Michigan and LSU have ...
stephenj
that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
they had ever played.
makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
big powers many times.
--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."
- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official
Will Vaughan
"stephenj" <sj...@cox.net> wrote
> .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge
> newspaper.
>
> that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
> football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>
> irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
> they had ever played.
>
> ass handed to them by all the big powers many times.
IFYPFY
Jon Enslin
foes currently in Division 1A. 54 of these foes are currently members
of BCS conferences. Of its top 20 all time foes, 18 are current BCS
members.
Notre Dame played a total of 1,045 games against 71 foes currently in
D1A. 51 are currently BCS members. Of its top 20 all time foes, only
16 are current BCS members.
Jon
Carl Lunsdtedt
stephenj wrote:
> .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>
> that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
> football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>
> irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
> they had ever played.
>
> makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
> big powers many times.
Last year was the first time Nebraska had played Meatchicken.
Perhaps they shouldn't be the Wolverines, but rather the Dodgers.
Carl Lundstedt
UNL
dam
On Nov 29, 2:04 pm, "Carl Lunsdtedt" <clun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
> > .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>
> > that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
> > football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>
> > irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
> > they had ever played.
>
> > makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
> > big powers many times.Last year was the first time Nebraska had played Meatchicken.
>
> Perhaps they shouldn't be the Wolverines, but rather the Dodgers.
>
> Carl Lundstedt
> UNL
Dood,
Michigan (2-3-1)
Date Site Result NU Rank/Opp Attendance
12/28/2005 San Antonio* W 32-28 /20 62,016
01/01/1986 Tempe* L 23-27 7/5 72,454
09/29/1962 Ann Arbor W 25-13 57,254
10/27/1917 Ann Arbor L 0-20
11/25/1911 Lincoln-HC T 6-6
10/21/1905 Ann Arbor L 0-31
* Fiesta Bowl
dam
James Gibson
stephenj wrote:
> .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>
> that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
> football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>
> irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
> they had ever played.
>
> makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
> big powers many times.
First, you're going to have to define "all the big powers" and "many
times."
Here are some of the number of times Notre Dame has played these
programs (all of these are 5 or fewer):
Auburn - 0
Clemson - 2
Colorado - 5 (3 times in bowl games)
Florida - 1 (in the Sugar Bowl)
Georgia - 1 (in the Sugar Bowl)
Ohio State - 5 (1 time in Fiesta Bowl)
Texas A&M - 5 (3 times in Cotton Bowl)
UCLA - 3
Virginia Tech - 0
West Virginia - 4 (1 time in Fiesta Bowl)
Carl Lunsdtedt
well shit.
Carl Lundstedt
UNL
hankde...@hotmail.com
Dumbass!
S Zecker
schedule for most of its 127 years of football has played more
different 1A opponents than a team that has been free of any conference
scheduling limitations for its entire 120 years or so of its football
existence.
Jon Enslin
S Zecker wrote:
> That is pretty amazing-- a team that has been locked into a conference
> schedule for most of its 127 years of football has played more
> different 1A opponents than a team that has been free of any conference
> scheduling limitations for its entire 120 years or so of its football
> existence.
That's why Jaros' bullshit regarding how ND plays the "national powers
all the time" is just so stupid.
NDs top opponent all time - Navy
Michigan - Ohio State.
Jon
Eric Ramon
James Gibson wrote:
>
> First, you're going to have to define "all the big powers" and "many
> times."
>
> Here are some of the number of times Notre Dame has played these
> programs (all of these are 5 or fewer):
>
> Auburn - 0
> Clemson - 2
> Colorado - 5 (3 times in bowl games)
> Florida - 1 (in the Sugar Bowl)
> Georgia - 1 (in the Sugar Bowl)
> Ohio State - 5 (1 time in Fiesta Bowl)
> Texas A&M - 5 (3 times in Cotton Bowl)
> UCLA - 3
> Virginia Tech - 0
> West Virginia - 4 (1 time in Fiesta Bowl)
Yeah but what about Army? ND's played Army a lot! and Army has had some
really good teams like with Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside. You leftout
Navy too, which has been really good even more recently than Army (only
40-odd years ago).
