An Open Letter to Bad Larry
element...@gmail.com
To begin, I'd like to join you in congratulating Mischief on their
Mixed Division National Championship victory in Florida. Despite an
upcoming competition on the world stage, they risked injury, mental
breakdown, and financial ruin to represent themselves and their region
with an understatedly strong showing this past weekend. In my mind,
Mischief exemplifies many of the traits that all successful teams
possess and all mediocre teams strive for- determination, dedication,
stategy, and a level of respect for the art of competing and all its
participants, just to name a few. So congratulations to the new Mixed
National Champions, and best of luck competing at Worlds!
Let us also take a moment to acknowledge the honorable and
unselfish actions of Chad Larson Experience, who announced that, should
they earn the right, their bid to Nationals would be given up in order
to prepare for the upcoming Worlds competition. Not only did they
qualify for Nationals, but they won the region at that. To earn the
first right to a spot at Nationals only to hand it down to their
opponents may have upset some who saw it as a snub on the relative
prestige of the pinnacle of North American competition. On the other
hand, many people (myself included) see this as an act of sportmanship
and class. They had their sights on something bigger, and they get my
respect for having both the vision and the focus to strive for lofty
goals. So congratulations to CLX, may both your play and class carry
you far at Worlds!
That being said, I'm tempted to ask you what motivated your
decision(s) to bring a significantly smaller team to Sarasota and end
up with such a horrendous finish (3rd seed to 15th? I fully admit my
ignorance when it comes to the history of this sport, but has any team
ever dropped so far in rank at Nationals?), but I realize that everyone
makes their own decisions for their own reasons. It was made apparent
that you, like the teams mentioned above, plan on competing at Words.
So why commit to Nationals in the manner you did? Why risk injuries,
fatigue, etc. in Florida by sending such an insignificant roster? Why
not bring the team in full force and push for victory in preparation
for Worlds? I had you pegged as a top 4 finish easily. If a solid
representation wasn't feasible, why not pass up the bid for more
focused preparations? There were at least 2 teams from the SW region
who were itching for the right, unfortunately their results on Sunday
were not as expected.
You are a great team- your victory over us in regional finals
left no doubt who deserved the first bid from our region- but your
recent motives warrant questioning. The apparent disregard for your
reputation, your region's strength, and the overall integrity of the
National Championships have stirred emotions of frustration,
resentment, and determination. If you weren't able/willing to represent
the SW region at Nationals this year, one can assume that there will be
at least one team willing to work hard enough to challenge you for the
second bid next year....
Stay Classy,
Sam Williams
#19 Pleasuretown
P.S. Good luck at Worlds.
Luke Smith
back of your underwear.
poopt...@yahoo.com
bringing a full squad to Nationals, you would have... what? Played
harder? Given them a firm talking to?
I find it hard to believe that anyone would criticize a team for having
it's own goals. Did they deserve to go to Nationals? Hell yes. Was
it their decision what to do with their bid? Again, hell yes. If
their goal as a team happens to be something a little bigger than
Nationals, power to 'em, and good luck.
Adam Tarr
missing, how they approached the tournament, and so on.
That said, Sam's frustration is understandable. If Bad Larry performs
at the level that those of us who saw them at regionals expected, then
the SW gets a wild card, and Sam's team has that much more of a chance
to make nationals next year. In stead, we are likely to still have
only two bids, and Sam's team will still have to get by both Gendors
and Bad Larry to get one of them.
ultimatep...@gmail.com
a team going to natties and
not really trying does have significant
regional implications, especially for
the team who would, if there were
three bids, possibly be able to go
the next year. that third team, arguably,
might have been able to do well
enough to bring a strength bid
back if they had gone to natties,
thereby making their next year's
path easier. as it stands, pleasuretown
is SOL next year, assuming that
the Gendors and Bad Larry both
play in the series.
so it's ok for them to be bitter.
and to think that BadLarry are a
bunch of arses. just like they would
be entirely justified to be angry with
bad larry if they had an opportunity
to play for the strength bid through
the loser's bracket, but instead
forfeited those game. if BL had done
that, i think that a lot of people would
be critical. and from pleasuretown's
POV, that's more or less what happened.
poor, poor, pleasuretown.
ahal...@gmail.com
understand a bit of consternation on behalf of the teams that would
have stood to gain from that strength bid.
