Suggestion for NexGen Tour
Noah
they're fun to watch, but because they're full-game videos that I feel
confident showing to my friends and family that have never played
Ultimate. I've actually gotten very good results, especially among
soccer players--from the top-down perspective it's very easy to see
how the downfield movement is very similar to soccer cuts and so they
really enjoy watching (the Sockeye game in particular I thought was
very spectator-friendly)
That being said, I do find my friends getting confused when something
is called on the field. I suggest that you guys just flash up a
"Travel Called" or "Foul Called - Uncontested" marker to explain why
the video just jumped forward and everyone stopped moving. Just a
little yellow box in the corner would be sufficient.
Anyways, just a thought. I really think that these videos have
potential to show people that are not familiar with the game what high-
level Ultimate looks like, and very simple additions like this could
go a long way towards that goal. Anyone else have similar suggestions
for small tweaks in the video coverage that would make it more
accessible to people that don't know the rules of the game?
Noah
Torre
Reggie Fanelli
> for small tweaks in the video coverage that would make it more
> accessible to people that don't know the rules of the game?
---are there observers for these games?
the observers could be counting the stall, restarting play, using
whistles, calling travels, settling disputed pick and foul calls
quickly, using great mechanics and hand signals for all calls and
hustling like crazy to give best perspective.
of course.....these observers would have to be UOA officials....to be
the best....otherwise........you'd have the same 'suggestions'
Noah
Entirely separate debate. I'm just talking about very small things
with the video coverage that would improve its accessibility for
people that haven't played Ultimate before
mvuong
free, questions about whether there were observers or not
would be answered. Alas, we can not even expect that.
UBER_IHUC
Also- concerning observers. I was wondering if they are
really making many calls at all? Specifically there have
been quite a few off sides that I have noticed that have not
gotten called back. Wondering if this is intentional to keep
the pace of the game moving (something which I agree with).
Anyway- just curious what their role is on this tour
mvuong
fouls. Since this was a purely exhibition game, I don't
think offsides was worth calling.
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
in the Rhino game, with the second allowing Rhino to set up
at mid-field. So they're definitely there to call them.
I suspect that offsides we're seeing in the other games are
too close for them to bother stopping the (exhibition) game
for, especially since one of the main objectives of the game
is show off high-level Ultimate, and of the Observers to
keep the game moving, rather than slow it down.
My understanding (and what I'm seeing) is that it's standard
Observer operations, plus IRS (instant referral) on up/down
and active travel calls.
ulticritic
> Anyone else have similar suggestions> for small tweaks in the video coverage that would make it more
> > accessible to people that don't know the rules of the game?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ---are there observers for these games?
i was suggesting from the get go that nexgen network with the
uoa........their (the uoas') shit is tight
ulticritic
>
> That being said, I do find my friends getting confused when something
> is called on the field.
any sport that didnt have refs would have the same effect
=========================
I suggest that you guys just flash up a
> "Travel Called" or "Foul Called - Uncontested" marker to explain why
> the video just jumped forward and everyone stopped moving. Just a
> little yellow box in the corner would be sufficient.
or get refs to signify those things
---------------------------------------------------
Anyone else have similar suggestions
> for small tweaks in the video coverage that would make it more
> accessible to people that don't know the rules of the game?
yea, get with the program and ref up
ulticritic
small things collectively, like all those things mike just mentioned
is what will make ultimate BIG. and how is it a seperate debate when
mikes suggestion would solve your problem?
ulticritic
> It looked like their roles was just to settle contested
> fouls. Since this was a purely exhibition game, I don't
> think offsides was worth calling.
so are you saying that specific rule isnt worth respecting? how is
that supposed to jive with sotg?
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
> I agree with Noah.
>
> Also- concerning observers. I was wondering if they are
> really making many calls at all? Specifically there have
> been quite a few off sides that I have noticed that have not
> gotten called back. Wondering if this is intentional to keep
> the pace of the game moving (something which I agree with).
