Foil wireing glue? Best way to bend a tang?
David W. Neevel
other USFA armorers). If you're having trouble with a superglue, then
the problem most likely lies not in the glue you're using but in how
well the groove is getting cleaned out prior to wiring. I find that
getting the groove thouroughly clean (down to bare metal) of all old
glue and insulation (and manufacturing residue in the case of new
blades) is _the single_ most important key to getting good adhesion. If
you have a clean groove, just about any reasonable glue (Duco,
Fletch-Tite, cyanoacrylates, etc.) will work fine.
If you don't have the time or muscle to scrape it out with a utility
blade, then either soak it in an acetone bath, or use a Dremel tool with
a cut-off wheel to scour the groove (wear eye protection).
-Dave Neevel
D. S. Goldsmith wrote:
>
> Well, super glue just isn't working like I'm sure somthing else should,
> so what is the best glue for foil blades? Secondly, without a vise and a
> work table what's the best way to put a nice bend in a tang? Even with a
> vice it seems there should be a better way than just clamping on a
> wrench and curseing a bunch.
>
> Thanks,
> David
David W. Neevel
wrench (the type with an open crescent at one end and a loop socket at
the other). I use one sized for 1-1/8" nuts-- it's about 15" long, of
hardened, tempered steel. Feed the tang through the loop and sqeeze the
shank and blade together to put the bend in-- the long, stout shank will
give you plenty of leverage. I find it works better than a vise. A
Wonderbar prybar (with the nail pulling hole) is a cheaper (but less
effective alternative).
D. S. Goldsmith
Dirk Goldgar
partial to Weldbond, myself. We used to use silicone sealants, but it seems
to me that it doesn't stick very well to maraging steel.
I'm not sure how you're going about bending your tang. I prefer to use a
bench-mounted vise myself, but I've never had to use a wrench with it. Just
clamp the tang in the vise and pull on the forte of the blade. If you don't
have a vise handy, you can use the hole in the handle of a good steel
wrench. Just slide the tang into the hole to the point where the wrench
provides a fulcrum at the right point, and squeeze the wrench toward the
blade.
--
Dirk Goldgar
(to reply via email, remove NOSPAM from address)
D. S. Goldsmith wrote in message ...
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Huw Pritchard
Goldsmith" <dav...@freenet.tlh.fl.us> wrote:
> Well, super glue just isn't working like I'm sure somthing else should,
> so what is the best glue for foil blades? Secondly, without a vise and a
> work table what's the best way to put a nice bend in a tang? Even with
> a vice it seems there should be a better way than just clamping on a
> wrench and curseing a bunch.
Don't know whether it's available in the states, but I'm fond of Evostik.
If you can get a hypodermic syringe it goes into the groove quite easily.
--
Huw Pritchard
Send spam straight to your ISP's abuse mailbox,
That's where it'll end up, anyway.
Nigel Cotman
broken blades (forte end) and a vice. i use blu-tack to hold the old blades
in the vice jaws in the steps below.
put the blade to be bent (the work) into a vice, with the jaws wide open.
hold the work horizontal through the vice, slot up, tang to the RHS. keep
holding it for the next few steps. this is for a right handed fencer.
place one old blade, vertical, on the far side of the work to the LHS of the
vice jaw and stick in place with blu-tack. place the second old blade,
vertical, between the far jaw and the tang, just the the left of the thead
and stick in place. the third old blade is placed vertically between the
vice jaw closest to you and the work, exactly level with and on the shoulder
of the work (where the blade meets the tang).
the blutack will keep the vertical old blades in place as you close up the
jaws to place pressure on the work and hold it firmly so you can release the
work. make sure everthing is stable because you are about to exert
considerable force on the structure. if you are in doubt, don't continue
until you are confident that under pressure the elements will not fly out of
the vice.
that done, continue to close the vice, gently. the two old blades on the far
side of the work gently bend the work around the pivot of the old bade
closest to you. if you have the far right old blade close enough to the
pivot the bend will not cause a curve in the tang. to do a double set
(vertical plane and horizontal) repeat the process by releasing the pressure
and rotating the blade away from you.
this way you get consistent set of your foils. keep an old set foil as a
"template" to check the set is correct on new blades.
a simpler process is put the blade to be bent on a table with the handle
aver the edge. have someone stand on the blade on the table. with at least
the grip on the tang (if not the guard and all other furniture), lean on the
grip until the tang bends. my coach who was 60k wringing wet could set a
foil this way, no problem. however, this is not for the faint hearted but
with practice can be done quickly and correctly. you may break the blade.
the grip being on the blade stops "banana" shaped tang which will stop a
grip sliding on correctly, if at all.
these are ideas that work for me. i cannot guarantee them and don't. blade
quality alone will probably affect the outcome. so will patience, the size
and quality of a vice or the size and quality of the bloke (or otherwise)
standing on the blade and the one swinging on the grip.
how long are you letting superglue cure for before unbending the blade?