It also screwed up the seeing. Pool C was a crazy pool, for one
because the 1 seed in the pool (3rd overall) went winless on Thursday.
Some might argue that's an unfair advantage for the other 3 teams in
their pool over the lower teams in the other pools. Did they have an
easier road to the power pools?
In addition, BL admittedly took a weaker team to Champies than they
could have....significantly weaker (see their seeding). Let's consider
a much more extreme case, say a team gets a bit to nationals and
forfeits all their games there, or rolls over 15-0 for all of them.
Does 'just happy to be there' justify that approach? When you accept a
bid to nationals, are you implicitly agreeing to be vying for the
championship?
H
PS: I don't know anybody on any of these teams, have never played them,
and hold them in no ill regard. I'm not even sure I play in their
division. I just think it's an interesting situation to discuss.
Don Steg
Nationals then immediately all these concerns become moot.
I'm glad Oceania has a chance to host a world class event, but it is a
shame it had to come at such a cost.
pizzaslot
Don Steg
put words in my mouth. It is an undeniable fact that BOTH the WUCC'06
and the 2006 UPA Club Series were adversely by their proximity on the
calendar. That is all I am saying.
Ca$h
series during the fall along with the open and women's teams. If co-ed
players can't even take the series seriously...why should they be
involved.
I'm just sayin...
$
Parinella
it's not due to it being 12 days after the US Nationals.
btw, I got something in the mail that offered a roundtrip from SF or LA
to Australia and three flights within Australia for $1099 (plus
$150-250 in taxes) on Qantas, valid for travel beginning 11/1/06.
Sure, it's the World Championships, but WFDF probably doesn't mind if
you just pick up with a team at the last minute, so go to australia.com
for this offer if you are thinking of going still.
Adam Tarr
Dear troll,
No, this is not the appropriate time. But since you asked, I'll
oblige. It's because that's when the players want it. The UPA serves
the players.
Don Steg
> The world should not revolve around the United f'ing States and do not
> put words in my mouth. It is an undeniable fact that BOTH the WUCC'06
> and the 2006 UPA Club Series were adversely
affected (forgot that word. nice.)
SATa...@gmail.com
>...but WFDF probably doesn't mind if you just pick up with a team at the last minute...
Wouldn't be so sure about that, especially if the team is from a tier
one country. An issue with a couple of players on my team being
classified as Class B players (as opposed to Class C) is still being
considered by the AFDA/WFDF, despite rego closing yesterday. If an
Australian team is having this much trouble, I doubt they'll go soft on
a US/Canadian team.
Unless of course you wanted to pick up on India or Korea, in which
case, knock yourself out.
That being said, that flight deal is ridiculously cheap. Considering a
return flight from Melbourne or Sydney to Perth with Qantas alone costs
about US$400, then you're getting a pretty good deal!
Ultimate9er
> decision(s) to bring a significantly smaller team to Sarasota and end
> up with such a horrendous finish (3rd seed to 15th?
I'd guess that BL didn't decide to finish 15th. They may have decided
to bring a smaller roster, or it may have just happened that way
(persons X, Y, and Z couldn't make it). I'd guess that they went into
the tournament intending to finish higher than they did. Even if you
know your team will be missing some folks, you typically don't
write-off your chances beforehand.
Furious beat Sockeye in the regional final without some of their studs.
Teams excel all the time despite missing players (even key players).
Bad Larry still had a lot of their roster at nationals, so unless I
heard otherwise, I wouldn't assume they went in with the intent to
place anything less than 1st.
>From what I saw of their play at nationals, it looked like they were
trying hard, but just didn't have it pulled together very well. The
root of that may have been missing players, sure. However, I doubt BL
(or anyone) knew in advance the effect that those missing players (or
any other factors present) would actually have on their performance.
How are you supposed to know that beforehand though? Well, let's see,
with our full roster, I'm sure we'll get 3rd. If Rufio is missing,
4th. Without Willis and Alfred, probably 5th. Without Sherry, 7th.
