Ultimate Players Referee Alliance
Baer
posters, and the response I have received so far is pretty positive.
Feel free to discuss it on this forum, but as I'm sure it may devolve
into a flame war at some point, all I really ask is that you all read
the survey and send a reply directly to my email, if you would like to
participate.
Essentially, I am working on a project called the Ultimate Players
Referee Alliance to determine how much support there would be for
experimenting with the option of refs and an elite level league using
refs (similar to MLU). Read below, and thank you to whoever has
already responded and whoever else would like to participate:
*************************
The purpose of this survey/petition is to begin an interactive process
within the nationwide Ultimate community to determine the collective
thoughts of Ultimate players regarding the question of experimenting
with the option of referees in place of self-officiation in certain
levels of competition. This is intended for current and future members
of the Ultimate Player's Association (UPA).
Ultimate has traditionally relied exclusively on self-officiation at
all levels (with the assistance of Observers at select levels of
competition), but as the sport grows, there is a growing movement to
experiment with the option of referees in leagues and/or tournaments
to see how players respond and to see how it effects game play.
This survey is not advocating the elimination of all self-officiated
play, but rather an attempt to learn who in the Ultimate community is
interested in exploring the use of referees in some situations, in the
interest of expanding the sport.
Please answer the following questions:
1. Would you be supportive of a tournament or league which used
referees in an experimental setting? YES / NO
2. Would you like to play in a league or tournament which used
referees in an experimental setting? YES / NO
3. Would you be willing to assist in an organizational or
administrative capacity with a league or tournament which used
referees in an experimental setting? YES / NO
4. Would you like to see an elite-level league or series developed in
which referees are used? YES / NO
5. Do you believe that the option of using referees in an experimental
setting would hurt the sport of Ultimate? YES / NO
6. Why or why not (regarding the above question)?
For the purposes of validating this petition and for demographic
information, please enter the following (we will not use your
information for any other purposes):
Name:
Number of Years Playing Ultimate:
Current level of play (Club/College/Youth, etc):
What state/region do you live in?
Are you a current UPA member? YES / NO
Thank you for your help in this process. Please email this completed
survey directly to collin [dot] baer [at] yahoo [dot] com.
Please forward this to other Ultimate players who may be interested as
well.
Baer
***************************
Baer
from as many people as possible, whether you agree with this or not!
Frank Huguenard
Self perpetuating.
"Baer" <colli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:56d5b3ac-f24d-4efc...@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
swill...@yahoo.com
<fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> This looks like one of the UPA's polls.
>
> Self perpetuating.
This sounds like one of your usual posts.
Completely dismissive.
Frank Huguenard
Then I haven't made my point clear.
Refs are nice. We play with them all the time in Dischoops. It's a fricken
luxury.
Yeah, there are blown calls and there is the lack of sovereignty people are
accustomed to in Ultimate but the trade off is well worth it.
My point was the lack of Refs is not the problem with Ultimate and for Baer
to poll a bunch of Ultimate players on the virtues of refs is a
demographically self perpetuating circumstance.
It's like asking a crack ho if she want to use a lighter instead of matches.
The poll was very narrow in scope, just like the UPA's polls.
<swill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d9a5de9b-b4fa-4536...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
swill...@yahoo.com
> luxury.
>
> Yeah, there are blown calls and there is the lack of sovereignty people are
> accustomed to in Ultimate but the trade off is well worth it.
>
> My point was the lack of Refs is not the problem with Ultimate and for Baer
> to poll a bunch of Ultimate players on the virtues of refs is a
> demographically self perpetuating circumstance.
>
> It's like asking a crack ho if she want to use a lighter instead of matches.
> The poll was very narrow in scope, just like the UPA's polls.
Firstly, Frank...welcome back. Seriously, something has changed for
the better and at the very least, I notice and appreciate it. And,
regardless of what you think, your opinions within this survey will
surely be appreciated.
Regardless of why, the sport of ultimate is growing faster than the
cultural influences it also carries. We all play our first game self
officiated, but more and more, some of us are wondering if all games
we play (or see) will be the same as that first one.
I don't know if this is a good thing or bad thing. I do know that it
is a product of the sport's expansion and a natural question.
As for the short 6 questions...I prefer it that way. I know the
objective, whether or not a question that I feel is relevant will come
up, and finally a chance to explain my answers.
Versus 150+ questions, afterwhich, I feel like I just gave a lukewarm
vote in support of whatever the survey was asking about....
In response to your analogy, there are less crack addicts in the
world, and those that do exist, will shy away from the notion of
breaking the addiction, and congregate w/ other crack addicts in crack
houses. (Frank, it is time for a nicer analogy...)
Baer
try to respond to any questions or concerns, and I will get in touch
with anyone who expresses an organizational or administrative interest
at a later date.
To clarify the first question, when I ask if you would "support" the
idea, I don't necessarily mean your money or any additional effort
right now (that's question 3). What I mean by "support" is your moral
support, if you are in favor of this experimentation, as opposed to
protesting it.
Thanks again everyone, and keep the responses coming!
Baer
Frank Huguenard
<swill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cac17fc1-b16c-4df0...@13g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
joad...@ec.rr.com
<fhuguenard(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> It's like asking a crack ho if she want to use a lighter instead of matches.
thats a great analogy with refs representing the lighter and matches
representing self officiation. I'm assuming it would also be like
asking a pot head that strictly uses a TM (or other type bong) the
same thing, right? A lighter is just a much better, more efficient
and effective tool.......and using matches would definitely be a last
resort option.....which to most is rather archaic.
