It's gonna be a show-down
Bill Hileman
Got into a fight with his brother over who-knows-what and pushed him into a
shrunk (that's what my wife calls it, I dunno) which has a lot of glass on
it. We explain to him how dangerous that was, and he throws a folding chair
on its side, but does manage to march to his room. I follow him in and tell
him to hand over his gameboy. He refuses. I explain that either he hands
it over now, or I will get it later and he won't get it back again for much
later than if he hands it over now. He again refuses. He realizes that I'm
going to confiscate the gameboy when I get a chance, so at the first
opportunity, he hides it and thinks I don't know where he's hidden it. I
tell him it's time for his shower and again he refuses. So his brother gets
the shower, and we just let him stew a bit more. Now we hear thumping in
the bathroom and go in there to discover him standing there waiting for a
shower, but as I go into the bathroom to adjust the water, curtain, etc. he
begins beating on me. The dog gets a bit unsettled with this, even though
I'm just ignoring it. Mom intervenes but still no words, just violence, so
we both leave yet again. He's been standing in the bathroom now,
butt-nekkid, occaissionaly beating on the walls, for about 1/2 hour.
My son is about to learn where he inherited his bullheadedness genes from.
Trent Woodruff
I swear to God I thought this was heading directly toward "standing in
the toilet". I'm not sure why.
--
...I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When
you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I
dismiss yours.
- Stephen Roberts
jimbr...@yahoo.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SZE2o5_Wgg
Dig the clothes, hair, glasses, amps, basses(or cello's or WeverTF
they are). I love their earlier stuff.
MoParMaN
"Bill Hileman" <discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote in message
news:xXJtj.87743$rc2....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
would already be cherry red and the gameboy would be in the blender going
round and round.
--
------MoParMaN------
---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
--Remove Clothes to Reply!--
TEDWARD Said:
Eggs are really good for you. They have all the nutrition needed to make a
chicken.
Bill Hileman
news:e976f560-0c4b-4b01...@72g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 16, 5:01 pm, "Bill Hileman" <discgolf...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
> One of my boys picked today to test his parents' patience.
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SZE2o5_Wgg
:Dig the clothes, hair, glasses, amps, basses(or cello's or WeverTF
:they are). I love their earlier stuff.
One of my all-time favorite groups.
And yeah, that song was in my head when I came up with the posting subject.
J. Hugh Sullivan
The cherry red started long before he was old enough to do what that
kid did at my house.
My guess is that the cherry red didnt start early enough at his house
- if at all.
Hugh
Melvin Purvis
news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net:
The timing is often not the relevant issue. It's more the
appropriateness. My dad whaled the living daylights out of me for pretty
much any reason, or none. After a while, it sort of lost its
effectiveness as a character-building tool.
Bill Lang
(Ea...@bellsouth.net) wrote
Given what we know about Bill's kids, your behaviour would be wrong.
But don't let the facts get in your way.
--
wjlmuttatyeahwhodotcom
"I before E except after C, and E before N in chicken"
Bill Hileman
news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
Spend a little time in my shoes before you judge, Hugh. If you're the
result of parents thrashing their kids, I think I'll stick with my own
methods, thanks.
Bill Hileman
news:Xns9A476B616BA1...@216.168.3.44...
Agreed. And, what few would understand is that there are some kids where
corporeal punishment does a lot more harm than good. I know this is
diificult for some to believe or understand, but all kids aren't the same in
regards to how they can/should be raised, and how they should be
punsihed/rewarded.
Bill Hileman
news:Xns9A476C72CD...@199.45.49.11...
Thanks, Bill. What the entire situation boiled down to was a basic step in
childhood where a child tries to test their limits. Usually, this happens
around the age of two, hence the "terrible twos" however some children
mature at different rates. My kid is experiencing the terrible twos at the
age of nine. Better late than never that he learn the limits of his
"powers" He generally is a good kid (aren't they all?) but sometimes he
seems to think that he's the parent. And, of course, you have to refer back
to that old cliche' "You need to pick your battles."
I think I got through to him. As I mentioned I knew where he hid his
gameboy and re-hid it while he was in the shower. He got the message loud
and clear, Dad wasn't bluffing. So far today, he's been a model son.
deem...@aol.com
> "Melvin Purvis" <uga88vt90-nos...@nospam-gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9A476B616BA1...@216.168.3.44...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in
> >news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net:
>
> >> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:03:42 -0600, "MoParMaN"
>
> >>>"Bill Hileman" <discgolf...@gEEmail.com> wrote in message
You mean the little rsfckers are INDIVIDUALS????? How dare they not
conform!!!!!!
deem...@aol.com
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:03:42 -0600, "MoParMaN"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Bill Hileman" <discgolf...@gEEmail.com> wrote in message
That just doesn't work with all kids. My three.....one yelling/
disapproval worked, one an ocassional spanking was needed.....the
other could be beaten black and blue without effect.
Bill Hileman
news:a70c8318-ec63-473f...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
----------------------------
DING! DING! DING! DING!
MoParMaN
"J. Hugh Sullivan" <Ea...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
Could be one of those TIME OUT parents....Like that really works!
MoParMaN
"Melvin Purvis" <uga88vt9...@nospam-gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A476B616BA1...@216.168.3.44...
The he shoulda moved to sticking his boot up your ass! That really builds
character,
MoParMaN
"Bill Hileman" <discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote in message
house....You have already lost.
MoParMaN
You need a bigger stick or try an axe handle, that works wonder in attitude
re-adjustments.