> Anyway- just curious what their role is on this tour
a weak one obviously
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
rsdaccount
making their calls, so a graphic showing the call is most
appropriate indicator here.
pizzapinochle
> small things collectively, like all those things mike
> just mentioned
> is what will make ultimate BIG. and how is it a
> seperate debate when
> mikes suggestion would solve your problem?
B/C mikes suggestion does nothing to solve the problem.
His suggestion was for the online video presentation. An
observer could be doing a dance in a gorilla suit, but if
they aren't in the shot on the video, no one watching the
video will know.
Hence, the suggestion that there be a graphic indicating
what was called.
Reggie Fanelli
> free, questions about whether there were observers or not
> would be answered. Alas, we can not even expect that.
--wow...that is deep.
however, if it seems apparent that someone to whom you are replying
hasn't and probably isn't going to watch the video...it seems simple
that you'd not waste your time posting, unless it was to let folks
know...who don't.
but....alas.....
mvuong
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
mvuong
Rob
Torre
> How is that UOA video coming?
+1
mvuong
> How is that UOA video coming?
Upvote.
NickR
If your goal is to spread the sport than is you could relay to the
watcher is a foul or other stoppage of play was call, I think that
would help a bit. Personally I realize when a foul or pick (or some of
the other calls) was made because of the response of the field in
general, but it is not intuitive.
Noah
> If your goal is to spread the sport than is you could relay to the
> watcher is a foul or other stoppage of play was call, I think that
> would help a bit. Personally I realize when a foul or pick (or some of
> the other calls) was made because of the response of the field in
> general, but it is not intuitive.
Yeah, that's exactly my point. I didn't even notice it when I watched
the games myself, because it was obvious to me that the throw was
called back because of a pick or a foul or whatever. Never had to
think about it
But when I showed it to people that hadn't played the sport at a high
level, they got a little confused and I found myself having to
explain. I think these videos have a potential to reach out to people
that are sports fans in general but don't have experience with
Ultimate specifically, and if so there are a few very minor tweaks
that could go a long way to increasing the accessibility
Bobus
up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaqC5FnvAEc
ulticritic
> The camera/game footage doesn't go to shots of the observers
> making their calls, so a graphic showing the call is most
> appropriate indicator here.
if that were the case why dont other sports do such? from what i've
observed they zoom in on a ref making the call
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
ulticritic
.
>
> His suggestion was for the online video presentation. An
> observer could be doing a dance in a gorilla suit,
is that how you see the roles of refs in sports when conveying calls
to the audience?
--------------------------------------------------
but if
> they aren't in the shot on the video, no one watching the
> video will know.
well, i think you just answered your own question
----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hence, the suggestion that there be a graphic indicating
> what was called.
sure, if ya want to be archaic and half assed about it
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
anakin gerics
> It looked like their roles was just to settle contested
> fouls. Since this was a purely exhibition game, I don't
> think offsides was worth calling.
--hey, lookie there......in another post, someone mentions that the
observers called offsides and awarded the penalty.
anakin gerics
> If they had watched either of the two videos that are up for
> free, questions about whether there were observers or not
> would be answered. Alas, we can not even expect that.
---what about the folks who haven't watched any of the video and
probably won't?
couldn't you just have confirmed that there WERE observers...rather
than keep the answer secret for someone else to answer, while
contradicting your claim that offsides isn't worth calling?
ulticritic
> But when I showed it to people that hadn't played the sport at a high
> level, they got a little confused and I found myself having to
> explain.
enter referees. referees = continuity. and think about
it......wouldnt this same confusion be evident when watching ANY sport
(especially new ones) the writing is on the wall people.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I think these videos have a potential to reach out to people
> that are sports fans in general but don't have experience with
> Ultimate specifically, and if so there are a few very minor tweaks
> that could go a long way to increasing the accessibility
is incorporating refs and conforming to modern sports norms considered
a "minor tweek"........or just basic common sense
ulticritic
> Speaking of trolls, this trolling Saruman video cracked me
> up:
whos speaking about trolls?......i though this thread was about
"suggestions for nexgen"
Reggie Fanelli
--is THIS trolling?
Reggie Fanelli
wrote:
> Please do not feed the trolls.
