While you were at nationals, Survey on the role of observers
Heinousboy
recently posted a survey on the role of observers in ultimate.
If you are unaware it is probably because it was posted on the eve of
nationals, the day before the majority of the people who would end up
playing under the current and future observer system were getting
ready to play ultimate.
The survey is here
And Peri's commentary is, as of writing, the top post on the UPA BoD
blog.
http://upa-board.blogspot.com/
The announcement of the survey of course sparked some controversy (see
full post here http://tiny.cc/UDHMv ) because every option given was a
description of how observer's roles should be limited except for the
last one which has an obvious negative bias and reads "there should be
no guiding principle-the role of observers should be allowed to
change." Surprisingly no one brought up the timing of the survey.
So if you missed this survey because you were at the UPA championships
here's your opportunity to be heard.
The final question of course is, will we every see the results for
this survey?
ulticritic
>
> The final question of course is, will we every see the results for
> this survey?
or get an answer as to why the line of answers was so overtly one
sided?
Colin
> If you are unaware it is probably because it was posted on the eve of
> nationals, the day before the majority of the people who would end up
> playing under the current and future observer system were getting
> ready to play ultimate.
Yeah, what a sneaky move by the UPA, posting it on the eve of
Nationals and concealing it on the front page of the UPA website and
on RSD and on the UPA Board blog. Because players at Nationals can't
get news upon their return and it is well-known that internet is not
available in the state of Florida.
What are you trying to hide, UPA?
http://www.upa.org/
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.disc/browse_frm/thread/5d6cb3daf39e87d9/a5e235af6e760a3d?lnk=gst&q=peri#a5e235af6e760a3d
http://upa-board.blogspot.com/
Heinousboy
tournament weekend so I should have probably waited to post till
today. Thanks for putting the links up again too.
Anyway, in response to your post I'm not sure how many tournaments
you've been to but I don't remember anyone on my team checking RSD at
any of them. Usually on the road your stuck with a per diem internet
connection and at best your checking important things like email, not
sifting through spam for meaningful posts on RSD.
As far as this being posted at the UPA website, well there's a 37 post
thread on how crappy and outdated the upa website is. See here.
I didn't know it was posted on the UPA site till I wrote my above
post, did you know it was there before you posted? Does anyone use
this "crappy site" for news and updates on any kind of regular basis?
And the UPA board blog, well, not much different. Peri posted the
board blog update on RSD because that's how to move people to that
site. Peri's originally board blog post was on the 26th, but the RSD
post was on the 29th, probably because no one had taken the survey up
to that point.
Now this last statement probably offers the best explanation for the
timing of the post. I figure someone should follow through and let
everyone in the ultimate community know about the survey so they can
be represented.
Again, will we ever see the results? And why such a negative bias?
Maintaining fairness, ensuring a faster paced game, upholding a high
standard in sportsmanship, Certainly these could be guiding
principles for observered or better yet reffed ultimate.
On Nov 9, 4:04 am, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 7:48 am, Heinousboy <andrewz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If you are unaware it is probably because it was posted on the eve of
> > nationals, the day before the majority of the people who would end up
> > playing under the current and future observer system were getting
> > ready to play ultimate.
>
> Yeah, what a sneaky move by the UPA, posting it on the eve of
> Nationals and concealing it on the front page of the UPA website and
> on RSD and on the UPA Board blog. Because players at Nationals can't
> get news upon their return and it is well-known that internet is not
> available in the state of Florida.
>
> What are you trying to hide, UPA?
>
Knappy
week before nationals, but I could be wrong about that.
> >http://www.upa.org/http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.disc/brow...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Heinousboy
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just checked my UPA emails. There was a college restructuring survey
that went out on the 20th and was highlighted on the 27th and an
eligibility survey on October 10th. Nothing about the observer survey.
Colin
> Anyway, in response to your post I'm not sure how many tournaments
> you've been to but I don't remember anyone on my team checking RSD at
> any of them.
Lots of tournaments. Probably averaging 15-20 a year over the past
several years. If there's internet access, I usually check my e-mail
and check anything else that interests me. Sometimes that's RSD.
Same with my teammates. There's not always internet access, but I'd
say there is at the majority of lodgings for tournaments I go to.
> As far as this being posted at the UPA website, well there's a 37 post
> thread on how crappy and outdated the upa website is. See here.
Yeah, complaining about having to click on lots of stuff and about not
having the important stuff on the front page. How does that relate to
this bit of news being right on the front page?
> I didn't know it was posted on the UPA site till I wrote my above
> post, did you know it was there before you posted?
Yes. I saw it on the UPA site when I visited, either while I was in
Sarasota or shortly thereafter. I went to the upa front page to click
on the link to the club championship site when I was looking something
up. This was right there. Either way, I got the news. I also saw
the RSD post. And I saw ulticritic's follow-up critique of the
survey. Your post was old news to me. That's also why your complaint
came off as such a ridiculous conspiracy theory to me.