Melvin Purvis
news:FvZtj.823$pl4...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net:
He did. Then after a bit he decided to go for the repeated-kicks-in-the-
groin and the kicking-me-repeatedly-in-the-head thing. I don't think any
of that worked out so well either.
Anthony Summers
> > Thanks, Bill. What the entire situation boiled down to was a basic step
> > in childhood where a child tries to test their limits. Usually, this
> > happens around the age of two, hence the "terrible twos" however some
> > children mature at different rates. My kid is experiencing the terrible
> > twos at the age of nine. Better late than never that he learn the limits
> > of his "powers" He generally is a good kid (aren't they all?) but
> > sometimes he seems to think that he's the parent. And, of course, you
> > have to refer back to that old cliche' "You need to pick your battles."
> >
> > I think I got through to him. As I mentioned I knew where he hid his
> > gameboy and re-hid it while he was in the shower. He got the message loud
> > and clear, Dad wasn't bluffing. So far today, he's been a model son.
> >
> When you start letting the kid dictate how he's gonna act and behave in your
> house....You have already lost.
Lots of kids have rough circumstances to deal with.
Mr. Hileman's kids have autism; your kids had you.
I like the Hileman kids' chances.
--
A. Summers || summerstorm0007-->at<--yahoo.com
"In a very short time, you have gone from nobody to RFSC's biggest twat!
Congratulations, and welcome to my killfile!" -- "C the Shocker"
MoParMaN
Hmm, almost sounds like child abuse...
MoParMaN
"Anthony Summers" <summers...@yah00.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.222230ed4...@us.Usenet-News.net...
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:46:14 -0600, MoParMaN wrote...
>
>> > Thanks, Bill. What the entire situation boiled down to was a basic
>> > step
>> > in childhood where a child tries to test their limits. Usually, this
>> > happens around the age of two, hence the "terrible twos" however some
>> > children mature at different rates. My kid is experiencing the
>> > terrible
>> > twos at the age of nine. Better late than never that he learn the
>> > limits
>> > of his "powers" He generally is a good kid (aren't they all?) but
>> > sometimes he seems to think that he's the parent. And, of course, you
>> > have to refer back to that old cliche' "You need to pick your battles."
>> >
>> > I think I got through to him. As I mentioned I knew where he hid his
>> > gameboy and re-hid it while he was in the shower. He got the message
>> > loud
>> > and clear, Dad wasn't bluffing. So far today, he's been a model son.
>> >
>> When you start letting the kid dictate how he's gonna act and behave in
>> your
>> house....You have already lost.
>
> Lots of kids have rough circumstances to deal with.
>
> Mr. Hileman's kids have autism; your kids had you.
>
> I like the Hileman kids' chances.
>
kids of their own. Some kids have good genes too!
Anthony Summers
...and they've been arrested how many times?
Congratulations on missing the point, by the way.
Melvin Purvis
$R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:
You think?
This was, however, before the PSAs and posters and magazine ads and non-
profit fundraisers meant to raise child abuse awareness. If I'd called
the cops back then and said what Dad did to me they'd have probably
written me off as just another kid upset about being spanked.
Bill Hileman
news:MPG.222230ed4...@us.Usenet-News.net...
>
>> > Thanks, Bill. What the entire situation boiled down to was a basic
>> > step
>> > in childhood where a child tries to test their limits. Usually, this
>> > happens around the age of two, hence the "terrible twos" however some
>> > children mature at different rates. My kid is experiencing the
>> > terrible
>> > twos at the age of nine. Better late than never that he learn the
>> > limits
>> > of his "powers" He generally is a good kid (aren't they all?) but
>> > sometimes he seems to think that he's the parent. And, of course, you
>> > have to refer back to that old cliche' "You need to pick your battles."
>> >
>> > I think I got through to him. As I mentioned I knew where he hid his
>> > gameboy and re-hid it while he was in the shower. He got the message
>> > loud
>> > and clear, Dad wasn't bluffing. So far today, he's been a model son.
>> >
>> When you start letting the kid dictate how he's gonna act and behave in
>> your
>> house....You have already lost.
>
> Lots of kids have rough circumstances to deal with.
>
> Mr. Hileman's kids have autism; your kids had you.
>
> I like the Hileman kids' chances.
You might not care either way, but you're back on my Christmas list.
Eric Kemp
Damn. Are you on speaking terms with your father?
John Rogers
walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
gonna do it? You? You, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)?
Bill's kids have special needs. I somehow doubt that the route MoPar
or yourself have suggested (and, to be honest, I used with my kid)
would do a single bit of good with his boys. In fact, it would
probably be much more likely to do harm.
John Rogers
AU Class of 1985
The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very
well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive,
we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build
your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a
gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will
follow ours." (General Sir Charles Napier)
Melvin Purvis
news:tN_tj.2989$f8....@newsfe23.lga:
Yes.
I don't speak to him often and we don't speak of the abuse. He's managed
to convince himself that it never happened.
J. Hugh Sullivan
<uga88vt9...@nospam-gmail.com> wrote:
>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in
>news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net:
>> The cherry red started long before he was old enough to do what that
>> kid did at my house.
>>
>> My guess is that the cherry red didnt start early enough at his house
>> - if at all.
>
>The timing is often not the relevant issue. It's more the
>appropriateness. My dad whaled the living daylights out of me for pretty
>much any reason, or none. After a while, it sort of lost its
>effectiveness as a character-building tool.
No argument. When one attains the age of reason other methods should
be used. Regardless of the age sounds like the kid in question has not
reached that age. There is never an excuse for hitting one on the
head.
One of my sons was seldom whipped; the other was whipped enough for
both. The one whipped most is a lot more successful.