---THIS...looks like the work of one of you trolls.
Reggie Fanelli
> My bad.
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
~~~~~~
---more trolling, right?
Reggie Fanelli
> On Jul 14, 4:10 am, Bobus <roblo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Speaking of trolls, this trolling Saruman video cracked me
> > up:
--who's more the troll?
someone not trolling or the trolls talking about trolling all the
time?
anakin gerics
> B/C mikes suggestion does nothing to solve the problem.
>
> His suggestion was for the online video presentation. An
> observer could be doing a dance in a gorilla suit, but if
> they aren't in the shot on the video, no one watching the
> video will know.
>
> Hence, the suggestion that there be a graphic indicating
> what was called.
---here's a video suggestion....show the observer making the call.
couldn't that suggestion assist in some way?
Reggie Fanelli
mixnuts
think it means.
Reggie Fanelli
> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you
> think it means.
---well...you reply without letting the reader know to what you are
refering.
are you trolling?
Bulb
> You keep using that word. I do not think it means what
> you think it means.
Love it.
The irony here is that the concept of trolling probably is
inconceivable to Mike and Toad.
Bulb
> > Anyone else have similar suggestions
> > for small tweaks in the video coverage that would
> > make it more
> > accessible to people that don't know the rules of
> > the game?
>
> yea, get with the program and ref up
How is that a suggestion for a small tweak in the video
coverage? #readingcomprehensionskills
ulticritic wrote on Thu, 14 July 2011 08:21
> > The camera/game footage doesn't go to shots of the
> > observers
> > making their calls, so a graphic showing the call is
> > most
> > appropriate indicator here.
>
> if that were the case why dont other sports do such?
> from what i've observed they zoom in on a ref making the
> call
First of all, no. The only sport that does that is
football, and even then it's because there is such a big
chunk of time between when the play ends and when they
actually make the call. In basketball and baseball, the
refs/umpires are usually already in the shot when the call
is made, so there is no need to zoom in on them. Ultimate's
officiating, in terms of placement on the field and spacing
from players, is most similar to soccer, whose refs (IMHO)
hardly make any effort at all to communicate the specific
infraction committed by players.
In addition to having refs in frame, other sports have
trained, professional commentators who are able to
announce/echo the calls as the game happens. I've probably
heard a dozen different Ultimate commentators over the
years, and (no offense, but) they all sucked. They just
don't have the proper training and/or talent.
I agree that displaying the call on top of the play is the
best approach here.
anakin gerics wrote on Thu, 14 July 2011 08:39
> ---here's a video suggestion....show the observer making
> the call. couldn't that suggestion assist in some way?
Just what NexGen wants, two more cameras focused on the
observers at all times so that we can show the online
audience exactly what their signal was at the time of a
call. Brilliant.
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
> mixnuts wrote on Thu, 14 July 2011 11:04
> > You keep using that word. I do not think it means
> > what you think it means.
>
> Love it.
>
> The irony here is that the concept of trolling probably
> is inconceivable to Mike and Toad.
And yet they want us to listen and agree on the accuracy and
appropriateness of their words and ideas when dealing with
even more complicated concepts like officiating in
Ultimate.
I'm glad there are a bunch of us that DO get it.
Reggie Fanelli
> First of all, no. The only sport that does that is
> football, and even then it's because there is such a big
> chunk of time between when the play ends and when they
> actually make the call. In basketball and baseball, the
> refs/umpires are usually already in the shot when the call
> is made, so there is no need to zoom in on them.
---so....football ISN'T the only sport where the official is seen
making the call?
curiously....how far away are the officials in these videos where they
can't be seen making a call?
Reggie Fanelli
> , two more cameras focused on the
> observers at all times so that we can show the online
> audience exactly what their signal was at the time of a
> call. Brilliant.
---like all of your opinions and ideas....this is another stupid one.
great consistency.
Reggie Fanelli
> > You keep using that word. I do not think it means what
> > you think it means.
>
> Love it.
>
> The irony here is that the concept of trolling probably is
> inconceivable to Mike and Toad.