> Does anyone use
> this "crappy site" for news and updates on any kind of regular basis?
> And the UPA board blog, well, not much different.
> Peri posted the
> board blog update on RSD because that's how to move people to that
> site. Peri's originally board blog post was on the 26th, but the RSD
> post was on the 29th, probably because no one had taken the survey up
> to that point.
Wait, a minute. Players at the Club Championships don't get on RSD
mid-tournament. They're busy preparing to play. Peri couldn't
possibly have posted on RSD on the 29th. You must be wrong about
something here.
> Now this last statement probably offers the best explanation for the
> timing of the post. I figure someone should follow through and let
> everyone in the ultimate community know about the survey so they can
> be represented.
Yes. Thank goodness for Heinousboy taking up the slack in the UPA's
publicity efforts. I'd like to see more e-mails out to the membership
for surveys like these. I do not receive many e-mails from the UPA,
so I would welcome a few more asking my input on things. But I also
don't struggle to find out news when I'm interested.
As a side note, LOTS of players are affected by the observer system
who are not at the Club Championships. I'm sure you're aware of this,
even if you pretend not to be. I know you pulled your "majority" out
of thin air, but at minimum you should recognize that a very
significant number of players likely "to end up playing under the
current or future observer system" were not in Sarasota. Probably
more than half of the college division, for example.
Heinousboy
> On Nov 9, 10:38 am, Heinousboy <andrewz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Anyway, in response to your post I'm not sure how many tournaments
> > you've been to but I don't remember anyone on my team checking RSD at
> > any of them.
>
> Lots of tournaments. Probably averaging 15-20 a year over the past
> several years. If there's internet access, I usually check my e-mail
> and check anything else that interests me. Sometimes that's RSD.
> Same with my teammates. There's not always internet access, but I'd
> say there is at the majority of lodgings for tournaments I go to.
Colin, Jeez you've posted how many posts in the last 3 hours. You're
obviously an RSD junky like Gerics, Toad, and I. We're talking about
normal players here.
> > As far as this being posted at the UPA website, well there's a 37 post
> > thread on how crappy and outdated the upa website is. See here.
>
> Yeah, complaining about having to click on lots of stuff and about not
> having the important stuff on the front page. How does that relate to
> this bit of news being right on the front page?
The fact that no one actually uses the site to get news.
> > I didn't know it was posted on the UPA site till I wrote my above
> > post, did you know it was there before you posted?
>
> Yes. I saw it on the UPA site when I visited, either while I was in
> Sarasota or shortly thereafter. I went to the upa front page to click
> on the link to the club championship site when I was looking something
> up. This was right there. Either way, I got the news. I also saw
> the RSD post. And I saw ulticritic's follow-up critique of the
> survey. Your post was old news to me. That's also why your complaint
> came off as such a ridiculous conspiracy theory to me.
So you're inferring that everyone at club nationals saw this because
you saw it. I went to the UPA website multiple times for the exact
same reason and never noticed. Honestly, does the day of the national
championship sound like the right time for this?
> > Does anyone use
> > this "crappy site" for news and updates on any kind of regular basis?
> > And the UPA board blog, well, not much different.
> > Peri posted the
> > board blog update on RSD because that's how to move people to that
> > site. Peri's originally board blog post was on the 26th, but the RSD
> > post was on the 29th, probably because no one had taken the survey up
> > to that point.
>
> Wait, a minute. Players at the Club Championships don't get on RSD
> mid-tournament. They're busy preparing to play. Peri couldn't
> possibly have posted on RSD on the 29th. You must be wrong about
> something here.
cute.
> > Now this last statement probably offers the best explanation for the
> > timing of the post. I figure someone should follow through and let
> > everyone in the ultimate community know about the survey so they can
> > be represented.
>
> Yes. Thank goodness for Heinousboy taking up the slack in the UPA's
> publicity efforts. I'd like to see more e-mails out to the membership
> for surveys like these. I do not receive many e-mails from the UPA,
> so I would welcome a few more asking my input on things. But I also
> don't struggle to find out news when I'm interested.
Umm, you mean anti-publicity efforts.
> As a side note, LOTS of players are affected by the observer system
> who are not at the Club Championships. I'm sure you're aware of this,
> even if you pretend not to be. I know you pulled your "majority" out
> of thin air, but at minimum you should recognize that a very
> significant number of players likely "to end up playing under the
> current or future observer system" were not in Sarasota. Probably
> more than half of the college division, for example.
I don't pretend not to know this. Considering teams that will play
under the UPA observer system. You've got your sectionals tournament
with maybe finals observered (probably a nationals team there).
You've got your regional tournament with semi's and finals and all
games to go observered, (probably mostly nationals teams there too).
