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WHATS NOT TO LOVE ABOUT THE AUDL
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ulticritic
Jun 3, 2012, 3:20:38 PM6/3/12
to
commentation and interviews - so much more susinct and relavent than
anything weve ever seen with any usau or other presentations.
wider field - not only does it make the game more offensive but it
opens up the field more visually thus making it look less clogged up
and stagnent. also it helps visually to be able to use the premarked
football fields as the sidelines. sometimes i wish they would just
shift to a 100 yard field so that that "field length" visual aspect
was consistant as well (or if they could paint in the first 10 yards
of each side of the field......but thats not practical or likely).
improved game pace - i know the presentation i saw was edited but i
imagine the improved pace is also realized live. i know there is
about half the time between points as usau comp and the fact there are
NO ult-dabates saves tons of down time.
increased pysicallity - i would have guesed that, if the players were
allowed to call the ticky tac shit they do in usau comp, there would
have been a good 2 dozen extra stoppages (in this cranes/spinners game
i just watched) from calls AND i even noticed a couple flops that went
uncalled (one on a DOUBLE TEAM......kudos to CRAZY FRANK for one of
his ideas making it way to professional ultimate). everyone involved
(players and coaches) noticed the fact the refs were "lettin em play"
and were ok with it as it was consistant BUT the commentator noted how
that aspect really appealed to the fans (1. because fans like the
physical aspect and 2. the game pace dosent get killed from
stopages). so chuck kerr can eat shit with his "added 2 minutes"
worth of down time with self officiation. those 2 dozen calls would
have resulted in 12 additional minutes alone without the other dozen
or so calls that DID GET CALLED (but were resolved IMMEDIATLY with the
refs). then add in the 20 minutes of extra time in between pull and
point.........thers a good 50% more worth of action we get with the
audl product
camera angles - love the high up angle with the spuratic sideline
angle mixed in from time to time. would like to see more instant
replays though
uniforms - nice clean and crisp look. like the tucked in shirts (that
should be a league policy), LOVE the no mismatching hats (but would
like to see a no backwards policy), love that the refs shorts are
black (with the traditional "stripes", obviously) so they are very
distinct from the white shorts the players wear. also like the BIG
numbers on the back of the jerzies.
as for critisisms - i think the grafic that shows the time and score
is a little hard to read and i'd like to see more instant
replays.......other than that this is a grad A product.
one thing that i do wonder about though is the location of the "audl
bowl" or the champoinship game or whatever your gonna call it. i
would think youde want to host that in a city with more fans and
possibly award the team that wins the regular season with that hosting
honor (isnt it sceduled to be in michigan this season)......or maybe
even do it in a city that has a strong ultimate hub where other
ultimate fan can easily commute to that dosent have an audl team or is
getting one in the near future to kinda spread the word and increase
the exposure. also, you might want to think up a special name for
this game (ie "super bowl", "stanley cup" etc). my suggestion would
be the audl "ultimate cup".
either way, you guys (players, refs, coaches, owners, announcers) are
the shit. congrats on the professional product you are putting out
and good luck in the future
toad "ulticritic" leber
anything weve ever seen with any usau or other presentations.
wider field - not only does it make the game more offensive but it
opens up the field more visually thus making it look less clogged up
and stagnent. also it helps visually to be able to use the premarked
football fields as the sidelines. sometimes i wish they would just
shift to a 100 yard field so that that "field length" visual aspect
was consistant as well (or if they could paint in the first 10 yards
of each side of the field......but thats not practical or likely).
improved game pace - i know the presentation i saw was edited but i
imagine the improved pace is also realized live. i know there is
about half the time between points as usau comp and the fact there are
NO ult-dabates saves tons of down time.
increased pysicallity - i would have guesed that, if the players were
allowed to call the ticky tac shit they do in usau comp, there would
have been a good 2 dozen extra stoppages (in this cranes/spinners game
i just watched) from calls AND i even noticed a couple flops that went
uncalled (one on a DOUBLE TEAM......kudos to CRAZY FRANK for one of
his ideas making it way to professional ultimate). everyone involved
(players and coaches) noticed the fact the refs were "lettin em play"
and were ok with it as it was consistant BUT the commentator noted how
that aspect really appealed to the fans (1. because fans like the
physical aspect and 2. the game pace dosent get killed from
stopages). so chuck kerr can eat shit with his "added 2 minutes"
worth of down time with self officiation. those 2 dozen calls would
have resulted in 12 additional minutes alone without the other dozen
or so calls that DID GET CALLED (but were resolved IMMEDIATLY with the
refs). then add in the 20 minutes of extra time in between pull and
point.........thers a good 50% more worth of action we get with the
audl product
camera angles - love the high up angle with the spuratic sideline
angle mixed in from time to time. would like to see more instant
replays though
uniforms - nice clean and crisp look. like the tucked in shirts (that
should be a league policy), LOVE the no mismatching hats (but would
like to see a no backwards policy), love that the refs shorts are
black (with the traditional "stripes", obviously) so they are very
distinct from the white shorts the players wear. also like the BIG
numbers on the back of the jerzies.
as for critisisms - i think the grafic that shows the time and score
is a little hard to read and i'd like to see more instant
replays.......other than that this is a grad A product.
one thing that i do wonder about though is the location of the "audl
bowl" or the champoinship game or whatever your gonna call it. i
would think youde want to host that in a city with more fans and
possibly award the team that wins the regular season with that hosting
honor (isnt it sceduled to be in michigan this season)......or maybe
even do it in a city that has a strong ultimate hub where other
ultimate fan can easily commute to that dosent have an audl team or is
getting one in the near future to kinda spread the word and increase
the exposure. also, you might want to think up a special name for
this game (ie "super bowl", "stanley cup" etc). my suggestion would
be the audl "ultimate cup".
either way, you guys (players, refs, coaches, owners, announcers) are
the shit. congrats on the professional product you are putting out
and good luck in the future
toad "ulticritic" leber
Alex Peters
Jun 3, 2012, 4:03:20 PM6/3/12
to
Lot of good points in there, but sorry, the wider field makes the game
worse. It makes the game less exciting when defenders can't cover a
complete cut because it's just too much field space. I just watched
the Spinners/Cranes video, and much like the other AUDL games I've
watched, defenders are often trailing by a lot, or trying to play a
poachy/junk game. In contrast, I watched the Sockeye/Canada game the
other night, and other than some awkward self-officiation moments, it
was a much faster paced (on the field, not between points obviously),
more aggressive, more exciting game. Pretty much every point all the
players were in full sprint, defenders constantly making great bids,
and there were plenty of exciting hucks that ended up in the endzone,
not 5 yards short as seems to happen in the AUDL somewhat often.
Let's face it, the wider field isn't implemented because it's good for
the gameplay, it's just so they can use the football fields already in
place. While using nice stadiums is definitely a positive for the
sport, having to answer the question of "oh what kind of field is
ultimate played on?" with "oh we just use football fields because it's
convenient and throw some cones out because we aren't allowed to paint
the endzones" detracts from legitimacy of the sport.
worse. It makes the game less exciting when defenders can't cover a
complete cut because it's just too much field space. I just watched
the Spinners/Cranes video, and much like the other AUDL games I've
watched, defenders are often trailing by a lot, or trying to play a
poachy/junk game. In contrast, I watched the Sockeye/Canada game the
other night, and other than some awkward self-officiation moments, it
was a much faster paced (on the field, not between points obviously),
more aggressive, more exciting game. Pretty much every point all the
players were in full sprint, defenders constantly making great bids,
and there were plenty of exciting hucks that ended up in the endzone,
not 5 yards short as seems to happen in the AUDL somewhat often.
Let's face it, the wider field isn't implemented because it's good for
the gameplay, it's just so they can use the football fields already in
place. While using nice stadiums is definitely a positive for the
sport, having to answer the question of "oh what kind of field is
ultimate played on?" with "oh we just use football fields because it's
convenient and throw some cones out because we aren't allowed to paint
the endzones" detracts from legitimacy of the sport.
ulticritic
Jun 3, 2012, 4:21:10 PM6/3/12
to
On Jun 3, 4:03 pm, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lot of good points in there, but sorry, the wider field makes the game
> worse.
BZZZZT, WRONG!!!!
> Lot of good points in there, but sorry, the wider field makes the game
> worse.
------------------------------------
It makes the game less exciting when defenders can't cover a
> complete cut because it's just too much field space.
turnovers.
and how is more scoring less exciting. you must be a soccer fan
-----------------------------------------
I just watched
> the Spinners/Cranes video, and much like the other AUDL games I've
> watched, defenders are often trailing by a lot, or trying to play a
> poachy/junk game.
