UV - Making myself accountable
Rob
so I've decided to come out of my shell and try to draw some of you
out as well. I typically use this message board strictly to post new
COTDs and promote my site and have resisted putting myself out there
too much. While I believe I've done my share to promote the sport over
the past 4 years, I know that I can do more and want to do more, so
I've decided to take the plunge.
What does this mean? It means that I am going to make myself
accountable to you the RSD reader. Why? Because I work in my home
office by myself and currently lack accountabity to anyone. So here I
go.
In 2009 I will...
1. Begin posting a minimum of 2 new COTDs per week.
2. Will release the Labor Day 08 Open UVtv content next week. (by Feb
18th at the latest)
3. Will release an instructional DVD before June 1st. I've had this on
the shelf for way too long.
4. Begin to sponsor more tournaments (min. 1 per month).
And this one is personal.
5. I will lose the 20 lbs I gained during my wifes pregnancy. My goal
is 190 lbs by College Nats and I weighed in at 210 on Monday.
I'll post more when they come to me, but for now this is a good start.
I can't promise that I'll succeed in all of these but I'm asking you
to call me out when I come up short. Now here is my challenge to
you....
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO THIS YEAR TO HELP GROW OR IMPROVE THE SPORT
OF ULTIMATE?
Rob
joad...@ec.rr.com
wow......if only the upa administration would write such a post and
make such claims........only instead of posting cotd's on rsd they
could post about whatever the fuck it is they are doing. Why not
start by justifying why you guys squashed the IRS and explain to us
why you are so resistant to it in the first place?????
Rob
you should read my post again and then stair in the mirror for an hour
or two.
Rob
joad...@ec.rr.com
well i guess its too late for that but c'mon......your post was purely
imformative right??? i mean, its not like you are trying to generate
dialouge or discussion.
On a different note, i applaud you for showing that you intend to be
held accountable and i only wish that the upa would reach out to its
consumers in the same way that you are.
Dont expect me to not be a royal pain in the ass untill i get some
answeres on this whole IRS issue though. and while we are on the
subject, whats your stance on the irs? surley incorporating it would
only help improve the quality of your product, no?
Rob
capitalized my question at the end so that people wouldn't miss it.
Doesn't capitalization work for you?
So let's begin with you Toad. What are you going to do this year to
improve / grow the sport of ultimate? And trolling doesn't count. This
is a serious question.
This challenge goes out to anyone and everyone. Isn't this the year of
CHANGE? Has Obama not ispired you to get off your hands to do more
than just type? Let's use this forum to do more than just rant or
promote or even inform. Let's use it to become accountable to one
another. Let's use it to draw out good ideas and discuss them
inteligently. As long as RSD is dominated by the nay sayers,
legitimate ideas will fall through the cracks because people don't
want to get caught up in the trolling.
To sum it up, I think it would be great if the DOers started talking
more and the TALKers started doing more.
Sorry if I'm ranting now. I'm going for a run. Twenty pounds to go.
Rob
H
http://upa-board.blogspot.com/
Here's the blurb from their blog site about what they're hoping to
accomplish by blogging:
"The purpose of this blog is to allow our membership to get to know
their board members a bit more, learn about the issues they care most
about, provide some insight into what it's like to be a board member
and shed some light on how the UPA works. These posts reflect the
personal opinions of board members, and are not official UPA
statements or policy. We hope that you check back here periodically to
read posts by different board members, and if you see something that
interests you, that you engage with your board member by emailing them
directly. The board of directors are your representatives at the UPA-
see what they have to say, and get involved!"
While it's not daily updates of the comings and goings at UPA HQ that
you seem to want, maybe it's a start.
H
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Actually I am hoping for responses to this thread. In fact I
> capitalized my question at the end so that people wouldn't miss it.
> Doesn't capitalization work for you?
>
> So let's begin with you Toad. What are you going to do this year to
> improve / grow the sport of ultimate? And trolling doesn't count. This
> is a serious question.
Is that what you call what i do....."trolling"? I call it "fightin
the power". which, seriously, IS what i will continue to do!!!!! I
mean, i'm doin to them just what you are askin me to do to
you.......which is "callin em out". And, lets face it, nobody does
that better than me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This challenge goes out to anyone and everyone. Isn't this the year of
> CHANGE? Has Obama not ispired you to get off your hands to do more
> than just type? Let's use this forum to do more than just rant or
> promote or even inform. Let's use it to become accountable to one
> another. Let's use it to draw out good ideas and discuss them
> inteligently. As long as RSD is dominated by the nay sayers,
> legitimate ideas will fall through the cracks because people don't
> want to get caught up in the trolling.
all my ideas are legitamate. but are you callin me a nay sayer
(whatever that is)? IRS is a GREAT IDEA!!!! and more than 2/3's of
those that experienced it at solstice agree with me. And you KNOW i
have tons of other legit ideas. Giving refzervers whistles is but
another. And as obvious as it may be.....its still a legit idea.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To sum it up, I think it would be great if the DOers started talking
> more and the TALKers started doing more.
where does the upa administration fit into that equasion (i'm assuming
they are the doers that aint talkin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sorry if I'm ranting now.
why be sorry. right there is a big part of the problem. why cant
people just speak there mind here. why do you people have to act like
your walkin on eggshells when being critical of the upa and/or the
sport. It felt good to let that out, didnt it rob.
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Hey Todd. The UPA is keeping a blog now.
like i dont already know that. Funny how no one from the upa had the
forsight to come onto rsd, like rob did, and tell us about it. check
that, its not funny......its par for the course. AND on top of that
rob was beggin us to be critial of him.
Dont ya think it would be nice if the upa had the same courtesy as rob
when it comes to reaching out to their consumers.......which are the
exact same people?????
Its my feeling that if more people, like yourself and rob, "called
out" and were more critical of the upa then they wouldnt be so lame.