Then you've got your nationals tournament, I'll spare you.
The only other UPA tournaments with observers is the college series.
But again this group is going to be the top tier teams which have a
portion of their players at the nationals tournament also. Majority,
well I'll wager this makes up more than half.
Colin
> On Nov 9, 7:54 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, complaining about having to click on lots of stuff and about not
> > having the important stuff on the front page. How does that relate to
> > this bit of news being right on the front page?
>
> The fact that no one actually uses the site to get news.
That doesn't mean the information is not readily available for those
interested.
> > > I didn't know it was posted on the UPA site till I wrote my above
> > > post, did you know it was there before you posted?
>
> > Yes. I saw it on the UPA site when I visited, either while I was in
> > Sarasota or shortly thereafter. I went to the upa front page to click
> > on the link to the club championship site when I was looking something
> > up. This was right there. Either way, I got the news. I also saw
> > the RSD post. And I saw ulticritic's follow-up critique of the
> > survey. Your post was old news to me. That's also why your complaint
> > came off as such a ridiculous conspiracy theory to me.
>
> So you're inferring that everyone at club nationals saw this because
> you saw it. I went to the UPA website multiple times for the exact
> same reason and never noticed. Honestly, does the day of the national
> championship sound like the right time for this?
I'm not inferring anything. I'm answering your question. The
information is still up there today. It does not matter that it was
posted on the day of the national championships. It is still there.
for everyone to see. today. yesterday. the day before. it's there.
> > Yes. Thank goodness for Heinousboy taking up the slack in the UPA's
> > publicity efforts. I'd like to see more e-mails out to the membership
> > for surveys like these. I do not receive many e-mails from the UPA,
> > so I would welcome a few more asking my input on things. But I also
> > don't struggle to find out news when I'm interested.
>
> Umm, you mean anti-publicity efforts.
No, that's not what I mean. Publicity. Posting news in at least
three different places readily accessible by UPA members. Publicity.
If members don't care about this stuff, that's another issue. But
the UPA front page has been the source for news for a long time. It
is no secret that people can find news there.
> > As a side note, LOTS of players are affected by the observer system
> > who are not at the Club Championships. I'm sure you're aware of this,
> > even if you pretend not to be. I know you pulled your "majority" out
> > of thin air, but at minimum you should recognize that a very
> > significant number of players likely "to end up playing under the
> > current or future observer system" were not in Sarasota. Probably
> > more than half of the college division, for example.
>
> I don't pretend not to know this.
Then stop pretending that the number of players not at Club Nationals
who will play under the current OR FUTURE observer system is
insignificant. And stop pretending that the only time people can get
news is on the very first of many days that it is posted prominently
in a public place.
Heinousboy
Wow, I've really struck a nerve.
Anyway, all I really care about is people seeing the post checking the
links if they haven't already and getting to know the ideology of the
president of the organization a little better. So thanks for keeping
this post alive for so long.
Colin
No problem. I'm all about the UPA collecting as much feedback/data as
possible from the members. So that's great to be on the same page
there.
I'm not a fan of poorly thought-out, unjustified digs at the UPA.
There are plenty of areas to direct meaningful, well-supported
criticism. No need to dilute such criticism with this garbage. I
don't think we're on the same page here.
Heinousboy
Yes, well in my opinion any dig at the UPA is justified. There
insistence on not just promoting their backwards arbitration system
but mandating it for all tournaments associated with their
organization is what is unjustifiable. As long as that is their
policy then in my mind it's open season.
Bones
Damn Heinousboy, welcome to the Internet. Don't flatter yourself by
claiming to be on the same level of bizzaro-world thinking as Toad and
Mike G.
Sucks to hate those of us in orange, eh? I think we'll be around for
a while.
I'm in your GaMeZ, Obs3rving ur fOuLz,
Bones
PS All your base are belong to us.
PPS *takes off sunglasses* YEEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHH
ulticritic
>
> I'm not a fan of poorly thought-out, unjustified digs at the UPA.
I AM!!!! although i dont know if any of the digs they got concerning
this issue were all that "unjustified".
--------------------------------------------
> There are plenty of areas to direct meaningful, well-supported
> criticism.
ya got that strainght!
ulticritic
>
> Yes, well in my opinion any dig at the UPA is justified.
the man makes a pretty good point here
ulticritic
>
> Damn Heinousboy, welcome to the Internet. Don't flatter yourself by
> claiming to be on the same level of bizzaro-world thinking as Toad and
> Mike G.
whats bizzaro (backwards) about the way i think.......other than maybe
that ultimate is savable?
====================================
>
> Sucks to hate those of us in orange, eh? I think we'll be around for
> a while.
well, hopefully youll modernize your "look" (color). speaking of
which.....has anybody noticed the new nbe ref unies????? seems like
they are copying the nfl's look a little. how smart of them.