Rhett
similes...
I've only skimmed the thread but as far as I can tell we went from
talking about an alliance of referees to Frank being a crack whore
(makes sense i guess) to crack whores arguing over which is the best
way to light.....crack....or something...
So my two cents: not being a crack whore I can't say for certain, but
I believe it would be difficult to get the crack hot or whatever you
have to do with it (melt it on a spoon I think) with just a match.
Maybe like, if you lit something else with the match, then held it
under the spoon. Or you could microwave it maybe.. but careful about
the spoon.. use a plastic one maybe.
joad...@ec.rr.com
>
> So my two cents: not being a crack whore I can't say for certain, but
> I believe it would be difficult to get the crack hot or whatever you
> have to do with it (melt it on a spoon I think) with just a match.
so the same common sense that tells ya its stupid to smoke crack using
matches should also tell ya its stupid to arbitrate sports competition
using partial opponents......or to only use them as a last resort.
swill...@yahoo.com
Frank was referring to his analogous line of thought...
A player's first game of ultimate is self officiated....
Subsequent games played are self officiated....
Player is asked, do you like self officiated ultimate...
Player, due to preference or lack of options, only knows self
officiated ultimate...
And so player supports self officiated ultimate, if not by vote, then
by simply playing...
Rules of ultimate remain unchanged....
And the first game of ultimate remains the same....
The old man may be a frustrated, but there is an argument. It's the
same reasoning used world around. This is what I grew up with, this
is what I know (and like), this is how I want it to be for future
generations. Religion, culture, etc etc.
It's tricky. Is it preference or lack of options? What's right/
wrong? How do you respect preference and allow options to develop?
Should participants dictate how a sport is officiated? If the
officiation changes, does the sport inherently change? Is that a bad
thing?
I don't know, and opinions are in play, so open mindsets and
discussions are needed. I find the best discussions begin with a
specific question(s).
Baer
Well said, Swill.
Do any of my questions need to be reworded? Are there other pressing
questions relative to this same issue? I tried to keep the survey very
short and focused, and I tried to avoid ambiguity.
Everyone's response and/or comments are welcome.
Rhett
Frank/Swill:
I grow up in a democracy.
Democracy is all I know.
I see other countries that are communist, but have never been to them.
I can see, even without living in those countries, that communism is
silly.
Just because one or two people in that communist country say that
communism is sweet, doesn't mean that all referendums in my own
country should have the extra options:
1) Yes, raise taxes.
2) No, don't.
3) SWITCH TO COMMUNISM.
all y'all's (im not from the south I don't know where to put the
apostrophes in yall's) analogies are dumb.
swill...@yahoo.com
Heh... Okay, I'll play...
Firstly, please refer to us as Frill.....Mr. Rhett McCarthy!!
Secondly, can someone for democracy write a book on communism, and
still be for democracy, Mr. McCarthy?
Mr, McCarthy, communism has (and will) failed upon itself. How can
this be a threat to democracy?
In this democracy of yours, how exactly does this 'majority rule'
concept work? Does a simple majority carry the full vote?
The minority constituents are not afforded the same rights as any
other, under this democracy, Mr. McCarthy?
You see, Mr. McCarthy, I too grew up in a democracy. As such, I
learned a valuable concept. Always question the status quo, be open
minded, and respect your fellow man.
Joe Buck
> I see other countries that are communist, but have never been to them.
> I can see, even without living in those countries, that communism is
> silly.
there are no communist countries.
never have been.
Wagenwheel
the apostrophe comes between the a and the l "ya'll"
Joe Buck
> the apostrophe comes between the a and the l "ya'll"
you north carolinians can't even be proper hillbillies.
it's "Y'ALL"
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/0/0a/Florence-yall.jpg
Rhett
Not to sidestep your rebuttal, but the point of my analogy was to more
to show that I don't like analogies...I didn't put a whole lot of time
thinking up an accurate one and I don't expect it to hold up at all.
It was primarily in reply to Frank's suggestion that the survey should
allow more broad choices, and also to make fun of the ridiculous
analogies in this thread.
Rhett
What about plural possessive?
I'm gonna steal all y'all's bicycles.
Mike Gerics
---i've been trying for years, Ed....
Mike Gerics
---Ed, i have to say again....i've been trying for years....and all sorts of
outsider folks are gonna site a ton of sources........and i'll keep trying
for years to tell 'em......it's (((((((ya'll)))))))) .....and they'll never
get it.....
Daag Alemayehu
Maybe they spell it different in North Carolina than in Georgia, but
I've been spelling it y'all my whole life. Whether that's right or
wrong (it's right) I don't think there's any changing me now.
Colin
form would put the apostrophe after the terminal sigma:
"y'alls' bikes better be inside by dark!".
"ya'll" is still used, but with less frequency. See wikipedia for more
info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y'all
Colin
Baer
matty j
> I reck'n y'all have done hijacked this here thread, I tell you what!
I think the appropriate phrase in this instance would be "ALL y'all
have hijacked this here thread".
When I growed up in Kansas, we didn't use no apostrophe, just spelled
it yawl.
dem sum sirius hillsbillies in dem dere farm towns.
Farmboy
KK26
> I reck'n y'all have done hijacked this here thread, I tell you what!
I'm shocked that Ulticritic didn't beat them to it.
joad...@ec.rr.com
why would he hijack a thread thats already about refs