DOUBLE ELIMINATION @ REGIONALS BLOWS
Mr. Maddog
feel that the bracket play style tournys suck. Instead of trying to
beat a #3 or #2 seed or both we have to beat Standford Then Oregon
Then Santa Cruz on Sat to even PLAY on Sunday!! I want to play on
sunday, this is the last tourny of the year and the fact is we
probably will be done in one day. Do we get to pay less if we only
play three games? What about PLU? they drive 15 hours to play one
day(hopefully they win it all)? My rookie year we won the beer
bracket at regies and it was a great experience for me I got play time
against Regional caliber teams. Not only that but there are tons of
regional rivalries (Humboldt vs Davis, Humboldt vs O state, ect.) that
may never pan out. Long story short Pool play is better for Ultimate
PERIOD.
College series sucks Cultimate should do the series starting...this
weekend!
Mr. Madddog
luketim...@gmail.com
parity. There simply needs to be more placement games added on
Saturday afternoon and then on Sunday morning. Nothing should prevent
a simple addition of placement games..
Handy
"Beer Bracket at regionals" ? I think you're missing the point of the
series... Do you think that the Wizards are pissed right now that
they're getting spanked by LeBron and they'll be watching the rest of
the playoffs. But hey, to play in the next round they'd have to beat
them and then probably the Celtics, no fair! The point of regionals
is to select the teams going to nationals, secondarily the motive is
to place the other teams (which I'm sure you can organize or ask the
TD to organize) and last, if at all, to satisfy your desire for
"regional rivalries."
-Handy
kevinyo...@gmail.com
Alex Peters
http://www.upa.org/scores/tourn.cgi?div=127&id=4964
Powderkeg
just be thankful you're not on the other side of the bracket ... then
you would've had to play UBC...
:)
Keith
either but I loved the bracket play cause I wanted to know what the
best teams were doing to be the best teams. Basically, I took Sundays
at regionals to watch good ultimate. I understand the paying the
tourney fee, the travel, etc etc but damn seems like you get to go to
a tourney, play a few games, and then watch nationals quarterfinals
type games without having to travel to Boulder. Region rivalries
aren't all that either. I would bet you that UVA doesn't really want
to play W&M for a ninth time this year in a game for 12th at
regionals. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd rather watch the game to go and
learn something from those two teams.
KS
On Apr 22, 1:11 pm, kevinyoshim...@gmail.com wrote:
> a
ultimate7
own travel to games and when they aren't college students trying to
get by. And when they play all their competitions on weekends in
tournament style.
Handy
> This will be a great analogy when NBA players start paying for their
> own travel to games and when they aren't college students trying to
> get by. And when they play all their competitions on weekends in
> tournament style.
OK, refer to after that:
> > The point of regionals
> > is to select the teams going to nationals, secondarily the motive is
> > to place the other teams (which I'm sure you can organize or ask the
> > TD to organize) and last, if at all, to satisfy your desire for
> > "regional rivalries."
If you don't like paying for your own travel and are having trouble
"getting by" then raise more money during the year or don't go. If
you don't feel like the tournament is offering you enough and you
don't have a chance then find somewhere else to play or don't go. If
you don't want to play on the weekends, just flat out don't go.
Getting the theme here?
dsb
Ah, the 'well if you don't like it then fuck off' strategy. Very
nice.
Appealing for change isn't a permitted option then? Especially
considering the relatively reasonable request for lower seeds to get
more quality play out of a weekend especially considering they are
paying the same amount to be there as the higher seeds.
It really isn't quite as simple as to select the teams that go to
nationals - the upa series is not strong enough to focus just on the
technical crowning of the division winners... if that was the case
wouldn't nationals just be bracket play as well?
dusty
What is the goal of regionals?
1. More games?
2. Or the team best prepared to win nationals to win regionals?
I choose #2. Your choice may vary, but realize it is a nuanced
choice, not a black and white choice.
Stop shouting/bitching and start problem solving. Campaign. Explain
to someone who cares (which, for those of you too unaware to keep
track, is NOT rsd) why you should go with pool play. Become a
Regional Coordinator. Do something to get what you want. I imagine
that you can tell by the responses that posting here is not the
something that you're looking for.
