college nationals '08
degnan...@gmail.com
cullen
understand the desire to partner with CSTV but how many other state
schools out there are not going to be able to get out there? Sure
expanding the community is a big part of the UPA, but disallowing the
people who are already a part of the community to participate for the
possibility of gaining some new media interest seems to go against the
wishes of all the people paying membership dues.
By the way, "Feedback was gathered from UPA staff, UPA Board members,
and teams that had attended the 2007 UPA College Championships." What
teams are they talking about?
On Nov 30, 5:50 pm, degnanNOS...@gmail.com wrote:
> Boulder.http://upa.org/
>
> discussion --http://dopacetic.blogspot.com/
>
> degs
Theodore Hex
> Wonderful, well Wisconsin's last final exam date is the 17th. I
> understand the desire to partner with CSTV but how many other state
> schools out there are not going to be able to get out there?
Why are we just concerned in state schools? Not interested in what
Stanford or CUT has to say?
Anyway, the following school's final exams do not conflict: UCSB,
Florida, Colorado, Oregon, Carleton, Stanford.
Some teams give up graduation, finals, and all kinds of other things
every year. Pick a weekend in May. Some school is going to get the
short end of the stick.
bww
on the other hand, its one way to test dedication.
gfar...@uoregon.edu
This is why there contingency plans are established when conflicts
arise. Colleges are not oblivious to the discrepancies in athletic
competition dates and academic testing dates, and are willing to make
concessions. This is why football and basketball athletes on varsity
teams are allowed to miss finals to travel to play games, only to make
up the exam either before or after there travel schedule. You can't
have a double standard for two separate groups of students who engage
in athletic competition. I'm not an expert on Wisconsin-Madison's
policies and procedures regarding applications of this sort, but it
seems universal that you can't have varsity athletes be allowed to
reschedule testing and not recognized club sport athletes. That would
be a violation of students' rights.
Grant
josh.mc...@gmail.com
Students' rights?
I am sure that the equal treatment of varsity and club sports athletes
is not a universally recognized concept. In speaking from personal
experience, it can be a quite a challenge dealing with a school
administration in attempting to reschedule final exams for ultimate
players participating in the club sports program when they conflict
with college nationals, whereas varsity athletes are granted more
leniency in rescheduling.
In any event, certainly every weekend in May has some type of conflict
for a number of schools that compete in the UPA series. I'm pretty
sure in the northeast at least, Brown (and Williams?) has had
graduation on Memorial Day weekend in the past (and if Brown wasn't
competing on Sunday, I think that the seniors would fly home Saturday
night for commencement the next day). Other schools still have final
exams taking place during the Memorial Day weekend -- though my guess
is that those schools are fewer and far between.
Josh McCarthy
Theodore Hex
> not memorial weekend. nobody conflicts with a national holiday.
Wrong -- Brown graduates Memorial Day. Every year.
gfar...@uoregon.edu
Without diverting too much from the original topic in this thread, I'm
only making the assertion that a rescheduling of Nationals shouldn't
warrant the withdrawal of several prominent teams. Obviously there
are differences in club and varsity athletics as well as differences
from school to school on this issue, but for the sake of cullen's
argument, the depressing nature of his comments shouldn't be a cause
for concern that qualifying teams like Wisconsin won't show up come
May... unless carnival monkeys kidnap the team.
To get back to the original topic, I think Boulder is a fantastic
choice for Nationals this upcoming year because of the likelihood of a
world class operation from the UPA coinciding with the inclusion of
ultimate in CSTV's Collegiate Nationals package.
Grant
Adam Tarr
> understand the desire to partner with CSTV but how many other state
> schools out there are not going to be able to get out there?
Please. Student-athletes deal with conflicts like this all the time.
Every school that qualifies will attend.
Exam schedules are posted at the beginning of the semester. If you
have a Friday or Saturday exam, talk to your professor after the first
class in January. Tell them your conflict, and offer to do whatever
they want (take it early, take it late, do a project in stead, et
cetera) to work around the conflict. Most professors are pretty
understanding about it. If not, take it a different semester.
michael...@yale.edu
with athletes changing up their finals schedules and some schools are
not. UCSD didn't give 2 shits about athletics and would fail you if
you missed a final. But we finished in mid june so it really didn't
matter. Yale babies the crap out of their students and they can miss
anything for any reason.