But even as a loyalist, i fail to understand how you can justify the
upas' obvious attempt to squash the IRS, especially after it was found
to be the most popular rule change that was experimented with at
solstice. I'm all ears though.....give it your best shot, as i know
no one from the upa wants to touch this with a ten foot pole.
H
BladingSawBladeWithBladesComingOutOfItAndStuff
for a while, but am just now doing it. 7-9 pm on Fridays! That's
indoor time in Wisconsin for you.
Goals: nice flick for everyone; hucks for a third of them; and
convincing everyone that cutting from the back of the stack is more
effective than cutting from the front. Modest goals, but you got to
start somewhere.
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Was that a response to me, or the voices in your head?
does it matter? just answer the fuckin question! if ya got the balls
Rob
And Toad, I have no problem with you calling out the UPA. I have no
problem with you pushing the IRS. What I have an issue with is that it
seems you've given up on actually doing anything. Was your NUA
experience so tramatic that you can't get back on your horse?
Keep on posting to RSD. I'll bet there are people who come here just
to read your rants and that's good for me cause it means more eyeballs
for my COTD posts. So fight on fighta. But do something too!
Rob
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Nice BladingSawBlade... That's a great start.
>
> And Toad, I have no problem with you calling out the UPA.
well i have a problem with you NOT calling out the upa
--------------------------------------------------------
I have no
> problem with you pushing the IRS.
well i have a problem with you NOT pushing the irs (if you agree with
it.........of which??????)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I have an issue with is that it
> seems you've given up on actually doing anything.
how have i givin up? i'm on the front lines every day. Sure it may
seem to you as i'm "doing nothing" but you never know how influential
to the silent majority. Nave ya heard they are doing a version of mlu
in the uk. Think i wont take a little credit for that? I invented
mlu jack
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was your NUA
> experience so tramatic that you can't get back on your horse?
obviously not as i tried to bring it back in 04 and then morphed it
int mlu in 06.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Keep on posting to RSD.
uhhhhh, ok. thanks for reminding me
---------------------------------------------------------------
I'll bet there are people who come here just
> to read your rants and that's good for me cause it means more eyeballs
> for my COTD posts.
so wheres my cut?
--------------------------------------------------------------
So fight on fighta. But do something too!
fighting IS doing somthing, isnt it? more so than most do.
Garrett
Rob, how about changing the format for the COTD page back to what it
used to be before, or at least something similar. Only being able to
see 4 clips at a time is frustrating...thanks!
Rob
Besides, that was 3 years ago. "What have you done for me lately?"
Rob
Rob
> used to be before, or at least something similar. Only being able to
> see 4 clips at a time is frustrating...thanks!
I haven't fully figured out this new template but I'll see what I can
do. Plus I'll begin releasing the COTD archive next week as well.
Rob
Rob
Depends on what you mean by fighting and what you mean by most people.
If posting endlessly on a forum is akin to fighting the US Army would
not have any problem recruiting would they.
As for "most people" I can assure you that "EVERYONE" that works for
the UPA or volunteer for them are doing more than you.
Rob
stephen...@gmail.com
I play against actually know and play by the rules of our sport. Last
weekend I went to the Trouble in Vegas Observer clinic. I just
personally spent $140s on rule books - 1 for each player on my team
and 1 for each team captain coming to PresDay this weekend. I feel
like we can only grow as a sport if our referees (us) are competent
with the rules.
To those who would say there should be 3rd party refs (I might be part
of that crowd on some days), I say that there isnt a single high level
professional athlete that does not know the rules of his sport. Its
almost too simple to say: knowing the rules is a huge advantage in any
sport.
Peace,
Pumba
Air Squid TD
degnan...@gmail.com
> Im gonna work harder to make sure my teammates, myself, and the people
> I play against actually know and play by the rules of our sport. Last
> weekend I went to the Trouble in Vegas Observer clinic. I just
> personally spent $140s on rule books - 1 for each player on my team
> and 1 for each team captain coming to PresDay this weekend. I feel
> like we can only grow as a sport if our referees (us) are competent
> with the rules.
>
> To those who would say there should be 3rd party refs (I might be part
> of that crowd on some days), I say that there isnt a single high level
> professional athlete that does not know the rules of his sport.
Donovan McNabb would like a word with you.
Point(s) taken though.
degs
Grant
journalism is not comprehensive enough simply because there isn't much
incentive to simply write something for the sake of writing.
Fortunately the people do write about the travels and our fair game do
so because they have the passion to do so. Guys like Match, 808, and
Jeters post information that holds value regardless of differing
opinions with their readers. I feel there needs to be more
information available on the games themselves to the players and
fans, who enjoying following along with the season and not merely
playing it and seeing published scores with no backstory. I've
enjoyed a lot of your footage over the years and there really isn't
any better way to watch a game unfold when you can't be there in
person.
Last fall I did a write-up of CCC and enjoyed it immensely. While I
hardly consider myself a journalist, this year I plan to do at least 4
college tournament write-ups starting this upcoming weekend with Queen
City Tune Up. I will hold myself accountable to post my write-ups
within two days of the end of the tournament. I also want to receive
more feedback to make it a better product for the readers. See
everyone in Charlotte this weekend.
Grant
ultimatep...@gmail.com
doing more tournaments again. ECC will probably be the start.
Someone else is going to have to do Potlatch though.
If there were something I'd like to add, it would be identifying
individuals who appear in the pictures.
matty j
Here's my list:
I will continue to work to grow the GrandMasters division, holding the
super phenomenal Hamptons tournament in May with Sas Peters, and
attending GM events in Boston, Philly, and Montreal.
I will bring a team from the NY metro area to compete in the GM
championships in Denver.
I will captain a summer B league team and teach younguns how to play
the game right.
I will be available as a consultant to WUDI Board members as needed to
discuss issues of the day to day operations and long-term planning of
our summer league.
I will continue to promote local pickup in Westport, CT and ensure
that our relationship with the school and town remain on good terms so
we can continue to receive free field use.
I will send messages to my UPA Board rep to let them know what my
thoughts are on the major issues in the sport today.
