Is USAU Hiding Something? Their Bizarre Unwillingness to Talk to Us
Jeremy Kauffman
league registration services, a nationwide player ranking system, and
an improved score reporter. The USAU's event system has long been in
disrepair, so these changes are very welcome.
I recently contacted the USAU on the behalf of our consituents to ask
some questions about these changes. These changes are important not
just for us, but for every league that uses USAU across the country.
USAU's response? We're "too busy", perhaps we'll have time to talk
with you in a month.
Our TopScore service is used by 6 different organizations and over
6,000 players, yet the USAU is "too busy" for a ten minute
conversation? It makes us wonder if there are some aspects to these
changes that won't be too popular.
Our questions:
* For the USAU's new league registration system, will all players
required to be USAU members and pay USAU dues?
* Will Score Reporter be upgraded to include an interface so that
other sites (e.g. leaguevine.com) can integrate with them? If not,
why?
* Will the new league system be used for score reporting and rostering
as well, or just registration?
* Will the USAU's new registration system support 3rd-party
integration (via an API)?
* If no: why? Will players be forced to go to usaultimate.org to
register?
* If yes: can you elaborate on what aspects of USAU's system it can
interact with and how it would work?
* Why has the USAU taken a confrontational approach with us and our
services? All we're interested in is delivering better tools and
services to players and organizers.
* Why does the USAU clandestinely develop technology changes without
feedback or testing from it's members?
* What is the timeline for all of these changes?
What do you think about USAU's changes? Do you have questions? I'll be
directing Andy Lee (an...@hq.usaultimate.org), the USAU staff member in
charge, to this post.
josh murphy
Durham/Chapel Hill of North Carolina), which is one of the TopScore
customers that Jeremy mentions, I'd really appreciate the governing
body for the sport to consent to provide a little bit of information
to TopScore (even if it's subject to change within a month).
I realize that I am but one dues-paying member of USA Ultimate & I
have influence over only a few hundred others here in my area, but it
just makes sense to me that they'd be all about promoting the sport
thru organizations like TopScore that offer products that specifically
promote those of us that volunteer our time to the sport.
Sincerely,
Josh Murphy
(Raleigh, NC)
Smoothie
> What do you think about USAU's changes?
Not sure. Why don't we wait until we've seen them, so as to create an
informed opinion. Also, maybe let's not accuse them of 'hiding'
something just because we don't get the answers to our questions right
away. It's possible they just don't have the bandwidth to answer
questions from each random member who poses them on a quick turn
basis. Even my 4 year-old knows that sputtering indignation isn't
going to get him a cookie before dinner.
Euh
> going to get him a cookie before dinner.
Once everyone at the child day care center knows that you're so
uptight, maybe he'll get it ?
Jeremy Kauffman
That's kind of the point: we shouldn't have to wait until they're done
to start talking about them. A dramatic change shouldn't come out of
the blue, it should involve discussion and planning with those that it
effects.
I'm not a "random member", I'm the representative of the company that
provides web services for many different ultimate organizations,
probably 5+% of USAU's membership.
Do you truly believe that when the USAU says they won't be able to
answer the above questions for a month it's because they don't have
the ability, not because they don't want to?
BJones
Perhaps with DIII Nationals and DI Nationals occurring during this
time frame you may have just hit USAU in the busy season. I wouldn't
know though, just speculation.
Smoothie
> Do you truly believe that when the USAU says they won't be able to
> answer the above questions for a month it's because they don't have
> the ability, not because they don't want to?
I'm sure I don't know one way or another, but I'm sure that, not
knowing, I wouldn't title an RSD thread with a Fox-news style
accusatory weasel-worded question headline.
J Mac
For the same reason we shouldn't "wait until we've seen them" on
everything the USAU does...because they will have a shitty
implementation and spend the next year trying to fix all the huge
mistakes. Just look at the incredibly shitty release of the new
website last year. Only just now, a year later, is it starting to
improve but is still nowhere near where it should be. I still can't
find anything out about leagues (although I know they're working on
it) or local pickup. This is a "once burned, twice cautious"
situation. I like Matthew Bourland and it's clear that he works hard
but he definitely has too much on his plate.
As for your "random member" comment, if it is indeed true that they
are pressed for bandwidth like you say (and with which I agree), then
they need to use a triage system like an ER. In that case, someone
who represents a company that started about 6 months ago and already
serves 1/6th as many people as the USAU, and additionally has
extensive experience in a field you are planning on entering, is a
person that you should push higher on the list for bandwidth. As
someone who does business (through AUDA) with both TopScore for our
website and USAU for our league sanctioning and insurance, if I was
made to choose between them then I would take my business to Philly
and away from Boulder.
J mac
Jeremy Kauffman
Fair (and balanced :) point. The title is inflammatory. I was
frustrated by the lack of response I've gotten from the USAU through
every channel I've tried and perhaps should have phrased it
differently.
Nonetheless, I do think the USAU is refusing to answer these questions
is because there are answers to them that the ultimate playing public
will not like.
mgd.mitch
communication isn't great, I think "we're too busy" is a
perfectly reasonable response to questions about league
support when they are dealing with D3 nationals where they
lost all their fields and were -><- this close to cancelling
the whole thing, dealing with series rosters, implementing
the brand new college post season structure and D1
nationals. there are only so many hours in the day.
a few weeks after D1 nationals is over, ask about anything
you want and expect an answer and complain if you don't get
one.
--
Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com
Max Barowski
McCargo
public forum?
USAU has the right to not talk to you if they don't want
to.
I'm not in the Forbes 500 but I don't think this is the best
way to get new business.
ulticritic
> charge, to this post.
they wouldnt answer any of my questions either.......AND hgic, tom
craford, refused to let me interview him. they are just
pussies......no two ways about it
ulticritic
ulticritic
because they dont want to
ulticritic
> On May 24, 3:17 pm, Smoothie <jermle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 24, 12:07 pm, Jeremy Kauffman <jer...@usetopscore.com> wrote:
>
> > > Do you truly believe that when the USAU says they won't be able to
> > > answer the above questions for a month it's because they don't have
> > > the ability, not because they don't want to?
>
> > I'm sure I don't know one way or another, but I'm sure that, not
> > knowing, I wouldn't title an RSD thread with a Fox-news style
> > accusatory weasel-worded question headline.
>
> Fair (and balanced :) point. The title is inflammatory. I was
> frustrated by the lack of response I've gotten from the USAU through
> every channel I've tried and perhaps should have phrased it
> differently.
i liked it......and thought it was valid. why SHOULDNT member have
the freedom to openly critisize the administration?