I found that one thump was enough to teach all 4 grandsons to obey me
by the time they were 4 years old. Just the threat worked after that.
But, sometimes it's easier to respect a grandfather than a father when
you are growing up ad only one is around 24/7.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
I can't avoid them - I have two very successful sons - and one
grandson - and another close - and two more in the wings.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
That from a guy who is wondering how his current job will wind uo to a
fairly successful family.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
<deem...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Feb 17, 10:18=A0am, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:03:42 -0600, "MoParMaN"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <scott.hendryx.clot...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> >"Bill Hileman" <discgolf...@gEEmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:xXJtj.87743$rc2....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> >> One of my boys picked today to test his parents' patience.
>>
>> >> Got into a fight with his brother over who-knows-what and pushed him in=
>to
>> >> a shrunk (that's what my wife calls it, I dunno) which has a lot of gla=
>ss
>> >> on it. =A0We explain to him how dangerous that was, and he throws a fol=
>ding
>> >> chair on its side, but does manage to march to his room. =A0I follow hi=
>m in
>> >> and tell him to hand over his gameboy. =A0He refuses. =A0I explain that=
> either
>> >> he hands it over now, or I will get it later and he won't get it back
>> >> again for much later than if he hands it over now. =A0He again refuses.=
> =A0He
>> >> realizes that I'm going to confiscate the gameboy when I get a chance, =
>so
>> >> at the first opportunity, he hides it and thinks I don't know where he'=
>s
>> >> hidden it. =A0I tell him it's time for his shower and again he refuses.=
> =A0So
>> >> his brother gets the shower, and we just let him stew a bit more. =A0No=
>w we
>> >> hear thumping in the bathroom and go in there to discover him standing
>> >> there waiting for a shower, but as I go into the bathroom to adjust the=
>
>> >> water, curtain, etc. he begins beating on me. =A0The dog gets a bit
>> >> unsettled with this, even though I'm just ignoring it. =A0Mom intervene=
>s but
>> >> still no words, just violence, so we both leave yet again. =A0He's been=
>
>> >> standing in the bathroom now, butt-nekkid, occaissionaly beating on the=
>
>> >> walls, for about 1/2 hour.
>>
>> >> My son is about to learn where he inherited his bullheadedness genes fr=
>om.
>>
>> >I dunno if he needs a TOISDAB kit, or if he was at my house, he little as=
>s
>> >would already be cherry red and the gameboy would be in the blender going=
>
>> >round and round.
>>
>> >--
>> >------MoParMaN------
>>
>> The cherry red started long before he was old enough to do what that
>> kid did at my house.
>>
>> My guess is that the cherry red didnt start early enough at his house
>> - if at all.
>>
>> Hugh
>
> That just doesn't work with all kids. My three.....one yelling/
>disapproval worked, one an ocassional spanking was needed.....the
>other could be beaten black and blue without effect.
>
No argument. I never yelled. Sometimes they were whipped, sometimes
they lost privileges. Whatever and how much it took to work. I knew
who would win - so did they.
I was like the other you mentioned and I don't know anyone I would
trade with.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
Actually it does with my two youngest grandsons.
Hugh
>
J. Hugh Sullivan
<discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>"J. Hugh Sullivan" <Ea...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>> My guess is that the cherry red didnt start early enough at his house
>> - if at all.
>
>Spend a little time in my shoes before you judge, Hugh. If you're the
>result of parents thrashing their kids, I think I'll stick with my own
>methods, thanks.
But you obviously failed. Maybe it's time to listen to someone who did
not.
I don't know how you should handle your kids, I just know I could have
figured a way when they were younger. It may be too late now depending
on their ages.
I'm really not trying to judge you. I'm trying to point out varying
measures that work from first hand experience.
Hugh
Bill Hileman
Ok, Hugh, I'll bite. WTF are you talking about?
Bill Hileman
And you have how much experience with autistic children? Or do you even
acknowledge that it's real?
Bill Lang
(Ea...@bellsouth.net) wrote
Which one of your kids is autistic?
--
wjlmuttatyeahwhodotcom
"I before E except after C, and E before N in chicken"
Anthony Summers
Excellent, Mr. Hileman. I don't wear anything orange, though.
Anthony Summers
I have a friend in the opposite circumstance; his son has convinced
himself (and others) that he was abused despite the fact that he was
rarely touched in any sort of violent manner. Kid is a serial liar with
a desperate need to be accepted and somehow got it into his head that
his eccentric behavior can be explained away by an imagined past. My
friend accepts his calls, but that's as far as it goes. Apparently the
lies were told for a good five years before he ever found out about it.
I cannot imagine being so desperate for acceptance that I'd tell lies
against anyone - let alone my own father. I feel sorry for the guy.
Bill Hileman
Good thing the Gators have two colors, then.
Trent Woodruff
>>"Melvin Purvis" <uga88vt9...@nospam-gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> The cherry red started long before he was old enough to do what that
>>> kid did at my house.
>>> My guess is that the cherry red didnt start early enough at his house
>>> - if at all.
>> The timing is often not the relevant issue. It's more the
>> appropriateness. My dad whaled the living daylights out of me for pretty
>> much any reason, or none. After a while, it sort of lost its
>> effectiveness as a character-building tool.
>Agreed. And, what few would understand is that there are some kids where
>corporeal punishment does a lot more harm than good. I know this is
>diificult for some to believe or understand, but all kids aren't the same in
>regards to how they can/should be raised, and how they should be
>punsihed/rewarded.
Exactly correct. Just as you deal with adults in different manners
(or you do if you want them to be their most effective), the same
applies to kids.