I will be a spectator of ultimate at both local tournaments and at the
national championships in Sarasota.
I will continue to teach my youngest sons to throw and catch, and get
my 5 year old on the field for his first pickup ultimate game this
summer.
I will drink beers after summer league with all the 20 year olds in
the parking lot and rehash stories of the glory years of NYNY ultimate
with Skip until at least midnight 3 times this summer.
I will support Todd's efforts to get the UPA to be held accountable.
I will donate money to the KU Horrorzontals ultimate team.
MJ
ager...@yahoo.com
>
> 1. Begin posting a minimum of 2 new COTDs per week.
> 2. Will release the Labor Day 08 Open UVtv content next week. (by Feb
> 18th at the latest)
> 3. Will release an instructional DVD before June 1st. I've had this on
> the shelf for way too long.
---i don't know what a COTD, a UVTV or a DVD is?????
what are they?
ager...@yahoo.com
--yep...that'll keep 'im out of your thread!!!
ager...@yahoo.com
> more and the TALKers started doing more.
>
> Sorry if I'm ranting now. I'm going for a run. Twenty pounds to go.
>
> Rob
---who are you, rob?
and...are you a doer who is gonna start talking now?
because i've long been a talker and a doer....what should i do now?
ager...@yahoo.com
> professional athlete that does not know the rules of his sport.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----McNabb didn't even know there were ties in the NFL.
Rob
> and...are you a doer who is gonna start talking now?
> because i've long been a talker and a doer....what should i do now?
Hey Mike, I would agree that you have been both a doer and a talker.
Keep it up.
For the past 4 years I have been a doer ( www.ultivillage.com ), and
now I intend to talk more.
Rob
matty j
talk a doo dle do
keep up the good work mr g
joad...@ec.rr.com
>
> > To those who would say there should be 3rd party refs (I might be part
> > of that crowd on some days), I say that there isnt a single high level
> > professional athlete that does not know the rules of his sport.
>
> Donovan McNabb would like a word with you.
ditto
stephen...@gmail.com
Ok, I didn't know about McNabb - interesting story. But doesn't he
prove the point EVEN MORE?
How absolutely ridiculous is it that he didn't know about ties? How
much criticism did he get in the sports media and from fans? A lot
(from what I’m reading about it now).
In ultimate, there are often situations on the field were no one
confidently knows the correct restart after a series of calls. A 2
minute argument ensues and finally someone says that they "are like
85% sure and we should just do it my way and get it over with" and
that’s what happens out of collective frustration. Later people say:
"Grrr... thats such a big problem with ultimate" but really, the
fault
lies on the shoulders of the players and their lack of knowledge.
The McNabb thing might be akin to a thrower, who’s team is down
11-12,
just tossing the disc away when the hard cap blows because he thought
whoever had more points at the horn won. Not knowing the rules of how
hardcap works (finish the point, if there is a tie play another) is
inexcusable but the situation is not unthinkable - how many guys on
your team have more than a hazy guess at the real rules? Yeah, most
know the hardcap rules, but what rule, that they don't know, is going
to cost you the game-to-go?
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Ok, I didn't know about McNabb - interesting story. But doesn't he
> prove the point EVEN MORE?
no! it proves the point that you cant NOR SHOULD YOU rely on players
knowledge and interpretations of the rules but rather there should be
official arbatratiors that have that "certified" knowledge and should
enforce them. The players should obviously know the rules......but
just so the can FOLLOW them. Leave the enforcement up to a third
party. This way you take away any partiality and or inconsistant
interpretations. duh. can you imagine two nfl football players
arguing over whether or not games end in a tie after the ot period.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> How absolutely ridiculous is it that he didn't know about ties?
there were others that didnt know too (hines ward for one). can ya
blame em though?.....after all its a pretty fuckin stupid rule. I
would just assume that they would just assume that nfl execs arent
THAT stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How
> much criticism did he get in the sports media and from fans? A lot
> (from what Im reading about it now).
where the fuck have you been????
-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In ultimate, there are often situations on the field were no one
> confidently knows the correct restart after a series of calls. A 2
> minute argument ensues and finally someone says that they "are like
> 85% sure and we should just do it my way and get it over with" and
> thats what happens out of collective frustration. Later people say:
> "Grrr... thats such a big problem with ultimate" but really, the fault
> lies on the shoulders of the players and their lack of knowledge.
the fault lies on a system that relys on partial players to make
impartial and consistant judgements and interpretations of the rules.
Qualified personel (or the lack ther of) is the issue. so you tell
me......would it be easier to get 2 to 4 people on the same page as to
that "knowledge", or 30 people??? And even if ya get all players
"certified" to have a certian "knowledge" of the rules youve done
nothing to deal with the partiality dynamic.
get a clue dude.....and quit tryin to reinvent the wheel. You gus
remind me of the indians dragin their shit around on sticks prior to
their knowledge of the wheel. But even they have the common sence to
adopt that concept once they were aware of it. what the fuck is you
peoples excuse is what i want to know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The McNabb thing might be akin to a thrower, whos team is down 11-12,
> just tossing the disc away when the hard cap blows because he thought
> whoever had more points at the horn won. Not knowing the rules of how
> hardcap works (finish the point, if there is a tie play another) is
> inexcusable but the situation is not unthinkable - how many guys on
> your team have more than a hazy guess at the real rules?
maybe that just points to the utter stupidity of those cap rules AND
the whole notion of playing to points. I tell ya, you people have no
ide how much more this sport could/would/should be simplified by
simply conforming to the obvious "real sport" norms (ie, timed games,
refs, etc)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, most
> know the hardcap rules, but what rule, that they don't know, is going
> to cost you the game-to-go?
like george carlin said as a guest star on the simpsons....."simplify
man......simplify"
stephen...@gmail.com
thread-hijack - im honored. I don't want to contribute to the hijack,
but I want to respond. Toad, you are Jigsaw
In large part, I agree with your push for much more active
officiating. Yet I still believe knowing the rules is vital. I know
that when I became a soccer referee at age 12 I also became a much
better player.