Of course it's fun to bash ND but they usually do have a decent
schedule.
Mackerel Snapping Anarchist
Hmm... I see 4 that might be called "big powers" in that list. And one
of those has only been so for maybe 20 years, and that really only
during one coach's tenure, who is now gone. So I'm down to 3. I would
put at a minimum 10-15 as a "many times". Either way, it's odd that
people still respond to Jarosian bate nonsense.
--
TO
Jay Furr
stephenj wrote:
> .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>
> that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
> football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>
> irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
> they had ever played.
>
> makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
> big powers many times.
Bait. They've never played the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater
Warhawks.
Jay Furr
James Gibson wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
> > .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
> >
> > that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
> > football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
> >
> > irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
> > they had ever played.
> >
> > makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
> > big powers many times.
>
> First, you're going to have to define "all the big powers" and "many
> times."
>
> Here are some of the number of times Notre Dame has played these
> programs (all of these are 5 or fewer):
>
FEER THE HOKIE
James Gibson
I'm not trying to bash ND's schedule. They play U$C and Michigan very
frequently, and powers that made my cutoff included Nebraska, Oklahoma,
Miami, Florida State, Penn State, Texas, LSU, and Alabama. I'm just
trying to figure out what Jaros means by his statement.
stephenj
earth to Enslin: "BCS members" doesn't equal "big powers". USF and
Cincinnatti are BCS members, for what that's worth.
Big powers are schools like USC, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, LSU,
Georgia, Florida, Alabama, FSU, Miami, WVU, Auburn, Tennessee, Ohio
State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Penn State ... a few others.
stephenj
yes, as of 2003 - they hadn't played LSU, Nebraska, or Texas - 3 major
powers - in their entire history. astonishing.
stephenj
that goes double for me. ;)
stephenj
> stephenj wrote:
>
>>.. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>>
>>that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
>>football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>>
>>irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
>>they had ever played.
>>
>>makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
>>big powers many times.
>
>
> First, you're going to have to define "all the big powers"
see my reply to enslin for a list of big powers.
rich hammett
olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Mackerel Snapping Anarchist:
> James Gibson wrote:
>> stephenj wrote:
>> > .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>> >
>> > that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
>> > football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>> >
>> > irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
>> > they had ever played.
>> >
>> > makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
>> > big powers many times.
>>
>> First, you're going to have to define "all the big powers" and "many
>> times."
>>
>> Here are some of the number of times Notre Dame has played these
>> programs (all of these are 5 or fewer):
>> Auburn - 0
>> Clemson - 2
>> Colorado - 5 (3 times in bowl games)
>> Florida - 1 (in the Sugar Bowl)
>> Georgia - 1 (in the Sugar Bowl)
>> Ohio State - 5 (1 time in Fiesta Bowl)
>> Texas A&M - 5 (3 times in Cotton Bowl)
>> UCLA - 3
>> Virginia Tech - 0
>> West Virginia - 4 (1 time in Fiesta Bowl)
> Hmm... I see 4 that might be called "big powers" in that list.
All time winning percentage ranking among current I-A:
Auburn 17
Clemson 34
Colorado 20
Florida 18
Georgia 12
Ohier Stayed 6
TamU 22
UCLA 30
VaTech 25
WVa 33
Of course, Army is #29, Syracuse is #26, Bowling Green is #24,
Miami-Ohio is #14 (right behind their sister school in Fla), and
Teh University of Alabama is #4, so this list is all about
past glory.
rich
> And one
> of those has only been so for maybe 20 years, and that really only
> during one coach's tenure, who is now gone. So I'm down to 3. I would
> put at a minimum 10-15 as a "many times". Either way, it's odd that
> people still respond to Jarosian bate nonsense.
> --
> TO
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ --I am sick of the self-absorbed city of New York.