Without Giacamo, 2nd. Without Bianca and Sherry, 9th. That's not the
way it works... the way it works is "yes, we are going to be missing
some people, but we can do this and this to adjust, and it's just
another obstacle to overcome on our road to a national championship."
Yes, it sucks for the SW to not get that strength bid they probably
could have gotten. Yes, perhaps teams should feel a strong obligation
to send the same team to regionals that they send to nationals (perhaps
the UPA should even make a rule... require x % of the roster to be in
attendance or something). However, don't forget that we have the
advantage of hindsight in this particular case, and why don't you send
a message privately to BL instead of tearing into them on RSD? Did you
at least do that first?
I will say that your letter seemed thoughtfully written, for the most
part, and brought up many good points and said many nice things too.
Most everyone can sympathize with your team's position (it sucks to
barely miss nationals, but it sucks even more when the teams that beat
you to go don't do as well there). I'll also say that if Bad Larry
really did go to nationals intending to not take it seriously or
intending to finish poorly, then you've got a very legitimate public
complaint. I'm just not sure that is the case.
kriw...@gmail.com
It saddens me that this thread has been hijacked for other purposes,
because this is a serious issue. I hesitate to rush to judgement, since
I don't know any of the bad larry players, but this doesn't smell right
and seems to have hurt the SW -- my region. I'd love to hear from some
of the bad larry players themselves.
Just so everyone has the facts: Bad Larry and Pleasuretown met in the
front door finals of SW Mixed Regionals this year, BL going through the
Gendors to get there, and BL won. Pleasuretown then lost to the Gendors
in the backdoor final for the 2nd bid to nationals, thus PT finished
third.
I think it is instructive to use the Gendors as a yardstick for the
various teams involved. Only five teams beat the Gendors ALL SEASON
LONG: Mischief, who finished first at natties (2-2 vs Gendors this
season, both wins coming at natties); Slow White, who finished second
at natties (1-0 record vs Gendors this season and the only team who had
a winning record against them); Brass Monkey, who finished tied with
the Gendors for third at natties (1-1 record vs Gendors this season);
Bad Larry, who beat the Gendors at Regionals (1-1 record vs Gendors
this season); and Pleasuretown, who beat the Gendors in the SoCal
sectional final (1-2 record vs Gendors this season).
Based on this evidence, I have no doubt that Pleasuretown would have
represented the SW well at natties, and at least contended for a
strength bid. It does not appear that BL was contending. They lost five
games at natties by a combined 30 points and won their final game
(apparently capped) by 1 for 15th place.
Ken
quat...@gmail.com
I didn't play a point at a tournament for Bad Larry this year, but I
captained the team for several years and almost went to nationals to
help out with low numbers and I know what is going on with the team.
BL had 4 players that didn't come to Sarasota. 4 starters that are
probably within the top 10 in touches on the team at a typical
tournament this year. But this entire year the focus of the team has
been Perth and it was always clear that not everyone would be able to
make nationals because of the commitments to Perth. There were also
lots of people who wanted to do both, so the team decided to do both.
Did missing the 4 hurt? Yeah, in retrospect it looks like it did.
Did the team think they would perform well without them? Yes.
Did the team have a bad tournament? Obviously.
Did the team ever not try as has been hinted at in some of these posts?
Please.
Do I think Pleasuretown would have earned a strength bid for the SW?
No. No disrespect, but BL and Gendors beat them by 9 and 10 points in
the semis and game-to-go at SW regionals.
Do I think BL should have said "well, we are missing four people, we
might not be as strong as we were at regionals, and because there is a
chance we might under perform we better just stay home because someone
else might have a better shot a strength bid for the SW"? Again,
please.
I know what it is like to finish third at regionals and anxiously watch
the web hoping that the two teams from your region do well enough to
get your region a third bid for the following year. I understand the
frustration. But that is where you are left when you aren't
controlling your own destiny. Sure BL would have liked to have done
better and expected to do better. I'm sure BL looks forward to your
challenge for one of the bids next year and doesn't mind if they are in
your mind's eye for motivation. But to suggest that BL isn't classy or
sporting by going to nationals with less than a full squad is
ludicrous.
