How not to cut someone (en masse)
dan_...@yahoo.com
"you are cut" email, sent to a distribution list including everybody
who attended one or both of two open practices of a semi-competitive
co-ed team in the NYC area.
I think a general critique may be in order. Aside from not emailing
everyone you cut all at once (maybe they were trying to generate a
sense of community?), I'm sure we can identify a number of additional
faux pas. Please discuss.
Best,
Dan
Puppet Tryouts,
Thanks for coming out for Puppet Regime this year. Unfortunately, we
don't believe you would be a great fit for Puppet this year. We saw
most of you at practice - if you didn't get the chance to try out, but
think you could really make a difference, feel free to reply to this
email with more info about yourself and an appeal. We realize that
some of you were not able to attend tryouts because you were involved
in other tryouts b/c the academic year is still wrapping up. That's
fine - email us at a later date - we'll be taking applications on a
case-by-case basis.
We do still believe that you are wonderful people and should be
playing ultimate with someone in NYC. Please take this opportunity to
play great ultimate and hopefully we'll see you around at open
tryouts, next year. Here are a few NYC area teams that you might
consider playing for (all of them filled with great players and
people):
Crafty - Coed - NYC Area
Contact: craf...@gmail.com
7express - Coed - NYC Area
Contact: If any one knows, please reply w/ info.
Blu - Coed - Connecticut
Contact: Nick Judson, nick...@aol.com
Ambush - Womens - NYC Area
Contact: Julie Sussman, jsus...@gmail.com
New Men's Team - NYC Area
Contact: fat...@gmail.com
Thanks,
Tim
thefan
great people. if you have a problem with this (being cut) please
contact us and we will re examine your situation. there are several
area teams that need great people and good players and this is how you
can get in touch with them so that you can have more opportunities to
club ultimate in the area.
i don't get it. it's great.
i may copy it and send it to the people i cut from my team.
minus the whole "other area teams" part.
cause it's better than the one i had written up the other day.
Dear Tryouters. we have made our cuts and you are out. you either
have no mind for the game, or are severly lacking in one or more of
the following areas:
speed, height, throwing ability, positioning, fitness, hang out
ability.
Better luck next year.
and cause there's only one team in these here parts. chumps that
don't make it is just plum out of luck.
The Fan
rk
It was much better that way.
For example:
"these guys over here are the Slickers....the rest of you....can fuck
off"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.disc/msg/41672a8307ca96c6
Mike Gerics
> "these guys over here are the Slickers....the rest of you....can fuck
> off"
---yeah....that was about the worst way to not make a team....but a great
way to begin another!
kicktot...@gmail.com
> The following email came across my computer recently. It is a generic
> "you are cut" email, sent to a distribution list including everybody
> who attended one or both of two open practices of a semi-competitive
> co-ed team in the NYC area.
>
> I think a general critique may be in order. Aside from not emailing
> everyone you cut all at once (maybe they were trying to generate a
> sense of community?), I'm sure we can identify a number of additional
> faux pas. Please discuss.
>
> Best,
> Dan
I disagree... a critique is not in order at all.
When you're looking for new talent, the important issue should not be
focused on how to nicely tell people they aren't good enough to play
on the team. People are busy... and they are trying to create a
competitive team that can win, not send out a ton of personalized
emails to make you feel better about sucking.
Regardless, you were cut, get over it. If you have a problem with the
means in which it took place, contact the Puppet people.. there's no
reason to try to publicize this on rsd as some great injustice (it's
not).
benlw...@gmail.com
> When you're looking for new talent, the important issue should not be
> focused on how to nicely tell people they aren't good enough to play
> on the team. People are busy... and they are trying to create a
> competitive team that can win, not send out a ton of personalized
> emails to make you feel better about sucking.
I've been on all four sides of this issue many times (in many sports).
Here is what I think:
1) As Kick points out...the purpose of tryouts is to make the team
better. The team really doesn't owe people anything, and often has
very little incentive to be civil about it.
2) Doing tryouts well, and being civil/encouraging, is difficult.
3) The people running a tryout are often NOT experienced at it, and
are doing their best with no guidance. Just because they are in charge
does not mean that they understand their role well, or that we can
expect them to be sensitive in a touchy situation.