---damn....that is crazy ironic!
are you trolling?
Reggie Fanelli
> > The irony here is that the concept of trolling probably
> > is inconceivable to Mike and Toad.
>
> And yet they want us to listen and agree on the accuracy and
> appropriateness of their words and ideas when dealing with
> even more complicated concepts like officiating in
> Ultimate.
>
> I'm glad there are a bunch of us that DO get it.
---yeah....you get it....uh huh.
i don't want you to listen and agree with anything i post.
i just know that what i post is right.
and no one cares what you post.
get that.
Bulb
I love a good out-of-context quote. My post was in response
to the claim that "other sports ZOOM IN on the refs when
they make a call." Football is the only sport that does
that.
It's not a matter of how far away the observers are, it's
the fact that they are not in frame (perhaps not all of the
time, but most of the time). The camera would have to zoom
out for the online audience to see them, which would
sacrifice the quality of the video. Seems like the simplest
solution is for a graphic overlay.
Smoothie
> ---damn....that is crazy ironic!
> are you trolling?
This is just like when my four year old son learns a new word, and
uses it repeatedly with varying degrees of correctness. Except it's
different, because he generally figures out the correct usage
eventually.
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
> i just know that what i post is right.
> and no one cares what you post.
Well except, of course, THAT statement, which isn't right.
First time you've ever been wrong though, eh Mike?
Euh
> heard a dozen different Ultimate commentators over the
> years, and (no offense, but) they all sucked. They just
> don't have the proper training and/or talent.
Things would be better if we could ban a few expressions like "sick
grab", "sick pull", "sick bid"
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
Agreed... Those terms should be reserved for plays that
truly and literally deserve it. Like when someone's playing
so hard that they actually vomit while making their bid.
Sick Play indeed!
mixnuts
"ohhhh!" when a player makes an awesome play.
joaq
> Also incredibly unprofessional: when the commentators
> yell "ohhhh!" when a player makes an awesome play.
Yeah gosh, I'm so disappointed, act more profesional!
Aguilar
> yell "ohhhh!" when a player makes an awesome play.
Can't tell if being sarcastic...
In case you aren't, here's some sarcasm:
Yeah, you're totally right... I can't imagine a serious
sportscaster ever announcing a serious sporting event and
doing something so unprofessional as getting amped when
something awesome happens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB2KOhEceNM
--
Aguilar!
mvuong
> Can't tell if being sarcastic...
>
> In case you aren't, here's some sarcasm:
>
> Yeah, you're totally right... I can't imagine a serious
> sportscaster ever announcing a serious sporting event and
> doing something so unprofessional as getting amped when
> something awesome happens.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB2KOhEceNM
Nice video pull.
Euh
sick video!
mixnuts
shouldn't ever get excited, just that the yelling doesn't
add anything from the presentation. When UV puts so much
effort into other aspects of the video being
professional-looking, it doesn't make sense that they'd have
commentators that talk the same way as your buddy might
narrate a game on the sideline. Who knows though, maybe some
people prefer informal sportscasting, but I think it ruins
the professionalism of clips, like the Zip catch at the
start of this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq3pg0JcJSI
In any case, we're not going to have professional
sportscasters announcing ultimate games at this point, so
we'll have amateur sportscasters whether we like it or not.
I'm just saying that there are small steps that even amateur
broadcasters can take to improve their presentation.
Rob
fact being produced by the NexGen guys themselves so they
deserve all the credit for the professional presentation.
I'd hate to take credit for that. UltiVillage is promoting
and distributing the videos
They've raised the bar and we intend to match their efforts
going forwards. Stay tuned.
Rob
N8
My beef with announcing is with what they choose to add
volume to.
Watching the best of Gus Johnson clip actually further
demonstrates this point, he adds emphasis to *words* getting
louder as the excitement/crowd noise builds. Once while the
play is still of uncertain outcome he drags on the word
baaaallll. That's ok. My problem is when someone
speaks/shouts/exclaims louder than their mike can handle.
It's not pretty to listen to when it gets all distorted.