Here is a more clear example:
Pull is OB, thrower walks it up, gets to the brick-mark, sees that the
Defense is not ready, and waits for a marker to check in the disc.
If that player knew the State of the Disc rules (II.R.2) and/or the
specific rule governing this situation (VIII.B.10) , he would know
that he could touch the disc to the ground and start play without the
D's acknowledgment. Especially against a team with the misconception
that they DO get to check-in the disc after a OB pull, this rules
knowledge is a HUGE advantage. Still, I see LOTS of throwers
presenting the disc for a check when its unnecessary.
ager...@yahoo.com
> now I intend to talk more.
---what's ultivillate and what are all those letters that i asked
about previously....OTCH, DvTV, DRD????
H
Rob runs a website called UltiVillage. Type "www.ultivillage.com"
into your browser to see it. He travels to tournaments, films big
games, makes videos of them, and sells DVDs and online access to the
videos. He does some advertising for his service in part by releasing
Clips Of The Day, which he often abbreviates COTD. You can see his
posts on this newsgroup frequently. UVTV stands for UltiVillage TV,
and is his online paid video subscription service. DVD means
something like Digital Video Disc, and was a late 90's replacement for
VHS tapes. Most people have DVD players in their homes now, and the
ability to make DVDs is available to anybody with a somewhat recent
home computer and some cheap software. Robs DVDs are often set to
music, and catalog entire tournaments, sometimes with commentary.
Rob's DVDs are widely used as recruitment tools to show non-players
what the game looks like at its highest current levels.
H
Rob
> about previously....OTCH, DvTV, DRD????
COTD = Clip of the Day
UVtv = Downloadable tournament coverage
DVD = even you know this one
ultivillate = ultivillage the website I started 4 and a half years ago
and have plugged shamelessly on RSD for the past 4 year. I know you
were off the internet for a while but it supprises me that someone as
interested in the progression of the sport and as plugged in to RSD
has never heard of UV. I obviously still have work to do.
What does UV do? We cover (videotape) the top tournaments in the world
and then release the footage as either a DVD, UVtv or both. This past
year we began live streaming tournaments, beginning with WUGC 08 then
on to Canadian Nats and finally the UPA Club Championships.
That's the cole notes version. Now you know.
Rob
Rob
Pippin
I am going to continue coaching the Hofstra Women's Ultimate Team
(M45...it is a sweet name. It is the location of the Seven Sisters
constellation in the sky) We are looking pretty decent and our goal
is to place in the top 5 at ME Regionals, we believe if we really push
ourselves we can get ourselves into a Game-to-Go...it is only the
second year the team has existed and we are very excited about our
future. My personal goal as the coach is to develop the players and
help them find a summer club team to continue playing with during
summer break.
The team has also just been selected by Five Ulitmate to be one of
their Sponsored Growth Focused Programs.
I recently attended a UPA Coaching Clinic to see if I could get
anything out of it. I was surprised to find it was more of a
discussion group with a "director" to lead the group. Our Clinic was
run by Ben Van Heuvelen and it was a great experience. He was a great
discussion leader and made it a very constuctive enviornment. I
highly recommend the coaching clinic to anyone interested. (you also
get some nice stuff from Five Ultimate)
Hofstra is hosting a tournament this semester and I am working to go
above and beyond and make the event a quality tournament.
The most challenging goal I set for myself this year is to get the
Women's Sports Foundation involved with Ultimate and attempt to use
their resources to organize high quality youth/college tournaments in
the NY, NJ area. The foundation was founded by Billie Jean King, a
professional tennis player, and is located near the Hofstra Campus.
We hope to be developing a relationship with them in the future to
help promote ultimate to younger girls and women. (we are also hoping
they will attend our tournament...possibly as a sponsor)
I also want to write tournament summaries from the women's tournaments
I attend while coaching. As a NUMP panel member I always wish more
information was available about the women's division, I will do my
small part to make more information more available. I would also like
to interview some high level teams and write about their season/goals/
ect. Sort of like the articles on MSSUI.com (a website I enjoy).
-Pippin
Coach Hofstra Women's Ultimate
and
#17 Puppet Regime
ager...@yahoo.com
thanks H
> > about previously....OTCH, DvTV, DRD????- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rob
like it.
Mike, I actually emailed you last year offering to host the results
from your NUMP panel on my website. That offer still stands.
Rob
ager...@yahoo.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---i have never refused anyone who was interested in posting the NUMP
rankings at their site.
shoot me a direct email and i'll get you on the list of folks to whom
i send the rankings.
simonatalbot
- Run more tournaments. There's been a bit of lamenting lately in
Australia about how there aren't many tournaments any more. Already
run one, and have another two or three in the works.
- Create some revenue streams for my club (run a league, schools
coaching, sponsorship). We've been existing month-to-month for five
years and it's time we got some capital saved up.
- Assist new college teams starting up. There's been a massive bunch
of youth players start university this year and some of them are at
unis without a team. I'm giving them a hand in starting a team up.
- Implement a 2nd division at Australia's equivalent of college
nationals. This will actually be quite easy due to the small numbers
of teams compared to the US, and the reasons/aims for this are vastly
different to those of the UPA's when/if they choose to do the same.
- Coach a local high school team. We've been talking about it for
years, but now there's a few of us who can do it, and we'll start a
high school league in our city.
- ...I'll probably think of 3 or 4 other things as soon as I hit Send.
joad...@ec.rr.com
ya might want to add.......getting up to speed witn the US in the
whole observer dept (new rule changes and all)
simonatalbot
between points never happen in the college scene down here. Doesn't
happen in the club scene either that I've seen.
UPA rules =/= WFDF rules.
Bobus
President, he's generally unaware of the world outside of the USA and
would be hard pressed to find Australia on a map. "WFD-what? The
wrestling organization?" You get the idea...