Maybe you want to organize some ultimate to play on Sunday since
you're convinced you won't be playing. I'll help: Does anyone have
pickup listings for wherever NW college regionals are? Does anyone
know of a place where someone could find a bunch of ultimate players
without any games on Sunday wherever NW college regionals are?
If you ask me (not that you should), any format that takes itself
seriously should not have more than 3 games in a day. More than that
is not the format we use to determine a champion at Nationals and
should not be used to determine who gets to play to determine a
champion at Nationals.
Oh, and rivalries do not "never pan out." They happen (as opposed to
"are planned) when great teams play each other with something on the
line. If you continue bitching about having to play Team X (in your
post, represented by your fear of the not only the Slugs, but also Ego
and Bloodthirsty fer crissakes) you may never be part of a rivalry.
music on tap: leo kottke, "bean time"
dusty.rhodes
at gmail.com
Bulb
> On Apr 22, 11:34 am, Handy <Jack.Han...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 22, 11:03 am, ultimate7 <ultima...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > This will be a great analogy when NBA players start paying for their
> > > own travel to games and when they aren't college students trying to
> > > get by. And when they play all their competitions on weekends in
> > > tournament style.
>
> > OK, refer to after that:
>
> > > > The point of regionals
> > > > is to select the teams going to nationals, secondarily the motive is
> > > > to place the other teams (which I'm sure you can organize or ask the
> > > > TD to organize) and last, if at all, to satisfy your desire for
> > > > "regional rivalries."
>
> > If you don't like paying for your own travel and are having trouble
> > "getting by" then raise more money during the year or don't go. If
> > you don't feel like the tournament is offering you enough and you
> > don't have a chance then find somewhere else to play or don't go. If
> > you don't want to play on the weekends, just flat out don't go.
> > Getting the theme here?
>
> Ah, the 'well if you don't like it then fuck off' strategy. Very
> nice.
If you don't like it, you can geeeeeeet out!
richarda...@gmail.com
> "getting by" then raise more money during the year or don't go. If
> you don't feel like the tournament is offering you enough and you
> don't have a chance then find somewhere else to play or don't go. If
> you don't want to play on the weekends, just flat out don't go.
> Getting the theme here?
Nationals, which ostensibly has the primary point of selecting a
national champion, takes three days, has a crapload of games (pool,
bracket, and placement) and is worth every penny to go. Not because
it so efficiently selects the champion, but because it is a good
tournament and a good event. Cultimate tournaments tend to be the
same way.
Bracket-format regionals make for bad tournaments and events because
they're not worth a big expense to go and play a couple games and
watch the same teams you see at every tournament. It's not about
being whiny. It's about poorly designed tournaments that don't need
to be poorly designed.
Also, call up your local regionals coordinator and ask them how much
they want teams to drop at the last minute because they picked up on
your inane theme.
d von
past years. Not enough good competition? no matter what format the
best teams in their region are going to take the bids so why screw
over the rest of the teams there? Why now are you insisting on
"weeding out" teams that have no aspirations of going to nationals?
The regionals tournament is more than just a stepping stone on the
"road to natties." For some teams it might be, maybe the top 2-5 teams
in the region. For the majority of teams though, is for them to peak
and play their best tournament of the season, even if that means
winning only one or two games in sunday consolation. Regionals is the
tournament where players get to remember all the cool plays they made
because it was the final test of the season, that includes the game-to-
go to nationals or the 15/16 game sunday evening. Teams play FOR
regionals.
It seems to me that people are viewing this mostly from the viewpoint
of the top 1/4 of teams playing at regional tournaments. Sure, they
need to prove that they are legit teams. Pool play accomodates for
this I believe while not alienating the rest of the teams that
QUALIFIED to PLAY at regionals all weekend.
Like it was said earlier, as much as we would all love to be
professsional athletes...we are not. This is college ultimate, a
community sport. NOT an entertainment profession where having the
absolute most exciting matchups for every game is the importance.
