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ME regional scores?

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JephB

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Apr 26, 2008, 12:50:59 PM4/26/08
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post em if you got em

Bob Koca

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Apr 26, 2008, 1:40:53 PM4/26/08
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On Apr 26, 12:50 pm, JephB <FreeRonArt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> post em if you got em


Pitt vs Del and Md. vs Upenn in semis.
Only actual score I know is Del over Edinboro 15-13.

Bob Koca

Bob Koca

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Apr 26, 2008, 4:09:19 PM4/26/08
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In the semis Delaware defeated Pitt and Md. defeated Upenn. Also
know that
Edinboro won backdoor game vs Penn St.

Bob Koca

saml...@yahoo.com

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Apr 26, 2008, 4:26:20 PM4/26/08
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while it's obviously not in the same league as Wisconsin/Carleton or
something like that, Maryland/Delaware is definitely an old-school
backyard brawl kind of rivalry that goes way back. as an ex-Maryland
guy from the 90s, I'm now even more disappointed about not being able
to go up to Princeton... biggest Maryland/Delaware game EVAR!

also -- despite a bunch of regional semis and Sunday appearances at
regionals, this is first time Maryland has ever played in a regional
championship game and I think only the second time they've been in a
game with a nationals bid on the line

GO SPACE BASTARDS!!!!!!!!!!

(any word on how the women's bracket went)

Ralph

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Apr 26, 2008, 4:31:39 PM4/26/08
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Cornell lost to Princeton.
Cornell beat Hofstra and G-Dub. (which means G-dub beat Bucknell first-
round)
I heard the Cornell/G-Dub game was close.


colinm...@gmail.com

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Apr 26, 2008, 4:35:09 PM4/26/08
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I heard Ottawa and Maryland Women are in the finals.

Bulb

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Apr 26, 2008, 6:10:06 PM4/26/08
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On Apr 26, 4:09 pm, Bob Koca <bob_k...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Delaware was up 14-9 on Pitt. Pitt scored 3 in a row to make it
14-12, and moments later the hard cap goes on... game over. Tough way
to lose, but those are the breaks.

Josh Suskin and Chris Brenenborg played exceptionally well for Pitt.
Both are definitely All-Region material. I must say, despite whatever
season they have had, none of the other individuals on Pitt showed
themselves to be All-Region material. In a close game, where they
started out down 3-0, instead of making big plays to bring the score
back close, they were making lots of drops and throwaways. They are
still, as always, a much deeper team than Delaware, but no one other
than Suskin and Brenenborg deserves the All-Region nod.

As expected, Delaware's offense was dominated by Miggs, Keegan, and
Slater. All three showed themselves to be All-Region material,
getting open at will against one of the top ranked teams in the
country.

Excited for the Delaware/Maryland final tomorrow!

Bulb
Delaware '03-'07

GGreen...@gmail.com

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Apr 26, 2008, 7:53:14 PM4/26/08
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Penn State lost 15-13 to carleton 1st round.
Beat queens 15-13 1st round consolations
lost to edinboro 15-13 in backdoor quarters
beat bucknell 13-6 to end up tied for 9th?

Edinboro over Princeton in one backdoor game to play tomorrow.
Lehigh and Cornell were duking it out in the other game but i dont
know the result.

All-Region list after saturday:
Slater (UDEL)
Keegan (UDEL)
Suskin (PITT)
Brenenbourg (PITT)
Lenny (BORO)

Unfortunately i didnt get to catch maryland or Upenn's games so i cant
comment on Ricky or any of the guys from UMD but there were a ton of
cheers and a callahan or two in the semis vs.Upenn so i'm sure at
least 1 probably 2 guys deserve a spot.

It will be interesting to see if whoever loses in the finals will have
enough left to stave off Pittsburgh should they make it to the game to
go again.

Dave Branick

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Apr 26, 2008, 8:09:12 PM4/26/08
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All reported scores are up on Score Reporter from Open & Women's ME
Regionals. A few of the women's backdoor bracket and consolation
scores from the last round did not make it either to the tent or onto
my score card, so they'll be put up tomorrow.