-----------------------------------------
In contrast, I watched the Sockeye/Canada game the
> other night, and other than some awkward self-officiation moments,
------------------------------------------
it
> was a much faster paced (on the field, not between points obviously),
> more aggressive, more exciting game.
commentator even made a comment about them "padding up" at one
point......as the refs were obvioulsy "lettin em play". i mean, you
cant tell me that there would have been a good 20 calls made if the
players were givin that allowance
---------------------------------------
Pretty much every point all the
> players were in full sprint,
the stack a lot
----------------------------------
defenders constantly making great bids,
> and there were plenty of exciting hucks that ended up in the endzone,
> not 5 yards short as seems to happen in the AUDL somewhat often.
you cant tell me the disc dosent move faster
------------------------------------
> Let's face it, the wider field isn't implemented because it's good for
> the gameplay, it's just so they can use the football fields already in
> place.
so what. its a lets kill two birds with one stone kinda thing. i and
> the gameplay, it's just so they can use the football fields already in
> place.
constituates of mine have said that elite level ultimate would do good
to switch to a 6 on 6 game for some time (due to the cloggish/milling
nature of too many people on the field) so, to me, the bigger field
resolves this.
----------------------------------------
While using nice stadiums is definitely a positive for the
> sport, having to answer the question of "oh what kind of field is
> ultimate played on?" with "oh we just use football fields because it's
> convenient and throw some cones out because we aren't allowed to paint
> the endzones" detracts from legitimacy of the sport.
makes perfect sense. also, the field of ultimate has ALWAYS been the
same......so why would it make sense to do things like reduce the
stall count but not increase the size of the field. to me it promotes
more scoring which is a positive. you are just an old school
traditionalist that is probably of the anti ref persuasion too so its
not surprising that your type would be against other progressive
aspects. maybe rather than traditional ultimate keep their narrow 40
yard foeld they should just swotch to an 8 on 8 game, ever thought of
that?
Alex Peters
Jun 3, 2012, 4:51:52 PM6/3/12
to
> and how is more scoring less exciting. you must be a soccer fan
More scoring is less exciting if the passes are open and defenders are
jogging because they can't cover the space. Besides, D's often lead
to fast breaks and scores. Hard defense doesn't automatically mean
less scores, it just means the offense has to play harder and faster.
If the Sockeye/Canada game were played by AUDL rules, it likely would
have ended at a higher score than 23-20. AUDL games actually remind
me more soccer games now that you mention it, lots of undefended
passes in the midfield and swinging the disc around against relatively
lax dump defense.
> so, it just makes the d playes that much more exciting
when they happen they are great? Now that is a soccer argument.
Tight D is exciting, and great offense against tight D is exciting.
JB
Jun 3, 2012, 6:10:03 PM6/3/12
to
Well, I guess this is the laboratory ulticritic has been
yearning for. Refs. Tucked-in jerseys. Dancin' girls.
Bells and whistles. Announcers! Everything you've always
said the USAU should be doing that will result in ultimate
"going mainstream."
So, if ultimate doesn't "go mainstream" with the AUDL,
you'll admit you're totally full of shit, right?
--
Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com
yearning for. Refs. Tucked-in jerseys. Dancin' girls.
Bells and whistles. Announcers! Everything you've always
said the USAU should be doing that will result in ultimate
"going mainstream."
So, if ultimate doesn't "go mainstream" with the AUDL,
you'll admit you're totally full of shit, right?
--
Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
Jun 3, 2012, 6:20:16 PM6/3/12
to
On Jun 3, 4:51 pm, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:.
-----------------------------------------------------
Besides, D's often lead
> to fast breaks and scores.
even with a narrow field? hows that work?
-----------------------------------
Hard defense doesn't automatically mean
> less scores, it just means the offense has to play harder and faster.
that sounds like some made up circular logic to me
-----------------------------------------------------------
never know for sure, right. the only thing we would know for sure is
that it would be a much more entertaining game and an easier product
to watch and sell.
------------------------------------
AUDL games actually remind
> me more soccer games
accept for the lack of scoring, right? so basically, with the audl
you get the gest of both worlds. maybe they should put a goal with a
goaly in the back of each endzone, like i've been sugesting, and add a
whole new dimention of excitement to the game........with a pass into
the goal counting as an extra point AND (I JUST THOUGHT OF THIS)
allowing the goaly to come out and help contest a catch in the
endzone.......with the draw being the risk of leaving the goal open
for that uncontested "extra point".
-----------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
now that you mention it, lots of undefended
> passes in the midfield and swinging the disc around against relatively
> lax dump defense.
which, to many, is percieved as entertaining. i mean, sometimes i
find that watching an offense work through a zone (with lots of
uncontested passes) is more entertaining than a man on man
O.......especially with this spread O that teams run these days
-------------------------------------------------
>
> > so, it just makes the d playes that much more exciting
>
> So defensive plays are exciting because there are so few of them that
> when they happen they are great?
sure, why not
---------------------------
Now that is a soccer argument.
> Tight D is exciting, and great offense against tight D is exciting.
only in soccer there is very little scoring and since a wider field
enables MORE scoring i fail to see how its a soccer argument
> > and how is more scoring less exciting. you must be a soccer fan
>
> More scoring is less exciting if the passes are open and defenders are
> jogging because they can't cover the space.
but with the lower stall count they have to get passes off sooner
>
> More scoring is less exciting if the passes are open and defenders are
> jogging because they can't cover the space.
-----------------------------------------------------
Besides, D's often lead
> to fast breaks and scores.
-----------------------------------
Hard defense doesn't automatically mean
> less scores, it just means the offense has to play harder and faster.
-----------------------------------------------------------
> If the Sockeye/Canada game were played by AUDL rules, it likely would
> have ended at a higher score than 23-20.
well, "lets start the maddness" is what i say. untill they do we will
> have ended at a higher score than 23-20.
never know for sure, right. the only thing we would know for sure is
that it would be a much more entertaining game and an easier product
to watch and sell.
------------------------------------
AUDL games actually remind
> me more soccer games
you get the gest of both worlds. maybe they should put a goal with a
goaly in the back of each endzone, like i've been sugesting, and add a
whole new dimention of excitement to the game........with a pass into
the goal counting as an extra point AND (I JUST THOUGHT OF THIS)
allowing the goaly to come out and help contest a catch in the
endzone.......with the draw being the risk of leaving the goal open
for that uncontested "extra point".
-----------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
now that you mention it, lots of undefended
> passes in the midfield and swinging the disc around against relatively
> lax dump defense.
find that watching an offense work through a zone (with lots of
uncontested passes) is more entertaining than a man on man
O.......especially with this spread O that teams run these days
-------------------------------------------------
>
> > so, it just makes the d playes that much more exciting
>
> So defensive plays are exciting because there are so few of them that
> when they happen they are great?
---------------------------
Now that is a soccer argument.
> Tight D is exciting, and great offense against tight D is exciting.
enables MORE scoring i fail to see how its a soccer argument
ulticritic
Jun 3, 2012, 6:32:22 PM6/3/12
to
On Jun 3, 6:10 pm, JB <johndborgme...@gmail.com> wrote:.
> Well, I guess this is the laboratory ulticritic has been
> yearning for. Refs. Tucked-in jerseys. Dancin' girls.
> Bells and whistles.
yea, only its hardly a laboratory when every other sport is played
with those same enhancements. its really just a matter of obvious
visualization
------------------------------------------------
Announcers! Everything you've always
> said the USAU should be doing that will result in ultimate
> "going mainstream."
yep, like i said, obvious visualization
--------------------------------------------
leage that was established. there were many other leagues prior to
the nfl that helped in the nfls' eventual success. so even if the
audl folds i would still contend that the modern model (with refs,
dancin girls, bells, whistles and the likes) will be the model that
does succeed. so lets put it this way.... if a version of ultimate
that is void of refs and all the other bells and whistles (like the
current lame ass usau version) DOES go mainstream THEN i will admit
that i'm full of shit. but, c'mon man, you dont really forsee that
happening, do you
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
> Well, I guess this is the laboratory ulticritic has been
> yearning for. Refs. Tucked-in jerseys. Dancin' girls.
> Bells and whistles.
with those same enhancements. its really just a matter of obvious
visualization
------------------------------------------------
Announcers! Everything you've always
> said the USAU should be doing that will result in ultimate
> "going mainstream."
