> As I see it, Cultimate would like provide a large number of > tournaments across the nation that have a mantle of legitimacy. These > tournaments will be divided into C1 and normal brackets, and being > large tournaments, can provide more amenities than the casual, student > run tournaments. The top teams attend because they have the > opportunity to play other top teams (not to mention the subsidized > bids / uniforms), and the normal teams attend because the tournament > is more official and better run than any of the area tournaments.
> The UPA sectionals / regionals / nationals system isn't conducive to > the development of commercialized ultimate because running a > tournament with 16 or 32 teams well isn't worth the bid money, so > Cultimate has nowhere to grow while the current system is in place. > Their system seems like it could be an improvement for competitive > ultimate, but I think it would poach teams from the area tournaments > that college programs run as fundraisers, thus compromising the > financial security of many of the teams it would like paying the > entrance fees for its tournaments.
> As a college player, I really hope that the UPA / Cultimate conflict > resolves and we are not left with multiple, delegitimized national > series in the end.
Western? is that Western washington? and UBC in my opinion has a better case of being in the northwest over some of those teams. There are some other teams on the list of "top twenty five" that I don't get. Brown? another team. I'm not against these teams in particular but I don't get how the teams where chosen. I deffinitly think it's an interesting idea. If this makes ultimate a "real sport" than like all other "real sports" goodbye to the underdog. Look at college football and basketball. All of the top talent go to a few schools. Yes in march madness you have the cindarella story but they are usually not a real contender for the national championship. So I guess this means more championships for Wisconsin and Florida. The best youth players will now want to go where the "real" championship is played. and they aren't going to get there by going to a smaller school and trying to help the small school build it's program. The small school doesn't even have a chance. Still an interesting idea though.
Conference 1 is an absolutely necessary and remarkable step for Ultimate. Congratulations to Cultimate, specifically Skip and Cyle, for being the revolutionary leader of one biggest and most significant steps Ultimate has ever taken. Ever since I started playing Ultimate 5 years ago it has been extremely frustrating to see Ultimate in such a state of relative stagnation. I almost always get the same general response when I tell people I play Ultiamte, “What’s that?” or “Oh, that game where you throw the frisbee at a basket?”. As a player who takes significant pride in increasing athletic ability and pushing myself to my limits it is so frustrating that the awareness of what Ultimate truly is has not come anywhere close to its potential. I spend literally 3 hours in the gym everyday and I eat 4800 calories a day, sticking to a strict diet of 8 meals a day all to become the best player I can possibly be. Conference 1 is the answer to the serious athlete’s prayers for higher quality Ultimate. Conference 1 sets the new generation of Ultimate apart. Conference 1 dramatically increases the sport’s legitimacy and potential for growth.
For the school’s that were left out of the initial selection, it should only serve as fuel for their improvement. I think it is within all possibility for the establishment for a Conference 2 as the success of Conference 1 skyrockets.
We, as a Ultimate community, are now so much closer to becoming a legitimate sport. We can now attract more athletes and there is no limit to the level of play that will follow. There will always be pick- up Ultimate around the country, people will still find Ultimate in the same sorts that many of us did. The only difference is that now there is a clear, definite, stable, legitimate, and efficient establishment set in place that will promote the growth and furthering of the game in a totally new way.
Cultimate has already proven its abilities is setting up and running the best tournaments. There is absolutely no authentic reason not to trust that they will only that that to the next level with the expansion of their program.
Thank you Cultimate. Thank you Conference 1. Thank you Cyle. Thank you Skip.