"D. S. Goldsmith" <dav...@freenet.tlh.fl.us> wrote in message
news:davesg-00081C....@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
> Well, super glue just isn't working like I'm sure somthing else should,
> so what is the best glue for foil blades? Secondly, without a vise and a
> work table what's the best way to put a nice bend in a tang? Even with a
> vice it seems there should be a better way than just clamping on a
> wrench and curseing a bunch.
>
> David
Todd
1. First make sure your using cloth covered wire. Plastic insulation
doesn't bond to glue that well.
2. Remove the old wire. COMPLETELY clean wire groove. A jeweler's
screwdriver or one of those "thingies" with adjustable razor blades that
break off work well. Use razor blade to scrape old glue, tape, etc. Clean
blade completely (A warrior's blade reflects his soul, mine's always a
little bent ;).
3. Insert wire blade through barrel, do not seat connection in the barrel.
CAREFULLY thread barrel onto blade.
Make sure that wire is seated in groove will barrel is threaded on to
blade. Once barrel is tightened. Pull wire through groove until
connection is touching barrel tip (the open one). Using slight pulling
pressure on wire from blade end and concurrent pushing with tip tool
or jeweler's screwdriver, seat wire contact into barrel. Make sure
contact is seated properly.
4. Apply glue to wire. I use fletching glue with a notch cut in the tip for
the wire to run through allowing even distrubution over the wire, little
wasted glue, and less mess. Pull wire tight carefully, don't use to much
pressure that wire is pulled from contact. Run thumbnail along wire,
starting at barrel end and steadily (but quickly, fletching glue dries
relatively fast) seating wire into groove. Wrap or tape wire around tang so
that there is no play in wire. Run thumbnail along groove to ensure
wire is completely seated.
5. Place blade in doorway, window, film containers attached with string, or
whatever apparatus you use to keep an adequate bend in the blade. Allow
glue to dry overnight.
6. Once glue has dried, check carefully to ensure that the wire is still
seated once blade is unflexed. If wire pops out at any place, you need
to apply more glue, re-thumnail, and re-flex. This can take a couple of
times to get right if you haven't wired a blade before!
7. Once glue has dried again and the wire remains seated in groove upon
removal of flexion, you can apply the top glue.
8. OK this is a secret that has remained in my family since the very first
Merrifield picked up a foil (me). Now that wire glue is dry and wire is
completely seated, use artists paint brush to apply POLYURETHENE varnish
to the top of the wire. Dip paintbrush into varnish and touch wire with
paintbrush allowing varnish to run along groove. Continue applying until
entire groove is full. Allow first coat to dry, and apply second and third
allowing varnish to dry between applications(as many as you like, I
find two to be adequate). You don't have to bend blade between varnish
dryings. The bending is to allow the wire to be "stretched" so that it is
seated tightly allowing for better binding with the glue and so that it can
handle blade flexion.
Your blade is now wired. Carefully thread through sphaghetti insulation,
guard, socket, and pad, and tighten grip on. Carefully usse lighter to burn
insulation away, think of burning the insulation NOT THE WIRE. It is
possible to compensate the wire's integrity (the wires come from
manufaturers with loose morals) by applying to much heat to the wire. Wrap
part of wire extruding from sphaghetti around contact. And check out the
blade to see if everything works.
Hint: It helps to use a multimeter to check on the wire periodically
throughout the process. This can help you save a few hours of time.
Hope this helps, suggestion welcome, criticisms avenged.
Todd
Byron Medical
you will need:
1) a heavy friend
2) a step or ledge of some kind
3) a cresent wrench (Med) w/ a hole in the handle.
The tang should be over the edge of the step with the forte' supported. The
wire groove should be up.
Get your friend to stand with his heels on the forte', feet spread slightly
apart.
Now this is a bit tricky to discribe -take your cresent wrench (Small ones
won't give enough leverage you need about a six incher minimum [keep the
juvinile jokes to yourself])
pass the hole on the end of the wrench over the tang. holding the wrench up
(the cresent part should be in your hand) pull down carefuly.
You can easily over bend a tang this way and you want to be careful not to
dammage the threads. With a little bit of leverage it is quite easy
to get the result you want if you are slow and careful. it is also easy to
ruin a perfectly good blade if you crank down on the tang.
I have done this hundreds of time at my club and never ruined a blade. The
fencers are always happy with the result.
P.S.
it's probably not a good idea to tell you friend your reason for choosing
him/her to help.
Chow
B
"D. S. Goldsmith" wrote:
> Well, super glue just isn't working like I'm sure somthing else should,
> so what is the best glue for foil blades? Secondly, without a vise and a
> work table what's the best way to put a nice bend in a tang? Even with a
> vice it seems there should be a better way than just clamping on a
> wrench and curseing a bunch.
>
> Thanks,
> David
D. S. Goldsmith
tmer...@wvu.edu wrote:
> How to wire a blade (from my experience):
>
> 1. First make sure your using cloth covered wire. Plastic insulation
> doesn't bond to glue that well.