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> Nonetheless, I do think the USAU is refusing to answer these questions
> is because there are answers to them that the ultimate playing public
> will not like.
which makes them pussies
ulticritic
> While I will be the first to agree USAU's track record on
> communication isn't great,
isnt great?????? IT ABSOLUTLY SUCKS.......amoungst MANY other things
they do that suck
-----------------------------------------------
I think "we're too busy" is a
> perfectly reasonable response to questions about league
> support when they are dealing with D3 nationals where they
> lost all their fields and were
as a company boy loyalist YOU WOULD
----------------------------------------------
-><- this close to cancelling
> the whole thing, dealing with series rosters, implementing
> the brand new college post season structure and D1
> nationals. there are only so many hours in the day.
>
> a few weeks after D1 nationals is over, ask about anything
> you want and expect an answer and complain if you don't get
> one.
FUCK YOU....we can complain how and when we want and dont need your
"jonny come lately" approval
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
> Why the heck would a business air out this grievance in a
> public forum?
cause this is where it will reach the most people.....duh
-------------------------------------------------------------
>
> USAU has the right to not talk to you if they don't want
> to.
sure.....if they want to be pussies about it
----------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm not in the Forbes 500 but I don't think this is the best
> way to get new business.
thats your opinion......i think its a good way
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
McCargo
but regardless. You are a business that is trying to get
their foot in the door. Right or wrong attacking a potential
client is not the way to go about it.
I'm an AE for an interactive ad agency. I try and sell out
serves everyday. If I pulled a stunt like this I would be
fired. Period.
Smoothie
Bulb
> You are a business that is trying to get their foot in
> the door.
Their foot's definitely already in the door, and given the
quality of the product they've delivered so far, combined
with the service they've provided (especially in the
communication/transparency department), they have nowhere to
go but up... or in, if we're still going with the
foot-in-door analogy.
And let's be honest. With all the hate and finger-pointing
towards USAU that goes on here (most of which is completely
unwarranted, uninformed, or unnecessary), does anyone REALLY
think the title of this thread will have any bearing on the
relationship between USAU and Topscore?
ulticritic
> Solid points on the quality of product that could be offered
> but regardless. You are a business that is trying to get
> their foot in the door. Right or wrong attacking a potential
> client is not the way to go about it.
eh, different strokes for different folks......who made you in charge
of how to get ones foot in the door. ever herd the phrase "theres
more than one way to skin a cat"?
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm an AE for an interactive ad agency.
that your fuckin business
------------------------------------------
I try and sell out
> serves everyday. If I pulled a stunt like this I would be
> fired. Period.
never know.....if a stunt like that worked you might get promoted.
like they say with surfing, no falls no balls
ulticritic
> On May 24, 3:15 pm, ulticritic <ulticri...@live.com> wrote:.
>
> > what does it get him/her?
>
> A timeout.
are you saying that the relationship between the usau admin and its
members is one of a parent/child dynamic? thats queer......especially
when its the memberships hardworking dollars that fund the
administrations livelyhood.
personally, in my house, when one of my kids gets hungry prior to
dinner, we give him or her a piece of fruit or somthing else that is
healthy........i guess we just have more compasion for our children
than to starve and isolate/confine them......but then again my wife
and i arent on any power trip like you and the usau administration.
Smoothie
Your usual BS...not worth of a response beyond this.
Random Guy
you just gotta click the top bar of ulticritic's post and minimize
them all... sooooo nice.
but USAU is looking to sanction/legitimize local, area leagues? like
summer leagues, player-run organizations, city-run leagues??
that is interesting... and I would like to eventually read the answers
to the original questions. but no rush, learned to also not let USAU
get to me
J Mac
Isn't the first rule of advertising to know your audience? What makes
you think that attacking the USAU (although that's not really what
he's doing here) will turn off potential clients?
J Mac
They already sanction leagues but they certainly aren't in a position
to legitimize anything. I too look forward to the answers though.
Pete
here.
Either way, I both agree and disagree with Jeremy's points.
I do believe that one of the big elements behind USAU's
League Organization strategy is to bring league players
under their umbrella and have them pay league fees. For a
league like ours in Madison, it is implausible for us to
join such a system. We have over 3,000 players for our
summer league (3,084, to be precise) paying $28 for the
summer. The USA Ultimate registration would cost more than
the league fee. If they offered us this system, we will
likely reject it.
I saw a demonstration of Jeremy's TopScore system at the
USAU Organizer's Conference. It was a good system. We chose
not to switch only because we have a computer programmer on
our board who has made a quite capable (and free) system. I
would recommend leagues check out TopScore, it looked slick.
I agree with some of his earlier questions, although I do
think this is the wrong time of year to be expecting USAU to
be quick about future plans when there are Nationals to be
run. I remember how much work last year's College Nationals
in Madison was....
Pete Schramm
Madison Ultimate Frisbee Association
mvuong
title is just damaging what you are trying to do. I think if
you ask not this coming weekend, but the weekend after that,
I'm sure they will be much more willing to give the full
response that you need. As it stands, I'm sure most of
Boulder is getting everything ready for D1 championships.
If you posted this in a time with nothing else going on, we
could be up in arms with you despite your ridiculous title.
I look forward to seeing what their answers are.
And yes, if you have a block on ulticritic, it worked out
really well for you this thread.
ulticritic
>
> Your usual BS...not worth of a response beyond this.
thats because you HAVE NO response beyond this........you are
responseless
- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
ulticritic
do they have to "get to you" in order to constructivly critisize
them.......or even talk shit about em? i dont!
ulticritic
>
> Isn't the first rule of advertising to know your audience? What makes
> you think that attacking the USAU (although that's not really what
> he's doing here) will turn off potential clients?
word......it MIGHT turn them on.
ulticritic
> I too look forward to the answers though.
dont hold yalls breath
ulticritic
> I agree with some of his earlier questions, although I do
> think this is the wrong time of year to be expecting USAU to
> be quick about future plans when there are Nationals to be
> run.
cant they at least throw us a bone though and give some basic feedback
and communication? i mean, if theyve discussed it an its in the works
shurly they have a basic overview.........so what s o hard about
providing that THEN going into ignore mode.