--------------------------------------------
>
> So, if ultimate doesn't "go mainstream" with the AUDL,
> you'll admit you're totally full of shit, right?
well, pro football didnt go mainstream with the first modern football
> So, if ultimate doesn't "go mainstream" with the AUDL,
> you'll admit you're totally full of shit, right?
leage that was established. there were many other leagues prior to
the nfl that helped in the nfls' eventual success. so even if the
audl folds i would still contend that the modern model (with refs,
dancin girls, bells, whistles and the likes) will be the model that
does succeed. so lets put it this way.... if a version of ultimate
that is void of refs and all the other bells and whistles (like the
current lame ass usau version) DOES go mainstream THEN i will admit
that i'm full of shit. but, c'mon man, you dont really forsee that
happening, do you
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
Reggie Fanelli
Jun 3, 2012, 8:25:52 PM6/3/12
to
> So, if ultimate doesn't "go mainstream" with the AUDL,
> you'll admit you're totally full of shit, right?
--ok....for it NOT to be mainstream, it can't ever be in the Top 10 on
ESPN.
it can't ever be discussed seriously....talking about there being a
lot of athletic people playing ....on an ESPN show where they are
voting 'true/false' and then comparing their answers to the rest of
the country's votes.....(not sure the name of that show)
oops....AUDL has already made that stuff happen.
let's just go ahead and call ultimate.....super duper well on it's way
to being mainstream.
so....what are you going to admit?
ulticritic
Jun 3, 2012, 8:38:24 PM6/3/12
to
On Jun 3, 8:25 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> so....what are you going to admit?
yea JB (of which, does that stand for jonny bravo?) what are you going
>
> so....what are you going to admit?
to admit? that, maybe, i was right all this time, and that the usau
administrators are a bunch of clue-less dipshits????
Knappy
Jun 3, 2012, 9:05:03 PM6/3/12
to
Alex, you & the other spirit zealots better stay off RSD!
Toad, Alex is entitled to his opinion about the width of the
field. In the Skyd & other AUDL articles I've read, others
have also suggested significantly wider field making offense
too easy.
Toad, Alex is entitled to his opinion about the width of the
field. In the Skyd & other AUDL articles I've read, others
have also suggested significantly wider field making offense
too easy.
ulticritic
Jun 3, 2012, 10:04:19 PM6/3/12
to
start callin for a 35 yard wide field to further increase the
difficulty level for the O and thus making for more defensive bids.
like i said, they are just stigmatized to their own subjective
stigmatization. like bob dylan sang in his song "the times they are a
changin"........"please get out of the new world if ya cant lend a
hand for the times........." tpoint being, there are always old
traditonalists that are resistant to change......and those type of
people are usually left in the dust as the world progresses around them
JB
Jun 4, 2012, 12:15:06 AM6/4/12
to
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to hate on the AUDL. I
wish them well. I'm trying to make fun of your idea of
ultimate as somehow on the road to the NFL. It is never
going to be on the level of pro football, dude. Ever.
Being a frisbee player is never going to be a badass thing
in the eyes of Mainstream Joe, American Sports Fan. Ever.
ESPN is on 24/7. There isn't much sports-related stuff they
WON'T put on there. Have you ever watched that channel
during the day? (Wait.. of course you have.) I don't think
there is a working definition of "mainstream," but if
getting a highlight clip is on ESPN is it in your mind...
well congratulations. Is this it? Do chicks dig you now?
All those chicks who weren't impressed by you being awesome
at ultimate before the clip aired sure as heck aren't going
to be impressed by you being awesome at ultimate AFTER it
aired.
I mean, that's what this is really about, right? You work
so hard and you're so darn good at ultimate, you just want
somebody to care, right? You want to get "recognized as an
athlete"? You think ultimate is so cool and you just know
that as soon as everyone else sees how cool it is, they'll
jump on board and you'll get the recognition you deserve as
an athlete of your caliber. Just a few more clips on ESPN,
and people will stop thinking you're a hippie and asking
where your dog is. Don't you just HATE that?
When those AUDL dancin' girls tell their friends "I'm an
ultimate frisbee cheerleader" and their friends don't go
"What?" then I'll admit you're right.
wish them well. I'm trying to make fun of your idea of
ultimate as somehow on the road to the NFL. It is never
going to be on the level of pro football, dude. Ever.
Being a frisbee player is never going to be a badass thing
in the eyes of Mainstream Joe, American Sports Fan. Ever.
ESPN is on 24/7. There isn't much sports-related stuff they
WON'T put on there. Have you ever watched that channel
during the day? (Wait.. of course you have.) I don't think
there is a working definition of "mainstream," but if
getting a highlight clip is on ESPN is it in your mind...
well congratulations. Is this it? Do chicks dig you now?
All those chicks who weren't impressed by you being awesome
at ultimate before the clip aired sure as heck aren't going
to be impressed by you being awesome at ultimate AFTER it
aired.
I mean, that's what this is really about, right? You work
so hard and you're so darn good at ultimate, you just want
somebody to care, right? You want to get "recognized as an
athlete"? You think ultimate is so cool and you just know
that as soon as everyone else sees how cool it is, they'll
jump on board and you'll get the recognition you deserve as
an athlete of your caliber. Just a few more clips on ESPN,
and people will stop thinking you're a hippie and asking
where your dog is. Don't you just HATE that?
When those AUDL dancin' girls tell their friends "I'm an
ultimate frisbee cheerleader" and their friends don't go
"What?" then I'll admit you're right.
James Highsmith
Jun 4, 2012, 5:50:05 AM6/4/12
to
Having played in a full AUDL game, I can attest to the
larger field making offense too easy. Obviously still turns,
but gone are the days of a sweet in-cut catch block.
Granted, I did play the game in the Silverdome, so with no
wind + large fields, it seemed that playing defense was
ridiculously hard. Every player has sweet break throws to
space, a sweet hammer and a 70 yard huck when playing AUDL
field size and at the Silverdome. Even when staying on
someones hip, the throw to space is easy and the sideline
hardly ever cuts it off.
Every other aspect of the AUDL was great, including the
officiating. No fouls are called on typical down field
physicality, opposed to "normal" ultimate where it's a
downfield foul and doesn't really do anything but slow down
the game.
larger field making offense too easy. Obviously still turns,
but gone are the days of a sweet in-cut catch block.
Granted, I did play the game in the Silverdome, so with no
wind + large fields, it seemed that playing defense was
ridiculously hard. Every player has sweet break throws to
space, a sweet hammer and a 70 yard huck when playing AUDL
field size and at the Silverdome. Even when staying on
someones hip, the throw to space is easy and the sideline
hardly ever cuts it off.
Every other aspect of the AUDL was great, including the
officiating. No fouls are called on typical down field
physicality, opposed to "normal" ultimate where it's a
downfield foul and doesn't really do anything but slow down
the game.
Reggie Fanelli
Jun 4, 2012, 7:16:35 AM6/4/12
to
> Having played in a full AUDL game, I can attest to the
> larger field making offense too easy.
---i've coached at a tournament where the fields were all.....mis-
proportioned(????????)
the TD squeezed fields where ever they could....how ever they could.
some were VERY short AND VERY wide...which played into the hands of
teams running spread O, as you can imagine.
a team that took advantage of it in pool play to earn a win.....got
their fannies handed to them in the Finals of the same weekend.
too wide.....is too wide.
Reggie Fanelli
Jun 4, 2012, 7:22:23 AM6/4/12
to
I'm trying to make fun of your idea of
> ultimate as somehow on the road to the NFL.
It is never
> going to be on the level of pro football, dude.
---you're a nut, if you think Toad's saying that ultimate is on its
> ultimate as somehow on the road to the NFL.
It is never
> going to be on the level of pro football, dude.
way to being bigger than football.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Being a frisbee player is never going to be a badass thing
> in the eyes of Mainstream Joe, American Sports Fan. Ever.
---unless you made that layout grab in the AUDL...or that other one
> in the eyes of Mainstream Joe, American Sports Fan. Ever.
from a worlds a while ago...
or....if someone else happened to see those....and then they meet you/
me/another ultimate player.
~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't think
> there is a working definition of "mainstream," but if
> getting a highlight clip is on ESPN is it in your mind...
> well congratulations. Is this it? Do chicks dig you now?
---uhm....chicks have always dug me....sincerely.
> there is a working definition of "mainstream," but if
> getting a highlight clip is on ESPN is it in your mind...
> well congratulations. Is this it? Do chicks dig you now?
as for what 'mainstream' is.....well...they aren't showing ultimate
players BECAUSE they're dressed in skirts or gowns while
playing....so...huge step towards mainstream, since it's being
covered.....like.....a.....sport.