Jeff
way to compete for national championships elsewhere on the planet?
> > whole observer dept (new rule changes and all)- Hide quoted text -
joad...@ec.rr.com
> You'll have to forgive our boy Toad. Like his hero, our previous
> President,
dont even try that......my boy is RALPH...and certianly not that sell
out obama. he's almost as bad as w.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
he's generally unaware of the world outside of the USA and
> would be hard pressed to find Australia on a map.
hello mcfly, i'm pretty sure simon was stickin it to american ultimate
more so than me. But i do know whats going on in the uk.....dou you.
---------------------------------------------------------------
"WFD-what?
federation. duh
---------------------------------------------------
The
> wrestling organization?" You get the idea...
the idea that you are sidesteppin the issue of simon calling out
america for having to resort to using refzrevers????? we got the
idea.
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Nah, not happening.
well, thats a rather bold contention. are you suggesting that aussies
are "above" that spiritually.........or that you just have superior
time contraint player management skills???
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 minute rule arguments and 2-3 minute breaks
> between points never happen in the college scene down here.
there for you are somehow "better" that those of use in america that
use and appreciate that "third party arbatration" facilitation???
Tell us how long your argument rules are??? and how long you take
between score and pull???
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't
> happen in the club scene either that I've seen.
well i think i remember readin some stuff, on rsd maybe, about exesive
arguing at the world event you guys held there recently? maybe those
were foriegn teams though? either way, dont your other austrailian
sport have refs? I dont get it, are you trying to flourish your
nationality as a whole or just the ultimate frisbee playin population
of it? At the very least you seem to be slamming america for being
"argumentative" and "ineffecient", no?
>
> UPA rules =/= WFDF rules.
we know, wfdf rules dont allow for ANY observers what so ever. Other
than that they are basically the same.
joad...@ec.rr.com
> so this whole self-officiated spirit stuff is not a myth but a working
> way to compete for national championships elsewhere on the planet?
i'm pretty sure austrailia is just "behind the times".
simonatalbot
introduced to reduce the amount of time rule arguments and other such
discussions took. I'm assuming there was some sort of need for
observers, or in your case the need for refzervers, At last year's
college nationals (aka Australian University Games) the longest
discussion I saw took maybe 90 seconds...two novice players didn't
know what the call should have been following a collision, they asked
another player who wasn't sure what the stall count resumed on, then
they asked their captain, who told them what the go was, play resumed.
Time between points...point scored, defense did the walk of shame back
to their line, subbing along the way, both teams called lines, disc up
ready to play - however long that takes? 60-90 seconds?
College players are taught from day one "these are the rules, and
everyone plays by them" and everyone seems to accept that. It could
also be that college ultimate here is much smaller than the US (20-
something mixed teams as opposed to a few hundred men's/women's) and
everyone knows each other and are less likely to get in each other's
face. If saying that makes me seem like I'm up on my high horse, then
so be it.
moremail...@yahoo.com
> If saying that makes me seem like I'm up on my high horse, then
> so be it.
No Simon, it doesn't. Your commitment to promote the sport and expand
opportunities for people to play in Australia is awesome. If you help
inspire new players and they as individuals come to prefer the idea of
refs, that's great. If they love the sport as they learn it, w/o
refs, that's great. Either way, you are helping to grow the sport you
love, as you know it and as you love it. No reason you should invest
your time otherwise.
joad...@ec.rr.com
> I'm going off what I've read on RSD in the past - observers were
> introduced to reduce the amount of time rule arguments and other such
> discussions took.
that as well as managing other time constraints. Evoking "stopped time
effeciency" is the phrase they use in the officiating industry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm assuming there was some sort of need for
> observers, or in your case the need for refzervers,
not in mine.....as i no longer play. The term refzerver just points
to the hybrid of the traditional observer role(on the more passive,
referal tasks) combined with the normal and active traditional ref role
(on active calls like travels, counting stall, up/down and in/out).
And if ya look up the term referee (one who is refered to in case of
dispute) you will see that the discriptively accurate term even for
the old style observers would be "referee". I'm assuming that you
guys down under think the term "referee" to be some kind of "ultimate
taboo" as well???? especially as you seem to flourish how much more
pious you are in that you dont NEED any 3rd party arb down there.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At last year's
> college nationals (aka Australian University Games) the longest
> discussion I saw took maybe 90 seconds.
seems about 87 seconds too long to me........but only 70 secs of
wasted time as per upa rules.........as they are still proponents of
providing a 20 second allowance to practice their "conflict resolution
process". I'm sure you guys will one day see the merrits in
establishing a consistant time constraint in such cases.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
two novice players didn't
> know what the call should have been following a collision, they asked
> another player who wasn't sure what the stall count resumed on, then
> they asked their captain, who told them what the go was, play resumed.
and just think, if ya had professionals out there whos JOB it is to
already know and enforce those rules that situation would have been
resolved IMMEDIATELY. Are you saying, though, that you ALLOW novice
players that dont know the rules that well to act as player refs?????
and you dont find that completely idiotic???? imo, having players
that dont know the rules and have to learn them on the fly in a
championship game is nuthin to flourish.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Time between points...point scored, defense did the walk of shame back
> to their line, subbing along the way, both teams called lines, disc up
> ready to play - however long that takes? 60-90 seconds?
well......which is it??? 60 secs or 90? Dont you think that time
span should be kept in a consistant manner???.......for the sake of
the continuity of the presentation if for nothing else??? again, you
seem to be flourishing the randomness, inconsistancies and management
of the standards of aussie ultimate.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> College players are taught from day one "these are the rules, and
> everyone plays by them" and everyone seems to accept that.