---------------------------------------------------------
I remember how much work last year's College Nationals
> in Madison was....
but wasnt it you folks in madison doing all of it? dont they have
locals that ARENT usau administrators that can pull off that event. i
ran tournies for over a decade (one of em was college
nationals......and this was when we WERENT ALLOWED TO CHARGE ENTRY
FEES.....89' jack) and it got to the point for me where i could run
them im my sleep......SINGLE HANDEDLY even
ulticritic
> Agreed with the others. The sensational fox news-like topic
> title is just damaging what you are trying to do.
to me this is more of a "real time with bill maher" topic......talking
shit about the gop
-------------------------------------------------
I think if
> you ask not this coming weekend, but the weekend after that,
> I'm sure they will be much more willing to give the full
> response that you need. As it stands, I'm sure most of
> Boulder is getting everything ready for D1 championships.
so they cant take 5 minutes to provide a brief overview.........pretty
weak
-----------------------------------------------------
>
> If you posted this in a time with nothing else going on, we
> could be up in arms with you despite your ridiculous title.
> I look forward to seeing what their answers are.
like i said, dont hold your breath
----------------------------------------------
>
> And yes, if you have a block on ulticritic, it worked out
> really well for you this thread.
unless your a fan. i mean, what kind of pussy is that much of a pussy
that they must block/censore another person. i guess its the kind
that really gets hurt by the truth
Sue
also interested in what USAU has to say.
TopScore's service and communication has been sterling. They've
provided a great product with tons of support. Yes the title of this
post was inflammatory but I think it's an attitude born of frustration
more than anything else.
Granted it's a busy time of year for USAU but is the person who'd be
dealing with developing future content for USAU's site realistically
the same person who would be up to their eyeballs in work because of
Nationals? I know it's a relatively small organization but if you
discount the month before and after both college and club nationals
then you've lost the ability to communicate with USAU for 4 months out
of the year. That stinks.
One of the points that was brought up by TopScore when this issue was
presented to those of us that utilize their service was that USAU was
not interested in allowing TopScore to advertise their product through
USAU in addition to the 'talk to us in a month' part of the
discussion. If that's true, then the delay of communication on USAU's
part seems more sinister. Why turn down advertising dollars unless
TopScore would be seen as a competitor for a future product?
I suppose I'm skeptical. At the DC organizers' conference, there was
a session on liability and risk that seemed like a hard sell of USAU's
insurance policies rather than a general information session. I'd
like USAU as an organization to be a resource rather than try to
monopolize the business of its members and affiliates for its own
benefit. The only way members know what's happening is if USAU can be
more forthcoming.
Sue
iaua.com
McCargo
OT.
Yes I have heard that cliche MG. What about "you catch more
flies with Honey?"
Either can apply in any situation. Without knowing what the
decision makers at USAU think we can only talk in
generalities.
Don't act like you know that they will go for these attacks
and I will not assume they won't on my side either. Agreed?
But in general if you have a product or service you are
trying to sell in a marketplace that is full of options
(developers and/or pre-built tools in this case) why bad
mouth a potential client before you have even talked to
them.
Common since would tell you that you should not adopt this
sales technique: Call a lead, told to call back in month
(not no but call back) and instead of calling back bad mouth
them.
"There are 2 ways to catch flies with Honey" Maybe?
ulticritic
> As a board member of another organization that utilizes TopScore I'm
> also interested in what USAU has to say.
i'll tell ya what they got to say......NUTHIN.....just like always.
isnt it more than evident that they suck at saying shit.......they
just do what the fuck they want and the apathetic membership lets em
get away with it.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> TopScore's service and communication has been sterling. They've
> provided a great product with tons of support. Yes the title of this
> post was inflammatory but I think it's an attitude born of frustration
> more than anything else.
word.....therefor valid and justified. and if its inflamitory
shouldnt it INFLAME usau to respond........yet still nuthin
---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Granted it's a busy time of year for USAU but is the person who'd be
> dealing with developing future content for USAU's site realistically
> the same person who would be up to their eyeballs in work because of
> Nationals?
GREAT POINT!!!!
------------------------------------
I know it's a relatively small organization but if you
> discount the month before and after both college and club nationals
> then you've lost the ability to communicate with USAU for 4 months out
> of the year. That stinks.
PFFT, TRY 12 months out of the year. this is how they do shit
though. just look at how they delt with rule changes that the
majority of nationals participants wanted.......they made all changes
have to take place 6 months prior to the event......which is just
after club nationals........how convienent for usau who DOSENT FAVOR
MODERN RULE CHANGES.
------------------------------------------------------
>
> One of the points that was brought up by TopScore when this issue was
> presented to those of us that utilize their service was that USAU was
> not interested in allowing TopScore to advertise their product through
> USAU in addition to the 'talk to us in a month' part of the
> discussion. If that's true, then the delay of communication on USAU's
> part seems more sinister.
GREAT WORD........sinister. they ARE some sinister
bastards.......good to know that people are starting to see through
their bull shit
------------------------------------------------
Why turn down advertising dollars unless
> TopScore would be seen as a competitor for a future product?
cause they are power hunger sinister bastards????
----------------------------------------------------
>
> I suppose I'm skeptical.
i'd say realistic
-----------------------------------
At the DC organizers' conference, there was
> a session on liability and risk that seemed like a hard sell of USAU's
> insurance policies rather than a general information session. I'd
> like USAU as an organization to be a resource rather than try to
> monopolize the business of its members and affiliates for its own
> benefit.
dream on.......that would be like getting them to activly survey there
members in an effecient and effective manner........in which more than
3% of the membership participated........like doing it when people re-
up their memberships
---------------------------------------------------------------
The only way members know what's happening is if USAU can be
> more forthcoming.
OR, the way they can keep the membership from knowing whats happening
is by being less forthcoming........so do ya see how them NOT
communicating to the membership enables them to carry out their own
personal agendas?????
ulticritic
> Was going to wait till the AM to respond but the game is in
> OT.
>
> Yes I have heard that cliche MG. What about "you catch more
> flies with Honey?"
why would anyone want to catch a fly.........i just swat em with a fly
swatter and smush em........and usually with my usau mag......as its
not really useful for anything else
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Either can apply in any situation. Without knowing what the
> decision makers at USAU think we can only talk in
> generalities.
and unless they COMMUNICATE we can never know what they
think.........so are people starting to figure out why they dont
communicate to us worth a shit?
--------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Don't act like you know that they will go for these attacks
> and I will not assume they won't on my side either. Agreed?
uhmmmmmmmmmm NO! we know they suck........theyve never don anything
to prove anything different, right? i mean, if they have please share
----------------------------------------------------
>
> But in general if you have a product or service you are
> trying to sell in a marketplace that is full of options
> (developers and/or pre-built tools in this case) why bad
> mouth a potential client before you have even talked to
> them.
why not?