Cheers,

Dave Branick
ME Open RC

Bulb

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Apr 27, 2008, 12:43:01 AM4/27/08
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> All-Region list after saturday:
> Slater (UDEL)
> Keegan (UDEL)
> Suskin (PITT)
> Brenenbourg (PITT)
> Lenny (BORO)

It's true that Slater and Keegan stood out a little more than Miggs
today, Slater with his huge throws and Keegan with his big grabs
(especially a sliding catch near the back of the end zone to take half
8-5), but Miggs was still getting open at will - maybe not making the
huge plays, but kept the offense running enough for the other two to
get their opportunities. I said this about him last year, and I'll
say it again today: he won't make your jaw drop, but that's just
because he makes it all look so easy. Leaving him off an All-Region
list would be a crime (but after the Pitt game, I honestly feel the
same about Keegan and Slater).

Ricky carried his team in their come back win over Carleton (after
being down 10-5), he's another lock.

I, too, have not seen Maryland at all this season. Pretty excited for
the finals tomorrow!

Kieffer

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Apr 27, 2008, 5:42:32 AM4/27/08
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OK dude let it go, you don't play college ultimate anymore. Stop all
the hype

Rich Johnston

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Apr 27, 2008, 1:35:26 PM4/27/08
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Ottawa over MD (women's) 15-2

Del up on MD 10-9 (men's)

match

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Apr 27, 2008, 1:43:59 PM4/27/08
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Golden...@gmail.com

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Apr 27, 2008, 3:10:03 PM4/27/08
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Any update?

chris....@gmail.com

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Apr 27, 2008, 3:30:01 PM4/27/08
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On Apr 27, 3:10 pm, GoldenStic...@gmail.com wrote:
> Any update?

udel over md 13-12 in the finals (apparently a big controversy w/ the
hard cap at the end, someone want to elaborate?)
and then pitt over md something like 15-7 or so in the game to go

so udel and pitt to nationals

Pete Letteney

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Apr 27, 2008, 3:31:04 PM4/27/08
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On Apr 27, 3:10 pm, GoldenStic...@gmail.com wrote:
> Any update?

delaware won finals 13-12 over maryland. i heard pitt way up on
maryland in the backdoor final.

Rachel....@gmail.com

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Apr 27, 2008, 3:55:14 PM4/27/08
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Yeah, there was a huge UDel/MD controversy - UDel was up 12-10, game
to 14. UDel scored, 13-10. MD scored, 13-11. Maryland gets the D and
works it down the field, disc is thrown into the endzone, Reuben
jumps, catches the disc, comes down with it to make it 13-12. BUT the
hard cap horn was blown at some point during that last throw. Whether
it was blown before he had the disc in his hand or after he caught it
is questionable, but he definitely hadn't landed with the disc in his
hand (and so technically hadn't scored) before the cap went on. So,
cap went on when it was 13-11, UDel is up by 2, game over, UDel wins
and goes to nationals. It just sucks because he was literally half a
second away from scoring when the cap went on. And meanwhile, MD has
been killing themselves and their best players trying to play with
UDel, and then they had to play a relatively rested Pitt in the game
to go.

Bob Koca

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Apr 27, 2008, 4:20:13 PM4/27/08
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Sounds like everyone agreed that the score came after the cap horn.
The rules were followed correctly. So how is it a huge controversy?

Bob Koca

will.emo...@gmail.com

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Apr 27, 2008, 4:48:38 PM4/27/08
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Any update on the backdoor final?

will.emo...@gmail.com

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Apr 27, 2008, 4:53:41 PM4/27/08
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On Apr 27, 3:30 pm, chris.cor...@gmail.com wrote:
>then pitt over md something like 15-7 or so in the game to go
>
> so udel and pitt to nationals

Nevermind, I suck at reading

colinm...@gmail.com

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Apr 27, 2008, 5:02:59 PM4/27/08
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On Apr 27, 1:35 pm, Rich Johnston <henry.johns...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ottawa over MD (women's) 15-2
>
> Del up on MD 10-9 (men's)

MD over Pitt 15-7 for the second bid in the women's division.

Dan Cuoco

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Apr 27, 2008, 6:10:03 PM4/27/08
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There wasn't much argument over the hard cap in the finals. It didn't
look like Maryland argued about it, and Dave Branick (who ran the
tournament very well) made his call. Just kinda sucks that that is
how it ended.

As for all-region players, the people that stood out to me during the
weekend were, in no particular order:

Brenenborg (Pitt)
Rob Dulabon (Pitt)
Keegan (Delaware)
Nick Hirannet (Delaware)
Matt Gallin (Delaware)
Sam Burnim (Maryland)
Andrew Hempstead (Maryland)
sorta short/skinny guy on Edinboro who didn't have the jersey on but a
darker red shirt (sorry I don't know your name)
Ricky (still didn't see him play, but sounds like he had a great
weekend)

FOTY: Down to Plunkett (Pitt) and Freddy Tsai (UMD). Honestly would
have given the nod to Plunkett before, as Freddy struck me as just a
defensive player. However, he spent all weekend consistently covering
the best player on other teams and doing very well, and in the finals/
backdoor he had much more impact as a cutter than he did in the
sectional finals. So to me, I'd go with Freddy.