Ralph Kennedy
> .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>
> that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
> football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>
> irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
> they had ever played.
>
> makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
> big powers many times.
What's with all the rancid Not Her Dinero bate
coming from Jaros lately?
--Ralph Kennedy {ames,gatech,husc6,rutgers}!ncar!noao!asuvax!kennedy
{allegra,decvax,ihnp4,oddjob}--^
^---------------The Wrong Choice
internet: ken...@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Ralph Kennedy
> dam wrote:
> > "Carl Lunsdtedt" <clun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Last year was the first time Nebraska had played Meatchicken.
> > >
> > > Perhaps they shouldn't be the Wolverines, but rather the Dodgers.
> >
> >
> > Michigan (2-3-1)
> > Date Site Result NU Rank/Opp Attendance
> > 12/28/2005 San Antonio* W 32-28 /20 62,016
> > 01/01/1986 Tempe* L 23-27 7/5 72,454
> > 09/29/1962 Ann Arbor W 25-13 57,254
> > 10/27/1917 Ann Arbor L 0-20
> > 11/25/1911 Lincoln-HC T 6-6
> > 10/21/1905 Ann Arbor L 0-31
> > * Fiesta Bowl
> >
> > dam
> oh.
> well shit.
CLAS51C NUBRA5KA D3N1AL!!!@!!!1!!!!!!
Jon Enslin
stephenj wrote:
> Jon Enslin wrote:
> > Prior to this year, Michigan played a total of 1,137 games against 74
> > foes currently in Division 1A. 54 of these foes are currently members
> > of BCS conferences. Of its top 20 all time foes, 18 are current BCS
> > members.
> >
> > Notre Dame played a total of 1,045 games against 71 foes currently in
> > D1A. 51 are currently BCS members. Of its top 20 all time foes, only
> > 16 are current BCS members.
>
> earth to Enslin: "BCS members" doesn't equal "big powers". USF and
> Cincinnatti are BCS members, for what that's worth.
>
> Big powers are schools like USC, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, LSU,
> Georgia, Florida, Alabama, FSU, Miami, WVU, Auburn, Tennessee, Ohio
> State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Penn State ... a few others.
If you want to go through the list of teams each has played and count
up the "big" opponents, that's fine. A quick glace shows that ND
didn't play national powers in any greater numbers than Michigan.
I think you are pretty much full of it here.
Jon
rich hammett
> stephenj <sj...@cox.net> writes:
>> .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>>
>> that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
>> football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>>
>> irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
>> they had ever played.
>>
>> makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
>> big powers many times.
> What's with all the rancid Not Her Dinero bate
> coming from Jaros lately?
I suspect he's doing what all the Cool Conservatives are doing and
becoming a raving lunatic medieval-type conservative Catholic.
rich
stephenj
as of 2003, Michigan hadn't played texas and lsu. that's two very big
powers. can you think of any that ND hasn't played?
Jon Enslin
stephenj wrote:
> Jon Enslin wrote:
> > stephenj wrote:
> >
> >>Jon Enslin wrote:
> >>
> >>>Prior to this year, Michigan played a total of 1,137 games against 74
> >>>foes currently in Division 1A. 54 of these foes are currently members
> >>>of BCS conferences. Of its top 20 all time foes, 18 are current BCS
> >>>members.
> >>>
> >>>Notre Dame played a total of 1,045 games against 71 foes currently in
> >>>D1A. 51 are currently BCS members. Of its top 20 all time foes, only
> >>>16 are current BCS members.
> >>
> >>earth to Enslin: "BCS members" doesn't equal "big powers". USF and
> >>Cincinnatti are BCS members, for what that's worth.
> >>
> >>Big powers are schools like USC, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, LSU,
> >>Georgia, Florida, Alabama, FSU, Miami, WVU, Auburn, Tennessee, Ohio
> >>State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Penn State ... a few others.
> >
> >
> >
> > If you want to go through the list of teams each has played and count
> > up the "big" opponents, that's fine. A quick glace shows that ND
> > didn't play national powers in any greater numbers than Michigan.
