BROTHA'S INFILTRATING LAX........WHEN WILL THEY INFILTRATE ULTI
ultic...@live.com
could say "they sucked". They were all pretty much blow outs except
for the duke carolina game. Nothing all that exciting about watching
one group of white boys crushing another group of white boys. LUCKILY
the uva team had a little "color" to em which made watching their blow
out over johns hopkins very entertaining. And ironically these
"brotha's" are also bothers.....as in twins. not only were they jukin
the white boys outa their shoes but the seemed to score at will. What
the uva ulti team would give to have these guys cleat up for just the
playoffs in ohio.....???
Anyways, i dont think one can really catagorize lax as simply an
upperclass white boy sport. And i also dont see how having to buy a
little "equptment" is gonna keep lower class kids outa the sport. I'd
say the eqiptment costs of a football unie is more expensive than lax
equiptment and i've never seen a wilmington black ghetto youth have
any problems suiting up and playing football at a young age.
Dan
I think we can all agree that there are many great black
quarterblacks. And there have been many great black lacrosse players
(including the best player to ever pick up a stick, Jim Brown). There
have been a number of great black ultimate players. Lacrosse is a
sport with 100 years of tradition in its modern form, full varsity
status at high schools and colleges for as long, and with a hotbed in
and around Baltimore, Maryland, a city that is over 60% black.
Ultimate, well, we're just a bunch of ragamuffins without varsity
status, less than 40 years in existance, and play with a silly plastic
toy.
And yet....
While the history of these two sports is so different, and the nature
of the games could not be further apart (full contact, no contact,
hard india rubber ball, frisbee, etc...) on this point they are
exactly the same: Blacks remain woefully underrepresented in both
lacrosse and ultimate. Hmmmm.... could cultural and economic factors
be in play here? Do the sorts of things Toad drones on about ad naseum
(refs, dancing girls, "fags," whatever) represent any sort of
correlation/relevant story to explain the lack of minority
participation in both sports? No. Quite the opposite.
ultic...@live.com
> So your argument is that we need helmets and pads?
no, more that helmets and pads (and the profits gained from their
sales) is all there is to being able to market a sport. Nor do costs
of equiptment determine who plays what sport.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I think we can all agree that there are many great black
> quarterblacks.
not as many as great white ones. beside the o line it seems qb is the
last stronghold for whitey.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And there have been many great black lacrosse players
> (including the best player to ever pick up a stick, Jim Brown).
i believe there was an all black team/school that picked up the game
and dominated it in a few short years. Of which, one of those players
son stared for jhu a few years back. Just think if a black school
picked up ulti. I'd say theyde probably dominate college ultimate
just a quickly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There
> have been a number of great black ultimate players.
any that just completely dominate the game though?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Lacrosse is a
> sport with 100 years of tradition in its modern form, full varsity
> status at high schools and colleges for as long, and with a hotbed in
> and around Baltimore, Maryland, a city that is over 60% black.
> Ultimate, well, we're just a bunch of ragamuffins without varsity
> status, less than 40 years in existance, and play with a silly plastic
> toy.
playing sports with platic toy discs is no different that playing
sports with rubber toy balls. Its how the sport is played that
defines it. And ultimate is played informally even at the most formal
levels. You cant discount that fact.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> And yet....
>
> While the history of these two sports is so different, and the nature
> of the games could not be further apart (full contact, no contact,
> hard india rubber ball, frisbee, etc...)
etc what? i see many similarities myself......both white boy sports,
same approximate size field, same emphisis on being a fast runner and
being able to cut, same ball movement a zone O in ulti, same
approximate amount of goals scored in games, same abilities to pass
full field length passes, same type of hand eye coordination required
AND lax isnt that far ahead of ultimate in becoming an up and coming
marketable frindge college sport(if ultimate just gets its shit
together that is) Oh, and i believe that college club lax was one of
the other 5 or so sports that cstv was trying to feature last year in
conjunction with upa college nationals.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
on this point they are
> exactly the same: Blacks remain woefully underrepresented in both
> lacrosse and ultimate. Hmmmm.... could cultural and economic factors
> be in play here?
well, it aint cheap to travel to tons of tournies and there isnt any
progaming set up for interschioolastic comp. and thats probably
somewhat due to the informal nature of the sport.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Do the sorts of things Toad drones on about ad naseum
> (refs, dancing girls, "fags," whatever) represent any sort of
> correlation/relevant story to explain the lack of minority
> participation in both sports? No. Quite the opposite.
well, i aint really tryin to explain anything as much as i'm just
sayin that ANY college team would do themselves good to get a few
brothas on their team.
jacob
Toad, as I recall, you participated.
ultic...@live.com
> There was a thread on this topic last year that went over 100 posts.
> Toad, as I recall, you participated.
i guess its time to revisit the topic......especially in lieu of those
brotha brothers DOMINATING the uva jhu quarter finals. I'm telling
you guys that these next rounds of games will be well worth watching.
Dan
"i believe there was an all black team/school that picked up the game
and dominated it in a few short years. Of which, one of those
players
son stared for jhu a few years back. Just think if a black school
picked up ulti. I'd say theyde probably dominate college ultimate
just a quickly."