~~~~~~~~~~
> All those chicks who weren't impressed by you being awesome
> at ultimate before the clip aired sure as heck aren't going
> to be impressed by you being awesome at ultimate AFTER it
> aired.
---not sure who you're writing to.....
> at ultimate before the clip aired sure as heck aren't going
> to be impressed by you being awesome at ultimate AFTER it
> aired.
again.....chicks have always been impressed by me.....doing
anything....
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I mean, that's what this is really about, right? You work
> so hard and you're so darn good at ultimate, you just want
> somebody to care, right? You want to get "recognized as an
> athlete"? You think ultimate is so cool and you just know
> that as soon as everyone else sees how cool it is, they'll
> jump on board and you'll get the recognition you deserve as
> an athlete of your caliber. Just a few more clips on ESPN,
> and people will stop thinking you're a hippie and asking
> where your dog is. Don't you just HATE that?
---i'd rather them ask about the dog....than have to read your post.
> so hard and you're so darn good at ultimate, you just want
> somebody to care, right? You want to get "recognized as an
> athlete"? You think ultimate is so cool and you just know
> that as soon as everyone else sees how cool it is, they'll
> jump on board and you'll get the recognition you deserve as
> an athlete of your caliber. Just a few more clips on ESPN,
> and people will stop thinking you're a hippie and asking
> where your dog is. Don't you just HATE that?
~~~~~~~
> When those AUDL dancin' girls tell their friends "I'm an
> ultimate frisbee cheerleader" and their friends don't go
> "What?" then I'll admit you're right.
---i don't think you're right to begin with right here.
> ultimate frisbee cheerleader" and their friends don't go
> "What?" then I'll admit you're right.
ulticritic
Jun 4, 2012, 9:01:28 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 12:15 am, JB <johndborgme...@gmail.com> wrote.
:
you?
---------------------------------------------
I
> wish them well. I'm trying to make fun of your idea of
> ultimate as somehow on the road to the NFL.
which isny hard to do at all. i simply used football as an extreem
example of how even the first pro league in THAT sport didnt take. so
can we use lax as an example of ultimate being on the read to THAT
level of mainstreamism?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It is never
> going to be on the level of pro football, dude. Ever.
i never said it would......but youll have to admit that the nfl wasnt
the 1st pro leage that football boastyed. try to understand the
analogy i was makin with yor original "me being full of shit" scenerio
----------------------------------------------------
ass thing to be? is being a soccer player? i think ultimate has a
chance of getting up there wyth those sports......especially since NOW
there is a legit league playing with legit rules that the young kids
can aspire to.......cause, lets be for real, there is very little to
aspire to when it comes to playin in usau club ultimate.
-------------------------------------------
getting exposure there?
-----------------------------------------------------
Have you ever watched that channel
> during the day? (Wait.. of course you have.) I don't think
> there is a working definition of "mainstream," but if
> getting a highlight clip is on ESPN is it in your mind...
> well congratulations. Is this it? Do chicks dig you now?
chicks digging it does no equate to it being mainstream to
me.......and i was just feeding mikes perception of what "mainstream"
means, not that that perception dosent have any validity to it. to me
mainstream means ultimate being a varsity hsaa sport, being a varsity
ncaa sport and having a pro or semi pro league. so i guess, no thanks
to usau, we are gonna have to rely on the top down approach to achieve
"mainstreamness". and, like the guy from that ulti news thread
contends, the sport will need to have more of an audl structure to
maximize its potential of getting hsaa and ncaa status at the hs and
college levels. its just unfortunate that this isnt a goal OR EVEN A
DESIRE (for obvious reasons) of the governing body of the sport.
-------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
You work
> so hard and you're so darn good at ultimate, you just want
> somebody to care, right? You want to get "recognized as an
> athlete"?
yes, but with out the right administrators with the right goals it
just never gets done. alas, enter the audl and now people can
actually see the RIGHT way of doing things
-----------------------------------------
You think ultimate is so cool and you just know
> that as soon as everyone else sees how cool it is, they'll
> jump on board and you'll get the recognition you deserve as
> an athlete of your caliber.
IF its packaged and presented properly.......but usau has failed
miserably in doing such
-------------------------------------
Just a few more clips on ESPN,
> and people will stop thinking you're a hippie and asking
> where your dog is. Don't you just HATE that?
well, that reputation is due to 40 years of having a spirit centric
governing body and, even i will admit that it will take more than afew
espn clips to undo that. i'm still interested in hearing what you are
willing to admit relating to usaus' ineptness and lack of vision
--------------------------------------------
you to admit i'm right about how lame usau administrators are?
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
:
> Just to be clear, I'm not trying to hate on the AUDL.
but for the sake of full disclosure, yoy ARE a usau loyalisy, arent
you?
---------------------------------------------
I
> wish them well. I'm trying to make fun of your idea of
> ultimate as somehow on the road to the NFL.
example of how even the first pro league in THAT sport didnt take. so
can we use lax as an example of ultimate being on the read to THAT
level of mainstreamism?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It is never
> going to be on the level of pro football, dude. Ever.
the 1st pro leage that football boastyed. try to understand the
analogy i was makin with yor original "me being full of shit" scenerio
----------------------------------------------------
> Being a frisbee player is never going to be a badass thing
> in the eyes of Mainstream Joe, American Sports Fan. Ever.
you dont know that. i mean, i being B-BALL PLAYER considered a bad
> in the eyes of Mainstream Joe, American Sports Fan. Ever.
ass thing to be? is being a soccer player? i think ultimate has a
chance of getting up there wyth those sports......especially since NOW
there is a legit league playing with legit rules that the young kids
can aspire to.......cause, lets be for real, there is very little to
aspire to when it comes to playin in usau club ultimate.
-------------------------------------------
>
> ESPN is on 24/7. There isn't much sports-related stuff they
> WON'T put on there.
then whas has ultimate, up untill the audl, had such a hard time
> ESPN is on 24/7. There isn't much sports-related stuff they
> WON'T put on there.
getting exposure there?
-----------------------------------------------------
Have you ever watched that channel
> during the day? (Wait.. of course you have.) I don't think
> there is a working definition of "mainstream," but if
> getting a highlight clip is on ESPN is it in your mind...
> well congratulations. Is this it? Do chicks dig you now?
me.......and i was just feeding mikes perception of what "mainstream"
means, not that that perception dosent have any validity to it. to me
mainstream means ultimate being a varsity hsaa sport, being a varsity
ncaa sport and having a pro or semi pro league. so i guess, no thanks
to usau, we are gonna have to rely on the top down approach to achieve
"mainstreamness". and, like the guy from that ulti news thread
contends, the sport will need to have more of an audl structure to
maximize its potential of getting hsaa and ncaa status at the hs and
college levels. its just unfortunate that this isnt a goal OR EVEN A
DESIRE (for obvious reasons) of the governing body of the sport.
-------------------------------------------------------------
>
> All those chicks who weren't impressed by you being awesome
> at ultimate before the clip aired sure as heck aren't going
> to be impressed by you being awesome at ultimate AFTER it
> aired.
after it goes mainstream they might
> All those chicks who weren't impressed by you being awesome
> at ultimate before the clip aired sure as heck aren't going
> to be impressed by you being awesome at ultimate AFTER it
> aired.
-----------------------------------------
>
> I mean, that's what this is really about, right?
no......thats just part of the end result
> I mean, that's what this is really about, right?
----------------------------------------------
You work
> so hard and you're so darn good at ultimate, you just want
> somebody to care, right? You want to get "recognized as an
> athlete"?
just never gets done. alas, enter the audl and now people can
actually see the RIGHT way of doing things
-----------------------------------------
You think ultimate is so cool and you just know
> that as soon as everyone else sees how cool it is, they'll
> jump on board and you'll get the recognition you deserve as
> an athlete of your caliber.
miserably in doing such
-------------------------------------
Just a few more clips on ESPN,
> and people will stop thinking you're a hippie and asking
> where your dog is. Don't you just HATE that?
governing body and, even i will admit that it will take more than afew
espn clips to undo that. i'm still interested in hearing what you are
willing to admit relating to usaus' ineptness and lack of vision
--------------------------------------------
>
> When those AUDL dancin' girls tell their friends "I'm an
> ultimate frisbee cheerleader" and their friends don't go
> "What?" then I'll admit you're right.
seriously......thats your benchmark? and just what will it take for
> When those AUDL dancin' girls tell their friends "I'm an
> ultimate frisbee cheerleader" and their friends don't go
> "What?" then I'll admit you're right.
you to admit i'm right about how lame usau administrators are?
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
Jun 4, 2012, 9:15:32 AM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 5:50 am, James Highsmith <jhigh121...@yahoo.com> wrote:.