--
...I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When
you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I
dismiss yours.
- Stephen Roberts
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
hold any grudges.
jimbr...@yahoo.com
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:41:37 -0500, "Bill Hileman"
>
Hugh, generally you arent nearly as ignorant as your bammer brethren,
but your genes are showing through on this subject. I would venture
to guess you dont even know what autism is, let alone ever been around
an autistic kid.
jimbr...@yahoo.com
> Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan). we live in a world that has
> walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
> gonna do it? You? You, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)?
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:03:42 -0600, "MoParMaN"
>
> >>"Bill Hileman" <discgolf...@gEEmail.com> wrote in message
I'm firm with my kids, and they'll get an occasional spanking, but I'd
never beat them or use a whip. They do fear me however, for whatever
reason, but arent the least bit scared of me. Their mom can tell them
things to no avail, but I just say it once in my "I mean it" voice,
and they are right in line.
deem...@aol.com
When the Alpha Male speaks....everyone listens....well, except the
Alpha Female....
MoParMaN
--
----------MoParMan----------
--SCUD Coordinates 32.61204 North, 96.92989 West-
------Remove Clothes to Reply------
TEDWARD Said:
Eggs are really good for you. They have the nutrition needed to make a
chicken!
Trent Woodruff
>I'm firm with my kids, and they'll get an occasional spanking, but I'd
>never beat them or use a whip. They do fear me however, for whatever
>reason, but arent the least bit scared of me. Their mom can tell them
>things to no avail, but I just say it once in my "I mean it" voice,
>and they are right in line.
Does your wife work? I found that with my wife home with the kids all
the time, they grew "used to her" and didn't react as well to her as
they did to me, who spent daytime hours at work. They weren't as sure
of what they could get away with and all that.
Chris Bellomy
> One of my boys picked today to test his parents' patience.
>
> Got into a fight with his brother over who-knows-what and pushed him into a
> shrunk (that's what my wife calls it, I dunno) which has a lot of glass on
> it. We explain to him how dangerous that was, and he throws a folding chair
> on its side, but does manage to march to his room. I follow him in and tell
> him to hand over his gameboy. He refuses. I explain that either he hands
> it over now, or I will get it later and he won't get it back again for much
> later than if he hands it over now. He again refuses. He realizes that I'm
> going to confiscate the gameboy when I get a chance, so at the first
> opportunity, he hides it and thinks I don't know where he's hidden it. I
> tell him it's time for his shower and again he refuses. So his brother gets
> the shower, and we just let him stew a bit more. Now we hear thumping in
> the bathroom and go in there to discover him standing there waiting for a
> shower, but as I go into the bathroom to adjust the water, curtain, etc. he
> begins beating on me. The dog gets a bit unsettled with this, even though
> I'm just ignoring it. Mom intervenes but still no words, just violence, so
> we both leave yet again. He's been standing in the bathroom now,
> butt-nekkid, occaissionaly beating on the walls, for about 1/2 hour.
>
> My son is about to learn where he inherited his bullheadedness genes from.
Nice extinction, Bill. Must take the patience of Job!
cb
Anthony Summers
Not quite as much fun when it's someone questioning YOUR parenting, is
it, hypocrite?
Bill Hileman
news:620977c6-9d42-4d52...@o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
------------------------------
I'm thinking about sending the two of my kids over to his place for a
weekend or so, and I'm sure he'll straighten them both right out.
jimbr...@yahoo.com
> <jimbrown...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
A local family has three autistic kids. Three out of three kids. No
multiple births either. I believe they've been studied because the
odds of them having three separate autistic kids are supposedly
astronomical.
Wife and I were talking about it the other day(I hope I dont come
across as cold to your situation. ) How they have three very autistic
kids that are probably going to need assistance all their lives. Its
got to be tough to realize that dreams of your kids growing up to live
normal, productive, happy lives and get the joy of raising their own
kids is in serious jeopardy, to say the least. I'm thankful for my
three healthy ones, and just have to remember any minor setbacks my
kids might have growing up pale in comparison to what others have.
Dennis J
ABBA songs and you had to say????...
and ELO started going through my head... "SAVE ME"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWzFaOkGCoI
---
"the Democrat and Republican parties are destroying our country right now,They're destroying our political process." Jesse Ventura
"Education is the progressive discover of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"people who read the Tabloids deserve to be lied to" Jerry Sienfeld
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor"
"Don't waste a minute not being happy. If one window closes, run to the next window - or break down a door." -- Brooke Shields
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.
jimbr...@yahoo.com
> >On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:23:58 -0800 (PST), jimbrown...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >I'm firm with my kids, and they'll get an occasional spanking, but I'd
> >never beat them or use a whip. They do fear me however, for whatever
> >reason, but arent the least bit scared of me. Their mom can tell them
> >things to no avail, but I just say it once in my "I mean it" voice,
> >and they are right in line.
>
> Does your wife work? I found that with my wife home with the kids all
> the time, they grew "used to her" and didn't react as well to her as
> they did to me, who spent daytime hours at work. They weren't as sure
> of what they could get away with and all that.
No she doesnt(did I say that?). That could very well have something
to do with it. She's also usually the "good cop" and likes to make
them tell me what they did while I was gone.
jimbr...@yahoo.com
> hey, "Bill Hileman" <discgolf...@gEEmail.com>, all the best songs are
> ABBA songs and you had to say????...
>
>
>
>
>
> >One of my boys picked today to test his parents' patience.