So to me it is between those 9 for all-region and those 2 for FOTY.


Bulb

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Apr 27, 2008, 6:53:11 PM4/27/08
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On Apr 27, 5:42 am, Kieffer <dkief...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK dude let it go, you don't play college ultimate anymore. Stop all the hype

The hype? I'm talking about games that have already taken place.
It's not like I'm saying "Delaware is head and shoulders above the
rest of the region, they are going to dominate this weekend" because
THAT, Officer, would be hype.

barthal...@yahoo.com

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Apr 27, 2008, 7:57:03 PM4/27/08
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As far as All Region goes, it seems Rob Dulabon had a pretty stellar
game in the Back door Final, a.k.a. The Pittsburgh Cup, against
Maryland. His D against Freddy Tsai was absolutely disgusting, count
yourself lucky if you stuck around to watch, just for that. Certainly
don't throw him out of All-Region discussion because of anything Bulb
says, it's true that guy doesn't even play college ultimate anymore.
Rob's a true leader on our team, and he led with fire on the fields
today. Both Rob and Josh Suskin played both ways during important
points in Sunday games, where we had to have the break or the score or
our season was over. Joshy caught the majority of our O goals against
Cornell and Edinboro, mostly from hucks by Chris or Rob. Josh also
got the game winning layout D against Boro. After our little stumble
yesterday, it was these two that brought the fire back to Pittsburgh
and these two that won those match ups that won those points that won
us the day. These two are our best outgoing players, bar none. It
would be a truly terrible shame if both did not get the recognition
they deserve in their last year of college Ultimate, for their role in
Pittsburgh's rise over the last 4 years and for the success Pittsburgh
has shared with the Metro East this year and prior.

And FOTY: To be much too blunt, all I saw of Freddy Tsai, from the
games that have already taken place, was a sweet hammer turnover which
4 Pitt men gobbled up, an awesome throwaway huck on Pitt game point,
getting D'd by Rob Dulabon so amazingly, and getting supremely roasted
by center handler Chowder Baynes for the game winning score, who
simply allowed the 2 Maryland players near him for dramatic affect.
To Freddy's credit he did get one layout D against Rob in the endzone
(before Rob answered with his own much more impressive layout), but
overall it seemed his contribution was in the negative. And in
addition to Plunkett, don't throw out our other Freshman of the Year
candidate, Julian Hausman. His absence on Saturday was severely
missed by our cup and the D-line's offense, our results on Sunday seem
pretty indicative of his importance to our team. He also got that
huge Callahan in the Pitt Cup.

one of two,
eddie peters #36

Jackson

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Apr 27, 2008, 8:22:35 PM4/27/08
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Is Rob #21?

Bulb

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Apr 27, 2008, 8:41:07 PM4/27/08
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> As far as All Region goes, it seems Rob Dulabon had a pretty stellar
> game in the Back door Final, a.k.a. The Pittsburgh Cup, against
> Maryland. His D against Freddy Tsai was absolutely disgusting, count
> yourself lucky if you stuck around to watch, just for that. Certainly
> don't throw him out of All-Region discussion because of anything Bulb
> says, it's true that guy doesn't even play college ultimate anymore.

You have to be in college to post in an All-Region thread? I know
they don't teach that at Pitt.

> Rob's a true leader on our team, and he led with fire on the fields
> today. Both Rob and Josh Suskin played both ways during important
> points in Sunday games, where we had to have the break or the score or
> our season was over. Joshy caught the majority of our O goals against
> Cornell and Edinboro, mostly from hucks by Chris or Rob. Josh also
> got the game winning layout D against Boro.

Rob did have an excellent game against Maryland today. Got open all
game no matter who was guarding him, got a bunch of D's whenever
Maryland's offense seemed to be coming together. Brenenborg played
well today too. However, I truly feel Josh set himself apart from the
rest of the Pitt players this weekend. He is definitely one of the
most complete players in the Metro East. If any Pitt players feel I
am slighting their teammates, please understand that is not my
intention. I felt Josh deserved All-Region last year, even over two
of his teammates who received the honor. I am simply voicing my
opinion that he DEFINITELY deserves it this year.

george...@gmail.com

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Apr 27, 2008, 11:36:15 PM4/27/08
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After watching the play at regionals today, these are my picks for all-
region. Unfortunately for good players at small schools, you get
these picks by performing on the biggest stage and performing well.

