>
> You have a right to keep "traditional" arms at home,
> assuming you haven't forfeited the right via felony
> or mental illness, etc. Other than that, it's perfectly
> legal to forbid open or concealed carry, require
> registration and regulate sales.
<
<That isn't what you said. You said I have no right to open carry,
<which I do. I don't have an unlimited right to open carry.

The obvious issue of "How do I get my gun to my house
in the first place" notwithstanding.

--Tedward

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy]

"NapalmHeart" <kol...@freedomnet.org> wrote

The potential for "more innocent people being hurt" is always there,
whether people do anything or not. The fact that these nutjobs did
not turn on more people was just plain dumb luck.

You can choose to call the cops like the guy did with the Boston
bomber. Or you can shoot the fucker yourself.

--Tedward

[The Undead Edward M. Kennedy]

"Cornelius Cornelius" <corneliusc...@gmail.com> wrote

The fact that you will be mauled/killed before your first victim is.
We don't have to be a nation of pussies like Engerland apparently
is. You wanna be a pussy, America grants that right. And the
right to fight back too.

The right to self-defense is self-evident.

--Tedward

[alic...@yahoo.com]

On Monday, May 27, 2013 4:12:05 PM UTC-4, The Undead Edward M. Kennedy wrote:

<They were shot and apprehended by police and will now presumably be
<tried on terrorism charges. What further deterrent do you want?


>The fact that you will be mauled/killed before your first victim is.
>We don't have to be a nation of pussies like Engerland apparently
>is. You wanna be a pussy, America grants that right. And the
>right to fight back too.
>
>The right to self-defense is self-evident.
>
> --Tedward

It seems that the pussification of the English male (my guess is that the Scots and Irish will put-up more of a fight) is only part of the grand design

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/7198329/Labours-secret-plan-to-lure-migrants.html

-Tom Enright

[Dennis J]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:28:48 -0700 (PDT), CheeseHusker dos
<jonr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 24, 2:21�pm, Zaphod Beeblebrox <victor.kin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/24/2013 11:19 AM, the_andrew_sm...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > I also know that you know it's illegal to carry a weapon on a military
>> > installation and that it doesn't look like some front line encampment
>> > in the movies where everyone is walking around with a rifle in their
>> > hands.
>>
>> This is kind of off-topic but the above paragraph set me thinking.
>> Fully trained military guys whom we trust with safeguarding our country
>> aren't allowed to carry a weapon in their own military installation.
>> But we're OK with allowing any random guy to carry one concealed on his
>> person? �Something is amiss here...
>

>Yep.
>
>I think it might have to do with a "logistics" issue tho - soooo many
>weapons in a small space leads to issues of inventory and wide scale
>theft. Perhaps.

and accidents....

--

"Beware of the Military-Industrial Complex!!" D.D.E
"iPOD -- I Prefer Other Devices"
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.

[Dennis J]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 14:31:04 -0400, "Wolfie" <bgbd...@gte.net> wrote:

>
>
>"Damon Hynes, Cyclone Ranger" wrote
>
>> iirc, at Hood, the hundreds of weapons-trained Army troops were barred
>> by statute from carrying while on base.
>
>Am I the only one who sees the irony in people wanting
>untrained civilians doing something the Army doesn't
>allow its trained troops to do?
>

think crony capitalism.... MP's and SP's should be the only cops on
base. I always found that stupid with all of these civilian
contractors on a base and they're doing jobs that regular military
people would be doing out in the field?

[Dennis J]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 09:01:56 -0500, "Con Reeder, unhyphenated
American" <cons...@bill.perusion.com> wrote:

>On 2013-05-24, corneliusc...@gmail.com <corneliusc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> My thoughts:
>>

>> Dudes were fucking mental. ?The fact they were raised here is

>> terrifying (much more than their actual actions).
>>
>> True Muslim leaders are rightfully outraged, as are all the rest of

>> us. ?Those following true Islam must bear their share of the weight

>> in eliminating those, that in an evil manipulation of their
>> religion, bring shame upon it.
>>
>> Is the end result of yesterday any worse for happening in a disarmed

>> society? ?We have the suspects in custody (no different I might add,

>> to the stated, only half successful, mission of the authorities in

>> Boston). ?Nobody else was hurt. ?Brave people (all seemingly women,

>> interesting side chat on the implications of that) stood up,

>> unarmed, and diffused the situation. ?To me, that sounds like a
>> quite a good result.?
>
>Sure, if you like the image of bloodthirsty pricks confidently
>crowing over their misdeed for 20 minutes instead of lying bleeding
>on the street. And if you like the image of people walking cowed as
>Muslim youths swagger down the street, yelling at women that are
>dressed in a way they don't approve.

then there's the gangs in south Central LA...

[NapalmHeart]

"Dennis J" <drju...@frontier.SCRAPE.COM> wrote in message
news:dfr7q8tl44cb8lanl...@4ax.com...

CA being one of the states where getting a CPL is very difficult.

[Dennis J]

yeah like the cops that sit all day at the side of the road wanting to
catch speeders instead of real police work? Or Excise cops in Indiana
where their whole thing is arresting underage/Drunk and disorderly
people?

>The police in Sweden will not protect native Swedes from violent immigrants,
>as a result the Swedes must protect themselves. Of course if Swedes do
>attempt to protect themselves, their property and their families they will
>be portrayed as neo-Nazis.
>
>The cops in Europe have abdicated their responsibility to protect citizens,
>so citizens should be given the power to protect themselves.
>
>-Tom Enright

--