> >
> > I think you are pretty much full of it here.
>
> as of 2003, Michigan hadn't played texas and lsu. that's two very big
> powers. can you think of any that ND hasn't played?
Just because ND scheduled a handful of games over the course of the
last 100 years with someone doesn't mean they have played "all the big
powers many times." I mean, Michigan has played Ohio State 103 times
while ND has played them 5.
Considering that Michigan plays a conference schedule and the best two
you can come up with is LSU (since they now *have* played Texas), you
position is very pathetic.
Jon
stephenj
"many times" is incorrect. but surely they've played more of the big
powers than michigan has. that was the point.
Jon Enslin
You are the one that said "many times." If you are simply saying that
it is more diverse that Michigan's in terms of the major powers, then
you *might* be right. But the overall schedule strength that Michigan
and ND have played over time have been relatively equal.
Jon
stephenj
didn't i just say that?
> If you are simply saying that
> it is more diverse that Michigan's in terms of the major powers, then
> you *might* be right.
i'm right.
Jon Enslin
I'm not saying you aren't, but asserting you are without proof is
pretty lame.
Jon
stephenj
fair point.
for the big powers i listed, here's how many times they've played:
USC: M: 9 times, ND: 78 times
Oklahoma: M: 1 time (1975), ND: 9 times
Nebraska: M: 6 times, ND: 16 times
Texas: M: 1 time, ND: 10 times
LSU: M: 0 times, ND: 9 times
Georgia: M: 2 times (1965), ND: 1 time (1980)
Florida: M: 1 time (2002), ND: 1 time
Alabama: M: 3 times, ND: 6 times
FSU: M: 2 times (1991), ND: 6 times
Miami: M: 2 times (1988), ND: 23 times
WVU: M: 1 time (1904), ND: 4 times
Auburn: M: 2 times, ND: 0 times
Tennessee: M: 1 time, ND: 8 times
Ohio State: tOSU: 103 times, ND: 6 times
penn state: 12 times, ND: 18 times
So we see that among these 15 powers, ND has played 11 of them more
times than Michigan has, Michigan has played 3 of them more times than
ND has, and one they've played the same # of times.
Michigan has played 10 of these schools 2 or fewer times, with Notre
Dame that's the case with just 3 of them.
Overall, even accounting for the bloated tOSU advantage for Michigan, ND
has cumulatively played these teams 49 more times than Michigan has.
Verdict: I was right. :)
Jon Enslin
Uhhh...I guess. I mean how many times did ND play Miami when Miami
sucked? Conversely, how many times did Michigan or ND play Army and
Navy when they were good...or Iowa....or A&M....or Washington, etc.
etc. etc.
Jon
stephenj
> Uhhh...I guess.
well duh.
> I mean how many times did ND play Miami when Miami
> sucked? Conversely, how many times did Michigan or ND play Army and
> Navy when they were good.
ND probably a lot more.
Remember, Michigan's head-head with schools like tOSU is inflated. they
beat tOSU 12 times before tOSU beat them once (all before 1914), when
tOSU wasn't even a "division I" program.
They were 5-1 during that time vs. Notre Dame, when ND was similarly not
division 1. They are 11-13-1 vs. Notre Dame since the time they both
were division 1 (1941).
so michigan feasted on lots of patsies that are now called "top programs".
Vijay Ramanujan
stephenj wrote:
> Overall, even accounting for the bloated tOSU advantage for Michigan,
Bloated advantage... heh.
Ya, tricky Michigan pulling the wool over everyone's eyes by playing
one of the best programs in cfb every year.
This is really simple, Jaros: when you play a conference schedule you
play the same teams every year pretty much. There's nothing extra to
"appreciate" about playing two top teams 5 times each versus playing
the same one 10 times. Nothing meaningful.