> 2. Remove the old wire. COMPLETELY clean wire groove. A jeweler's
> screwdriver or one of those "thingies" with adjustable razor blades
> that
> break off work well. Use razor blade to scrape old glue, tape, etc.
I appreciate all the advise and thought I'd share some too. It seems
that an awful lot of fencers go through trying to scrape the wire and
glue out of a blade with a razor or a screw driver. By far the easiest
thing to do is to go out to a hardware store, get a 40" or so legnth of
galvanized pipe, have it threaded on both ends, get a jug of acotone
(sp?) and some thread sealing tape. Seal one end of the pipe with the
tape and an end cap, fill with acotone and drop in all the blades you
want, in about twenty minutes you can pull them out and the wires will
just literally fall out and all the glue/grime/junk/crud will be gone.
Any barrels you couldn't get off will come off now as well. Maybe if you
just rewire a blade or two a year it's okay to just scrape away but I do
LOTS of blades, and this is by far easier and just plain better. Try it
out, see if you're team mates all want to chip in and get one for the
club.
David
P.S. Don't use PVC, acotone eats it, and make sure you seal the threads,
I found the tape to work well, but I've also used a propane torch and
some solder.
Erin Kelly
like such a hick, but we used to use door frames. Hotels were especially good
for this, because of their metal/concrete construction and the fact that there
was no lasting personal inconvenience if you, uh, find weaknesses in hinge
attachment.
The method is to open the door slightly and wedge the tang in between the door
and the doorframe (be careful to avoid clamping the door on the threads or you
can damage them). Pull smoothly by holding onto the base of the blade and
leaning in the appropriate direction. Since I usually bend blades inward and
slightly down, I had to reposition the blade to bend it in two directions.
There is always the risk of breaking the blade (don't do it cold!) and this
method has the additional risk of damaging the door in some circumstances: the
blade can gouge a notch into the wood of the door or door frame, scratch the
paint, or lever the hinge right off. See the tip above about hotels.
My method also seems potentially less exciting than Nigel's "have some bloke
stand on it" method...! On the other hand, I always found it easier to offset
blades by securing the tang and pushing on the blade, which would be impractical
using the standing bloke method.
ERIN
Nigel Cotman wrote:
> for bending (setting, or, more properly off-setting) a blade, i use three
> broken blades (forte end) and a vice. i use blu-tack to hold the old blades
> in the vice jaws in the steps below.
<...>
Fred Brunner
wrote:
>like such a hick, but we used to use door frames. Hotels were especially
brilliant. I wish I had thought of this myself, it's simple, and
uses a commodity available more or less everywhere (doors).
The best method is actually my preferred one, let the club armorer do
it for you, esp. if he employs one of the more complex methods described
in the ng here to either place a blade wire or bend the tang. I'd have
better luck defusing a nuclear warhead than in trying to execute a couple
of these schemes ;-)
--fb
Perry Quan
wrote:
>The method is to open the door slightly and wedge the tang in between the door
>and the doorframe (be careful to avoid clamping the door on the threads or you
>can damage them). Pull smoothly by holding onto the base of the blade and
>leaning in the appropriate direction. Since I usually bend blades inward and
>slightly down, I had to reposition the blade to bend it in two directions.
>
>There is always the risk of breaking the blade (don't do it cold!) and this
>method has the additional risk of damaging the door in some circumstances: the
>blade can gouge a notch into the wood of the door or door frame, scratch the
>paint, or lever the hinge right off. See the tip above about hotels.
That's why I use sewer grates. They're free. They're rugged. And
they're usually easy enough to find. Just don't get run over, or lose
your grip on the blade (kerplunk).
Dieter Schlaepfer
> That's why I use sewer grates. They're free. They're rugged. And
> they're usually easy enough to find. Just don't get run over, or lose
> your grip on the blade (kerplunk).
Or a car door. Just pop the blade in and slam the door. Jeep Cherokees
seem to get the best angle. This is an especially good technique when
traveling with a rented car. You can bend the tangs on the weapons for
your entire team without worrying about the funny dents in the door. Oh
yeah, it's probably a good idea to buy the extra rental insurance
though, just in case they notice and want to give you a hard time.*
Dieter
* Boy, I sure hope none of you actually try this!
Nigel Cotman
"Byron Medical" <by...@byronmedical.com> wrote in message
news:39CF8CE7...@byronmedical.com...
yeoldea...@pop.bois.uswest.net
Krazy glue. My favor is cemit from AFS if you have the time to let it dry
but at my repair booth at NAC I use Krazy glue. The secert to glue wireing
is a clean blade. I have acetone with me at NAC that i dip the blade it and
then I wipe it down. I use a 3/4 box end wrech to bend the tang with. slide
the box end down over the tang and bend it.
Tim
PAN CYAN
inpipe or a 1/4 long hole in a 8-12 in piece of wood