What concerns me is the status of Rob and Ultivillage at nationals
now. I dunno about you guys but I think CSTV coverage sucks ass.
That guy who does the commentating does everything from disc to
women's dirt biking to lax. I don't want some corporate poster boy
talking about my sport, it is insulting. I think kyle is a good side
man in the booth but I would rather see ben and kyle or some other
better pairing.
Ok thats not really the main problem. No one can watch CSTV. i mean
there are some cable networks out there that have it and maybe you
catch ultimate at like 4am on a tuesday but come on, you poll any
college ultimate player, where do they watch most of their ultimate
footage? It's gotta be ultivillage. I'd like to think I have a
pretty good grasp of the ultimate video footage available, so I think
my opinion matters. If you don't agree then fine, enjoy your CSTV,
but for me, ultivillage is the cream of the crop. Rob cranks his
stuff out so damn fast it is insane. It is everything an ultimate
player wants. Who gives a shit about CSTV? I mean more exposure?
more credibility? you make our sport sound so pussy. If your sport
is awesome (which ours is) you don't have to go around telling people
how great it is or little brother yourself into Div III sporting
events or whatever. You play your game and you play it the best you
can. If folks like it they like, if not, fuck em. Rob has worked so
hard and so diligently and it is a shame that the people that really
like his stuff (the ultimate players and fans out there) don't get to
decide this course of action. I bitched about this on my blog awhile
back (http://matchdiesel.blogspot.com/2007/08/cstv-vs-
ultivillage.html) and I really just wish the UPA would help Rob out
more. I mean the guy sponsors so many tournaments and he brings
ultimate to us in a fashion that isn't patronizing. His contribution
to the game is unparalleled and to have college ultimate walk down the
CSTV path is just sad. I hope you guys all have a copy of Disc 2 and
maybe some UvTv footage from last year cuz if this is the way things
go, you're never gonna see college nationals footage again. You won't
ever be able to own it, to download it, to show it off. You are stuck
with that crap ass CSTV windows media bullshit that always snags, poor
resolution and lame ass commentary. How many people have seen or know
about the epic Colorado/Stanford double game point pool play game from
nationals in 2006? Or the Stanford/Oregon upset in quarters that
year? Or the semi finals game between UCSD and Colorado in 2005? you
know why you don't? Because Rob couldn't film it. He didn't even
bother coming to nationals in 2006 because he couldn't film anything.
Get used to it. Maybe some folks don't care. But I do. I was even
there, I saw Georgia upset Colorado in Quarters in 2006, I saw Brown
win nationals in 2005, but most people weren't there and most folks
will never get to see it, if only on a TV. CSTV has been the UPA's
broadcasting partner for the last 6 years? Where is the Stanford 2002
nationals footage? I would give my right eye to see that team play.
What about the Oregon/CUT semi finals game from 2003? I have 12
ultivillage videos from college nationals from just this past year,
what is CSTV's giving out?
Sorry, I am just ranting. I like Rob's stuff a lot. A lot of what I
have been able to write about on my blog is because Rob has brought
tournaments to my computer that I otherwise would never have been able
to see. We love you Rob.
just my thoughts.
schmidtacular
ultimate players want. Aside from a half-ass survey they put out every
year to apparently garner the opinions and ideas of the membership at
large, there really isn't much communication to the membership of what
directions they are considering taking with our sport. We tend to find
out what they are doing after they make the decisions and it's too
late to change their mind. Does this make sense?
Why does the UPA sell us out to a 2-bit cable channel that no-one gets
and is just about as lame as Comcast local. I could see them selling
out to ESPN (even 'The Ocho") but CSTV? Rob could do a better job with
1 camera and a Wiggins than CSTV can do with how ever many they have
and their lame-ass commentator.
Aside from that, decisions ranging from numbers on shorts, locations
of various regional tournaments, and various other opportunities to
represent the wishes of their constituents have been misguided and
unfocused. I'm pretty sure it isnt the fault of the individuals
representing us; the problem lies in the structure of the governing
body itself. I dont know how we would be able to change the structure
of the UPA, I think once Cultimate starts holding its own championship
series they'll get the hint and start thinking about the quality of
their decisions.
kudos on Boulder though---great locale.