4) If the team is going to be around for more than one year, there ARE
significant benefits to be taken from running tryouts well. To that
end, here is how I think the 'perfect' tryout is run...IF and ONLY IF
there is sufficient time/effort/resources for the team to do this. It
is difficult, and it takes time and energy...many teams do not have
that to spare.
A solid tryout process...
...is open to new people, or at least does not have major barriers
like "you have to know someone".
...teaches the offense/defense they are playing in BEFORE being
assessed in game situations.
...prioritizes game performance over drills/fitness/measureables.
...allows players to try out for their strengths, not necessarily the
teams weaknesses.
...makes clear WHO will be running the tryout and making decisions.
...gives tryouts the decision of how they want to be informed (email/
in-person/phone).
...informs unsuccessful tryouts personally and confidentially before
releasing information publicly.
...provides constructive criticism if requested (thoughtful and
personal, usually in written form).
...spreads the word about other playing options to those that do not
make the team.
That is a long list. If you haven't been involved in a ton of tryouts,
and haven't had structured guidance on how to run a tryout...you will
undoubtedly screw some of this up. Tryouts should not expect the any
team's process to be perfect.
The potential benefits for the team (if the tryouts are run correctly)
include motivating players to improve, motivating team members to be
in shape and ready for tryouts, fostering team spirit between teams in
the same city, and increasing a fan base. For some teams, these are
worth the large amount of effort that it takes to run tryouts well.
For others, these are not.
Having run a bunch of tryouts...and having put a lot of effort into
making those processes as solid as possible...I can't tell you how
many times I have felt victimized by people's responses. It is a blow
to the ego to not make a team, and most people respond well, and
understandably. Some lash out, and that hurts...I've had people I was
on good terms with refuse to talk to me for, essentially, years after
a cut. No process will prevent that...
...but if one of my tryout emails, no matter how flawed or perfect,
made it to RSD for a public critique...I can't imagine anything worse.
Dan_KL: your public posting of this issue was, in my opinion,
completely unfair. Puppet Regime does not seem like they have a
perfect process...but if that is the worst cut you ever received, you
should consider yourself damn lucky. It looks like they put some
thought into trying to be civil and honest.
blw
jse...@gmail.com
live with ourselves if the most negative response to our cut email
(see above) comes from a person who was never on our mailng list,
never came to a tryout and never actually got cut.
Dan - if you think you've got it in you to play some semi-competitive
disc, drop me a line about coming to tryouts on Sunday. We'd be glad
to give you a look...
-Justin
Puppet Regime
david
your blog, i haven't seen him play much but from what i've seen, i
don't think he's a blog team player, locker room cancer type seems to
me. i don't know how to make it less public for dankl... but seems
like he would like to keep it a bit more private so if you can find it
in yourself, keep it hush-hush. to you dankl, i say there are lots of
other blogs out there, you could probably start your own, seems like
ben's given out some pretty good tips, irregardless, don't give up,
you've really got something special.
ultimate7
OP was wrong in publicly posting this. It was a form email and the
post generated good response and allowed others to see what some teams
are doing and how it could possibly be improved. I see nothing wrong
with PR en masse cut email, I don't know how personalized you can make
cuts from 1 or 2 days of tryouts outside of saying something like "you
just weren't good enough for us", obviously it could be a bit better,
but I see nothing terrible about it.
art...@yahoo.com
> In the old days captains made cuts in person rather than via email.
> It was much better that way.
Why not just notify the people who made the cut? As long as you tell
everybody when the cuts will be made.
faddy
>
> 7express - Coed - NYC Area
> Contact: If any one knows, please reply w/ info.
>
> Blu - Coed - Connecticut
>
> Ambush - Womens - NYC Area
>
> New Men's Team - NYC Area
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
suck it up and perhaps get better, sissy.
Hotpants
>
> 7express - Coed - NYC Area
> Contact: If any one knows, please reply w/ info.
>
> Blu - Coed - Connecticut
>
> Ambush - Womens - NYC Area
>
> New Men's Team - NYC Area
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
It was because of the bullshit weather!