I know I'm going to play my hardest this weekend bracket or no
bracket, but I feel for those teams who it is getting harder and
harder to compete. Teams that don't have as big of rosters, can't
afford to drive two states away for potentially one day of ultimate. I
just feel like we are excluding more and more teams from the good
competition with stuff like this and huge college tournaments that
require expensive travel costs. This issue makes me look at the state
of college ultimate for all teams. When did we stop trying to
encourage more and more teams to get created and start this hierarchy
of adapting the college to division around those top 15-25 teams in
the country? Let's just check ourselves for a moment and make sure we
are making these changes with the college ultiamte community and
promotion of the sport foremost in our minds. You can play club your
whole life, college ultimate is different.
good luck in davis this weekend, I'll see you guys there
d von
DIRT #29
On Apr 22, 11:34 am, Handy <Jack.Han...@gmail.com> wrote:
Handy
I absolutely think that appealing for a change is something
worthwhile, but a whiny RSD post is never going to affect any change,
never has, never will. As for more quality play, they have 4 games to
determine exactly where they stand in the region, what more do you
want? I didn't suggest that regionals are
> quite as simple as to select the teams that go to nationals
but that is certainly the primary goal of the event. The secondary
goal, is to place the other teams (as I said in both posts). This
tournament format does that. If you want a different format ask the
RD or contact Oregon State or whatever "rivalry team" you want to face
off against. Situation solved. But it's not the UPA's responsibility
at Regionals to make sure that every team has a great time playing
against all the other teams, rather it is their responsibility to make
sure that the teams are placed for nationals and otherwise.
As a side note, I never played on Sunday at regionals in college, but
going on Sunday just to watch resulted in some of my favorite memories
in ultimate. Watching Zip's Brown team, rooting for ZooDisc against
BMo in the game to go, watching that EPIC game between Tufts and
Dartmouth... there's no conso game against any team that I would trade
for how exciting those games were. Also being able to see those
games, especially as a young'un, was what fueled my love of the sport
and helped me develop the affinity I have for the NE come Nationals,
even if I live in the Bay now.
-Handy
ElCic...@gmail.com
regionals?
Also, my biggest pet peeve about bracket play is the emphasis and
importance of seedings, which are fairly arbitrary to begin with.
It's not like Ultimate has a regular season with clear-cut records.
Heck, majority of teams in each region have only played a handful of
other inter-region teams; how are you suppose to create an accurate
1-16 seeds based off of the RRI from a few tournaments played during
the season and sectionals?
Handy
If you're going to make it to nationals you have to beat the best
teams there anyway. Doesn't matter where you start, chances are
you're going to be playing the same teams towards the end. Is the
seeding issue any worse here than in the supposed "pool of death" that
always occurs in pool play?
Also, I wasn't suggesting those games don't happen in pool play, my
point there was amount of games for a team that has no chance at
competing at the higher level, so those games certainly would happen
either way.
-Handy
Mr. Maddog
First of all the buds are better than all but two teams in the NBA
Eastern conference. But I would rather play ultimate than watch it.
And i am a poor ass college student, if my team pay we want to play we
have rookies that want to play. And we have a bunch of fifth years
and people graduating, it way fucking better to play on sunday than to
watch!
Handy
You and I commonly don't agree, however,
> First of all the buds are better than all but two teams in the NBA
> Eastern conference.
Yes.
Daag Alemayehu
> I absolutely think that appealing for a change is something
> worthwhile, but a whiny RSD post is never going to affect any change,
> never has, never will.
I dunno if I'd agree with you there, Handy. Especially recently, rsd
seems to be a place for people to get on their soapbox (or "whine")
and protest something for all their fellow ultimate players to hear.
Some causes are annoying and are ignored or jeered (Frank's dischoops,
or anything else by Frank really). Some garner mild support, or at
least sparks debate, which may eventually lead to change (refs versus
observers versus self-officiation). Some causes would never have been
known to the general ultimate playing public, and without rsd they may
have never received the kind of support or attention they needed to
get the kind of results that were necessary (Rutgers).