Vijay R.
stephenj
> stephenj wrote:
>
>
>>Overall, even accounting for the bloated tOSU advantage for Michigan,
> This is really simple, Jaros: when you play a conference schedule you
> play the same teams every year pretty much. There's nothing extra to
> "appreciate" about playing two top teams 5 times each versus playing
> the same one 10 times. Nothing meaningful.
not when it's a case of playing say Ohio State 10 times vs. Ohio State 5
times and Michigan 5 times, because those are two schools from the same
part of the country, same general style of play - inbred regional
conference stuff.
But if it's playing Ohio State 10 times vs. say USC and Michigan 5 times
each, sure there is. It's more challenging to prepare for different
styles of play.
plus, ND played those teams 49 more times than michigan has.
abor...@redshark.goodshow.net
Exactly - playing Army in the mid '40s was playing a "big power", playing
FSU pre-Bowden wasn't. Playing Yale in the early 1900s was playing a
"big power", playing ND in the early 1900s wasn't. Playing Michigan State
in 1960s was playing a "big power", playing Michigan State post 1960s
wasn't.
--
Aaron
Vijay Ramanujan
stephenj wrote:
> But if it's playing Ohio State 10 times vs. say USC and Michigan 5 times
> each, sure there is. It's more challenging to prepare for different
> styles of play.
In different years?
It's really more challenging preparing for Alabama in 1975 and Miami in
1985 than preparing for OSU in both?
Bizarre.
Vijay R.
stephenj
it's not 'different years', because the aggregate data reflects what
happens in the typical year. ND prepares for teams like USC and
Michigan, Michigan prepares for teams like tOSU and Wisconsin.
chaboard
In addition to that, there's also the fact that for decades
Michigan was frequently locked into a bowl game against
USC or UCLA while Notre Dame was free to go to any bowl.
At a minimum, bowl games need to be subtracted out before
making the comparison since the point of the comparison
seemed to directed at scheduling.
But I propose a quick tiebreaker to settle the question
easily with no muss - which of the two has had the nerve
to face the mighty Demon Deacons most often?
stephenj
>
>
> Vijay Ramanujan wrote:
>
>> stephenj wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Overall, even accounting for the bloated tOSU advantage for Michigan,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bloated advantage... heh.
>> Ya, tricky Michigan pulling the wool over everyone's eyes by playing
>> one of the best programs in cfb every year.
>>
>> This is really simple, Jaros: when you play a conference schedule you
>> play the same teams every year pretty much. There's nothing extra to
>> "appreciate" about playing two top teams 5 times each versus playing
>> the same one 10 times. Nothing meaningful.
>
>
> In addition to that,
in addition? there's nothing there.
> there's also the fact that for decades
> Michigan was frequently locked into a bowl game against
> USC or UCLA while Notre Dame was free to go to any bowl.
> At a minimum, bowl games need to be subtracted out before
> making the comparison since the point of the comparison
> seemed to directed at scheduling.
same thing. michigan chose, and chooses, to stay locked in their
regional schedule and the associated bowl affiliations.
Dale Bright®
<james.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>stephenj wrote:
>> .. never played each other, at least accoring to the baton rouge newspaper.
>>
>> that's pretty astonishing: two big-time programs, have been playing
>> football since 1880 and 1893 respectively, and they've never played!
>>
>> irrc, when texas and michigan played in 2003, that was the first time
>> they had ever played.
>>
>> makes you appreciate a program like Notre Dame, that has played all the
>> big powers many times.
>
>First, you're going to have to define "all the big powers" and "many
>times."
>
>Here are some of the number of times Notre Dame has played these
>programs (all of these are 5 or fewer):
>
>Auburn - 0
>Clemson - 2
>Colorado - 5 (3 times in bowl games)
>Florida - 1 (in the Sugar Bowl)
>Georgia - 1 (in the Sugar Bowl)
>Ohio State - 5 (1 time in Fiesta Bowl)
>Texas A&M - 5 (3 times in Cotton Bowl)
>UCLA - 3
>Virginia Tech - 0
>West Virginia - 4 (1 time in Fiesta Bowl)
Tennessee has played Michigan one time before.
Dale Bright®
"non compos mentis"