Morgan State. Team folded around 1980. There was a great new york
times story about the team some time in the late 80s/early 90s. They
were very, very good but not "dominant" if memory serves, not that
that matters.
ultic...@live.com
> quoting toad:
> "i believe there was an all black team/school that picked up the game
> and dominated it in a few short years. Of which, one of those
> players
> son stared for jhu a few years back. Just think if a black school
> picked up ulti. I'd say theyde probably dominate college ultimate
> just a quickly."
>
> Morgan State. Team folded around 1980.
when was it formed though? not long befor they won a championship.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a great new york
> times story about the team some time in the late 80s/early 90s.
they also dis a feature story on them a few years back on espn's OTL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
They
> were very, very good but not "dominant" if memory serves, not that
> that matters.
they won a championship......cant get much better than that. They
used to light up (physically) them white boys up too........and
brothas were a lot more pissed at whitey back then. Of course it
wasnt much different when the brothas started playing b-ball either.
AND it was probably a relitively short time until an all black team
won in that sport too. So.........i'd say that having a few brothas
on your team DOES IN FACT matter........if ya want to win that is.
Rich
Morgan State did not win an NCAA D1 lacrosse championship. Period.
As far as really good black players in lacrosse, the Brattons aren't
the first, or likely the last...even in games just between UVA and
Hopkins. The 2005 semifinal had both Benson Irwin and Kyle Harrison
starring for the Blue Jays and John Christmas starring for UVA. The
rate of influx of black players hasn't dramatically increased...you
just see them now on ESPN.
There's no magic here. If a black high school athlete decides to play
ultimate and becomes very good at it, he or she will be able to
continue doing so at the college and club level. The only real
difference is that an NCAA sport like lacrosse offers scholarships for
college, while ultimate does not. That shouldn't be excuse ultimate
hangs its hat on, however, as a most lacrosse players of all colors
come from upper middle class homes...scholarships are always nice, but
not a prerequisite for these kids attending college the way it might
be for some very poor athletes in other sports.
ultic...@live.com
>
> Morgan State did not win an NCAA D1 lacrosse championship. Period.
you sure? i know they won somthing
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> As far as really good black players in lacrosse, the Brattons aren't
> the first,
who cares......they are here now, so you might as well enjoy em while
you can, as their season ends next weekend
----------------------------------------------------------
>or likely the last.
duh.....kinda the theme of the thread
-----------------------------------------------------
..even in games just between UVA and
> Hopkins. The 2005 semifinal had both Benson Irwin and Kyle Harrison
> starring for the Blue Jays and John Christmas starring for UVA. The
> rate of influx of black players hasn't dramatically increased...you
> just see them now on ESPN.
i'm gonna speculate that SINCE WE ARE NOW SEEING THEM ON ESPN
(remember the top down approach) that we will be seeing waaaaay more
of em join lax in the future.......especially if there is a payoff for
doing so.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There's no magic here.
nope, just normal sports marketing and promotion. how these obvious
dynamics elude ultimate administrators is kinda mystical though?
------------------------------------------------------------
If a black high school athlete decides to play
> ultimate and becomes very good at it, he or she will be able to
> continue doing so at the college and club level.
but why would he when there is no real payoff (money wise or
glorywise). Aint no hot sistas checkin out a bunch of white boys
playing with a frisbee........and there sho aint no money in
it.......or college edjucation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only real
> difference is that an NCAA sport like lacrosse offers scholarships for
> college, while ultimate does not.
are you saying ulti has organized little leagues like lax, hs varsity
status like lax, pro leagueS like lax? face it, organizational-wise,
lax is leaving ulti further and further in the dust with each passing
DAY!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That shouldn't be excuse ultimate
> hangs its hat on,
well it is. them/you spirit zealots are full of excuses.
-----------------------------------------------------------
however, as a most lacrosse players of all colors
> come from upper middle class homes...scholarships are always nice, but
> not a prerequisite for these kids attending college the way it might
> be for some very poor athletes in other sports.
watch that shit change and quick. once those less fortunate start
seeing lax as a ticket out.
Slade
>
> > ultimate and becomes very good at it, he or she will be able to
> > continue doing so at the college and club level.
>
> but why would he when there is no real payoff (money wise or
> glorywise). Aint no hot sistas checkin out a bunch of white boys
> playing with a frisbee........and there sho aint no money in
> it.......or college edjucation.
Probably for the same reasons any other athlete would play ultimate.
Because it's fun and because you have a chance to excel athletically,
even if it's a sport without financial dividends. Or do you really
think black people only play sports for money or to get an education?
As for why african-americans are underrepresented in the ultimate
community... you play whatever sport your friends play (see Hockey:
Canada). As youth initiatives bring ultimate to more inner-city
schools, you'll see a corresponding increase in diversity.
ultic...@live.com
>
> Probably for the same reasons any other athlete would play ultimate.