Manzell
May 17th is apparently the end of Finals "Week". How many people have
had finals on friday? I've been in school for many years at many
places, and never had a friday final.
- MRB
David Belsheim
increasing membership. Any serious ultimate player who has seen both
CSTV and UV would agree that UV has better coverage. But UV can't
provide the advertising and increased viewership that CSTV can. So we
are stuck with mediocre coverage unless the UPA can convince CSTV to
somehow:
- Increase the amount of gametime filmed and distributed
- Increase the knowledge of commentators and cameramen
- Focus more on the games (ie less time on the origins of team names,
cheers, splashing the CSTV logo all over the place, etc)
- Improve editing. American football takes advantages of play
stoppages all the time (instant replays, short interviews, commercials
etc.) There is no reason to include all the standing about that
occurs in ultimate if you have only so much time to show the game.
I'd have to say that right now, I don't believe CSTV's coverage is
that effective at improving membership because the finished product
represents our sport so poorly. I'm grateful that they try, but when
they demand exclusive coverage and the product significantly worse
then UltiVillage, I have to say that we deserve better. My hope is
that because this is a big event for CSTV, they will try to improve
their coverage. Or perhaps they will be receptive to new ideas.
-db
degnan...@gmail.com
> Who gives a shit about CSTV? I mean more exposure?
> more credibility? you make our sport sound so pussy.
You're right, more credibility and exposure are such pussy pursuits.
Nascar and the NFL must be full of full-fledged pussies.
> He didn't even
> bother coming to nationals in 2006 because he couldn't film anything.
> Get used to it. Maybe some folks don't care. But I do. I was even
> there, I saw Georgia upset Colorado in Quarters in 2006, I saw Brown
> win nationals in 2005, but most people weren't there and most folks
> will never get to see it, if only on a TV. CSTV has been the UPA's
> broadcasting partner for the last 6 years? Where is the Stanford 2002
> nationals footage? I would give my right eye to see that team play.
> What about the Oregon/CUT semi finals game from 2003? I have 12
> ultivillage videos from college nationals from just this past year,
> what is CSTV's giving out?
Do your homework Match.
- Rob WAS at college nationals last year. He taped until finals and
made it available online & for purchase.
- CSTV didn't cover nationals in '02. 2008 is the sixth straight year,
2003 was the first.
- The UPA has repeatedly offered CSTV DVD's for sale, including the
one with the Ego/CUT '03 semi.
Your criticisms of the production values of the CSTV broadcasts have
some merit however.
ric...@gmail.com
last college nationals would be the 2007 nationals not the 06 where
rob was apparently absent
joe
Is it still available? If so, where can you buy the DVD with that
semi?
lucill...@gmail.com
> On Nov 30, 11:21 pm, cullen <stalking...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Wonderful, well Wisconsin's last final exam date is the 17th. I
> > understand the desire to partner with CSTV but how many other state
> > schools out there are not going to be able to get out there? Sure
> > expanding the community is a big part of the UPA, but disallowing the
> > people who are already a part of the community to participate for the
> > possibility of gaining some new media interest seems to go against the
> > wishes of all the people paying membership dues.
>
> > By the way, "Feedback was gathered from UPA staff, UPA Board members,
> > and teams that had attended the 2007 UPA College Championships." What
> > teams are they talking about?
the way to Saturday. Every year.
michael...@yale.edu
I also wasn't exactly sure where the 6th year came into affect so '02
stanford, '03 CUT/Oregon, I figured I would get it right with one of
them.
I suppose what really bugs me is that I have tried to look up CSTV
footage before. I have been really interested in seeing the
performance of Stanford in each of their 4 straight semis performances
and I can't find it. Good luck, if you can find it, let me know, I
want to see it.
Its funny that you say do your HW, that is exactly what I am trying to
do. I love researching ultimate. Every aspect of the game, weird
shit that no one cares about but I do. I want to be able to find
video footage of every game I am interested in and if CSTV gets
control, I won't be able to do that. Go find me Cal/Brown semis when
Zipp was a Junior and Watson was a 1st year grad student. Good luck.
maybe its a question of interface. CSTV offers DVDs, cable or
whatever, but Rob packages his footage SO well and it is so easy for
me to find exactly what I want. Truth be told, i don't care about
CSTV, it is a non entity. i don't know why the UPA cares.