> Conference 1 is an absolutely necessary and remarkable step for > Ultimate. Congratulations to Cultimate, specifically Skip and Cyle, > for being the revolutionary leader of one biggest and most significant > steps Ultimate has ever taken. Ever since I started playing Ultimate 5 > years ago it has been extremely frustrating to see Ultimate in such a > state of relative stagnation. I almost always get the same general > response when I tell people I play Ultiamte, “What’s that?” or “Oh, > that game where you throw the frisbee at a basket?”. As a player who > takes significant pride in increasing athletic ability and pushing > myself to my limits it is so frustrating that the awareness of what > Ultimate truly is has not come anywhere close to its potential. I > spend literally 3 hours in the gym everyday and I eat 4800 calories a > day, sticking to a strict diet of 8 meals a day all to become the best > player I can possibly be. Conference 1 is the answer to the serious > athlete’s prayers for higher quality Ultimate. Conference 1 sets the > new generation of Ultimate apart. Conference 1 dramatically increases > the sport’s legitimacy and potential for growth.
> For the school’s that were left out of the initial selection, it > should only serve as fuel for their improvement. I think it is within > all possibility for the establishment for a Conference 2 as the > success of Conference 1 skyrockets.
> We, as a Ultimate community, are now so much closer to becoming a > legitimate sport. We can now attract more athletes and there is no > limit to the level of play that will follow. There will always be pick- > up Ultimate around the country, people will still find Ultimate in the > same sorts that many of us did. The only difference is that now there > is a clear, definite, stable, legitimate, and efficient establishment > set in place that will promote the growth and furthering of the game > in a totally new way.
> Cultimate has already proven its abilities is setting up and running > the best tournaments. There is absolutely no authentic reason not to > trust that they will only that that to the next level with the > expansion of their program.
> Thank you Cultimate. Thank you Conference 1. Thank you Cyle. Thank you > Skip.
> Axl > 15 > Kansas Ultimate
besides the fact that you would be bitching just like every other team who didnt make it if kansas hadnt been chosen...what are you trying to say here "There is absolutely no authentic reason not to trust that they will only that that to the next level with the expansion of their program." -ps read about cyle stealing money from his team and then losing it all
also, kansas does not deserve to be there
agreed that ultimate needs to be changed.
not sure if cultimate should lead the charge, but even if this is unsuccessful (hopefully), the movement will have been made, and change will come more rapidly
I would think more than 1 team from outside of this elite group should be able to qualify. Having so many teams compete for 1 bid is absurd. How would it be proper to judge amongst Williams, LPC, Western Washington, USF, Cornell, Iowa etc... they play few games between each other and even with the 13 or so tournaments announced they aren't very likely to play against each other that much.
I like the idea if it has more qualifiers for nationals outside of C1.
> march madness you have the cindarella story but they are usually not a > real contender for the national championship.
...have absolutely no idea about how to implement it, but I wish cultimate COULD pull off something like the NCAA tournament. March Madness is possibly the most thrilling college sports event of the year; c'mon, how many people have filled out a bracket, guessed on upsets, and watched where their money went, and enjoyed it? and cinderellas DO get their due in the tournament, although they rarely take it ALL the way, but still beat the Floridas occasionally. AND there's usually a different champion every year.
still, have no idea how it would work, but it would give cultimate something better to do than ruin ultimate for everyone else.
Every year there are page after page of complaints on RSD about the fact that UPA College Nationals are not an accurate representation of of the top teams in college ultimate and that the UPA system of picking teams is clunky at best. I'm not ready to jump on board and say that this is the best system yet, but I am extremely interested to see how well Cultimate will deal with the complaints that are obviously going to arise. Historically the UPA has been unapologetically slow about changing the format or re-working its current system. If Conference 1 is in fact a success I think it will be in large part because it will have the ability, because of it's smaller structure, to change more quickly. No system is born perfect but and think another group competing against the UPA to make ultimate better is a good thing. Maybe this will make them understand that there is a very strong desire for a more competitive system.
> > march madness you have the cindarella story but they are usually not a > > real contender for the national championship.
> ...have absolutely no idea about how to implement it, but I wish > cultimate COULD pull off something like the NCAA tournament. March > Madness is possibly the most thrilling college sports event of the > year; c'mon, how many people have filled out a bracket, guessed on > upsets, and watched where their money went, and enjoyed it? and > cinderellas DO get their due in the tournament, although they rarely > take it ALL the way, but still beat the Floridas occasionally. AND > there's usually a different champion every year.