Besides, I'll take whiny posts about regionals formats over fake Nike
shoe spam anyday. =)
Ryan Thompson
dude
Then win on Saturday! Problem solved
benlw...@gmail.com
> better to play on sunday than to
> watch!
The RC for the NW Open division told me that most (85%?) of the teams
voted for the bracket format. So, the teams have spoken and we (the
teams that wanted pool play...PLU, Western, UW, Humboldt, etc) are
outvoted. I guess I am just assuming that BYU voted for the brackets,
given their situation.
That's all there is to it, then...we are in the bracket format and it
isn't changing. Maybe the teams that get knocked out should meet and
discuss the option of playing some Sunday games...they should have
fields reserved at UC Davis, right (since the didn't know beforehand
that brackets would be the format, there should be enough fields left
over that would have been used in the pool play option).
See you in Davis,
blw
Western
mkt
Yes, this thread can be seen as a part of one of the better ones that
we've had in recent days: brackets vs pool play, and what is the
purpose of Regionals. I think that's an important discussion, and
this thread is a part of it, soapboxy though it may be.
--MKT
Will
going for bracket play - the tourney is in their backyard - but what
traveling teams voted not to play games on Sunday? I can't imagine
Gonzaga, Lewis and Clark, Oregon State, etc voting for one day of
ultimate.
Who voted for what?
Will
PLU
pand...@gmail.com
> On Apr 22, 1:50 pm, benlwigg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > The RC for the NW Open division told me that most (85%?) of the teams
> > voted for the bracket format.
So, Matt West is claiming that 13.6 teams from the NW region "voted"
for bracket play?
Here is what he sent out:
"FORMAT :: I am wondering what it would be like to do bracket play
instead of pool play, but please give me your thoughts."
The RC did give us the option to voice our opinions, however there was
no vote for "yes, bracket play" or "no, please." To me it sounded as
though he was toying with the idea of bracket play; so, if the best
teams in our region were the only ones together enough to voice their
opinions, then so be it. My feeling is that teams that generally got
seeded low got what they deserved (based upon their team's record that
year), however I think it is absolutely ridiculous to charge these
teams almost $300 and only guaranteeing 3 games (if everyone holds
seed). Either lowering the cost or devising an "alternate" Sunday
bracket both seem like adequate solutions, but so does simple pool
play.
BHD
The NCAA tournament a.k.a march madness uses SINGLE elimination
bracket play. Just think if regionals was like that, man that would
suck. Regardless of whether or not you want to see refs/observers
implemented or not I would say that most people would like Ultimate to
get more recognition and respect from non-players ( I may be wrong).
If so maybe we should adopt the March Madness format (you could argue
that it is the most popular playoff format in the US).
If your not going to be playing on Sunday maybe you could talk to the
RC or TD and ask if it would be OK to create a B bracket or
Chumpionship bracket just for fun. If they have field space they might
let you do it. If you run it well it might lead to some teams
considering your invitation to your new tournament next year. If the
RC won't let you do it at least float the idea and then go find some
pickup.
If you think your not going to be playing on Sunday maybe you should
just not make that super expensive trip to start with, there is
obviously no point in you wasting your time there since you have no
chance. Even better, let some team that just missed regionals and has
some hope/pride/hubris/desire to be an underdog go.
Watching the best teams on Sunday WILL teach you things.
I think that one of the best things about ultimate is the ability of
everyday players to get involved and make a difference. Whether that
is starting a new college team, creating a scholarship for you alma
mater, or just maybe getting the RC to let you run a chumpionship
bracket on Sunday.
Alex Peters
that teams won't even want to play come game time, or will give half-
hearted efforts at best.
Daag Alemayehu
> a few thoughts.......
>
> The NCAA tournament a.k.a march madness uses SINGLE elimination
> bracket play. Just think if regionals was like that, man that would
> suck. Regardless of whether or not you want to see refs/observers
> implemented or not I would say that most people would like Ultimate to
> get more recognition and respect from non-players ( I may be wrong).
> If so maybe we should adopt the March Madness format (you could argue
> that it is the most popular playoff format in the US).
Until college ultimate is 100% expense-free for the players (uniforms,
equipment, travel costs, housing, food, etc.), this will never
happen. And even then...
saxy...@hotmail.com
cents worth....
