Defensive tips for a beginner
Alan Bernard Macdonald
I'm relatively new to the sport and if anyone has some basic suggestions
for man to man defence I would certainly appreciate it. Some questions I
have:
1. If I'm marking someone well to one side to create, say, a forced
forehand, what can I do to actually block their forehand throw? Or should
I not even worry about blocking it?
2. If I'm defending someone who is running long to catch a pass, any
defensive suggestions? I'm having a hard time keeping track of both
my man *and* where the disc is going. If I pay attention to one, I usually
lose the other.
3. What's the best way to defend against someone in the endzone?
4. Some people seem to make a lot of blocks and interceptions. I find
that I stick close to my man and I'm always right on them the second they
catch the disc, *but* I don't prevent them from catching it very often.
Not great if we're in the endzone :-(
OR, sometimes I will go all out to intercept a pass and miss it. Then I
end up about 10 feet from my mark and they have all day to throw it. Any
suggestions in either case?
5. I'm the last person back and marking my opponent who has the disc.
Suddenly another opponent is open in the endzone. Should I leave the
person I'm marking to cover the open man?
6. I'm the last person back and 2 opponents are in the endzone -
what are my best options for defending? As you may have guessed, my team
is not exactly the most defensively conscious group :-)
Thanks for listening. What a great game! My gratitude for any additional
tips anyone might have.
Excelsior!
Alan
Gino Barasa
> forehand, what can I do to actually block their forehand throw? Or should
> I not even worry about blocking it?
The object of a force is to make them throw to the side that your 6 team
mates are standing on. Why would you then try to stop the thrower from
doing what you are trying to make him do? By jumping over and trying to cut
off his flick you have just opened up the break side and screwed your team
who are now all on the wrong side. (Unless you are playing FM, eh Mike?
;7ş )
If you are fast on your feet, and looking around to see what the O is up to,
you can jump over to cut off a throw and then immediately jump back so as
not to get broken. But as a basic rule, and for beginners, you should be
content to make the thrower throw the way you are forcing and let your team
mates do the rest. An experienced player will fake his forced throw just to
pull you over and then make a fast break throw.
>
> 2. If I'm defending someone who is running long to catch a pass, any
> defensive suggestions? I'm having a hard time keeping track of both
> my man *and* where the disc is going. If I pay attention to one, I usually
> lose the other.
Here's a good idea in this situation.
Be faster then him and be able to jump higher.
Seriously though, paying attention to the disk and your player is something
you will have to learn to do. It's really not that hard. If you know which
way the force is then you know which way the throw will most likely be
heading. You don't have to glare down the thrower. Just keep glancing back
and forth every second or three and take note of the spacing on the field.
If a deep zone opens up and your guys bolts for it you probably need to get
on your horse. If your guy takes 3 or 4 hard steps towards a deep zone that
is already clogged up you can feel somewhat sure that he isn't going to get
a throw anyway and may just be faking.
Unless he's just faster than you and can jump higher. Then your are
screwed.
>
> 3. What's the best way to defend against someone in the endzone?
Hope they don't throw to him. If you are isolated the offense has a huge
advantage. You just have to watch your players belly. Don't watch his head
fakes or foot fakes. The mid-section is always where the body is going.
Stay as close to your player as you can and hope your team gets back before
you get broken down.
>
> 4. Some people seem to make a lot of blocks and interceptions. I find
> that I stick close to my man and I'm always right on them the second they
> catch the disc, *but* I don't prevent them from catching it very often.
> Not great if we're in the endzone :-(
> OR, sometimes I will go all out to intercept a pass and miss it. Then I
> end up about 10 feet from my mark and they have all day to throw it. Any
> suggestions in either case?
Again, this takes time. I find that at least 75% of getting to the disk is
paying attention to what is going on around you.
If you see an open zone and your guy and the handler are eyeballing each
other you can probably beat your guy is about to bust into that open spot
for the catch. Be ready to beat him there. It's also about your
conditioning. If the guy you are marking is faster than you then you will
probably always be a step behind. Not much you can do about that.