> still, have no idea how it would work, but it would give cultimate > something better to do than ruin ultimate for everyone else.
> pooner
Conference-1 would absolutely destroy many of the teams that aren't included in the competition. The mountain of effort put in by my team to recruit for our A-team, build our B-team, and to become the most competitive team we can be this year, would be absolutely crushed by an illegitimate nationals championship. Arizona didn't have an amazing 2008 season by luck; we set the team goal of becoming one of the best teams in the nation early in the Fall, and many on the team believed a National Championship was possible. We laid the foundation for our storybook season through week after week of intense practicing, track workouts, plyometrics and weightlifting. Like every other year, we learned from our mistakes last year, and have significantly changed this year's program and renewed our motivation in an effort to do better. I can't imagine other "non-elite" teams haven't experienced something similar, and I am incredibly honored whenever I meet players from those teams who are inspired by our underdog success. There are many such teams who are training harder than they ever have before to get a chance to play at the highest level. To deny ANY team the chance to compete Nationally would be a tremendous blow to any team's competitive spirit, resulting in a whole lot of really bad ultimate teams.
Not only will the 2009 season be thrown out the window to experimentation, but Conference-1 leaves our college season in the hands of a few people (who have a very large interest in money) rather than a democratically elected board. Exactly how much are Skip, Cyle and 5-Ultimate going to make if this goes through? Why should I entrust the future of college ultimate into two people's hands? Are the current elite teams all that matter in competitive college ultimate? Those "top" teams are the ones who stand to benefit from Conference-1, while any aspirations of other teams to become great turn into the impossible. One of the most attractive aspects of playing Ultimate is that any team has a shot through dedication and smart training - Arizona is proof of that. I have spent the last four years of my life with the help of many teammates and friends like Joe Kershner to build the most competitive ultimate team that I can with one holy grail in mind: to be the best. The personal sacrifices that were required by Arizona players in the past, let alone already in this off season are immeasurable. Conference-1 would not only be a completely illegitimate championship considering every team in the Nation doesn't have a chance to compete, but would shatter the hearts of players and teams like mine. Winning C-1, instead, would simply give that team a claim to "Being the best out of 25 teams that Skip and Cycle picked, plus one other one." Doesn't quite have the same ring to it as National Champions.
My initial reaction to Cultimate is mixed. Of course, the first reaction is WOW! What a bombshell.
It does bring up all kinds of questions and it will be interesting to see how the next several months play out in the negotiations between Cultimate and the UPA. I think there is a balance to be found that will allow the organizations to co-exist and thrive, but finding the right balance could be tricky. If we use other sports as models we see that, for example, the NCAA runs college basketball but USA Basketball runs international teams and supports local organizations as well as coach and youth development. Something similar may be in store for the UPA.
I think the eligibility issues are still a huge issue. If negotiated properly, perhaps Cultimate can still require their participating team members to be UPA members and go through the UPA rostering process. That would alleviate that burden from a Cultimate organization that surely must be strained by more than tripling the number of tournaments they are running this year. Many people that also criticized the idea because it seems elitist and to some extent it is. However, it would be foolhardy for any organization to attempt to include every college team in its first year. That is just way too many teams and tournaments to manage without first developing the system to support it. I do not know what the Cultimate plans for the future are, but it is easy to see how the model they are developing could be expanded to more teams next year (say 8 per division) and perhaps even eventually expanded to correspond to current NCAA conferences. It would also seem possible to develop a Conference 2 and even a Conference 3 for smaller schools or "B" teams. The UPA is already in the process of developing a second college division (or will be soon) to allow smaller schools to play more competitive games and have their own national championship. It would seem that the Cultimate movement could be viewed as a step in this direction. It does take away some of the thrill the smaller schools get by playing an "elite" team, but NCAA DII and DIII sports still thrive and Ultimate at smaller schools could as well.