The nationals we have here are obviously designed for those who win
their regionals (no sarcastic 'really?'s please), but for those who
didn't make it, there's a "not-the-nationals" for the remainder of the
teams who didn't make it thus far
I have abolutely no idea how feasible it is to organise a tournament
of a size which caters for the number of teams you guys put out, but
maybe a 'not the nationals' would be the way forward...
Adam
ben.d...@gmail.com
college. The series tourneys were the culmination of our effort as a
team, and I'll never forget the exhiliration of upsets at regionals in
bracket play. I'll also never forget the washed out feeling after
being eliminated. The last thing I wanted to do was play another game
against a team that also had no shot at nationals. All we wanted to
do was enjoy our last moments as teammates for that season. Also, to
echo Keith, watching the semis and finals was awesome. That was our
mentality, and I know teams view this issue in different ways. My
suggestion would be not to have scheduled placement games but provide
field space for teams that do want to scrimmage after they're
eliminated.
Also, brackets are the way to go. For the top seeds, they don't have
to wade through much cannon fodder to get where they belong. For
lower seeds, the opportunity to stage a monumental upset provides
awesome anticipation leading up to the weekend. Besides, with double
elimination if you get spanked by the one seed, you're well rested for
your shot at the nine seed.
The only prob with brackets is the issue of parity. The AC is the
best example this year. The 1-5 seeds all have a good chance, and if
ya come out sluggish as the 4 or 5 seed, the 12 or 13 seed could beat
you and make the road to nats a tough one. Yet this problem isn't
solved by pool play because with the talent level, you've got to bring
it for all your saturday games anyway.
The regionals format should be geared to find the best teams with as
few games as possible. The bottom seeds desiring more games is not a
reason to switch to pool play. If ya want more games, go to more
tournaments.
Ben Dieter
ECU Irate '01-'05
benlw...@gmail.com
Good points.
What's the farthest you ever drove to go to Regionals?
Handy
way it's set up right now. Example, Brigham Young, the 16 seed:
They lose game "a"
lose game "p"
lose game "dd"
lose game "gg"
pool play would promise you only 1 more game, which many teams may not
even want to play. Half of the conso games we played ended up
actually just being us and another team getting drunk, not actually
playing, and watching the other games. If you lose a close battle and
are out, the last thing in the world you want to slash it out for the
13th spot in the region, (woohoo!) If you really want one more game,
email some teams or go talk to them before the games start and work
out the one game, there will be fields, and if 15% voted to have pool
play, I'm sure you can find other people in the same boat as you, no?
People are making this a WAY bigger deal than it is...
-Handy
Daag Alemayehu
> Ugh, established placement games at regionals would have sucked in
> college. The series tourneys were the culmination of our effort as a
> team, and I'll never forget the exhiliration of upsets at regionals in
> bracket play. I'll also never forget the washed out feeling after
> being eliminated. The last thing I wanted to do was play another game
> against a team that also had no shot at nationals. All we wanted to
> do was enjoy our last moments as teammates for that season. Also, to
Amen to that, Ben. I can't think of any scenario in which I'd want to
play in a placement game at regionals. It's a completely different
beast than placement games at regular season tournaments or even
placement games at nationals.
But, in my opinion, that's just one more argument in favor of pool
play over double-elim bracket play. With bracket play you are
guaranteed 2 games plus however many meaningless games. Like other
posters have already said, those games are often not even played
because nobody wants to play after they've been eliminated. So really
it's hard to say you have any more than 2 games.
With pool play, of course, you have at least 3 guaranteed games, plus
however many single-elim bracket games the schedule calls for.
Ideally this would guarantee everyone at least 4 games total (if, for
example, you went from pool play directly into pre-quarters).
DK21
Pool play.