I suppose I am the extreme. I want every tournament game at my
fingertips not unlike the way ESPN broadcasts NCAA football or
whatever. I just don't think CSTV can do that or even cares to. What
makes matters worse is that we don't have to depend on CSTV, we have
an alternative, a better alternative and we aren't going with it. I
know a lot of frisbee players and I would be hard pressed to find 1
that wants CSTV footage over ultivillage.
No animosity, I just want the game packaged the best way possible.
The one thing that sucks about college nationals is that the finals
footage is bogus. One reason why club is better.
Just my thoughts
doug...@hotmail.com
> - The UPA has repeatedly offered CSTV DVD's for sale, including the
> one with the Ego/CUT '03 semi.
The CSTV DVDs I got were garbage. Instead of including commercials,
there is just black time. Black screen for 30 seconds. That is
unforgivable. Completely unprofessional. I am insulted that CSTV
would even consider selling such a raw product without a huge
disclaimer accompanying it. They try to disguise it with their
professional-looking DVD labels, but it would really be more
appropriate if the disc were labeled in crayon.
The complaints about CSTV being difficult to get are also valid. I
would strongly prefer a UPA-sponsored effort to get Nationals footage
aired on public access channels across the country. This would at
least increase the potential number of viewers by an order of
magnitude. Also, is CSTV still getting paid by the UPA for coverage
of Nationals, or has it balanced out? In my opinion, the sooner we
can sever ties to CSTV, the better. But should the relationship
continue, please feel free to e-mail me for an assessment of whether
the CSTV DVD is total crap, in case UPA quality-control standards
don't catch it.
I'm actually pleased with the efforts the UPA is putting in to improve
exposure of ultimate. I just think this was a dry well and it's time
to move on.
Stephen...@gmail.com
I just watched the entire Brown/Cal semi of which you speak on
youtube. Someone posted the CSTV thing; i don't know the legality of
that though.
This is not to say that I dont agree with you. Fuck CSTV, go Rob. Just
thought you might wanna see it.
Just search for "brown cal semi"
pumba
squid 71
DoctaJones
> there is just black time. Black screen for 30 seconds. That is
> unforgivable. Completely unprofessional. I am insulted that CSTV
> would even consider selling such a raw product without a huge
> disclaimer accompanying it.
This seems a bit extreme to me. I too own the CSTV package; the only
year in which there were long blackouts for commercial breaks was 2003
- the '04 and '05 DVDs corrected this problem. Hardly "completely
unprofessional", considering what I found to be more than decent video
quality and camera work. Not perfect by any means, but when you pay
$25 for 5 DVDs that cover Open and Women's semis and finals for
2003-05, your criticisms seem somewhat undeserved. And by the way, for
anyone that thinks this coverage is so rare and hard to find, you
should check out the "Store" link on upa.org - they may not be
plastering ads for this DVD set on billboards all across America, but
the UPA Store is far from out of reach of Ultimate enthusiasts.
That being said, I am also a long-time UVTV subscriber and UltiVillage
patron. What Rob has done for ultimate is without compare, and I think
he deserves all of our support. I would favor a UPA split from CSTV in
favor of granting filming rights to Rob, but that may not be possible,
at least for the time being. If this is the case, it seems that
working with CSTV to improve Ultimate coverage (commentary, releases
of DVDs, airtime on the CSTV network, etc.) would be in the best
interest of the sport. Contrary to what some people on this board seem
to think, CSTV coverage is not the end of Ultimate, but indignant
ranting is no way to improve it.
Leonardo
> Boulder.http://upa.org/
>
> discussion --http://dopacetic.blogspot.com/
>
> degs
aside from college attendance issues, can anyone (maybe someone on the
Board?) tell us if CSTV has thoughts towards airing Nationals live?
presumably not for 2008, but is it something CSTV may be considering
if we hit certain targets in viewership?
t
mcandrew...@gmail.com
> sure in the northeast at least, Brown (and Williams?) has had
> graduation on Memorial Day weekend in the past (and if Brown wasn't
> competing on Sunday, I think that the seniors would fly home Saturday
> night for commencement the next day).