--------------------------------------
>
> Common since would tell you that you should not adopt this
> sales technique:
since when has the usau admin EVER subscribed to common sense. dosent
common sense also tell you that competitive sports require impartial
officials to arbitrate them?
----------------------------------------------------------
Call a lead, told to call back in month
> (not no but call back) and instead of calling back bad mouth
> them.
bad mouthing, giving constuctive critisism.......same difference
--------------------------------------------------------
>
> "There are 2 ways to catch flies with Honey" Maybe?
again, who catrches flies......i mean, what do you do with them once
you catch them. every technique, product and or tool that ive ever
seen related to flies is meant to destroy/KILL them........and it
really dosent get much better than a good ole fashion fly swatter
>
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
Greg Southfield
about a business not having time to take your call. Just
because you may have also paid $40 for dues doesnt entitle
you to a special inside track.
I only knew about topscore through other RSD posts and had a
favorable impression until now.
RoShamShot
out.
3000+ in the Madison summer league! That seems out of
control, how many different divisions are there?
Greg Southfield
constituents and that you have 6 leagues with 6,000 players.
Are you really trying to suggest you're speaking on behalf
of 6,000 players? You're a software company for data entry
and management. These players didn't come to you, they came
to their leagues. You just happened to he the tool on the
website.
I'm boggled at your huge ego.
mvuong
many people?
Reggie Fanelli
> While I will be the first to agree USAU's track record on
> communication isn't great, I think "we're too busy" is a
> perfectly reasonable response to questions about league
> support when they are dealing with D3 nationals where they
> lost all their fields and were -><- this close to cancelling
> the whole thing, dealing with series rosters, implementing
> the brand new college post season structure and D1
> nationals. there are only so many hours in the day.
>
> a few weeks after D1 nationals is over, ask about anything
> you want and expect an answer and complain if you don't get
> one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---oooh...it's always something.
Reggie Fanelli
> public forum?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----this is a disc sport discussion group, right?
what better place to 'air' disc sport based 'grievances', no?
Reggie Fanelli
> but regardless. You are a business that is trying to get
> their foot in the door. Right or wrong attacking a potential
> client is not the way to go about it.
--tons of clients out there, huh?
Reggie Fanelli
> Topscore - you just lost a ton of credibility by venting
> about a business not having time to take your call. Just
> because you may have also paid $40 for dues doesnt entitle
> you to a special inside track.
>
> I only knew about topscore through other RSD posts and had a
> favorable impression until now.
--fuck off phoney!
you've got no credibility about ANYTHING....
you're a liar who writes things and pretends that they are true, only
because you typed them.
shut the fuck up.
ulticritic
> Topscore - you just lost a ton of credibility by venting
> about a business not having time to take your call.
to who, chumps like you?
------------------------------------
Just
> because you may have also paid $40 for dues doesnt entitle
> you to a special inside track.
what does it entitle one to do?
---------------------------------------------
>
> I only knew about topscore through other RSD posts and had a
> favorable impression until now.
well you sure seem to be the minority here
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
> Topscore - you said you're reaching out on behalf of your
> constituents and that you have 6 leagues with 6,000 players.
> Are you really trying to suggest you're speaking on behalf
> of 6,000 players?
isnt that more people than usau gets to vote?
--------------------------------------
You're a software company for data entry
> and management. These players didn't come to you, they came
> to their leagues.
hows this any different from how or why people join usau?
----------------------------------------------------------
You just happened to he the tool on the
> website.
again, hows this any different from usau?
--------------------------------------------
>
> I'm boggled at your huge ego.
so now you should understand how WE are boggled with usaus' ego(s)
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
Reggie Fanelli
> Madison Ultimate Frisbee Association
> --
--you can....but that'd just make an ass of you....and someone else.
why block someone as entertaining to read and with such an awesome
perspective as Toad?
you're as big a dipshit as you seem to be, i bet.
Reggie Fanelli
> > in Madison was....
---i've run a SHITLOAD of awesome tournaments.....and never have i
once considered it a lot of "work"
if you love something...it ain't work.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> but wasnt it you folks in madison doing all of it? dont they have
> locals that ARENT usau administrators that can pull off that event. i
> ran tournies for over a decade (one of em was college
> nationals......and this was when we WERENT ALLOWED TO CHARGE ENTRY
> FEES.....89' jack) and it got to the point for me where i could run
> them im my sleep......SINGLE HANDEDLY even
---oh...this guy must love it.
Reggie Fanelli
> sales technique: Call a lead, told to call back in month
> (not no but call back) and instead of calling back bad mouth
> them.
---common....since when?
common sense?
Reggie Fanelli
> > part seems more sinister.
>
> GREAT WORD........sinister. they ARE some sinister
> bastards.......good to know that people are starting to see through
> their bull shit
---seems like folks are starting to agree with you Toad!
folks are seeing the upsa in the same light as you.
won't it be weird when folks who have you 'blocked'....have to unblock
you in order to keep up with a leader?
boy....they are gonna hate that!
Reggie Fanelli
> and unless they COMMUNICATE we can never know what they
> think.........so are people starting to figure out why they dont
> communicate to us worth a shit?
--it doesn't MATTER what they think.
they believe they have a monopoly....so it doesn't matter what people
KNOW about what they THINK.
right?
Reggie Fanelli
> Topscore - you just lost a ton of credibility
---you lost credibility with a dickshit who has no
credibility......wow!
Lance Marput
Which pr train wreck will come to a complete hault first?
uoa Mike Gerics or Lance Armstrong?
Peter Mc
Knappy
there was a session on liability and risk that seemed like a
hard sell of USAU's
insurance policies rather than a general information
session. I'd
like USAU as an organization to be a resource rather than
try to
monopolize the business of its members and affiliates for
its own
USAU can be more forthcoming."
Exactly. Well said, Sue.
I understand Jeremy's frustration. Starting this post was
probably a bad idea, but I've been tempted to start similar
posts in the past. (I called USAU in January about
partnering on an event, got directed to a voice mail because
the board meeting was upcoming, left a message for Will
Deaver.....never got a call back. This is the second time
over the years I have left messages for them that they
didn't return, so I think they just don't care about
responding to member requests.)
Jeremy is a good kid, and Topscore is a solid product. USAU
sucks at communicating & can't spell the word transparency.