>
> >Got into a fight with his brother over who-knows-what and pushed him into a
> >shrunk (that's what my wife calls it, I dunno) which has a lot of glass on
> >it. We explain to him how dangerous that was, and he throws a folding chair
> >on its side, but does manage to march to his room. I follow him in and tell
> >him to hand over his gameboy. He refuses. I explain that either he hands
> >it over now, or I will get it later and he won't get it back again for much
> >later than if he hands it over now. He again refuses. He realizes that I'm
> >going to confiscate the gameboy when I get a chance, so at the first
> >opportunity, he hides it and thinks I don't know where he's hidden it. I
> >tell him it's time for his shower and again he refuses. So his brother gets
> >the shower, and we just let him stew a bit more. Now we hear thumping in
> >the bathroom and go in there to discover him standing there waiting for a
> >shower, but as I go into the bathroom to adjust the water, curtain, etc. he
> >begins beating on me. The dog gets a bit unsettled with this, even though
> >I'm just ignoring it. Mom intervenes but still no words, just violence, so
> >we both leave yet again. He's been standing in the bathroom now,
> >butt-nekkid, occaissionaly beating on the walls, for about 1/2 hour.
>
> >My son is about to learn where he inherited his bullheadedness genes from.
>
> and ELO started going through my head... "SAVE ME"
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWzFaOkGCoI
From your link I found this(probably both Murray and Harrelson's
funniest movie):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t2GgN_RC7M&feature=related
And from that I found this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28eC57Xniko&feature=related
"You really jarred something loose tiger".
MoParMaN
ass as usual. Besides, my parenting days are over. Talk to me when your
done...I'm sure you'll need all kits I got left.
--
------MoParMaN------
---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
--Remove Clothes to Reply!--
TEDWARD Said:
Eggs are really good for you. They have all the nutrition needed to make a
chicken.
MoParMaN
> "MoParMaN" <scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in news:FTZtj.12212
> $R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net:>> news:Xns9A4778EC2B37...@216.168.3.44...
>>> "MoParMaN" <scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>>> news:FvZtj.823$pl4...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net:
>>>
>>>>> Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote in
>>>>> news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 06:03:42 -0600, "MoParMaN"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Bill Hileman" <discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:xXJtj.87743$rc2....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>>>>>>little ass would already be cherry red and the gameboy would be in
>>>>>>>the blender going round and round.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>------MoParMaN------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The cherry red started long before he was old enough to do what that
>>>>>> kid did at my house.
>>>>>>
> house
>>>>>> - if at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> appropriateness. My dad whaled the living daylights out of me for
>>>>> pretty much any reason, or none. After a while, it sort of lost its
>>>>> effectiveness as a character-building tool.
>>>>
>>>> builds character,
>>>
>>> He did. Then after a bit he decided to go for the repeated-kicks-in-
> the-
>>> groin and the kicking-me-repeatedly-in-the-head thing. I don't think
> any
>>> of that worked out so well either.
>>
>
> You think?
>
> This was, however, before the PSAs and posters and magazine ads and non-
> profit fundraisers meant to raise child abuse awareness. If I'd called
> the cops back then and said what Dad did to me they'd have probably
> written me off as just another kid upset about being spanked.
I'm sure and the cops prolly would whooped your ass too... I see the abuse
stuff everyday now. My main customer out in easttex is DFPS, PRS, and APS.
It seems bad to me that the state had to start a whole to PS when they added
APS (Adult Protective Services). Now it's reverse ass woopin at the hands of
their children and care givers. I don't know how these people work some of
these cases, for practically NO money, but they got today off!!
MoParMaN
"Bill Hileman" <discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote in message
>
boy toy.
MoParMaN
"John Rogers" <tige...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:v5vgr3domoldr6nkg...@4ax.com...
> Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan). we live in a world that has
> walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
> gonna do it? You? You, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)?
>
> or yourself have suggested (and, to be honest, I used with my kid)
> would do a single bit of good with his boys. In fact, it would
> probably be much more likely to do harm.
>
assumed he was an idot. If one opens ones mouth in this here chat room, one
should provide all the faqs, or one will be bombarded with all kinds of good
advise. In his case and in my humble opinion, he shouldn't have posted at
all about his problem if he wasn't entertaining ideas or opinions from other
noosegroop members.
Course he prolly didn't know this, after all, he is a CANOOK!!
MoParMaN
> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:43:14 -0600, "MoParMaN"
> <scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"J. Hugh Sullivan" <Ea...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>>
>>Could be one of those TIME OUT parents....Like that really works!
>
> Actually it does with my two youngest grandsons.
>
> Hugh
>>
Do they eat meat?
MoParMaN
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:96fa39ad-3311-4282...@72g2000hsu.googlegroups.com...
Well Hell No, he'll kick your ass now.
J. Hugh Sullivan
<wjl...@bitememindspring.com> wrote:
Neither. One grandson may be ADHD. Extremely bright but inattentive.
Very athletic but hyperactive. He is 12.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
<discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>"J. Hugh Sullivan" <Ea...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:47b88a51...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:41:37 -0500, "Bill Hileman"
>> <discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"J. Hugh Sullivan" <Ea...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>>
>>>> My guess is that the cherry red didnt start early enough at his house
>>>> - if at all.
>>>
>>>Spend a little time in my shoes before you judge, Hugh. If you're the
>>>result of parents thrashing their kids, I think I'll stick with my own
>>>methods, thanks.
>>
>> But you obviously failed. Maybe it's time to listen to someone who did
>> not.
>>
>> I don't know how you should handle your kids, I just know I could have
>> figured a way when they were younger. It may be too late now depending
>> on their ages.