James
there's no way to do that without hurting some feel-bads. Another
time I cut somebody over coffee at Starbucks and they cried too. At
this point it's a trend, and I'll be damned if I'm going to jinx
myself by writing a nice thoughtful email.. you know like the one you
got.
I thought New Yorkers were tough. Anything less than being beaned in
the head with a battery labeled "You're Cut!" is getting off easy.
Consider that a warning if you ever try out for a team I captain.
> Contact: craft...@gmail.com
>
> 7express - Coed - NYC Area
> Contact: If any one knows, please reply w/ info.
>
> Blu - Coed - Connecticut
> Contact: Nick Judson, nick1m...@aol.com
>
> Ambush - Womens - NYC Area
> Contact: Julie Sussman, jsuss...@gmail.com
>
> New Men's Team - NYC Area
> Contact: fats...@gmail.com
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
Feetch
Puppet as an alternative when they make their cuts. I think that'd be
funny.
Garrett Dyer
<ulti...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I really don't think the
>OP was wrong in publicly posting this.
It it was a "here's what one team did...what do you guys think about
it?" post, then ok. But it was a "here's a terribly wrong way of
making cuts, let's let them know how foolish their e-mail was" post,
and that is just bullshit. Ben explained a great way of running
tryouts, but hardly anyone really ever comes close to getting it
"great" - at any level of any sport - so why should the expectations
of ultimate frisbee captains be so high?
Garrett Dyer
<Shoot.t...@the.net> wrote:
>It it was a "here's what one team did...what do you guys think about
>it?" post, then ok.
That should read "IF it was..."
(I'm old...eyesight's failing)
scoop
Here's what they should have done.
"Little Timmy has been a perfect poster child. We use him to show our
players what not to be and do. He has no knees. He forgets the force.
His hangdawg look when he biffs easy catches is heartbreaking. His
failure to play defense after those drops is infuriating. He often
forgets to bring his depends to tournaments, so we have to chain him
to his hotel room bed so he doesn't embarrass us at the parties.
Timmy recently died.
We think all of you would be perfect in filling the negative role
model job for our team. First to reply gets the job.
jacob...@gmail.com
by people's responses. It is a blow to the ego to not make a team, and
most people respond well, and understandably. Some lash out, and that
hurts...I've had people I was on good terms with refuse to talk to me
for, essentially, years after a cut."
Ben, I assume you are talking about me here. Allow me to set the
record straight. I have refused to talk to you not because you cut me,
but for the way that you cut me. You told me that I had made the "A
team," but was the only player good enough at that point to be on the
A team. You told me the times and locations of future A team
practices, all of which I showed up to, ready to run, regardless of
weather conditions, or if the location happened to be in a supermarket
parking lot or the middle of a busy intersection. You told me that as
the season progressed, other team members would graduate from the "B
team" to the "A team," so I not only anticipated eventually having
some company at practice, but I also traveled to tournaments to "help
scout" and to encourage guys like Sammy CK and Jeremy Cram that
someday they would make the "A team." When your "B team" ended up
winning Nationals, I cheered as loudly as anyone. I thought: "Damn!
Wait until people see what the A team can do." Then, as it slowly
dawned on me that I had been the victim of a cruel hoax, I cursed your
name and vowed never to speak to you again. And now you say that YOU
feel "victimized?"
John....@gmail.com
ohiost...@gmail.com
below:
Dear Mr. (captain's name),
Thank you for your (email/coversation) on (Date of being cut). After
careful consideration I regret to inform you that I am unable to
accept your refusal to offer me
a spot on your team.
This year I have been particularly fortunate in being cut from an
unusually large number of teams in the (my city or state) area. With
such a varied and promising array of teams, it is impossible for me to
accept all refusals.
Despite (the Team's Name that cut me)'s outstanding qualifications and
previous experience in cutting players, I find that your rejection
does not meet my needs at this time. Therefore I will initiate
participation on your team immediately on (first closed practice
date). I look forward to seeing you then and believe this upcoming
year will be a great one as we strive to win (sectionals/regionals/
nationals).
Sincerely,
Brent (but you may want to put your name there instead...)
bettyflygirl
Welcome to Dumpsville. Population: you.
Sincerely,
Dear Mr. (captain's name)