but how can that be when, as per your own example, THEY DONT EVEN KNOW
THEM TO BEGIN WITH!!!!!! Or are you simply saying that you guys
accept the fact that not everyone knows all the rule to the same
extent? and if they dont know them to the same extent they probably
cant interpret them the same. throw in the partiality factor and you
have the making for one big mess. But I'll assume that ultimate is
even more of a "joke of a sport" down tthere as it is here.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It could
> also be that college ultimate here is much smaller than the US (20-
> something mixed teams as opposed to a few hundred men's/women's) and
> everyone knows each other and are less likely to get in each other's
> face. If saying that makes me seem like I'm up on my high horse, then
> so be it.
well it really seems more like 1) you guys are victims of the whole
sotg prapaganda machine, and 2) that ultimate is still in somewhat of
a primative stage there. BUT, it still seemed like you were making
some kind of a statement as to how you guys are "spiritually above"
americans in that you can and do play under the "player controled"
sotg clause where as in the usa we have had to resort to a third party
official to "control" various aspects of rule enforcement and game
management. Personally i believe that we are just more evolved
because we see and admint the flaws in the human pshyce that we all
posses and that MUST be policed. IMO, there is nothing to flourish
about being primitive......so i was more just yankin your chain and
tryin to stirr shit up. Its hard to disreguard the whole "were so
pious, we dont need observers" attitude though.
joad...@ec.rr.com
<moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 15, 6:25 pm, simonatalbot <SATal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If saying that makes me seem like I'm up on my high horse, then
> > so be it.
>
> No Simon, it doesn't. Your commitment to promote the sport and expand
> opportunities for people to play in Australia is awesome.
i'm not sayin his efforts arent worthy and appreciated (even though
with the coat tail ridin that often occurs in ulti, that may be hard
to tell)......i'm just sayin that they may as well cut to the chase
and start incorporating observers into their comp (at least on a trial
basis) as well. Is there really a need for simon to arrogantly deny
the value and merrit of observers incorporation when its obvious that
here in the usa a new trail is being carved in this area. Seems like
the best stategy for an organizer like himself would be one of being
openminded and receptive to such cutting edge
developments........rather than arrogant and self rightous dismisal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you help
> inspire new players and they as individuals come to prefer the idea of
> refs, that's great. If they love the sport as they learn it, w/o
> refs, that's great.
but how can they make that CHOICE if they dont have the OPTION to
begin with???? And how in the hell would you expect this aussie group
to be tolerant of refs when, as per simon, they dont seem to be the
least bit tolerant or receptive to observers. Which, lets face it,
observers are the stepping stone to refzervers......which are the
stepping stone to full on refs. The sad part is that they (like
americans with refs) dismiss the notion of this incorporation while
being completely IGNORANT of the reality of there enhancement to the
actual playing (not to mention, spectating) experience.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Either way, you are helping to grow the sport you
> love, as you know it and as you love it. No reason you should invest
> your time otherwise.
spoken like a true anti ref spirit zealot.
Rob
wheel but he's not even a wheel. Just squeeky.
Anyone else care to share their goals for 2009?
After posting last week a good friend of mine called me up and asked
if I was having a Jerry McGuire moment. Maybe that sums it up. So that
begs the question...
Who's comin' with me?
Rob
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Hey Simon, thanks for posting. Ignore Toad, I would call him a squeeky
> wheel but he's not even a wheel. Just squeeky.
thats pretty accurate......and i'm comfortable with that role. i can
squeek about then being lame down under just as easy.......but c'mon
rob, its like they are completely opposed to even
obsesrvers.......dont you find that a little strange?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Anyone else care to share their goals for 2009?
is this like some kind of new years resolution deal? floss every day?
exorsize (didnt you say somthing about goin for a jog?)? stayin away
from fast food?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> After posting last week a good friend of mine called me up and asked
> if I was having a Jerry McGuire moment. Maybe that sums it up. So that
> begs the question...
>
> Who's comin' with me?
whos coming with you where? to the land in which ultimate has
evolved? a place called "the future"?
Rob
But I specifically asked you not to highjack this thread and make it
into another of your refrants. How many threads do you need to
highjack? Why do you attack people who are making a difference just
because they are not pushing your agenda?
Rob
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Toad, I am not opposed to active observers or refzervers if you will.
or full on refs, right?
-----------------------------------------------------
> But I specifically asked you not to highjack this thread and make it
> into another of your refrants.
well, we both knew goin in that that wasnt going to happen
--------------------------------------------------------
How many threads do you need to
> highjack?
the answer is blowin in the wind
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you attack people who are making a difference just
> because they are not pushing your agenda?
i mearly suggested that he might want to add "gettin up to speed with
observers" to his "down under agenda". he's the one that subtly
attacked americans for our "needing" observers (of which it seems to
becoming more of a desire than a need, dont ya think?) and implied
that we were both "argumentative" AND either "ineffecient" or inept"
when it came to game management.
It was a pretty obvious slam to me. why you deny is what i dont
understand. Its like no one ever wants to create any waves around
here at all.
Rob
unrelated threads it becomes annoying. Why don't you post about how
you are going to attend an observer clinic and then influence change
through your actions? Just a thought.
joad...@ec.rr.com
> I don't mind waves, but when the same wave keeps popping up in
> unrelated threads it becomes annoying.
well, there is ONE way to get me to stop.........maybe two
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why don't you post about how
> you are going to attend an observer clinic
because i've already posted that i wont.....two days is too much of an
investment for me to train for somthing just so i can volunteer and
sacrifice MORE time and effort. I'm more front office material
anyways. If you had of only elected me into office i could be putting
this energy into intiiating all kinds of proposals........and i
wouldnt be "annoying" you now. oh well, its all good.
---------------------------------------------
and then influence change
> through your actions?
squeeking is an action imo.......and you know what they say about
squeeking wheels.
joad...@ec.rr.com
> unrelated threads it becomes annoying.
also......this wasnt quite the same wave. this was one of observed
ultimate vs. unobserved ultimate.
and there were natioalistic insinuations on the part of simon.......imo
moremail...@yahoo.com
> squeeking is an action imo.......and you know what they say about
> squeeking wheels.
you already admitted you're not a squeeky wheel, you're just squeeky.
what they say about squeeky wheels is that they get things done.
people who are squeeky are just annoying. sometimes entertaining.
but mostly just annoying.
moremail...@yahoo.com
i know you are but what am i.
joad...@ec.rr.com
<moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > squeeking is an action imo.......and you know what they say about
> > squeeking wheels.