Finally, one thing that has always bothered me a bit about the UPA is that it really does not do a very good job of marketing itself and drawing in corporate dollars to support itself. It does appear the Cultimate is much better at this and indeed needs to be so as it is a for profit venture. The end result of all of this may mean more sponsorship dollars for the UPA, which can go into a more focused mission (youth ultimate, coach training, international play, etc).
I will still have to mull this whole thing over some more, but I think my initial reaction is more positive than negative. If successful, I think it will bring the possibility for much greater public exposure and a more "professional" presentation of the sport.
So many supporters of this Conference 1 system mention that it will help the growth of ultimate. But I have yet to see anyone give an explanation as to *how* this will help growth.
How is eliminating 90% of college teams from the National Championship going to encourage growth?
The UPA has worked hard to hold elections, votes, and conferences on the changes needed for the sport of Ultimate. How is it possible that so many are willing to give up their voice, and let 2 people determine the fate of the college ultimate championships? The UPA has a staff of dedicated people that work their ass to run the series. (I can't believe someone actually said "As for Cultimate basically paying the UPA to determine players' eligibility, does the UPA really spend that much on determining eligibility?").
Conference 1 is going to cripple the spread of competitive college ultimate. The UPA series is working. In the past 10 years the number of college teams has growth by several hundred percent, in large part because every team has a shot.
I cannot see this change as anything more than elitist teams being amazingly selfish.
Yet another reason why C1 is a bad idea: the impact of refereed games
If I was the coach of a C1 team, I'd start teaching my players how to play in refereed games - cheat but try not to get caught. For example, start elbowing cutters because it'd be hard for a ref to catch it.
What happens when these players try and go play non-C1 games (club, hat tourneys, etc)? They'll carry over their intentional cheating tactics.
Also, if you want your C1 team to compete well, you'll do the same thing that college football teams do - hire refs for your practices. This is because you want your players to know what they can get away with in actual games. Does C1 realize the cost involved in hiring a couple refs for every practice??
or is it the other 90% being amazingly selfish? All the complaints I've heard so far have been "my team this" and "I work so hard" blah blah... sounds kinda selfish to me...
this might not be the right answer to the stagnation of college ultimate but it gets the ball rolling.
I played for a team that most defiantly wouldn't have qualified for this elite bracket stuff none the less I still think it's great something is happening. By doing C1 you create DII with the UPA and have two college championships to play for. Yeah one may be a little more elite than the other but it levels the playing fields in both divisions and gives more teams a crack at playing in some sort of championship while at the same time letting those who are on the outside looking in have a chance, although it is slim, to break into the elite.
Also this idea of decreased growth is bogus. You think that having an elite division will decrease the number of new ultimate programs? When was the last time a new program went directly to the top? So with C1 you now have a DII (UPA) giving these newer teams a shorter road to competitive play with other not-so-elite programs all trying to get to the top of the not-so-elite mountain. Why wouldn't there be growth here? It doesn't make ultimate less popular does it?
Honestly if people want to talk about good change we should probably just kick it directly to a single elimination 64 team bracket. More teams, more story lines, and hopefully some elimination of this retarded wild card format based on performance done 365 days prior... now that's just funny.
Change is good.
On Oct 15, 10:00 am, The Truck <ntu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So many supporters of this Conference 1 system mention that it will > help the growth of ultimate. But I have yet to see anyone give an > explanation as to *how* this will help growth.
> How is eliminating 90% of college teams from the National Championship > going to encourage growth?
> The UPA has worked hard to hold elections, votes, and conferences on > the changes needed for the sport of Ultimate. How is it possible that > so many are willing to give up their voice, and let 2 people determine > the fate of the college ultimate championships? The UPA has a staff > of dedicated people that work their ass to run the series. (I can't > believe someone actually said "As for Cultimate basically paying the > UPA to determine players' eligibility, does the UPA really spend that > much on determining eligibility?").
> Conference 1 is going to cripple the spread of competitive college > ultimate. The UPA series is working. In the past 10 years the number > of college teams has growth by several hundred percent, in large part > because every team has a shot.