If I find myself on a faster guy than I should be on after a turn over let's
say, then I respect his speed and playy behind him, trying to force him to
stay short and not burn me deep. If I see a guy that I think can't handle
then a stay off of him and hope he catches it so I can get in his grill and
get a block or force a bad throw.
Sometimes if I am on a guy I feel confident I can out run I will play off of
him and let him wander into the endzone, staying just far enough away to
make him look open. I am trying to bait the thrower into tossing it to him
so I can steal the disk.
Bottom line though is that getting D's is all about paying attention to the
field, your man, and the thrower. You simply have to keep your head on a
swivle and think ahead to what the O is probably looking to do.
>
> 5. I'm the last person back and marking my opponent who has the disc.
> Suddenly another opponent is open in the endzone. Should I leave the
> person I'm marking to cover the open man?
Depends. Can you realistically catch up to the open man before the guy you
just left can get the disk to him? If not you have no choice but to mark
hard and hope you can force a bad throw. If you are the last guy back you
shouldn't be covering anyone other than the last guy back on the oppossing
team though. You already screwed up by taking the wrong guy. If you did
take the last guy back and they have more uncovered guys sprinting into the
endzone then your team mates let you down and you are probably screwed.
Unless the guy you are marking is a horrible handler he will probably burn
you if you leave him and race after another guy.
>
> 6. I'm the last person back and 2 opponents are in the endzone -
> what are my best options for defending? As you may have guessed, my team
> is not exactly the most defensively conscious group :-)
Switch teams or scream at your current team until they switch teams or start
defending.
You can't cover everyone and there is no right way to guard 2 open guys in
the endzone by yourself.
If you are finding yourself in these "3 people are open and no one else is
running to help" situations then your teams effort and heart need to be
questioned. Or maybe their conditioning. They need to practice more, put
down the Krispy Kremes or start playing disk golf instead.
Chris Van Holmes
Alan> 1. If I'm marking someone well to one side to create, say, a
Alan> forced forehand, what can I do to actually block their
Alan> forehand throw? Or should I not even worry about blocking it?
In a force your job is to stop the backhand or a forehand that goes
through you. You let the open side forehands go.
Alan> 2. If I'm defending someone who is running long to catch a
Alan> pass, any defensive suggestions? I'm having a hard time
Alan> keeping track of both my man *and* where the disc is going. If
Alan> I pay attention to one, I usually lose the other.
Don't look for the disc until you know it is thrown. Keep your eyes on
the cutter. Then when it is in the air, go get it and ignore the
cutter completely.
Alan> 3. What's the best way to defend against someone in the
Alan> endzone?
Stay between them and where they want to catch a pass.
Alan> 4. Some people seem to make a lot of blocks and
Alan> interceptions. I find that I stick close to my man and I'm
Alan> always right on them the second they catch the disc, *but* I
Alan> don't prevent them from catching it very often. Not great if
Alan> we're in the endzone :-( OR, sometimes I will go all out to
Alan> intercept a pass and miss it. Then I end up about 10 feet from
Alan> my mark and they have all day to throw it. Any suggestions in
Alan> either case?
Keep going all out and you'll figure out your limits.
Alan> 5. I'm the last person back and marking my opponent who has
Alan> the disc. Suddenly another opponent is open in the
Alan> endzone. Should I leave the person I'm marking to cover the
Alan> open man?
If you can get to them quickly, yes. The thrower can't score
intentionally but the cutter can. Cover the person most likely to
score.
Alan> 6. I'm the last person back and 2 opponents are in the endzone
Alan> - what are my best options for defending? As you may have
Alan> guessed, my team is not exactly the most defensively conscious
Alan> group :-)
If the thrower is actively looking to throw, feint toward one and bust
to the other. If the thrower is unaware, split the difference and watch
for the thrower to identify a receiver. Then go make the play.