>
> you already admitted you're not a squeeky wheel, you're just squeeky.
eh, wheel, hinge, critic.......whatever. point is, just tend to it,
and it wont squeek.......which some of you seem to be doing.......just
at a rather slow pace.
---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> what they say about squeeky wheels is that they get things done.
who says i anit gettin things done? i'm evoking dialouge.....and
never short on great ideas on how to make ultimate better. of course,
had you of elected me you would have seen me rollin right along.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> people who are squeeky are just annoying. sometimes entertaining.
> but mostly just annoying.
thats a matter of perception. i personally feel that people that
squeek about people bein squeeky is even more annoying........and
completely void of any entertainment value whatsoever.
joad...@ec.rr.com
<moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > spoken like a true anti ref spirit zealot.
>
> i know you are but what am i.
seriously????
Rob
incessant rants, poor use of the english language, and confrontational
style do nothing for your cause. In fact I'll bet more people would be
willing to intelligently discuss the use of refs on RSD if not for you
consistently dragging the topic into the gutter.
I may be dead wrong on this but your poor showing in the UPA board
election suggests that the silent majority you claim to represent
doesn't like the way you represent them. Or the alternative is that
not many people want refs. Which do you believe to be true?
Rob
joad...@ec.rr.com
> Toad, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that your
> incessant rants, poor use of the english language, and confrontational
> style do nothing for your cause. In fact I'll bet more people would be
> willing to intelligently discuss the use of refs on RSD if not for you
> consistently dragging the topic into the gutter.
dream on. and just to show your wrong, go ahead and start an
intelligent discussion about refs, i'll stay off it, and we'll see how
many "more people" would be willing to participate.
--------------------------------------------------------
>
> I may be dead wrong on this but your poor showing in the UPA board
> election suggests that the silent majority you claim to represent
> doesn't like the way you represent them. Or the alternative is that
> not many people want refs. Which do you believe to be true?
i believe that the silent majority simply stayed silent. It cant be
that they dont want refs as the latest craze is the ref style active
travel call. are those my only options? and who counted them votes
again???
Felix
the official British Uni Sports Association, bringing it in line with
Uni Open.
- Continue coaching Uni of Sussex team & encouraging the players to
the local club's open & invite-only trainings.
- Keep local club (Brighton)'s trainings fresh.
- Make sure everybody finishes their drills at above trainings (as per
blw's rant).
- Do whatever I can to help our junior team win Nationals this year.
- Finally finish the Uni 2007-2008 (+09?) DVD.
- Donate more DVD stock to the Junior scene.
- Make my archive of schedules freely available for others to utilise
as they wish.
- Film & create a DVD of the recently renamed MLU:UK tournament.
- Film xEUCF 2009, create DVD, and at least think about adding
commentary.
- Bring back the red mohawk for Paganello.
- Retain enough motivation to get involved in committee discussions /
votes when necessary for observer trials, despite being bored by them
thanks to the guy who'll likely drown this post.
Thanks for leading the way yet again Rob!
Felix
Push Pass Productions
Uni Women's Coordinator
UKUA Scheduling group
Mohawks + Brighton coach
http://www.pushpass.co.uk/
joad...@ec.rr.com
> - Film & create a DVD of the recently renamed MLU:UK tournament.
what was it renamed to?
-------------------------------------------------------
> - Retain enough motivation to get involved in committee discussions /
> votes when necessary for observer trials, despite being bored by them
> thanks to the guy who'll likely drown this post.
drown this post???? i'm keeping it afloat!!! and know this, i
founded MLU so if not for me its highly likley that you wouldnt be
filming a UK MLU tourny to begin with. so recognize!
what are "observer trials" anyways? observer tryouts???? and what
makes them boring?
But HEY, its just nice that all you guys' new years resolutions didnt
include any bullshit about preserving sotg........how refreshing.
Felix
The Rylands. I have no idea what this means, but the renaming was due
to the UK/Euro community's biggest problem with MLU:UK being that the
word Ultimate existed in the title - as they saw it, self-officiation
was one of the key rules of Ultimate (like how if you could run with
the disc you wouldn't call it Ultimate), so changing that rule meant a
name change was necessary. If you didn't follow any of the
discussions that's fine (I can't imagine you could have done & held
your tongue, with some of the stuff people were writing), but then
don't use things like "But i do know whats going on in the uk.....dou
you." in your arguments.
> and know this, i
> founded MLU so if not for me its highly likley that you wouldnt be
> filming a UK MLU tourny to begin with. so recognize!
Yep I know that & commend the work & bought the DVD & got excited, but
since then your endless rants about dischoops... I mean referees, has
sapped my enthusiasm somewhat (though granted I should never have let
it).
> what are "observer trials" anyways?
In that MLU:UK is trialling having referees, and talk of it has
inspired a few people to discuss the possibility of trialling having
observers at UK Uni Nationals - though this could yet be a couple of
years away.
Felix
joad...@ec.rr.com
> > what was it renamed to?
>
> The Rylands. I have no idea what this means, but the renaming was due
> to the UK/Euro community's biggest problem with MLU:UK being that the
> word Ultimate existed in the title - as they saw it, self-officiation
> was one of the key rules of Ultimate
Then they dont know a whole lot about the history of
ultimate.......because the original rules of ultimate contained a
section called "officials" which stated "a ref can be used to make
all calls which are final. if no ref is availiable the players make
the calls" (or somthing like that). of course the word "ultimate" for
a sport IS a pretty stupid name so it really makes no difference to
me.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(like how if you could run with
> the disc you wouldn't call it Ultimate), so changing that rule meant a
> name change was necessary.
thats almost the stupidest shit i've ever herd. and where exactly is
that "rule" that says you cant use refs in ultimate?