And is tonight's Fresno St v. Boise St. game the opposite of this
complaint? Shouldn't Fresno throw the game for the good of the WAC?
Think of all that BCS money, Fresno.
Finally, BL actually had a reputation to sully in a fringe division of
a fringe sport? Wow!
Phil Quatrochi
Bad Larry #10 until someone pries it from my cold dead hands
Xano...@gmail.com
for Bad Larry. Much of the Sam's (and the rest of our team's)
frustration is from the size of the fall BL took. Having played both BL
and Gendors in Regions we were certain BL was the superior team by a
large margin, and not so because of any single superstar player, but
because of great group dynamics, excellent timing and better all around
play. We had heard that Bad Larry was missing almost half their squad
at nationals, which of course drove us to very different conclusions
than the idea that they were missing only 4 players.
Understandably people are exhausted and probably sick of ultimate after
last weekend, but if anyone from Bad Larry can come forward and give us
a better explaination of what happened at Nationals it would aleviate a
lot of frustration not only for Ptown, but other high placing SW teams
that are looking forward to next year.
Elijah
frustrated. win your region and you make it to nationals. simple. don't
be frustrated that a team that beat you got beat at nationals. work
hard in the off-season and win the region next year. don't worry about
bid numbers, other teams, etc. win the region and you're in.
my team had 3 games to go at regionals and we lost them all. we did not
deserve to be at natties. direct your frustration toward losing 2 games
to go to nationals.
paece.
Adam Tarr
> you lost to bad larry at regionals; that is why you should be
> frustrated. win your region and you make it to nationals. simple. don't
> be frustrated that a team that beat you got beat at nationals. work
> hard in the off-season and win the region next year. don't worry about
> bid numbers, other teams, etc. win the region and you're in.
That's easy to say, and it sounds great. But if that's our guiding
logic then we don't need wildcards at all, and we probably shouldn't
even have second bids from regions. Just 8 teams at nationals.
Sockeye doesn't get to go to nationals? Too bad, they lost their
region and clearly don't deserve to be there.
Their frustration does make sense. If Bad Larry played as well at
nationals as they did at regionals, then we have three bids next year
(and Pleasuretown would have had that rare opportunity to lose three
straight games to go). If, on the other hand, Bad Larry played as
poorly at regionals as they did at nationals, then somebody else might
have had a shot (to beat Pleasuretown in the game to go).
I mean, this is why the strength wild card exists. If you don't think
this matters, then it seems you don't think wildcards are important or
reflective of anything, and may as well be abolished.
And in case it's not obvious from my snarky parenthetical comments, I'd
agree with Phil that I don't think Pleasuretown or DTL would have
gotten us a strength bid (although it's possible of course). I'm not
suggesting that BL should have declined their bid. But again, being
frustrated that BL went 0-fer on Thursday and Friday makes perfect
sense for other SW mixed teams, if you believe that the strength wild
card actually serves a purpose.
ultimatep...@gmail.com
the strength bid. That usually includes DTL. If DTL was
signficantly off of their play from other years, and Pleasuretown
was not up to that level of play, then sure, they might not
have been in the runnings. But I saw nothing to indicate that
the DTL that I have previously seen would not have been
competetive with the 9-10-11 teams (moe, puppet, flycoons),
although both Phil and Adam are probably more conversant
with the overall strength of the SW this year.
I agree that there seems to be an undercurrent in the thinking
on RSD that any bid beyond the 2nd per region doesn't matter
that much because, something something, your team just has
to win the game that matters, something something. But those
bids do matter. They generate a valid interest in on the edge
teams. Moe, for example, has probably been much encouraged
during their existence by the three bids that the central always
gets. The fourth NW bid gives teams like the Flycoons a chance
to get to natties, and again,something to work for year after year.
And the third and fourth bids give teams like mischief a reason
to exist every year, and eventually, to not be happy with JUST an
appearance at nationals.
The absence of a third bid in the SW, two years running, could
be a negative influence on the competetiveness of the teams
in that region. For which we thank Bad Larry.