CVH
Seamus
It seems you take a pretty lazy view... your trying to block the
Backhand completely, but you dont have to GIVE him the forehand...
Also a simplistic view when it comes to marking- you dont have to
strike in order to block a throw- ever heard of a FOOTBLOCK?
the best thing to do is make your arms about a 120 degree angle.
Assuming everyone is right handed, positioon yourself at his 'corner'
and use your right arm to block the backhand. your left arm should be
in front of the thrower, getting in the way...
Also, he's not going to stretch out that much if you're forcing him
hard, so you might be able to foot-block or even hand- block if you're
fast.
in summary, still try to limit his forehand, but keep the backhand
your main focus. Obviously.
A note on striking- it's always handy to strike for a second, just a
quick step across and jump back, if it looks like he's going to huck.
also, on a high stall count, strike because he's going to huck and
he's focused on that- you'll completely confuse him.
Damn, and I'm still is high school...
Slainte
Seamus
Edward Lee
There are plenty of throwers at the college and club level against whom it
takes quite a bit of effort to hold the (forehand) force.
They won't break you with a straight backhand...they'll break you with the
low step-around backhand, the high backhand, the hammer over your head, the
scoober past your shoulder, the low inside-out forehand under your arm, etc.
Against such a thrower you can't really stand still with limbs extended and
hold the mark...you'll have to move side-to-side and perhaps take a step
back every now and then to cut off his throws, and this will limit your
ability to harass the force-side forehand.
Eddie
r
i don't think that any other readily, available sport teaches the
footwork and positioning necesseary for ultimate like bball. just
remember that ultimate is non-contact.
Gino Barasa
> Also a simplistic view when it comes to marking- you don’t have to
> strike in order to block a throw- ever heard of a FOOTBLOCK?
My answers to him were based on his statements that he was completely new and apparently plays on a team where no one is even following their man into the endzone half the time.
I could have given him a Tolstoy on every possible way to play and how to use a speed square to make sure his arm is cocked at the proper angle while marking but in light of his questions and problems it seemed that just getting everyone to mark in one direction and narrow down the opposing teams options was a good *starting* point. Striking back and forth is a great way to mark and I do so myself. But you gotta crawl before you walk.
> A note on striking- it's always handy to strike for a second, just a
> quick step across and jump back, if it looks like he's going to huck.
> also, on a high stall count, strike because he's going to huck and
> he's focused on that- you'll completely confuse him.
Since you admitted that you didn't read the entire post you missed where I went over this concept.
not to get broken."
> Damn, and I'm still is high school...
Really? It doesn't show at all.
Seriously.
NO, Honest.
Sam Rapson
> Alan> 1. If I'm marking someone well to one side to create, say, a
> Alan> forced forehand, what can I do to actually block their
> Alan> forehand throw? Or should I not even worry about blocking it?
>
> In a force your job is to stop the backhand or a forehand that goes
> through you. You let the open side forehands go.
>
Boo to that, you should never sit there and let a thrower make a
throw, regardless of the force. YES, to start you should tell
absolute beginners to just keep the force, because otherwise they bite
on everything. But the true goal of a marker is not just to hold a
force, it's to prevent the thrower from throwing what he wants to
throw (how's that for a tongue twister.) So here's some notes on
marking
- Far and away the most important thing...get on your toes. If you do
it right marking should be the most exauhsting portion of the game,
stay on your toes and react to where the thrower is trying to throw.
- That said, don't bite too hard. Keep yourself low and centered to
give yourself plenty of flexibility to follow the thrower.
- Do everything you can to anticipate where he is trying to throw and
make sure you get there first. Things that help with this:
-watch their eyes (all but the craftiest of handlers throw where
they are looking)
-glance over your shoulder on the force side occasionally to see
if there is an open cut, if so stop the throw.
-watch the thrower, almost everyone has a "tell" that they are
going to throw, often it's something like twitching the disc just a
bit in their hands.