Josh Suskin (Pitt) - Played both ways for them in the game-to-go. One
of their best all-around players who stepped up to make every play his
team needed on Sunday.
Rob Dulabon (Pitt) - Played a fantastic game-to-go with a disgusting
layout D on Freddy Tsai and a ridiculous endzone layout on a high
release flick I was sure was turfed.
Sean Keegan (UDel) - Made almost every big play for UDel in the
finals. I heard he also played a big part in their upset of Pitt.
Nick Hirannet (UDel) - Against Maryland, he touched the disc on almost
every offensive possession and wasn't being stopped.
Sam Burnim (Maryland) - Probably played the best of any of the
Maryland players in the game-to-go and finals. Andrew Hempstead
("Ultimate") also played very well.
Lenny (Edinboro) - Scored or threw probably 12 of their goals against
us and was pretty much unstoppable in the air. A huge reason they
placed fourth and managed to be well-spirited and respectful
throughout our game.
Ricky (UPenn) - Probably the smoothest handler I saw all weekend. Led
a Penn team to a great season and a fifth place finish as well as
coming back from a 10-5 deficit to Carleton in the second round.

Honorable Mentions:
-"Spanish" from Lehigh for taking his team, seeded 13th, to a 7th
place finish.

FOTY:
Freddy Tsai - Didn't play the best game against Pitt, but had a strong
game against Del and looked incredibly composed for a freshman on the
biggest stage. The only challenger would be Julian Hausman who had a
great game-to-go, but I think Freddy was asked to shoulder the bigger
load and performed relatively better.

I had a great weekend and hope everyone enjoyed regionals at
Princeton.

George Brell
Princeton #13

dlto...@yahoo.com

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Apr 28, 2008, 4:31:27 AM4/28/08
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As a Lehigh player, nobody can comment more about our captain and
fantastic player, Spanish, than someone on his team. As the team who
made the largest jump in seed, Spanish, our captain and leader on and
off the field, made that possible. If Spanish isn't a serious
consideration for All Region, everyone who is qualified should be
ashamed. Spanish defended some of the best offensive players in the
metro east, not to mention offensively handled some of the best
players in the Metro east. His play and will to give 100 percent drove
our team to playing to our potential. His play in each game, but
particularly the first round game against Delaware was fantastic. Our
15-13 loss to Delaware can be attributed to the fantastic D play by
Spanish and fantastic offensive play by Spanish. If anyone leaves
Spanish off the All Region List, not only did you not watch the games,
but you don't truly know what All Region Material is. Spanish has
proved himself time and time again as a great captain, great leader
and ever more fantastic player. I don't think there is a player in the
ME that can beat him anywhere on the field.

In Terms of FOTY, Lehigh saw Freddy of UMD make arguably the worst
call ever made in Ultimate. "I had a pinky under it" has become the
most comical call of the year. He's a great player, but FOTY? really?

Congrats to UDel and Pitt. Make the ME proud.

Mike Gerics

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Apr 28, 2008, 6:58:09 AM4/28/08
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> so udel and pitt to nationals
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---WUFF Camp.


Mike Gerics

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Apr 28, 2008, 7:00:32 AM4/28/08
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hard cap.....like.....?????.....game over when it sounds?...if someone's up
by what?

dumb as fuck to end a series game with a horn.

<Rachel....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c4899aa4-5c89-4be5...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Mike Gerics

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Apr 28, 2008, 7:02:49 AM4/28/08
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> Josh Suskin (Pitt) - Played both ways for them in the game-to-go. One
> of their best all-around players who stepped up to make every play his
> team needed on Sunday.
> Rob Dulabon (Pitt) - Played a fantastic game-to-go with a disgusting
> layout D on Freddy Tsai and a ridiculous endzone layout on a high
> release flick I was sure was turfed.
> Sean Keegan (UDel) - Made almost every big play for UDel in the
> finals. I heard he also played a big part in their upset of Pitt.
> Nick Hirannet (UDel) - Against Maryland, he touched the disc on almost
> every offensive possession and wasn't being stopped.
> Sam Burnim (Maryland) - Probably played the best of any of the
> Maryland players in the game-to-go and finals. Andrew Hempstead
> ("Ultimate") also played very well.
> Lenny (Edinboro) - Scored or threw probably 12 of their goals against
> us and was pretty much unstoppable in the air. A huge reason they
> placed fourth and managed to be well-spirited and respectful
> throughout our game.
> Ricky (UPenn) - Probably the smoothest handler I saw all weekend. Led
> a Penn team to a great season and a fifth place finish as well as
> coming back from a 10-5 deficit to Carleton in the second round.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---from this list....5 outta 7 ME All Stars........WUFF Camp.