> Having played in a full AUDL game, I can attest to the
> larger field making offense too easy. Obviously still turns,
> but gone are the days of a sweet in-cut catch block.
wierd that you say that cause i coulda swore thats what one of those
espn top ten plays featured
---------------------------------------------
>
> Granted, I did play the game in the Silverdome, so with no
> wind + large fields, it seemed that playing defense was
> ridiculously hard.
good.....cause here in america its scoring that sells
--------------------------------------------------
Every player has sweet break throws to
> space, a sweet hammer and a 70 yard huck when playing AUDL
> field size and at the Silverdome.
which is exactly what fans want.......listen to the cranes/spinners
commentator and how he loves the hammer throw.
------------------------------------------
Even when staying on
> someones hip, the throw to space is easy and the sideline
> hardly ever cuts it off.
great......it just keeps the play/flow moving
----------------------------------------
there arent two sets of lines that are visually confusing. i think
its just a matter of adjusting anyways. think about it, had the field
beeb 50 yards wide this whole time ans suddenly shifted to a 40 yd
width there woul be the same kind of critisisms only opposite......and
like i said, if having a narrow field is so great then why not make em
even narrower? that way you could, logistically, fit two on a
standard soccer field with ample space on the sidelines.
--------------------------------------------------
including the
> officiating. No fouls are called on typical down field
> physicality, opposed to "normal" ultimate where it's a
> downfield foul and doesn't really do anything but slow down
> the game.
ARE YOU USAU ANTI REF KOOKS HEARING THIS???? and i'll assume that
james highsmith is a usau member
>
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
> Having played in a full AUDL game, I can attest to the
> larger field making offense too easy. Obviously still turns,
> but gone are the days of a sweet in-cut catch block.
espn top ten plays featured
---------------------------------------------
>
> Granted, I did play the game in the Silverdome, so with no
> wind + large fields, it seemed that playing defense was
> ridiculously hard.
--------------------------------------------------
Every player has sweet break throws to
> space, a sweet hammer and a 70 yard huck when playing AUDL
> field size and at the Silverdome.
commentator and how he loves the hammer throw.
------------------------------------------
Even when staying on
> someones hip, the throw to space is easy and the sideline
> hardly ever cuts it off.
----------------------------------------
>
> Every other aspect of the AUDL was great,
well i think the wide field aspect is great too......especially since
> Every other aspect of the AUDL was great,
there arent two sets of lines that are visually confusing. i think
its just a matter of adjusting anyways. think about it, had the field
beeb 50 yards wide this whole time ans suddenly shifted to a 40 yd
width there woul be the same kind of critisisms only opposite......and
like i said, if having a narrow field is so great then why not make em
even narrower? that way you could, logistically, fit two on a
standard soccer field with ample space on the sidelines.
--------------------------------------------------
including the
> officiating. No fouls are called on typical down field
> physicality, opposed to "normal" ultimate where it's a
> downfield foul and doesn't really do anything but slow down
> the game.
james highsmith is a usau member
>
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
Not Ultimate
Jun 4, 2012, 12:40:03 PM6/4/12
to
I find it difficult to compare the most recent
sockeye/furious game with the AUDL at large. The players
are not at the same skill level. I'll just keep crossing my
fingers that a significant portion of those sockeye/furious
players will be joining the AUDL in 2014.
So I guess to answer the original question of "what's not to
love about the audl" I would say the fact that it doesn't
yet have the top stars (with a few notable exceptions,
obviously). I would love to see that change in the future.
Without the AUDL we get a couple games a year that actually
matter (nationals, and maybe regionals).
sockeye/furious game with the AUDL at large. The players
are not at the same skill level. I'll just keep crossing my
fingers that a significant portion of those sockeye/furious
players will be joining the AUDL in 2014.
So I guess to answer the original question of "what's not to
love about the audl" I would say the fact that it doesn't
yet have the top stars (with a few notable exceptions,
obviously). I would love to see that change in the future.
Without the AUDL we get a couple games a year that actually
matter (nationals, and maybe regionals).
JB
Jun 4, 2012, 12:50:03 PM6/4/12
to
Whatever the faults of the USAU administration, wasting
players' money trying to chase the dream of "mainstream
ultimate" is not one of them. Let the AUDL, and their
investors, run the risk and reap the reward of testing the
demand for ultimate in the market place.
Trying to manufacture demand is hard, unless you've got the
advertising budget of Apple.
players' money trying to chase the dream of "mainstream
ultimate" is not one of them. Let the AUDL, and their
investors, run the risk and reap the reward of testing the
demand for ultimate in the market place.
Trying to manufacture demand is hard, unless you've got the
advertising budget of Apple.
Euh
Jun 4, 2012, 12:55:05 PM6/4/12
to
ultimate is not a name wrote on Mon, 04 June 2012 09:37
hucks) were the result of strong pressure put on the handler
and the dump. You barely see that in the AUDL.
> I find it difficult to compare the most recent
> sockeye/furious game with the AUDL at large. The players
> are not at the same skill level.
Most turnovers in the Sockeye/Furious game (excluding failed
> sockeye/furious game with the AUDL at large. The players
> are not at the same skill level.
hucks) were the result of strong pressure put on the handler
and the dump. You barely see that in the AUDL.
JB
Jun 4, 2012, 12:55:06 PM6/4/12
to
Ultimate's reputation as a hippy sport is NOT due to the
governing body's preference for self officiation. People who
think ultimate is a hippy sport DON'T KNOW anything about
the rules of ultimate or the governing body.
People think ultimate is a hippy sport BECAUSE IT IS PLAYED
WITH A FRISBEE.
governing body's preference for self officiation. People who
think ultimate is a hippy sport DON'T KNOW anything about
the rules of ultimate or the governing body.
People think ultimate is a hippy sport BECAUSE IT IS PLAYED
WITH A FRISBEE.
James Highsmith
Jun 4, 2012, 2:45:03 PM6/4/12
to
Defending a 30 yard dump throw to space isn't the easiest
thing...
thing...
ulticritic
Jun 4, 2012, 4:18:32 PM6/4/12
to
that they represent high level ultimate well enough
ulticritic
Jun 4, 2012, 4:23:00 PM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 12:50 pm, JB <johndborgme...@gmail.com> wrote:.
> Whatever the faults of the USAU administration, wasting
> players' money trying to chase the dream of "mainstream
> ultimate" is not one of them.
how do you know?
----------------------------------
Let the AUDL, and their
> investors, run the risk and reap the reward of testing the
> demand for ultimate in the market place.
think they arent. its just that usau will look like fools if they do
succed......and if everyone starts luvin and callin for reffed ulti
-------------------------------------
on already they could run 2 audl's
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
> Whatever the faults of the USAU administration, wasting
> players' money trying to chase the dream of "mainstream
> ultimate" is not one of them.
----------------------------------
Let the AUDL, and their
> investors, run the risk and reap the reward of testing the
> demand for ultimate in the market place.
succed......and if everyone starts luvin and callin for reffed ulti
-------------------------------------
>
> Trying to manufacture demand is hard, unless you've got the
> advertising budget of Apple.
pfft, with the money usau blows on half the shit they waste our money
> Trying to manufacture demand is hard, unless you've got the
> advertising budget of Apple.
on already they could run 2 audl's
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
Jun 4, 2012, 4:32:04 PM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 12:55 pm, JB <johndborgme...@gmail.com> wrote:.
> Ultimate's reputation as a hippy sport is NOT due to the
> governing body's preference for self officiation.
pfffft, guess again jack
--------------------------------
People who
> think ultimate is a hippy sport DON'T KNOW anything about
> the rules of ultimate or the governing body.
they dont have to......its all perception......AND......perception is
reality
-----------------------------------------
frisbee.......they think its a hippy sport because thats who invented
it (and the no refs thing).
hint, hint.....whats the second best use for a frisbee......to get the
seeds out of weed......of course with the weed they are growing these
days there are very few seeds
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
> Ultimate's reputation as a hippy sport is NOT due to the
> governing body's preference for self officiation.
--------------------------------
People who
> think ultimate is a hippy sport DON'T KNOW anything about
> the rules of ultimate or the governing body.
reality
-----------------------------------------
>
> People think ultimate is a hippy sport BECAUSE IT IS PLAYED
> WITH A FRISBEE.
no, THEY THINK THERE ARE DOGS because its played with a
> People think ultimate is a hippy sport BECAUSE IT IS PLAYED
> WITH A FRISBEE.
frisbee.......they think its a hippy sport because thats who invented
it (and the no refs thing).
hint, hint.....whats the second best use for a frisbee......to get the
seeds out of weed......of course with the weed they are growing these
days there are very few seeds
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
Jun 4, 2012, 4:33:36 PM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 2:45 pm, James Highsmith <jhigh121...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Defending a 30 yard dump throw to space isn't the easiest
> thing...
either way......i like watching the game better with the wider field
> Defending a 30 yard dump throw to space isn't the easiest
> thing...