That's the facts.
Bulb
> Topscore - you just lost a ton of credibility by venting
> about a business not having time to take your call. Just
> because you may have also paid $40 for dues doesnt entitle
> you to a special inside track.
>
> I only knew about topscore through other RSD posts and
> had a favorable impression until now.
gregs wrote on Wed, 25 May 2011 01:55
> Topscore - you said you're reaching out on behalf of
> your constituents and that you have 6 leagues with 6,000
> players. Are you really trying to suggest you're speaking
> on behalf of 6,000 players? You're a software company for
> data entry and management. These players didn't come to
> you, they came to their leagues. You just happened to he
> the tool on the website.
>
> I'm boggled at your huge ego.
Easy, gregs. I happen to know both of the guys running
Topscore pretty well - I serve on the PADA BoD with one, and
play on a club team with the other - and they definitely
don't have an ego. They are very hard-working and have
delivered a fantastic product to PADA thus far, going above
and beyond the requirements laid out in our contract with
them. Sure, the title of this post could probably have been
worded better, but Jeremy has already admitted as much, so
there's no need to keep harping on it.
Everybody just calm down, and remember, IT'S ONLY RSD.
Twoorii wrote on Wed, 25 May 2011 01:55
> 3000+ in the Madison summer league! That seems out of
> control, how many different divisions are there?
That is an insane number. PADA's biggest league has 48
teams of 18-19 players each, but that only comes to ~900
players. 3000 players in one league? That must be > 150
teams!
Jim Aspholm
> Let's get to the main bit of info that people are
> missing out.
>
> 3000+ in the Madison summer league! That seems out of
> control, how many different divisions are there?
mvuong wrote on Tue, 24 May 2011 23:29
> That is a ridiculous number. How do you find fields for
> that many people?
It is a little crazy. I'm playing my third year of MUFA
Competitive, and I can't wait for the season to start!
There are 5 divisions: Competitive, Rec A, B, C, D.
Competitive and Rec A each have one subdivision, so they
play on opposite days (MW & TR). Each of the other
divisions have a subdivision on both MW and TR. This makes
the mid-season realignment up/down a division easy.
All of the games (to my knowledge) are played in Madison
public parks. There is an awesome and well funded (or at
least it used to be) park system in Madison. The MUFA staff
have done a great job dealing with a tremendous increase in
MUFA players over the last 5 years, while keeping the price
not just reasonable, but laughably low.
The greater Madison area has about 300,000 residents during
summer. 3,000 of them play summer league Ultimate. Good
work MUFA!
Lance Marput
Props to those coordinators.
Peter Mc
Columbia, MO
ulticritic
i think that if people knew what there REAL agenda was, which includes
keeping it secret, they would be more critical about how they went
about their business. part of their busines being to solidify their
percieved monopoly......of which, their exesive promotion and
propegation of the outdated concept of sotg (at the expense of
evolution and modernization) is a big part of that monopoly.
Jeremy Kauffman
answer these questions.
We received notice that a USAU staff member responsible for technology
has read this thread and contacted some of our partners. If there's
time for that, why not just answer the questions here?
I also wanted to clarify a couple things:
1) We're not trying to sell anything to the USAU. We're not even
looking for a special relationship with them. We want to make sure
that their new web services are designed to be open, flexible and
inter-operable, rather than closed and one-size-fits-all. Significant
evidence points towards it being the latter.
2) We're not purporting to be the direct representatives of the
thousands of players that use TopScore. However, the people who are
those players' representatives -- their board members and tech
committees -- have asked us to pursue this.
3) USAU's revenues top one million dollars and USAU has over a dozen
full time employees. If their claim is that with all that staff they
do not have ten minutes to spare in the month prior to major events,
how will they be able to support their planned services year-round?
The fact is that the USAU's continued evasion, coupled with their
denial of our request to advertise and their track record with
technology, should have everyone suspicious.
On May 24, 9:03 pm, Random Guy <hartsel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Your usual BS...not worth of a response beyond this.
>
> you just gotta click the top bar of ulticritic's post and minimize
> them all... sooooo nice.
>
> but USAU is looking to sanction/legitimize local, area leagues? like
> summer leagues, player-run organizations, city-run leagues??
>
> that is interesting... and I would like to eventually read the answers
> to the original questions. but no rush, learned to also not let USAU
> get to me
Doc
^amen^
Hey Gregs,
Is is possible for someone to have a complaint with USAU and
do it in a way that meets your approval?
Why are you such a shill?
and lastly,
Why is Dirk so amazing?
James Highsmith
teams...seriously, it's been like two weeks.
Andrew Buermeyer
for USAU are the high school tournaments... a quick check of
score reporter list over 40 state championships including
Easterns and Westerns in the period including end of April
through first week of June. That's a shit load and a much
busier ~month than leading up to the club championships in
fall.
I have no particular horse in this race (adding in new
metaphors), but am turned off by businesses airing
conspiracy theory speculation in a public forum. It makes
your business look bad. Specifically, "The fact is that the
USAU's continued evasion, coupled with their denial of our
request to advertise and their track record with technology,
should have everyone suspicious." seems silly and reflects
negatively on your business, not USAU.
As an alternative, you could simply have come on the forum
to alert folks of potential changes at USAU and and
encouraged them as members to work with the organization to
ensure the changes meet member needs. Asking that USAU reps
come on this forum to address your accusations of conspiracy
(when did you stop beating your wife?) is not likely to be
productive.
Euh
>
> uoa Mike Gerics or Lance Armstrong?
ouch, touché
Baer
on this board, a lot of responses come back to attack the
poster or to provide some excuse for the USAU. Critics are
accused of not knowing what really goes on at HQ or how busy
they must be, but those who respond also don't really know
what is going on - you're just speculating like the rest of
us.
When USAU changed names and unveiled a new website, they
weren't too busy to make a series of lame teaser videos and
issue several announcements. It looks to many of us that
USAU is more than willing to pat themselves on the back for
modest achievements but cannot be bothered to publically
respond to legitimate questions or critiques.
Not saying they should respond to every little thing that
happens, but do they really have a dozen people working 40+
hours each week getting ready for Nationals? Just take a few
minutes to answer Jeremy's questions!
mgd.mitch
*exactly* how incredibly hectic things have been lately.
Pete
3,090 players spread amongst 164 teams. The top two levels,
Competitive and RecA play on Monday/Wednesday and
Tuesday/Thursday respectively, while RecB, RecC and RecD
occur on both pairs of nights. RecC is further divided into
Gold and Silver divisions. All in all it ends up being 8 ~20
team divisions.