-get your team making strike calls, then listen to them and cut
off the open throw.
Basically do everything you can to prevent them from throwing where
they want, or if you can't do that, at least forcing them to make a
more difficult throw (which hopefully the rest of your team will eat
up.)
> Alan> 2. If I'm defending someone who is running long to catch a
> Alan> pass, any defensive suggestions? I'm having a hard time
> Alan> keeping track of both my man *and* where the disc is going. If
> Alan> I pay attention to one, I usually lose the other.
>
> Don't look for the disc until you know it is thrown. Keep your eyes on
> the cutter. Then when it is in the air, go get it and ignore the
> cutter completely.
>
Yep, this is another bit of team D, make sure you hear "up" calls from
your sidelines. When you do hear an up call turn your attention to the
disc, find it in the air and make sure you're the first one to get to
it.
> Alan> 3. What's the best way to defend against someone in the
> Alan> endzone?
>
> Stay between them and where they want to catch a pass.
>
Basically bust your ass, also make sure you and everyone else on your
team is aware of what's going on. If your man doesn't have a viable
cut and someone else's is about to get open in the endzone, go help
out, but be sure to get back to your guy ASAP.
> Alan> 4. Some people seem to make a lot of blocks and
> Alan> interceptions. I find that I stick close to my man and I'm
> Alan> always right on them the second they catch the disc, *but* I
> Alan> don't prevent them from catching it very often. Not great if
> Alan> we're in the endzone :-( OR, sometimes I will go all out to
> Alan> intercept a pass and miss it. Then I end up about 10 feet from
> Alan> my mark and they have all day to throw it. Any suggestions in
> Alan> either case?
>
> Keep going all out and you'll figure out your limits.
>
This comes with time, mostly try to keep track of where they actually
can go to get open and do everything you can to prevent them from
getting there first.
> Alan> 5. I'm the last person back and marking my opponent who has
> Alan> the disc. Suddenly another opponent is open in the
> Alan> endzone. Should I leave the person I'm marking to cover the
> Alan> open man?
>
> If you can get to them quickly, yes. The thrower can't score
> intentionally but the cutter can. Cover the person most likely to
> score.
Yep, basically your delaying until someone from your team can get
there and put on a mark. The only possible exception to this is a
really weak thrower, in which case you may be better off putting on a
tough mark.
>
> Alan> 6. I'm the last person back and 2 opponents are in the endzone
> Alan> - what are my best options for defending? As you may have
> Alan> guessed, my team is not exactly the most defensively conscious
> Alan> group :-)
>
> If the thrower is actively looking to throw, feint toward one and bust
> to the other. If the thrower is unaware, split the difference and watch
> for the thrower to identify a receiver. Then go make the play.
>
> CVH
Kinda depends on who is in the endzone, usually in this situation I'll
take the mark, because you have no chance of defending two people if
they split, but you can prevent or block a throw when marking. Do this
especially if the man with the disc has weak throws. If you are
facing a handler with the disc, then you're in trouble...try to cut
off both, if they split you guard the one that is an easier throw or
mark the thrower for a sec and hope you can delay till you get help.
Hope this helps,
Sam
SOB ultimate
Mike Gerics
> i don't think that any other readily, available sport teaches the
> footwork and positioning necesseary for ultimate like bball.
except for soccer.
Mike Gerics
> forehand, what can I do to actually block their forehand throw? Or should
> I not even worry about blocking it?
---what can you do to actually block a throw?
you can hope.