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
dusty
Jun 4, 2012, 4:36:24 PM6/4/12
to
1. Wider Field.
It makes the games less exciting. There are just fewer takaeaways
and the same number of giveaways. My hunch on this is just that the
defenses haven't figured out effective ways to attack the offenses w/
in the larger space. I don't think that the field needs to be narrow
for this to happen, but that the defenses must develop over time. My
second thought is that "poachy/switchy d" is the jumpoff point for how
the defense must attack in the future. Not the end-all-be-all that
all y'all "stigmatized usau supporters" would assume.
2. Longer Field.
I think all those hucks that end 5yds out of the endzone are
similar to not having a competent defense to deal with the wider
field. How many of those players have been practicing their 70yd
bombs all these years? Not as many as have been practicing their 50yd
bombs. Just because there is more field space doesn't mean that
everyone automatically knows how to use it nor do they suddenly gain
the skills/strength to do so. I think this becomes less of an issue
as the league continues.
3. Field Space in general.
All of this space leads to slower-developing isolation cuts (guys
starts a cut, gets 10 yards deeper than the rest of hte players, but
keeps going as the play moves upfield, then, using the width of the
field, gets a sweet banking throw into space to abuse the mismatch or
use the great cut), from what i've seen. As well as the unmarked
resets. what never made sense to me (or "Crazy" Frank) is that
ultimate didn't use those unmarked 30 yd dumps with the smaller
field...
4. Hats
Sure... make them all have matching hats, but keep some teams at a
financial disadvantage so that the players can't wear their own
hats... that's like Major League Baseball! We should really make it
more socialist like the NFL... Anyway, who cares if someone wears the
hats with a little tilt? with a farmer's back-tilt? screwed down
tight? to the side? backward? whatever. match the hats and let 'em
go from there.
5. Indoor/Outdoor
The Platonic ideal of Ultimate exists indoors.
6. Shorter Stall
How long have people (like me) been telling the USAU (and anyone
who will listen) that the 10 second stall is an insult to athletes?
Well, since at least 2001. I'm happy someone changed this. And yes,
the dumbass doubleteam rule and the increased physicality and the
"post-foot-set-travel=TO".
7. D's-> Fastbreaks
No matter the size of the field or the sport D's lead to
fastbreaks. Yes, in usau ultimate. Yes int he NBA. Yes in soccer,
yes in lacrosse, yes in... well, not the NFL because we have the
accursed downtime btw every play. I love the NFL, but the accursed
downtime will always make me angry.
8. Scoring
We all know there isn't really that much scoring in football,
right? And that 35-28 is actually 5-4? I'll never grasp how America
can love baseball's mindnumbing low-scoring repetition but hate
soccer's cerebral low-scoring divergence. Should I here mention that
the most common complaint about my own favorite sport (basketball) is
that it is marred by *too much scoring* and the belief that NBA
players can't/won't play defense? The reason they look like they
can't play defense is because defense is ridiculously hard in the
NBA. Maybe the real version of ultimate is more like the NBA.
Maybe not, but the balance btw scoring and not-scoring is important.
As is the move of ultimate more toward a true "field sport" in which
the ball doesn't just stay in one location for 7-10 seconds at a
time.
Maybe on day we'll live in my dream world where in-play timeouts don't
exist in any sport...
music on tap: saigon, the greatest story never told
dusty.rhodes
at gmail.com
It makes the games less exciting. There are just fewer takaeaways
and the same number of giveaways. My hunch on this is just that the
defenses haven't figured out effective ways to attack the offenses w/
in the larger space. I don't think that the field needs to be narrow
for this to happen, but that the defenses must develop over time. My
second thought is that "poachy/switchy d" is the jumpoff point for how
the defense must attack in the future. Not the end-all-be-all that
all y'all "stigmatized usau supporters" would assume.
2. Longer Field.
I think all those hucks that end 5yds out of the endzone are
similar to not having a competent defense to deal with the wider
field. How many of those players have been practicing their 70yd
bombs all these years? Not as many as have been practicing their 50yd
bombs. Just because there is more field space doesn't mean that
everyone automatically knows how to use it nor do they suddenly gain
the skills/strength to do so. I think this becomes less of an issue
as the league continues.
3. Field Space in general.
All of this space leads to slower-developing isolation cuts (guys
starts a cut, gets 10 yards deeper than the rest of hte players, but
keeps going as the play moves upfield, then, using the width of the
field, gets a sweet banking throw into space to abuse the mismatch or
use the great cut), from what i've seen. As well as the unmarked
resets. what never made sense to me (or "Crazy" Frank) is that
ultimate didn't use those unmarked 30 yd dumps with the smaller
field...
4. Hats
Sure... make them all have matching hats, but keep some teams at a
financial disadvantage so that the players can't wear their own
hats... that's like Major League Baseball! We should really make it
more socialist like the NFL... Anyway, who cares if someone wears the
hats with a little tilt? with a farmer's back-tilt? screwed down
tight? to the side? backward? whatever. match the hats and let 'em
go from there.
5. Indoor/Outdoor
The Platonic ideal of Ultimate exists indoors.
6. Shorter Stall
How long have people (like me) been telling the USAU (and anyone
who will listen) that the 10 second stall is an insult to athletes?
Well, since at least 2001. I'm happy someone changed this. And yes,
the dumbass doubleteam rule and the increased physicality and the
"post-foot-set-travel=TO".
7. D's-> Fastbreaks
No matter the size of the field or the sport D's lead to
fastbreaks. Yes, in usau ultimate. Yes int he NBA. Yes in soccer,
yes in lacrosse, yes in... well, not the NFL because we have the
accursed downtime btw every play. I love the NFL, but the accursed
downtime will always make me angry.
8. Scoring
We all know there isn't really that much scoring in football,
right? And that 35-28 is actually 5-4? I'll never grasp how America
can love baseball's mindnumbing low-scoring repetition but hate
soccer's cerebral low-scoring divergence. Should I here mention that
the most common complaint about my own favorite sport (basketball) is
that it is marred by *too much scoring* and the belief that NBA
players can't/won't play defense? The reason they look like they
can't play defense is because defense is ridiculously hard in the
NBA. Maybe the real version of ultimate is more like the NBA.
Maybe not, but the balance btw scoring and not-scoring is important.
As is the move of ultimate more toward a true "field sport" in which
the ball doesn't just stay in one location for 7-10 seconds at a
time.
Maybe on day we'll live in my dream world where in-play timeouts don't
exist in any sport...
music on tap: saigon, the greatest story never told
dusty.rhodes
at gmail.com
JB
Jun 4, 2012, 5:00:03 PM6/4/12
to
no, THEY THINK THERE ARE DOGS because its played with a
frisbee.......they think its a hippy sport because thats
who invented
it (and the no refs thing).
I seriously doubt that people who think ultimate is a hippy
frisbee.......they think its a hippy sport because thats
who invented
it (and the no refs thing).
game actually know anything about who invented ultimate.
The no refs thing is your hobby horse. Joe Sports Fan
doesn't know any of these details. He just knows "wingo
wango frisbee."
hint, hint.....whats the second best use for a
frisbee......to get the
seeds out of weed......of course with the weed they are
growing these
days there are very few seeds
sport.
Reggie Fanelli
Jun 4, 2012, 5:49:54 PM6/4/12
to
> Ultimate's reputation as a hippy sport is NOT due to the
> governing body's preference for self officiation.
---no....the perpetuation of that reputation is assisted greatly by
those kooks.
ulticritic
Jun 4, 2012, 7:36:32 PM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 12:55 pm, Euh <EuhNGro...@hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>
> Most turnovers in the Sockeye/Furious game (excluding failed
> hucks) were the result of strong pressure put on the handler
> and the dump. You barely see that in the AUDL.
good
>>
> Most turnovers in the Sockeye/Furious game (excluding failed
> hucks) were the result of strong pressure put on the handler
> and the dump. You barely see that in the AUDL.
>
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
Jun 4, 2012, 8:02:17 PM6/4/12
to
On Jun 4, 4:36 pm, dusty <dusty.rho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. Wider Field.
> It makes the games less exciting.
not to me
> 1. Wider Field.
> It makes the games less exciting.