Jim is also right that Madison has a well-maintained and
incredibly inexpensive parks system, with over 7,000 acres
of parkland within the Madison city limits. (Although that
counts beachers, golf courses, and other park facilities.
About 2,100 acres are parks that have sport field areas in
them) New neighborhoods that are emerging on the outskirts
of the city all have new parks built within the
subdivisions, and MUFA has built an excellent relationship
with the city parks department that has allowed us to get
early access to those parks. In summer we use ten parks that
we have a total of 30 fields at per evening.
It's a pretty spectacular feeling having ultimate becoming
the major recreational sport in the area. The inexpensive
nature of the parks and a healthy sponsorship from a local
brewpub allow us to keep the league costs very low, making
the league incredibly accessible.
ulticritic
sounds like usau headquarters should be in madison......and be run by
THOSE folks
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
Mozaic
> First, I want to thank everyone who's stood up and asked
> the USAU to
> answer these questions.
>
> We received notice that a USAU staff member responsible
> for technology
> has read this thread and contacted some of our partners.
> If there's
> time for that, why not just answer the questions here?
So USAU have been in contact with you / your partners, but
still unhappy cause they haven't used RSD to respond on a
conspiracy theory thread YOU created.
How bout coming out and saying, Thanks USAU for responding
despite their limited resources in this incredibly busy
time.
And do you really expect that your questions will only take
10 minutes? They are IT related and request information on
how they will interact with third party software, which
presumably, the IT people would have to know how that third
party product works before they could say yes/no to whether
its possible.
The only party that was confrontational (despite your
original claim) was you with this post.
Jeremy Kauffman
answer any of the questions posed in the contact they had with our
partners. Other sources at USAU have confirmed to me that they are
pursuing league registration services including a league level USA
Ultimate membership, but gave me absolutely no detail regarding the
implementation.
And yes, I do think the questions posed would take less than 10
minutes to answer. About half of them are yes/no, the others would
take only a few sentences. We're not looking for incredible detail.
Reggie Fanelli
>
> Which pr train wreck will come to a complete hault first?
>
> uoa Mike Gerics or Lance Armstrong?
---man....that IS deep.
however....what's a hault?
and.....being compared to Lance Armstrong, an inspiration and
champion....is cool by me!
and.....don't you have a thread that you started that no one is
reading that you need to bump to the top of the list again so that no
one can continue to read it?
mvuong
> The phrasing of that statement was ambiguous. To
> clarify, they did not
> answer any of the questions posed in the contact they
> had with our
> partners. Other sources at USAU have confirmed to me
> that they are
> pursuing league registration services including a league
> level USA
> Ultimate membership, but gave me absolutely no detail
> regarding the
> implementation.
>
> And yes, I do think the questions posed would take less
> than 10
> minutes to answer. About half of them are yes/no, the
> others would
> take only a few sentences. We're not looking for
> incredible detail.
Quote:
> * For the USAU's new league registration system, will
> all players
> required to be USAU members and pay USAU dues?
> * Will Score Reporter be upgraded to include an
> interface so that
> other sites (e.g. leaguevine.com) can integrate with
> them? If not,why?
> * Will the new league system be used for score reporting
> and rostering as well, or just registration?
> * Will the USAU's new registration system support
> 3rd-party
> integration (via an API)?
> * If no: why? Will players be forced to go to
> usaultimate.org to
> register?
> * If yes: can you elaborate on what aspects of USAU's
> system it can interact with and how it would work?
> * Why has the USAU taken a confrontational approach with
> us and our services? All we're interested in is delivering
> better tools and services to players and organizers.
> * Why does the USAU clandestinely develop technology
> changes without feedback or testing from it's members?
> * What is the timeline for all of these changes?
All of your bolded questions require longer than yes/no
questions to answer. On top of that, the questions in
italics are accusatory to start with. You seriously expect a
technical and accurate answer to take less than 10 minutes
to formulate from someone who does not necessarily
understand all of these things? Maybe they are just like the
leagues you provide a service for, contracting out work like
this. They would need to get more info together for you in
order to accurately answer your question.
Please note how many questions require extrapolation. Is
that your definition of half being yes/no questions?
Instead you come on here accusing them of not answering
yes/no to a bunch of questions that are not yes/no,
complaining about not answering questions that are directly
inflammatory, and doing it at the busiest time of year for a
shorthanded staff. Way to go about this in the exact wrong
way, then decide to go to a public forum and deface the very
people you are trying to "work with".
Reggie Fanelli
> teams...seriously, it's been like two weeks.
--hey, they're real busy with the college championships....one of two
events each year they care about....but only one of 12 excuses to say
they are busy
Reggie Fanelli
>
> > uoa Mike Gerics or Lance Armstrong?
>
> ouch, touché
---touche means that he hurt you.
did he hurt you?
because i don't feel too touche'd.
i feel honored to be in that company...inspiring and winning
Jeremy Kauffman
Thanks for your feedback. I don't want to get into a debate over the
time requirements to answer the questions. For what it's worth, we
would be satisfied if they answered the questions that literally are
yes/no or either/or.
And again, to clarify, when I say "work with", what I mean is an API
and/or other support for 3rd-party integration. We're not looking for
any kind of special relationship. One would think that this is a
decision that has already been made, and, even if it hasn't, wouldn't
be decided on the basis of a call-out on RSD :)
Really, what set this whole thing off was Andy telling us we couldn't
advertise in USA Ultimate publications, which set off alarm bells. We
were aware that USA Ultimate was planning new league registration
tools, but just basically assumed that they would include support for
3rd-parties (because if our services can't interact with them, how
will any league's website?). All we'd really like is confirmation or
denial that such support will exist. Based on everything that's
happened so far, USA Ultimate's silence makes me far more likely to
believe it's the latter.
ulticritic
> Marvin,
>
> Thanks for your feedback. I don't want to get into a debate over the
> time requirements to answer the questions. For what it's worth, we
> would be satisfied if they answered the questions that literally are
> yes/no or either/or.
and lets use the parent/child dynamic that pizzadickhead brought
up........if a kid askes his parent a question, even though they might
be in the middle of doing some work (lets say they work out of their
home and there kid comes into thier home office to ask a legit
question) is it prudent for the parent to simply IGNORE THIER
CHILD.......especially if that CHILD provides that family with the
meat of the revenue they exist on. and even if they dont, how hard
would it be for that parent to take a minute or two out of his/her
present task to respond to the child. i mean, isnt taking
opportunities like this to connect with our kids what good parenting
is all about. so, even though pizzanazi would have likely scolded his
kid for inquiring on a particular subject during his work shouldnt
usau take these opportunities to connect with the membership to show
us that they do indeed care about our well being? and do it in an
urgant and timely manner.