Handblocks are rare...getting your force broken is MUCH more common.
work on holding your force moreson than getting the rare handblock.
often times, going for the block results in easy breaks...which your
teammates will hate, as much as they would love a handblock. however,
getting broken is a whole lot easier than getting a handblock....so....more
breaks equals more hate from your teammates.
many times, if the marker goes for the block, and doesn't get it, they find
themselves at the end of some sort of lunging effort to get the block. the
result, quite often can be the thrower sprinting away from you while you
collect your balance and watch the disc fly to the receiver.
hold the mark...hope for the handblock...get it when the thrower doesn't
fake you out of the way...
but the rest of the time, hold your mark and be ready to run with the
thrower after the throw.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 2. If I'm defending someone who is running long to catch a pass, any
> defensive suggestions? I'm having a hard time keeping track of both
> my man *and* where the disc is going. If I pay attention to one, I usually
> lose the other.
---your eyes should constantly go from the disc to the person you are
covering...
or you should constantly be standing or running in a way that allows you to
see both the disc and the man(that's called something like...Triangle...you,
the disc and the man..in a triangle so that you can see the man and the
disc)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 3. What's the best way to defend against someone in the endzone?
---front the receiver.
if the thrower can beat you over the top to the back of the endzone...then
they are a good thrower and one that you ought not mind being beaten by
every once and a while.
Be on the proper side of the man based on the force.
Shout "no break"...but be on his hip all the time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 4. Some people seem to make a lot of blocks and interceptions. I find
> that I stick close to my man and I'm always right on them the second they
> catch the disc, *but* I don't prevent them from catching it very often.
> Not great if we're in the endzone :-(
> OR, sometimes I will go all out to intercept a pass and miss it. Then I
> end up about 10 feet from my mark and they have all day to throw it. Any
> suggestions in either case?
---if you are always on your man...you are discouraging any throw to them.
if you are always on your man...and he doesn't get the disc, you have shut
them out.
strive for shutting them out.
you're not preventing them from getting the disc? put your hands up.
get your arms and hands up so that you look big and in the passing lanes.
Try to intercept a pass and miss it?
there is no try.....do....or do not.
decide quicker.
if you can get it. do so.
if you cannot...don't try. hold your ground and put a nice hard mark on the
thrower.
If they get the disc....so what....everyone is supposed to get the disc
during a game.
however...NO ONE on the other team should be able to break the mark.
if you are laying on the ground 10 feet away rolling over to stand
up...while the thrower is sending the disc down the line for a goal...was
the effort to get the block a positive for your team? i think not.
stand up...hold your ground...hold the force.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 5. I'm the last person back and marking my opponent who has the disc.
> Suddenly another opponent is open in the endzone. Should I leave the
> person I'm marking to cover the open man?
--most would say "drop off and guard the cutter"
this makes sense.
the person with the disc isn't going to start cutting and juking and dive
over the stack for the touchdown....
but they sure as hell can throw it to the open reciever that you didn't
leave to cover!!!!
but sometimes, when you are either tired, or really feeling a handblock
coming...or if you think that the thrower is not too good.....maybe you stay
at the mark and put on a real hard force and try to encourage a sketchie
throw...
~~~~~~~~~
6. I'm the last person back and 2 opponents are in the endzone -
> what are my best options for defending? As you may have guessed, my team
> is not exactly the most defensively conscious group :-)
---try your hardest.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
get to work.
Stan Marshall
about defensive positioning. I'm sure it's available on the Web
somewhere (check www.upa.org).
He actually wrote a bunch of articles giving various tips on different
aspects of the game. They are all excellent. Find them and read them.
Jim is one of the best players in the game. Partially because he is a
great athlete, but even more so because he understands the game like
few others.
As someone else pointed out, being faster and higher-jumping that your
opponent is nice. However, downfield defense is really more about
positioning and anticipation than anything else.
(Defending hucks is also about reading the disc. Once you get to
higher club levels, pretty much everyone can read the disc well, but
on lower playing levels you can use good disc reading skills to beat
people who are better athletes than you, but not very good at reading
the disc. Once the disc is in the air, forget about your man...just go
get the disc.)
The anticipation part comes with experience (and paying attention to
the other team's tendencies while you are on the sideline), but you
can start positioning yourself correctly right away.