-----------------------------
There are just fewer takaeaways
> and the same number of giveaways.
------------------------------
My hunch on this is just that the
> defenses haven't figured out effective ways to attack the offenses w/
> in the larger space.
----------------------------------
I don't think that the field needs to be narrow
> for this to happen, but that the defenses must develop over time. My
> second thought is that "poachy/switchy d" is the jumpoff point for how
> the defense must attack in the future. Not the end-all-be-all that
> all y'all "stigmatized usau supporters" would assume.
--------------------------------------------
>
> 2. Longer Field.
> I think all those hucks that end 5yds out of the endzone are
> similar to not having a competent defense to deal with the wider
> field.
probably because you are notorious for over thinking shit
> 2. Longer Field.
> I think all those hucks that end 5yds out of the endzone are
> similar to not having a competent defense to deal with the wider
> field.
-------------------------------------------
How many of those players have been practicing their 70yd
> bombs all these years? Not as many as have been practicing their 50yd
> bombs. Just because there is more field space doesn't mean that
> everyone automatically knows how to use it nor do they suddenly gain
> the skills/strength to do so. I think this becomes less of an issue
> as the league continues.
audl
------------------------------------
>
> 3. Field Space in general.
> All of this space leads to slower-developing isolation cuts (guys
> starts a cut, gets 10 yards deeper than the rest of hte players, but
> keeps going as the play moves upfield, then, using the width of the
> field, gets a sweet banking throw into space to abuse the mismatch or
> use the great cut), from what i've seen. As well as the unmarked
> resets. what never made sense to me (or "Crazy" Frank) is that
> ultimate didn't use those unmarked 30 yd dumps with the smaller
> field...
>
> 4. Hats
> Sure... make them all have matching hats, but keep some teams at a
> financial disadvantage so that the players can't wear their own
> hats...
dont the owners supply those hats
> 3. Field Space in general.
> All of this space leads to slower-developing isolation cuts (guys
> starts a cut, gets 10 yards deeper than the rest of hte players, but
> keeps going as the play moves upfield, then, using the width of the
> field, gets a sweet banking throw into space to abuse the mismatch or
> use the great cut), from what i've seen. As well as the unmarked
> resets. what never made sense to me (or "Crazy" Frank) is that
> ultimate didn't use those unmarked 30 yd dumps with the smaller
> field...
>
> 4. Hats
> Sure... make them all have matching hats, but keep some teams at a
> financial disadvantage so that the players can't wear their own
> hats...
---------------------------------
that's like Major League Baseball! We should really make it
> more socialist like the NFL... Anyway, who cares if someone wears the
> hats with a little tilt? with a farmer's back-tilt? screwed down
> tight? to the side? backward? whatever. match the hats and let 'em
> go from there.
---------------------------------------
>
> 5. Indoor/Outdoor
> The Platonic ideal of Ultimate exists indoors.
>
> 6. Shorter Stall
> How long have people (like me) been telling the USAU (and anyone
> who will listen) that the 10 second stall is an insult to athletes?
> Well, since at least 2001. I'm happy someone changed this. And yes,
> the dumbass doubleteam rule and the increased physicality and the
> "post-foot-set-travel=TO".
>
> 7. D's-> Fastbreaks
> No matter the size of the field or the sport D's lead to
> fastbreaks. Yes, in usau ultimate. Yes int he NBA. Yes in soccer,
> yes in lacrosse, yes in... well, not the NFL because we have the
> accursed downtime btw every play. I love the NFL, but the accursed
> downtime will always make me angry.
get dtv.....no down time on the redzone.......you can even make your
> 5. Indoor/Outdoor
> The Platonic ideal of Ultimate exists indoors.
>
> 6. Shorter Stall
> How long have people (like me) been telling the USAU (and anyone
> who will listen) that the 10 second stall is an insult to athletes?
> Well, since at least 2001. I'm happy someone changed this. And yes,
> the dumbass doubleteam rule and the increased physicality and the
> "post-foot-set-travel=TO".
>
> 7. D's-> Fastbreaks
> No matter the size of the field or the sport D's lead to
> fastbreaks. Yes, in usau ultimate. Yes int he NBA. Yes in soccer,
> yes in lacrosse, yes in... well, not the NFL because we have the
> accursed downtime btw every play. I love the NFL, but the accursed
> downtime will always make me angry.
own redzone
-----------------------------------------
>
> 8. Scoring
> We all know there isn't really that much scoring in football,
> right? And that 35-28 is actually 5-4? I'll never grasp how America
> can love baseball's mindnumbing low-scoring repetition but hate
> soccer's cerebral low-scoring divergence.
thats called tradition/culture
> 8. Scoring
> We all know there isn't really that much scoring in football,
> right? And that 35-28 is actually 5-4? I'll never grasp how America
> can love baseball's mindnumbing low-scoring repetition but hate
> soccer's cerebral low-scoring divergence.
------------------------------------
Should I here mention that
> the most common complaint about my own favorite sport (basketball) is
> that it is marred by *too much scoring* and the belief that NBA
> players can't/won't play defense?
-------------------------------------------------
The reason they look like they
> can't play defense is because defense is ridiculously hard in the
> NBA. Maybe the real version of ultimate is more like the NBA.
------------------------------------------
>
> Maybe not, but the balance btw scoring and not-scoring is important.
> As is the move of ultimate more toward a true "field sport" in which
> the ball doesn't just stay in one location for 7-10 seconds at a
> time.
>
> Maybe on day we'll live in my dream world where in-play timeouts don't
> exist in any sport...
>
whats an in-play time out?
> Maybe not, but the balance btw scoring and not-scoring is important.
> As is the move of ultimate more toward a true "field sport" in which
> the ball doesn't just stay in one location for 7-10 seconds at a
> time.
>
> Maybe on day we'll live in my dream world where in-play timeouts don't
> exist in any sport...
>
-----------------------------------------
> music on tap: saigon, the greatest story never told
thought on tap: does ANYONE give a fuck what music dusty has on tap
>
> dusty.rhodes
> at gmail.com
Euh
Jun 4, 2012, 9:25:04 PM6/4/12
to
ulticritic wrote on Mon, 04 June 2012 16:36
> On Jun 4, 12:55 pm, Euh <EuhNGro...@hotmail.ca[/email]>
Prez or Nate from Furious would be useless in the AUDL.
Plus, excellent handlers distinguish themselves by their
ability to throw the perfect pass even under pressure and
with a tight defense (Mac Taylor, Andrew Brown, etc). In the
AUDL game that I saw, all players display more or less the
same handling skills.
And like it was predicted, zone defense is not viable.
Spectacular hucks are no longer spectacular when they become
the standard play.
> On Jun 4, 12:55 pm, Euh <EuhNGro...@hotmail.ca[/email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> > Most turnovers in the Sockeye/Furious game
> > (excluding failed
> > hucks) were the result of strong pressure put on the
> > handler
> > and the dump. You barely see that in the AUDL.
>
> good
Nah. A good agressive defense is fun to watch. Guyz like
> >>
> > Most turnovers in the Sockeye/Furious game
> > (excluding failed
> > hucks) were the result of strong pressure put on the
> > handler
> > and the dump. You barely see that in the AUDL.
>
> good
Prez or Nate from Furious would be useless in the AUDL.
Plus, excellent handlers distinguish themselves by their
ability to throw the perfect pass even under pressure and
with a tight defense (Mac Taylor, Andrew Brown, etc). In the
AUDL game that I saw, all players display more or less the
same handling skills.
And like it was predicted, zone defense is not viable.
Spectacular hucks are no longer spectacular when they become
the standard play.
ulticritic
Jun 5, 2012, 8:41:36 AM6/5/12
to
but for ssome reason football isnt viewed as a hippy sport. its a
simple fact that ultimate made efforts to be the quirky non-sport
sport and this reputation has stuck. if the sport would have
conformed from the get go (namely by having refs) it would have been
taken more seriously and been accepted into the mainstream. so no, i
am no the reason it hasent gone mainsyream buy rather its people like
YOU that are against it going mainstream, which are the exact type of
people that have held administrative positions within the upa and
usau, that have kept it from going mainstream.
shit, just look at the seminar usau is holding on this topic at their
us open,,,,,,one of their tag lines is "breaking thru or selling
out"......as if they think they can do one without doing the
other.....and that they are even making an issue of it.......or that
"selling out" is a bad thing.
ulticritic
Jun 5, 2012, 8:56:39 AM6/5/12
to
On Jun 4, 9:25 pm, Euh <EuhNGro...@hotmail.ca> wrote:
> ulticritic wrote on Mon, 04 June 2012 16:36
>
> > On Jun 4, 12:55 pm, Euh <EuhNGro...@hotmail.ca[/email]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Most turnovers in the Sockeye/Furious game
> > > (excluding failed
> > > hucks) were the result of strong pressure put on the
> > > handler
> > > and the dump. You barely see that in the AUDL.