I could really care less who gets the strength bids after, of course,
the NW gets one. And I still hold a grudge against the NW
teams that failed to bring back a strength bid (CTR, Persuader,
dmn you both to the purgatory of never returning to natties).
Elijah
paece.
Daag Alemayehu
> 2 shots at nationals. 0-2.
>
> paece.
I think you said that already, not even 2 hours earlier. Oh but since
you put it THAT way, I think everyone totally agrees with you now.
Besides, maybe the third time's the charm. Except for you, apparently.
AM I RIGHT OR AM I RIGHT LADIES.
Adam Tarr
> Historically, the SW #2 has at least been in the running for
> the strength bid. That usually includes DTL. If DTL was
> signficantly off of their play from other years, and Pleasuretown
> was not up to that level of play, then sure, they might not
> have been in the runnings. But I saw nothing to indicate that
> the DTL that I have previously seen would not have been
> competetive with the 9-10-11 teams (moe, puppet, flycoons),
> although both Phil and Adam are probably more conversant
> with the overall strength of the SW this year.
I can't really say that PT or DTL would have failed to take home a
wildcard. First reason being that I don't really know how well
Flycoons/Puppet/Moe were playing at nationals. I just don't want to be
presumptuous about this sort of thing. I had every expectation that
the SW was going to take home a wildcard precisely because of the level
of play I saw from Gendors and Larry at regionals.
I don't mean to dig toi hard at Pleasuretown - I don't know those guys
and I have nothing against them. It's just that it's clear that a lot
of their frustration comes from a feeling that Larry took "their bid"
and didn't do much with it. I'd just point out that they never proved
they were better than DTL at regionals (or better than Ripe, for that
matter). None of this is really relevant to the main point...
PGe...@gmail.com
nationals next year. The clearly didn't deserve to be there by getting
killed in 2 games to go. And it hurts Bad Larry for next year just as
much as the teams that didn't make it. Its their bid to do what they
wish with. And they are allowed to use Nationals as a fun tournament
before Worlds this year, even if they know it might cost them a bid
back to nationals last year.
And I hate the crap argument where you only need 8 teams at nationals
(aren't there 6 regions in club?), but wait a team that finished second
at regionals won nationals. Who cares. The third team is never going
to win. Mixed sucks anyway. Ultimate isnt even a real sport. My
theory is that Bad Larry hates the rest of the SW and wanted to screw
us. This makes no sense anymore.
Pete
element...@gmail.com
> I can't really say that PT or DTL would have failed to take home a
> wildcard. First reason being that I don't really know how well
> Flycoons/Puppet/Moe were playing at nationals. I just don't want to be
> presumptuous about this sort of thing. I had every expectation that
> the SW was going to take home a wildcard precisely because of the level
> of play I saw from Gendors and Larry at regionals.
Gendors are badass. Much love and respect to our SoCal friends and
opponents; our deep regret, sympathy, and support in the wake of the
recent tragedy will hopefully be felt long after we are all eligible
for the master's division.
>
> I don't mean to dig toi hard at Pleasuretown - I don't know those guys
> and I have nothing against them.
No offense taken. Part of putting out honest feelings is being willing
to accept harsh response.
> It's just that it's clear that a lot
> of their frustration comes from a feeling that Larry took "their bid"
> and didn't do much with it.
I never tried to imply that BL "took" "our bid." As regional results
show, BL deserved to go. We had our shot this year and missed, so
obviously we are looking to next year, which will be more difficult
based on results from this past weekend. Frustration mainly stems from
performance not matching potential. We (as well as DTL, Ripe, etc.) had
a vested interest in BL and Gendors both doing well.
I'd just point out that they never proved
> they were better than DTL at regionals (or better than Ripe, for that
> matter). None of this is really relevant to the main point...
Boat race.
baum...@yahoo.com
> half-assing it?
I guess that makes you the first one in this thread to actually call
Bad Larry out, rather than just make some nasty hints and implied
accusations. Not sure which I like less.
Question: what, exactly, have you ever seen from Bad Larry in the past
that makes you think they'd half-ass it at Nationals or anywhere? That
they would fly to Sarasota just so they could roll over in style...