Williams' graduation is June 1st, but our finals are the 14th - 19th.
What exactly was the reasoning behind the choice of date? It seems
like the first consideration for the choice of date should be
convenience for the college teams going to college nationals, rather
than anything else. And while some colleges have graduation during
Memorial Day (only Brown U. as far as I can tell from this
discussion), final exams are a little bit more important than wearing
a dumb gown. The UPA should take the availability of the majority of
college teams into consideration over sponsorship. Looking at the
academic calendars for the open teams from last year's nationals, if
those same 16 teams made nationals again, five would have finals
during this year's natties, including the returning national
champions.
I just think that the UPA needs to think about who it's putting on
these events for, and who they're willing to inconvenience (and what
they're willing to sacrifice) in order to achieve these goals. The
people watching CSTV (at 4am on a Tuesday) aren't seeing the best
games possible if the Hodags aren't playing. The truth is, CSTV
doesn't reach the people that need to be educated about ultimate
(drunk frat guys already know what ultimate is). And I know that I've
only been to nationals once (as a super-fan for WUFO), but thanks for
letting me rant.
~Tall
Williams La Wufa #30
PS: As for rescheduling ultimate players' exams, I can see the
conversation right now:
ultimate player: "Hi Professor, um, I need to reschedule my final
because I'm going to be playing at ultimate frisbee nationals in
boulder, colorado that day."
prof: "Ulti-what?"
player: "Frisbee, sir. Ultimate frisbee. It's a sport."
prof: "OH! Is that the one you play with the dogs?"
player: "Um, no. There's teams that play against each other and
actually, you could go to upa.org and learn about it."
prof: "Yeah, that's gonna happen. I can't let you take the test at a
different date because then I'd have to change it for everyone that
needs to be in their common room at the time of the test to watch
Spongebob Squarepants. You'll take the test when it's scheduled. And
have fun playing with your frisbee."
Mimmo
had to allow students to make up tests/be excused from class and
whatnot if we only had a letter from our faculty sponsor...
Bulb
>
> Wrong -- Brown graduates Memorial Day. Every year.
Delaware graduates the Saturday before Memorial Day every year...
except this year, for some screwy reason... graduation is Saturday the
31st... and I think the University plans to have finals on Memorial
Day (seems that way from the school website). Shouldn't that be
illegal? But regardless, finals start Friday the 23rd, so Delaware
either graduates OR has finals Memorial Day weekend every year.
Bulb
make giant posters with CSTV behind the no-smoking symbol (does that
symbol have a name?). Or a top team could make that their jersey
logo. I think the ultimate (pardon the pun) would be if some people
drew that symbol on the championship field at like 6am Sunday morning.
These ideas might be terrible, I'm just thinking out loud.
Bulb
doug...@hotmail.com
> > The CSTV DVDs I got were garbage. Instead of including commercials,
> > there is just black time. Black screen for 30 seconds. That is
> > unforgivable. Completely unprofessional. I am insulted that CSTV
> > would even consider selling such a raw product without a huge
> > disclaimer accompanying it.
>
> This seems a bit extreme to me. I too own the CSTV package; the only
> year in which there were long blackouts for commercial breaks was 2003
> - the '04 and '05 DVDs corrected this problem. Hardly "completely
> unprofessional", considering what I found to be more than decent video
> quality and camera work. Not perfect by any means, but when you pay
> $25 for 5 DVDs that cover Open and Women's semis and finals for
> 2003-05, your criticisms seem somewhat undeserved.
In no way is it professional to release and sell such an unfinished
product. We're talking about CSTV here, a CBS Company. The standards
for professionalism are much higher than what you can do in your
basement. Imagine if the six DVDs from Season One of Veronica Mars
DVDs had 30 seconds of black time for every commercial. Would you
say, "well, when you pay $15 for 6 DVDs that cover a full school year
at Neptune High, criticisms for lack of professionalism seem somewhat
undeserved"? I don't think so. That's outrageous.
I also don't see the $25 for 2003-2005 option. The Wright Life has
2004-2005 for $24.99 alone. In any case, mine cost more than that and
I don't see how you can even question my justification for being as
dissatisfied as I am (and therefore holding CSTV accountable).