>
> > good
>
> Nah. A good agressive defense is fun to watch.
then the sport should do stuff like making backwards passes illegal
> ulticritic wrote on Mon, 04 June 2012 16:36
>
> > On Jun 4, 12:55 pm, Euh <EuhNGro...@hotmail.ca[/email]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Most turnovers in the Sockeye/Furious game
> > > (excluding failed
> > > hucks) were the result of strong pressure put on the
> > > handler
> > > and the dump. You barely see that in the AUDL.
>
> > good
>
> Nah. A good agressive defense is fun to watch.
or make the field even narrowere
----------------------------------------------
Guyz like
> Prez or Nate from Furious would be useless in the AUDL.
----------------------------------------------
>
> Plus, excellent handlers distinguish themselves by their
> ability to throw the perfect pass even under pressure and
> with a tight defense (Mac Taylor, Andrew Brown, etc). In the
> AUDL game that I saw, all players display more or less the
> same handling skills.
then, again, make even more changes to the game to exentuate those
> Plus, excellent handlers distinguish themselves by their
> ability to throw the perfect pass even under pressure and
> with a tight defense (Mac Taylor, Andrew Brown, etc). In the
> AUDL game that I saw, all players display more or less the
> same handling skills.
throwers skills. dusty said there was too much scoring in the nba but
you dont see them making the hoop smaller or higher.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> And like it was predicted, zone defense is not viable.
bfd......whats so great about zone d's......isnt there a reason they
> And like it was predicted, zone defense is not viable.
outlawed zones in the nba
--------------------------------------
> Spectacular hucks are no longer spectacular when they become
> the standard play.
to you maybe.......as they say in the nfl, chicks dig the long bomb.
> the standard play.
i think you guys are splitting hairs with the difference the wider
firld makes and overstating the downsides while ignoring the positive
aspects.
WIDE FIELD IS A GREAT INNOVATION AUDL........keep it up. and another
thing it helps with is that, when games are played in stadium settings
(even if its at a hs) the fans arent as far away from yhe action.
fuck the purists.....they will always hold sports backk from evolving
and appealing to a younger demographic. its just like mlb refusing to
use IR
>
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
dusty
Jun 5, 2012, 2:37:45 PM6/5/12
to
On Jun 4, 8:02 pm, ulticritic <ulticri...@live.com> wrote:
> On Jun 4, 4:36 pm, dusty <dusty.rho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 1. Wider Field.
> On Jun 4, 4:36 pm, dusty <dusty.rho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 1. Wider Field.
> are you tryin to say that the sport will always evolve?
> --------------------------------------------
Yup. I love the offense. I don't care much for defense at all, but
> --------------------------------------------
in sports as in books and all entertainment, the protagonist needs an
antagonist. A foil. Every Hal needs his Hotspur. Right now, for the
moment (though I don't think anything needs to change other than the
passage of time) the offense is without challenge. It is more like
mobile golf than it is like a field sport.
Oh, I don't have data on takeaways vs. giveaways, but my anecdotal
evidence of playing usau/upa ultimate for a long time and now having
watched a small handful of AUDL games (one live) leads me to believe
that there were waaaay more takeaways in USAU play. Granted, I played
the majority of that time with a one-man D-wrecking crew known only as
"DONO" (as in, sure, that's his last name, but I always thought it
meant what Mike G put so elegantly into words: "You see that guy over
there in the red shorts? DO NOt fucking throw it near him any more!")
so, my perspective might be warped.
> > 2. Longer Field.
> > How many of those players have been practicing their 70yd
> > bombs all these years? Not as many as have been practicing their 50yd
> > bombs.
> pfft, players have constantly thrown from a variety of distances pre
> audl
> ------------------------------------
Admitting your long-retired status leads me to believe that you do not
> audl
> ------------------------------------
know what standard practices for practices/workouts/etc have been for
ultimate players for the last decade+. Yeah, they practice those
throws like (most) practice thumbers: Occasionally. No need to go
out and learn how to groove the throw that results in a turnover
because the field isn't long enough to support the throw. Like
above-- just a matter of time/practice.
> > 4. Hats
> > Sure... make them all have matching hats, but keep some teams at a
> > financial disadvantage so that the players can't wear their own
> > hats...
>
> dont the owners supply those hats
> ---------------------------------
game that I attended, there was time during one of the breaks during
which all of the RI guys had to take off their non-matching hats.
Maybe one(?) guy was allowed to keep his on b/c it happened to match
the team colors. I'm completely speculating as to reason, but I'd bet
it was because RI didn't have the cash or didn't want to invest the
money.
> how about NO HATS.......just headbands
> ---------------------------------------
wear them forward to use the bill should def. be allowed to. The guys
who want to wear them backwards and pretend they're catchers without
masks? Whatever. I did my backwards hat thing for long enough that
I'm pretty sure it is totally innocuous.
> > 7. D's-> Fastbreaks
> > No matter the size of the field or the sport D's lead to
> > fastbreaks. Yes, in usau ultimate. Yes int he NBA. Yes in soccer,
> > yes in lacrosse, yes in... well, not the NFL because we have the
> > accursed downtime btw every play. I love the NFL, but the accursed
> > downtime will always make me angry.
>
> get dtv.....no down time on the redzone.......you can even make your
> own redzone
> -----------------------------------------
that. But it will always make me love soccer, basketball, &c more.
We went down this road previously-- I don't like cutting from one game
to another. I prefer to be totally enveloped in one game than
passively/partially engaged in multiple games. The time between plays
is part of the experience of the players, and it informs me as to how
they experience the game. Shockingly for some, when I'm at sporting
events, I'm not watching the dancing girls or halftime shows-- I'm
wishing they would turn the music down so that I can lean in and hear
more from the huddles. So that I can see the way the players react to
their coaches&teammates during the breaks. I don't know or care if
this is everyone's experience or desire, but I do know it is mine--
the sports that I enjoy provide uninterrupted immersion in the sport
rather than the spectacle.
> > Should I here mention that
> > the most common complaint about my own favorite sport (basketball) is
> > that it is marred by *too much scoring* and the belief that NBA
> > players can't/won't play defense?
>
> i thought it was the flopping and intentional fouling
> -------------------------------------------------
flopping is a painful recent development. That is in the hands of the
refs, not the players. If you are rewarded for flopping (extra
possession) or for intentional fouling (decrease points per possession
due to lack of FT prowess), you, as a player, are incentivized to do
so. In the movement toward "more offense" (reduction of handchecking)
and away from demonstrably physical play (more calls of low-level
fouls, more charging fouls) , aggressive taunting/trash-talking (more
techs for things half of the guys out on the local playground do) and
generally all things "urban" (see: dress code that, if you watch
russell westbrook and others is constantly being made a mockery of:
you can regulate what folks wear, but you can't make 'em look good)
the NBA has swung the pendulum a little too far (if you ask me) in the
direction of Serie A.
So, the problem is... the refs. The way the refs call the game. If
you play a self-reffed game, you'll have some shenanigans (I forgot
the score, I'm gonna start calling ticky-tack fouls, &c), but not a
soul on that court is gonna step in front of you on a drive the rim
and square up to take a damn charge. You'll get laughed out of the
gym or off of the blacktop.
I want the Jordan Rules back.
Really, the complaint most often heard about the NBA is "I only have
to watch the last 5 minutes". Why? because none of the points before
that matter-- anyone can win in the end. The style and story of how
all of those points are scored is the what pulls me in. Just like in
soccer, the way the spaces on the field change due to plays&players
over the course of the match, just like in the NFL the way the
defenses and offense change. So... I don't really get it, but
considering I expound on how much I love the NBA to nearly every
sportsfan I speak with... I hear the complaint very often.
> > Maybe on day we'll live in my dream world where in-play timeouts don't
> > exist in any sport...
>
> whats an in-play time out?
> -----------------------------------------
up, any timeout before the next pull is an in-play timeout. I have no
compelling reason to support these timeouts. Nor any timeouts in any
sport that I can think of. The least ultimate could do is eliminate
in-play timeouts and restrict them to before the pull. Fight that
point out and earn it or let the other team earn it.
> thought on tap: does ANYONE give a fuck what music dusty has on tap
music on tap: curren$y, the stoned immaculate
dusty.rhodes
at gmail.com
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