ps. i still havent gotten a response from usau as to how much the
airing of the college finals is costing the membership. just imagine
if miley cirus was to ask her dad how much one of her promotion costs
and he didnt/wouldnt tell her?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> And again, to clarify, when I say "work with", what I mean is an API
> and/or other support for 3rd-party integration. We're not looking for
> any kind of special relationship.
ouch.......BURN
-------------------------------------
One would think that this is a
> decision that has already been made, and, even if it hasn't, wouldn't
> be decided on the basis of a call-out on RSD :)
of which, whats the big problem with using rsd as a median to reach
out to and inform the ultimate community of shit......and i mean, isnt
it pretty clear that rsd is to TV as the usau web page is to using
native american smoke signals.......on a basic communicative level?
--------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Really, what set this whole thing off was Andy telling us we couldn't
> advertise in USA Ultimate publications, which set off alarm bells. We
> were aware that USA Ultimate was planning new league registration
> tools, but just basically assumed that they would include support for
> 3rd-parties (because if our services can't interact with them, how
> will any league's website?). All we'd really like is confirmation or
> denial that such support will exist. Based on everything that's
> happened so far, USA Ultimate's silence makes me far more likely to
> believe it's the latter.
hers the thing, personally, i dont really even know what the fuck you
guys are talking about.......nor do i really care. i just enjoy
piling on usau when they get publically critisized......and for good
reason.......THEY SUCK AT MOST EVERYTHING THEY DO!!!! where on the
other hand there are people that are the exact opposite of me that
will blindly defend ANY CRITISISM of usau because they are pussy sz
loyalists.......not saying that those loyalist arent more informed
than me about this one issue.......just saying that it seems they are
ALWAYS GIVING USAU A PASS, no matter what. so anytime someone
critisizes usau, valid or not, these dweebs will be at there defense
grasping at any kind of excuse or rationalization they can find to
discredit not only the critisism but also the critisizer.
Reggie Fanelli
> Hey Gregs,
>
> Is is possible for someone to have a complaint with USAU and
> do it in a way that meets your approval?
>
> Why are you such a shill?
-----looked up shill.
thanks!
he's a shill because he's right there in the office.....or working
directly for them by being the upsa's top dicklicker on rsd.
Reggie Fanelli
> on this board, a lot of responses come back to attack the
> poster or to provide some excuse for the USAU.
---excuses are the nails that build the house of failure.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Critics are
> accused of not knowing what really goes on at HQ or how busy
> they must be, but those who respond also don't really know
> what is going on - you're just speculating like the rest of
> us.
---it's not sooo hard to tell what's going on there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> When USAU changed names and unveiled a new website, they
> weren't too busy to make a series of lame teaser videos and
> issue several announcements. It looks to many of us that
> USAU is more than willing to pat themselves on the back for
> modest achievements but cannot be bothered to publically
> respond to legitimate questions or critiques.
---those videos took time?
damn.....those folks are in trouble!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Not saying they should respond to every little thing that
> happens, but do they really have a dozen people working 40+
> hours each week getting ready for Nationals? Just take a few
> minutes to answer Jeremy's questions!
---a dozen working 40 hours?
now THAT's efficient!
Reggie Fanelli
> While I will be the first to agree USAU's track record on
> communication isn't great, I think "we're too busy" is a
> perfectly reasonable response to questions about league
> support
~~~~~~~~~~~
--don't they use that same 'excuse' all the time?
Euh
You mean in complete denial.
Reggie Fanelli
> You mean in complete denial.
--in complete denial that you don't know how to use the word
'touche'........no.....i fully admit that you don't know.
as for Lance....i love the guy for being such an awesome champ and
survivor and inspiration.....
i guess if he ever fails one of the hundreds of drug tests that he's
taken....oops...too late...he never failed one.
Euh
*buzzer sound*
He did. Didnt watch 60 minutes ?
Reggie Fanelli
> *buzzer sound*
>
> He did. Didnt watch 60 minutes ?
---you mean....bzzzzt?
on 60 minutes, didn't an admitted drug user 'accuse' him of failing a
test....and accused the french of covering it up?
an admitted epo'er, blood doper, cheater.....accused him and the
french of covering it up.
we haven't seen a failed test.
have we?
buzzer sound.....i mean...bzzzzt.
Euh
> test....and accused the french of covering it up?
> an admitted epo'er, blood doper, cheater.....accused him and the
> french of covering it up.
>
> we haven't seen a failed test.
> have we?
>
> buzzer sound.....i mean...bzzzzt.
On the one hand you have an influential athlete claiming he has never
used drugs, although he made
significant money contributions to the organisation in charge of the
testing soon after the alleged positive tests
On the other hand you have three of his former teammates (Hincapi,
Hamilton, Landis) accusing him of hiding the truth.
ooooooo tough decision for the jury.
Kinda remind me of someone denying the facts until a certain video
came out...
Reggie Fanelli
> Hamilton, Landis) accusing him of hiding the truth.
>
> ooooooo tough decision for the jury.
--george hincapi wondered, the following day, where the quotes
attributed to him came from.....
have you only watched half the story or something?
if you only know half.....why are you writing about this?
Reggie Fanelli
> Hamilton, Landis) accusing him of hiding the truth.
---LANDIS?!?!?!?!?!?!
holy shit...are you kidding?
euh......he's got as much credibility as greg southernfried.
didn't he fail a drug test and have to give up the tour de france
title?
that's a trustworthy fella for you to be hanging your opinion on.....
Euh
> > On the other hand you have three of his former teammates (Hincapi,
> > Hamilton, Landis) accusing him of hiding the truth.
>
> > ooooooo tough decision for the jury.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> --george hincapi wondered, the following day, where the quotes
> attributed to him came from.....
He only said that he never talked to anyone from 60 min. He didnt deny
the claims.
Euh
So in the same line of thinking, a banned player later acting as a ref/
observer would have zero credbility ?
I think you just changed my opinion. Landis is a cheat (Lance is still
toasted anyway).
Reggie Fanelli
> > holy shit...are you kidding?
> > euh......he's got as much credibility as greg southernfried.