(obviously, we're working with what we can, and I'm thankful
for that, but the point still stands, test the mikes ahead
of time and get a feel for the tolerance limits)
Mostly it bothers me when the announcer exclaims the long
ooooohhhhhh type noise. Almost a vocalized pause, but not
quite. I'd rather hear them say what a grab really loud and
excited then hear what sounds like to be my buddy on the
chair next to me making grunting noises.
Personally, I'd rather see a graphic with each line up as
the pulls about to go up/right as it's in the air then hear
the names again and again and again. To me, that doesn't
add much. I'd rather hear what type of zone that is, that
they just played for half the field, where are the holes,
what should blank be doing to break the defense, where the
next goal should be etc. To me, hearing the names makes me
turn off the sound, which is disappointing because I think
so far all of the UV/NG footage has done a remarkable job of
getting both the sideline noise and the fan noise (better so
then nearly any televised sport I've watched)
anakin gerics
>
> This is just like when my four year old son learns a new word, and
> uses it repeatedly with varying degrees of correctness. Except it's
> different, because he generally figures out the correct usage
> eventually.
--so....YOU're trolling?
...because i thought this thread was about next generation
ultimate???????
anakin gerics
> > i just know that what i post is right.
> > and no one cares what you post.
>
> Well except, of course, THAT statement, which isn't right.
> First time you've ever been wrong though, eh Mike?
---no.
one time.....
i thought i was wrong.....
and.....
i wasn't
so....i was wrong then.
eh?
are you canadian, eh?
because...i...eh...am half...
Euh
> ---no.
> one time.....
> i thought i was wrong.....
> and.....
> i wasn't
Trolling mode ON
You said you did nothing wrong. then the footage showed that....
anakin gerics
> fact being produced by the NexGen guys themselves so they
> deserve all the credit for the professional presentation.
----hell yeah...that shit is nice work!!!
anakin gerics
---as long as i continue to learn....i'm'a make mistakes.
huh?
Torre
They should be promoting the Patagonia Play of the Game more
on social media. Maybe they have and I've missed it, but I
just saw that segment last night. Good stuff.
Jordan
> Back to the original idea of this thread:
>
> They should be promoting the Patagonia Play of the Game
> more on social media. Maybe they have and I've missed it,
> but I just saw that segment last night. Good stuff.
Yeah back to the topic.
I wonder if there has been any attempt to get in touch with
mainstream sports networks..hear me out. Shows like
SportsNation on ESPN and others occasionally show clips from
non-traditional sports (see Andrew Fleming's catch at WUCC
2010). And the fact of the matter is that this is some of
the highest quality video and production done on high
quality ultimate ever, it would be worth it to reach out
some of the sports networks with the best footage from the
season (maybe at the end of the tour) and try to fish out
some support or get some feedback on how to improve. Worst
they can say is no. And I'm sure they have worked hard to
pick up sponsors but I really hope they will send out lots
of footage to companies post-tour to show off their work and
bring in more money.
--
http://kenyonultimate.wordpress.com
Euh
> on social media. Maybe they have and I've missed it, but I
> just saw that segment last night. Good stuff.
The sockeye-nextgen one should be called: "6'6'' white man can't
jump !"
Euh
1) The game is too slow & players are cheaters so we need observers
2) observers make mistakes, so we need instant replays
3) instant replays slow the game. Back to 1)
Titus Tradewell
Revolver game there are graphics on screen to indicate
fouls. I'm only 2 minutes in, but it's nice to see a rapid
turnaround on feedback. They deserve your money - they've
pushed coverage of the sport farther in 4 games than
anything else I've seen.
Announcers still need improvement, but that will come. There
has to be some college player out there looking to break
into broadcasting. What better audition tape than submitting
full-length games? Whether or not the company has heard of
ultimate, good preparation and interesting notes (which the
internet has made abundant) are still impressive. Somebody
make it happen.