>>
>> I'm really not trying to judge you. I'm trying to point out varying
>> measures that work from first hand experience.
>
>And you have how much experience with autistic children? Or do you even
>acknowledge that it's real?
You have me there. I was unaware of the situation.
I would be very poor trying to deal with children with problems.
Seems to me only a doctor could advise which questions the purpose of
your original post.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
>On Feb 17, 1:29=A0pm, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan) wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:41:37 -0500, "Bill Hileman"
>>
>> <discgolf...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>> >"J. Hugh Sullivan" <Ea...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> >news:47b84f22...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>> >> My guess is that the cherry red didnt start early enough at his house
>> >> - if at all.
>>
>> >Spend a little time in my shoes before you judge, Hugh. =A0If you're the
>> >result of parents thrashing their kids, I think I'll stick with my own
>> >methods, thanks.
>>
>> But you obviously failed. Maybe it's time to listen to someone who did
>> not.
>>
>> I don't know how you should handle your kids, I just know I could have
>> figured a way when they were younger. It may be too late now depending
>> on their ages.
>>
>> I'm really not trying to judge you. I'm trying to point out varying
>> measures that work from first hand experience.
>>
>> Hugh
>
>
>
>Hugh, generally you arent nearly as ignorant as your bammer brethren,
>but your genes are showing through on this subject. I would venture
>to guess you dont even know what autism is, let alone ever been around
>an autistic kid.
Thank you and you are right as in my previous post to Hileman. I had
to look up autism before I replied.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
If they have a medical problem I'm sure I would fail. I don't even
handle old age very well.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
<scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>Could be one of those TIME OUT parents....Like that really works!
>>
>> Actually it does with my two youngest grandsons.
>>
>> Hugh
>>>
>Do they eat meat?
Not every meal like I do.
I'm convinced that embarrassment is the way to handle a child like I
was. Whipping and talks were ineffective. But I couldn't stand being
wrong and/or being embarrassed. That's still effective but
unassailable logic works better now.
I expected perfection from me but I'm still looking for the first time
since I have not caught a 25# bass yet. 8-) I've given up on
everything else.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
wrote:
>Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan). we live in a world that has
>walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
>gonna do it? You? You, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)?
>
>>My guess is that the cherry red didnt start early enough at his house
>>- if at all.
>
>
>Bill's kids have special needs. I somehow doubt that the route MoPar
>or yourself have suggested (and, to be honest, I used with my kid)
>would do a single bit of good with his boys. In fact, it would
>probably be much more likely to do harm.
Thank you, John. I have previously replied that I was unaware. In my
defense I never expected someone to ask for opinions about how to
handle a medical condition. That is not an excuse for me.
I would not be capable of raising such a child.
Hugh
J. Hugh Sullivan
<afre...@charter.net> wrote:
>>On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:23:58 -0800 (PST), jimbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>I'm firm with my kids, and they'll get an occasional spanking, but I'd
>>never beat them or use a whip. They do fear me however, for whatever
>>reason, but arent the least bit scared of me. Their mom can tell them
>>things to no avail, but I just say it once in my "I mean it" voice,
>>and they are right in line.
>
>Does your wife work? I found that with my wife home with the kids all
>the time, they grew "used to her" and didn't react as well to her as
>they did to me, who spent daytime hours at work. They weren't as sure
>of what they could get away with and all that.
That is an accurate observation.
Hugh
Bill Hileman
Left-handed apology accepted, Hugh, but what makes you think I was seeking
advice?
I suppose I could start any posts I make about my kids with the disclaimer
that my kids are autistic, however I've mentioned that before several times
in several posts. I really didn't want to harp on it. I can get why you
didn't know, but I was surprised that Scott didn't know. Doesn't really
matter all that much in this case. Another assumption that I think you and
others made is that I am against physical punishment. I'm not. I just am
in this particular case. As others have implied, it would do more harm than
good, and I can confirm that. Hugh, I'm not going to "consult" with a bunch
of people in a football newsgroup on how to raise my kids, but I do like to
think that I can share my experiences without having to worry about
offending anyone. I think by some of the replies that some people are
genuinely interested in my unique siituation. Others aren't and that's
okay.
J. Hugh Sullivan
<discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>"J. Hugh Sullivan" <Ea...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:47b9c33f...@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:29:38 -0500, John Rogers <tige...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>>Bill's kids have special needs. I somehow doubt that the route MoPar
>>>or yourself have suggested (and, to be honest, I used with my kid)
>>>would do a single bit of good with his boys. In fact, it would
>>>probably be much more likely to do harm.
>>
>> Thank you, John. I have previously replied that I was unaware. In my
>> defense I never expected someone to ask for opinions about how to
>> handle a medical condition. That is not an excuse for me.
>>
>> I would not be capable of raising such a child.
>
>Left-handed apology accepted, Hugh, but what makes you think I was seeking
>advice?
I meant it to be a sincere apology and I thought the purpose was to
seek opinions, not advice.
>I suppose I could start any posts I make about my kids with the disclaimer
>that my kids are autistic, however I've mentioned that before several times
>in several posts. I really didn't want to harp on it. I can get why you
>didn't know, but I was surprised that Scott didn't know. Doesn't really
>matter all that much in this case.
I don't read many posts of a strictly personal nature. I normally read
posts from people I want to rebut or diss, those I respect, and any
Aubovines not included in those categorizations..
I quickly class people as liberals and conservatives. We deliberately
violate the first rule of a Naval Wardroom - don't talk politics, sex
or religion. This forum demonstrates why.
>Another assumption that I think you and
>others made is that I am against physical punishment. I'm not. I just am
>in this particular case. As others have implied, it would do more harm than
>good, and I can confirm that.
