Please find below the National Ultimate Media Panels Mens Top 20 for
the weeks beginning Feb 25, 2009.

3 columns this week, rank, team name and points earned.  First place
votes are in parentheses.
5 different teams earned first place consideration from the Panel
members.

This is Florida's second straight time atop the polls, following
Wisconsin's 2 straight #1 rankings.
Carleton was #3 in each of the first three polls, but leapfrogged
Colorado this week to claim #2.

rank    team    pts
1       Florida(11)     406
2       Carleton(6)     394
3       Colorado(2)     382
4       Georgia(1)      337
5       Wisconsin(1)    310
6       Oregon  297
7       Michigan        245
8       Pittsburgh      238
9       Cal  Berkeley   234
10      Notre Dame      143
11      Iowa    139
12      North Carolina  126
13      Washington      120
14      Ohio State      109
15      Virginia        108
16      Arizona 103
17      Texas   97
18      Harvard 86
19      UC Santa Barbara        83
20      Stanford        61

Other teams earning votes this week included....
Western Washington 57, British Columbia 54, Cornell 44, North Texas 41
and Minnesota 29

Comments welcome.

--Pitt and Virginia should be higher.

--North Texas should be in the top 20 without a doubt.  41 TOTAL
points for the WEEK?  That's it???

--Mike, are you sure you tabulated that correctly?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---am i tabulating correctly?
+/- a few points????????

i'm trying to tabulate perfectly........

normally i subract votes from some of the teams that i don't like.
(that is a fucking lie.  just so we're straight....i begrudgingly
count all votes, even for the teams i don't like)

I cannot believe there are teams in the top 20 who have only been to
one tournament.

I cannot believe there are teams in the top 20 with the records that
they have.

I cannot believe there are teams in the top 20 who have beat
absolutely nobody of worth

I cannot believe there are teams in the top 20 because they have a
name in College Ultimate

I cannot believe there are teams in the top 20 just because they went
to TiV

What I can believe is that the idiots who voted and decided on these
top 20 teams are just that; idiots. You are obviously terrible at
Ultimate on-the-field and clearly just as bad off-the-field. We are
all worse off for having ever looked at who you think are the Top 20
teams in the Nation.

Thank you once again for neglecting North Texas.

- Doc

The voters for the RRI are also idiots.  They voted them to 34th!

On Feb 25, 9:35 am, cougarultim...@yahoo.com wrote:

While these poll results are interesting to see, it's nice to know
they don't mean shit when it comes to the Sectionals/Regionals/etc.

On Feb 25, 11:35 am, cougarultim...@yahoo.com wrote:

i recommend spending less time posting on rsd, and more time preparing
to beat teams on sunday of morning.

i would also recommend submitting a bid next year to be a voting
member of the NUMP. the more people voting around the country, the
less likely a team gets overlooked.

that said, it isnt even march yet, if you are worried about where your
team is ranked in the NUMP, well thats just silly. luther is ranked
even lower than north texas, im sure their rant about why the rankings
blow is about to be posted...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- If North Texas was in the top 20 you would think that NUMP was the
shit!  At practice, you'd be all like "Hey did you guys see that we're
in the top 20 on NUMP this week.  We're great and so is the NUMP
Panel."

N Texas should be in the top 20 though.

On Feb 25, 11:40 am, Torre <themadhatta...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Nothing means shit when it comes to sectionals...everyone gets in.

Which means it's pointless(like your statement), outside of practice
reasons, to count anything, or base anything on rankings...which no
one does, but it would be cool if NUMP did have a bit more
organization to it...kinda like the sport itself.

NUMP needs to designate a handful of tournaments in each region that
are counted towards NUMP voting....based on results and the actual
play of the teams in these tournaments only.
This way when a team goes to an easy tournament, the record won't
count towards rankings.

Maybe eventually when the sport gets big enough, rankings will begin
to matter who gets into sectionals, or atleast who gets into the
bigger NUMP sanctioned tournaments.

So far I have only voted on the women's side this year as I have not
been exposed to the mens game yet this spring.

But I thought I would give my opinion about how hard the voting can
tend to be, or at least give you a look at what I consider when I was
doing my personal rankings.

First off, I tend to Ignore RRI as much as possible.  Espcially early
in the season RRI is a horrible indicator or how strong a team can
be.  Example: last year my friends who are still at hofstra on the
mens team played one day of a tournament and sunday was rained out.
But on saturday they played some pretty weak teams and won most game
with scores of 13-1 or something like that.  This made their RRI
skyrocket and they were ranked 19th in the country for a week or two.
We all got a kick out of it but we knew it was horribly skewed.

So I really try to ignore RRI until I start to consider other things
like:

Strenght of tournaments attended.  For example I thought winning
Presidents Day out in California (at least for the women's side I
looked at) was much harder than winning queens city tune up (so UCSB's
tournament victory looks much more impressive than Michigan's, not to
take away from Michigan, who also looks to have a great team this
year, but UCSB seems to have played stronger teams throught the entire
weekend to earn their Victory).  I looked at the overall strenght of
all teams present and determined that to be true.

I look at head to head results.  Who beat who.

Sunday counts for a little bit more in my book.  Losing one on
saturday is ok if you crush on sunday and win it all.

I also spent a good amount of time looking at scores from teams who
have played common opponents but not each other.  In all sports this
is a tricky field to navigate.  Some teams just match up better
against certain other teams.  So I attempt to gain as much knowledge
as possible from this without placing to much stock in this.

I look at each teams record and then try to examine quality wins.
wins against other "Top" teams.