Contrary to what you might think I think, "DoctaJones," I don't think
CSTV coverage is the end of Ultimate. I just think they have done a
crappy job and have shown very little indication of good faith
effort. So it does not make sense to me for the UPA to restrict
competition on Nationals filming, simply so that we can reap the oh-so-
meager rewards of CSTV coverage. And I think that it would be better
for the sport to enter into a less restrictive filming agreement and
air the semis and finals on public access television across the
country. But my horse may not be quite as high as yours, so I guess
that makes my suggestion mere "indignant ranting."
DoctaJones
> product. We're talking about CSTV here, a CBS Company. The standards
> for professionalism are much higher than what you can do in your
> basement. Imagine if the six DVDs from Season One of Veronica Mars
> DVDs had 30 seconds of black time for every commercial. Would you
> say, "well, when you pay $15 for 6 DVDs that cover a full school year
> at Neptune High, criticisms for lack of professionalism seem somewhat
> undeserved"? I don't think so. That's outrageous.
It's hard to believe that all this criticism and dissatisfaction stems
from a few 20 second blackouts on a single DVD. Do your DVDs from 2004
and 2005 have these blackouts? The ones that I ordered from upa.org
(the one that's advertised as 2004-2005 but that actually includes
2003 as well) don't. I won't argue that the CSTV commentator is an
embarrassment (not Kyle Weisbrod and Ben Wiggins, but the other guy),
but do you have any complaints about anything aside from that and the
blackouts?
> Contrary to what you might think I think, "DoctaJones," I don't think
> CSTV coverage is the end of Ultimate. I just think they have done a
> crappy job and have shown very little indication of good faith
> effort.
Can I ask what would constitute a good faith effort then? Like you,
I'm not completely satisfied with CSTV, but they're not doing a
horrible job. They could certainly air their coverage sooner (or even
live if you really want to shoot for the stars) and cut out the
clueless generic commentator, but free streaming video on their
website isn't half bad. I think the real blame lies with the UPA for
entering into an agreement with a network that has such limited
distribution and isn't willing to dedicate more of its already limited
resources to Ultimate coverage.
> So it does not make sense to me for the UPA to restrict
> competition on Nationals filming, simply so that we can reap the oh-so-
> meager rewards of CSTV coverage. And I think that it would be better
> for the sport to enter into a less restrictive filming agreement and
> air the semis and finals on public access television across the
> country. But my horse may not be quite as high as yours, so I guess
> that makes my suggestion mere "indignant ranting."
I agree with you here, and I apologize for any confusion about what
"indignant ranting" was referring to - that was meant for your DVD
related comments, not your criticism of CSTV being difficult to get.
One important point point though, public access channels are only
offered by cable companies because of legal requirements; satellite
providers are under no such obligation, and don't provide public
access.
Maybe allowing Rob to film the finals and sell the footage is the best
option the UPA has (an established relationship with a subsidiary of a
major TV network could come in handy when Ultimate does generate
enough revenue to merit real national coverage though). An online poll
of UPA members' opinions seems like it could be helpful. Interestingly
though, while not a large advantage, CSTV *does* offer finals footage
for free, while if it were offered only through Ultivillage,
enthusiasts would have to pay to see it (which I would willingly do).
I guess my point is that while there may be better options out there,
CSTV has provided all the coverage that can be expected from a minor
TV network that stands to gain very little from doing so.
chic...@excite.com
> conversation right now:
>
> ultimate player: "Hi Professor, um, I need to reschedule my final
> because I'm going to be playing at ultimate frisbee nationals in
> boulder, colorado that day."
> prof: "Ulti-what?"
> player: "Frisbee, sir. Ultimate frisbee. It's a sport."
> prof: "OH! Is that the one you play with the dogs?"
> player: "Um, no. There's teams that play against each other and
> actually, you could go to upa.org and learn about it."
> prof: "Yeah, that's gonna happen. I can't let you take the test at a
> different date because then I'd have to change it for everyone that
> needs to be in their common room at the time of the test to watch
> Spongebob Squarepants. You'll take the test when it's scheduled. And
> have fun playing with your frisbee."