Kyle
scored and who assisted. With out visible names on the
jerseys it is hard to tell.
thefan
-- Idea taken from a buddy at the bar tonight -- use those
unobtrusive graphics to show multiple things from the game.
when a foul is called, why not put up the number and name of
the player who called it, or who it was called on. travel
called by whom, or on whom.
in the same vain, it would be cool if there was some mention
of the weather conditions. it was obviously pretty windy in
the Revolver game, but i'm not sure if people unfamiliar
with ultimate would pick up on it. i noticed the scoreboard
swinging and it was evident to me as a player that the disc
was being affected by the wind, but there was no mention of
it. late in the game there is a throw to #6 on NexGen, Cody
Borjkland, that hits him in the foot after he jumps to catch
it. just because i was looking for it i could see that the
disc jumped and dipped in the wind, but people unfamiliar
with frisbees wouldn't pick up on it and it might look
pretty damn goofy.
surely the folks working on it are striking a balance
between the time limit and the quality of the product and i
think it's exciting to have what we have, but with those
graphics there is a wealth of information that could be
given without any intrusion on the game play. keep up the
great work.
a note to the teams that are playing the NexGen team in the
future. wear jerseys with a number on the back. despite
agreeing with Toad on a number of his points, i haven't once
noticed the mismatching hats, but the Rhino game was
frustrating to watch without being able to tell the Rhino
guys apart very well.
Noah
> in the same vein, it would be cool if there was some mention
> of the weather conditions. it was obviously pretty windy in
> the Revolver game, but i'm not sure if people unfamiliar
> with ultimate would pick up on it. i noticed the scoreboard
> swinging and it was evident to me as a player that the disc
> was being affected by the wind, but there was no mention of
> it. late in the game there is a throw to #6 on NexGen, Cody
> Borjkland, that hits him in the foot after he jumps to catch
> it. just because i was looking for it i could see that the
> disc jumped and dipped in the wind, but people unfamiliar
> with frisbees wouldn't pick up on it and it might look
> pretty damn goofy.
>
It wouldn't be as windy if we had proper referees!!!
But yeah, seriously, that's amazing that they implemented this change
so quickly, and it looks great! This project totally deserves your
$15, guys
I completely agree with other comments to use similar graphics to add
more information to the game. Just a simple "Goal: Jimmy Mickle /
Assist: Cody Bjorklund" would be a great addition to help everyone
(including us Ultimate players that aren't familiar with these
players) get more involved in the game
Great job, NexGen!
Noah
fan to recognize something happening onscreen, that's a victory. If
they see the word "foul" or "travel" or "assist", they can say "hey, I
know what that is!" . . . Little things like that add legitimacy to
the broadcast, make it look more like a sport and less like something
you do with your dog. My soccer-playing friends watching the games
got most excited when they could say things like, "man, that looked
just like Barca's ball movement" or when they could recognize that you
give up yardage down the sideline but that strikes back to the center
of the field are dangerous. People like to see things that they
recognize
And, to preempt the responses, yes I understand you feel that refs/UOA/
whatever would add "legitimacy", but that's not applicable for the
very specific issue of visual/editing modifications to the NexGen
tour, so go get your own thread ;)
Reggie Fanelli
>
> > ---as long as i continue to learn....i'm'a make mistakes.
>
> > huh?
>
> 1) The game is too slow & players are cheaters so we need observers
> 2) observers make mistakes, so we need instant replays
> 3) instant replays slow the game. Back to 1)
---huh?
instant replay?
what are you talking about?
ulticritic
>
> I love a good out-of-context quote. My post was in response
> to the claim that "other sports ZOOM IN on the refs when
> they make a call." Football is the only sport that does
> that.
bzzzt WRONG, lax does it too......and lax is probably the most similar
sport to ulti in scoring, stoppages, etc
---------------------------------------
>
> It's not a matter of how far away the observers are, it's
> the fact that they are not in frame
if ya focus in on em while they are making the call (and zoom in) they
would be, right? i mean, it aint like ther is anything else going on
that the viewers would miss, right?
------------------------------------------
ulticritic
> I guess my idea is that every time we can get someone who's a sports
> fan to recognize something happening onscreen, that's a victory. If
> they see the word "foul" or "travel" or "assist", they can say "hey, I
> know what that is!"
ya mean like how people in general know what refs are and fully
understand, appreciate and accept their roles as being an intragel
part of sports entertainment?