----------------------------------------------------
If you didn't follow any of the
> discussions that's fine (I can't imagine you could have done & held
> your tongue, with some of the stuff people were writing), but then
> don't use things like "But i do know whats going on in the uk.....dou
> you." in your arguments.
i read a little of your version of rsd. this guy who has a blog
called cultimate posted a link on his blog to the MLU UK thread. I
tried to join in but i'm not all that computer savvy so i couldnt. As
for that quote, i was charged with not knowing about anything outside
of the us.......particularly austrailia.......where they are
spiritually above having to resort to a third party arbatration
system.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > and know this, i
> > founded MLU so if not for me its highly likley that you wouldnt be
> > filming a UK MLU tourny to begin with. so recognize!
>
> Yep I know that & commend the work & bought the DVD & got excited, but
> since then your endless rants about dischoops... I mean referees, has
> sapped my enthusiasm somewhat (though granted I should never have let
> it).
uhmmm, that sounds like a YOU problem to me
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > what are "observer trials" anyways?
>
> In that MLU:UK is trialling having referees, and talk of it has
> inspired a few people to discuss the possibility of trialling having
> observers at UK Uni Nationals - though this could yet be a couple of
> years away.
by trialling, do you simply mean experimenting? Either way, i hope
they do some pre tourny "trialling". who knows, if the host team at
the 06 MLU potlatch event had of "trialed" a little, MLU might still
be alive in america.
MrP...@gmail.com
> by trialling, do you simply mean experimenting?
Lolz. English, motherfucker, do you speak it?
Two countries, separated by a common language.
~p
Felix
> section called "officials"
Plus there was a ref for the first ever inter-college or inter-
highschool game wasn't there? I remember seeing one in a photo in the
history book. That might've also been the infamously poorly spirited
match, though I might be mixing stories here.
> thats almost the stupidest shit i've ever herd. and where exactly is
> that "rule" that says you cant use refs in ultimate?
Next to the rule that says you can't use net-firing guns to bring down
hucks?
> by trialling, do you simply mean experimenting?
Yeah basically - like an experiment with a view to keeping it going if
it works out well. I didn't realise that was a difference in our
languages - it doesn't mean training, which I've stressed to the
Rylands guys is very important for their refs.
Felix
joad...@ec.rr.com
> > the original rules of ultimate contained a
> > section called "officials"
>
> Plus there was a ref for the first ever inter-college or inter-
> highschool game wasn't there? I remember seeing one in a photo in the
> history book. That might've also been the infamously poorly spirited
> match, though I might be mixing stories here.
i believe you have them mixed up as there have, most definitely, been
more that just ONE infamously poor spirited matchs. but, since you
are fully aware of this historical use of a ref in ultimate YOU
obviously dont believe ultimate to not be ultimate just with the
simple addition of refs, right? People got hung up on that shit here
in america too. i remember back in the mid 90's when i was just
starting the NUA having upa board members call me at my house and try
and tell me i couldnt do what i was doing AND if i did i "had better
not think about calling it ultimate". What a bunch of insecure and
desperate dweebs, eh?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > thats almost the stupidest shit i've ever herd. and where exactly is
> > that "rule" that says you cant use refs in ultimate?
>
> Next to the rule that says you can't use net-firing guns to bring down
> hucks?
just what i thought
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > by trialling, do you simply mean experimenting?
>
> Yeah basically - like an experiment with a view to keeping it going if
> it works out well. I didn't realise that was a difference in our
> languages - it doesn't mean training, which I've stressed to the
> Rylands guys is very important for their refs.
never herd the word trial used in that way.
ager...@yahoo.com
> > by trialling, do you simply mean experimenting?
>
> Lolz. English, motherfucker, do you speak it?
> Two countries, separated by a common language.
--i don't know what trialling is.
are they going to court?
is there going to be a trial?
is it trialing or trialling?
if you're moving slow, is it snailing or snailling?
if you're walking on a trail...are you trailing or trailling?
who the fuck speaking english says trialling anyway?
i've been around english speaking people my whole life and haven't
heard trialling?
i've heard experimenting....it's when you try something
MrP...@gmail.com
> > > by trialling, do you simply mean experimenting?
>
> > Lolz. English, motherfucker, do you speak it?
> > Two countries, separated by a common language.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> --i don't know what trialling is.
Toad, Gerics.... Dictionaries, gentleman. It's right in there: "A
test of the performance, qualities , or suitability of someone or
something." Ever hear of time trials? Same thing. Probably a more
common verb in British English than American, but we use it too.
Literacy... it's a hell of a drug.
~p
ultimatep...@gmail.com
joad...@ec.rr.com
> I like this quote from toad, a few posts up:
>
> "two days is too much of an investment for me"
to leave the comfort of my own home so that i can get certified to
become a volunteer. damn straight!
Peter Mc
continue to encourage Illinois, Iowa and Arkansas teams to compete in
our state games (residents of those states are now eligible.).
2. Continue to develop the Midwest Disc Sports Collection holdings and
communicate with disc sport researchers and potential donors.
3. Search for more disc sport film preservation $$
4. Encourage others to preserve and properly store their disc sport
correspondence, films, photographs, tournament & club records,etc.
5. Continue to sign paperwork for the college men’s team and remind
the players that I have no interest in meeting their parents at
graveside ceremonies due to reckless driving during tournament
weekends.
6. Continue behind-the-scenes correspondence with Toad's wife,
encouraging her to give him the "big boy" talk at Least semi-annually.
Later,
Peter McCarthy
MDSC
Columbia, MO
http://whmc.umsystem.edu/mdsc
"Archiving disc sports since 1997."
rhbi...@gmail.com
I was really hitting up Ultivillage a lot. What happened to two new
videos a week? I promise I'll buy something really soon. rhb.
Rob
I'll get 4 videos up this week to make up for last week. Stay tuned.
Rob