I also look at overall record, first at face vaule, then I investigate
and see if they have blowout losses, or really close games.  If Team X
is 6-4 and has close losses to teams ranked higher than them or a win
over a team ahead of them I consider that to be better than Team Y who
is 8-2 but has a loss to a much "weaker" team, or has few or no wins
against teams ranked above them, if they get blown out by teams above
them, i consider them weaker.  (not the best example but i think you
get the point, close losses to good teams is more impressive than
blowing out bad teams and not being able to get any wins against a
quality opponent.)

I also try to read any recaps posted on RSD.  Not a good indicator of
anything, but if a few sources confirm the weather was horrible, 30Mph
of wind and some rain, I will place less stock in game played under
those conditions. Sure one team was better in the conditions than the
other, but I feel sometimes the weather can make a huge difference on
who comes out on top.  Sometimes the victor in a hurricane would get
beat handily by the same team under more "normal" conditions.

So Personally I spend a lot of time on making my rankings.  I hope
everyone does.  I think it is fun, and I hope other people enjoy
seeing the rankings each week.  I know I enjoy seeing what everyone
else thinks, and I would have really loved it if I had seen something
like this 2 years ago when I was still in school.

Hope this helped give an insight in to how hard it can be to make the
rankings.

-Pippin

Didn't UNT lose to an unranked (no votes from the panel?) UC San Diego
team last week?

On Feb 25, 1:08 pm, Bacon <sizilinba...@gmail.com> wrote:

No, North Texas got rocked by Luther at Mardi Gras in the prequarters
(16 over a 1 seed).  As did a few other good teams.  Luther played
exceptionally well.

On Feb 25, 10:35 am, cougarultim...@yahoo.com wrote:

I CAN believe that Doc speaks with no idea of recourse.

I CAN believe that I will always have reasons to hate Doc.

Brooks
UNT

On Feb 25, 12:29 pm, S <ehste...@gmail.com> wrote:

Make no mistakes, I don't think that UNT should be in the top 20. That
would just put our heads even further up our own asses, and thats the
reason we lost to Luther first game on Sunday at Mardi Gras.

However, it is obvious that there was very little effort put into the
NUMP. I'm more likely to believe that the top 20 was randomly drawn
from a Hat, than a true representation of what they have done so far
this year. Once again the UPA and/or the people connected with it have
failed; epically.

- Doc

Brooks, nobody cares how much you hate you me. If they say they do,
they're just saying it so you don't feel left out.

On Feb 25, 2:38 pm, cougarultim...@yahoo.com wrote:

Doctor, I hate you plenty.  Does that count for anything?

I guess Luther had nothing to do with it?

h

On Feb 25, 1:32 pm, cougarultim...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Make no mistakes, I don't think that UNT should be in the top 20.
That
 would just put our heads even further up our own asses, and thats the
 reason we lost to Luther first game on Sunday at Mardi Gras.

 - Doc

On Feb 25, 2:32 pm, cougarultim...@yahoo.com wrote:

At least they're trying...what are you doing to help?

--why?
i don't think the number of tournaments makes one team better or worse
than another.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---i agree....Wisconsin was like....3-6 at one point in the season and
are still ranked this week.
they are probably terrible.....since they beat up on most of those
other terrible teams down at Mardi Gras
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---why?
good teams can't beat bad teams?
the NUMP ain't no algarithm............
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---some names in college ultimate earned those names because they are
good......
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---"JUST" because they went to a tournament?
there probably aren't teams in the Top 20 JUST because they went to a
tournament....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---when we meet, we might fight.
so....be ready.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---used to be a team i added points for.....now...probably not.

 base anything on rankings...which no

---folks have reported that they use the NUMP to seed teams at
tournaments.
just what's been reported.

 it would be cool if NUMP did have a bit more

----huh?
the NUMPanel is perfectly organized.
i see below your suggestions....but that doesn't make the NUMP more or
less organized.
if the NUMP followed your suggestions...it would simply be organized
in a totally different way.
you're ignorant to what we're doing, if you think it's not organized.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

----why in the fuck would the NUMP designate a handful of tournaments
in each region that would count towards voting?
that....that's stupid.
it's the NATIONAL Ultimate Media Panel....not the Regional Ultimate
Tournament Rankings.

with your dumbassed idea.....only the teams that go to those
tournaments could be ranked....and how would you 'level' those few
tournaments into one rankings?
who cares if a team goes to an easy tournament?

the NUMP Members this year and each year in the past have been pretty
fucking qualified to judge teams based on who they've played, how much
they've played and where they've played.

stop insulting the effort and intelligence of the Panelists while
making these dumb suggestions.

you're a fool

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---the NUMP isn't going to be sanctioning tournaments.
the Ultimate Observers Association might one day.....but not the NUMP.

the NUMP considers them all....all teams...all tournaments...

---there might be very little effort on my part kicking your ass.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm more likely to believe that the top 20 was randomly drawn

---UPA??????
what are you writing about???
you are...just a moron, i guess.

With such a big head that must hurt. I think Luther used their
advantage of practicing indoors all winter...

Actually, it seems like Gerics puts a lot more effort than you do
before someone lets you loose on the keyboard. It's hard to argue
people's opinions. Also, the top 5 seem to be established strong
programs, hard to contend. I happen think the other 15 are also good
teams as well. Why not make your own poll, or even better just post
your own ranking system so we know exactly how the 'random' team
placing compares with your own. Plus we get to see another beloved
angry rant from the South Region's own Napoleon.