------------------------------------------
. . . Little things like that add legitimacy to
> the broadcast,
and refs wouldnt? speaking of which, what would BIG THINGS add to the
legitimacy of the sport?
------------------------------------------------------
make it look more like a sport and less like something
> you do with your dog.
dont "sports" usually have refs though?
---------------------------------------------
My soccer-playing friends watching the games
> got most excited when they could say things like, "man, that looked
> just like Barca's ball movement" or when they could recognize that you
> give up yardage down the sideline but that strikes back to the center
> of the field are dangerous. People like to see things that they
> recognize
like refs?
----------------------------------
>
> And, to preempt the responses, yes I understand you feel that refs/UOA/
> whatever would add "legitimacy", but that's not applicable for the
> very specific issue of visual/editing modifications to the NexGen
> tour, so go get your own thread ;)
why, when this one is perfect for emphisizing the enhancement refs
would provide for this scenerio? you seem to contradict yourself
here.....as you are advocating a more legit feel, admit that refs/uoa
would provide it, yet then go on to discount it as somthing that would
help in this case........which is kinda queer imo
Reggie Fanelli
> Nah, I was being serious. I'm not saying that sportscasters
> shouldn't ever get excited, just that the yelling doesn't
> add anything from the presentation.
---upsa commentators SHOULD keep, or begin saying things like....
'chilly O'
and
'hot D'
and
'sick bid'
excitement is great.....dumb phrases that ultimate players are hooked
on for some dumb reason....are dumb.
oh....
'scoober', when used incorrectly like every ultimate players does....
Reggie Fanelli
> 1) The game is too slow & players are cheaters so we need observers
> 2) observers make mistakes, so we need instant replays
> 3) instant replays slow the game. Back to 1)
--any clarification about this weird post yet?
Scott
> in the same vain, it would be cool if there was some
> mention of the weather conditions. it was obviously
> pretty windy in the Revolver game, but i'm not sure if
> people unfamiliar with ultimate would pick up on it. i
> noticed the scoreboard swinging and it was evident to me
> as a player that the disc was being affected by the wind,
> but there was no mention of it. late in the game there is
> a throw to #6 on NexGen, Cody Borjkland, that hits him in
> the foot after he jumps to catch it. just because i was
> looking for it i could see that the disc jumped and dipped
> in the wind, but people unfamiliar with frisbees wouldn't
> pick up on it and it might look pretty damn goofy.
I would suggest a simple graphic that pops up at the start
of each video showing the teams playing, location, weather
conditions, jersey colors, and any other relevant info. A
table could convey that info quickly and easily. Also, in
some of the black vs. white jersey-ed games, it's not easy
to see which team is which. I saw that they've put a little
color indicator by each team in the score bar, but the
NexGen one is always green-blue.
For the foul/travel/pick calls, I like the pop-up
notification a lot, especially the way it pops up on either
side of the score bar depending on which team committed the
infraction. However, it always displays the 'X' logo no
matter which team committed the infraction - maybe replace
that with the other team's logo when they commit fouls? I.e.
the spaceship logo for Johnny Bravo.
Anyways, I hope this doesn't get lost in the observer debate
thread that is somehow in the middle of this one.
Raffi
score from the most recent game (in the upper left hand
corner of the Nexgen website) until after the broadcast goes
up?
Titus Tradewell
footage and elite level of play) is that it's as close to
watching live as most of us can get. I love Rob's DVDs, but
I always know who wins.
I've been avoiding the NexGen site altogether to avoid
scores. I now know the results of the Chain and Ring games,
though I wish I didn't.
Noah
game until I've watched it. This is the closest thing we've ever had
to an ongoing, live ultimate season and I'm really enjoying it!
Charlie
The transition between halves feels kinda of awkward and I
think it would be a good point to add in some additional
non-game footage. Personally I think filming part of nexgens
huddles would be really cool. I think it would help give the
videos an even more espn-esque feel and the players
propesctive on how the game is going would be sweet.