The "open letter" and some posts that followed it suck, because behind
the hesitation and qualified statements is an implied request for
someone from Bad Larry to either say they didn't try (ridiculous), or
to come into this public forum a few days before Worlds and discuss,
with people who accuse them of laying down, what was obviously a very
disappointing Nationals.
If you're pissed that Bad Larry would go to Nationals without 4
players, I guess that means playing at Nationals is less important to
you than it is to them. If my team made Nationals (quiet there,
hecklers) then I'd go even if we only had 7. That's probably true of
most people who bother to make the trip to Regionals. If you're just
pissed at the 4 players who didn't make the trip, why are we talking
about the whole of "Bad Larry?" Why not just call out those 4 players
and demand to know what prevented them from being in Sarasota? Maybe
have them send you some tax statements or a note from their supervisor
(horror porn director?) or something. That way you could judge for
yourself whether their reasons are good enough for you to start
applying your frustration in the direction it belongs.
Baums
DK
> probably within the top 10 in touches on the team at a typical
> tournament this year.
Who were the 4 that didn't go? Not trying to call anyone out, I am
just trying to picture who the BL team was in Sarasota this year.
DK
kriw...@gmail.com
Thanks for the post and the facts.
Simple answer is that I agree with almost everything that Adam says in
his posts. (Much) longer response below:
First, I apologize for my part in any apparant hint that the BL team in
Florida didn't try; that is not what I meant. I wrote, for the record,
"It does not appear that BL was contending." I can see why this would
be interpreted as saying that I thought BL wasn't trying, but in all
honesty that is not what I was trying to say.
My reason for posting was that I could see the frustration of PTown
thinking of their potential Natties spot and the lost 3rd bid to
natties next year (and feel the frustration myself as a Mixed player in
the SW next year with only two bids) because it appeared that BL did
not bring a team that was capable of contending for a strenght bid.
Phil, as you point out and Ultimate9er also above noted, it is not that
simple. The team was without 4 starters and felt they could still
contend. That seems reasonable to me. I fully agree that it is
impossible to say before a tournament how you will play with missing
players. A similar situation arises when good players get hurt. I don't
think there would have been the same level of frustration -- or any
frustration -- if 4 players for BL were hurt in the first game at
natties and the same result held.
I am still not sure, however, that what BL did is fair. I don't know if
a team should play in Regionals, expecting to win a bid to Nationals,
with multiple key players that the team knows will not be available to
represent them at Nationals. It is potentially bad for the Region. If
Bad Larry had played at Regionals without those 4 and still earned a
spot at natties (certainly plausible), we would not be having this
conversation.
I fully realize that BL did not break any rules by doing this. I also
realize that the best thing for BL was to prepare for Worlds by playing
at a competitive tournament with their full squad (presumably these 4
are going to Worlds). In retrospect, it MAY have cost the region a
strength bid and MAY have cost a team that MAY have been better in
Florida a trip to natties.
None of us can say how BL would have done at Regionals without those 4.
One can look at the only "objective" measure as RRI, with BL's score of
2253 at Nationals (which would have put them in about a tie with
PTown's score at Regionals and quite a bit behind both DTL's Regional
score and PTown's score a Sectionals), but it is hard to draw many
conclusions. Maybe BL would not have been in the final against PTown,
having lost to the Gendors or in their pool; PTown would likely have
lost to the Gendors in the final (but not for sure -- look at
Sectionals) and then played DTL for the last spot. Who knows, also, if
either PTown or DTL could have made the quarters at nationals (2nd
strength bid went to Tandem in the NE, who finished 7/8). Concensus
seems to say no, other than perhaps Bil's opinion. My personal opinion
is that the Gendors and PTown would have gone; the Gendors would have
been the #1 overall seed, having a potentially easier road (certainly
would not have had Slow White in their pool); and PTown would have
finished somewhere between 5-10, maybe earning a strength bid. We'll
never know.
By the way (it's a stretch, but you brought it up), Fresno didn't have
to throw the game. They were beat by a very good Boise team that is
playing with players they intend to use at a BCS bowl, should they get
there. Also, Fresno's ability to go to a BCS bowl next year is not
directly tied to how Boise does if they make it to a BCS bowl this
year.