A bracket format crowns a champion in 4 games (3 on sat, 1 on sun). A
team with 5-7 ballers but no depth or endurance could easily win
regionals in the bracket format (especially since they won't even get
a tough opponent for the first 1-3 rounds, depending on the region and
seeding), but then by the 5th game at nationals be completely
exhausted and fail to perform for their region, whereas the team they
squeeked by at universe point at regionals with depth/endurance/talent
could have made it much deeper into the tournament (strength bid
anybody?). The pool play format crowns a champion in 6-7 games
(usually 4 sat, 2-3 sun). Even this format is not going to be as
demanding as nationals (where most/all the games are against tough
competition), but it's certainly more demanding than the bracket
format.
Which format is consistent with the rest of the series? Pool play.
Nationals uses a pool play format. Sectionals is usually a pool play
format. Why should regionals be any different? If you are going to
argue for a straight up (single elim even) bracket at regionals, or
use examples from other sports (NCAA or whatever), then you should
also be arguing that the nationals format should be brackets (single
elim even) too.
Which format allows the mid-low range team to watch semis and finals?
Pool play.
In Brackets, the semis happen on Saturday when many mid-low range
teams are still playing meaningful games for the 2nd/3rd bid, so only
the bottom of the barrel teams (that lose in 2 games) are available to
watch semis. In pool play, semis happen on Sunday after quarterfinals
(where all but 4-8 teams are eliminated, depending on # of bids). In
both formats, finals and backdoor games are quite watchable by the
rest of the teams.
Which format gives more meaningful games to all teams? Pool play, of
course.
Which teams should want brackets? A qualified, hypothetical minority.
1. Arguably those few mid-range teams with no depth/endurance, since
1 upset can send a team to nationals w/ the right number of bids, and
the opportunities to upset the top teams come sooner (so your less
endurant, less deep, less talented team will still have the legs to
have an outside chance to earn a bid that you will then procede to
squander for your region at the much tougher tournament that follows).
2. Arguably the 1-2 team(s) in the tournament, where applicable, who
are so much better than the rest of the teams that their nationals
bids are basically guaranteed... so they'd rather only have to play
4-5 games instead of 6-7 games and call it a weekend. (This scenario
is not the case in many regions... even in the central with the
defending national champs there are at least 3 very strong teams
competing for 2 bids... so there's no overly safe bets).
Which teams should prefer pool play formats? The vast majority.
1. The deepest, most endurant, and most talented teams, as come semis/
finals they are in better shape than their opponents (as they will be
at nationals).
2. The bottom 8 teams in the tournament (no shot at nationals in
either case, but in pool play they get to play more 5(+) meaningful
games before it's time to watch semis, whereas in brackets they only
get to play 2-3 meaningful games before they turn into spectators for
finals).
3. The middle range teams with depth/endurance or an interest in
playing more than 3-4 games.
But despite all my ambivalence towards the issue, I should mention
here that I think regionals should employ a pool play format unless
there are extenuating circumstances (like if the RC's team lacks
endurance/depth but has some great top talent).
Mike Gerics
...as a college player, i loved double elimination....because i think that
in 5 years at regionals.....the teams i was on played ONLY 4 games(wins) 4
of the years.....and one of the years, we lost one game and won 4.
so.....the double elimination worked well for our teams.....because we never
failed to advance to nationals!
as a non college player and Tournament Director who is very fond of giving
everyone tons of games and making a trip worth their while.....i say, give
them more games! ...or at least asure teams more than ONLY 2 games.
.....if there are 16 teams in a double elimination bracket...how many teams
are eliminated after 2 rounds?
is it 8 teams?
if so...that's perfect for a quarters/8 team bracket.
someone that can figure...how many teams in a 16 team double elimination
bracket are DONE after 2 rounds.
after we figure that......figure what the best format to give those teams a
few more games would be....
rk
> Pool play.
> In Brackets, the semis happen on Saturday when many mid-low range
> teams are still playing meaningful games for the 2nd/3rd bid, so only
> the bottom of the barrel teams (that lose in 2 games) are available to
> watch semis. In pool play, semis happen on Sunday after quarterfinals
> (where all but 4-8 teams are eliminated, depending on # of bids). In
> both formats, finals and backdoor games are quite watchable by the
> rest of the teams.