I did exactly that - and I'll take the blame for not remembering the
post or posts where you mentioned autism. It is never my intent to
disrespect those who have an unfortunate condition with the exception
of one person and one condition.
>Hugh, I'm not going to "consult" with a bunch
>of people in a football newsgroup on how to raise my kids, but I do like to
>think that I can share my experiences without having to worry about
>offending anyone. I think by some of the replies that some people are
>genuinely interested in my unique siituation. Others aren't and that's
>okay.
I agree with that with a few reservations. To me this is essentially a
forum to tell others to "stick it". Regardless of one's successes and
accomplishments, no respect is shown by people who differ with one's
general perspective.
To remain here for any time a person must recognize that and accept
it. One must be able to take it as well as dish it out.
I enjoy confrontation - it keeps the brain from atrophying. I also
enjoy proving (I think) that Bammers and Aubovines can coexist if they
work at it. I would probably have left long ago if they were not here.
I further agree that everyone needs someone If your someone to talk to
here here I hope I don't make the same mistake again. But I probably
will and, if I do, I'll apologize again.
Hugh
jimbr...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
I dont care what they say about you Hugh. You're a decent guy.
Bill Hileman
news:e372519e-1621-4b2a...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Seconded. It was very decent of him to take the time to read up on the
subject and apologize.
J. Hugh Sullivan
Thank both of you.
I'm controversial and about as right-wing as it gets. That catches a
lot of flak. It's something of a game with me. It's competition and
I'm overly competitive.
But, when a person has a problem, that's entirely different. It's time
for decency then.
Hugh
John Rogers
that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.
<scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net>?
>That could be true. But since he didn't state his kids had problems, I
>assumed he was an idot. If one opens ones mouth in this here chat room, one
>should provide all the faqs, or one will be bombarded with all kinds of good
>advise. In his case and in my humble opinion, he shouldn't have posted at
>all about his problem if he wasn't entertaining ideas or opinions from other
>noosegroop members.
>
>Course he prolly didn't know this, after all, he is a CANOOK!!
Heh... you crack me up, MoParDood.
John Rogers
AU Class of 1985
The Al Del Greco of Atlanta
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very
well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive,
we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build
your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a
gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will
follow ours." (General Sir Charles Napier)
MoParMaN
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:30:55 GMT, "MoParMaN"
> <scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>>>Could be one of those TIME OUT parents....Like that really works!
>>>
>>> Actually it does with my two youngest grandsons.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>>
>>Do they eat meat?
>
> Not every meal like I do.
>
> I'm convinced that embarrassment is the way to handle a child like I
> was. Whipping and talks were ineffective. But I couldn't stand being
> wrong and/or being embarrassed. That's still effective but
> unassailable logic works better now.
>
> I expected perfection from me but I'm still looking for the first time
> since I have not caught a 25# bass yet. 8-) I've given up on
> everything else.
>
> Hugh
>
pound Pickerel....I wonder if you can eat those things?
John Rogers
walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
gonna do it? You? You, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)?
>I would not be capable of raising such a child.
I can't even imagine what it would be like.
But greatly admire the people who can and do.
MoParMaN
> "MoParMaN" <scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net>. we live in a world
> that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.
> Whose gonna do it? You? You, "MoParMaN"
> <scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net>?
>
>>That could be true. But since he didn't state his kids had problems, I
>>assumed he was an idot. If one opens ones mouth in this here chat room,
>>one
>>should provide all the faqs, or one will be bombarded with all kinds of
>>good
>>advise. In his case and in my humble opinion, he shouldn't have posted at
>>all about his problem if he wasn't entertaining ideas or opinions from
>>other
>>noosegroop members.
>>
>>Course he prolly didn't know this, after all, he is a CANOOK!!
>
> Heh... you crack me up, MoParDood.
>
Bill Hileman
> Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan). we live in a world that has
> walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
> gonna do it? You? You, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)?
>
>>I would not be capable of raising such a child.
>
> I can't even imagine what it would be like.
>
> But greatly admire the people who can and do.
I meant to mention this before, but forgot. Hugh, you could do it, (so
could you, John). It takes adjustment, but then I'm not sure I know what
it's like to raise "normal" (if I can say that) kids so I don't really have
anything to compare it to. But I know that any decent person would do
whatever it took for their kids and their family. Hell, even Mianderson
would adjust, methinks.
Funny, how many times I've been told by friends, and even family, that "God"
chose my wife and I to be the parents of these special kids, that special
people are "chosen" and only those that can do it, etc. Being an admitted
Atheist, obviously I don't believe it, but I take the compliment as it's
intended. Personally I take it as challenge.
I'm sure I've posted this before, but to explain that last sentence: I
remember reading years ago that the parents of multiples have twice the
divorce rate of parents of singletons. Just a year or so ago, at a "Parent
of Special Needs Kids Survival Course" they told us that parents of special
needs kids have an 80% (it might have been higher) divorce rate. So, what
does that make it for the combination? Every time I just want to check out
and/or cash in, I just remember those odds, and that we've beaten them. Our
marriage is less than ideal, but we -have- a family, and I'll be damned if
I'll let anything end that.
Bill Hileman
news:xEquj.1142$pl4...@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "John Rogers" <tige...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qfdkr3t4043pu3jb0...@4ax.com...
>> "MoParMaN" <scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net>. we live in a world
>> that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.
>> Whose gonna do it? You? You, "MoParMaN"
>> <scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net>?