Jonah

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Apr 28, 2008, 9:39:56 AM4/28/08
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With regard to the end of the Delaware-Maryland game, I gotta say that
I really feel for those Maryland guys because that was one of the
harshest losses I have seen on the ultimate field. I had a great view
of the final catch and was standing right next to the horn when it
blew, and the horn could have gone off literally 2 seconds later and
Maryland would have been pulling the next point, down by one. The
throw was a 10 yard leading pass to an open receiver who was certainly
going to catch the goal, and the horn went off just as his hands were
grabbing the disc. Regardless of whether or not the rules were
followed (which they were), it was a pretty unsatisfying way to end a
finals game, with Maryland celebrating their break and pumped to push
for another, only to be told by the observer that the game was over.

Jonah

Finch

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Apr 28, 2008, 11:42:26 AM4/28/08
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I also was a spectator at that game and it seemed that the toughest
part was that no one on the field knew exactly when the hard cap was
going to go off. Maryland was not playing with a sense of urgency
time wise because they did not know precisely when the cap was going
on. It was very strange because I was also right in the endzone where
the tournament official was standing. Everyone in that area knew the
cap was going to go off, so it was kind of like watching a basketball
game with a team down only a few seconds to go, only the team with the
ball could not see the clock or even knew that the game was nearly
over. If Maryland had known the game was cap was going to be on in a
matter of seconds, they could have thrown less dump/swing passes and
tried to get it up field faster.

With observers present, there should have been warnings of some kind -
perhaps similar to the offsides countdown - so that both teams could
know what was occurring. If there is going to be such a strict time
enforcement (which there should be in games of this importance), the
players on the field have to know how much time is left.

Keith

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Apr 28, 2008, 12:57:30 PM4/28/08
to
The observer also shafted MD by calling a very close off sides on UDel
2 points before the end of the game. That easily added a minute to
the game when the soft cap was already on the hard cap was
approaching.

MD literally caught the disc between the 2 sounds of the hard cap. I
hope Dave's watch was dead on accurate...

Mike Gerics

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Apr 28, 2008, 1:04:40 PM4/28/08
to

> The observer also shafted MD by calling a very close off sides on UDel
> 2 points before the end of the game.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---i'm sorry...................the observer shafted Maryland, by making sure
that everyone out there was playing by the rules?


Bob Koca

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Apr 28, 2008, 1:39:51 PM4/28/08
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On Apr 27, 3:55 pm, Rachel.E.Sa...@gmail.com wrote:
> And meanwhile, MD has
> been killing themselves and their best players trying to play with
> UDel, and then they had to play a relatively rested Pitt in the game
> to go.

Pitt had played an extra game that day and had just beaten
Edinboro 15 - 13 during the same round as the Pitt - Udel game. If
they indeed had an advantage in terms of being rested as you say it
was due to being a deeper team and thus
a totally legitimate advantage.

Bob Koca


TrackStar

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Apr 28, 2008, 1:54:25 PM4/28/08
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This rule needs to be rewritten. In this case the final point of the
game is essentially meaningless, and if the cap had gone on mid-point
Maryland would be basically told to walk off the field and not play
because no matter what they do the game is over. Hard cap says the
game should continue if the teams are within 1 point of each other,
except if the score that puts the teams within 1 point occurs after
the horn is blown. Why? If the point is started then the point
should count, end of story. And if they decide this rule is perfectly
written then someone needs to be calling out how much time is left so
that more than one guy with a horn knows it.

TrackStar

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Apr 28, 2008, 2:00:12 PM4/28/08
to

No one is saying that the tournament didn't follow the rules. Far
from it. However, if Maryland is to lose a game due to bad clock
management or whatever term you want to use for not catching the disc
2 seconds earlier then they should at least know how much time is
remaining. The game would have continued if the Maryland player would
have bid for the disc instead of making the easy open catch he made.
Therefore, he should have the right to know how much time is left if
it's going to weigh that heavily on the outcome of the point.