Scott
> Personally I think filming part of nexgens huddles would
> be really cool.
I completely agree with this. They showed part of NexGen's
huddle during a timeout in the game vs. Chain Lightning. It
was really cool to see the thought and discussion process.
ulticritic
there are soooooo many suggestions one could make to help imrove the
presentations of these games but the basic goal to achieve that level
of success would be to simply conform to ALL the sports entertainment
norms that we currently see on ALL the normal sports presentations we
see all the time. no need to try and reinvent the wheel here with
some kind of "alternative" angle like some wierd hybrid player/ref
system.......JUST CONFROM TO THE CURRENT STANDARDS........accross the
board.
KK26
the $15 video package. I know friends who searched the website and had
a hard time finding where they could buy the full game videos... not
knowing just to go to the ultivillage website. Maybe adding "buy full
games" link under the video drop down on the header of the website
would help.
-KK
ulticritic
.
shouldnt these games be FREE.......and be shown live. they should
just get sponsors to absorb the costs of the webcasting like other
sports do. i'm pretty sure there are live webcasts of all kinds of
surf contests on the web and i dont think they are trying to bilk
viewers for 15 bucks a shot with those presentations.
also, i wonder if this "tour" has or will inspire anyone to try and
create a new ultimate "league". my dtv just went out due to heavy
rain and i was in the middle of watching a string of shows on the nfl
network about the emergance of the afl back in the early sixties. it
sure seems that ultimate is ripe for the picking for some bright
entrapanuer to challange the dull and stale way that usau showcases
elite level ultimate.
i mean, i'll have to say that this tour is the most cutting edge thing
that has happened to this sport in some time and its no wonder that
its an initiative that is independant of any usau effort. i still
think its too bad the nexgen people didnt conspire with mike g and the
uoa in order to take full advantage of the obvious best version of
ultimate thats currently going. who knows, maybe mike will take his
version of ultimate and work out some kind of summer tour of his own
with all the best elite teams to compete in similar condensed tourny
formats as his college 8's events. my suggestion would be to have
events with as little as 4 club teams so that it could be done with as
little as two fields and events that could take place in a day. i
mean, seriously, who has the time to dedicate a full weekend to
spectating ultimate. AND SHIT, if ya had a friday night game you could
probably run a double elim format and wrap it up with a saturday night
finals with only needing one field. when are ultimate promoters learn
that when it comes to showcasing ultimate less is more.
>
> -KK
Mike
> shouldnt these games be FREE.......and be shown live.
> they should
> just get sponsors to absorb the costs of the webcasting
> like other
> sports do. i'm pretty sure there are live webcasts of
> all kinds of
> surf contests on the web and i dont think they are
> trying to bilk
> viewers for 15 bucks a shot with those presentations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics
Bulb
[insert Toad rant about how basic economics don't apply for
some random reason]
ulticritic
shouldnt it be the nexgen people that read this.......i mean,
obviously all the sports that webcast their events for FREE (and
live)know somthing about economics that nexgen dosent.......and that
includes all the other ultimate related webcasts too.
Reggie Fanelli
> obviously all the sports that webcast their events for FREE (and
> live)know somthing about economics that nexgen dosent.......and that
> includes all the other ultimate related webcasts too.
---wow. there's that amazing rant you predicted bulbous.
?there are other sports who air webcasts for free that have their
sponsors pick up the cost?
huh?
Mike
> ?there are other sports who air webcasts for free that
> have their
> sponsors pick up the cost?
> huh?
yes there are. these sports have a larger audience than
ultimate, which allows for more potential customers for the
sponsors of these sports. it follows that the sponsors would
receive more return on their investment of advertising and
that they would be willing to pay more in order to remain a
sponsor. this allows the corporations who are broadcasting
the sports to realize a profit without charging for viewing
the games. also people have other outlets for viewing more
major sports which offer them no incentive to pay for
internet streaming (note that this does not correspond to
ultimate. either pay to watch the games in HD, or watch
brief clips of the games and shoddy youtube videos which are
typically just highlight reels. there's no alternative)