>>
>>>That could be true. But since he didn't state his kids had problems, I
>>>assumed he was an idot. If one opens ones mouth in this here chat room,
>>>one
>>>should provide all the faqs, or one will be bombarded with all kinds of
>>>good
>>>advise. In his case and in my humble opinion, he shouldn't have posted
>>>at
>>>all about his problem if he wasn't entertaining ideas or opinions from
>>>other
>>>noosegroop members.
>>>
>>>Course he prolly didn't know this, after all, he is a CANOOK!!
>>
>> Heh... you crack me up, MoParDood.
>>
> Yes, but when I'm right, I'm right!
I must have missed that poast or something, eh?
John Rogers
walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
>"John Rogers" <tige...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:4idkr395mgj3adlfp...@4ax.com...
>> Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan). we live in a world that has
>> walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
>> gonna do it? You? You, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)?
>>
>>>I would not be capable of raising such a child.
>>
>> I can't even imagine what it would be like.
>>
>> But greatly admire the people who can and do.
>
>I meant to mention this before, but forgot. Hugh, you could do it, (so
>could you, John). It takes adjustment, but then I'm not sure I know what
>it's like to raise "normal" (if I can say that) kids so I don't really have
>anything to compare it to. But I know that any decent person would do
>whatever it took for their kids and their family. Hell, even Mianderson
>would adjust, methinks.
>
>Funny, how many times I've been told by friends, and even family, that "God"
>chose my wife and I to be the parents of these special kids, that special
>people are "chosen" and only those that can do it, etc. Being an admitted
>Atheist, obviously I don't believe it, but I take the compliment as it's
>intended. Personally I take it as challenge.
"God" chose you and your wife to be the parents of these special kids?
I am a firm believer in God and his Son but, no, IMO he didn't choose
you, Bill. Your kids are lucky, indeed, that you are your wife ARE
their parents, but that has nothing to do with God's "choice".
If that was the case, then God is a mighty cruel and heartless bastard
when he puts some of these kids that have special needs with parents
that couldn't give two flips about'em (or often even abuse them).
But your friends may just be saying that as their way to compliment
you and your wife for what you do instead of actually seriously
believing what they say.
J. Hugh Sullivan
<scott.hend...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>I was throwing a few casts with a rattle-n-trap this afternoon. Caught a 10
>pound Pickerel....I wonder if you can eat those things?
>
>--
>------MoParMaN------
>---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
>--Remove Clothes to Reply!--
I've never caught one but my oldest son has. We were at Toledo Bend
and a cold front passed on the second day. John caught a 5# pickerel -
the only fish caught that morning. It didn't look like something I
would eat if I had another choice.
Did you have a wire leader?
Hugh
MoParMaN
has them too. I caught several the first weekend Lake Fork opened. I'm not
sure, but I think they put them in east Texas lakes to help control the
goldfish.
--
------MoParMaN------
---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
--Remove Clothes to Reply!--
TEDWARD Said:
J. Hugh Sullivan
<discg...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>"John Rogers" <tige...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:4idkr395mgj3adlfp...@4ax.com...
>> Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan). we live in a world that has
>> walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose
>> gonna do it? You? You, Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)?
>>
>>>I would not be capable of raising such a child.
>>
>> I can't even imagine what it would be like.
>>
>> But greatly admire the people who can and do.
>
>I meant to mention this before, but forgot. Hugh, you could do it, (so
>could you, John). It takes adjustment, but then I'm not sure I know what
>it's like to raise "normal" (if I can say that) kids so I don't really have
>anything to compare it to. But I know that any decent person would do
>whatever it took for their kids and their family. Hell, even Mianderson
>would adjust, methinks.
One of the grandkids in TX is ADHD they think - he is hyper and
concentration is short except TV games.
You work with one in short bursts. The other will stay as long as I
can practicing football and baseball and he rarely needs help with
homework. I can still do 6th grade work!
I can't help myself but I'm gravitating to the kid who sticks with it.
He fishes and golfs and I find myself buying him extra things. They
both love guns and we went skeet shooting the last time they were here
- both did very well for 12 and 9. They both snow ski
I don't think anyone else notices the difference in how I feel but I
know - and I'm working on it. Both are really likeable kids and they
really enjoy being around us - or have been taught to pretend they do.
But I have been involved in so many fun things they naturally get
interested. One really got interested in my ham radio.
I was hyperactive until I was about 75 and I've always been quickly
bored if things didn't move fast enough.
>Funny, how many times I've been told by friends, and even family, that "God"
>chose my wife and I to be the parents of these special kids, that special
>people are "chosen" and only those that can do it, etc. Being an admitted
>Atheist, obviously I don't believe it, but I take the compliment as it's
>intended. Personally I take it as challenge.
I don't think God takes an active hand in matters like that. I think
things happen. I think a belief in God helps us psychologically as in
what you said above.
>I'm sure I've posted this before, but to explain that last sentence: I
>remember reading years ago that the parents of multiples have twice the
>divorce rate of parents of singletons. Just a year or so ago, at a "Parent
>of Special Needs Kids Survival Course" they told us that parents of special
>needs kids have an 80% (it might have been higher) divorce rate. So, what
>does that make it for the combination? Every time I just want to check out
>and/or cash in, I just remember those odds, and that we've beaten them. Our
>marriage is less than ideal, but we -have- a family, and I'll be damned if
>I'll let anything end that.
A marriage takes work at best - kids alone create enough
complications. I suspect my wife is the only female who could have
tolerated me for almost 60 years (other than my mother and I left home
when I was 17). I have an ideal marriage - I'm not sure she does.
I admire your courage - I wish you could find God, too.
Hugh