Finch

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Apr 28, 2008, 2:54:58 PM4/28/08
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On Apr 28, 1:04 pm, "Mike Gerics" <mger...@ec.rr.com> wrote:

I agree, it's hard to say that Maryland was 'shafted' by the
observers. Just like any situation with observers, some calls were
questionable on both sides depending on your point of view, but there
did not seem to be any particular advantage given to either team.
Overall the game seemed to be well spirited on both sides. It was a
disappointing way to end an otherwise spectacular, hard fought game.


Mike Gerics

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Apr 28, 2008, 3:19:30 PM4/28/08
to
This rule needs to be rewritten. In this case the final point of the
game is essentially meaningless, and if the cap had gone on mid-point
Maryland would be basically told to walk off the field and not play
because no matter what they do the game is over. Hard cap says the
game should continue if the teams are within 1 point of each other,
except if the score that puts the teams within 1 point occurs after
the horn is blown. Why? If the point is started then the point
should count, end of story. And if they decide this rule is perfectly
written then someone needs to be calling out how much time is left so
that more than one guy with a horn knows it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"hard cap" is the dumbest shit ever created.
"hard cap" should never be used....ever.
"hard cap" should be abolished...forever.

2 hour rounds.....2 point cap 20 minutes prior to the next round....
be where you belong when you belong there......and what you miss....is what
you miss. don't assess points in the next round if your opponent is
battling in a come back game......

'hard cap' at REGIONALS??????????????????????
worst use of that dumbassed rule.


maybe use 'hard cap' at an overbooked regular season tournament with too few
fields that has 1 hour 20 minute rounds and games to 11 or something dumb
like that.

get that "hard cap" OUT of the rules of ultimate......

or someone explain how and when 'hard cap' is a good idea.


Mike Gerics

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Apr 28, 2008, 3:22:41 PM4/28/08
to
No one is saying that the tournament didn't follow the rules. Far
from it. However, if Maryland is to lose a game due to bad clock
management or whatever term you want to use for not catching the disc
2 seconds earlier then they should at least know how much time is
remaining. The game would have continued if the Maryland player would
have bid for the disc instead of making the easy open catch he made.
Therefore, he should have the right to know how much time is left if
it's going to weigh that heavily on the outcome of the point.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


--absolutely.....the teams SHOULD know exactly how much time they have...and
the amount of time they have should be announced repeatedly for the last 20
minutes of the game, or so.

i mean....the first announcement shouldn't be the sound of the horn.

but....abolish that hard cap rule now!


Rachel....@gmail.com

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Apr 28, 2008, 4:50:07 PM4/28/08
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> Pitt had played an extra game that day and had just beaten
> Edinboro 15 - 13 during the same round as the Pitt - Udel game. If
> they indeed had an advantage in terms of being rested as you say it
> was due to being a deeper team and thus
> a totally legitimate advantage.

Note that I said "relatively rested" - yes, Pitt had played an extra
game that day, but neither of their games were capped, and their game
against Edinboro finished at least an hour before the next round was
supposed to start, giving them more than the 20 or so minutes Maryland
had to regroup. It's not uncommon to see teams who find themselves
immediately down by 4 or more (against a much better team) to put
their less-experienced players in and rest their starters for the next
game, which then becomes more crucial, especially in a double-elim
bracket. But as Maryland's starters had given everything trying to
beat UDel, they were then in a disadvantageous position when they
played Pitt.

Tim

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Apr 28, 2008, 5:16:38 PM4/28/08
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1) I was standing at the endzone from which Delaware was pulling.
Delaware was offsides. Observers certainly didn't shaft anyone on
that call. If you want to put the blame on "wasting time" it should
be placed soundly on BOTH teams. More calls went to observers in this
game than I've seen in a long time and it was sometimes painful to
watch.

2) I don't quite get the poster who said "no one on the field knew
exactly when the hard cap was going to go off." From the same
position I was in, right after Maryland got the layout D to get the
turn I mentioned to the people I was watching with that Maryland
better hurry because the cap was going to go off. My phone said it
was 1:43. But I knew (from having looked about 2 minutes earlier and
having commented to one of the Maryland players who was standing near
us that they needed to hurry to avoid Hard Cap) that it was probably
closer to 1:44. Maryland swung the disc and few times and as was said
here previously scored literally seconds after the cap went on.