> Because it's fun and because you have a chance to excel athletically,
lots a white girlz too eh? but not for sotg. and of course some guys
take it a lot more serious than others and make it "their life".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> even if it's a sport without financial dividends.
nothin unique to ultimate about that though. Tons of sports are
played in an organized fashion that are at a similar amature level as
ultimate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Or do you really
> think black people only play sports for money or to get an education?
if they are good enough and smart enough they do. dont think better
than average white athleats dont either. They'll usually make as far
as they can in the sport they are best at starting with football
basketball and baseball. From there the next teir of athleats would
probably fight, play soccer, lax. then you jump down further to
tennis, vollyball, golf (although look at tiger, he's a great example
of what i'm talkin about)
------------------------------------------------------------
>
> As for why african-americans are underrepresented in the ultimate
> community... you play whatever sport your friends play (see Hockey:
> Canada).
or ya play in integrated organized little leagues, and then try out
for middle school "integrated" public schools where teams compete
against neighboring middle schools.....and so on and so forth.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As youth initiatives bring ultimate to more inner-city
> schools, you'll see a corresponding increase in diversity.
yep
pinto
> On May 18, 7:47 pm, Rich <henry.johns...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Morgan State did not win an NCAA D1 lacrosse championship. Period.
>
> you sure? i know they won somthing
You are on the internets you know. You could... look it up... Looks
like they were a D-II team, and their main accomplishment was that
they once upset the #1 ranked D-II team. No mention of any
championships, or any D-I play.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_State_University_Lacrosse#Accomplishments
> > As far as really good black players in lacrosse, the Brattons aren't
> > the first,
>
> who cares......they are here now, so you might as well enjoy em while
> you can, as their season ends next weekend
The point of course is that they aren't "infiltrating," they've been
"infiltrated" at roughly the same level for some time now. John
Christmas was kicking ass and winning titles a few years back and you
just didn't know about it. Still, blacks are 12% of the overall
population, an overwhelming amount of the NFL, and relatively rare in
NCAA Lax.
~p
ultic...@live.com
Still, blacks are 12% of the overall
> population, an overwhelming amount of the NFL, and relatively rare in
> NCAA Lax.
but not as rare as they are in ulti. I guess my initial piont was
that its not just a "rich (white) kids" sport any moreso than ultimate
is, and buying equiptment for that sport isnt any more of a barrier
than buying equiptment for football.......AND that black athleats have
a style and athletisism that make sports better to watch.
AND, with lax getting more and more exposure as of late it is
inevitable that black youth might see it being played by blacks that
dominate, throw away the stereotype that it is just a "white boy
sport" (like ulti), and decide to play. If they dominate and can
benefit financially in anyway then its a win/win and even more
incentive for other black youth and somewhat of a snowball effect
occurs.
Dan
You make no sense and you're intellectually lazy. But you're amusing.
I did some digging, turns out Morgan State revived its team a few
years ago. They were 0-6 in 08, 3-10 in 07 and 0-7 in 06. I'm not sure
why we're discussing this, but i think it started with yet another of
your half-baked red-herrings.
jacob
"Half-baked red-herrings?" Now who's being intellectually lazy?
First of all, herring is usually pickled, smoked or fried, not baked.
Second of all, there is no hyphen between "red" and "herring."
Third of all, while Toad may have some ideas which are half-baked and
some which are red herrings, those which are red herrings are often
"fully baked," hence their success in attracting numerous replies.
(And just wait until the brothas infiltrate the world of amateur
editorials.)
in...@thisisultimate.com
baked herring recipe:
http://www.astray.com/recipes/?show=Baked%20herring
Hank & Co.
www.thisisultimate.com
buggle
nor do you spend much time developing your website, just promoting it.
why, i have yet to figure.
jacob
I'm 36, so I'm not sure if I am still "young."
I cook almost every day. Not to brag, but I made mint ice cream from
scratch this week using mint from my own back yard. In your face.
I said that herring is not "usually" baked. I don't think one recipe
for baked herring disproves this.
And yes, I am taking us both too seriously.
buggle
you move to the 'burbs? or do you mean the back patio?
Ellis
> watch that shit change and quick. once those less fortunate start
> seeing lax as a ticket out.
Are we still trying to push this idea of pro (or even collegiate)
sports as the best way for young black males to escape the inner
city?!?!
Yes, off topic (this has absolutely nothing to do with ultimate [0
college scholarships, 0 pro gigs]), but the argument that we should
promote ultimate (or lax, competitive eating, cup stacking, etc)
towards a professional business model because it can possibly assist
inner-city youth to escape poverty, is ridiculous.
I remember someone describing how modern pro-sports in the US is
basically slavery version 2.0
jacob...@gmail.com
That was Jamie Foxx in Any Given Sunday.
jacob
eating, cup stacking, etc) towards a professional business model
because it can possibly assist
inner-city youth to escape poverty, is ridiculous."
Can you please point out exactly where anyone on this thread has made
that argument? A result is not the same thing as a reason. Toad
cited this is a likely result of more commercial promotion, not as a
reason for such promotion. I think the reason Toad cited was simply
getting to watch better athletes play ultimate.
'I remember someone describing how modern pro-sports in the US is
basically slavery version 2.0"
What do you think actual slaves would have to say about this theory?