I couldn't agree more. It's a huge mistake to think that it would be
"expected" for professors to allow students to miss an exam for UPA
nationals. The most dispressing thing is that players will now be
forced to make a choice between their teams and their family. Missing
a final exam and risking failure, or disappointing parents who've
waited to see their son/daughter graduate after 4 years of school
really are tough choices to make, even if you are very dedicated to a
hard working ultimate team. Having some of these seniors absent from
nationals could irreparably damage the quality/chemistry of these
upper level teams. Meaning - college nationals could be a whole lot
less interesting if the best teams can't show their best players. Sad
day for ultimate, I say.
doug...@hotmail.com
> > In no way is it professional to release and sell such an unfinished
> > product. We're talking about CSTV here, a CBS Company. The standards
> > for professionalism are much higher than what you can do in your
> > basement. Imagine if the six DVDs from Season One of Veronica Mars
> > DVDs had 30 seconds of black time for every commercial. Would you
> > say, "well, when you pay $15 for 6 DVDs that cover a full school year
> > at Neptune High, criticisms for lack of professionalism seem somewhat
> > undeserved"? I don't think so. That's outrageous.
>
> It's hard to believe that all this criticism and dissatisfaction stems
> from a few 20 second blackouts on a single DVD. Do your DVDs from 2004
> and 2005 have these blackouts?
I only bought the 2003 DVD and have since refused to support CSTV's
DVD sales. The blackouts is a really big deal to me. If it's held
out as professionally produced, then it should meet basic standards.
We're talking about an hour of editing, not some major undertaking.
Would you find the blackouts acceptable in any other commercially
available DVDs?
> Can I ask what would constitute a good faith effort then? Like you,
> I'm not completely satisfied with CSTV, but they're not doing a
> horrible job. They could certainly air their coverage sooner (or even
> live if you really want to shoot for the stars) and cut out the
> clueless generic commentator, but free streaming video on their
> website isn't half bad. I think the real blame lies with the UPA for
> entering into an agreement with a network that has such limited
> distribution and isn't willing to dedicate more of its already limited
> resources to Ultimate coverage.
I've struggled to use the streaming video. It requires a very
consistent high speed internet connection and the quality is
mediocre. I've tried from a variety of different locations and have
not been able to reliably watch the videos. So "half-bad" might not
describe it, but neither would "half-good." I agree that some blame
lies with the UPA for entering into the agreement, but at least I have
no doubt that it was a good faith attempt to promote the sport.
Seemed like a good idea at the time, but now let's move on to
something new. A good faith effort by CSTV would be taking the time
to do minimal editing on the DVDs from the get go. That alone
undermines anything else they've done. I haven't found anything of
their footage that has been any better than past film (College
Nationals 1999 or 2000, for example)
> One important point point though, public access channels are only
> offered by cable companies because of legal requirements; satellite
> providers are under no such obligation, and don't provide public
> access.
Right. Thats precisely the issue. If we're trying to promote the
sport, choosing a channel with very limited penetration is not a great
idea, unless they give some sweet deal. All Public Access Channels
are available by broadcast in addition to those carried by cable
providers. Cable penetration is something upward of 80%. Satellite
users wanting broadcast just have to pick up a cheap pair of bunny
ears. No such option if the footage is only available on satellite.
> Maybe allowing Rob to film the finals and sell the footage is the best
> option the UPA has (an established relationship with a subsidiary of a
> major TV network could come in handy when Ultimate does generate
> enough revenue to merit real national coverage though). An online poll
> of UPA members' opinions seems like it could be helpful. Interestingly
> though, while not a large advantage, CSTV *does* offer finals footage
> for free, while if it were offered only through Ultivillage,
> enthusiasts would have to pay to see it (which I would willingly do).
> I guess my point is that while there may be better options out there,
> CSTV has provided all the coverage that can be expected from a minor
> TV network that stands to gain very little from doing so.
I'm not entirely clear on the relationship between the UPA and CSTV.
My impression was that the UPA was paying CSTV to do the filming, at
least at some point. Has that balance shifted such that CSTV no
longer receives money? Nonetheless, the free access point is valid
from an end-user perspective. As for the coverage CSTV has provided,
I agree that that has all been reasonable enough, but it's nothing
special and doesn't seem much better than the 1999 footage.
Therefore, it isn't worth the cost of restrictions on other
videographers and the cost of fencing in Ultimate's potentional
television exposure in the future.