It sucks, and the rule probably should be re-written somehow. But the
main objective (I believe) is lets say the game continues. Maryland
scores the next goal as well (after a hard fought long point). Its
now tied and its 1:50pm. Maryland pulls and another hard fought point
goes on and either team wins and its now 1:56 (or whatever). The team
that just lost and just totally exhausted themselves in those final
points now has to play a rested team and in all likelihood can't get
their momentum going and gets crushed. I'm not saying the rule is
correct but if played without the cap its a disadvantage to the teams
that made the finals vs. the team coming through the back door.

Good luck to the Metro East teams at Natty's. And way to be Pitt, the
best team in the region they just can't seem to win. At least they'll
go to Nationals now and have a good shot of doing very well.

On Apr 28, 12:57 pm, Keith <KeithASt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Finch

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Apr 28, 2008, 5:29:20 PM4/28/08
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I think the rule for the hard cap is written fairly clear. The cap is
not applied until after the current point is complete, so the moment
during the point that the cap is blown does not matter. By
definition, "A hard time cap is the ending of the game once a
predetermined time of play has elapsed and after the current scoring
attempt is completed. If the score is tied, play continues until one
additional goal is scored. " For example, in this case the score was
13-11. Had the horn blown in the middle of the point and Maryland had
scored, the score would then be 13-12. Since the score was 13-12
after the predetermined time of play elapsed and the current point was
completed, the game would be over. If the horn had blown after
Maryland had caught the disc, the next point would already have
started so they would need to complete that point, thus giving
Maryland an opportunity to tie it.

From what I can tell, it does not seem that there is anywhere in the
rules which states that every game must have a hard cap. The rules
simply definite what a hard cap is. It seems to me that it could be
decided by the UPA ahead of time that the Championship Series games
could be structured to not have a hard cap, in which case the rule
could still exists for those tournaments in which time is an issue.

Finch

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Apr 28, 2008, 5:52:46 PM4/28/08
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> could still exists for those tournaments in which time is an issue.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I should clarify that I do not necessarily think that a game should
not be hard capped, just that as the rules are currently written there
does not seem to have to be one. One case for having a hard cap would
be in a situation where the game were not as close. For instance, if
the score were 14-5 when the hard cap goes off the game would end at
the conclusion of the point, regardless of which team scores. Without
a hard cap, if the team that was down made any kind of run (even just
2 or 3 points), both teams would have to potentially play well into
the next game or into any scheduled break. For any game except the
finals, this would be detrimental to both teams. A hard cap is also
beneficial in a close game on a windy day or a game with really tough
defense. If the game is 10-8 when the soft cap is applied, the game
would then be to 12. If the next point few points are highly
contested and are scored by the team that is down, the score could be
10-10 when the hard cap goes on, thus making it a game to 11. This
cuts out 2 additional points which could easily add an additional 15
or more minutes to a game.

Mike Gerics

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Apr 28, 2008, 6:11:06 PM4/28/08
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"A hard time cap is the ending of the game once a
predetermined time of play has elapsed and after the current scoring
attempt is completed. If the score is tied, play continues until one
additional goal is scored. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---above...is WHY that rule is horrible!
i mean....the definition makes it the worst rule in ultimate.
end a game with a goal and lose? impossible....shouldn't happen....ever.


william...@gmail.com

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Apr 28, 2008, 6:15:56 PM4/28/08
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Yes. Rob is #21. http://www.pitt.edu/~sorc/frisbee/roster/players/Dulabon_Robert.html
-Brody


> Is Rob #21?- Hide quoted text -


saml...@yahoo.com

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Apr 28, 2008, 6:26:23 PM4/28/08
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have to throw in my two cents...

The rule, as applied to end the Maryland/Delaware, game would be fine
by me... IF games of such importance were played with an official
scoreboard/timeclock easily visible to the players on the field.

However, since that is almost never going to be the case in the
foreseeable future for ultimate, the rule desperately needs to be
changed. A game should never end the way the Metro East championship
ended. That was horrible from a spectator's perspective... and was no
doubt a brutal ending for Maryland.

Without a legitimately visible game clock, a game should never end
DURING a point.