> I cannot see this change as anything more than elitist teams being > amazingly selfish.
On Oct 15, 10:09 am, nicholas.k...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yet another reason why C1 is a bad idea: the impact of refereed games
> If I was the coach of a C1 team, I'd start teaching my players how to > play in refereed games - cheat but try not to get caught. For > example, start elbowing cutters because it'd be hard for a ref to > catch it.
> What happens when these players try and go play non-C1 games (club, > hat tourneys, etc)? They'll carry over their intentional cheating > tactics.
That's right, Nick. Find a pinnacle of integrity in the Cultimate organization to share your concern about the impact of egregious cheating in non-C1 competition. I think Cyle Van Auken may be your man.
> this might not be the right answer to the stagnation of college > ultimate but it gets the ball rolling.
> I played for a team that most defiantly wouldn't have qualified for > this elite bracket stuff none the less I still think it's great > something is happening. By doing C1 you create DII with the UPA and > have two college championships to play for. Yeah one may be a little > more elite than the other but it levels the playing fields in both > divisions and gives more teams a crack at playing in some sort of > championship while at the same time letting those who are on the > outside looking in have a chance, although it is slim, to break into > the elite.
> Also this idea of decreased growth is bogus. You think that having an > elite division will decrease the number of new ultimate programs? > When was the last time a new program went directly to the top? So > with C1 you now have a DII (UPA) giving these newer teams a shorter > road to competitive play with other not-so-elite programs all trying > to get to the top of the not-so-elite mountain. Why wouldn't there be > growth here? It doesn't make ultimate less popular does it?
I agree with Hazera for the most part here. This may provide more growth opportunity and give more teams a chance to contend or play deeper into the UPA series.
It may also fail and soon become a footnote in Ultimate history like MLU or Cuervo. However, it is a bold effort to do something bigger with high-level Ultimate and is worth a shot.
Right, because sportsmanship doesn't exist unless it's labeled "spirit of the game" and all them cheatin' bastards that play reffed basketball, football, soccer, hockey, and baseball are out their throwin' 'bows at each other's head in rec league while the refs aren't looking.
Oh, and no one ever cheats in ultimate now.
On Oct 15, 10:09 am, nicholas.k...@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 15, 10:23 am, Hazera 36 <Francisco.haz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Honestly if people want to talk about good change we should probably > just kick it directly to a single elimination 64 team bracket. More > teams, more story lines, and hopefully some elimination of this > retarded wild card format based on performance done 365 days prior... > now that's just funny.
> Change is good.
Choosing the Top 25 to compete in every game meaningful to the National Championship is much more far-reaching than the wild card format.
Some change is good. Some change is bad.
Ending a post with a false declarative sentence is bad.
On Oct 15, 4:25 am, Axl <Layoutpo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> For the school’s that were left out of the initial selection, it > should only serve as fuel for their improvement. I think it is within > all possibility for the establishment for a Conference 2 as the > success of Conference 1 skyrockets.
I only have 4-5 years to play college ultimate. I don't have time to wait and see if this is a success or failure. I want all my games to count for something not just a year or two's worth.
On Oct 15, 11:16 am, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right, because sportsmanship doesn't exist unless it's labeled "spirit > of the game" and all them cheatin' bastards that play reffed > basketball, football, soccer, hockey, and baseball are out their > throwin' 'bows at each other's head in rec league while the refs > aren't looking.
> Oh, and no one ever cheats in ultimate now.
Your hyperbole does not effectively counter the reasonable point made by Kohn. Are there ways to minimize the impact? Sure. Should we be confident that Cultimate will strike an appropriate balance? I have no idea.
> I only have 4-5 years to play college ultimate. I don't have time to > wait and see if this is a success or failure. I want all my games to > count for something not just a year or two's worth.
I think that is the attitude that is going to kill this idea. College players are not going to be willing to give up their limited years of eligibility to play in a start up system. The risk is not worth it to them. They do not want to suffer the growing pains now for a better product down the road, when they will not get the benefit of that better product.