In summary, CSTV did a crappy job in 2003 and I hold a grudge for
that. Their current offerings are not so special as to justify
entering into such a restrictive agreement with them. Let's take off
the shackles and explore other options.
ElCic...@gmail.com
Hey, guess what? Same scenario happens every year for a plethera of
schools, sorry yours didn't work out this time.
Ryan Kircher
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah this whole Finals/Graduation crap is just plain stupid people
whining.
If NATIONALS were pushed back then people would have REGIONALS during
the same time period, and people would have to choose between
regionals or school crap. I know I did when I was graduating...
I hear a lot of whining, but no suggestions on a solution (probably
because there isn't one).
For that matter... there are several Sectionals that occur over Easter
weekend every year. How can the UPA make people choose between
ultimate and god?
That's just awful.
Torre
>
> For that matter... there are several Sectionals that occur over Easter
> weekend every year. How can the UPA make people choose between
> ultimate and god?
> That's just awful.
agreed having to chose between religion and ultimate sucks.
however last year i think there were only two sectionals on Easter
weekend.
(the only one i know for sure was the Blue Ridge section) so i don't
know how strong that argument is.
BJ
with due notice, ive never had a problem with a professor allowing me
to make up an exam. my school is real big too, im sure your little
ones could handle it.
Adam Tarr
> > On Dec 3, 12:08 pm, chicle...@excite.com wrote:
>
> > > It's a huge mistake to think that it would be
> > > "expected" for professors to allow students to miss an exam for UPA
> > > nationals. The most dispressing thing is that players will now be
> > > forced to make a choice between their teams and their family. Missing
> > > a final exam and risking failure, or disappointing parents who've
> > > waited to see their son/daughter graduate after 4 years of school
> > > really are tough choices to make, even if you are very dedicated to a
> > > hard working ultimate team. Having some of these seniors absent from
> > > nationals could irreparably damage the quality/chemistry of these
> > > upper level teams. Meaning - college nationals could be a whole lot
> > > less interesting if the best teams can't show their best players. Sad
> > > day for ultimate, I say.
>
>
> Yeah this whole Finals/Graduation crap is just plain stupid people whining.
> If NATIONALS were pushed back then people would have REGIONALS during
> the same time period, and people would have to choose between
> regionals or school crap. I know I did when I was graduating...
>
> I hear a lot of whining, but no suggestions on a solution (probably
> because there isn't one).
>
> For that matter... there are several Sectionals that occur over Easter
> weekend every year. How can the UPA make people choose between
> ultimate and god?
> That's just awful.
Club sectionals has conflicted with Rosh Hashannah or Yom Kippur a few
times, too.
I am not denying that a few people won't be able to get out of exams,
or that a few people will have to choose between graduation and
watching/playing in finals. The point is that all dates, including
memorial day weekend, have conflicts.
Handy
Clearly you haven't graduated. Try telling your parents (aka the
people writing the check so you can go to school) how you'd rather be
elsewhere than wearing that "dumb gown."
Oh privilege.
That being said, the UPA has done a pretty good job for the last
decades not screwing over a bunch of teams in terms of scheduling so...
Baer
> >final exams are a little bit more important than wearing a dumb gown.
>
> Clearly you haven't graduated. Try telling your parents (aka the
> people writing the check so you can go to school) how you'd rather be
> elsewhere than wearing that "dumb gown."
>
> Oh privilege.
>
Privilige indeed, if someone else is actually paying your education
expenses for you...
Handy
> expenses for you...
In liberal arts schools in the NE, most often such is the way. I'm
sure someone will now post that they scrounged up the $160,000+ for
their 4 years but spare me, the vast majority you are not. Thus my
statement about graduation stands.
Also, Easter commonly used to conflict with our sectionals when I was
in school, but ya deal. I mean why would Jesus bother saving us if he
then wanted us to go home and paint eggs and eat candy instead of do
what we love? Wait a second.... maybe I missed this one...
jeffy...@yahoo.com
>
> Also, Easter commonly used to conflict with our sectionals when I was
> in school, but ya deal. I mean why would Jesus bother saving us if he
> then wanted us to go home and paint eggs and eat candy instead of do
> what we love? Wait a second.... maybe I missed this one...
Oh boy, the easter bunny is rolling in his grave...