On Apr 28, 6:15 pm, williambrot...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes. Rob is #21.http://www.pitt.edu/~sorc/frisbee/roster/players/Dulabon_Robert.html

TrackStar

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Apr 28, 2008, 7:45:00 PM4/28/08
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On Apr 28, 5:16 pm, Tim <tim.johnso...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1) I was standing at the endzone from which Delaware was pulling.
> Delaware was offsides. Observers certainly didn't shaft anyone on
> that call. If you want to put the blame on "wasting time" it should
> be placed soundly on BOTH teams. More calls went to observers in this
> game than I've seen in a long time and it was sometimes painful to
> watch.
>


I really don't think you can call any action by either team "wasting
time". Okay, if Del had hucked it straight out of bounds 70 yards
(remember, no changing discs in a point) when they knew there were 30
seconds left then that would be wasting time. However, no one but
the TD had a clue it was so close to being over, which is the HUGE
issue with ending a game based on time. And no, I really don't think
it's Maryland's fault for not knowing how much time was left when they
were not given a way to know or ask how much time remained. What
happened was exactly what the UPA says should happen in this
situation, and that is the real problem here.


Bob Koca

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Apr 28, 2008, 7:58:55 PM4/28/08
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On Apr 28, 7:45 pm, TrackStar <mjk...@psu.edu> wrote:
>  And no, I really don't think
> it's Maryland's fault for not knowing how much time was left when they
> were not given a way to know or ask how much time remained.  What
> happened was exactly what the UPA says should happen in this
> situation, and that is the real problem here.

No one on Maryland owns a watch? After the first cap horn just
start your timer and you know.

Bob Koca

Finch

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Apr 28, 2008, 8:13:32 PM4/28/08
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The difficulty with this is that the exact time matters. In a game
with observers, why should the responsiblity of knowing the exact time
be on the players, particularly since the clock is not managed by
either team? It seems like it would be highly beneficial to have an
observer signal the amount of time left. Even if Maryland had kept
track following the horn, once the disc was in play, they had no way
of knowing precisely how much time was remaining. Had one observer
announced that there were 20 seconds remaing, 10 seconds, and so on
they could have thrown the pass earlier or attempted to score
earlier. The timing of this was so close that the Maryland player
could even have attempted a bid earlier instead of running under the
disc had he known that the cap was going on.

Bob Koca

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Apr 28, 2008, 8:46:31 PM4/28/08
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Agree that there should have been some official notification.

A rules amendment could be that the result of the last pass should
stand (similar to basketball where a shot counts if it was released
before clock goes off). Or even perhaps that the possession is
completed.

Bob Koca

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Apr 28, 2008, 9:50:58 PM4/28/08
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> "hard cap" is the dumbest shit ever created.
> "hard cap" should never be used....ever.
> "hard cap" should be abolished...forever.
>

> or someone explain how and when 'hard cap' is a good idea.


I second that, hard cap is a horrible rule that should rarely if ever
be used in tournaments.

Someone earlier said it and is right, there's no point in even
continuing the point if you are down 2 and mid-point when the horn
sounds. Might as well rest for your next game...

Jared Smith

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Apr 28, 2008, 9:54:54 PM4/28/08
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The hardcap is totally understandable for pool play during a nice mid-
season tournament. Nobody wants to get too off track. However hardcap
during the finals to go to Nationals?! You're just inviting RSD
speculation with that crap!!!

Sean

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Apr 28, 2008, 11:15:10 PM4/28/08
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funk yeah delaware!!! fear the clown song!

Sean

On Apr 28, 7:58 pm, Bob Koca <bob_k...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mark Webb

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Apr 29, 2008, 2:53:20 PM4/29/08
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* asterisks *

lieber...@gmail.com

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Apr 30, 2008, 8:57:44 AM4/30/08
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it seems that there is unilateral feeling that the hard cap rule sucks
and is detrimental to the overall competitiveness of the game for the
many reasons stated in this thread, especially in such a significant
college series tournament.

my question is whether these hard cap rules are handed down from the
upa to the coordinators, or whether they're up to the coordinators'
discretion as in regular season tournaments. if it's the former, the
upa needs to be petitioned for a rule change. like now. before
natty's.

Message has been deleted

Knappy

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Apr 30, 2008, 9:31:32 AM4/30/08
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Not sure if this would've affected the game, and I am not saying that
it's a solution to the hard cap issue.....but I am a big fan of the
+1, 20 minute soft cap (NOT +2).

When the soft cap horn blows, play out the current point and then add
1 to highest score. And there has to be a minimum of 20 minutes
between soft & hard cap.

TD's & UPA should make this the default. +2/20 minutes is just asking
for a hard cap resolution, especially in a regional college open final
where there is a high % chance of lots of calls & stoppages of play.

I know Dave runs great tournaments, and is way more experienced than
me in these matters, so no blame should be placed on the TD here. He
does an awesome job.

Knappy

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