Ken
neurodancer
"missing 4" had other commitments or could not afford the trip. The
Nationals are supremely important but sometimes real life rears its
ugly head.
ND
Daag Alemayehu
> BL had 4 players that didn't come to Sarasota. 4 starters that are
> probably within the top 10 in touches on the team at a typical
> tournament this year. But this entire year the focus of the team has
Here's a question: if BL knew they were going to be missing these 4
studs/studettes, and I assume they knew, did they bother to point this
out to GC while he was seeding the mixed division? Don't you think
this would have been pretty relevant information? They would have been
seeded lower, perhaps even much lower.
This doesn't really make a difference for Pleasuretown, DTL, or anyone
else who cares about the SW getting a strength bid, but this could
potentially mean a world of difference for the teams AT nationals. As
someone mentioned earlier, why should the bottom 3 teams in BL's pool
get the benefit of such a soft 1-seed? If BL was seeded, let's say,
10th overall, that could have changed Thursday's results dramatically.
Just a thought.
George Cooke
BL and I did discuss the impact of WUCC's upon their Nationals roster.
While there was some initial concern (right after SW Regionals) about
the possibility of BL bringing about half their roster, it became
clear, as Phil described, that the team was going to be somewhat close
to full strength and I felt BL should not be subjected to a level of
"roster strength scrutiny" inconsistent with the other 15 teams.
In the end, I felt that the 3 seed was "correct" based on a seeding
point of view that is reactive to this season's and prior year's
results.
Thanks,
George Cooke
UPA National Mixed Director
MadOne
players just for regionals knowing that those players couldn't travel
to nationals. To make it more concrete - what if Mr.Briefcase picked
up Chase, Nord, Miranda Roth, Alex Snyder just for regionals and then
told you ahead of time those 4 would not be competing at nationals.
And suppose they crush the regional competition with those 4 playing a
large role.
Would you seed them lower?
pizzaslot
than Mixed?
kriw...@gmail.com
Isn't there the requirement of not seeding a regional #2 above a
regional #1 at nationals? I know it works this way at Regionals with
respect to Sectionals results.
If so, seeding BL 10th would have meant seeding the Gendors (finished
3rd overall) 11th, thus screwing up other pools and handicapping the
Gendors unfairly. As I've said before, this is a complicated situation.
Ken
On Nov 3, 1:17 am, "Daag Alemayehu" <daag.alemay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> quatr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > BL had 4 players that didn't come to Sarasota. 4 starters that are
> > probably within the top 10 in touches on the team at a typical
> > tournament this year. But this entire year the focus of the team hasHere's a question: if BL knew they were going to be missing these 4
Nilla
I was going to post a snarky, simplistic post similar to Daag's, but I
see he's gotten to the crux of the issue, and it's pretty simple.
It pains me to say this, but George, you dropped the ball on this one.
That should be the end of the story, because you knew that BL would be
weaker, and you didn't take up your responsibility of seeding them
lower. You did a great job on the rest of the seedings, but BL should
have been seeded lower, simply because they told you they'd be a weaker
team at nationals than they were all season long.
I don't mean to sound like a dick, and I think George did a great job
this year with his overall coordination of the series. I'm just
saying, if people want to point the finger anywhere, it's not entirely
the fault of Bad Larry. They did what was in THEIR best interest, it's
the National Directors job to do what is in the interest of the sport.
Hindsight is sweet,
Nilla
Adam Tarr
Even if I take your argument as a given, how do you reconcile this with
giving the proper seed to the Gendors, who might have gotten the top
seed if they had won regionals? Do you seed two SW teams at 4-5?
Just asking.
baum...@yahoo.com
As someone said, the real problem is the timing of Worlds and
Nationals. Nobody's got a problem with the BL players who went to
Sarasota. And it looks like even the pissed-off understand how the
other 4 didn't make it. That sounds like the end of the story to me,
but for dudes who need more closure I guess there's still the option of
closing their eyes and slagging "Bad Larry the team" for not getting
them what they wanted.
Hopefully the Worlds and Nationals schedules/locations are more
compatible next time around. It's probably worth accepting right now
that if they aren't, we're gonna need even more open letters to get
things straightened out.