It's kind of lame, but I if I were in their shoes I am not sure I would think differently.
From the article in the Huddle, this jumps out at me:
"Cultimate also wants to make money off a division which has been, in the past, almost completely run for the financial betterment of individual teams."
This should alarm any college team or league that currently runs any successful mid-to-high level college tournaments. Until Cultimate came onto the scene, most (all?) college tournaments were executed as fundraisers for the home team. Which is a HUGE benefit in a sport in which not many schools provide attractive funding to their club programs (or frisbee in particular). Admittedly, I don't know what kind of agreement Cultimate makes with the men's and women's teams (as far as how much money teams make when they allow Cultimate to take off several thousand off the top). It does bother me that this is a money- making venture for Skip, first and foremost.
Brodie mentions that partaking in the Conference 1 series will be less expensive than their former seasons. However, for their 2008 season he was listing out a whole group of tournaments that Skip engineered and created -- It does get expensive to fly to three tournaments in the spring -- Vegas, Stanford, and Centex -- and pay $350 a pop to play. And the format that Brodie is championing now is one that existed until just a few years ago. Teams played a majority of their tournaments regionally, and might fly to a Stanford Invite (or CCC if you were on the west coast) for top competition. There are plenty of East Coast tournaments that have withered and diminished because their own regional competition took their athleticism and their dollars elsewhere. And Skip was at the forefront of that movement.
How expensive exactly is this contract with Conference 1 going to be? $2000 a team? $3000 a team? Is it going to prohibit teams from participating in the UPA Series or will they be able to do both?
Secondly, does Cultimate plan to provide insurance to those players participating in their tournaments? This is one oft-overlooked benefit of signing a UPA waiver and playing in the Sectionals, Regionals, and Nationals tournaments. If anything were to happen on the field site, the UPA has general liability insurance in place to protect itself and players.
I do recognize the great job that Skip has done in cultivating mainstream sponsorships for the sport, especially in association with tournaments. And I think that the idea of having a "Grand Prix" style tournament format leading into the Series is a good one. However, this is a change that could be made within the current UPA structure (and has been discussed at the Strategic Revolution Meetings). I would much rather see Skip use his money-making savvy and ideas within the existing system instead of potentially dividing a very competitive division in a rash manner that does undermine the existing governing body of ultimate.
My take on this is that this is a coup of the UPA's college ultimate program. It would be like a less fair, more disorganized version of the UPA's current system. Cultimate has done a great job running tournaments, but it is a big stretch to try to run all of college ultimate. The UPA has a lot of experience verifying college eligibility, and cultimate will probably spend a lot more money to attempt getting their eligibility verification system up to par than the UPA did to begin with. This division 1 makles it a lot easier for the selected teams to go to nationals than everyone else. With the UPA, every team starts out equal in the series. Why should we give up this equality? I can see the the reason for the selected teams to participate; they have a much better shot at making nationals now! This isn't fair. The UPA adjusted their series with extra strength bids, so that the best teams would usually make it (not always). This system makes it so that the weaker teams still make nationals, while better teams will suffer because they haven't been chosen. This is a horrible idea and is a worse version of the UPA series.
> My take on this is that this is a coup of the UPA's college ultimate > program. It would be like a less fair, more disorganized version of > the UPA's current system. Cultimate has done a great job running > tournaments, but it is a big stretch to try to run all of college > ultimate. The UPA has a lot of experience verifying college > eligibility, and cultimate will probably spend a lot more money to > attempt getting their eligibility verification system up to par than > the UPA did to begin with. This division 1 makles it a lot easier for > the selected teams to go to nationals than everyone else. With the > UPA, every team starts out equal in the series. Why should we give up > this equality? I can see the the reason for the selected teams to > participate; they have a much better shot at making nationals now! > This isn't fair. The UPA adjusted their series with extra strength > bids, so that the best teams would usually make it (not always). This > system makes it so that the weaker teams still make nationals, while > better teams will suffer because they haven't been chosen. This is a > horrible idea and is a worse version of the UPA series.