This is all very nice, but I'm not sure what pool play you are talking
about. The alternative to double elimination bracket play is Format
16.2.2 (pool play, 2 teams advance). In this format pool winners go
straight to semifinals in the fourth round on Saturday. There is no
quarterfinals, except in the backdoor bracket, where the 2s play the
3s.
Handy
Then why did 85% of the teams in the NW vote for bracket play? Why
will the Metroeast be employing bracket play as well?
I'm not saying your reasoning is wrong, although I don't agree with
all of it, but if you're right and pool play is so much better, then
why aren't all teams going for it? Do most teams "lack endurance/
depth but have great top talent?" Also, you suggest that those short
staffed teams will be gassed by 5th game at nationals, did you see
Florida at Centex? They played a TIGHT rotation and you may not have
heard but by game 5 they were doing pretty well...
-Handy
DK21
and pool play would allow most teams to watch finals and backdoor
finals (so there's not much of an argument either way on that
point)... at least in most of the formats (16 teams 2 advance for
example).
As for Florida... those dudes are in excellent shape and have
endurance/talent to spare. Of all the teams in the nation, I'd think
they most of all would want a long, grueling weekend for regionals, as
they're the most likely to come out on top (you wouldn't think so
looking at their rotation, but their results at the toughest
tournament in the nation, Centex, speak for themselves). Also,
Florida is probably gonna cream with their top talent in the early
rounds (pool play or brackets), so 1-2 more games effects them much
less than the mid-range teams (and they earn that... both by winning
sectionals for top seeding and by winning games efficiently).
And the great thing is that since nationals runs a pool play format,
with plenty of tough games... the team that rises to the top of the
tough regional tournament is most likely to perform well at nationals
too... maybe even adding another bid for the region in 2009.
I suppose the majority of teams (at least compared to the very top
teams) are lacking in endurance and top talent (vs. the top teams
anyway), so maybe it does make sense that the majority would vote for
brackets in order to have a better shot at securing a bid through a
lucky upset. Of course, when the bulk of those teams have their
dreams crushed on Saturday and barely even got the chance to give
their bottom half any PT (akward! I mean it's one thing to spend the
tournament on the bench when your top half is winning...), they might
have been wishing they'd have had a few more games... which would let
them give their young guys more big-game (important game) experience
and leave them feeling better about the regional tournament (and want
to return the next year), and probably with a better team.
So maybe it's a lack of foresight. Or maybe it's delusions of
grandeur. Or perhaps the Northwest is somewhat of an exception since
they seem to have a LOT of teams that could conceivably finish in the
top 2 at regionals (and they're all thinking "wouldn't it be great if
we only had to win those 4 games to qualify?"). The fact is that only
2 teams will come out of the bracket format happy, and maybe not the
best 2 teams suited for a much tougher nationals. Would pool play
solve this problem? Not necessarily, since even pool play at
regionals isn't as tough as nationals, but it would test teams a bit
more, and those who don't win out have the "consolation" that they
played as many meaningful games as the UPA could give them before
heading home.
DK21
bids awarded to sections for bids to regionals, at least in the open
division (I know in many women's regions it still doesn't matter cuz
pretty much every team that wants to go to regionals gets to...
although I'm sure that's not true for the biggest couple)
Most regions have a significant number of teams eliminated at the
sectional level these days... and there seems to be less turnover and
more established mid-range programs than there used to be... and
getting to go to regionals is a big deal for some teams, a goal even
(those on that cusp especially... I'm guessing that St. Olaf in the
central, for example, would love to be going to regionals this year).
If there were strength bids in play at regionals, teams would have
very meaningful reasons to playout those consolation games even after
nationals wasn't a possibility anymore. This would actually be a big
improvement over either the bracket or pool play format for those
teams... in theory some teams would have 7(+?) very meaningful games
instead of 2-4... and that without sacrificing the integrity of the
competition for nationals (whether through the pool play or bracket
play format... though I'd still of course maintain pool play is the
better gauge of which team most deserves to go on).
Just an (unoriginal) thought.
ben.d...@gmail.com
Mr. Maddog
IF you get eliminated on sat. just pay half the tourny fee and spend
the rest on kegs have the sweetest regis party ever and just play on
sunday!
MD