As seen in the "diagram" below (in which O = the offensive player you
are covering and D = you and disc = disc being forced flick by the
"/"...
O
D
/disc
...you should position yourself in such a way that the the disc, your
man, and you make a triangle. In the case above, the D should be
facing the left of the screen. This will allow him (or her) to see
both the disc and the O player using peripheral vision.
Don't be too far away from your man, but also don't be bumping up
against him. Probably about 2 to 3 yards off him (or her) is a good
general rule of thumb. You generally want to be as far off as you can
without giving up a wide open break cut. (How much you have to worry
about the break cut depends on the handling skill of the person with
the disc and the marking skill of your teammaate who is marking.
Remember, it is very difficult to take away everything by yourself.
You have to rely on your teammates to some extent.)
If you've ever played organized basketball, they probably taught you
to position yourself and use your peripheral vision in a very similar
manner.
If you are "last back" or the person you are defending has shown a
propensity to cut deep (or is not a good handler), you might want to
reposition yourself as follows...
D
O
/disc
In this case, the D can look forward and see both the O and the disc.
The disadvantage of this positioning is that, unless you are faster
than O, you are giving up the in cut to the force. If you are last
back, this should be OK as someone else should switch with you if your
guy cuts in.
The last thing you want to do is chase your man around all over the
field. As your man moves, instead of chasing him, just reposition
yourself to maintain the triangle. If you watch an experienced D
player playing D on an inexperienced O player, you will notice that
the O player runs all over while the D player hardly moves. Yet, the O
player will never get the disc because he is always covered.
As for marking, the most important thing is not to get broken. Once
you've got that down, you can start going for blocks. Just remember to
stay on the balls of your feet, keep your feet under you, and keep
your balance. Don't lunge. Also, pay attention to how far away from
the thrower you are.
If you are marking someone with limited disc skills, get right up on
them (without breaking the rules, of course) as the pressure of having
someone right in their face will make it hard for them to throw
anything. If you are marking a good thrower, back off. The good
thrower will not be intimidated by your getting right in his/her face,
and, if you are too close, will step around and break you. Against
this type of player, back off a yard so they can't step around you.
If you are last back and marking (like your person just caught a huck
but not in the endzone), start a stall but look for other opponents
running up field to get in the endzone. As soon as you see one, leave
the mark and cover that person. If there is more than one coming, take
the first one and hope a teammate gets his ass in gear. If not, there
isn't much you can do. (Note: If your playing pickup and substituting
via "last back" and you see this situation develop, stop playing
defense and immediately sprint back to your own goalline so that you
can still play on the next point :-)
Some people do make a lot of blocks and interceptions. Often these
players get good at "baiting" the throw. In other words, they know
they are faster or more aggressive than the person they are covering,
so they will let the person appear to be open and then close and block
the disc after it is in the air. This makes for spectacular plays, but
can be a bit dangerous in that, if you can't really close in time, you
are letting your person get open.
Other people play great D by just covering the person so well the
thrower doesn't even try to throw it to them. This is really great D.
Remember, even if you don't get any blocks or interceptions, if the
person you are covering never gets the disc you have done a wonderful
job. If everyone did that, the other team would not complete any
passes.
Most importantly, try to learn to *see* as well as you can. See
everything that is happenning on the field. Eventually, if your lucky,
you will start to be able to see things happenning before they
actually happen...that's when you can use anticipation to beat O
players "to the spot." You'll probably get burned a few times by
anticipating incorrectly, but eventually you'll learn what you can and
cannot anticipate. (Especially in summer leagues etc. where you play
against the same players all the time.)
One final tip...watch the good teams play. See what they do...what
works and what doesn't...and try to incorporate the good stuff into
your own game.
good luck and have fun.
stan
alan...@is2.dal.ca (Alan Bernard Macdonald) wrote in message news:<aetk2q$t6h$1...@News.Dal.Ca>...
Alan Bernard Macdonald
I'll let you know how it works.
Much appreciated.
Alan