Whose coup is it? The UPA has benefited tremendously from Cultimate's tournaments in the last 5 years. Nationals is better because more info is known about teams. Three of the four strongest tournaments last year were Cultimate operations.
And as for equality.... that's going out the door soon anyway. The UPA is already moving towards a tiered system, so now they just have a scapegoat.
I think Cultimate is taking a bold step the UPA has so far been unwilling (or too slow -- just as damning) to take.
> My take on this is that this is a coup of the UPA's college ultimate > program. It would be like a less fair, more disorganized version of > the UPA's current system. Cultimate has done a great job running > tournaments, but it is a big stretch to try to run all of college > ultimate. The UPA has a lot of experience verifying college > eligibility, and cultimate will probably spend a lot more money to > attempt getting their eligibility verification system up to par than > the UPA did to begin with. This division 1 makles it a lot easier for > the selected teams to go to nationals than everyone else. With the > UPA, every team starts out equal in the series. Why should we give up > this equality? I can see the the reason for the selected teams to > participate; they have a much better shot at making nationals now! > This isn't fair. The UPA adjusted their series with extra strength > bids, so that the best teams would usually make it (not always). This > system makes it so that the weaker teams still make nationals, while > better teams will suffer because they haven't been chosen. This is a > horrible idea and is a worse version of the UPA series.
A coup? Unfair? Giving up equality?
Dear Mr. Vanillathunder, Please calm down. This is not the end of ultimate. Play on. -swill
> "Cultimate also wants to make money off a division which has been, in > the past, almost completely run for the financial betterment of > individual teams."
> This should alarm any college team or league that currently runs any > successful mid-to-high level college tournaments. Until Cultimate > came onto the scene, most (all?) college tournaments were executed as > fundraisers for the home team. Which is a HUGE benefit in a sport in > which not many schools provide attractive funding to their club > programs (or frisbee in particular). Admittedly, I don't know what > kind of agreement Cultimate makes with the men's and women's teams (as > far as how much money teams make when they allow Cultimate to take off > several thousand off the top). It does bother me that this is a money- > making venture for Skip, first and foremost.
> you were on the west coast) for top competition. There are plenty of > East Coast tournaments that have withered and diminished because their > own regional competition took their athleticism and their dollars > elsewhere. And Skip was at the forefront of that movement.
> How expensive exactly is this contract with Conference 1 going to be? > $2000 a team? $3000 a team? Is it going to prohibit teams from > participating in the UPA Series or will they be able to do both?
As I understand it, a C1 contract does not cost anything. By taking away the need for a bigger budget, the need for individual team fundrasing goes away. This allows players to be just players, not administrators, TDs, customer service, and event planners as well. If Skip runs a good tournament, why not let him, and get back to the reasons people join teams, to play.
Aside from CCC, and maybe Terminus, I can't think of tournament that consistently brings in the top competition. From the C1 website, there are a lot more tournaments in the midwest and east coast. So I think he's doing a good job of bringing the competition back from the west.
Finally, the man's gotta eat. It takes a lot of time to work this stuff out, so why shouldn't he get paid for it? The students pay a ton more in tuition, right? For the much longer hours that Skip puts in, he gets paid less than a teacher. He takes great care of those that help him put this stuff together, making sure they get there's before he gets his. If you think his "big corporate salary" of ramen noodles is going to buy him a yacht and not find it's way back into the ultimate community, you are sorely mistaken.
On Oct 15, 2:03 pm, Max <vanillathunde...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The UPA has a lot of experience verifying college > eligibility, and cultimate will probably spend a lot more money to > attempt getting their eligibility verification system up to par than > the UPA did to begin with.
It is easy enough to weasel around the UPA's eligibility restrictions. It just takes some outright dishonesty. If it's even easier to get around the C1 restrictions, then maybe I'll play in the C1 series this year. Surely Cyle won't punish a bit of dishonesty (referring to his favorable view of cheating, not his alleged/admitted embezzling).
|