> > didn't he fail a drug test and have to give up the tour de france
> > title?
> > that's a trustworthy fella for you to be hanging your opinion on.....
>
> So in the same line of thinking, a banned player later acting as a ref/
> observer would have zero credbility ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---no.
by that same line of thinking(your line of thinking)....Landis would
currently be working as the blood sample taker and tester for the Int.
Cycling Federation(or whatever)
or....Landis would be the guy waving the flag to start the race.
or Landis would be the guy deciding who crossed the finish line first.
if you're talking about a banned player later acting as an
observer......he would have the uptmost credibility if he AFTER being
banned, was respected and trusted enough to officiate 3 college
championship games.
if you're talking about a banned player who later went on to teach the
upsa exactly how they should best officiate games and the proper
mechanics to do so during the course of a game....i'd say that the
banned player must have some credibility.
if you're talking about a banned player who went on to have his two
observer system officially recognized by the former lone governing
body of ultimate in the US....then i'd say he has some credibility.
now...do you call yourself euh, because that's the sound people make
when they smell you?
hey.....you're a dumbass.
Euh
> > > ---LANDIS?!?!?!?!?!?!
> > > holy shit...are you kidding?
> > > euh......he's got as much credibility as greg southernfried.
> > > didn't he fail a drug test and have to give up the tour de france
> > > title?
> > > that's a trustworthy fella for you to be hanging your opinion on.....
>
> > So in the same line of thinking, a banned player later acting as a ref/
> > observer would have zero credbility ?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ---no.
Touché (with the accent)
Drew
annoyed/pissed that they couldn't advertise in USUA
publications?
Granted, that seems like a stupid decision on part of the
USUA, even if they do have plans for some sort of national,
integrated league registration system blah blah blah.
Still, Jeremy this thread makes you and your company sound
like whiny children. You have a grievance in not getting
answers from USUA but you couch the thread as if they are
hiding something from the general player population, as if
there is some grand conspiracy that is depriving all of us
from some great resource when what they have really done is
not answer your questions in a timely enough fashion for you
and your BUSINESS INTERESTS. You're a vendor and
self-interested. Stop couching this as some public benefit
you're fighting for. This isn't good business, it's not good
advertising, it's just plain embarrassing. TopScore may have
a great product and provide an amazing service but this is
not the way to get things done. If you did this with any
other organization or business you would never do any work
with them ever. Seriously, are you taking your case to RSD
to try to shame them into responding or doing what you want?
Or maybe you're just appealing to Toad so that he'll help
you. "Bizarre" is definitely the word.
Euh
> to try to shame them into responding or doing what you want?
More intriguing: do people really think that RSD (still) has an
influential role in the community ?
No disrespect, but it's mainly populated by reminiscent old-timers and
newsgroups in general are even far more obscured to the public than
the sport itself.
Reggie Fanelli
> like whiny children.
---TOTALLY disagree.
the tread makes the company seem like they are talking shit.
nothing wrong with that.
Chad
Canada) is still the biggest in the world? It's a title
worth fighting for.
Re League API.
Jeremy, this is something very near and dear to my heart. I
set out to create a specification for formatting ultimate
data (based on an established standard) and on tools for
sharing data in that format. USAU even gave me a grant to do
so, so I feel like they are on board with the idea.
http://www.usaultimate.org/resources/grants/recipients_2011.aspx
I've been working on it. For those of you that won't click
on the link, it was only $120. It was meant to pay for
server space, not for my time. I've been spending a lot of
time on it but I'm not a formally trained programmer so I
learn as I go... slowly. I'm also a bit busy trying to write
my PhD thesis.
The specification is mostly done. That was the easy part.
What I'm trying to do now is make a very flexible API. One
that will be easy to modify to work with anybody's
(TopScore, Leaguevine, Leaguerunner, UltiOrganizer, ffindr,
whatever Madison uses, whatever BUDA uses, etc) database. My
goal is to have a standardized data format and a
standardized API.
I'll send out an e-mail to some db admins now and hopefully
start the conversation. I was hoping to have an example done
before I did so, but it appears it can't wait.
ulticritic
> So basically this whole thread is just TopScore being
> annoyed/pissed that they couldn't advertise in USUA
> publications?
>
> Granted, that seems like a stupid decision on part of the
> USUA, even if they do have plans for some sort of national,
> integrated league registration system blah blah blah.
this is where you should have stopped this post
-------------------------------------
>
> Still, Jeremy this thread makes you and your company sound
> like whiny children.
is that what 60 minutes sounded like when they exposed lance
armstrong?
--------------------------------------------------
You have a grievance in not getting
> answers from USUA but you couch the thread as if they are
> hiding something from the general player population,
they are hiding more than just that. i tried to get a figure on how
much the membership was spending on the college nationals presentation
and they hid that too. they also hide how the board members vote on
all issues at board meetings
---------------------------------------------
as if
> there is some grand conspiracy that is depriving all of us
> from some great resource when what they have really done is
> not answer your questions in a timely enough fashion for you
> and your BUSINESS INTERESTS.
there is a conspiracy......for the 12 board members to push their own
individual agendas.......and ignore the wants and needs of the
membership at large......and its done primarily by NOT seeking out
what those wants and needs are
---------------------------------------------------
You're a vendor and
> self-interested. Stop couching this as some public benefit
> you're fighting for.
fuck off prick, they can couch whatever the fuck they want
--------------------------------------------
This isn't good business, it's not good
> advertising, it's just plain embarrassing.
why are you worried about their business?
---------------------------------------
TopScore may have
> a great product and provide an amazing service but this is
> not the way to get things done.
so you can critisize them for not doing things right but they cant
critisize usau for the same thing? hypocrite much?
---------------------------------------------------------
If you did this with any
> other organization or business you would never do any work
> with them ever.
so why would that concern you even slightly?
------------------------------------------------------
Seriously, are you taking your case to RSD
> to try to shame them into responding or doing what you want?
man, we cant get nuthin past you......by the way, taking their case to
rsd worked as they have since been contacted by a usau official YOU
DIPSHIT
---------------------------------
>
> Or maybe you're just appealing to Toad so that he'll help
> you. "Bizarre" is definitely the word.
i doubt they need (or maybe even want) my help......i just cant resist
an opp to shame usau myself.......even when they make it so damn easy
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
so why are you here then.......an what section of the "population" are
you?
Reggie Fanelli
maybe we can work together.
wanna advertize on our site......join Savage as one of our
sponsors????
Euh
I'm a secret agent. If I tell you...